Yes, I am Albanian and I think Serbia has great tennis players. It has also great basketball payers and I always liked its soccer team.
Of course, I always rooted for the other team, but hey, "give to the devil his due", right. Hahaha.
Good game, guys. I sincerely wish to Serbia a great future in sports.
With your logic of chopping up sovereign countries, US would not exist today. They would never dare to chop up the British Kingdom in 1776.
(Marco, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:37)
starideda my dear you can not expect the albanians to praise the likes of ana ivanovic, novak djokovic and jelena jankovic who all are in the limelight of the tennis world especially in the wimbledon nowadays. pretty ana and young djokovic made serbians proud. GREAT GAMES. watch them and cool a bit guys.
Konstantin Gregovic - It's irrelevant what the ICTY transcripts say. He claimed whilst he was in jail to be a pauper when the reality couldn't have been further from the truth with millions found in bank accounts after his death and no doubt countless millions not yet found.
Besides the fact that he made a fortune with his cronies, he sold out his own people in croatia. no doubt the wily Tudjman convinced him to pull back with the agreement to carve up bosnia instead between them. what a fool.
So i stand by my original statement. he got what he deserved. he was a criminal.
To: brako qoviq,
you mentioned sties built during milosheviq era, such as Gjakova/Dakovica nad you listed sites vandalized during march riots. this is not what i chellenged you guys , you know very well about my challenge about the truth and not fiction. The only tru coment came from ; (MIKE, Thursday, 5 July, 16:58), Mike listed six ancient orthodox churches and I fully agree with him and by the way Mike I knew about these as well but I was waiting to hear from an honest to god individual to tell the truth, and not like others writing all the time as follows: " Over 100 shurches destroyed". Again I thank you Mike for your honesty and I wish everyone on this site be as honest as you are.By the way out of six churches mentioned by Mike : 2 are badly damaged, 2 are ttaly destroyed and 2 are vandalized.
The problem is that if Kosovo is given independents that would destabilize the whole region.
If Kosovo is given independence then Republika Srpska will join Serbia. That is why the west has not given kosovo independence.
The best outcome would be to partition Kosovo and unite Republika Srpska with Serbia.
Then every body wins!!!
Zivela Srbija
Rten Kinsey, the propaganda machine is still working against Serb and against justice and common sense.
You wrote:" I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that."
Would you tell me when did you arrive to Kosovo? What do you know about terror spread in Kosovo by Albanian extremists, what do you know about war propaganda of 1999?
And same propaganda is still used in Western media. At the end of most of reports you can find the following:
"Independent estimates put the civilian death toll at between 7,500 and 12,000, mostly Albanians. About a million was forced by Serb army to leave Kosovo."
I would like to refresh your memory and recall for you world news from 1999.
"A week before the bombings began, David Scheffer, U.S. State Department ambassador at large for war crime issues, announced that "we have upwards of about 100,000 [ethnic Albanian] men that we cannot account for" in Kosovo. A month later, the State Department claimed that up to 500,000 Kosovo Albanians were missing and feared dead."
How do you like it?
"Before the end of the air campaign, British Foreign Office Minister Geoff Hoon said that "in more than 100 massacres" some 10,000 ethnic Albanians had been killed (averaging 100 victims per massacre). Though substantially reduced from the 100,000 to 500,000 bandied about by U.S. officials, this was still a considerable number."
Sounds better?
"The FBI team returned home, oddly with not a word to say about their investigation. Months later, the London Financial Times reported that the FBI had found not thousands but 200 bodies at 30 sites."
Perhaps the FBI experts were poorly trained!
"As reported in the Times of London (October 31), one Spanish forensic expert, Emilio Perez Puhola, acknowledged that his team did not find even
one mass grave. He dismissed the widely publicized references about mass graves as being part of the "machinery of war propaganda."
Apparently a Serb agent !
"As of November 1999, the total number of bodies that the Western grave diggers claimed to have discovered was 2,108, "and not all of them necessarily war crimes victims," according to a story in the Wall Street Journal (December 31)."
And the worst kind of KLA propaganda amplified by western media, main Trepca.
"As reported by U.S. and NATO officials, the Serbs threw 1,000 or more bodies down the shafts or disposed of them in the mine's vats of hydrochloric acid. In October 1999, the ICTY released the findings of Western forensic teams investigating Trepca. Not a single body was found in the mine shafts, nor was there any evidence that the vats had ever been used in an attempt to dissolve human remains."
