Thanks Princip. I do find it unsettling that the US and the UK are no longer seen in the light they once were. There is so much we could do to help develop democracy around the world if we actually work with the people, rather than assuming we know what the people really want (or worse, need). I personally liked PM Blair, but I wish your new PM all the success there is.
Zoran, alright! Another Ron Paul supporter! Though I doubt he'll make it past the primaries, and my vote will go to either McCain or Guilianni, there's something about Dr. Paul that a lot of us find refreshing.
Johny, I don't know how my comments have become more radical of late since I think I've been consistant in my rhetoric, but I can't please everybody.
Joe, deep down, I think you and I share similar feelings. I supported our efforts in Iraq and I truly believed that we could not only topple Saddam's government but had the capability of giving Iraq what we helped to give Germany and Japan. I cheered when Merkel defeated Schroeder, and I was happy to see Chirac go. Believe you me, nothing annoys me more than somearmchair European pop-Marxist telling me everything wrong about my country simply because it's America. Yet at the same time, I really want my government to lead with other states, not against them. I'm not happy that Serbia has to put its faith in nondemocratic Russia to preserve its territory - that is truly a Faustian move. I'm not happy that Serbian democratic efforts are constantly sullied by nationalists playing the Kosovo card because the US is not seen to be playing even-handedly. My taxes go to support the USA and I'm proud of that, but as taxpayers, you and I are technically our elected representatives bosses, and as such, I want my money and my votes to hold my leaders more accountable.
And for the record, I'll be celebrating when Hugo Chavez is finally overthrown.
My first observation: just because so many people critisize the US in the world it does not mean that they are right. They would like to see a very week US, a US with a collapsed economy. They are not friends but ennemies. Chirac and Schroeder were good examples. I used to fight Europeans, in majority French on Figaro's very big forum until it got closed down. Those people expressed openly there desire to see the EU becoming #1 world power and the US as a 6th or 7th power before a complete collapse.
Mike, when you see so much bad will, I would say evil you have to fight and not agree with them.
Second observation: I do not go on vacation in countries, which are virulent anti-americans. If I hear unreasonable critisism of my country I shoot back. I do it also in Hungary, where I go every year.
About sources of info: no I do not watch Fox News, practically no TV and no radio talk-shows. But I have to go.
Joe, you need to read very carefully mikes' comments, you can't accuse him of being anti-American like you do everybody else who does not agree with you. He speaks very well for all of us who are fed up with the direction our country is going in, and according to the latest poll a majority of Americans feel that way. Since you are in the minority, maybe you need to stop with that arrogance, "your either with us or you are with the terrorists" a quote from our beloved commander GWB. Just for the record, I do not support Hillary. If I had to pick a candidate it would be Ron Paul.
I keep hearing from all the Serbian posters here about a negotiated solution. However in 99% of these "negotiated" solutions they suggest, the "solution" which is supposed to be negotiated is the solution the Serb government offers, that is no independence. I cannot help it but ask, what incentives do Albanians have to start these negotiations knowing from the start that the other side will never agree with independence.The logical answer I arrive at is that they have no incentives whatsoever to even start negotiating since they already know that the final position of the other side will not change.
Then I try to stop thinking as an Albanian and try my best to think as a Serb and ask. What incentive do the Serbs have if they know from the start that the other side ( the Albanians) have ruled autonomy, and that independence is their final position? Again the logical answer I arrive is, the Serbs have no incentives whatsoever to negotiate with someone knowing that the final position is gonna be independence at all costs.
After I arrive at these answers it is very clear to me that there will never be a negotiated solution between the two sides. In fact if it is left up to us, our great great grandchildren will be posting similar posts about Kosovo/a's final solution.
It is unnecessary to be patriotic and talk about how it is the fault of a bunch of 2 million Albanians or how it is the fault of a bunch of Serbs. The truth is right in front of us, and that truth is that nobody be it Russia or the USA can make us agree on whether it is going to be independence or autonomy. So it is a utopic view to think that we are gonna talk and somehow magically after all these centuries we are going to agree with each other. That is why I personally think what Lavrov says is bull; and he knows too well we will agree with each other on a solution. Based on this it is only logical to think and expect that if there is going to be a final solution any time soon, the parties involved will for sure not involve the Serb and Albanians but the big powers, and they have proved they can generally agree with each other.The solution will be imposed.
