Princip,
Living in democratic and tolerant UK has apparently no impact on you. By reading some posts not convenient for you you would like to resort to good old censure. You seem to drop your mask and show your real face. I think you can learn from B92 to be more tolerant with dissenters.
you convienently ignore the fact that 1244 was formualted post conflict and as such that was the end of not the begining of some sort of international retribution. The fact that the NATO forces dropped more explosives in 78 days then during the 2nd World War is in itself far more disproportionate to what was happening in Serbia - do you suggest that the NATO nations deservedly should be partitioned???.
You attempt to show understanding but it is clear that you are only too aware of the lies that you personally wish to spread despite the truth being their for all.
For the record before this so-called humanitarian intervention [sic] that you suggest was stop a "unique" ethnic cleaning in europe. If this was so unique then I guess the (500,000) Serbs from Krajina can expect a very large amount of humble pie and and independent state very soon!
What's more is that the situation in Serbia's province was that of the state institutions quelling a seperatist insurgency which in the 2 years before NATO "The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed"
- quoted from Conor Foley (who worked for Amnesty International and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), in Kosovo)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
Now Joe if you wish to continue spreading propaganda that is fine but B92 moderators should really be aware of the comments you post.
In no way was the war in Kosovo unique in European history. Did the Serbs round up all the Albanians and put them in concentration camps like Buchenwald, or Auschwitz, or the Croatian and muslim run camp - Jasenovac.
Some facts. Serbia didn't expel the Albanians. It was an orchestrated campaign by the KLA to move people, probably for the TV cameras of the West , to portray a "mass ethnic cleansing".
100,000 or 200,000 houses destroyed? Who gave you that piece of propaganda? Do you still believe the rubbish put out by the KLA. Don't you get it, don't you understand the information war that took place during the war or are you still so naieve? As i remeber, the West said that 100,000 Albanians had been killed by Serbian forces as well, so why don't you quote that whilst you are at it?
As per usual B92 allow your to post comments which have no factual basis whatsoever, so add nothing to the discussion. When will the administration at B92 wake up and only allow some mature discussion to be placed on the boards instead of the propaganda perpetuated by the likes of Joe.
thanks for the compliment and your post - good insight regarding the attacks against NATO/KFOR and useful to remind everyone who has been continually attcking international troops and it's efforts at bringing reconciliation that is the true key to stability.
PB,
your spot on with the united front of the EU and they have made this absolutly clear to the ethnic-Albanian leadership via Solana this week. The Russians are only too aware of the EU stance and will push the compromise that is required since it is clear that Ahtisaari delevered what was a one-sided and pre-determined objective. I would not call it a proposal since it was the US objective all along and we all are only too aware of Ahtisaari's chairmanship of ICG to know what he would suggest. More over it is also worth reminding everyone that Ahtisaari himself admitted he had not even spent a seconds worth of consideration on any alternative in the talks other then what he himself had already deceided in the year that he lead the supposed "negotiations" [sic].
The US & a 'few' EU states tried to impose their will on Serbia with Rambouilet and ended up in a illegal war at least this time the dipolmatic channel of the UN is being utilised and it will not be Serbia who will give up on this route nor Russia for that matter and 1244 will not be replaced but fully implemented in any new resolution.
http://www.swans.com/library/art5/zig024.html
Brian,
It is very easy to explain why Kosovo or Kosova should get independence: Serbia in 1999 did something unique in the history of all Europeen countries. Serbia turned against a substantial part of its own population by trying to expule it (for few months she succeeded by cleansing about a million). The whole world could see on TV Kosovo burning....100 or 200,000 houses destroyed.
Brian, this was not small crime that everybody can forget. After what happened Serbia can not be trusted anymore. It is the same thing when a man mistreats, abuses his children or his wife.
I hope you get the picture.
A potential answer to Mr.Fried's desire to have an independence for Kosovo could be an Oriental proverb: "You may pronounce the word "khalva" (a mixture of honey and crushed nuts) million and million times, but you will never feel its sweet taste in your mouth".
I say to both sides:
1. adopt the minority protections of the Ahtissari plan, as well as its guarantees that Kosovo will not claim land outside of its borders,
2. compensate Serbia with some cash for investments made in Kosovo before 1999;
3. give northern Kosovo to Serbia.
And that's that. Although it will not make everyone happy, his should have been the imposed solution, since it is acceptable to many on both sides. I say just make the deal and get on with it and catch the train to Europe as soon as possible. The West needs to stop looking at partition as a dirty word when it can be used as part of a broader strategy and proposal for the resolution of the conflict.
Many commentators keep saying that the US and EU (or some of the countries in the EU such as the UK, Germany, etc,etc)will recognise Kosovo if there is no recognition at the UN.
One small problem with that point. The EU have stated that they will act as ONE, and will only recognise Kosovo's status which is determined by the UN. So if Kosovo declares unilateral independence, it will not be recognised by the EU or any EU member states.
Think about it. Do you think USA will give New mexico and the san diego region to mexico? just because mexicans are the majority of that region. or do you think that greece should give macedonia(the state) to the macedonians? Or Catolonia to be independent from Spain?
Get real! what right has USA or UN have to take someone's land from them. If 905 Albanians have a right to seperate from Serbia then 90% of Serbs in Republika Srpska have a right to seperate from Bosnia
I think that not even God knows how the American administration and President Bush are thinking.
The Serbs have been pushed out of parts of now Croatia, they have been pushed out of parts of Bosnia, they have been moved from Montenegro, and now US administration wants to push Serbs out of Serbia!
The US administration is blind and dumb to the fact that there are over ten million Serbs in Kosovo. They are there in heart, and mind and soul. Just because these Serbs do not trod the ground does not mean we are not there and I'm only talking about the living as there are also the dead that I have not counted.
Serbia has legal right to hold onto that 15% of its territory, which is its southern province of Kosovo and Metohija and I for one am getting bloody sick and tired of the stupidity of the US administration not to mention the intended corruption.
Ethnic Albanians who are in Kosovo legally can choose to live but not steal Serbian land, Serbian sovereign territory.
I see, its only the Kosovo Albanian's are threating as far some of the Serbs understand. What's you PM is saying? What's you president is saying that the whole region will be destabilized? What do those comments mean?
I hate reading some of the nonsense comments i.e. Princip, Kate, as well some from Albanian side(sorry can't remember the names), when they give comments its like they will be making the decision on behalf of Kosovars.
Please, give your opinion on the news that's provided by B92 but don't make judgments, cause at the end it won't be Serbia nor Kosovo that will have the final say. Like at the beginning of the 20 century, others tailored the shirt and they were wearing.
It would be very nice to see that B92 would remove any comment that has nor relation to the news provided. Can you guys (B92) do that?
Peace to Kosovo and Serbia too, make love and not war!
When you start off talking about “it” taking time, in reference to the imminent independence of Kosovo. Are we talking about the same time frame that it will take democracy to screw down the violence in Iraq since the over zealous intervention of the US with the EU following behind? As to your point about nobody threatening violence against the UN, EU or NATO, I suggest that you go back to May of 2002 when the KLA very much threatened the UN placed German tank division out of Augsburg, who were protecting the one of the Serb areas at the time. They in fact fired their tank guns on three occasions in response to direct fire from the KLA and killed two members in the process. The reason for these attacks against a UN protection force was because they had dissuaded the Serbs from reacting and the KLA got pretty angry at having nothing to show the media as open aggression against them by the bad Serbs.
Your final point “And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?” Kosovo has been a home to many legitimate peoples from the origins of Albania. In 1389, our Prince Lazar had a large quota of Albanians, who had settled in Kosovo many years before, fighting with him against the Ottoman Turks. These people are at home in Kosovo and we have no argument there, but do not ask what the Albanians will agree to as Kosovo has nothing to do with them or with the KLA and it never had anything to do with them, except for the use of exploitation. Ask them just how many of the genuine Kosovar Albanians did they kill because these good people would not take up arms against the Serbs. If you don’t find the answer then ask James Bisset, the former Canadian Ambassador to Belgrade, he can tell you.
History book my friend…. Buy them and read them and then come back and write again.
Kosovo is still an ugly little mess no matter who looks at it with longing eyes. Unemployment and hatred will make it a difficult place to live for many years, is it all worth the principle? Does anyone think either the Albanians or the Serbs will have success there once NATO leaves? Better to move the sacred monasteries to Serbia, complete with foundations and declare the rest as never never land, never thought of, never visited, by anybody, for at least 1000 years.
What happened in 1999 had already happened when Resolution 1244 was passed. I don't see how anybody can argue that Resolution 1244 should be repealed because of events that happened *BEFORE* it was adopted in the first place.
When Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999 the U.S. State Department was still saying that 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians were missing and feared dead. Today the same U.S. State Department says the Kosovo death toll was probably about 10,000 (which is still higher than the 5,500 people confirmed dead or listed as missing).
Since Resolution 1244 was passed we have discovered that the carnage of the 1999 Kosovo War was 90% less than we originally thought.
In addition, since Resolution 1244 was passed, the Kosovo-Albanians have ethnically cleansed the majority of Kosovo's non-Albanian minorities.
I just read yesterday that the UCK veterans are threatening to start another war if Kosovo isn't given independence. Faik Fazliu, head of the war veterans' organisation, said: "We will be obliged to act as KLA soldiers and to realise the last will of our nation's martyrs.".
Fazli Veliu, UCK leader from Macedonia, also said yesterday that he can raise 10,000 men to fight in Kosovo.
Let's recap the facts:
1) The death toll among Kosovo-Albanians turned out to be at least 90% less than we thought it was when Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999.
2) The Kosovo-Albanians have been repressing non-Albanian minorities for the last eight years.
3) The Kosovo-Albanians are threatening to start another war unless we give-in to their demands.
Forgive me, but I just can't see why we should reward the Kosovo-Albanians with Serbia's territory for deceiving us and behaving in an intolerant and billigerent manner.
The way of indipedence can not stop, allthought Serbia try to do it.The USA is our second fatther land,do nto worrie, this is reality,We must be right, and we mus think we are european,we must see to the future not in past, the past is past like a serbian and albanian.
