Fried: Limited talks, supervised independence

I dont do politics but i read what a Serbian leaders do not understand reality same as serbian people living in kosovo, There is no way that Kosovors will ever be able to be ruled by Serbia, its just way it has happen 8 years ago, I dont understand How on erth serbian leader have face to demand kosove to be part of serbia , when people of kosovo do not want to be with serbia, this is not wish of leaders of kosovo to hold new talks with serbs to achive an agreement on kosovo future , we must ask people of kosovo what they want to do thrue referendum, this is way to live in peace for people of Ballkans not dicide in Russia or Usa. I think we need to talk to serbia of course we want a good reliation with our neighburs but not for status of Kosova , this is not issue that we can agree with Serbs. Kosova Must be idenpendent and all people in kosova must have same rights of living , same rights of education, living on civilized world.I really do not Understand you MR Samerzic i think you should work in kosovos future and work for serbs in kosovo , you are more concentrated in serbias problems than ours.

Raqi
Equal rights... YES
Independent state... NO
We cannot give part of our state. No country in the world would, so why should we.

Here is the EU plan for the Balkans.All 7 Cefta countries join by 2010.Kosovo/Republika Srbska/Transdniester/Albanian Macedonia join as parts of Serbian/Bosnian/Moldovan/Macedonian confederations in 2010 or as unilaterally self declared states(legally unrecognized ala Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus)never.Which one is more appealing?No case is unique or more deserving than any other and this argument has played out its course.

Mr. Raqi,

Would you have any objections to partition? Or any other creative solutions to the Kosovo crisis? There are many other options that have not been explored yet.

I understand your desire to rule yourselves, we Serbs feel the same way as our people are also split between a number of countries. We should focus on our common interests and not what divides us.

Let us work together to find a peaceful way of negotiating a proper settlement that provides for a positive precedent in the region for finalizing all the various territorial disputes.

I have yet to hear a logical argument why all of Kosovo should be independent instead of a partition plan.

To Cvele and Others,
Unfortunately for you and fortunately for us we (you and I) are NOT the ones that will make that decision. Let’s see some facts:
1. Kosovo – Serbian land, NEVER - but yes, was kept by force since,
2. Serbians – Always a minority (maximum 6%) despite all colonization during centuries,
3. 1999 – For twenty (20) years World looked at what your government and you as nation are capable of doing – and was forced to come you down – unfortunately with bombs.
4. Today – Kosovo continues its life (with Serbs) that are NOT forced in enclaves and who are free to move and speak their language – If you need convincing come to Kosovo and see for yourself.
5. Tomorrow – Kosovo WILL be independent (as you are)
And in the END I don’t think that is necessary for Serbia to give away all its resources (NIS, EPS) to Russia just to try to keep something that has LOST and cannot win back. I think it is better for you to keep those resources and feed your people.

Seems to me Mr. Tadic got the message, he says:

"Serbia -fought- for its southern province with all diplomatic, legal and peaceful means, and voiced opposition to any unilateral recognition of Kosovo’s independence."

1. He speaks in past tense. Which means he understands that what could be done was done and now its time to let go.

2. He does not want unilateral recognition, because he understand in that case Serbs losse even more.

Raqi, to make one thing clear:

you can live there if you accept that it is Serbia. if you do not, then you have all freedom to leave, if you don´t like that.
but I call you to stay and build up a society that can be called european at all, WITHIN Serbia.

if in a house with six appartments all six tenants say it´s "their" house, that doesn´t matter at all, since it is ONLY the OWNER who can say that it is his house.

I recently heard the Serbian song that won the euro contest and although I did not understand the words it sounds bella.I think the western lobbyists pushing for an illegal solution to the Kosovo situation are going to have to adopt the Stones' song "I can't get no satisfaction" very soon as their "national anthem."

You know, Kosovars don't seem to realize how dependent they are towards Serbia. The Serbs could cut off the power frid and you'd have no power. Lets not kid ourselves, first Kosovo, then Macedonia, etc etc...then you guys will want parts of Greece too right? And then Ceku comes out and threatens war the other day if no deadline is set? Got news for you, the US and UK are too bogged down in Iraq and don't think Putin will just let you guys roll over Mitrovica. You have much to learn in the wolrd of Realpolitik...

we must realize that serbian people do not want their own, they want someone else's country, Kosova was part of Yugoslavia not Serbia until 1989, when milosevic occupied Kosova.
Of course Kosova will be indepedent. Kosova belongs to Kosovars not to serbia or albania, leave us alone

You want a COMPROMISE?

"Resolution 1823"

Kosova and Serbia both independent provinces within Newgoslavia.

Either Kosova or Serbia can declare independence after 50 years (2057).

Presidency and position of prime minister is held on bases of vise versa (one year serbia, one year Kosova).

One seat in UN.

Two different armies + police controlled by prime minister.

Prime minister can't dissolve the parliament at his wish. Areas with more than 25% ethnicity get automatic decentralization (some form).

No [official] state language or religion.

Harsh anti-racist laws and anti-segregation laws.

----------------------------

Agree to that, to EQUALITY. It doesn't have to be called yugoslavia or newslavia; it can be called Sersova (serbia + kosova).

The Kosovo Albanian leadership showed it's true color when they supported and participated in the wars against Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia. They participated in ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serbs in "Operation Storm" and they had many para-military units fighting along the side of Croatians and Bosnian Muslims. So the argument that the Serbs carried out atrocities against their own citizens is a lie, when those Albanians never considered themselves citizens of Serbia. All they wanted to do was annex it to a greater Albania.
The Serbs did what every nation on earth has the right to do and that is to use it's military to protect it's borders against forgein or domestic enemies. This was nothing but a civil war and we Americans should not have intervened.

I am an American, and love my country, but I would love to see these diplomat bullies get a big slap in the face. The arrogance of the US is embarrassing. How dare they dictate what borders should be redrawn in Europe. Did God come down and give them this right. I see so clearly now why we Americans are hated in most of the world. I am ashamed of US policies but, I am just a taxpayer that enables our politicians to do their dirty work. American politicians preach democracy, but believe me, so much of it has been taken away from the US populace.

Cvele...for ur information Kosova has never been a part of Serbia..this is just a fake claim that serbs ..Kosova has been a constituant unite of former-Yugoslavia...Yugoslavia was the only place where all serbs could live in one land..thenx to their leaders they abolish that rule...now Yugoslavia is earased from the political map...and my dear friends of serbian origine..KOSOVA CAN`T BE AN INTEGRAL PART OF SERBIA it never was and it never will be...not even, if an Angel will come to power in belgrade will convince us to...Period!!

The US is really no honest broker. It conveniently glosses over the fact that there is no incentive for Pristina to negotiate SERIOUSLY if the outcome is predetermined. Luckily it is not the only member with the veto at the UNSC.

Since we are on the subject of honesty, the German intelligence service BND has information that authorities in Pristina paid for the services of UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari is true. The Global Information System (GIS), an intelligence data service meant exclusively for governments was quoted.

equal rights?

would you give Albanians votes in parliament? would you let an Albanian be Serbia's prime minister, or even president?

I really don't think so

Independence is better. Let's go separate ways, PLEASE.

not only that, but Albanians do not want your "equal rights"

keep your lovely rights in Serbia.

Albanians should insist on referendum! The will of people should be heard! And should the democratic world be against their will, then, I guess world's democratic governments are no better than Serbia's democracy.

Referendum is a Must!

Arrogance will not bring you anywere,and will not change the reality.
however im going to reply in your style!

EQUAL RIGHTS...YES
INDEPENDENCE...YES

Its my word against yours!

Cvele, equal rights in independent Kosovo

I am a Serb living in the north of England. I was born here as my late father fought against Tito in the Second World War and fled after Britain and the US, together with Stalin, handed Yugoslavia to the communists.

The history of Kosovo starts long before our infamous 1389 and it will continue long into the future. The question is how it will continue. I was brought up with our history being taught to me on a very realistic scale. I learned many historical faults regarding our Serbian history, such as the fact that our glorious Kosovo has been the victim of such mal-propaganda and misinformation over the last many years that it is very difficult for any Serb to understand the true situation, let alone a foreigner.