120000 private homes have been burned to the ground along with mosques. You cry about your ancient religious sites which is understandable to some point. But as long as Serbs don't accept the responsibility for the massive destruction and pay for the damages, most of the Albanians will feel no pitiness for the religious sites, which aided and blessed some of the worst Serbian war criminals. The damage estimate is on my desk, which we will soon send it to Serbia, and if Serbia is forced Serbia to pay, your country will be bancrupt for a decade.
Could an Albanian blogger here please congratulate us Serbs for our great perfomance in the tennis world? You must admit, we are phenoms. Zivela Srbija. I would like to see Albanians celebrating their sports victories too. We are all pretty much the same. The silly differnces, exploited by our politicians, have made us enemys. I have nothing against Albanians.
Fine! Go and join Albania. I would like to see nations solidified. Isn't it ridiculous, to have 2 nations of Albanians, why? Would Albanians like to see 2 or 3 Serbian nations? It's just ridiculous.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution for Kosovo between Serbia and it's Albanian population. I am not pro Serb or Albanian but, at the present Kosovo leagally belongs to Serbia (fact). I propose a solution where neither side has control of the province. It should just be made a UN Nation, contolled, overseen, mandated, etc., by the UN. Isn't that perfect? All sides win and all sides lose. They both deserve it. I believe the EU/UN is working towards something like this. The US has stepped away from the Balkan scenerio. that is obvious.
This is nothing but a chess game in which the West is trying to improve its position by maneuvering things around but they can't break through really. For the simple reason that the rule of law is not on their side. They know it and that's why we are seeing their useless posturing, economic duress and bullying being replaced with new and new and new strategies that ultimately are going to fail as well. Nobody in Serbia has any sympathy or illusions about the West. On the contrary. This is not going to change for a very long time. For the obvious reasons. Mr Jeremic is a smart man and the government is playing its strenghts extremly well I would say. The West has been now reduced to pure bluffing.
Branco Covic,
Imagine those chutches would still be there intact..How much would they be visited by Serbs, who are not religious at all?
Would they be visited by those Serbs, who committed all those horrible crimes to get absolution for their crimes?
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
(PB, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:26)
I know its fashionable to lay blame on a dead leader who was caught in the middle of the former Yugoslavia falling apart. Read the ICTY Milosevic transcripts in his own words and then make your judgement on what kind of "dirt" he really is.
I would add to Dragan's statement the following caveat: we are quick to point out, list, and blame Albanians for the destruction of Serbian reliigous sites throughout Kosovo. Yet at the same time, we need to also remember that non-Orthodox sites have been targeted and destroyed by Milosevic's forces too. I especially deplored the destruction and desecration of Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren, but I would have been equally appalled if the Sinan Ali Pasha mosque in Prizren were destroyed.
In our efforts to remind some people of the obvious act of violence taking place right under their nose, let's not ignore the destruction of sites that was committed in the name of our religion too. If we're going to take the moral high ground (and we have every right to since 1999)) let's make sure we're not pushed off that moral highground due to oversight or double-standards.
Jovan you are very naive. Do you really expect that if some other country, say the US, told the Albanian leaders to accept broad autonomy the Albanian people would accept it? Well clearly you have no idea about the history of Kosovo/a. Need I remind you that even when there was no country in the world that backed the Kosovo/a Albanians for their independence drive, even when under such conditions where the Albanians had no allies and they were continuously repressed they never stopped working for independence?
You are very naive if you fail to see this. This has nothing to do with convincing the politicians to give up independence, since the will for independence does not come from the politicians down to the people but it goes from the people to the politicians.
Albanians have already been in the situation where nobody in the world would listen to them, where they were crushed militarily but that never crushed their desire for independence. Nothing will.
Kosovo/a under Serbia will not only be a nightmare for Albanians but also for the Serbs not only living in Kosovo/a but in Serbia as well. There will never be sincere relations between us, and both our nations will do everything to subdue the other if we're left under the same roof. History has proven it through thousands of years.
Also to those Serbs that support partition, if partition happens and the Serb part joins Serbia what would they think about the Albanian part joining Albania?
Why is it that the supporters of the Serbian side here back up their claims with facts, and the albanian supporters try to avoid, or deny the facts? The Serbs have truth on their side, that is the answer. Ahmet, are you really that ignorant about the burning and destruction of ancient Serbian Holy sites, is your head that far in the sand, or are you being paid by Hollbrooke and company to spread your propoganda here? The evidence is right under your nose and it is overwhelming. I would be ashamed if my people did this to ancient holy sites. What you are destroying is art and history, just like the Taliban did when they blew up the Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan. The Kosovo albanians have shown that they are much closer to the Taliban than to Europeans.
when will Albanians stop hiding behind ficticious nick-names like "Rten Kinsey" and others...