P.S I don't know if the person writing above is the same Mike but if it is, based on past post I've read from you I have to say your views are becoming more radical as time passes.
I congratulate you on your balanced comments and I do hope that the US of 1947 does indeed shine through once more!
As a British Serb I too long for times when the freedom and democracy that both the US & UK stood for and exmplified - was resurected. I do indeed hope that in the process of the new talks which seem inevitable that the US & UK can also reflect on thier respective positions. The Russians have been quite clear that they will go along with this if they so wish but they highlight that there is notinhg unique and that if this is what they truly believe is right then they must be willing to accept it so for every single ethnic group globally wishing for self-determination. I think this will be a sobering thought and I do think it is sinking in the minds of some that such a new world order that they are pushing upon Serbia might not actually be the best way forward - hence the panic to hit the pause button!
Compromise is possible and Serbia is willing to continue with the dialogue as it has always been but it must be under the understanding that "negotiations" & "mediations" should be respectful and about compromise not imposition of a pre-determined & one-sided solution. All avenues of alternatives must be discussed and thrashed (verbally) so that a solution is found which is acceptable to all. Equally it must be accepted that a new dialogue must be supported with an emphasis on truth, reconcilation and trust between all the peoples of Serbia.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
(Joe, Monday, 9 July, 2007, 19:49)
Sounds like an oxymoron to me, why does the whole world hate the Serbs except for Greece.
Joe's money quote: "Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world."
How about being RESPECTED instead? Switzerland is neither hated nor envied, though it is highly significant and respected in the world. I'm tired of being hated. I'm tired of minding my own business everytime I take a vacation and suddenly have to answer for what my government did, or is proposing to do, by a non-American. I'm tired of seeing my flag burned and I'm tired of hearing every American foreign policy strategy shunned and rejected by nearly every other country on the planet. I'm tired of hearing seasoned statesmen around the world hint that what we got on 9/11 was somehow coming to us. I'm tired of Washington being seen as a laughing stock around the world, and I'm tired of my government bending, even suspending, the Constitution to further their own political ends. I'll take being respected anyday, and being respected almost comes hand-in-hand with being envied. I want my country to lead by example, and not by force. This is 2007, not 1947. The world no longer looks to us as the definitive center of freedom and liberty in the world. I love the American ideal and I wouldn't live anywhere else, but I am sick and tired of seeing the American idea being sullied and corrupted by heavy-handed politics and personal gains for a few mediocre politicians and statesmen. Being respected, means leading by example under the law. That's probably something you didn't hear on Fox News or those right-wing radio talk-shows you apparently get all your news and information from.
If you base your argument on American power being equivalent to being hated and envied around the world, you have a very poor concept of international relations. Please think about that before you decide to come back with another one of your classic "you don't like it here? Go to Venezuela, or Serbia, or Russia" comebacks.
Zoran,
Not seeing your posts for a while I thought you left the US, where you are so unhappy and moved to Russia or Venezuela. No, there is nothing wrong with the US policy. There is no arrogance whatsoever. For that you should take a closer look at your beloved Russia, who did not lose her imperialist insticts and try to intimidate a great number of countries around her. The world hates us? It is very simple. Every leading country during the history of mankind was hated by a lot of people.
And yes the jealousy factor is there too. It would be there regardless of the person of the president. It would be there with Hillary Clinton too, somebody you most likely support.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
Mike, I totally agree! Unilateralism by the US has done much more than simply destroy our good image. Most of the world now believes that we are the greatest threat to peace. Most of the world hates us, and the problem we have here is people like Joe who will blame this hatred on jealousy. The fact is that most of the world has been "jealous" of the US for at least a century now, but it is only recently that people the world over have hated us or considered us a threat to world peace. Obviously it is our hypocrisy, arrogance, and our lack of respect for law both at home and internationally (not to mention aggressive actions) that has brought us to the point of being viewed as a pariah nation. If the US continues to push an unjust resolution to Kosovo, I just can't imagine how badly the rest of the world will view us.
As much as I have little to no faith in the UN or its institutions, and as much as I have little love for large government bureaucracy, determining the status of a piece of territory that is seeking national sovereignty and membership in the UN is important enough to have to be decided in the UN. Just because a bunch of Albanian separatists and a handful of paid off American officials are not going to get their way in severing Kosovo from Serbia does not mean that we should just bypass the UN with a decision.
