Solana, Ban urge caution over Kosovo

In the end of the day, We are gonna go OUR way and declare independents. And the consequences will not be worst then we experienced those 100 years...
Peace to all!

I just want to know one thing. There are threats by the KLA to take up arms again, but against whom?? There are virtually no Serbs left and I'm sure that the KLA is not threatening the international community... are they?

Lotus - It's patently obvious that the Kosovo Albanians are not going to declare independence unilaterally, because if they were in a position to do so they would have done it already. Mabe you would get backing from the USA, but it does not want to act alone, therefore the voice of the EU is very loud in the ear of the US, and they have said that they will not recognise unilateral independence. Neither will Ban Ki Moon, the mouthpiece of the US.

So for al the Abanian protestations, unilateral independence just ain't happening whteher you like it or not. you have to listen to your US masters now, they will tell you what to do - you have no choice.

Lotus,
You are absolutely right. Undecision or "horse-trading" politique of some countries should not stop you to declare independence. You are the only courageous people left in Europe with the Poles, who do allow to get pushed around.

They said it and hope it's now clear...by next week a resolution will state "Ahtissari's plan will take effect" after a period of FAILED negotiations. Solana read the poll held by CESID. Perhaps EU and UN leaders are the only ones listening to 59% of the Serbian public who want JOBS and ECO. growth to be the # issue being tackled by their politicians.

Still no answer to my question?

Somebody please enlighten me: what would be Belgrade's potential "unilateral move?"

Lily
If Kosovo was ever to be free it would have done it 99. But now its obvious that there is no theft of Serbian territory. So the title next week will read... "Russia vetos Kosovo resolution!"

U had ur shot and missed and now Serbia will reclaim Kosovo since Milosevic is no longer alive and since its a democratic nation. Simple really.

CCCC

No Kate, KLA does not threaten the Int.community. KLS has never threatened Serbian minority living in Kosova . KLA has protected the population from the rappers, murderers and terrorist that you support. Thank god for KLA.

Kosova population will wait for their independence as long as it takes. There is no need for rush. Serbia’s failed politician are loosing patience and credibility in Serbia.
The day will come soon.

Well lets just see what next week brings but I can once more repeat it will be;

No Independence
No Illegal Unilateral declaration
No Illegal Recognition
No Violence - NATO will act.

The ethnic-Albaninan leadership have been told that you will have to wait and must sign up to the new talks - they may well have spent all their negotiation skills but the State of Serbia certainly has not.

If there was a Veto next week will that be as good as stating that Status has been finalised i.e. we are then merely discusing ways that Serbia re-imposes its instituitions? I would still like to see a transition period with the EU involved but clearly if there is no new resolution does that not now imply Status decided totally in favour of Serbia? Like I said I would prefer a win-win and much of the Ahtisaari plan has merits with an EU guarantor and would be useful in transition whiel reconcilation and trust is re-built. It is just a thought and it would interesting to know the consensus.

Sat in Manchester laughing here.

Kate, dont grace Olf with a reply.
I've often worried about your gangster rap and Al Qaeda leanings.

Olf - I do not support any murderers I can assure you. Why accuse me of such things just because I am against independence? There are plenty of people who do not support independence for various reasons, and you cannot assume that they all support any sort of extremism or violence.

You did not answer the question that I asked at all. The KLA has said that they will take up arms again if they do not get independence. My question was who would they take up arms against? What could they do? Try answering properly without insults.

"Resolution unacceptable to Serbia will not pass."
-Sergei Lavrov,
Russian Foreign Minister

So much for Lily's arguements. Face it Albanians, Kosovo is not getting independence without Serbia's (and consequently Russia's)consent, period!
Kosovo will stay in Serbia where it belongs, sooner or later Albanians will have to accept this, because they have no legitamite claim to Kosovo, and they never did.