personally I would agree wih that official standpoint: there is no need to divide something here, since it is clear to whom this land belongs. so, after the US finally get it, they should tell albanians to accept broad autonomy, since there won´t be a better offer.
ahmet maybe you are blind if you are saying you are working with ambassadors and you dont know anything about burned churhes during the march 2004 albanian riots. here is a list my friend***
Prizren:
Our Lady of Ljeviš Cathedral (Bogorodica Ljeviška), 12th century was burned down on March 17
Church of Saint Salvation (Sveti Spas), 14th century
St. Hieromartyr George's Cathedral (Sv. velikomučenika Đorđa), 1887 housing the 14th century icon of Mary and an 18th century iconostasis
Monastery of Saint Archangels from the 14th century
Church of St. George Runović, 15th century with 16th century iconostasis gates
Raška-Prizren Archdiocese
Building of the Sts. Cyrill and Methodius Orthodox Seminary, 1880, sacked
Peć:
Church of St. John the Baptist (Svetog Jovana Preteče i Krstitelja) set on fire March 17 in Pećka Banja village
Belo Polje village church of St. Nicholas, 19th century
Đakovica: Church of Our Lord's Ascension (Uspenja Gospodnjeg), 19th century, torched along with the parochial residence on March 17. Reports of Albanians clearing the ruins of the Church of the Holy Trinity, destroyed in 1999
Uroševac: Church of St. Tzar Uroš
Kosovo Polje:
Saint Nicholas in Kosovo Polje town, 19th century
Bresje village church of St. Catherine, 19th century
Gnjilane: Church of St. Nicholas, 1861
Priština: Church of St. Nicholas, 19th century, damaged and sacked
Vučitrn: Church of St. Elijah, burned down
Southern Kosovska Mitrovica: Church of Saint Sava set afire in the morning of March 18, adjoining Orthodox cemetery desecrated
Srbica: Devič Monastery, nuns evacuated by Danish soldiers, monastery pillaged and torched
Štimlje: Church of St. Archangel Michael set on fire on March 19
Orahovac: Bela Crkva and Brnjak village churches burnt
Vitina: Two destroyed churches, in town and in village of Donja Slapa?nica
Obilić: Church set afire
Laki - strange how you focus on the rapes and not the killings and kidnappings which you don't even mention. There were various UN reports of nuns and other women being raped after Nato took over Kosovo. Are you telling me that none of these happened?
That the murderous brutality against Serbian and other civilians by the KLA never took place?
Everyone knows that it did - it was very well documented.
By the way, to everyone here, I equally condemn the horrendous rapes, killings and brutality against Albanian and other civilians as well. No matter who carried out which crimes or who was the victim - they are all as bad as each other.
But we are talking about the situation following Kosovo being 'liberated' by Nato, and in its current state today during the bid for independence.
Please Tatiana & Co, stop apointing links to your propaganda and very rhetoric speeches from your beloved priests about albanians...
Kosova is own country with bittred k-serbs, hopefully they will come to senses some day!
Peace!
for ahmet isufi just go to this link and you can see the whole story of the damaged orthodox churches in kosovo during the march 2004 riots. http://www.kosovo.net/news_pogrom.html
Kate:
"rapings, killings and kidnappings "
give us a proof of any Serbian raped since NATO took control of Kosova ? It's the same song serbs cried during Milosevic "raping , raping raping ,.... “without ever proving anything. Of course the song has been played thousands of times by RTS, written in every serbian book and serbs really believe on it. That’s what I call a MYTH. You fail to mention thousands of albanian women raped by serbian military? Hold on I know your answer "NATO raped albanian women and blamed on serbs"
to B92 I appreciate if you post my comment on its entirety.
"I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included."
Um, I think you asked this at one point last week or something.
1. Holy Trinity Monastery near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch01.html
2. Church of the Holy Virgin near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch02.html
3. St. Mark's of Korisa Monastery near Prizren (15th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch03.html
4. St. Gabriel Monastery near Vitina (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch04.html
5. Devic Monastery near Srbica (15th cetnury) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch05.html
6. Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren (12th century) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Ljevis
How you a) claim to live in Kosovo, b) claim to know every inside detail going on in Kosovo, and c) still be ignorant of this, is something I probably will never understand.
Teni - UN suggests roughly 10,000 were killed in Kosovo but from that figure, nearly 3000 were Serbs. OK 7/8000 Albanians. i'm not making light of that fact by the way.
I disagree about the partition option. Just as the Albanians do not want to live under Serbian rule, neither do the Serbs in northern Kosovo want to live under Albanian rule due to the intimidation, killings etc of civilians. As neither side want to live with each other, Kosovo should be partitioned.