It is a fact that under Tito, communist Yugoslavia prospered. It prospered at the cost of both Serbia and also Kosovo. The seeds of the present Albanian problem were indeed sewn by dear old Broz as he opened the floodgates whilst beating down any Serb that protested. The documentary evidence is there for all to see…. If we want to!

Today were are in the full swing of losing Kosovo and all I see is the same old divide in the Serbs as there has always been in our history. On one side we have the “children of Belgrade” wandering if the new jeans they buy should be of this make or that whilst at the same time we have the Kostunica brigade hanging onto the right wing faction of a fast faltering Serbian Orthodox Church, spitting out the same rhetoric as they have for the last few years but doing nothing to aid any diplomatic solution. And why is this so?

I have heard nobody from any side of the Serbian lobby tell us why we should not lose Kosovo. Yes, it makes the blood boil. Yes, the history proves that we have as much right to Kosovo as the authentic Kosovo Albanians but it stops there. Nobody has produced any sort of plan or demographic structure to a future Kosovo that protects the rights of both peoples. All we seem to be doing is demonstrating on a note of emotion and not with any political skill. At the same time any neutral remark that is made by a Serb regarding Kosovo is then shouted down in public by some right wing body, either from the church or from one of the more vocal parties.

I have no solution folks – but I do know that as long as we avoid the heart of the reasons and legitimacies as to why we should hold on to Kosovo, this is going to be a long game of tennis, with the ball bouncing from one side of the court to the other. That is until the next round of fighting comes along to take us back to square one again. And it will!

Vojislav Dukic

To: Cvele

As for Kosovo yes you want Kosovo but you want it without Albanians, and this is the reason why Kosovo should be Independent.
Mr Cvele have you ever been to Kosovo and seen how we lived before 1999 than you would understand why we want Independency.
Peace to All

Raqi the serbian's in Kosovo do wont to be a part of Serbia. I would rather prefer Kosovo to be split up like Cyprus which has been split up between Greece and Turkey. I guess its a another fight between Orthdox vrs Muslims.

Cvele, there are no equal rights without independence, every body know this, I am sure you know and will admit. It is only a matter of time. All we are sure.

Cvele, you must be someone very important decision-making factor in Serbia. Even disguised under Cvele, you sound as the one who is in charge. My assumption is based on your decisive stand on the quantity of rights you’re willing to share, that is approach of those openhanded towards the rest who have come in this world not that privileged to make decisions on their own.
However, you’ll be invited to celebrate in the centre of Prishtinё once we get independence, it will come about sooner or later, believe me. By the way, I’m able to understand your feelings about all this, though I just want to let you know that the bad feelings are as a consequence of a long propaganda you had (and you’re still are) been exposed.

For those that don’t understand, in capital letters” LIMITED TALKS, SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE" said big daddy. Ahtisari lite as some call it sound like "LIMITED TALKS, SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE".
As for the international law that some of you are mentioning, this is a boomerang to Serbia breaking every single one.
So people, don’t forget that Kosova is a country open for everyone that accepts the new reality.
Serbians living abroad: Don’t put petrol to fire with your comments. Reconciliation process has begun. It’s a long and painful process. We K-Albanians and Serbs are working on it and doing very well without your support. Stay away and live your life in UK, USA as their citizen. After all ,you are not going to live in Kosova or Serbia, so keep your comment that are supported from housewife’s and pensioner for yourself. People of Kosova know better that suit them.

Dear Cvele,
This "part of your country" that the name is Kosova has been occupied from Serbia, originally never has been serbian land, if you check the property documentation even during Turkish Empery 95% of the land has been albanian property. In other hand the Ahtisari Plan has not been prepared only because you don't like that plan, but because has been based in the truth and because kosovars deserves the independence. During 1989-1999 kosovars were excluded from any institution of Serbia and no job for kosovars, no education, military repression, murdering and so on... 1999 the regime of your country wanted to through out of Kosova all albanians (how you can explain this?) So these are just couple of facts that you will never get back Kosova... and finally I just wanted to add that if you reach to change the UN plan then really you will win the War against the World! Strange! isn't it?

Cvele;
Part of your state. Hm, good at least you admited that Kosova was part of your state but not your country. There is a big difference , wouldn't you say so, becasue a state can anex parts of other countries and incorporate it within the state.
Can you tell me how you plan on preventing Kosova's Indepndence?
Nikolo,
In Kosova case here is no such thing as orthodox vs. muslims, you are dead wrong because Albanian nation is made of three main religoins(catholic,muslim and orthodox)

I spoke but I think dear readers [you] only read a part of it. Equal rights and equal status---either both parties are independent or nothing at all.

Serbs seem to be so ready for a compromise but yet when the words for EQUAL RIGHTS and de-segragation comes up, it gives you shudder. Kosovars are ready for equal treatment if you look at Presheva-Valley the Kosovars stopped boycotting because they were given equality, so now the real issue is are you ready to treat everyone the same? Are you ready to stop nationalizing but start building a better future, not under serbia or Kosova but under a new entity?

Balkan is the backbone of Europe and yet everyone is fighting.

That's my opinion! Like it or hate it, you are going to have to accept the fact that you both are neighbors with flaws and no CHINA wall is going to seperate both your cultures, because in the end we're all people whether you're by origin Albanian, Serbian, Roma, Egyptian, Bosnian, Croatian, or Cerna Gora.

{Pavarsi}

Its too bad that people from Serbia have the same opinion about Kosovo as they did before 1999 nothing has changed.
Cvele you and your politicians should wake up from the sleep and see that for more than 8 years Serbia has no legal influence over Kosovo.
Kosovo Independent just the matter of time .
Peace to All

"Mr. Raqi,

Would you have any objections to partition? Or any other creative solutions to the Kosovo crisis? There are many other options that have not been explored yet.

I understand your desire to rule yourselves, we Serbs feel the same way as our people are also split between a number of countries. We should focus on our common interests and not what divides us.

Let us work together to find a peaceful way of negotiating a proper settlement that provides for a positive precedent in the region for finalizing all the various territorial disputes.

I have yet to hear a logical argument why all of Kosovo should be independent instead of a partition plan.
(Matthew, Tuesday, 10 July, 2007, 19:25"

Walter, we would not have any objection in partition if the serbs would not have also , let's start with Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo valley first , then we speak of partition of Kosovo, agreed?
The best solution it is we will be two very peacfull naighbours, we can still work together economically, and all other state issues in betwen, however we will respect each other borders, and everybody would be happy.
I also know that the serbs wanted to rule not only them selves, they wanted to rule all ex-YU, they got even Rublika Srbsaka in Bosnia, where they get the chance to rule them selves, but with a condition that never anymore, any of other nationality would have to be affraid or worried of a rise of a serbian nationalism.
But the difference from Republika Srbska, and Kosovo , and the most logical point which you are asking for, is that Republika serbsa , was taken by force, masacars , ethnic clansing, never figured before in any map of any ex YU, however Kosovo was the constituiv unit with all the rights which Serbia has ( even seccion right ) in ex YU. The other fact is there nowhere in the world , ( which your politicans so eager speak of precedent), a population populates more then 90 % of its territory.So those should be enough facts for you, and again, the time when you do not think anymore "all the serbs in one country " or "serbija do Tokija" then really is chance of compromise, the one compromise I told you earlier, be good naighbours, and respect each other, but with those words of posters here, or any of your politicans, you do not respect anything albanian, you wanted even to destroy everything albanian, do you have any idea, how many families you have destroyed in Kosovo?
Now tell me you logical point , why Kosovo should choose to live under serbian border, when all way are leading to its independence?

Vojislav,
You sound like the voix of reason. I hope that Cvele, Jovan, Princip and Kate read your post.