From bela,students of journalism
Russia is the most important European country for the long term security and stability of the continent and any objective person with a grammar school education realizes this fact.Why in the world does anybody think that what 6 million Albanians want is more important than what Russia says?We Americans need Russia in more ways than I can count.The US is trillions of dollars in debt and much of that debt is held by China, Japan ,S.Korea and now even Russia.Both China and Russia have huge surpluses of dollars and NO DEBT.It is ironic that it is China who is largely subsidizing US military expenditures in Iraq,Afghanistan and Europe.The US has a huge budget deficit because it spends money it does not have and therefore needs to borrrow.The Chinese have over a TRILLION dollars in their reserves.Does anybody without an economics degree understand what would happen if China was to dump those dollars tomorrow?China has exceeded the US in the value of exports and is on track to exceed the US GNP very shortly.We Americans must STOP spending money we do not have.Bush will be gone very shortly and the first thing any new president is going to do is to start bringing our boys home from all corners of the world.
James,
Ur WRONG!
EU clearly said it wont recognise Kosovo without UN belssing. So there goes ur unilateral. As for events repeating themselves, I believe Ceku and Tachi are more like Milosevic now. So if anything it is much more likely that NATO will attack the KLA once they realise there is no independence and start attacking the UN/KFOR next.
This is to both side's of this on going dilemma. It's extremely obvious the serbian side will never give up there alledged rights of kosovo. On the other hand we have the pro albanian side we will never go back and they do have a solid arguement to some claim's. The west is pro K a the east pro serb every country is having a say in what is done except the serb's or the kosovars. It seem's to me the best result's would come from open dialogues without past resentments ,they will never heal.One major fact is the albanians are the majority in kosovo metahija. before the war and after the war and for the past 850 yrs when the slavs 1st arrived . the albanians should have the major say what happens in their lands . They must work closely with the surronding slav countries for the benefit of them all. there's no way kosovo can stay under serbia but there is also no way they can live without each other
Teni - "after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?"
One was already a country and one is a province - big difference! One was fine to amicably go their separate way, and the other is not.
Nobody thinks any avenue will be easy. No nation is going to throw their arms in the air (arms, not guns!) and say 'Okay, well we tried, now let's just hand over a piece of our land'.
It doesn't matter that it is not 'run' by the state. It has protectorate status and is owned by the state. There are examples all over of fully autonomous provinces - in this case it is just being 'managed' by the UN.
The international community has failed dismally by not initiating the return of displaced people, and not doing anything to prepare a path for the future as a tolerant integrated modern society.
But now it is up to them to finally uphold the law and carry out their duties.
"Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. (Olf, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 16:53)"
I find it really amusing the view some people have placed on the recent poll in regards to Kosovo. The reality of the poll is that only housewives and pensioners support going to WAR over Kosovo. That's a good thing! The majority of Serbs want to settle the issue peacefully. What everyone is leaving out is that 50% of the Serbian population would NOT trade Kosovo for membership in the EU! Which actually means Serbs do in fact care very deeply about Kosovo, more so then they care about the EU.
The reality is Olf, independence will not pass in full in the UNSC. So we have two options. Either we discuss partition in a peaceful and rational manner, or Kosovo declares independence unilaterally and we have partition based on violence and reality on the ground.
Many try to make a big deal out of the fact the reality on the ground is that Kosovo is "independent", when the truth is the reality on the ground actually reflects partition.
I'm still waiting for logical arguments against partition...
Just to remind some here about the 1244 resolution before it becomes another myth. This resolution speaks about the sovereignty of Yugoslavia over Kosovo who's recognized successor is Serbia (even though the resolution did not change to replace Yugoslavia with Serbia; hence Kosovo is special because it relates to the violent breakup of Yugoslavia) and a future determination of the status of Kosovo as an outcome of negotiations which should take into account the will of the people of Kosovo. It is hypocrisy to call on this resolution and to invoke only the parts that are suitable to one's claims, just as much as it is hypocritical to call on international law and order when just recently you broke every single international law and order that you could have.
If 1244 must be considered and implemented then the will of people of Kosovo should be considered just as equally, if not more, as the statement about the sovereignty of the Yugoslavia over Kosovo, as the last part of this resolution. It is about these two things that Russia's First Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Denisov was talking about in a recent article (that many here took it as an example of Russia's principled stance!), the right of the people to self-determination and sovereignty of states, and not some love about Serbia. And I believe it is about these two things that major powers at UN disagree (and of course their interests in the region). Thus, once a compromise about these two is found the resolution will pass and 1244 will be replaced with a new one.
Besides the above I don’t think there is much else that is going on currently in UN with regards to Kosovo. However, it is another matter that current Serb government is not being truthful to its citizens about this issue. They have chosen to stick their head on sand and don’t know anything else but "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", a slogan echoed blindly by many posters here daily.
The price that Serbia and its citizens are paying is very high. Just in 2006 there were about 2.65 billion dollars in trade between Russia and Serbia, with a huge deficit in favor of Russia. Major public state owned businesses were privatized and sold to Russian businesses below their value without proper biding and due processing. In the end of the day Kostunica and current Serb government feed their nation with such lies as "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", and common citizens go one by their daily lives with false impressions and hopes (according to some recent polls published on this site they don’t even care about Kosovo, and the time this Serb government devotes to this issue does not reflect the true interests of its citizens) while the prospect of prosperous lives and EU membership fade away with each day that the Kosovo issue remains unresolved.
As per how much Russia cares about Serbia one can guess by finding out about the fate of the Serb document containing the proposal for the solution of the Kosovo issue that Serb government gave to Russia before Putin's meeting with Bush. Serb government claimed that it was going to make it public after the meeting between Putin and Bush, but up to now there is no word about this at all. This speaks of true Russian intention and interests on this issue. And now we are left with Serb government calling for implementation of 1244 resolution, resolution this that they have invested so much during the last 8 years in obstructing its implementation. It is ridiculous and irresponsible behavior of a government that is suppose to represent the best interests of its citizens. Unfortunately, a paranoid Serbian government seems to care more for an impossible illusion of keeping Kosovo within Serbia rather than for the fate of their compatriots in Kosovo.
There is a saying that history repeats itself. All these events up to now are reminiscent of 1999, when after many wrangling back and forth west acted unilaterally and NATO bombed Serbia until it withdrew from Kosovo. This time I don’t believe there will be war or anything like that but in the end if this obstructionism by Russia and its cronies in the current Serb government continue US and EU will act unilaterally. West will unilaterally accept independent Kosovo.
US and Europe make smart move. Patiently pushing Russia's arguments like "Kosovo and Serbia need more talks" out of its hands. By putting the statement of Kosovo case as not precedent for any other case, the West creates a stepping stone. There is no Ahtisari plan and there is no independence in the resolution so it will be hard for Russia to reject or veto this. If Russia rejects this resolution than Russia would be definitely isolated about this issue. It would make Russia lose its credibility. This would have been fifth proposed resolution I think, and every new resolution had more and more concessions to Russia. If Russia accept the resolution, Albanians and Serbs will "talk" while world politician's will take a break about the Kosovo issue. Once the talks are over, the West will say NO MORE TALKS. New resolution will come based on Ahtisari plan. Russia would be already cornered and whatever it will do it won't be good for itself. Kosovo gets independence with or without UN resolution. Checkmate.
This resolution is not a win for Russia or Serbia. This is smart and patient move by the West to avoid stalemate in the winning position.
Of course that Serbia and Kosova(already separate)are going to negotiate the best way for Serbia to accept the Independence. Serbian politicians are not stupid, they know what USA and Alliance can do(1999 is not so distant) and that Kosova is lost forever since 1999. Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. However, if nothing suitable for Serbia to accept the independence can be negotiated after 120 days than Kosova will have the door open to declare the independence. By then USA and Russia will brush away their differences on issues far more important for them than Kosova status so the Russian veto will be avoided.
In a way, declaring the independence is the best way out for the Serbian politicians. Polls published some days ago told the Serbian politicians that they can breathe easily, since Kosova is the 5th priority. Polls told the politicians that even if Kosova becomes independent all they will loose is some coups of tea served from couple housewife’s and a chess match with some pensioners.
Upss I forgot international law. Never mind, I am not the only one that does not respect it.
Really dissappointed in you B92 guys. You do understand that you are supposed to be impartial "referees" in this discussions, don't you?
Otherwise you might as well publicise what attitudes and oppinnions on Kosovo are accepted and what not. Give us some clearer guidelines. For instance you should say: no comments advocating the independence of Kosovo and the reduction of Serbia's size will be posted, etc, etc.
The wonderful thing about these daily articles on Kosovo are that they have something for everyone.
First, we read that a new UN draft calls for further talks on Kosovo without setting an end-point of automatic independence. Team Kosovo points and says "aha! no independence!"
Then, despite what a general agreement says, the cookie-cutter US official says in the end that Kosovo will be independent, one way or the other. Team Kosova goes "aha! what more proof do you looney Serbs need?"
Then we get to the part where Kostunica rejects everything outright, telling the West to pound salt. Back to Team Kosovo.
Then we read about how a resolution on Kosovo needs to be rammed through the UN immediately, and that Russia "should cooperate", as if the first 847,000 this was said Russia said "nyet", the 847,001 time they finally say "Da".
No wonder everyone argues and has confidence their own Team is winning. I think four separate games are being simultaneouly played on one court!
This entire ordeal, is looking more and more like the chase scenes of every Benny Hill ending.
My dear ballkanian's
I just wanted to say that I have read lot of comments of all of you and I just wanted to say that we ballkanians do not know to resolve our problems, we know only to hate each other and to fight without sense, if we see back the wars in Yugoslavia we can understand very easy that there was no winner only destruction and in the end everybody in his house just without roof. My dear ballkanians, we will continue living like this unfortunately for many years and if you see nor albanians nor serbians can dicide how to resolve the problem, both part's are referring to USA or Russia and only showing the weakness of Ballkan society. Hopefully the Kosovo status will be resolved and after that hopefully ballkan countries will be part of Europian Union and only on that time you my dear ballkanians will understand how have been manipulated your society and yourself.
Mr. Fried still has egg on his face from previous statements which have been quashed by Russia. The US no longer holds the sway it did, they are a declining power more and more in debt every day.
I find it odd that the Serb parliament will debate a new "Kosova resolution" of their own on 7/24, when the UN will be passing a new resolution next week, by Mr. Ban's own words. Looks like maybe the US-EU & Russia made their own deal.