Serban army killing civilians - NO excuse whatsoever. I agree with the international court that whoever was responsible should be made to answer for their actions in court, if guilty, then jailed appropriately. that must extend to all sides though and what Serbia has seen so far is double standards to say the least , the best example being Naser Oric - 2 years in jail when everyone knows he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of serbs in the villages surrounding srebrenica. Also , why do albanian leaders receive preferential treatment from the courts i.e. wy are they allowed bail when serbian defendants have to wait in prison before their trial?? If we want to solve the issues then a truthful discussion needs to take place, and that involves reassessing the wars in the balkans and respective countries roles. It was convenient for the USA and western europe to portray Serbia as a genocidal aggressor when it suited them, a good example being the KLA. months before the war in Kosovo started the KLA were a terroroist organisation in the USA, suddenly it's a bunch of freedom fighters!! Why? Because that situation suited the US. They told everyone when the war started that the serbs in the first couple of months had managed to kill 100,000 albanians - Pure propoganda. Same in bosnia. estimaed deaths 200,000 +. now that figure is less than half that - pure guess work.
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
To Kate,
I am still at a loss as to where you get your info on the population and the crimes committed in Kosovo.
One explanation is that the Kosovo Albanians have a much higher growth rate than the Serbs who actually have one of the lowest in Europe, as far as I know. I don't see how one can blame the Albanians for that although the SANU memorandum in the 1980s did just that, accusing the Albanians of demographic genocide!
As for the crimes: I know that the Albanians have committed crimes against the Serbs and I condem that. But you must remember what the Serbs did there: the mass rapes and killings. I went to Kosovo after the war and all I saw on the way from Bllace to Pristina were destroyed villages. And before you say anything: no! it was not because of NATO bombings!!! It was the Serb army. Nevertheless a criminal is a criminal and should be punished for it regardless of ethnicity.
As for the violence, well opinnions diverge on that. If that violence is directed towards the Serb army or police (in the unlikely event they would return to Kosovo) I would support it 100%. After all one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter! My Serb friends here must know that (think of the Black Hand etc).
And if you, as a European have a stake in Kosovo consider this: would it be better for Kosovo to remain part of Serbia and have a never ending insurgency or for it to get indepence.
Of course I believe Kosovo has the right to be independent, but even if you look at it in practical terms, independence would be better.
Kate: "rapings, killings... in their thousands..."
Not a single serb has been raped since NATO deployment. The number of killed serbs is under 30... Not that this is a small number, but simply talking about thousands makes this forum a joke... As a Serb, you're more likely to get killed in Serbia than in Kosovo. If you want to ease your consciences by talking about thousands of rapes, that is your problem. The only real problem the serbs face in Kosovo is freedom of movement. That is a real problem and will probably last for quite a long time.
Please Kate , I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included. You said it yourself that you don't live in Kosova and from your writing I can tell that you have never stepped a foot in country. You have no right to write melicious lies. B92 should censor your commets ,period. I can give you facts on the ground because I live and work in high place where I take part in very important meeting including with 10 UNSC Ambasadors and I have personally offered evidence on this site about such meetings.
teni - Okay, so the increase from 1m to 2m has been over a longer period of time than since 1999, but I was trying to make the point (admittedly badly) that the population has swelled and undoubtedly includes outside elements there to stoke up trouble or commit crime.
Even though I agree with very little of your political stance, thank you at least for your respect and politeness.
I am certain that you would agree that any criminals coming in to Kosovo should be kicked out again if they do start or incite any violence. And that any violent elements should be quelled immediately.
Regardless of what happens to Kosovo, any sane person would want to avoid violence.
I do not live in Kosovo, and I am certain for a fact that there are many good people there, and many who don't want violence. But as a European this issue affects me directly and I do not want to see the US having the right to chop off sovereign territory and hand it to any group of people.
I also have a real problem with the way that Kosovo was supposed to be 'protected' by the UN and yet rapings, killings and kidnappings have gone on in their thousands, and 14th Century churches torn apart so savagely. This is my heritage too.
This is ridiculous... No one has been offering serbia the division of Kosovo. When they say "we disagree with division of K" they are in fact saying: "Please offer us division of K" I'm afraid no one is thinking of making that offer.
Rten Kinsey - You can't accuse B92 of being biased. They publish comments from people with vastly opposing views. Maybe the bit that was cut out was offensive. Even more offensive than accusing me of ignorance for stating a fact (that the population of Kosovo has swelled from 1m to 2m and most likely there had been an influx from other countries).
Oh great, thanks b92 for censuring my comment yes you have totally changed the sense and the point of my comment…just another fact of ignorance to the others that thing different than you….