As for OLF, you're comments about the KLA are a complete joke. The KLA is directly responsible for ethically cleansing 11 percent of Kosovo's total population (230,000+ people)from the territory, and has has committed thousands of kidnappings and murders among the civillian population of Kosovo. The KLA's long list of innocent victims include not only Serbs, Roma, as well as other non-albanian victims, but also their fellow Albanians as well. Furthermore, the KLA is indeed a terrorist organization with proven ties to Al Qaeda. This is a well known fact, which was most recently confirmed when it was discovered that 4 of the 6 terrorists arrested in the foiled Fort Dix terror plot, are Albanians and
former KLA members. While confessing to the FBI,it was reported that at least
one of the KLA terrorists openly acknowledged his ties to Al Qaeda, and affectionately referred to Bin Laden as "Uncle Benny."

What is Mr. Ban's plan for resolving the 50 year stalemate between the north and south of his own country?No rush there?Talking is preferable to silence.

Olf,

You can never be too careful. Imagine a world run by lawless groups and individuals such as Run-DMC and Snoop Dogg.

Here is what Serbia has to offer to Albanians, ..... B92 Front Page story... BELGRADE -- "The Social-Economic Council proposed that the net monthly minimal wage in Serbia should be about EUR 140. This amounts to an hourly wage of less than one euro."

one can get the impression that we are dealing with only one or two Albanians here, who are constantly changing nick-names but stubbornly repeating those propaganda-phrases, just as if they are 16-years old or so...

it´s not about rap, my dear little boy, it´s about LAW, and international treaties, something you will understand, after growing older...

you will see!

Dear kate, exactly what is your status on the Kosova deal? Are you an expert? Are you serbian by nationalit and how long have you lived in Kosova?

The reason why Kosovars label serbs as "rappers", "murderers", and "killers" isn't because it's fun to just shout out stupid things ---- it's because of the actions that were carried out.

When Kosovars burned (number needed) churches in Feb 2004 all the serbs cried out "albanians this and that."

What about all the mosques burned by your people, all the houses burned to ground, all the men killed (rounded up) all the women raped?

To your question, a smart UCK leader wouldn't attack anyone; they would simply block any goverment building.

Princip reconciliation and trust are words that people in the Balkans don’t seem to understand. As a young boy living in Yugoslavia I remember going to school and on my way home we threw rocks at our neighbors who had supported a different political group from that which our village supported. I also remember throwing rocks at Muslim children and of course they threw rocks back at us. This kind of bullying and intimidation is going on 55 years later in Kosovo. The Albanians continue to claim that they were the victims but it seems to me that the Albanians have such a chip on their shoulders the size of Mt. Everest. The Albanians had more rights in Yugoslavia than they had in their homeland Albania and they were escaping to Yugoslavia in droves, a communist country and were given asylum by the Serbian people, but that was not enough for them, and now they want to take their country away from them. Any criticism of Albanians is some sort of persecution and you never hear a peep out of any of the Albanian posters when their society introduces Kanun as a parallel law in Kosovo, there is no peep from them when they threaten war as their religion dictates that they should subjugate all of us to the will of God, If the Albanians have their way there will be no democracy in Kosovo and they will be living in Kosovo in the past. We never hear about honor killing by the insane family members who wind up in jail but accept that their family will pay the price for their living in the past. The posters here keep telling the Serbs to move on and live in the 21st century when they live and practice insane doctrines hoisted on them by some nomad from the Middle Ages. Please Albanian posters don’t get offended because what I say here is also true of fundamentalist religious groups who are also insane. The only religion that makes any sense is Buddhism because it teaches “Right Speech — One speaks in a non hurtful, not exaggerated, truthful way.Right Actions — Wholesome action, avoiding action that would do harm to others and Right Livelihood — One's way of livelihood does not harm in any way oneself or others; directly or indirectly.” I am not a Budhist but I think we can all learn from it.

My question was who would they take up arms against? What could they do?

My guess would be anyone with a Serb uniform trying to pass the border, and yes even those in Mitrovica with a Serb uniform. Anyone involved in Serbian military, paramilitary, police force, all non civilians. My guess is that this will happen after the parliament of Kosovo/a declares independence. I think this is a scenario that might occur if after four month of negotiations we have the same situation we have now.

Do any of the Serb who post here think that the Serb government should come up with a new offer in order to reach a compromise? If yes what should the offer entail? If not, do you really think that what the Serbian government is offering now is a compromise? If you think it is a compromise, what will be different this time from the last time that will convince the Albanians that the same plan the Serbian government was offering this time unlike last time is a compromise? When I say Albanians I don't mean the politicians, I mean the Albanian people in Kosovo/a?
Also how many Serbs here believe that a true compromise between Serbs and Albanians can ever be reached on the status of Kosovo/a?
My conviction is that any Serb and Albanian given time might be able to agree on anything but the Kosovo/a issue.