Look at how swell Iraq is going due to our efforts at bypassing a UN resolution. International perceptions of heavy-handed American unilateralism have done much to destroy the good image of my country around the world.
Do it right by doing it legally. If you find there are states objecting to you hammering in a proposal, work with those states at finding a compromise. The UN is set up - at least in theory - to make sure no one hegemonic power dominates the international scene. Besides, if Washington tells it's K Albanian fan club to start working within the UN right now, all talks of bypassing the UNSC are off the table.
Thanks M.Miller, but we are awake. Why not just wait and see what transpires in UNSC before experts on global issues, like you, pre-determine what will happen. But the West likes to pre-determine too. Kind of like playing blackjack, but insist on being dealt a king and an ace before the game starts.
Face it folks, there are bigger things the Kosovo alone behind the scenes that we are not privy too. So Serbs and Albanians should get to negotiating because if they feel they will sit back and wait then nothing is going to happen. So another 6 months we go. Then some hot head is going to organize a big demostration it gets out of hand and lot of people get hurt or killed and back to square one. Violence will never get anything. EU said no to unilateral declaration and US is not going to make European Policy.
It is very simple. Just bypass the UN, this useless thing, this "machin" as already de Caulle used to say. It was bypassed in 1999 when Serbia got bombed, it was bypassed in 2003 before attacking Irak. That showed clearly the impuissance of Russia. That can be shown again.
Serbia is wasting its time on Russia beleiving that they are on their side. Russia needs assurance from US not to invite Ukrain and Georgia to join NATO, and if that assurnace comes Russia will forget about Serbia. It is all games for personal gains, and no more no less.Serbia is to far to be that important for 150 milion russians, serbia is no Ukrain. Wake up Serbia.
So far russian President or FM has not had the guts and say it flat out ;"russia will VETO the resolution", all they keep saying we do not agree with this , we don't agree with that and so on ....
I guess Lavrov does not need to "explicitly" say whether Russia would use veto in the UN seeing as he states "Our position is well known" I think everyone knows what "No other decision will go through the UN Security Council" really means - does one really need to be more explicit ?
It just doesn't get more explicit that that. If the albanians don't understand that a negotiated settlement is all that will resolve this issue on a legal basis, then this issue has no hope of being solved.
But of course, the US will continue to tell the Serbs they are nationalists if they want to keep 15 percent of their country and refuse to be bribed. Of course we will continue to hear the same from the West. Blaming the Serbs for being attached to the past. It is getting old and tiring, but this is the way it's been going for the past few months. The US loves to blame the Serbs. So I expect more talk about giving up our nationalist past for a European future. And this coming from a country that isn't even in Europe.
But of course, the US will continue to tell the Serbs they are nationalists if they want to keep 15 percent of their country and refuse to be bribed. Of course we will continue to hear the same from the West. Blaming the Serbs for being attached to the past. It is getting old and tiring, but this is the way it's been going for the past few months. The US loves to blame the Serbs. So I expect more talk about giving up our nationalist past for a European future. And this coming from a country that isn't even in Europe.
It just doesn't get more explicit that that. If the albanians don't understand that a negotiated settlement is all that will resolve this issue on a legal basis, then this issue has no hope of being solved.
I guess Lavrov does not need to "explicitly" say whether Russia would use veto in the UN seeing as he states "Our position is well known" I think everyone knows what "No other decision will go through the UN Security Council" really means - does one really need to be more explicit ?
So far russian President or FM has not had the guts and say it flat out ;"russia will VETO the resolution", all they keep saying we do not agree with this , we don't agree with that and so on ....
Serbia is wasting its time on Russia beleiving that they are on their side. Russia needs assurance from US not to invite Ukrain and Georgia to join NATO, and if that assurnace comes Russia will forget about Serbia. It is all games for personal gains, and no more no less.Serbia is to far to be that important for 150 milion russians, serbia is no Ukrain. Wake up Serbia.
It is very simple. Just bypass the UN, this useless thing, this "machin" as already de Caulle used to say. It was bypassed in 1999 when Serbia got bombed, it was bypassed in 2003 before attacking Irak. That showed clearly the impuissance of Russia. That can be shown again.