Albano I am not sure why you address the issue of division of Kosovo to me since I never advocated such a plan. If I had it my way all the Balkans would be one country but that would be like herding cats. In a Catholic part of Herzegovina that I visited once some families had 15 to 20 children and the land that they lived on was already divided and re-divided that it was no longer able to support the original family.
Your comments about Bosnia and Herzegovina (B & H) are simply not supported by evidence; the problem with your post is that you let your heart rule your head. You say that we will respect each other’s borders but you have no problem altering borders now and in the future to suit your interpretation of history. If you examine land registry in Kosovo and B & H you will see clearly who held the land in fee simple. Serbs and Croats in B & H were farmers while Muslim Serbs and Croats were administrators living in cities, consequently the majority of the land was held by the Christians. People on this post have written and provided primary evidence but you ignore all that since it does not suit your thesis. The same thing was true in Kosovo during the Turkish occupation the number of Serbian families in Kosovo vastly outnumber Albanian familiars. Look at the archives and you will have your primary source. One of the first things that the Croat nationalists burned in Dubrovnik was the library in the Orthodox church in Dubrovnik which had all the primary evidence concerning the origin of the people in Konavle and the surrounding areas and how these people were forcefully converted to Catholicism by the Jesuits. Nationalists like you always destroy or fabricate evidence that does not reflect their view of history.
Serbs wanted to rule over the others is one more fabrication of facts. Who was in charge of Yugoslavia when it fell apart, certainly not Serbs? You need to look at who was in the diplomatic core, who headed the armed forces and the interior ministries and if you are honest you will see proportionate to population the Serbs were underrepresented in every category. When Slovenia split illegally the Slovenian representative (his name evades me) wanted an all out suppression of the insurrection and it was the Serbs that opposed it.
I have lived in the West since 1952 and always saw myself as a Yugoslav since I was brought up in a home where Serbs, Croats, Albanians and Muslims socialized together and I never saw this nationalism which comes from your pen. I am speaking here of the older generation that came to Canada in the 1920’s. I started too meet the new arrivals the children of the nationalists who escaped in the 1960’s. These were mostly children of the Ustasa families. At that time I was introduced to their agenda. They organized secret cells, killed anyone who was a representative of Yugoslavia, supported hijacking of airliners, killed Yugoslav diplomats and even sent armed groups (1972 I believe) into Yugoslavia expecting to start a revolution. Welcome to Kosovo 1970 to the present.
As to Republika Srpska much of what you write is not supported by evidence. Bosnia has a “Viceroy” that dictates who can run for political office, what can be published, what laws can be enacted. Bosnia is a colony of NATO just like Kosovo. We all know how the events unfolded in Bosnia and who did what. Milosevic in a radio transmission played at the Hague tells Karadjic he must do everything to prevent war. This was a CIA recording and you sir blame the Serbs for what followed. I blame the religious zealot Isetbegovich who subscribes to dressing women in bee keepers outfits in 40 degree + heat and introducing Sharia Law invented by some Camel herder in the Middle Ages and you sir tell the Serbs to move into the 21st century, get real.

Vojislav,

if you are as you say then you will have plenty of reasons to espouse why Kosovo & metohija should be retained especially following the same criteria as set out by the badinter commission which did not recognise anything but 6 republics in the Former Yugoslav state - Kosovo & Metohija was and is a province of Serbia. This was used to enforce the sovereignity of other Republics of former Yugoslavia most notably Croatia - so on simple equality is a starting point would you not agree?

"we would not have any objection in partition if the serbs would not have also , let's start with Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo valley first , then we speak of partition of Kosovo, agreed?(albano, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 13:42)"
Albano, I actually support a regional solution as you seem to suggest, it would of course be a net gain for Serbs as we would have to include RS and Krajina.
"I also know that the serbs wanted to rule not only them selves, they wanted to rule all ex-YU"
Completely false analogy. Serbs only fought in those areas where traditionally we were an abused minority in the recent past (WWII). The fact that there was no major conflicts in Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro proves this point. It was not our desire to rule others, but our desire not to be abused again that led to the wars. Maybe Milosevic wanted more power and to be the next Tito, but that certainly was not the wish of the average Serb farmer who just didn't want to end up in Jasenovac. We were all taken advantage of by Milosevic, his economic policies hurt the Serbian people greatly and were only designed to further his own lust for power.
You're quick to point out the suffering caused by Serbs, yet seem to completely ignore the fact that the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims in Kosovo mirrors the population identically. If you are to use the "Humanitarian" argument to support Kosovo independence, then you must also support partition for the same reasons. To do otherwise is hypocritical at best.
I personally do not see your statements as a logical objection to partition.

Walter,

You've just asked if the division it would be considered as an option , so I brought it up with a compromise.
You are right, within a civilised world there could have been an Ballkan country , however we still have very and I mean it very uncivilised nations living in Ballkan who did not want there to be one Ballkan,they wanted wars, they wanted to rule over it, and I know for sure that you might know better then me why .
You are again right when it comes to division of catholic families land, but they wanted to feel that , to be boss in their own, and with good thinking ( the same thinking EU is doing), they can again reunite, how ever , everyone will know that is its own boss.
And Walter, you guys are really piece of work, if we still would be in the 19th centry , your policy will go through, however , that time is gone, Serbia played enough by those rules, but today, there is not anymore the chance to convince the world how bad were you treated from other nations, the world became to small for the people on it, to see it, and know that the people as you , still try to make Milosevic inocent or maybe even a hero, so what the world should think of you then?
The time for playing as a victimised serb is over, becouse according to you, maybe Adam was a serb or orthodox or wahtever, but buddy , you have to look further in history, check wikipedia under migration of slavic people and you will see where did you belong, so do not came to me or anybody else with your traditions, or inocence. do you know what your "proud" army moto was during the killing of inocent civilians in Kosovo, I'll tell you ,:
"one village a day keeps NATO away", but they have thought wrong, and you know.
You, Walter , can even today think as an Yugoslav ( south slavic ) , becouse you are one, but how in the hell should I think to be an Yugoslav, when I am an albanian, who how could I call myself something that made my life to hell?
So you speak with so much hate about all other nations in Ballkan , who has muslim people in their population, does not your religion tells you to be tolerant.

Nick how do you do it?

How do you still convince yourself that Kosovo will be independent? You do of course know we are now in the middle of July 2007? And that next year there are elections in the USA, further more China is presiding chief at the UN now? And that PM Brown in England is going to slowly distance himself from Bush or suffer the same popularity Blair had. You have of course heard from China that many of the BIG powers no longer support independence for Kosovo, and that Montenegro, Slovenia, Croatia, as well as Bosnia all said they will not support unilateral declared independence. The fact that Kosovo is still not independent must be tearing you apart? Why not spare yourself all this self inflicted grief and false expectation for something that will never happen and become a sensible and productive Serbian citizen who actually offers possible solutions to problems.

Albano it was the Serbs that proposed a Balkan Union. It was the Croats that championed the creation of Yugoslavia, but always there is this God thing is on my side and get in the way of good ideas. When I say these things about Muslims I am not saying this about the people I am saying this about the ideology and practice of all organized religions. Religion preaches tolerance but the imam, the priest and the pop speak from the pulpit “take up the sword” and the brainwashed masses follow because of some sort of promise of eternal life. By telling me to look at “wikipedia” you tell me that you don’t read anything of consequence. If you quote a scholarly journal I may go to it but I can read material like that in the wikipedia at my dentist’s office. It is a tragedy that people were killed in Kosovo. Read Albanian and Kosovo newspapers and you will see new calls for bombs to be thrown into cafes just to kill more kids whose idea of the world was a Big Mac and designer jeans. When I think of Yugoslavia I think of it with an Albanian President and when you can think of Kosovo with a Roma or Serb President we will be on common ground. Either you don’t understand my comments when you write that I “speak with so much hate about all other nations in Ballkan” or you simply are blinded by religion not to see its injustices. I speak of all religions here who are intolerant be they Christian or Muslim.