Kate
It is absurd to claim that the population of Kosovo has doubled since 1999. Where did the additional 1 million come from? I hope you are not suggesting Albania as the country of provenance because I would have noticed if one third of my country's population dissapeared in 6 -7 years. Maybe you should look at the demographic statistics of Yugoslavia concerning the population of Kosovo.
And to PB: the official death toll for Kosovo Albanians is more than 10 000 and not 5 000 as you claim. There are still more than 2 400 missing and most people suspect that their bodies were burried somewhere in Serbia in a massgrave. Remember Batanica? And I do not see how the KLA can be responsible for the Serb forces killing Albanian civilians. Yes maybe the KLA did fire the first shots in the 1998 - 99 war, but that was in response to the policies of Milosevic (although you may dissagree with that). But still how does that excuse the Serb forces from their role in killing that many civilians?
Maybe you should have a look at the evidence that has come out of the trials in the ICTY. There have been many Serbs officers who have come out and told what happened. Or will you simply dismiss the ICTY as a Western ploy to get at Serbia?
Personally I think that it will take time for Kosovan Albanians and Kosovan Serbs to live together.
I am for a partition of Kosova/o even though it will be painful for some residents living in "wrong"sides.But we have EU so they should react very fast and help citizens of Kosova/o.
Reading every news,speaking to people in Kosova/o,after visiting them this year I saw that relations between two nations are still tense.I think that the best solution is partition.
This will be the main topic during the new negotiations.
You can talk all day about "Kosovo is Serbia",etc,but something got to give for Kosovan Albanians.From a promised full independence to now a greater autonomy,this is a nightmare for us Albanians.
But I think Serbs are becoming more greedy so they are saying it won't be a partition of Kosova'o!!!
I am hoping for a peaceful solution,we saw enough wars. Kosovan Albanians have a right to have a slice of cake,after what happened in 1999.
West is loosing his credibility,they are playing with lives of Kosovans,how long Kosovan Albanians will be patient only God knows!!!
All our lives we had to live under someone,is it about time we take control of our lives.(I don't mean war)
Rten Kinsey - you're right. Serbia isn't like the Kosovo Albanians or the Albanians. As for starting wars, it's very convenient to try to rewrite history but the facts are thus - In Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo, the first shots fired in anger were not fired by a Serb.
As for Kosovo, the KLA targeted the Serbs (with the blessing of the USA). What was the Serbian army going to do? The 5000 albanians who died ni that war died as a result of KLA actions. If the KLA had not started trouble, there would never have been a war in Kosovo.
Jeremić cannot accept partition and then simply giving up on those Serbs living on the wrong side of the new border.
In my opinion negotiations should go along the following lines:
- in the first stage new borders are drawn along ethnic lines - with which Kosovo can become independent at some time. It might be nice to keep to the principle that in the end there should be a balance so that as much Albanians as Serbs end up on the "wrong side" of the border. This might include some enclaves - where the the other side has the right to pass through.
- next come the negotiations about minority rights on both sides. People on the wrong side of the border will very probably have to learn the language of the majority.
- simultaneous are negotiations about property rights - so that the legal vacuum is ended.
- The last is the trust building phase when the agreements should prove to work in reality. After independence seems to me the most logical solution.
To PB I was thinkin exactly the same about the partition option. And actually when I think about it, partition would be the worst possible outcome because it would poison the relations between Serbs and Albanians even further (if that is possible). But I also cannot see the point in having further talks. Both sides are adamant about sticking to their positions. And even if we assume for a moment that the Albanian negotiating team and politicians would agree to anything less than independence, I think that would not even be worth the paper it was signed on. The population at large would not accept it. Another sort of rotation in Kosovo politics would follow like the one that hapenned in 1998 - 99. The LDK which had been asking peacefully but unsuccesfully for Kosovo to be made a republic was simply overshadowed by the KLA which wanted outright independence by any means. If the politicians that have come out of the KLA were to accept anything less than independence (which I don't think will ever happen) other factions would come to the fore and fight. I have never come across any Albanian in Kosovo who would say: "Yes, broad autonomy under Serb sovereignty is the way forward." In other words there is simply no popular support among Kosovo Albanians for anything but independence. This is my reading of the situation. And although I do believe that Kosovo will become independent, the tiny, tiny chance that it might not, really scares me.
Like my fellow Irishman Niall O'Doherty, I know what the consequences are when a country is partitioned because a majority in one corner of it do not identify with the overall majority. In the case of Ireland it resulted in decades of discrimination and repression of the minority in the partitioned mini-state. Ultimately it gave rise to years of civil conflict. Serbia must maintain its position on its sovereign territory while conceding considerable autonomy to the Albanians of Kosovo. In turn, the Albanians have to give up on the potentially disastrous aim of independence.