Thanks M.Miller, but we are awake. Why not just wait and see what transpires in UNSC before experts on global issues, like you, pre-determine what will happen. But the West likes to pre-determine too. Kind of like playing blackjack, but insist on being dealt a king and an ace before the game starts.
As much as I have little to no faith in the UN or its institutions, and as much as I have little love for large government bureaucracy, determining the status of a piece of territory that is seeking national sovereignty and membership in the UN is important enough to have to be decided in the UN. Just because a bunch of Albanian separatists and a handful of paid off American officials are not going to get their way in severing Kosovo from Serbia does not mean that we should just bypass the UN with a decision.
Look at how swell Iraq is going due to our efforts at bypassing a UN resolution. International perceptions of heavy-handed American unilateralism have done much to destroy the good image of my country around the world.
Do it right by doing it legally. If you find there are states objecting to you hammering in a proposal, work with those states at finding a compromise. The UN is set up - at least in theory - to make sure no one hegemonic power dominates the international scene. Besides, if Washington tells it's K Albanian fan club to start working within the UN right now, all talks of bypassing the UNSC are off the table.
Face it folks, there are bigger things the Kosovo alone behind the scenes that we are not privy too. So Serbs and Albanians should get to negotiating because if they feel they will sit back and wait then nothing is going to happen. So another 6 months we go. Then some hot head is going to organize a big demostration it gets out of hand and lot of people get hurt or killed and back to square one. Violence will never get anything. EU said no to unilateral declaration and US is not going to make European Policy.
Mike, I totally agree! Unilateralism by the US has done much more than simply destroy our good image. Most of the world now believes that we are the greatest threat to peace. Most of the world hates us, and the problem we have here is people like Joe who will blame this hatred on jealousy. The fact is that most of the world has been "jealous" of the US for at least a century now, but it is only recently that people the world over have hated us or considered us a threat to world peace. Obviously it is our hypocrisy, arrogance, and our lack of respect for law both at home and internationally (not to mention aggressive actions) that has brought us to the point of being viewed as a pariah nation. If the US continues to push an unjust resolution to Kosovo, I just can't imagine how badly the rest of the world will view us.
Zoran,
Not seeing your posts for a while I thought you left the US, where you are so unhappy and moved to Russia or Venezuela. No, there is nothing wrong with the US policy. There is no arrogance whatsoever. For that you should take a closer look at your beloved Russia, who did not lose her imperialist insticts and try to intimidate a great number of countries around her. The world hates us? It is very simple. Every leading country during the history of mankind was hated by a lot of people.
And yes the jealousy factor is there too. It would be there regardless of the person of the president. It would be there with Hillary Clinton too, somebody you most likely support.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
(Joe, Monday, 9 July, 2007, 19:49)
Sounds like an oxymoron to me, why does the whole world hate the Serbs except for Greece.
Joe's money quote: "Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world."
How about being RESPECTED instead? Switzerland is neither hated nor envied, though it is highly significant and respected in the world. I'm tired of being hated. I'm tired of minding my own business everytime I take a vacation and suddenly have to answer for what my government did, or is proposing to do, by a non-American. I'm tired of seeing my flag burned and I'm tired of hearing every American foreign policy strategy shunned and rejected by nearly every other country on the planet. I'm tired of hearing seasoned statesmen around the world hint that what we got on 9/11 was somehow coming to us. I'm tired of Washington being seen as a laughing stock around the world, and I'm tired of my government bending, even suspending, the Constitution to further their own political ends. I'll take being respected anyday, and being respected almost comes hand-in-hand with being envied. I want my country to lead by example, and not by force. This is 2007, not 1947. The world no longer looks to us as the definitive center of freedom and liberty in the world. I love the American ideal and I wouldn't live anywhere else, but I am sick and tired of seeing the American idea being sullied and corrupted by heavy-handed politics and personal gains for a few mediocre politicians and statesmen. Being respected, means leading by example under the law. That's probably something you didn't hear on Fox News or those right-wing radio talk-shows you apparently get all your news and information from.
If you base your argument on American power being equivalent to being hated and envied around the world, you have a very poor concept of international relations. Please think about that before you decide to come back with another one of your classic "you don't like it here? Go to Venezuela, or Serbia, or Russia" comebacks.