US & UK do not use such DEFINING words unless the moment has finally come.
Interesting fact, even b92 noted that this UN resolution has no clause for the Ahtissari's plan but Kostunica knows better that Kosova will be independent at the end of talks in this resolution, too!. Looks like, at the least, this is the end of resolution rewrites for EU US and this one is a "GO".
The US have over-asserted the necessity for independence - while they has been some climb-down so far, they have a way to go yet.
It would be more impressive if the talks had some international pressure towards cooperation. An autonomous Kosovo (under international guarantee) would give the required balance to the both sides. The next step would then be the resolution of the levels of involvement - Kosovo has much to gain by working with Serbia on economic development and transition towards EU membership.
The nonsense of nationalistic independence must be squashed - the interference of Albanian separatist elements in destroying good relations between Albanian and Serb Kosovans was a big factor in initiating the break up of Yugoslavia. It must not be seen to be rewarded.
Another Resolution, and another and another. You cannot meet the requirements of 1244 so let us just ignore it. By their own bungling of the situation the US has made the Russians look statesmen-like and credible in this matter! The US has made a mess of the situation, as they usually do in their foreign policy matters, and the EU looks so foolish as to allow themselves to be led by the ineptness of George Bush’s foreign policy advisors.
"Serbia truly wants a compromise and a sustainable solution for Kosovo and Metohija that would be acceptable to both sides," Tadić
OH IS THATS SO!!????
maybe he can start with sorry, we r 8yrs to late. when this resolution passes, it will confirm kosovo as a special case that doesnt set a precedent. which opens up the door after the negotiations if neither are happy kosova will proclaim independance with the eu and us acking, weather russia like it or not.
It seems to me that you guys are grasping at straws. No one said that this process of granting Kosovo independence would be quick and easy. It will take time, as do most things in international politics. But the end result is gonna be independence. As far as the US, Britain, Germany and France are on board (and most EU countries) it is a done deal. The Albanians will simply have to be patient as they have done until now.
And to Princip: no one has ever threatened violence against the UN or the EU or NATO. How you guys plan to control Kosovo IF it remains part of Serbia is beyond me. And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?
the point of the visit is to hold back until all avanues have been exhausted before declaring independance with out un mandate but with eu & us backing. russia is not budging on its stance, belgrade and pristina agree to disagree, for good for bad someone has to make the call as long as a 3rd world war doesnt begin. belgrade is being tutored by russia on its position and pristina by the west. a decision will be made, i believe kosovo will get independance, so they dont get a seat on the un and cant apply to the imf and world bank, there are other avenues, this is the balkans and there is a million and one ways to skin a cat. kosovo will have sponsors to provide for any short fall required for economic growth. russia wins for throwing its weight and lose kosovo for serbia, kosovo doesnt get a seat on un but gets independance and no precedent has been set, so nobodys got anything to worry about.
many things that you have said on B92 "would never happen" have happened while things that you say "will be" never are - this being the case what credibility is given to these new words of "wisdom" of yours that;
"Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosov"o & Metohija.
One wonders what " going your way" is but it is certain that it is the opposite of what you state!
It's mid-July and there is no Independence and no violence - the UN is not something that can be held hostage by threats of violence nor are its decisions. 1244 is the only resolution that is valid and we shall see a new focus on it's full implementaion in the coming months to ensure the return of all refugees! I would be better to have win-win and there is still a chnace that it may occur but the direction is definitly heading further and further away form any notion of independence - even the "supervised" notion has been blocked! I wonder what the "reason" for the new delay will be - mayeb the upcoming local elections for PISG that were cancelled last year in September - on that point the likes of Ceku et al no longer have mandates while I think about it seeing as they can only be elected for 4 years and must be re-elected - credibility is another issue indeed.
Stevo,
You are getting childish again, this time with the foreign lobby.
If it would be so simple than that than Russia - swimming in oil money - should give some money to Serbia to gain the overhand with those American politiciens. So your remark is just pure polemic.
To; b92
By editting one word on my second sentence it makes no sence now. that particular word was not addressed to anyone specifically but rather was in generaly speaking(in no way was offending).I have seen horrible words written by others and were not editted.
1244 allows serbia to offer as much help as is reuqired,said Princip. i know you talking about serbian military and police, but you will not see that movie ever again my dearPrincip.
I saw Fried talking on TV last night and he looked distinctly 'shifty'. His eyes were flashing left and right and left and right while he was talking. If he were a businessman, that is the kind of body language that would tell me that there is someone with either something to hide - like the truth - or that you can't trust them. Either way, I would not want to do business with someone acting in that manner.
If America gives Al Quaeda the keys to New York City, then I think Serbia would give up its land to please the whims of American politicians who accept large sums of cash from self-serving foreign lobbyists.
"Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me."
Ahmed Isufi
Ahmed my dear, if you lift up the words of a 3rd-degree US-diplomat as if it were God speaking... one can clearly see the level of "Dependence" among the K-albanians...
Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me.Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosova.
"adding that this needed to be achieved in a peaceful and stable way, primarily to protect the Serb community and heritage in Kosovo. "
- 1244 already provides the necessary mandate to ensure all this - Fried should focus on the full implementation of what the US signed upto already - no need for any new resolution to do exactly what he says nor for talks to continue! If NATO are unable to ensure security and peace I am certain that 1244 allows Serbia to offer as much ehlp as is required!
One wonders why one needs a resolution for talks to continue?
I guess the Chinese UN SC President will be putting that question across as will the Russians. In all reality it is looks like a bit of a desperate act by the US and a 'few' EU states who must be wondering how on earth they got into such a quandary - despite the Russians warning them a year ago!
I guess the technocrats should read H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau since there is a line that reflects their mood I am sure;
"Once or twice as I stood waiting there for things to accomplish themselves, I could not resist an impulse to laugh at my miserable quandary."
Any new resolution is meant to answer the status once and for all and if this is to be passed with no mention of independence then one can only assume in that respect that the Status is now finalised as upholding Serbia's intergrity and thus international law. This is clearly the case seeing as Ahtisaari's plan in its disregard for sovereignity of UN members states will never be passed.
So back to saying that because of 'violence and repression' Serbia is somehow less entitled to ownership of its own territory. If that was the case why did they draw up and agree to Resolution 1244 which protects sovereignty of the territory? Nothing has happened since then, apart from many incidents of violence and terror by the KLA. Should Serbia be punished for these?
Glad to hear that talks would not now have a predetermined end point (!) but any new resolution must include all aspects of 1244 and not hand over unreasonable powers to the Kosovo Albanian institutions, especially before talks have even taken place. The provincial government seems to have a very fair amount of power in its present interim form.
So back to saying that because of 'violence and repression' Serbia is somehow less entitled to ownership of its own territory. If that was the case why did they draw up and agree to Resolution 1244 which protects sovereignty of the territory? Nothing has happened since then, apart from many incidents of violence and terror by the KLA. Should Serbia be punished for these?
Glad to hear that talks would not now have a predetermined end point (!) but any new resolution must include all aspects of 1244 and not hand over unreasonable powers to the Kosovo Albanian institutions, especially before talks have even taken place. The provincial government seems to have a very fair amount of power in its present interim form.
One wonders why one needs a resolution for talks to continue?
I guess the Chinese UN SC President will be putting that question across as will the Russians. In all reality it is looks like a bit of a desperate act by the US and a 'few' EU states who must be wondering how on earth they got into such a quandary - despite the Russians warning them a year ago!
I guess the technocrats should read H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau since there is a line that reflects their mood I am sure;
"Once or twice as I stood waiting there for things to accomplish themselves, I could not resist an impulse to laugh at my miserable quandary."
Any new resolution is meant to answer the status once and for all and if this is to be passed with no mention of independence then one can only assume in that respect that the Status is now finalised as upholding Serbia's intergrity and thus international law. This is clearly the case seeing as Ahtisaari's plan in its disregard for sovereignity of UN members states will never be passed.
"adding that this needed to be achieved in a peaceful and stable way, primarily to protect the Serb community and heritage in Kosovo. "
- 1244 already provides the necessary mandate to ensure all this - Fried should focus on the full implementation of what the US signed upto already - no need for any new resolution to do exactly what he says nor for talks to continue! If NATO are unable to ensure security and peace I am certain that 1244 allows Serbia to offer as much ehlp as is required!
Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me.Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosova.
I saw Fried talking on TV last night and he looked distinctly 'shifty'. His eyes were flashing left and right and left and right while he was talking. If he were a businessman, that is the kind of body language that would tell me that there is someone with either something to hide - like the truth - or that you can't trust them. Either way, I would not want to do business with someone acting in that manner.
If America gives Al Quaeda the keys to New York City, then I think Serbia would give up its land to please the whims of American politicians who accept large sums of cash from self-serving foreign lobbyists.
To; b92
By editting one word on my second sentence it makes no sence now. that particular word was not addressed to anyone specifically but rather was in generaly speaking(in no way was offending).I have seen horrible words written by others and were not editted.
1244 allows serbia to offer as much help as is reuqired,said Princip. i know you talking about serbian military and police, but you will not see that movie ever again my dearPrincip.
"Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me."
Ahmed Isufi
Ahmed my dear, if you lift up the words of a 3rd-degree US-diplomat as if it were God speaking... one can clearly see the level of "Dependence" among the K-albanians...
Stevo,
You are getting childish again, this time with the foreign lobby.
If it would be so simple than that than Russia - swimming in oil money - should give some money to Serbia to gain the overhand with those American politiciens. So your remark is just pure polemic.
many things that you have said on B92 "would never happen" have happened while things that you say "will be" never are - this being the case what credibility is given to these new words of "wisdom" of yours that;
"Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosov"o & Metohija.
One wonders what " going your way" is but it is certain that it is the opposite of what you state!
It's mid-July and there is no Independence and no violence - the UN is not something that can be held hostage by threats of violence nor are its decisions. 1244 is the only resolution that is valid and we shall see a new focus on it's full implementaion in the coming months to ensure the return of all refugees! I would be better to have win-win and there is still a chnace that it may occur but the direction is definitly heading further and further away form any notion of independence - even the "supervised" notion has been blocked! I wonder what the "reason" for the new delay will be - mayeb the upcoming local elections for PISG that were cancelled last year in September - on that point the likes of Ceku et al no longer have mandates while I think about it seeing as they can only be elected for 4 years and must be re-elected - credibility is another issue indeed.