KLA? Just read the Link Kate sent in yesterdays post...

Kate... I just wanted to comment on the link that you posted in reference to the Canadien General...Excellent and true!

Laki,James, Liam and other Jake USA... For one I am not a soldier... I am a UN Peacekeeper that worked in Mitrovica for two years...So I did see what actually happened and the team I worked on I did work like a dog... As for my Patriotism? Trust me it far superceeds most...In fact I am more "right wing conservative" that one could imagine... In fact most true BORN Americans I know, your police, firefighters, blue collar workers etc. share the same beliefs I do... Laki I am impressed that you knew that INDIANS did not have to pay taxes... only if they are 30% or more... I am not... As for me liking the Serbs? I do...very much so...They are very honest...if they dont like you... then you will know it...

On that note... while I worked the bridge in Mitro for two years every incident was caused by the Albanian side... Not one Serb crossed that bridge to cause a problem... When and where was I told to "go home" and myself and 4 other Americans were nearly stoned to death and had Moltov bombs thrown at us??? November 28 2006 prtoest in Pristina..Look it up... We won that day though.., 8 of us against 5000...they never made it to the UN building... As for my next mission... It will be in Afghanistan as of October 6.. I have to take mandatory 6 months off. I hoped that answered all your questions... Am I pro Serbian? No.. I am just not as blind as other Americans... Like I said... I had access to many police records in Kosovo... Serbs to were victimized by Albanians and the sad thing is... Albanians and Internationals were also victimized by Albanians pretending to be Serbs...

Anyways... may all be resolved in peace... and God Bless you all...

Hi Rod

Rod, KLA protected the population from the Serbian state organised criminals, rappers terrorist has you support. Serbian killer, rappers are still at large. One of them could be your neighbour. This fact is recognised from all the countries in the world. So, you have missed the point. Terrorists and linked with Al Qaeda, Saddam Husein are the Serbian government and not KLA. No such links proved except 4 individual Albanians arrested in USA recently. These guys don not belong to ex-KLA and ex-KLA does not feel responsible for their actions. KLA was active only in KosovA

Serbian minority was not cleansed from KLA. They have left KosovA because they have committed so many crimes. I believe that conscious hurts. You know these but you seem to forgot.

Olf,
You see, I am from Kosovo, and I did leave Kosovo because of KLA threats...and none of my family members was involved in any violence, not even an insult towards the Albanians. Any comment on this?

To Eho:

Olf,
You see, I am from Kosovo, and I did leave Kosovo because of KLA threats...and none of my family members was involved in any violence, not even an insult towards the Albanians. Any comment on this?

I feel sorry for you and your family mate. I know that incidents like this happened but they were in a very small scale and headed from thugs not KLA proper. These incident were not organised from the Kosova institutions as it is the case with serbia.
However, if you stil have property in Kosova come back, this is your country too mate.

All the best

I have not seen the situation in Kosova except what is shown on TV. What I can tell you is the thousands of refugees that were living in Albania during the war. The lucky ones lived at our homes (that should say enough about the treat the Albanians had in Serbia in comparison to that they had in Albania), the rest in stadiums, camps, fields, anywhere there was a shelter. Those people know very well why they were leaving. And they do not want that to be repeated anymore. I am not from Kosova. But I know some of Kosovars very well (both muslim and catholics). The disbelieve of Serbs is deep inside. The west, the US, etc can change their course of politics. They never will. Nobody here never mentions that the independence movements in Albania (under Turkish rule) were coming from Kosova. They have fighted with Serbs for centuries. That is why the independence is a better solution. Not because Kosova Albanians are better than Serbs, but because until they get independence there will be always troubles: protests, demonstrations even wars. That is what the west already understood from 200 years of bloody history in Kosova. The UN soldiers or any westener (I can imagine the history american or canadian soldiers learn in their schools) might not understand that. It is ok. We will just continue to discuss until you get to know what we know since childhood.