I congratulate you on your balanced comments and I do hope that the US of 1947 does indeed shine through once more!
As a British Serb I too long for times when the freedom and democracy that both the US & UK stood for and exmplified - was resurected. I do indeed hope that in the process of the new talks which seem inevitable that the US & UK can also reflect on thier respective positions. The Russians have been quite clear that they will go along with this if they so wish but they highlight that there is notinhg unique and that if this is what they truly believe is right then they must be willing to accept it so for every single ethnic group globally wishing for self-determination. I think this will be a sobering thought and I do think it is sinking in the minds of some that such a new world order that they are pushing upon Serbia might not actually be the best way forward - hence the panic to hit the pause button!
Compromise is possible and Serbia is willing to continue with the dialogue as it has always been but it must be under the understanding that "negotiations" & "mediations" should be respectful and about compromise not imposition of a pre-determined & one-sided solution. All avenues of alternatives must be discussed and thrashed (verbally) so that a solution is found which is acceptable to all. Equally it must be accepted that a new dialogue must be supported with an emphasis on truth, reconcilation and trust between all the peoples of Serbia.
I keep hearing from all the Serbian posters here about a negotiated solution. However in 99% of these "negotiated" solutions they suggest, the "solution" which is supposed to be negotiated is the solution the Serb government offers, that is no independence. I cannot help it but ask, what incentives do Albanians have to start these negotiations knowing from the start that the other side will never agree with independence.The logical answer I arrive at is that they have no incentives whatsoever to even start negotiating since they already know that the final position of the other side will not change.
Then I try to stop thinking as an Albanian and try my best to think as a Serb and ask. What incentive do the Serbs have if they know from the start that the other side ( the Albanians) have ruled autonomy, and that independence is their final position? Again the logical answer I arrive is, the Serbs have no incentives whatsoever to negotiate with someone knowing that the final position is gonna be independence at all costs.
After I arrive at these answers it is very clear to me that there will never be a negotiated solution between the two sides. In fact if it is left up to us, our great great grandchildren will be posting similar posts about Kosovo/a's final solution.
It is unnecessary to be patriotic and talk about how it is the fault of a bunch of 2 million Albanians or how it is the fault of a bunch of Serbs. The truth is right in front of us, and that truth is that nobody be it Russia or the USA can make us agree on whether it is going to be independence or autonomy. So it is a utopic view to think that we are gonna talk and somehow magically after all these centuries we are going to agree with each other. That is why I personally think what Lavrov says is bull; and he knows too well we will agree with each other on a solution. Based on this it is only logical to think and expect that if there is going to be a final solution any time soon, the parties involved will for sure not involve the Serb and Albanians but the big powers, and they have proved they can generally agree with each other.The solution will be imposed.
P.S I don't know if the person writing above is the same Mike but if it is, based on past post I've read from you I have to say your views are becoming more radical as time passes.
Joe, you need to read very carefully mikes' comments, you can't accuse him of being anti-American like you do everybody else who does not agree with you. He speaks very well for all of us who are fed up with the direction our country is going in, and according to the latest poll a majority of Americans feel that way. Since you are in the minority, maybe you need to stop with that arrogance, "your either with us or you are with the terrorists" a quote from our beloved commander GWB. Just for the record, I do not support Hillary. If I had to pick a candidate it would be Ron Paul.
My first observation: just because so many people critisize the US in the world it does not mean that they are right. They would like to see a very week US, a US with a collapsed economy. They are not friends but ennemies. Chirac and Schroeder were good examples. I used to fight Europeans, in majority French on Figaro's very big forum until it got closed down. Those people expressed openly there desire to see the EU becoming #1 world power and the US as a 6th or 7th power before a complete collapse.
Mike, when you see so much bad will, I would say evil you have to fight and not agree with them.
Second observation: I do not go on vacation in countries, which are virulent anti-americans. If I hear unreasonable critisism of my country I shoot back. I do it also in Hungary, where I go every year.
About sources of info: no I do not watch Fox News, practically no TV and no radio talk-shows. But I have to go.
Thanks Princip. I do find it unsettling that the US and the UK are no longer seen in the light they once were. There is so much we could do to help develop democracy around the world if we actually work with the people, rather than assuming we know what the people really want (or worse, need). I personally liked PM Blair, but I wish your new PM all the success there is.