Mr. Fried still has egg on his face from previous statements which have been quashed by Russia. The US no longer holds the sway it did, they are a declining power more and more in debt every day.
Another Resolution, and another and another. You cannot meet the requirements of 1244 so let us just ignore it. By their own bungling of the situation the US has made the Russians look statesmen-like and credible in this matter! The US has made a mess of the situation, as they usually do in their foreign policy matters, and the EU looks so foolish as to allow themselves to be led by the ineptness of George Bush’s foreign policy advisors.
The US have over-asserted the necessity for independence - while they has been some climb-down so far, they have a way to go yet.
It would be more impressive if the talks had some international pressure towards cooperation. An autonomous Kosovo (under international guarantee) would give the required balance to the both sides. The next step would then be the resolution of the levels of involvement - Kosovo has much to gain by working with Serbia on economic development and transition towards EU membership.
The nonsense of nationalistic independence must be squashed - the interference of Albanian separatist elements in destroying good relations between Albanian and Serb Kosovans was a big factor in initiating the break up of Yugoslavia. It must not be seen to be rewarded.
It seems to me that you guys are grasping at straws. No one said that this process of granting Kosovo independence would be quick and easy. It will take time, as do most things in international politics. But the end result is gonna be independence. As far as the US, Britain, Germany and France are on board (and most EU countries) it is a done deal. The Albanians will simply have to be patient as they have done until now.
And to Princip: no one has ever threatened violence against the UN or the EU or NATO. How you guys plan to control Kosovo IF it remains part of Serbia is beyond me. And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?
"Serbia truly wants a compromise and a sustainable solution for Kosovo and Metohija that would be acceptable to both sides," Tadić
OH IS THATS SO!!????
maybe he can start with sorry, we r 8yrs to late. when this resolution passes, it will confirm kosovo as a special case that doesnt set a precedent. which opens up the door after the negotiations if neither are happy kosova will proclaim independance with the eu and us acking, weather russia like it or not.
I find it odd that the Serb parliament will debate a new "Kosova resolution" of their own on 7/24, when the UN will be passing a new resolution next week, by Mr. Ban's own words. Looks like maybe the US-EU & Russia made their own deal.
US & UK do not use such DEFINING words unless the moment has finally come.
Interesting fact, even b92 noted that this UN resolution has no clause for the Ahtissari's plan but Kostunica knows better that Kosova will be independent at the end of talks in this resolution, too!. Looks like, at the least, this is the end of resolution rewrites for EU US and this one is a "GO".
the point of the visit is to hold back until all avanues have been exhausted before declaring independance with out un mandate but with eu & us backing. russia is not budging on its stance, belgrade and pristina agree to disagree, for good for bad someone has to make the call as long as a 3rd world war doesnt begin. belgrade is being tutored by russia on its position and pristina by the west. a decision will be made, i believe kosovo will get independance, so they dont get a seat on the un and cant apply to the imf and world bank, there are other avenues, this is the balkans and there is a million and one ways to skin a cat. kosovo will have sponsors to provide for any short fall required for economic growth. russia wins for throwing its weight and lose kosovo for serbia, kosovo doesnt get a seat on un but gets independance and no precedent has been set, so nobodys got anything to worry about.
The wonderful thing about these daily articles on Kosovo are that they have something for everyone.
First, we read that a new UN draft calls for further talks on Kosovo without setting an end-point of automatic independence. Team Kosovo points and says "aha! no independence!"
Then, despite what a general agreement says, the cookie-cutter US official says in the end that Kosovo will be independent, one way or the other. Team Kosova goes "aha! what more proof do you looney Serbs need?"
Then we get to the part where Kostunica rejects everything outright, telling the West to pound salt. Back to Team Kosovo.
Then we read about how a resolution on Kosovo needs to be rammed through the UN immediately, and that Russia "should cooperate", as if the first 847,000 this was said Russia said "nyet", the 847,001 time they finally say "Da".
No wonder everyone argues and has confidence their own Team is winning. I think four separate games are being simultaneouly played on one court!
This entire ordeal, is looking more and more like the chase scenes of every Benny Hill ending.
My dear ballkanian's
I just wanted to say that I have read lot of comments of all of you and I just wanted to say that we ballkanians do not know to resolve our problems, we know only to hate each other and to fight without sense, if we see back the wars in Yugoslavia we can understand very easy that there was no winner only destruction and in the end everybody in his house just without roof. My dear ballkanians, we will continue living like this unfortunately for many years and if you see nor albanians nor serbians can dicide how to resolve the problem, both part's are referring to USA or Russia and only showing the weakness of Ballkan society. Hopefully the Kosovo status will be resolved and after that hopefully ballkan countries will be part of Europian Union and only on that time you my dear ballkanians will understand how have been manipulated your society and yourself.
Really dissappointed in you B92 guys. You do understand that you are supposed to be impartial "referees" in this discussions, don't you?
Otherwise you might as well publicise what attitudes and oppinnions on Kosovo are accepted and what not. Give us some clearer guidelines. For instance you should say: no comments advocating the independence of Kosovo and the reduction of Serbia's size will be posted, etc, etc.
Of course that Serbia and Kosova(already separate)are going to negotiate the best way for Serbia to accept the Independence. Serbian politicians are not stupid, they know what USA and Alliance can do(1999 is not so distant) and that Kosova is lost forever since 1999. Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. However, if nothing suitable for Serbia to accept the independence can be negotiated after 120 days than Kosova will have the door open to declare the independence. By then USA and Russia will brush away their differences on issues far more important for them than Kosova status so the Russian veto will be avoided.
In a way, declaring the independence is the best way out for the Serbian politicians. Polls published some days ago told the Serbian politicians that they can breathe easily, since Kosova is the 5th priority. Polls told the politicians that even if Kosova becomes independent all they will loose is some coups of tea served from couple housewife’s and a chess match with some pensioners.
Upss I forgot international law. Never mind, I am not the only one that does not respect it.
US and Europe make smart move. Patiently pushing Russia's arguments like "Kosovo and Serbia need more talks" out of its hands. By putting the statement of Kosovo case as not precedent for any other case, the West creates a stepping stone. There is no Ahtisari plan and there is no independence in the resolution so it will be hard for Russia to reject or veto this. If Russia rejects this resolution than Russia would be definitely isolated about this issue. It would make Russia lose its credibility. This would have been fifth proposed resolution I think, and every new resolution had more and more concessions to Russia. If Russia accept the resolution, Albanians and Serbs will "talk" while world politician's will take a break about the Kosovo issue. Once the talks are over, the West will say NO MORE TALKS. New resolution will come based on Ahtisari plan. Russia would be already cornered and whatever it will do it won't be good for itself. Kosovo gets independence with or without UN resolution. Checkmate.
This resolution is not a win for Russia or Serbia. This is smart and patient move by the West to avoid stalemate in the winning position.
Just to remind some here about the 1244 resolution before it becomes another myth. This resolution speaks about the sovereignty of Yugoslavia over Kosovo who's recognized successor is Serbia (even though the resolution did not change to replace Yugoslavia with Serbia; hence Kosovo is special because it relates to the violent breakup of Yugoslavia) and a future determination of the status of Kosovo as an outcome of negotiations which should take into account the will of the people of Kosovo. It is hypocrisy to call on this resolution and to invoke only the parts that are suitable to one's claims, just as much as it is hypocritical to call on international law and order when just recently you broke every single international law and order that you could have.
If 1244 must be considered and implemented then the will of people of Kosovo should be considered just as equally, if not more, as the statement about the sovereignty of the Yugoslavia over Kosovo, as the last part of this resolution. It is about these two things that Russia's First Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Denisov was talking about in a recent article (that many here took it as an example of Russia's principled stance!), the right of the people to self-determination and sovereignty of states, and not some love about Serbia. And I believe it is about these two things that major powers at UN disagree (and of course their interests in the region). Thus, once a compromise about these two is found the resolution will pass and 1244 will be replaced with a new one.
Besides the above I don’t think there is much else that is going on currently in UN with regards to Kosovo. However, it is another matter that current Serb government is not being truthful to its citizens about this issue. They have chosen to stick their head on sand and don’t know anything else but "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", a slogan echoed blindly by many posters here daily.
The price that Serbia and its citizens are paying is very high. Just in 2006 there were about 2.65 billion dollars in trade between Russia and Serbia, with a huge deficit in favor of Russia. Major public state owned businesses were privatized and sold to Russian businesses below their value without proper biding and due processing. In the end of the day Kostunica and current Serb government feed their nation with such lies as "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", and common citizens go one by their daily lives with false impressions and hopes (according to some recent polls published on this site they don’t even care about Kosovo, and the time this Serb government devotes to this issue does not reflect the true interests of its citizens) while the prospect of prosperous lives and EU membership fade away with each day that the Kosovo issue remains unresolved.
As per how much Russia cares about Serbia one can guess by finding out about the fate of the Serb document containing the proposal for the solution of the Kosovo issue that Serb government gave to Russia before Putin's meeting with Bush. Serb government claimed that it was going to make it public after the meeting between Putin and Bush, but up to now there is no word about this at all. This speaks of true Russian intention and interests on this issue. And now we are left with Serb government calling for implementation of 1244 resolution, resolution this that they have invested so much during the last 8 years in obstructing its implementation. It is ridiculous and irresponsible behavior of a government that is suppose to represent the best interests of its citizens. Unfortunately, a paranoid Serbian government seems to care more for an impossible illusion of keeping Kosovo within Serbia rather than for the fate of their compatriots in Kosovo.
There is a saying that history repeats itself. All these events up to now are reminiscent of 1999, when after many wrangling back and forth west acted unilaterally and NATO bombed Serbia until it withdrew from Kosovo. This time I don’t believe there will be war or anything like that but in the end if this obstructionism by Russia and its cronies in the current Serb government continue US and EU will act unilaterally. West will unilaterally accept independent Kosovo.
Teni - "after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?"
One was already a country and one is a province - big difference! One was fine to amicably go their separate way, and the other is not.
Nobody thinks any avenue will be easy. No nation is going to throw their arms in the air (arms, not guns!) and say 'Okay, well we tried, now let's just hand over a piece of our land'.