Well thats the Serbian position stated quite clearly and equivocally - no partition and no independence. Cant the Albanians and NATO get it. You cannot rip 15% of a democratic sovereign nation's territory just like that. Its in gross violation of international law and undermines the invollibility of the nation state. Doing so would open a veritiable pandora's box and unleash anarchy not only in the Balkans but also around the world. The K-Albanian side must drop its unrealistic demands for independence and start proper negotiations with Belgrade, just like wat the IRA did here in Ireland. Compromise, compromise, compromise. Both sides must do it in order for any talks to suceed. Likewise Belgrade must make concrete assurances and proposals of its willingness, desire and its ability to integrate 2 million K-Albanians into mainstream Serbian society, i.e.widespread autonomy, jobs and powersharing in Belgrade i.e. seats for K-Albanians in Belgrade government cabinet. Its the only way out of this impasse.
heuschrecker - it would be hypocrital if both parties had the same standing in negotiations. But in this case the province is part of Serbia which is in its right to preserve its territory, while the other party is trying to obtain as much as they can in concessions.
This is not a level playing field, and the stronger side is the one playing within the rules, not the one with the biggest players.
Full supervised autonomy is as much as any country would offer in these circumstances.
I don’t know why kosovonians are wasting there time here, people let them say any thing they want, these are the guys that started how many wars, like 10 of them maybe counting from Balkan Wars and back. Even in these comments you can se how ignorant they can be.
I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that.
I read comments every day, all what it is just, ignorance, what set me off and made me to comment here is yesterdays comment by
Kate: (the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants)
This is ridiculous, and you guys still want to have Kosovo within Serbia c’mon people wake up.
Another thing I’ve noticed, any time somebody mentions war crimes, it is always the same. You guys try to hide behind Milosevics, Karagigs, Mladics, back like they were the only war criminals. On the other side you guys wear t-shirts with their picture on it, have graffiti’s or flayers on almost all the streets supporting war criminals like them.
You are the ones who brought these guys to power, you are the ones that were calling for wars, and asking for weapons, c’mon people lets just be realistic Kosovo is not Serbia.
Isn't it hypocritical to say that you will only accept negotiations if there are no pre-imposed conditions but then to say that, "we cannot discuss a division because a decision by the international community to divide Kosovo is simply not on the table"?
"Jeremić told daily Blic that Serbia is prepared to accept a continuation of discussions and even a deadline for them to end, but only if they are fair and are not shadowed by predetermined status solutions."
Exactly! Serbia should not be forced to give away her territory, even if no solution is reached immediately. There should be incentives for both parties to reach a decision rather than punishing one side and rewarding the other with the illegal spoils.
The sham of the first round of talks; the refusal of the Albanian camp to even take part in further talks; and Bush's irresponsible promises have brought things to this point.
Time to wrap up and start again under the umbrella of the EU - this time realistically. If violence does start up Nato has the responsibility to handle it swiftly and finally bring security and safe refugee returns to the province.
...So it looks like the new draft resolution is mild enough for Russia to not VETO it...1244 falls down together with the on paper soveregnity of Serbia over Kosovo...new EU mission gets going and with it the decision of the final status remains with EU no need for another UN resolution afterwards...this is a win win situation. Russia saves face as well as USA...borders of Kosovo can't be changed as Kosovo was a constituent part of the Federation of Yugoslavia hence borders are guaranteed...
...So it looks like the new draft resolution is mild enough for Russia to not VETO it...1244 falls down together with the on paper soveregnity of Serbia over Kosovo...new EU mission gets going and with it the decision of the final status remains with EU no need for another UN resolution afterwards...this is a win win situation. Russia saves face as well as USA...borders of Kosovo can't be changed as Kosovo was a constituent part of the Federation of Yugoslavia hence borders are guaranteed...
"Jeremić told daily Blic that Serbia is prepared to accept a continuation of discussions and even a deadline for them to end, but only if they are fair and are not shadowed by predetermined status solutions."
Exactly! Serbia should not be forced to give away her territory, even if no solution is reached immediately. There should be incentives for both parties to reach a decision rather than punishing one side and rewarding the other with the illegal spoils.
The sham of the first round of talks; the refusal of the Albanian camp to even take part in further talks; and Bush's irresponsible promises have brought things to this point.
Time to wrap up and start again under the umbrella of the EU - this time realistically. If violence does start up Nato has the responsibility to handle it swiftly and finally bring security and safe refugee returns to the province.