Zoran, alright! Another Ron Paul supporter! Though I doubt he'll make it past the primaries, and my vote will go to either McCain or Guilianni, there's something about Dr. Paul that a lot of us find refreshing.
Johny, I don't know how my comments have become more radical of late since I think I've been consistant in my rhetoric, but I can't please everybody.
Joe, deep down, I think you and I share similar feelings. I supported our efforts in Iraq and I truly believed that we could not only topple Saddam's government but had the capability of giving Iraq what we helped to give Germany and Japan. I cheered when Merkel defeated Schroeder, and I was happy to see Chirac go. Believe you me, nothing annoys me more than somearmchair European pop-Marxist telling me everything wrong about my country simply because it's America. Yet at the same time, I really want my government to lead with other states, not against them. I'm not happy that Serbia has to put its faith in nondemocratic Russia to preserve its territory - that is truly a Faustian move. I'm not happy that Serbian democratic efforts are constantly sullied by nationalists playing the Kosovo card because the US is not seen to be playing even-handedly. My taxes go to support the USA and I'm proud of that, but as taxpayers, you and I are technically our elected representatives bosses, and as such, I want my money and my votes to hold my leaders more accountable.
And for the record, I'll be celebrating when Hugo Chavez is finally overthrown.
But of course, the US will continue to tell the Serbs they are nationalists if they want to keep 15 percent of their country and refuse to be bribed. Of course we will continue to hear the same from the West. Blaming the Serbs for being attached to the past. It is getting old and tiring, but this is the way it's been going for the past few months. The US loves to blame the Serbs. So I expect more talk about giving up our nationalist past for a European future. And this coming from a country that isn't even in Europe.
It just doesn't get more explicit that that. If the albanians don't understand that a negotiated settlement is all that will resolve this issue on a legal basis, then this issue has no hope of being solved.
I guess Lavrov does not need to "explicitly" say whether Russia would use veto in the UN seeing as he states "Our position is well known" I think everyone knows what "No other decision will go through the UN Security Council" really means - does one really need to be more explicit ?
So far russian President or FM has not had the guts and say it flat out ;"russia will VETO the resolution", all they keep saying we do not agree with this , we don't agree with that and so on ....
Serbia is wasting its time on Russia beleiving that they are on their side. Russia needs assurance from US not to invite Ukrain and Georgia to join NATO, and if that assurnace comes Russia will forget about Serbia. It is all games for personal gains, and no more no less.Serbia is to far to be that important for 150 milion russians, serbia is no Ukrain. Wake up Serbia.
It is very simple. Just bypass the UN, this useless thing, this "machin" as already de Caulle used to say. It was bypassed in 1999 when Serbia got bombed, it was bypassed in 2003 before attacking Irak. That showed clearly the impuissance of Russia. That can be shown again.
Thanks M.Miller, but we are awake. Why not just wait and see what transpires in UNSC before experts on global issues, like you, pre-determine what will happen. But the West likes to pre-determine too. Kind of like playing blackjack, but insist on being dealt a king and an ace before the game starts.
As much as I have little to no faith in the UN or its institutions, and as much as I have little love for large government bureaucracy, determining the status of a piece of territory that is seeking national sovereignty and membership in the UN is important enough to have to be decided in the UN. Just because a bunch of Albanian separatists and a handful of paid off American officials are not going to get their way in severing Kosovo from Serbia does not mean that we should just bypass the UN with a decision.
Look at how swell Iraq is going due to our efforts at bypassing a UN resolution. International perceptions of heavy-handed American unilateralism have done much to destroy the good image of my country around the world.
Do it right by doing it legally. If you find there are states objecting to you hammering in a proposal, work with those states at finding a compromise. The UN is set up - at least in theory - to make sure no one hegemonic power dominates the international scene. Besides, if Washington tells it's K Albanian fan club to start working within the UN right now, all talks of bypassing the UNSC are off the table.
Face it folks, there are bigger things the Kosovo alone behind the scenes that we are not privy too. So Serbs and Albanians should get to negotiating because if they feel they will sit back and wait then nothing is going to happen. So another 6 months we go. Then some hot head is going to organize a big demostration it gets out of hand and lot of people get hurt or killed and back to square one. Violence will never get anything. EU said no to unilateral declaration and US is not going to make European Policy.