It doesn't matter that it is not 'run' by the state. It has protectorate status and is owned by the state. There are examples all over of fully autonomous provinces - in this case it is just being 'managed' by the UN.
The international community has failed dismally by not initiating the return of displaced people, and not doing anything to prepare a path for the future as a tolerant integrated modern society.
But now it is up to them to finally uphold the law and carry out their duties.
"Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. (Olf, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 16:53)"
I find it really amusing the view some people have placed on the recent poll in regards to Kosovo. The reality of the poll is that only housewives and pensioners support going to WAR over Kosovo. That's a good thing! The majority of Serbs want to settle the issue peacefully. What everyone is leaving out is that 50% of the Serbian population would NOT trade Kosovo for membership in the EU! Which actually means Serbs do in fact care very deeply about Kosovo, more so then they care about the EU.
The reality is Olf, independence will not pass in full in the UNSC. So we have two options. Either we discuss partition in a peaceful and rational manner, or Kosovo declares independence unilaterally and we have partition based on violence and reality on the ground.
Many try to make a big deal out of the fact the reality on the ground is that Kosovo is "independent", when the truth is the reality on the ground actually reflects partition.
I'm still waiting for logical arguments against partition...
This is to both side's of this on going dilemma. It's extremely obvious the serbian side will never give up there alledged rights of kosovo. On the other hand we have the pro albanian side we will never go back and they do have a solid arguement to some claim's. The west is pro K a the east pro serb every country is having a say in what is done except the serb's or the kosovars. It seem's to me the best result's would come from open dialogues without past resentments ,they will never heal.One major fact is the albanians are the majority in kosovo metahija. before the war and after the war and for the past 850 yrs when the slavs 1st arrived . the albanians should have the major say what happens in their lands . They must work closely with the surronding slav countries for the benefit of them all. there's no way kosovo can stay under serbia but there is also no way they can live without each other
Russia is the most important European country for the long term security and stability of the continent and any objective person with a grammar school education realizes this fact.Why in the world does anybody think that what 6 million Albanians want is more important than what Russia says?We Americans need Russia in more ways than I can count.The US is trillions of dollars in debt and much of that debt is held by China, Japan ,S.Korea and now even Russia.Both China and Russia have huge surpluses of dollars and NO DEBT.It is ironic that it is China who is largely subsidizing US military expenditures in Iraq,Afghanistan and Europe.The US has a huge budget deficit because it spends money it does not have and therefore needs to borrrow.The Chinese have over a TRILLION dollars in their reserves.Does anybody without an economics degree understand what would happen if China was to dump those dollars tomorrow?China has exceeded the US in the value of exports and is on track to exceed the US GNP very shortly.We Americans must STOP spending money we do not have.Bush will be gone very shortly and the first thing any new president is going to do is to start bringing our boys home from all corners of the world.
James,
Ur WRONG!
EU clearly said it wont recognise Kosovo without UN belssing. So there goes ur unilateral. As for events repeating themselves, I believe Ceku and Tachi are more like Milosevic now. So if anything it is much more likely that NATO will attack the KLA once they realise there is no independence and start attacking the UN/KFOR next.
What happened in 1999 had already happened when Resolution 1244 was passed. I don't see how anybody can argue that Resolution 1244 should be repealed because of events that happened *BEFORE* it was adopted in the first place.
When Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999 the U.S. State Department was still saying that 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians were missing and feared dead. Today the same U.S. State Department says the Kosovo death toll was probably about 10,000 (which is still higher than the 5,500 people confirmed dead or listed as missing).
Since Resolution 1244 was passed we have discovered that the carnage of the 1999 Kosovo War was 90% less than we originally thought.
In addition, since Resolution 1244 was passed, the Kosovo-Albanians have ethnically cleansed the majority of Kosovo's non-Albanian minorities.
I just read yesterday that the UCK veterans are threatening to start another war if Kosovo isn't given independence. Faik Fazliu, head of the war veterans' organisation, said: "We will be obliged to act as KLA soldiers and to realise the last will of our nation's martyrs.".
Fazli Veliu, UCK leader from Macedonia, also said yesterday that he can raise 10,000 men to fight in Kosovo.
Let's recap the facts:
1) The death toll among Kosovo-Albanians turned out to be at least 90% less than we thought it was when Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999.
2) The Kosovo-Albanians have been repressing non-Albanian minorities for the last eight years.
3) The Kosovo-Albanians are threatening to start another war unless we give-in to their demands.
Forgive me, but I just can't see why we should reward the Kosovo-Albanians with Serbia's territory for deceiving us and behaving in an intolerant and billigerent manner.
The way of indipedence can not stop, allthought Serbia try to do it.The USA is our second fatther land,do nto worrie, this is reality,We must be right, and we mus think we are european,we must see to the future not in past, the past is past like a serbian and albanian.
From bela,students of journalism
Kosovo is still an ugly little mess no matter who looks at it with longing eyes. Unemployment and hatred will make it a difficult place to live for many years, is it all worth the principle? Does anyone think either the Albanians or the Serbs will have success there once NATO leaves? Better to move the sacred monasteries to Serbia, complete with foundations and declare the rest as never never land, never thought of, never visited, by anybody, for at least 1000 years.
When you start off talking about “it” taking time, in reference to the imminent independence of Kosovo. Are we talking about the same time frame that it will take democracy to screw down the violence in Iraq since the over zealous intervention of the US with the EU following behind? As to your point about nobody threatening violence against the UN, EU or NATO, I suggest that you go back to May of 2002 when the KLA very much threatened the UN placed German tank division out of Augsburg, who were protecting the one of the Serb areas at the time. They in fact fired their tank guns on three occasions in response to direct fire from the KLA and killed two members in the process. The reason for these attacks against a UN protection force was because they had dissuaded the Serbs from reacting and the KLA got pretty angry at having nothing to show the media as open aggression against them by the bad Serbs.
Your final point “And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?” Kosovo has been a home to many legitimate peoples from the origins of Albania. In 1389, our Prince Lazar had a large quota of Albanians, who had settled in Kosovo many years before, fighting with him against the Ottoman Turks. These people are at home in Kosovo and we have no argument there, but do not ask what the Albanians will agree to as Kosovo has nothing to do with them or with the KLA and it never had anything to do with them, except for the use of exploitation. Ask them just how many of the genuine Kosovar Albanians did they kill because these good people would not take up arms against the Serbs. If you don’t find the answer then ask James Bisset, the former Canadian Ambassador to Belgrade, he can tell you.
History book my friend…. Buy them and read them and then come back and write again.
I see, its only the Kosovo Albanian's are threating as far some of the Serbs understand. What's you PM is saying? What's you president is saying that the whole region will be destabilized? What do those comments mean?
I hate reading some of the nonsense comments i.e. Princip, Kate, as well some from Albanian side(sorry can't remember the names), when they give comments its like they will be making the decision on behalf of Kosovars.
Please, give your opinion on the news that's provided by B92 but don't make judgments, cause at the end it won't be Serbia nor Kosovo that will have the final say. Like at the beginning of the 20 century, others tailored the shirt and they were wearing.
It would be very nice to see that B92 would remove any comment that has nor relation to the news provided. Can you guys (B92) do that?
Peace to Kosovo and Serbia too, make love and not war!
I think that not even God knows how the American administration and President Bush are thinking.
The Serbs have been pushed out of parts of now Croatia, they have been pushed out of parts of Bosnia, they have been moved from Montenegro, and now US administration wants to push Serbs out of Serbia!
The US administration is blind and dumb to the fact that there are over ten million Serbs in Kosovo. They are there in heart, and mind and soul. Just because these Serbs do not trod the ground does not mean we are not there and I'm only talking about the living as there are also the dead that I have not counted.
Serbia has legal right to hold onto that 15% of its territory, which is its southern province of Kosovo and Metohija and I for one am getting bloody sick and tired of the stupidity of the US administration not to mention the intended corruption.
Ethnic Albanians who are in Kosovo legally can choose to live but not steal Serbian land, Serbian sovereign territory.
Think about it. Do you think USA will give New mexico and the san diego region to mexico? just because mexicans are the majority of that region. or do you think that greece should give macedonia(the state) to the macedonians? Or Catolonia to be independent from Spain?
Get real! what right has USA or UN have to take someone's land from them. If 905 Albanians have a right to seperate from Serbia then 90% of Serbs in Republika Srpska have a right to seperate from Bosnia
I say to both sides:
1. adopt the minority protections of the Ahtissari plan, as well as its guarantees that Kosovo will not claim land outside of its borders,
2. compensate Serbia with some cash for investments made in Kosovo before 1999;
3. give northern Kosovo to Serbia.
And that's that. Although it will not make everyone happy, his should have been the imposed solution, since it is acceptable to many on both sides. I say just make the deal and get on with it and catch the train to Europe as soon as possible. The West needs to stop looking at partition as a dirty word when it can be used as part of a broader strategy and proposal for the resolution of the conflict.
Many commentators keep saying that the US and EU (or some of the countries in the EU such as the UK, Germany, etc,etc)will recognise Kosovo if there is no recognition at the UN.
One small problem with that point. The EU have stated that they will act as ONE, and will only recognise Kosovo's status which is determined by the UN. So if Kosovo declares unilateral independence, it will not be recognised by the EU or any EU member states.
A potential answer to Mr.Fried's desire to have an independence for Kosovo could be an Oriental proverb: "You may pronounce the word "khalva" (a mixture of honey and crushed nuts) million and million times, but you will never feel its sweet taste in your mouth".
thanks for the compliment and your post - good insight regarding the attacks against NATO/KFOR and useful to remind everyone who has been continually attcking international troops and it's efforts at bringing reconciliation that is the true key to stability.
PB,
your spot on with the united front of the EU and they have made this absolutly clear to the ethnic-Albanian leadership via Solana this week. The Russians are only too aware of the EU stance and will push the compromise that is required since it is clear that Ahtisaari delevered what was a one-sided and pre-determined objective. I would not call it a proposal since it was the US objective all along and we all are only too aware of Ahtisaari's chairmanship of ICG to know what he would suggest. More over it is also worth reminding everyone that Ahtisaari himself admitted he had not even spent a seconds worth of consideration on any alternative in the talks other then what he himself had already deceided in the year that he lead the supposed "negotiations" [sic].