In the end of the day, We are gonna go OUR way and declare independents. And the consequences will not be worst then we experienced those 100 years...
Peace to all!

I just want to know one thing. There are threats by the KLA to take up arms again, but against whom?? There are virtually no Serbs left and I'm sure that the KLA is not threatening the international community... are they?

Lotus - It's patently obvious that the Kosovo Albanians are not going to declare independence unilaterally, because if they were in a position to do so they would have done it already. Mabe you would get backing from the USA, but it does not want to act alone, therefore the voice of the EU is very loud in the ear of the US, and they have said that they will not recognise unilateral independence. Neither will Ban Ki Moon, the mouthpiece of the US.

So for al the Abanian protestations, unilateral independence just ain't happening whteher you like it or not. you have to listen to your US masters now, they will tell you what to do - you have no choice.

Lotus,
You are absolutely right. Undecision or "horse-trading" politique of some countries should not stop you to declare independence. You are the only courageous people left in Europe with the Poles, who do allow to get pushed around.

They said it and hope it's now clear...by next week a resolution will state "Ahtissari's plan will take effect" after a period of FAILED negotiations. Solana read the poll held by CESID. Perhaps EU and UN leaders are the only ones listening to 59% of the Serbian public who want JOBS and ECO. growth to be the # issue being tackled by their politicians.

Still no answer to my question?

Somebody please enlighten me: what would be Belgrade's potential "unilateral move?"

Lily
If Kosovo was ever to be free it would have done it 99. But now its obvious that there is no theft of Serbian territory. So the title next week will read... "Russia vetos Kosovo resolution!"

U had ur shot and missed and now Serbia will reclaim Kosovo since Milosevic is no longer alive and since its a democratic nation. Simple really.

CCCC

No Kate, KLA does not threaten the Int.community. KLS has never threatened Serbian minority living in Kosova . KLA has protected the population from the rappers, murderers and terrorist that you support. Thank god for KLA.

Kosova population will wait for their independence as long as it takes. There is no need for rush. Serbia’s failed politician are loosing patience and credibility in Serbia.
The day will come soon.

Well lets just see what next week brings but I can once more repeat it will be;

No Independence
No Illegal Unilateral declaration
No Illegal Recognition
No Violence - NATO will act.

The ethnic-Albaninan leadership have been told that you will have to wait and must sign up to the new talks - they may well have spent all their negotiation skills but the State of Serbia certainly has not.

If there was a Veto next week will that be as good as stating that Status has been finalised i.e. we are then merely discusing ways that Serbia re-imposes its instituitions? I would still like to see a transition period with the EU involved but clearly if there is no new resolution does that not now imply Status decided totally in favour of Serbia? Like I said I would prefer a win-win and much of the Ahtisaari plan has merits with an EU guarantor and would be useful in transition whiel reconcilation and trust is re-built. It is just a thought and it would interesting to know the consensus.

Sat in Manchester laughing here.

Kate, dont grace Olf with a reply.
I've often worried about your gangster rap and Al Qaeda leanings.

Olf - I do not support any murderers I can assure you. Why accuse me of such things just because I am against independence? There are plenty of people who do not support independence for various reasons, and you cannot assume that they all support any sort of extremism or violence.

You did not answer the question that I asked at all. The KLA has said that they will take up arms again if they do not get independence. My question was who would they take up arms against? What could they do? Try answering properly without insults.

"Resolution unacceptable to Serbia will not pass."
-Sergei Lavrov,
Russian Foreign Minister

So much for Lily's arguements. Face it Albanians, Kosovo is not getting independence without Serbia's (and consequently Russia's)consent, period!
Kosovo will stay in Serbia where it belongs, sooner or later Albanians will have to accept this, because they have no legitamite claim to Kosovo, and they never did.

As for OLF, you're comments about the KLA are a complete joke. The KLA is directly responsible for ethically cleansing 11 percent of Kosovo's total population (230,000+ people)from the territory, and has has committed thousands of kidnappings and murders among the civillian population of Kosovo. The KLA's long list of innocent victims include not only Serbs, Roma, as well as other non-albanian victims, but also their fellow Albanians as well. Furthermore, the KLA is indeed a terrorist organization with proven ties to Al Qaeda. This is a well known fact, which was most recently confirmed when it was discovered that 4 of the 6 terrorists arrested in the foiled Fort Dix terror plot, are Albanians and
former KLA members. While confessing to the FBI,it was reported that at least
one of the KLA terrorists openly acknowledged his ties to Al Qaeda, and affectionately referred to Bin Laden as "Uncle Benny."