Mike, I totally agree! Unilateralism by the US has done much more than simply destroy our good image. Most of the world now believes that we are the greatest threat to peace. Most of the world hates us, and the problem we have here is people like Joe who will blame this hatred on jealousy. The fact is that most of the world has been "jealous" of the US for at least a century now, but it is only recently that people the world over have hated us or considered us a threat to world peace. Obviously it is our hypocrisy, arrogance, and our lack of respect for law both at home and internationally (not to mention aggressive actions) that has brought us to the point of being viewed as a pariah nation. If the US continues to push an unjust resolution to Kosovo, I just can't imagine how badly the rest of the world will view us.
Zoran,
Not seeing your posts for a while I thought you left the US, where you are so unhappy and moved to Russia or Venezuela. No, there is nothing wrong with the US policy. There is no arrogance whatsoever. For that you should take a closer look at your beloved Russia, who did not lose her imperialist insticts and try to intimidate a great number of countries around her. The world hates us? It is very simple. Every leading country during the history of mankind was hated by a lot of people.
And yes the jealousy factor is there too. It would be there regardless of the person of the president. It would be there with Hillary Clinton too, somebody you most likely support.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world.
(Joe, Monday, 9 July, 2007, 19:49)
Sounds like an oxymoron to me, why does the whole world hate the Serbs except for Greece.
Joe's money quote: "Once the world would stop to hate us or would not envie us anymore it would be a very sad day: meaning we became a very poor and totaly insignificant country in the world."
How about being RESPECTED instead? Switzerland is neither hated nor envied, though it is highly significant and respected in the world. I'm tired of being hated. I'm tired of minding my own business everytime I take a vacation and suddenly have to answer for what my government did, or is proposing to do, by a non-American. I'm tired of seeing my flag burned and I'm tired of hearing every American foreign policy strategy shunned and rejected by nearly every other country on the planet. I'm tired of hearing seasoned statesmen around the world hint that what we got on 9/11 was somehow coming to us. I'm tired of Washington being seen as a laughing stock around the world, and I'm tired of my government bending, even suspending, the Constitution to further their own political ends. I'll take being respected anyday, and being respected almost comes hand-in-hand with being envied. I want my country to lead by example, and not by force. This is 2007, not 1947. The world no longer looks to us as the definitive center of freedom and liberty in the world. I love the American ideal and I wouldn't live anywhere else, but I am sick and tired of seeing the American idea being sullied and corrupted by heavy-handed politics and personal gains for a few mediocre politicians and statesmen. Being respected, means leading by example under the law. That's probably something you didn't hear on Fox News or those right-wing radio talk-shows you apparently get all your news and information from.
If you base your argument on American power being equivalent to being hated and envied around the world, you have a very poor concept of international relations. Please think about that before you decide to come back with another one of your classic "you don't like it here? Go to Venezuela, or Serbia, or Russia" comebacks.
I congratulate you on your balanced comments and I do hope that the US of 1947 does indeed shine through once more!
As a British Serb I too long for times when the freedom and democracy that both the US & UK stood for and exmplified - was resurected. I do indeed hope that in the process of the new talks which seem inevitable that the US & UK can also reflect on thier respective positions. The Russians have been quite clear that they will go along with this if they so wish but they highlight that there is notinhg unique and that if this is what they truly believe is right then they must be willing to accept it so for every single ethnic group globally wishing for self-determination. I think this will be a sobering thought and I do think it is sinking in the minds of some that such a new world order that they are pushing upon Serbia might not actually be the best way forward - hence the panic to hit the pause button!
Compromise is possible and Serbia is willing to continue with the dialogue as it has always been but it must be under the understanding that "negotiations" & "mediations" should be respectful and about compromise not imposition of a pre-determined & one-sided solution. All avenues of alternatives must be discussed and thrashed (verbally) so that a solution is found which is acceptable to all. Equally it must be accepted that a new dialogue must be supported with an emphasis on truth, reconcilation and trust between all the peoples of Serbia.