The US & a 'few' EU states tried to impose their will on Serbia with Rambouilet and ended up in a illegal war at least this time the dipolmatic channel of the UN is being utilised and it will not be Serbia who will give up on this route nor Russia for that matter and 1244 will not be replaced but fully implemented in any new resolution.
http://www.swans.com/library/art5/zig024.html
Brian,
It is very easy to explain why Kosovo or Kosova should get independence: Serbia in 1999 did something unique in the history of all Europeen countries. Serbia turned against a substantial part of its own population by trying to expule it (for few months she succeeded by cleansing about a million). The whole world could see on TV Kosovo burning....100 or 200,000 houses destroyed.
Brian, this was not small crime that everybody can forget. After what happened Serbia can not be trusted anymore. It is the same thing when a man mistreats, abuses his children or his wife.
I hope you get the picture.
In no way was the war in Kosovo unique in European history. Did the Serbs round up all the Albanians and put them in concentration camps like Buchenwald, or Auschwitz, or the Croatian and muslim run camp - Jasenovac.
Some facts. Serbia didn't expel the Albanians. It was an orchestrated campaign by the KLA to move people, probably for the TV cameras of the West , to portray a "mass ethnic cleansing".
100,000 or 200,000 houses destroyed? Who gave you that piece of propaganda? Do you still believe the rubbish put out by the KLA. Don't you get it, don't you understand the information war that took place during the war or are you still so naieve? As i remeber, the West said that 100,000 Albanians had been killed by Serbian forces as well, so why don't you quote that whilst you are at it?
As per usual B92 allow your to post comments which have no factual basis whatsoever, so add nothing to the discussion. When will the administration at B92 wake up and only allow some mature discussion to be placed on the boards instead of the propaganda perpetuated by the likes of Joe.
you convienently ignore the fact that 1244 was formualted post conflict and as such that was the end of not the begining of some sort of international retribution. The fact that the NATO forces dropped more explosives in 78 days then during the 2nd World War is in itself far more disproportionate to what was happening in Serbia - do you suggest that the NATO nations deservedly should be partitioned???.
You attempt to show understanding but it is clear that you are only too aware of the lies that you personally wish to spread despite the truth being their for all.
For the record before this so-called humanitarian intervention [sic] that you suggest was stop a "unique" ethnic cleaning in europe. If this was so unique then I guess the (500,000) Serbs from Krajina can expect a very large amount of humble pie and and independent state very soon!
What's more is that the situation in Serbia's province was that of the state institutions quelling a seperatist insurgency which in the 2 years before NATO "The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed"
- quoted from Conor Foley (who worked for Amnesty International and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), in Kosovo)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
Now Joe if you wish to continue spreading propaganda that is fine but B92 moderators should really be aware of the comments you post.
Princip,
Living in democratic and tolerant UK has apparently no impact on you. By reading some posts not convenient for you you would like to resort to good old censure. You seem to drop your mask and show your real face. I think you can learn from B92 to be more tolerant with dissenters.
So back to saying that because of 'violence and repression' Serbia is somehow less entitled to ownership of its own territory. If that was the case why did they draw up and agree to Resolution 1244 which protects sovereignty of the territory? Nothing has happened since then, apart from many incidents of violence and terror by the KLA. Should Serbia be punished for these?
Glad to hear that talks would not now have a predetermined end point (!) but any new resolution must include all aspects of 1244 and not hand over unreasonable powers to the Kosovo Albanian institutions, especially before talks have even taken place. The provincial government seems to have a very fair amount of power in its present interim form.
One wonders why one needs a resolution for talks to continue?
I guess the Chinese UN SC President will be putting that question across as will the Russians. In all reality it is looks like a bit of a desperate act by the US and a 'few' EU states who must be wondering how on earth they got into such a quandary - despite the Russians warning them a year ago!
I guess the technocrats should read H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau since there is a line that reflects their mood I am sure;
"Once or twice as I stood waiting there for things to accomplish themselves, I could not resist an impulse to laugh at my miserable quandary."
Any new resolution is meant to answer the status once and for all and if this is to be passed with no mention of independence then one can only assume in that respect that the Status is now finalised as upholding Serbia's intergrity and thus international law. This is clearly the case seeing as Ahtisaari's plan in its disregard for sovereignity of UN members states will never be passed.
"adding that this needed to be achieved in a peaceful and stable way, primarily to protect the Serb community and heritage in Kosovo. "
- 1244 already provides the necessary mandate to ensure all this - Fried should focus on the full implementation of what the US signed upto already - no need for any new resolution to do exactly what he says nor for talks to continue! If NATO are unable to ensure security and peace I am certain that 1244 allows Serbia to offer as much ehlp as is required!
Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me.Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosova.
I saw Fried talking on TV last night and he looked distinctly 'shifty'. His eyes were flashing left and right and left and right while he was talking. If he were a businessman, that is the kind of body language that would tell me that there is someone with either something to hide - like the truth - or that you can't trust them. Either way, I would not want to do business with someone acting in that manner.
If America gives Al Quaeda the keys to New York City, then I think Serbia would give up its land to please the whims of American politicians who accept large sums of cash from self-serving foreign lobbyists.
To; b92
By editting one word on my second sentence it makes no sence now. that particular word was not addressed to anyone specifically but rather was in generaly speaking(in no way was offending).I have seen horrible words written by others and were not editted.
1244 allows serbia to offer as much help as is reuqired,said Princip. i know you talking about serbian military and police, but you will not see that movie ever again my dearPrincip.
"Once more Mr. Fried made it very clear to serbia that one way or the other Independence will be. How anybody be can say otherwise, is beyond me."
Ahmed Isufi
Ahmed my dear, if you lift up the words of a 3rd-degree US-diplomat as if it were God speaking... one can clearly see the level of "Dependence" among the K-albanians...
Stevo,
You are getting childish again, this time with the foreign lobby.
If it would be so simple than that than Russia - swimming in oil money - should give some money to Serbia to gain the overhand with those American politiciens. So your remark is just pure polemic.
many things that you have said on B92 "would never happen" have happened while things that you say "will be" never are - this being the case what credibility is given to these new words of "wisdom" of yours that;
"Thing are going slowly but surely my way.I saw the grim on Koshtunica,s face when Mr. Fried told him about Independent kosov"o & Metohija.
One wonders what " going your way" is but it is certain that it is the opposite of what you state!
It's mid-July and there is no Independence and no violence - the UN is not something that can be held hostage by threats of violence nor are its decisions. 1244 is the only resolution that is valid and we shall see a new focus on it's full implementaion in the coming months to ensure the return of all refugees! I would be better to have win-win and there is still a chnace that it may occur but the direction is definitly heading further and further away form any notion of independence - even the "supervised" notion has been blocked! I wonder what the "reason" for the new delay will be - mayeb the upcoming local elections for PISG that were cancelled last year in September - on that point the likes of Ceku et al no longer have mandates while I think about it seeing as they can only be elected for 4 years and must be re-elected - credibility is another issue indeed.
Mr. Fried still has egg on his face from previous statements which have been quashed by Russia. The US no longer holds the sway it did, they are a declining power more and more in debt every day.
Another Resolution, and another and another. You cannot meet the requirements of 1244 so let us just ignore it. By their own bungling of the situation the US has made the Russians look statesmen-like and credible in this matter! The US has made a mess of the situation, as they usually do in their foreign policy matters, and the EU looks so foolish as to allow themselves to be led by the ineptness of George Bush’s foreign policy advisors.
The US have over-asserted the necessity for independence - while they has been some climb-down so far, they have a way to go yet.
It would be more impressive if the talks had some international pressure towards cooperation. An autonomous Kosovo (under international guarantee) would give the required balance to the both sides. The next step would then be the resolution of the levels of involvement - Kosovo has much to gain by working with Serbia on economic development and transition towards EU membership.
The nonsense of nationalistic independence must be squashed - the interference of Albanian separatist elements in destroying good relations between Albanian and Serb Kosovans was a big factor in initiating the break up of Yugoslavia. It must not be seen to be rewarded.
It seems to me that you guys are grasping at straws. No one said that this process of granting Kosovo independence would be quick and easy. It will take time, as do most things in international politics. But the end result is gonna be independence. As far as the US, Britain, Germany and France are on board (and most EU countries) it is a done deal. The Albanians will simply have to be patient as they have done until now.
And to Princip: no one has ever threatened violence against the UN or the EU or NATO. How you guys plan to control Kosovo IF it remains part of Serbia is beyond me. And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?
"Serbia truly wants a compromise and a sustainable solution for Kosovo and Metohija that would be acceptable to both sides," Tadić
OH IS THATS SO!!????
maybe he can start with sorry, we r 8yrs to late. when this resolution passes, it will confirm kosovo as a special case that doesnt set a precedent. which opens up the door after the negotiations if neither are happy kosova will proclaim independance with the eu and us acking, weather russia like it or not.
I find it odd that the Serb parliament will debate a new "Kosova resolution" of their own on 7/24, when the UN will be passing a new resolution next week, by Mr. Ban's own words. Looks like maybe the US-EU & Russia made their own deal.
US & UK do not use such DEFINING words unless the moment has finally come.
Interesting fact, even b92 noted that this UN resolution has no clause for the Ahtissari's plan but Kostunica knows better that Kosova will be independent at the end of talks in this resolution, too!. Looks like, at the least, this is the end of resolution rewrites for EU US and this one is a "GO".
the point of the visit is to hold back until all avanues have been exhausted before declaring independance with out un mandate but with eu & us backing. russia is not budging on its stance, belgrade and pristina agree to disagree, for good for bad someone has to make the call as long as a 3rd world war doesnt begin. belgrade is being tutored by russia on its position and pristina by the west. a decision will be made, i believe kosovo will get independance, so they dont get a seat on the un and cant apply to the imf and world bank, there are other avenues, this is the balkans and there is a million and one ways to skin a cat. kosovo will have sponsors to provide for any short fall required for economic growth. russia wins for throwing its weight and lose kosovo for serbia, kosovo doesnt get a seat on un but gets independance and no precedent has been set, so nobodys got anything to worry about.
The wonderful thing about these daily articles on Kosovo are that they have something for everyone.