Walter ,
Sorry buddy , but you contradict yourself so much , you are speaking of Yugoslavia , with an albanian president as that were Serbia itself, come on now, imagine Serbia choosing for president a muslim slavic, from Sancak, or a hungarian from Vojvodina, or an albanian from Presevo, or a roma from anywhere else in Serbia, tha would be a real democratic Serbia, wouldn't it?However , in the other side, refering to an albanian yugoslav president, you are just proving my point , that Serbia and Kosovo , had the same rights as constituiv units in the yugoslav federation, so in case that other units could declare independency, why can Kosovo not do it?
and by the way , I dont know of any religious war anywhere in ex republics of Yugoslavia, exept one, when people from Serbia, leaded by their archbishop Artemije, go to celebrate the 600 yrs old , lost war, in one different country now, to show how good orthodox are they , even if you will not exept that, that wasn't a serb war only, it was a Ballkan war , where all the nations of Ballkan, were united against otomans, but noone else want to celebrate a lost war becouse of dignity and proudnes,but the serbs.
You say you don't speak bad and with hate against the other nations, but you do buddy, read your comment from before for Izebegovic and you will see it, and we know much better that there was not in question protecting serbian farmers , but it was an ethnic cleansing, or maybe the bosnians in Srebrenica just killed themselves ( I am sure you will say yes to that too).
You are speaking about a burned church in Dubrovnik, it might be , I have no idea, but in the other side, I can confirm to you that many churches in Kosovo, are not build by serbs, they were there before serbs came to Ballkan( or maybe you want to say , that since God made the humans , you serbs were on that soil ).
And for sure I can confirm you even better that albanians, did not have the luxury to make any religious war , or atempt for one, becouse they were fighting for their freedom, for long time now, or maybe you would tell me now, that serbian army and paramiltary ( with very sofisticated, JNA weapons ) , saved albanian orthodox or catholics, becouse it was in war only with muslim albanians?
Come on buddy, it just not working, the war since 1990 it was serbian foult , that the people were brainwashed from the Milosevic & Co. proaganda, I would understand that for a short period , but what I do not understand , is how can people been for so long brainwashed? You guys must accept that that era is over , it will not be going back where it was, EVER.

ALBANO: First of all I was not educated by Milosevic or in the Yugoslav tradition. I attended Yugoslav schools until I was 10 years old. In public, as a child we sang songs to Tito like “friend Tito the white violet you are loved by all the young people” and in private we sang “friend Tito has diarrhea in his pants”. As a student in Canada we received an education where English traditions were not questioned, nor did we question English contribution to the welfare of the colonial people. This rote learning of education changed at university and later in my career where emphasis was on questioning, evaluation and analysis. The emphasis is on the source and since we seldom come into contact with first hand documents we are influenced buy someone else’s interpretation of those documents and sometimes this interpretation gets farther and farther from the truth with each repetition, so it is very important to ask who benefits from this interpretation . We must also ask if the historian has studied the source first hand and considered opinions of others who have written on this issue. Teaching of history in the Balkans remains rote learning without interpretation and without looking at cause and effect. I understand that educators from all the Balkan countries are getting together to attempt and reform the way history is taught. The stumbling block remains the leaders who have a nationalistic agenda and who do not want their citizens to question.
As I said we will have something in common when you and the Serbian people can accept a Kosovo Albanian as President of Serbia and when you can think of Kosovo with a Roma or Serb President. From your post I can see that we have very little in common since you are like many who speak of democracy but refuse to accept the principle of democracy where people are elected on the basis of ability. The only candidate for president of USA who is guarded by the CIA is Barack Obama because many Americans cannot see a black man as their equal.
You seem to interpret history to suit yourself. Kosovo was never a republic of Yugoslavia and even if it had been the constitution did not permit seceding from the union. Your claim that “constituiv units in the yugoslav federation” had a right to secede is not correct. This was done illegally and against international Law. Well informed poster has written reams on this issue. It suffices to say that NATO violated its own charter and International law in regards to their illegal attack against a sovereign nation.
Serbs lost much with the defeat by the Ottomans as did Albanians and other Balkan people. Art, literature and law of the Serbian people died with the Battle of Kosovo but it did give a push to Renaissance art literature and law. We can all learn from our failures. Kosovo for Serbia is a burning torch reminding Europe of its failure to protect Europe against enslavement by the Ottomans. This has nothing to do with pride but with bondage. Britain Celebrates the Battle of Hastings.while the Israelis Remember the Holocaust and the Irish celebrate the Battle of Caledon all event where a people suffered defeats at the hands of invaders.
Albano you write that I speak badly of Izetbegovich. Please quote my passages as I quote yours and we can debate if what I write is true or false. Alija Izetbegovich is a religious zelot who “joined the pro-Nazi Young Muslims in Nazi-occupied Sarajevo in 1943. He helped recruit members of the "SS Handzar Division." He worked with Hitler’s intelligence service (ABWER and GESTAPO).” Albano you need to read his 'Islamska Deklaracija,' p. 22) where he writes [...] There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf…and the state should be an expression …of the religion. ..." so pleas is there some other hero of yours that I have offended.
Albano so churches in Kosovo were built by Albanians. This is a question by the way. How do you explain Old Slavonic script on most frescos in the churches that date back to the ninth century? If you are so bent on religion why do you reject your Christian past? Just the well that you do, now do the right thing and reject your present belief and you might be free to reason why “one man’s patriot is another man’s terrorist”.
Albno I am not your “buddy”. You claim in your post that you don’t know about certain things. Admission of not knowing is a good starting point to learning since “little learning is a dangerous thing” because “what a weak head with strongest bias rules, Is pride, the never-failing vice of fools.” (Alexander Pope)

Walter,
I can see you are not educated by Milosveic, but worse, you were probably educate , by Vasa Cubrilovic & Co.
However , in Canada you might have learn to respect the english colonials, but for sure Balkan is not Canada, it is just Balkan, were so many unjust is done, so many killings.
The albanians from Kosovo, they do not want to be presidnet of Serbia, let the serbian citizens decide who they gona choose for president ( but as we see, they still are not taking the right direction, they still think that ultrantionalists from Serbia will save them or make their country better ), kosovo albanians, would choose their own president , who ever provides better solution to them it does not matter their national heritage or religion, it will just matter that he or she should be a Kosovo citizen, and of course we shouldn't have anything in common, when you will think that only serb democracy is a good democracy.
I dont know who is interpreting the history to suit himself, me or you , but in case you dont know, I can send you a copy of constitution of ex YU from 1974.However, by you saying that NATO violated its own charter of international law and doing illegal things against Serbia, you want to confirm that killing of more then 16000 inocent civilians, and expelling around 1 Mil people, looting and burning their goods from serbian military and paramilatry units, was legaly done, becouse serbs " the havenly nation " has the right to do that?
Oh ,that why the serbs want to celebrate a lost war , becouse they want to appologise to Europe, that the serbs couldn't protect their freedom, human rights or religion, ...? But what I know for sure is that an albanian, called George Castrioti Scenderbeg , is called from the Rome itself as a Protector of Christianity, that was a man , who together with his albanian fellows put a border to Otomans, for 25 yrs long as long as he ruled,( even if he was to many times betrayed from serbian countrapart) after him it was needed 500 yrs to get rid of otoman rulers.
So if Kosovo should be Serbias torch ( maybe that why the serbs wanted so bad to burn it..)...or whatever , it is Kosovars home, and noone, can play with Kosovos fate, for no reason whatsoever.
You want to quote a lot , I can see it, but it seams that Izetbegovic , had a feeling, that Srebrenica would happend, when he wrote : "There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions...."
and you did not offend me, becouse I see that you do not quote anything productive.
As for the churches, the slavonic encryption, you think is hard to write any encryption in allready builded walls, for Serbia it was not hard at all to build the whole church in property of university in Pristina in 1995.
You've said .."If you are so bent on religion why do you reject your Christian past?"
I will just quote Victor Hygo,for you :
"When I was born, first I was born as human being, then as a french , and then as catholic"... but you might not understand that , even you try to quote A.Pope.
However , I am not so smart as you that for only 10 yrs in Yugoslavia, knows much better then the people who lived there about their constitutions, or churches, but what I can recomend to you is , read more history books not only serbian history books.