I keep hearing from all the Serbian posters here about a negotiated solution. However in 99% of these "negotiated" solutions they suggest, the "solution" which is supposed to be negotiated is the solution the Serb government offers, that is no independence. I cannot help it but ask, what incentives do Albanians have to start these negotiations knowing from the start that the other side will never agree with independence.The logical answer I arrive at is that they have no incentives whatsoever to even start negotiating since they already know that the final position of the other side will not change.
Then I try to stop thinking as an Albanian and try my best to think as a Serb and ask. What incentive do the Serbs have if they know from the start that the other side ( the Albanians) have ruled autonomy, and that independence is their final position? Again the logical answer I arrive is, the Serbs have no incentives whatsoever to negotiate with someone knowing that the final position is gonna be independence at all costs.
After I arrive at these answers it is very clear to me that there will never be a negotiated solution between the two sides. In fact if it is left up to us, our great great grandchildren will be posting similar posts about Kosovo/a's final solution.
It is unnecessary to be patriotic and talk about how it is the fault of a bunch of 2 million Albanians or how it is the fault of a bunch of Serbs. The truth is right in front of us, and that truth is that nobody be it Russia or the USA can make us agree on whether it is going to be independence or autonomy. So it is a utopic view to think that we are gonna talk and somehow magically after all these centuries we are going to agree with each other. That is why I personally think what Lavrov says is bull; and he knows too well we will agree with each other on a solution. Based on this it is only logical to think and expect that if there is going to be a final solution any time soon, the parties involved will for sure not involve the Serb and Albanians but the big powers, and they have proved they can generally agree with each other.The solution will be imposed.
P.S I don't know if the person writing above is the same Mike but if it is, based on past post I've read from you I have to say your views are becoming more radical as time passes.
Joe, you need to read very carefully mikes' comments, you can't accuse him of being anti-American like you do everybody else who does not agree with you. He speaks very well for all of us who are fed up with the direction our country is going in, and according to the latest poll a majority of Americans feel that way. Since you are in the minority, maybe you need to stop with that arrogance, "your either with us or you are with the terrorists" a quote from our beloved commander GWB. Just for the record, I do not support Hillary. If I had to pick a candidate it would be Ron Paul.
My first observation: just because so many people critisize the US in the world it does not mean that they are right. They would like to see a very week US, a US with a collapsed economy. They are not friends but ennemies. Chirac and Schroeder were good examples. I used to fight Europeans, in majority French on Figaro's very big forum until it got closed down. Those people expressed openly there desire to see the EU becoming #1 world power and the US as a 6th or 7th power before a complete collapse.
Mike, when you see so much bad will, I would say evil you have to fight and not agree with them.
Second observation: I do not go on vacation in countries, which are virulent anti-americans. If I hear unreasonable critisism of my country I shoot back. I do it also in Hungary, where I go every year.
About sources of info: no I do not watch Fox News, practically no TV and no radio talk-shows. But I have to go.
Thanks Princip. I do find it unsettling that the US and the UK are no longer seen in the light they once were. There is so much we could do to help develop democracy around the world if we actually work with the people, rather than assuming we know what the people really want (or worse, need). I personally liked PM Blair, but I wish your new PM all the success there is.
Zoran, alright! Another Ron Paul supporter! Though I doubt he'll make it past the primaries, and my vote will go to either McCain or Guilianni, there's something about Dr. Paul that a lot of us find refreshing.
Johny, I don't know how my comments have become more radical of late since I think I've been consistant in my rhetoric, but I can't please everybody.
Joe, deep down, I think you and I share similar feelings. I supported our efforts in Iraq and I truly believed that we could not only topple Saddam's government but had the capability of giving Iraq what we helped to give Germany and Japan. I cheered when Merkel defeated Schroeder, and I was happy to see Chirac go. Believe you me, nothing annoys me more than somearmchair European pop-Marxist telling me everything wrong about my country simply because it's America. Yet at the same time, I really want my government to lead with other states, not against them. I'm not happy that Serbia has to put its faith in nondemocratic Russia to preserve its territory - that is truly a Faustian move. I'm not happy that Serbian democratic efforts are constantly sullied by nationalists playing the Kosovo card because the US is not seen to be playing even-handedly. My taxes go to support the USA and I'm proud of that, but as taxpayers, you and I are technically our elected representatives bosses, and as such, I want my money and my votes to hold my leaders more accountable.
And for the record, I'll be celebrating when Hugo Chavez is finally overthrown.
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