Isn't it hypocritical to say that you will only accept negotiations if there are no pre-imposed conditions but then to say that, "we cannot discuss a division because a decision by the international community to divide Kosovo is simply not on the table"?
Well thats the Serbian position stated quite clearly and equivocally - no partition and no independence. Cant the Albanians and NATO get it. You cannot rip 15% of a democratic sovereign nation's territory just like that. Its in gross violation of international law and undermines the invollibility of the nation state. Doing so would open a veritiable pandora's box and unleash anarchy not only in the Balkans but also around the world. The K-Albanian side must drop its unrealistic demands for independence and start proper negotiations with Belgrade, just like wat the IRA did here in Ireland. Compromise, compromise, compromise. Both sides must do it in order for any talks to suceed. Likewise Belgrade must make concrete assurances and proposals of its willingness, desire and its ability to integrate 2 million K-Albanians into mainstream Serbian society, i.e.widespread autonomy, jobs and powersharing in Belgrade i.e. seats for K-Albanians in Belgrade government cabinet. Its the only way out of this impasse.
heuschrecker - it would be hypocrital if both parties had the same standing in negotiations. But in this case the province is part of Serbia which is in its right to preserve its territory, while the other party is trying to obtain as much as they can in concessions.
This is not a level playing field, and the stronger side is the one playing within the rules, not the one with the biggest players.
Full supervised autonomy is as much as any country would offer in these circumstances.
I don’t know why kosovonians are wasting there time here, people let them say any thing they want, these are the guys that started how many wars, like 10 of them maybe counting from Balkan Wars and back. Even in these comments you can se how ignorant they can be.
I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that.
I read comments every day, all what it is just, ignorance, what set me off and made me to comment here is yesterdays comment by
Kate: (the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants)
This is ridiculous, and you guys still want to have Kosovo within Serbia c’mon people wake up.
Another thing I’ve noticed, any time somebody mentions war crimes, it is always the same. You guys try to hide behind Milosevics, Karagigs, Mladics, back like they were the only war criminals. On the other side you guys wear t-shirts with their picture on it, have graffiti’s or flayers on almost all the streets supporting war criminals like them.
You are the ones who brought these guys to power, you are the ones that were calling for wars, and asking for weapons, c’mon people lets just be realistic Kosovo is not Serbia.
Jeremić cannot accept partition and then simply giving up on those Serbs living on the wrong side of the new border.
In my opinion negotiations should go along the following lines:
- in the first stage new borders are drawn along ethnic lines - with which Kosovo can become independent at some time. It might be nice to keep to the principle that in the end there should be a balance so that as much Albanians as Serbs end up on the "wrong side" of the border. This might include some enclaves - where the the other side has the right to pass through.
- next come the negotiations about minority rights on both sides. People on the wrong side of the border will very probably have to learn the language of the majority.
- simultaneous are negotiations about property rights - so that the legal vacuum is ended.
- The last is the trust building phase when the agreements should prove to work in reality. After independence seems to me the most logical solution.
To PB I was thinkin exactly the same about the partition option. And actually when I think about it, partition would be the worst possible outcome because it would poison the relations between Serbs and Albanians even further (if that is possible). But I also cannot see the point in having further talks. Both sides are adamant about sticking to their positions. And even if we assume for a moment that the Albanian negotiating team and politicians would agree to anything less than independence, I think that would not even be worth the paper it was signed on. The population at large would not accept it. Another sort of rotation in Kosovo politics would follow like the one that hapenned in 1998 - 99. The LDK which had been asking peacefully but unsuccesfully for Kosovo to be made a republic was simply overshadowed by the KLA which wanted outright independence by any means. If the politicians that have come out of the KLA were to accept anything less than independence (which I don't think will ever happen) other factions would come to the fore and fight. I have never come across any Albanian in Kosovo who would say: "Yes, broad autonomy under Serb sovereignty is the way forward." In other words there is simply no popular support among Kosovo Albanians for anything but independence. This is my reading of the situation. And although I do believe that Kosovo will become independent, the tiny, tiny chance that it might not, really scares me.
Like my fellow Irishman Niall O'Doherty, I know what the consequences are when a country is partitioned because a majority in one corner of it do not identify with the overall majority. In the case of Ireland it resulted in decades of discrimination and repression of the minority in the partitioned mini-state. Ultimately it gave rise to years of civil conflict. Serbia must maintain its position on its sovereign territory while conceding considerable autonomy to the Albanians of Kosovo. In turn, the Albanians have to give up on the potentially disastrous aim of independence.
Rten Kinsey - you're right. Serbia isn't like the Kosovo Albanians or the Albanians. As for starting wars, it's very convenient to try to rewrite history but the facts are thus - In Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo, the first shots fired in anger were not fired by a Serb.