I dont do politics but i read what a Serbian leaders do not understand reality same as serbian people living in kosovo, There is no way that Kosovors will ever be able to be ruled by Serbia, its just way it has happen 8 years ago, I dont understand How on erth serbian leader have face to demand kosove to be part of serbia , when people of kosovo do not want to be with serbia, this is not wish of leaders of kosovo to hold new talks with serbs to achive an agreement on kosovo future , we must ask people of kosovo what they want to do thrue referendum, this is way to live in peace for people of Ballkans not dicide in Russia or Usa. I think we need to talk to serbia of course we want a good reliation with our neighburs but not for status of Kosova , this is not issue that we can agree with Serbs. Kosova Must be idenpendent and all people in kosova must have same rights of living , same rights of education, living on civilized world.I really do not Understand you MR Samerzic i think you should work in kosovos future and work for serbs in kosovo , you are more concentrated in serbias problems than ours.

Raqi
Equal rights... YES
Independent state... NO
We cannot give part of our state. No country in the world would, so why should we.

Here is the EU plan for the Balkans.All 7 Cefta countries join by 2010.Kosovo/Republika Srbska/Transdniester/Albanian Macedonia join as parts of Serbian/Bosnian/Moldovan/Macedonian confederations in 2010 or as unilaterally self declared states(legally unrecognized ala Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus)never.Which one is more appealing?No case is unique or more deserving than any other and this argument has played out its course.

Mr. Raqi,

Would you have any objections to partition? Or any other creative solutions to the Kosovo crisis? There are many other options that have not been explored yet.

I understand your desire to rule yourselves, we Serbs feel the same way as our people are also split between a number of countries. We should focus on our common interests and not what divides us.

Let us work together to find a peaceful way of negotiating a proper settlement that provides for a positive precedent in the region for finalizing all the various territorial disputes.

I have yet to hear a logical argument why all of Kosovo should be independent instead of a partition plan.

To Cvele and Others,
Unfortunately for you and fortunately for us we (you and I) are NOT the ones that will make that decision. Let’s see some facts:
1. Kosovo – Serbian land, NEVER - but yes, was kept by force since,
2. Serbians – Always a minority (maximum 6%) despite all colonization during centuries,
3. 1999 – For twenty (20) years World looked at what your government and you as nation are capable of doing – and was forced to come you down – unfortunately with bombs.
4. Today – Kosovo continues its life (with Serbs) that are NOT forced in enclaves and who are free to move and speak their language – If you need convincing come to Kosovo and see for yourself.
5. Tomorrow – Kosovo WILL be independent (as you are)
And in the END I don’t think that is necessary for Serbia to give away all its resources (NIS, EPS) to Russia just to try to keep something that has LOST and cannot win back. I think it is better for you to keep those resources and feed your people.

Seems to me Mr. Tadic got the message, he says:

"Serbia -fought- for its southern province with all diplomatic, legal and peaceful means, and voiced opposition to any unilateral recognition of Kosovo’s independence."

1. He speaks in past tense. Which means he understands that what could be done was done and now its time to let go.

2. He does not want unilateral recognition, because he understand in that case Serbs losse even more.

Raqi, to make one thing clear:

you can live there if you accept that it is Serbia. if you do not, then you have all freedom to leave, if you don´t like that.
but I call you to stay and build up a society that can be called european at all, WITHIN Serbia.

if in a house with six appartments all six tenants say it´s "their" house, that doesn´t matter at all, since it is ONLY the OWNER who can say that it is his house.

I recently heard the Serbian song that won the euro contest and although I did not understand the words it sounds bella.I think the western lobbyists pushing for an illegal solution to the Kosovo situation are going to have to adopt the Stones' song "I can't get no satisfaction" very soon as their "national anthem."

You know, Kosovars don't seem to realize how dependent they are towards Serbia. The Serbs could cut off the power frid and you'd have no power. Lets not kid ourselves, first Kosovo, then Macedonia, etc etc...then you guys will want parts of Greece too right? And then Ceku comes out and threatens war the other day if no deadline is set? Got news for you, the US and UK are too bogged down in Iraq and don't think Putin will just let you guys roll over Mitrovica. You have much to learn in the wolrd of Realpolitik...

we must realize that serbian people do not want their own, they want someone else's country, Kosova was part of Yugoslavia not Serbia until 1989, when milosevic occupied Kosova.
Of course Kosova will be indepedent. Kosova belongs to Kosovars not to serbia or albania, leave us alone

You want a COMPROMISE?

"Resolution 1823"

Kosova and Serbia both independent provinces within Newgoslavia.

Either Kosova or Serbia can declare independence after 50 years (2057).

Presidency and position of prime minister is held on bases of vise versa (one year serbia, one year Kosova).

One seat in UN.

Two different armies + police controlled by prime minister.

Prime minister can't dissolve the parliament at his wish. Areas with more than 25% ethnicity get automatic decentralization (some form).

No [official] state language or religion.

Harsh anti-racist laws and anti-segregation laws.

----------------------------

Agree to that, to EQUALITY. It doesn't have to be called yugoslavia or newslavia; it can be called Sersova (serbia + kosova).

The Kosovo Albanian leadership showed it's true color when they supported and participated in the wars against Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia. They participated in ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serbs in "Operation Storm" and they had many para-military units fighting along the side of Croatians and Bosnian Muslims. So the argument that the Serbs carried out atrocities against their own citizens is a lie, when those Albanians never considered themselves citizens of Serbia. All they wanted to do was annex it to a greater Albania.
The Serbs did what every nation on earth has the right to do and that is to use it's military to protect it's borders against forgein or domestic enemies. This was nothing but a civil war and we Americans should not have intervened.

I am an American, and love my country, but I would love to see these diplomat bullies get a big slap in the face. The arrogance of the US is embarrassing. How dare they dictate what borders should be redrawn in Europe. Did God come down and give them this right. I see so clearly now why we Americans are hated in most of the world. I am ashamed of US policies but, I am just a taxpayer that enables our politicians to do their dirty work. American politicians preach democracy, but believe me, so much of it has been taken away from the US populace.

Cvele...for ur information Kosova has never been a part of Serbia..this is just a fake claim that serbs ..Kosova has been a constituant unite of former-Yugoslavia...Yugoslavia was the only place where all serbs could live in one land..thenx to their leaders they abolish that rule...now Yugoslavia is earased from the political map...and my dear friends of serbian origine..KOSOVA CAN`T BE AN INTEGRAL PART OF SERBIA it never was and it never will be...not even, if an Angel will come to power in belgrade will convince us to...Period!!

The US is really no honest broker. It conveniently glosses over the fact that there is no incentive for Pristina to negotiate SERIOUSLY if the outcome is predetermined. Luckily it is not the only member with the veto at the UNSC.

Since we are on the subject of honesty, the German intelligence service BND has information that authorities in Pristina paid for the services of UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari is true. The Global Information System (GIS), an intelligence data service meant exclusively for governments was quoted.

equal rights?

would you give Albanians votes in parliament? would you let an Albanian be Serbia's prime minister, or even president?

I really don't think so

Independence is better. Let's go separate ways, PLEASE.

not only that, but Albanians do not want your "equal rights"

keep your lovely rights in Serbia.

Albanians should insist on referendum! The will of people should be heard! And should the democratic world be against their will, then, I guess world's democratic governments are no better than Serbia's democracy.

Referendum is a Must!

Arrogance will not bring you anywere,and will not change the reality.
however im going to reply in your style!

EQUAL RIGHTS...YES
INDEPENDENCE...YES

Its my word against yours!

Cvele, equal rights in independent Kosovo

I am a Serb living in the north of England. I was born here as my late father fought against Tito in the Second World War and fled after Britain and the US, together with Stalin, handed Yugoslavia to the communists.

The history of Kosovo starts long before our infamous 1389 and it will continue long into the future. The question is how it will continue. I was brought up with our history being taught to me on a very realistic scale. I learned many historical faults regarding our Serbian history, such as the fact that our glorious Kosovo has been the victim of such mal-propaganda and misinformation over the last many years that it is very difficult for any Serb to understand the true situation, let alone a foreigner.