First, we read that a new UN draft calls for further talks on Kosovo without setting an end-point of automatic independence. Team Kosovo points and says "aha! no independence!"
Then, despite what a general agreement says, the cookie-cutter US official says in the end that Kosovo will be independent, one way or the other. Team Kosova goes "aha! what more proof do you looney Serbs need?"
Then we get to the part where Kostunica rejects everything outright, telling the West to pound salt. Back to Team Kosovo.
Then we read about how a resolution on Kosovo needs to be rammed through the UN immediately, and that Russia "should cooperate", as if the first 847,000 this was said Russia said "nyet", the 847,001 time they finally say "Da".
No wonder everyone argues and has confidence their own Team is winning. I think four separate games are being simultaneouly played on one court!
This entire ordeal, is looking more and more like the chase scenes of every Benny Hill ending.
My dear ballkanian's
I just wanted to say that I have read lot of comments of all of you and I just wanted to say that we ballkanians do not know to resolve our problems, we know only to hate each other and to fight without sense, if we see back the wars in Yugoslavia we can understand very easy that there was no winner only destruction and in the end everybody in his house just without roof. My dear ballkanians, we will continue living like this unfortunately for many years and if you see nor albanians nor serbians can dicide how to resolve the problem, both part's are referring to USA or Russia and only showing the weakness of Ballkan society. Hopefully the Kosovo status will be resolved and after that hopefully ballkan countries will be part of Europian Union and only on that time you my dear ballkanians will understand how have been manipulated your society and yourself.
Really dissappointed in you B92 guys. You do understand that you are supposed to be impartial "referees" in this discussions, don't you?
Otherwise you might as well publicise what attitudes and oppinnions on Kosovo are accepted and what not. Give us some clearer guidelines. For instance you should say: no comments advocating the independence of Kosovo and the reduction of Serbia's size will be posted, etc, etc.
Of course that Serbia and Kosova(already separate)are going to negotiate the best way for Serbia to accept the Independence. Serbian politicians are not stupid, they know what USA and Alliance can do(1999 is not so distant) and that Kosova is lost forever since 1999. Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. However, if nothing suitable for Serbia to accept the independence can be negotiated after 120 days than Kosova will have the door open to declare the independence. By then USA and Russia will brush away their differences on issues far more important for them than Kosova status so the Russian veto will be avoided.
In a way, declaring the independence is the best way out for the Serbian politicians. Polls published some days ago told the Serbian politicians that they can breathe easily, since Kosova is the 5th priority. Polls told the politicians that even if Kosova becomes independent all they will loose is some coups of tea served from couple housewife’s and a chess match with some pensioners.
Upss I forgot international law. Never mind, I am not the only one that does not respect it.
US and Europe make smart move. Patiently pushing Russia's arguments like "Kosovo and Serbia need more talks" out of its hands. By putting the statement of Kosovo case as not precedent for any other case, the West creates a stepping stone. There is no Ahtisari plan and there is no independence in the resolution so it will be hard for Russia to reject or veto this. If Russia rejects this resolution than Russia would be definitely isolated about this issue. It would make Russia lose its credibility. This would have been fifth proposed resolution I think, and every new resolution had more and more concessions to Russia. If Russia accept the resolution, Albanians and Serbs will "talk" while world politician's will take a break about the Kosovo issue. Once the talks are over, the West will say NO MORE TALKS. New resolution will come based on Ahtisari plan. Russia would be already cornered and whatever it will do it won't be good for itself. Kosovo gets independence with or without UN resolution. Checkmate.
This resolution is not a win for Russia or Serbia. This is smart and patient move by the West to avoid stalemate in the winning position.
Just to remind some here about the 1244 resolution before it becomes another myth. This resolution speaks about the sovereignty of Yugoslavia over Kosovo who's recognized successor is Serbia (even though the resolution did not change to replace Yugoslavia with Serbia; hence Kosovo is special because it relates to the violent breakup of Yugoslavia) and a future determination of the status of Kosovo as an outcome of negotiations which should take into account the will of the people of Kosovo. It is hypocrisy to call on this resolution and to invoke only the parts that are suitable to one's claims, just as much as it is hypocritical to call on international law and order when just recently you broke every single international law and order that you could have.
If 1244 must be considered and implemented then the will of people of Kosovo should be considered just as equally, if not more, as the statement about the sovereignty of the Yugoslavia over Kosovo, as the last part of this resolution. It is about these two things that Russia's First Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Denisov was talking about in a recent article (that many here took it as an example of Russia's principled stance!), the right of the people to self-determination and sovereignty of states, and not some love about Serbia. And I believe it is about these two things that major powers at UN disagree (and of course their interests in the region). Thus, once a compromise about these two is found the resolution will pass and 1244 will be replaced with a new one.
Besides the above I don’t think there is much else that is going on currently in UN with regards to Kosovo. However, it is another matter that current Serb government is not being truthful to its citizens about this issue. They have chosen to stick their head on sand and don’t know anything else but "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", a slogan echoed blindly by many posters here daily.
The price that Serbia and its citizens are paying is very high. Just in 2006 there were about 2.65 billion dollars in trade between Russia and Serbia, with a huge deficit in favor of Russia. Major public state owned businesses were privatized and sold to Russian businesses below their value without proper biding and due processing. In the end of the day Kostunica and current Serb government feed their nation with such lies as "Kosovo is Serbia and will always be", and common citizens go one by their daily lives with false impressions and hopes (according to some recent polls published on this site they don’t even care about Kosovo, and the time this Serb government devotes to this issue does not reflect the true interests of its citizens) while the prospect of prosperous lives and EU membership fade away with each day that the Kosovo issue remains unresolved.
As per how much Russia cares about Serbia one can guess by finding out about the fate of the Serb document containing the proposal for the solution of the Kosovo issue that Serb government gave to Russia before Putin's meeting with Bush. Serb government claimed that it was going to make it public after the meeting between Putin and Bush, but up to now there is no word about this at all. This speaks of true Russian intention and interests on this issue. And now we are left with Serb government calling for implementation of 1244 resolution, resolution this that they have invested so much during the last 8 years in obstructing its implementation. It is ridiculous and irresponsible behavior of a government that is suppose to represent the best interests of its citizens. Unfortunately, a paranoid Serbian government seems to care more for an impossible illusion of keeping Kosovo within Serbia rather than for the fate of their compatriots in Kosovo.
There is a saying that history repeats itself. All these events up to now are reminiscent of 1999, when after many wrangling back and forth west acted unilaterally and NATO bombed Serbia until it withdrew from Kosovo. This time I don’t believe there will be war or anything like that but in the end if this obstructionism by Russia and its cronies in the current Serb government continue US and EU will act unilaterally. West will unilaterally accept independent Kosovo.
Teni - "after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?"
One was already a country and one is a province - big difference! One was fine to amicably go their separate way, and the other is not.
Nobody thinks any avenue will be easy. No nation is going to throw their arms in the air (arms, not guns!) and say 'Okay, well we tried, now let's just hand over a piece of our land'.
It doesn't matter that it is not 'run' by the state. It has protectorate status and is owned by the state. There are examples all over of fully autonomous provinces - in this case it is just being 'managed' by the UN.
The international community has failed dismally by not initiating the return of displaced people, and not doing anything to prepare a path for the future as a tolerant integrated modern society.
But now it is up to them to finally uphold the law and carry out their duties.
"Only housewife’s, pensioners and some other believe that there is still something to save. (Olf, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 16:53)"
I find it really amusing the view some people have placed on the recent poll in regards to Kosovo. The reality of the poll is that only housewives and pensioners support going to WAR over Kosovo. That's a good thing! The majority of Serbs want to settle the issue peacefully. What everyone is leaving out is that 50% of the Serbian population would NOT trade Kosovo for membership in the EU! Which actually means Serbs do in fact care very deeply about Kosovo, more so then they care about the EU.
The reality is Olf, independence will not pass in full in the UNSC. So we have two options. Either we discuss partition in a peaceful and rational manner, or Kosovo declares independence unilaterally and we have partition based on violence and reality on the ground.
Many try to make a big deal out of the fact the reality on the ground is that Kosovo is "independent", when the truth is the reality on the ground actually reflects partition.
I'm still waiting for logical arguments against partition...
This is to both side's of this on going dilemma. It's extremely obvious the serbian side will never give up there alledged rights of kosovo. On the other hand we have the pro albanian side we will never go back and they do have a solid arguement to some claim's. The west is pro K a the east pro serb every country is having a say in what is done except the serb's or the kosovars. It seem's to me the best result's would come from open dialogues without past resentments ,they will never heal.One major fact is the albanians are the majority in kosovo metahija. before the war and after the war and for the past 850 yrs when the slavs 1st arrived . the albanians should have the major say what happens in their lands . They must work closely with the surronding slav countries for the benefit of them all. there's no way kosovo can stay under serbia but there is also no way they can live without each other
Russia is the most important European country for the long term security and stability of the continent and any objective person with a grammar school education realizes this fact.Why in the world does anybody think that what 6 million Albanians want is more important than what Russia says?We Americans need Russia in more ways than I can count.The US is trillions of dollars in debt and much of that debt is held by China, Japan ,S.Korea and now even Russia.Both China and Russia have huge surpluses of dollars and NO DEBT.It is ironic that it is China who is largely subsidizing US military expenditures in Iraq,Afghanistan and Europe.The US has a huge budget deficit because it spends money it does not have and therefore needs to borrrow.The Chinese have over a TRILLION dollars in their reserves.Does anybody without an economics degree understand what would happen if China was to dump those dollars tomorrow?China has exceeded the US in the value of exports and is on track to exceed the US GNP very shortly.We Americans must STOP spending money we do not have.Bush will be gone very shortly and the first thing any new president is going to do is to start bringing our boys home from all corners of the world.
James,
Ur WRONG!
EU clearly said it wont recognise Kosovo without UN belssing. So there goes ur unilateral. As for events repeating themselves, I believe Ceku and Tachi are more like Milosevic now. So if anything it is much more likely that NATO will attack the KLA once they realise there is no independence and start attacking the UN/KFOR next.
What happened in 1999 had already happened when Resolution 1244 was passed. I don't see how anybody can argue that Resolution 1244 should be repealed because of events that happened *BEFORE* it was adopted in the first place.
When Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999 the U.S. State Department was still saying that 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians were missing and feared dead. Today the same U.S. State Department says the Kosovo death toll was probably about 10,000 (which is still higher than the 5,500 people confirmed dead or listed as missing).
Since Resolution 1244 was passed we have discovered that the carnage of the 1999 Kosovo War was 90% less than we originally thought.
In addition, since Resolution 1244 was passed, the Kosovo-Albanians have ethnically cleansed the majority of Kosovo's non-Albanian minorities.
I just read yesterday that the UCK veterans are threatening to start another war if Kosovo isn't given independence. Faik Fazliu, head of the war veterans' organisation, said: "We will be obliged to act as KLA soldiers and to realise the last will of our nation's martyrs.".
Fazli Veliu, UCK leader from Macedonia, also said yesterday that he can raise 10,000 men to fight in Kosovo.
Let's recap the facts:
1) The death toll among Kosovo-Albanians turned out to be at least 90% less than we thought it was when Resolution 1244 was passed in 1999.
2) The Kosovo-Albanians have been repressing non-Albanian minorities for the last eight years.
3) The Kosovo-Albanians are threatening to start another war unless we give-in to their demands.
Forgive me, but I just can't see why we should reward the Kosovo-Albanians with Serbia's territory for deceiving us and behaving in an intolerant and billigerent manner.
The way of indipedence can not stop, allthought Serbia try to do it.The USA is our second fatther land,do nto worrie, this is reality,We must be right, and we mus think we are european,we must see to the future not in past, the past is past like a serbian and albanian.
From bela,students of journalism
Kosovo is still an ugly little mess no matter who looks at it with longing eyes. Unemployment and hatred will make it a difficult place to live for many years, is it all worth the principle? Does anyone think either the Albanians or the Serbs will have success there once NATO leaves? Better to move the sacred monasteries to Serbia, complete with foundations and declare the rest as never never land, never thought of, never visited, by anybody, for at least 1000 years.
When you start off talking about “it” taking time, in reference to the imminent independence of Kosovo. Are we talking about the same time frame that it will take democracy to screw down the violence in Iraq since the over zealous intervention of the US with the EU following behind? As to your point about nobody threatening violence against the UN, EU or NATO, I suggest that you go back to May of 2002 when the KLA very much threatened the UN placed German tank division out of Augsburg, who were protecting the one of the Serb areas at the time. They in fact fired their tank guns on three occasions in response to direct fire from the KLA and killed two members in the process. The reason for these attacks against a UN protection force was because they had dissuaded the Serbs from reacting and the KLA got pretty angry at having nothing to show the media as open aggression against them by the bad Serbs.
Your final point “And after all if your Slav brethren in Montenegro did not want to be part of the same country as you anymore, what makes you think the Albanians will ever agree to that?” Kosovo has been a home to many legitimate peoples from the origins of Albania. In 1389, our Prince Lazar had a large quota of Albanians, who had settled in Kosovo many years before, fighting with him against the Ottoman Turks. These people are at home in Kosovo and we have no argument there, but do not ask what the Albanians will agree to as Kosovo has nothing to do with them or with the KLA and it never had anything to do with them, except for the use of exploitation. Ask them just how many of the genuine Kosovar Albanians did they kill because these good people would not take up arms against the Serbs. If you don’t find the answer then ask James Bisset, the former Canadian Ambassador to Belgrade, he can tell you.
History book my friend…. Buy them and read them and then come back and write again.
I see, its only the Kosovo Albanian's are threating as far some of the Serbs understand. What's you PM is saying? What's you president is saying that the whole region will be destabilized? What do those comments mean?
I hate reading some of the nonsense comments i.e. Princip, Kate, as well some from Albanian side(sorry can't remember the names), when they give comments its like they will be making the decision on behalf of Kosovars.
Please, give your opinion on the news that's provided by B92 but don't make judgments, cause at the end it won't be Serbia nor Kosovo that will have the final say. Like at the beginning of the 20 century, others tailored the shirt and they were wearing.
It would be very nice to see that B92 would remove any comment that has nor relation to the news provided. Can you guys (B92) do that?
Peace to Kosovo and Serbia too, make love and not war!
I think that not even God knows how the American administration and President Bush are thinking.
The Serbs have been pushed out of parts of now Croatia, they have been pushed out of parts of Bosnia, they have been moved from Montenegro, and now US administration wants to push Serbs out of Serbia!
The US administration is blind and dumb to the fact that there are over ten million Serbs in Kosovo. They are there in heart, and mind and soul. Just because these Serbs do not trod the ground does not mean we are not there and I'm only talking about the living as there are also the dead that I have not counted.
Serbia has legal right to hold onto that 15% of its territory, which is its southern province of Kosovo and Metohija and I for one am getting bloody sick and tired of the stupidity of the US administration not to mention the intended corruption.
Ethnic Albanians who are in Kosovo legally can choose to live but not steal Serbian land, Serbian sovereign territory.
Think about it. Do you think USA will give New mexico and the san diego region to mexico? just because mexicans are the majority of that region. or do you think that greece should give macedonia(the state) to the macedonians? Or Catolonia to be independent from Spain?
Get real! what right has USA or UN have to take someone's land from them. If 905 Albanians have a right to seperate from Serbia then 90% of Serbs in Republika Srpska have a right to seperate from Bosnia
I say to both sides:
1. adopt the minority protections of the Ahtissari plan, as well as its guarantees that Kosovo will not claim land outside of its borders,
2. compensate Serbia with some cash for investments made in Kosovo before 1999;
3. give northern Kosovo to Serbia.
And that's that. Although it will not make everyone happy, his should have been the imposed solution, since it is acceptable to many on both sides. I say just make the deal and get on with it and catch the train to Europe as soon as possible. The West needs to stop looking at partition as a dirty word when it can be used as part of a broader strategy and proposal for the resolution of the conflict.
Many commentators keep saying that the US and EU (or some of the countries in the EU such as the UK, Germany, etc,etc)will recognise Kosovo if there is no recognition at the UN.
One small problem with that point. The EU have stated that they will act as ONE, and will only recognise Kosovo's status which is determined by the UN. So if Kosovo declares unilateral independence, it will not be recognised by the EU or any EU member states.
A potential answer to Mr.Fried's desire to have an independence for Kosovo could be an Oriental proverb: "You may pronounce the word "khalva" (a mixture of honey and crushed nuts) million and million times, but you will never feel its sweet taste in your mouth".
thanks for the compliment and your post - good insight regarding the attacks against NATO/KFOR and useful to remind everyone who has been continually attcking international troops and it's efforts at bringing reconciliation that is the true key to stability.
PB,
your spot on with the united front of the EU and they have made this absolutly clear to the ethnic-Albanian leadership via Solana this week. The Russians are only too aware of the EU stance and will push the compromise that is required since it is clear that Ahtisaari delevered what was a one-sided and pre-determined objective. I would not call it a proposal since it was the US objective all along and we all are only too aware of Ahtisaari's chairmanship of ICG to know what he would suggest. More over it is also worth reminding everyone that Ahtisaari himself admitted he had not even spent a seconds worth of consideration on any alternative in the talks other then what he himself had already deceided in the year that he lead the supposed "negotiations" [sic].
The US & a 'few' EU states tried to impose their will on Serbia with Rambouilet and ended up in a illegal war at least this time the dipolmatic channel of the UN is being utilised and it will not be Serbia who will give up on this route nor Russia for that matter and 1244 will not be replaced but fully implemented in any new resolution.
http://www.swans.com/library/art5/zig024.html
Brian,
It is very easy to explain why Kosovo or Kosova should get independence: Serbia in 1999 did something unique in the history of all Europeen countries. Serbia turned against a substantial part of its own population by trying to expule it (for few months she succeeded by cleansing about a million). The whole world could see on TV Kosovo burning....100 or 200,000 houses destroyed.
Brian, this was not small crime that everybody can forget. After what happened Serbia can not be trusted anymore. It is the same thing when a man mistreats, abuses his children or his wife.
I hope you get the picture.
In no way was the war in Kosovo unique in European history. Did the Serbs round up all the Albanians and put them in concentration camps like Buchenwald, or Auschwitz, or the Croatian and muslim run camp - Jasenovac.
Some facts. Serbia didn't expel the Albanians. It was an orchestrated campaign by the KLA to move people, probably for the TV cameras of the West , to portray a "mass ethnic cleansing".
100,000 or 200,000 houses destroyed? Who gave you that piece of propaganda? Do you still believe the rubbish put out by the KLA. Don't you get it, don't you understand the information war that took place during the war or are you still so naieve? As i remeber, the West said that 100,000 Albanians had been killed by Serbian forces as well, so why don't you quote that whilst you are at it?
As per usual B92 allow your to post comments which have no factual basis whatsoever, so add nothing to the discussion. When will the administration at B92 wake up and only allow some mature discussion to be placed on the boards instead of the propaganda perpetuated by the likes of Joe.
you convienently ignore the fact that 1244 was formualted post conflict and as such that was the end of not the begining of some sort of international retribution. The fact that the NATO forces dropped more explosives in 78 days then during the 2nd World War is in itself far more disproportionate to what was happening in Serbia - do you suggest that the NATO nations deservedly should be partitioned???.
You attempt to show understanding but it is clear that you are only too aware of the lies that you personally wish to spread despite the truth being their for all.
For the record before this so-called humanitarian intervention [sic] that you suggest was stop a "unique" ethnic cleaning in europe. If this was so unique then I guess the (500,000) Serbs from Krajina can expect a very large amount of humble pie and and independent state very soon!
What's more is that the situation in Serbia's province was that of the state institutions quelling a seperatist insurgency which in the 2 years before NATO "The death toll in Kosovo was in the hundreds before the start of the bombing campaign. It was around 5,000 by the end. Not quite the "genocide" that some people claimed"
- quoted from Conor Foley (who worked for Amnesty International and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), in Kosovo)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/take_two/2007/04/oliver_kamm_v_conor_foley.html
Now Joe if you wish to continue spreading propaganda that is fine but B92 moderators should really be aware of the comments you post.
Princip,
Living in democratic and tolerant UK has apparently no impact on you. By reading some posts not convenient for you you would like to resort to good old censure. You seem to drop your mask and show your real face. I think you can learn from B92 to be more tolerant with dissenters.
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