What is Mr. Ban's plan for resolving the 50 year stalemate between the north and south of his own country?No rush there?Talking is preferable to silence.

Olf,

You can never be too careful. Imagine a world run by lawless groups and individuals such as Run-DMC and Snoop Dogg.

Here is what Serbia has to offer to Albanians, ..... B92 Front Page story... BELGRADE -- "The Social-Economic Council proposed that the net monthly minimal wage in Serbia should be about EUR 140. This amounts to an hourly wage of less than one euro."

one can get the impression that we are dealing with only one or two Albanians here, who are constantly changing nick-names but stubbornly repeating those propaganda-phrases, just as if they are 16-years old or so...

it´s not about rap, my dear little boy, it´s about LAW, and international treaties, something you will understand, after growing older...

you will see!

Dear kate, exactly what is your status on the Kosova deal? Are you an expert? Are you serbian by nationalit and how long have you lived in Kosova?

The reason why Kosovars label serbs as "rappers", "murderers", and "killers" isn't because it's fun to just shout out stupid things ---- it's because of the actions that were carried out.

When Kosovars burned (number needed) churches in Feb 2004 all the serbs cried out "albanians this and that."

What about all the mosques burned by your people, all the houses burned to ground, all the men killed (rounded up) all the women raped?

To your question, a smart UCK leader wouldn't attack anyone; they would simply block any goverment building.

Princip reconciliation and trust are words that people in the Balkans don’t seem to understand. As a young boy living in Yugoslavia I remember going to school and on my way home we threw rocks at our neighbors who had supported a different political group from that which our village supported. I also remember throwing rocks at Muslim children and of course they threw rocks back at us. This kind of bullying and intimidation is going on 55 years later in Kosovo. The Albanians continue to claim that they were the victims but it seems to me that the Albanians have such a chip on their shoulders the size of Mt. Everest. The Albanians had more rights in Yugoslavia than they had in their homeland Albania and they were escaping to Yugoslavia in droves, a communist country and were given asylum by the Serbian people, but that was not enough for them, and now they want to take their country away from them. Any criticism of Albanians is some sort of persecution and you never hear a peep out of any of the Albanian posters when their society introduces Kanun as a parallel law in Kosovo, there is no peep from them when they threaten war as their religion dictates that they should subjugate all of us to the will of God, If the Albanians have their way there will be no democracy in Kosovo and they will be living in Kosovo in the past. We never hear about honor killing by the insane family members who wind up in jail but accept that their family will pay the price for their living in the past. The posters here keep telling the Serbs to move on and live in the 21st century when they live and practice insane doctrines hoisted on them by some nomad from the Middle Ages. Please Albanian posters don’t get offended because what I say here is also true of fundamentalist religious groups who are also insane. The only religion that makes any sense is Buddhism because it teaches “Right Speech — One speaks in a non hurtful, not exaggerated, truthful way.Right Actions — Wholesome action, avoiding action that would do harm to others and Right Livelihood — One's way of livelihood does not harm in any way oneself or others; directly or indirectly.” I am not a Budhist but I think we can all learn from it.

My question was who would they take up arms against? What could they do?

My guess would be anyone with a Serb uniform trying to pass the border, and yes even those in Mitrovica with a Serb uniform. Anyone involved in Serbian military, paramilitary, police force, all non civilians. My guess is that this will happen after the parliament of Kosovo/a declares independence. I think this is a scenario that might occur if after four month of negotiations we have the same situation we have now.

Do any of the Serb who post here think that the Serb government should come up with a new offer in order to reach a compromise? If yes what should the offer entail? If not, do you really think that what the Serbian government is offering now is a compromise? If you think it is a compromise, what will be different this time from the last time that will convince the Albanians that the same plan the Serbian government was offering this time unlike last time is a compromise? When I say Albanians I don't mean the politicians, I mean the Albanian people in Kosovo/a?
Also how many Serbs here believe that a true compromise between Serbs and Albanians can ever be reached on the status of Kosovo/a?
My conviction is that any Serb and Albanian given time might be able to agree on anything but the Kosovo/a issue.