It is a fact that under Tito, communist Yugoslavia prospered. It prospered at the cost of both Serbia and also Kosovo. The seeds of the present Albanian problem were indeed sewn by dear old Broz as he opened the floodgates whilst beating down any Serb that protested. The documentary evidence is there for all to see…. If we want to!

Today were are in the full swing of losing Kosovo and all I see is the same old divide in the Serbs as there has always been in our history. On one side we have the “children of Belgrade” wandering if the new jeans they buy should be of this make or that whilst at the same time we have the Kostunica brigade hanging onto the right wing faction of a fast faltering Serbian Orthodox Church, spitting out the same rhetoric as they have for the last few years but doing nothing to aid any diplomatic solution. And why is this so?

I have heard nobody from any side of the Serbian lobby tell us why we should not lose Kosovo. Yes, it makes the blood boil. Yes, the history proves that we have as much right to Kosovo as the authentic Kosovo Albanians but it stops there. Nobody has produced any sort of plan or demographic structure to a future Kosovo that protects the rights of both peoples. All we seem to be doing is demonstrating on a note of emotion and not with any political skill. At the same time any neutral remark that is made by a Serb regarding Kosovo is then shouted down in public by some right wing body, either from the church or from one of the more vocal parties.

I have no solution folks – but I do know that as long as we avoid the heart of the reasons and legitimacies as to why we should hold on to Kosovo, this is going to be a long game of tennis, with the ball bouncing from one side of the court to the other. That is until the next round of fighting comes along to take us back to square one again. And it will!

Vojislav Dukic

To: Cvele

As for Kosovo yes you want Kosovo but you want it without Albanians, and this is the reason why Kosovo should be Independent.
Mr Cvele have you ever been to Kosovo and seen how we lived before 1999 than you would understand why we want Independency.
Peace to All

Raqi the serbian's in Kosovo do wont to be a part of Serbia. I would rather prefer Kosovo to be split up like Cyprus which has been split up between Greece and Turkey. I guess its a another fight between Orthdox vrs Muslims.

Cvele, there are no equal rights without independence, every body know this, I am sure you know and will admit. It is only a matter of time. All we are sure.

Cvele, you must be someone very important decision-making factor in Serbia. Even disguised under Cvele, you sound as the one who is in charge. My assumption is based on your decisive stand on the quantity of rights you’re willing to share, that is approach of those openhanded towards the rest who have come in this world not that privileged to make decisions on their own.
However, you’ll be invited to celebrate in the centre of Prishtinё once we get independence, it will come about sooner or later, believe me. By the way, I’m able to understand your feelings about all this, though I just want to let you know that the bad feelings are as a consequence of a long propaganda you had (and you’re still are) been exposed.

For those that don’t understand, in capital letters” LIMITED TALKS, SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE" said big daddy. Ahtisari lite as some call it sound like "LIMITED TALKS, SUPERVISED INDEPENDENCE".
As for the international law that some of you are mentioning, this is a boomerang to Serbia breaking every single one.
So people, don’t forget that Kosova is a country open for everyone that accepts the new reality.
Serbians living abroad: Don’t put petrol to fire with your comments. Reconciliation process has begun. It’s a long and painful process. We K-Albanians and Serbs are working on it and doing very well without your support. Stay away and live your life in UK, USA as their citizen. After all ,you are not going to live in Kosova or Serbia, so keep your comment that are supported from housewife’s and pensioner for yourself. People of Kosova know better that suit them.

Dear Cvele,
This "part of your country" that the name is Kosova has been occupied from Serbia, originally never has been serbian land, if you check the property documentation even during Turkish Empery 95% of the land has been albanian property. In other hand the Ahtisari Plan has not been prepared only because you don't like that plan, but because has been based in the truth and because kosovars deserves the independence. During 1989-1999 kosovars were excluded from any institution of Serbia and no job for kosovars, no education, military repression, murdering and so on... 1999 the regime of your country wanted to through out of Kosova all albanians (how you can explain this?) So these are just couple of facts that you will never get back Kosova... and finally I just wanted to add that if you reach to change the UN plan then really you will win the War against the World! Strange! isn't it?

Cvele;
Part of your state. Hm, good at least you admited that Kosova was part of your state but not your country. There is a big difference , wouldn't you say so, becasue a state can anex parts of other countries and incorporate it within the state.
Can you tell me how you plan on preventing Kosova's Indepndence?
Nikolo,
In Kosova case here is no such thing as orthodox vs. muslims, you are dead wrong because Albanian nation is made of three main religoins(catholic,muslim and orthodox)

I spoke but I think dear readers [you] only read a part of it. Equal rights and equal status---either both parties are independent or nothing at all.

Serbs seem to be so ready for a compromise but yet when the words for EQUAL RIGHTS and de-segragation comes up, it gives you shudder. Kosovars are ready for equal treatment if you look at Presheva-Valley the Kosovars stopped boycotting because they were given equality, so now the real issue is are you ready to treat everyone the same? Are you ready to stop nationalizing but start building a better future, not under serbia or Kosova but under a new entity?

Balkan is the backbone of Europe and yet everyone is fighting.

That's my opinion! Like it or hate it, you are going to have to accept the fact that you both are neighbors with flaws and no CHINA wall is going to seperate both your cultures, because in the end we're all people whether you're by origin Albanian, Serbian, Roma, Egyptian, Bosnian, Croatian, or Cerna Gora.

{Pavarsi}

Its too bad that people from Serbia have the same opinion about Kosovo as they did before 1999 nothing has changed.
Cvele you and your politicians should wake up from the sleep and see that for more than 8 years Serbia has no legal influence over Kosovo.
Kosovo Independent just the matter of time .
Peace to All

"Mr. Raqi,

Would you have any objections to partition? Or any other creative solutions to the Kosovo crisis? There are many other options that have not been explored yet.

I understand your desire to rule yourselves, we Serbs feel the same way as our people are also split between a number of countries. We should focus on our common interests and not what divides us.

Let us work together to find a peaceful way of negotiating a proper settlement that provides for a positive precedent in the region for finalizing all the various territorial disputes.

I have yet to hear a logical argument why all of Kosovo should be independent instead of a partition plan.
(Matthew, Tuesday, 10 July, 2007, 19:25"

Walter, we would not have any objection in partition if the serbs would not have also , let's start with Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo valley first , then we speak of partition of Kosovo, agreed?
The best solution it is we will be two very peacfull naighbours, we can still work together economically, and all other state issues in betwen, however we will respect each other borders, and everybody would be happy.
I also know that the serbs wanted to rule not only them selves, they wanted to rule all ex-YU, they got even Rublika Srbsaka in Bosnia, where they get the chance to rule them selves, but with a condition that never anymore, any of other nationality would have to be affraid or worried of a rise of a serbian nationalism.
But the difference from Republika Srbska, and Kosovo , and the most logical point which you are asking for, is that Republika serbsa , was taken by force, masacars , ethnic clansing, never figured before in any map of any ex YU, however Kosovo was the constituiv unit with all the rights which Serbia has ( even seccion right ) in ex YU. The other fact is there nowhere in the world , ( which your politicans so eager speak of precedent), a population populates more then 90 % of its territory.So those should be enough facts for you, and again, the time when you do not think anymore "all the serbs in one country " or "serbija do Tokija" then really is chance of compromise, the one compromise I told you earlier, be good naighbours, and respect each other, but with those words of posters here, or any of your politicans, you do not respect anything albanian, you wanted even to destroy everything albanian, do you have any idea, how many families you have destroyed in Kosovo?
Now tell me you logical point , why Kosovo should choose to live under serbian border, when all way are leading to its independence?

Vojislav,
You sound like the voix of reason. I hope that Cvele, Jovan, Princip and Kate read your post.