KLA? Just read the Link Kate sent in yesterdays post...

Kate... I just wanted to comment on the link that you posted in reference to the Canadien General...Excellent and true!

Laki,James, Liam and other Jake USA... For one I am not a soldier... I am a UN Peacekeeper that worked in Mitrovica for two years...So I did see what actually happened and the team I worked on I did work like a dog... As for my Patriotism? Trust me it far superceeds most...In fact I am more "right wing conservative" that one could imagine... In fact most true BORN Americans I know, your police, firefighters, blue collar workers etc. share the same beliefs I do... Laki I am impressed that you knew that INDIANS did not have to pay taxes... only if they are 30% or more... I am not... As for me liking the Serbs? I do...very much so...They are very honest...if they dont like you... then you will know it...

On that note... while I worked the bridge in Mitro for two years every incident was caused by the Albanian side... Not one Serb crossed that bridge to cause a problem... When and where was I told to "go home" and myself and 4 other Americans were nearly stoned to death and had Moltov bombs thrown at us??? November 28 2006 prtoest in Pristina..Look it up... We won that day though.., 8 of us against 5000...they never made it to the UN building... As for my next mission... It will be in Afghanistan as of October 6.. I have to take mandatory 6 months off. I hoped that answered all your questions... Am I pro Serbian? No.. I am just not as blind as other Americans... Like I said... I had access to many police records in Kosovo... Serbs to were victimized by Albanians and the sad thing is... Albanians and Internationals were also victimized by Albanians pretending to be Serbs...

Anyways... may all be resolved in peace... and God Bless you all...

Hi Rod

Rod, KLA protected the population from the Serbian state organised criminals, rappers terrorist has you support. Serbian killer, rappers are still at large. One of them could be your neighbour. This fact is recognised from all the countries in the world. So, you have missed the point. Terrorists and linked with Al Qaeda, Saddam Husein are the Serbian government and not KLA. No such links proved except 4 individual Albanians arrested in USA recently. These guys don not belong to ex-KLA and ex-KLA does not feel responsible for their actions. KLA was active only in KosovA

Serbian minority was not cleansed from KLA. They have left KosovA because they have committed so many crimes. I believe that conscious hurts. You know these but you seem to forgot.

Olf,
You see, I am from Kosovo, and I did leave Kosovo because of KLA threats...and none of my family members was involved in any violence, not even an insult towards the Albanians. Any comment on this?

To Eho:

Olf,
You see, I am from Kosovo, and I did leave Kosovo because of KLA threats...and none of my family members was involved in any violence, not even an insult towards the Albanians. Any comment on this?

I feel sorry for you and your family mate. I know that incidents like this happened but they were in a very small scale and headed from thugs not KLA proper. These incident were not organised from the Kosova institutions as it is the case with serbia.
However, if you stil have property in Kosova come back, this is your country too mate.

All the best

I have not seen the situation in Kosova except what is shown on TV. What I can tell you is the thousands of refugees that were living in Albania during the war. The lucky ones lived at our homes (that should say enough about the treat the Albanians had in Serbia in comparison to that they had in Albania), the rest in stadiums, camps, fields, anywhere there was a shelter. Those people know very well why they were leaving. And they do not want that to be repeated anymore. I am not from Kosova. But I know some of Kosovars very well (both muslim and catholics). The disbelieve of Serbs is deep inside. The west, the US, etc can change their course of politics. They never will. Nobody here never mentions that the independence movements in Albania (under Turkish rule) were coming from Kosova. They have fighted with Serbs for centuries. That is why the independence is a better solution. Not because Kosova Albanians are better than Serbs, but because until they get independence there will be always troubles: protests, demonstrations even wars. That is what the west already understood from 200 years of bloody history in Kosova. The UN soldiers or any westener (I can imagine the history american or canadian soldiers learn in their schools) might not understand that. It is ok. We will just continue to discuss until you get to know what we know since childhood.