Albano I am not sure why you address the issue of division of Kosovo to me since I never advocated such a plan. If I had it my way all the Balkans would be one country but that would be like herding cats. In a Catholic part of Herzegovina that I visited once some families had 15 to 20 children and the land that they lived on was already divided and re-divided that it was no longer able to support the original family.
Your comments about Bosnia and Herzegovina (B & H) are simply not supported by evidence; the problem with your post is that you let your heart rule your head. You say that we will respect each other’s borders but you have no problem altering borders now and in the future to suit your interpretation of history. If you examine land registry in Kosovo and B & H you will see clearly who held the land in fee simple. Serbs and Croats in B & H were farmers while Muslim Serbs and Croats were administrators living in cities, consequently the majority of the land was held by the Christians. People on this post have written and provided primary evidence but you ignore all that since it does not suit your thesis. The same thing was true in Kosovo during the Turkish occupation the number of Serbian families in Kosovo vastly outnumber Albanian familiars. Look at the archives and you will have your primary source. One of the first things that the Croat nationalists burned in Dubrovnik was the library in the Orthodox church in Dubrovnik which had all the primary evidence concerning the origin of the people in Konavle and the surrounding areas and how these people were forcefully converted to Catholicism by the Jesuits. Nationalists like you always destroy or fabricate evidence that does not reflect their view of history.
Serbs wanted to rule over the others is one more fabrication of facts. Who was in charge of Yugoslavia when it fell apart, certainly not Serbs? You need to look at who was in the diplomatic core, who headed the armed forces and the interior ministries and if you are honest you will see proportionate to population the Serbs were underrepresented in every category. When Slovenia split illegally the Slovenian representative (his name evades me) wanted an all out suppression of the insurrection and it was the Serbs that opposed it.
I have lived in the West since 1952 and always saw myself as a Yugoslav since I was brought up in a home where Serbs, Croats, Albanians and Muslims socialized together and I never saw this nationalism which comes from your pen. I am speaking here of the older generation that came to Canada in the 1920’s. I started too meet the new arrivals the children of the nationalists who escaped in the 1960’s. These were mostly children of the Ustasa families. At that time I was introduced to their agenda. They organized secret cells, killed anyone who was a representative of Yugoslavia, supported hijacking of airliners, killed Yugoslav diplomats and even sent armed groups (1972 I believe) into Yugoslavia expecting to start a revolution. Welcome to Kosovo 1970 to the present.
As to Republika Srpska much of what you write is not supported by evidence. Bosnia has a “Viceroy” that dictates who can run for political office, what can be published, what laws can be enacted. Bosnia is a colony of NATO just like Kosovo. We all know how the events unfolded in Bosnia and who did what. Milosevic in a radio transmission played at the Hague tells Karadjic he must do everything to prevent war. This was a CIA recording and you sir blame the Serbs for what followed. I blame the religious zealot Isetbegovich who subscribes to dressing women in bee keepers outfits in 40 degree + heat and introducing Sharia Law invented by some Camel herder in the Middle Ages and you sir tell the Serbs to move into the 21st century, get real.

Vojislav,

if you are as you say then you will have plenty of reasons to espouse why Kosovo & metohija should be retained especially following the same criteria as set out by the badinter commission which did not recognise anything but 6 republics in the Former Yugoslav state - Kosovo & Metohija was and is a province of Serbia. This was used to enforce the sovereignity of other Republics of former Yugoslavia most notably Croatia - so on simple equality is a starting point would you not agree?

"we would not have any objection in partition if the serbs would not have also , let's start with Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo valley first , then we speak of partition of Kosovo, agreed?(albano, Wednesday, 11 July, 2007, 13:42)"
Albano, I actually support a regional solution as you seem to suggest, it would of course be a net gain for Serbs as we would have to include RS and Krajina.
"I also know that the serbs wanted to rule not only them selves, they wanted to rule all ex-YU"
Completely false analogy. Serbs only fought in those areas where traditionally we were an abused minority in the recent past (WWII). The fact that there was no major conflicts in Slovenia, Macedonia and Montenegro proves this point. It was not our desire to rule others, but our desire not to be abused again that led to the wars. Maybe Milosevic wanted more power and to be the next Tito, but that certainly was not the wish of the average Serb farmer who just didn't want to end up in Jasenovac. We were all taken advantage of by Milosevic, his economic policies hurt the Serbian people greatly and were only designed to further his own lust for power.
You're quick to point out the suffering caused by Serbs, yet seem to completely ignore the fact that the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims in Kosovo mirrors the population identically. If you are to use the "Humanitarian" argument to support Kosovo independence, then you must also support partition for the same reasons. To do otherwise is hypocritical at best.
I personally do not see your statements as a logical objection to partition.

Walter,

You've just asked if the division it would be considered as an option , so I brought it up with a compromise.
You are right, within a civilised world there could have been an Ballkan country , however we still have very and I mean it very uncivilised nations living in Ballkan who did not want there to be one Ballkan,they wanted wars, they wanted to rule over it, and I know for sure that you might know better then me why .
You are again right when it comes to division of catholic families land, but they wanted to feel that , to be boss in their own, and with good thinking ( the same thinking EU is doing), they can again reunite, how ever , everyone will know that is its own boss.
And Walter, you guys are really piece of work, if we still would be in the 19th centry , your policy will go through, however , that time is gone, Serbia played enough by those rules, but today, there is not anymore the chance to convince the world how bad were you treated from other nations, the world became to small for the people on it, to see it, and know that the people as you , still try to make Milosevic inocent or maybe even a hero, so what the world should think of you then?
The time for playing as a victimised serb is over, becouse according to you, maybe Adam was a serb or orthodox or wahtever, but buddy , you have to look further in history, check wikipedia under migration of slavic people and you will see where did you belong, so do not came to me or anybody else with your traditions, or inocence. do you know what your "proud" army moto was during the killing of inocent civilians in Kosovo, I'll tell you ,:
"one village a day keeps NATO away", but they have thought wrong, and you know.
You, Walter , can even today think as an Yugoslav ( south slavic ) , becouse you are one, but how in the hell should I think to be an Yugoslav, when I am an albanian, who how could I call myself something that made my life to hell?
So you speak with so much hate about all other nations in Ballkan , who has muslim people in their population, does not your religion tells you to be tolerant.

Nick how do you do it?

How do you still convince yourself that Kosovo will be independent? You do of course know we are now in the middle of July 2007? And that next year there are elections in the USA, further more China is presiding chief at the UN now? And that PM Brown in England is going to slowly distance himself from Bush or suffer the same popularity Blair had. You have of course heard from China that many of the BIG powers no longer support independence for Kosovo, and that Montenegro, Slovenia, Croatia, as well as Bosnia all said they will not support unilateral declared independence. The fact that Kosovo is still not independent must be tearing you apart? Why not spare yourself all this self inflicted grief and false expectation for something that will never happen and become a sensible and productive Serbian citizen who actually offers possible solutions to problems.

Albano it was the Serbs that proposed a Balkan Union. It was the Croats that championed the creation of Yugoslavia, but always there is this God thing is on my side and get in the way of good ideas. When I say these things about Muslims I am not saying this about the people I am saying this about the ideology and practice of all organized religions. Religion preaches tolerance but the imam, the priest and the pop speak from the pulpit “take up the sword” and the brainwashed masses follow because of some sort of promise of eternal life. By telling me to look at “wikipedia” you tell me that you don’t read anything of consequence. If you quote a scholarly journal I may go to it but I can read material like that in the wikipedia at my dentist’s office. It is a tragedy that people were killed in Kosovo. Read Albanian and Kosovo newspapers and you will see new calls for bombs to be thrown into cafes just to kill more kids whose idea of the world was a Big Mac and designer jeans. When I think of Yugoslavia I think of it with an Albanian President and when you can think of Kosovo with a Roma or Serb President we will be on common ground. Either you don’t understand my comments when you write that I “speak with so much hate about all other nations in Ballkan” or you simply are blinded by religion not to see its injustices. I speak of all religions here who are intolerant be they Christian or Muslim.

Walter ,
Sorry buddy , but you contradict yourself so much , you are speaking of Yugoslavia , with an albanian president as that were Serbia itself, come on now, imagine Serbia choosing for president a muslim slavic, from Sancak, or a hungarian from Vojvodina, or an albanian from Presevo, or a roma from anywhere else in Serbia, tha would be a real democratic Serbia, wouldn't it?However , in the other side, refering to an albanian yugoslav president, you are just proving my point , that Serbia and Kosovo , had the same rights as constituiv units in the yugoslav federation, so in case that other units could declare independency, why can Kosovo not do it?
and by the way , I dont know of any religious war anywhere in ex republics of Yugoslavia, exept one, when people from Serbia, leaded by their archbishop Artemije, go to celebrate the 600 yrs old , lost war, in one different country now, to show how good orthodox are they , even if you will not exept that, that wasn't a serb war only, it was a Ballkan war , where all the nations of Ballkan, were united against otomans, but noone else want to celebrate a lost war becouse of dignity and proudnes,but the serbs.
You say you don't speak bad and with hate against the other nations, but you do buddy, read your comment from before for Izebegovic and you will see it, and we know much better that there was not in question protecting serbian farmers , but it was an ethnic cleansing, or maybe the bosnians in Srebrenica just killed themselves ( I am sure you will say yes to that too).
You are speaking about a burned church in Dubrovnik, it might be , I have no idea, but in the other side, I can confirm to you that many churches in Kosovo, are not build by serbs, they were there before serbs came to Ballkan( or maybe you want to say , that since God made the humans , you serbs were on that soil ).
And for sure I can confirm you even better that albanians, did not have the luxury to make any religious war , or atempt for one, becouse they were fighting for their freedom, for long time now, or maybe you would tell me now, that serbian army and paramiltary ( with very sofisticated, JNA weapons ) , saved albanian orthodox or catholics, becouse it was in war only with muslim albanians?
Come on buddy, it just not working, the war since 1990 it was serbian foult , that the people were brainwashed from the Milosevic & Co. proaganda, I would understand that for a short period , but what I do not understand , is how can people been for so long brainwashed? You guys must accept that that era is over , it will not be going back where it was, EVER.

ALBANO: First of all I was not educated by Milosevic or in the Yugoslav tradition. I attended Yugoslav schools until I was 10 years old. In public, as a child we sang songs to Tito like “friend Tito the white violet you are loved by all the young people” and in private we sang “friend Tito has diarrhea in his pants”. As a student in Canada we received an education where English traditions were not questioned, nor did we question English contribution to the welfare of the colonial people. This rote learning of education changed at university and later in my career where emphasis was on questioning, evaluation and analysis. The emphasis is on the source and since we seldom come into contact with first hand documents we are influenced buy someone else’s interpretation of those documents and sometimes this interpretation gets farther and farther from the truth with each repetition, so it is very important to ask who benefits from this interpretation . We must also ask if the historian has studied the source first hand and considered opinions of others who have written on this issue. Teaching of history in the Balkans remains rote learning without interpretation and without looking at cause and effect. I understand that educators from all the Balkan countries are getting together to attempt and reform the way history is taught. The stumbling block remains the leaders who have a nationalistic agenda and who do not want their citizens to question.
As I said we will have something in common when you and the Serbian people can accept a Kosovo Albanian as President of Serbia and when you can think of Kosovo with a Roma or Serb President. From your post I can see that we have very little in common since you are like many who speak of democracy but refuse to accept the principle of democracy where people are elected on the basis of ability. The only candidate for president of USA who is guarded by the CIA is Barack Obama because many Americans cannot see a black man as their equal.
You seem to interpret history to suit yourself. Kosovo was never a republic of Yugoslavia and even if it had been the constitution did not permit seceding from the union. Your claim that “constituiv units in the yugoslav federation” had a right to secede is not correct. This was done illegally and against international Law. Well informed poster has written reams on this issue. It suffices to say that NATO violated its own charter and International law in regards to their illegal attack against a sovereign nation.
Serbs lost much with the defeat by the Ottomans as did Albanians and other Balkan people. Art, literature and law of the Serbian people died with the Battle of Kosovo but it did give a push to Renaissance art literature and law. We can all learn from our failures. Kosovo for Serbia is a burning torch reminding Europe of its failure to protect Europe against enslavement by the Ottomans. This has nothing to do with pride but with bondage. Britain Celebrates the Battle of Hastings.while the Israelis Remember the Holocaust and the Irish celebrate the Battle of Caledon all event where a people suffered defeats at the hands of invaders.
Albano you write that I speak badly of Izetbegovich. Please quote my passages as I quote yours and we can debate if what I write is true or false. Alija Izetbegovich is a religious zelot who “joined the pro-Nazi Young Muslims in Nazi-occupied Sarajevo in 1943. He helped recruit members of the "SS Handzar Division." He worked with Hitler’s intelligence service (ABWER and GESTAPO).” Albano you need to read his 'Islamska Deklaracija,' p. 22) where he writes [...] There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf…and the state should be an expression …of the religion. ..." so pleas is there some other hero of yours that I have offended.
Albano so churches in Kosovo were built by Albanians. This is a question by the way. How do you explain Old Slavonic script on most frescos in the churches that date back to the ninth century? If you are so bent on religion why do you reject your Christian past? Just the well that you do, now do the right thing and reject your present belief and you might be free to reason why “one man’s patriot is another man’s terrorist”.
Albno I am not your “buddy”. You claim in your post that you don’t know about certain things. Admission of not knowing is a good starting point to learning since “little learning is a dangerous thing” because “what a weak head with strongest bias rules, Is pride, the never-failing vice of fools.” (Alexander Pope)

Walter,
I can see you are not educated by Milosveic, but worse, you were probably educate , by Vasa Cubrilovic & Co.
However , in Canada you might have learn to respect the english colonials, but for sure Balkan is not Canada, it is just Balkan, were so many unjust is done, so many killings.
The albanians from Kosovo, they do not want to be presidnet of Serbia, let the serbian citizens decide who they gona choose for president ( but as we see, they still are not taking the right direction, they still think that ultrantionalists from Serbia will save them or make their country better ), kosovo albanians, would choose their own president , who ever provides better solution to them it does not matter their national heritage or religion, it will just matter that he or she should be a Kosovo citizen, and of course we shouldn't have anything in common, when you will think that only serb democracy is a good democracy.
I dont know who is interpreting the history to suit himself, me or you , but in case you dont know, I can send you a copy of constitution of ex YU from 1974.However, by you saying that NATO violated its own charter of international law and doing illegal things against Serbia, you want to confirm that killing of more then 16000 inocent civilians, and expelling around 1 Mil people, looting and burning their goods from serbian military and paramilatry units, was legaly done, becouse serbs " the havenly nation " has the right to do that?
Oh ,that why the serbs want to celebrate a lost war , becouse they want to appologise to Europe, that the serbs couldn't protect their freedom, human rights or religion, ...? But what I know for sure is that an albanian, called George Castrioti Scenderbeg , is called from the Rome itself as a Protector of Christianity, that was a man , who together with his albanian fellows put a border to Otomans, for 25 yrs long as long as he ruled,( even if he was to many times betrayed from serbian countrapart) after him it was needed 500 yrs to get rid of otoman rulers.
So if Kosovo should be Serbias torch ( maybe that why the serbs wanted so bad to burn it..)...or whatever , it is Kosovars home, and noone, can play with Kosovos fate, for no reason whatsoever.
You want to quote a lot , I can see it, but it seams that Izetbegovic , had a feeling, that Srebrenica would happend, when he wrote : "There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions...."
and you did not offend me, becouse I see that you do not quote anything productive.
As for the churches, the slavonic encryption, you think is hard to write any encryption in allready builded walls, for Serbia it was not hard at all to build the whole church in property of university in Pristina in 1995.
You've said .."If you are so bent on religion why do you reject your Christian past?"
I will just quote Victor Hygo,for you :
"When I was born, first I was born as human being, then as a french , and then as catholic"... but you might not understand that , even you try to quote A.Pope.
However , I am not so smart as you that for only 10 yrs in Yugoslavia, knows much better then the people who lived there about their constitutions, or churches, but what I can recomend to you is , read more history books not only serbian history books.