As for Kosovo, the KLA targeted the Serbs (with the blessing of the USA). What was the Serbian army going to do? The 5000 albanians who died ni that war died as a result of KLA actions. If the KLA had not started trouble, there would never have been a war in Kosovo.
Oh great, thanks b92 for censuring my comment yes you have totally changed the sense and the point of my comment…just another fact of ignorance to the others that thing different than you….
This is ridiculous... No one has been offering serbia the division of Kosovo. When they say "we disagree with division of K" they are in fact saying: "Please offer us division of K" I'm afraid no one is thinking of making that offer.
Personally I think that it will take time for Kosovan Albanians and Kosovan Serbs to live together.
I am for a partition of Kosova/o even though it will be painful for some residents living in "wrong"sides.But we have EU so they should react very fast and help citizens of Kosova/o.
Reading every news,speaking to people in Kosova/o,after visiting them this year I saw that relations between two nations are still tense.I think that the best solution is partition.
This will be the main topic during the new negotiations.
You can talk all day about "Kosovo is Serbia",etc,but something got to give for Kosovan Albanians.From a promised full independence to now a greater autonomy,this is a nightmare for us Albanians.
But I think Serbs are becoming more greedy so they are saying it won't be a partition of Kosova'o!!!
I am hoping for a peaceful solution,we saw enough wars. Kosovan Albanians have a right to have a slice of cake,after what happened in 1999.
West is loosing his credibility,they are playing with lives of Kosovans,how long Kosovan Albanians will be patient only God knows!!!
All our lives we had to live under someone,is it about time we take control of our lives.(I don't mean war)
Kate
It is absurd to claim that the population of Kosovo has doubled since 1999. Where did the additional 1 million come from? I hope you are not suggesting Albania as the country of provenance because I would have noticed if one third of my country's population dissapeared in 6 -7 years. Maybe you should look at the demographic statistics of Yugoslavia concerning the population of Kosovo.
And to PB: the official death toll for Kosovo Albanians is more than 10 000 and not 5 000 as you claim. There are still more than 2 400 missing and most people suspect that their bodies were burried somewhere in Serbia in a massgrave. Remember Batanica? And I do not see how the KLA can be responsible for the Serb forces killing Albanian civilians. Yes maybe the KLA did fire the first shots in the 1998 - 99 war, but that was in response to the policies of Milosevic (although you may dissagree with that). But still how does that excuse the Serb forces from their role in killing that many civilians?
Maybe you should have a look at the evidence that has come out of the trials in the ICTY. There have been many Serbs officers who have come out and told what happened. Or will you simply dismiss the ICTY as a Western ploy to get at Serbia?
Rten Kinsey - You can't accuse B92 of being biased. They publish comments from people with vastly opposing views. Maybe the bit that was cut out was offensive. Even more offensive than accusing me of ignorance for stating a fact (that the population of Kosovo has swelled from 1m to 2m and most likely there had been an influx from other countries).
teni - Okay, so the increase from 1m to 2m has been over a longer period of time than since 1999, but I was trying to make the point (admittedly badly) that the population has swelled and undoubtedly includes outside elements there to stoke up trouble or commit crime.
Even though I agree with very little of your political stance, thank you at least for your respect and politeness.
I am certain that you would agree that any criminals coming in to Kosovo should be kicked out again if they do start or incite any violence. And that any violent elements should be quelled immediately.
Regardless of what happens to Kosovo, any sane person would want to avoid violence.
I do not live in Kosovo, and I am certain for a fact that there are many good people there, and many who don't want violence. But as a European this issue affects me directly and I do not want to see the US having the right to chop off sovereign territory and hand it to any group of people.
I also have a real problem with the way that Kosovo was supposed to be 'protected' by the UN and yet rapings, killings and kidnappings have gone on in their thousands, and 14th Century churches torn apart so savagely. This is my heritage too.
Teni - UN suggests roughly 10,000 were killed in Kosovo but from that figure, nearly 3000 were Serbs. OK 7/8000 Albanians. i'm not making light of that fact by the way.
I disagree about the partition option. Just as the Albanians do not want to live under Serbian rule, neither do the Serbs in northern Kosovo want to live under Albanian rule due to the intimidation, killings etc of civilians. As neither side want to live with each other, Kosovo should be partitioned.
Serban army killing civilians - NO excuse whatsoever. I agree with the international court that whoever was responsible should be made to answer for their actions in court, if guilty, then jailed appropriately. that must extend to all sides though and what Serbia has seen so far is double standards to say the least , the best example being Naser Oric - 2 years in jail when everyone knows he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of serbs in the villages surrounding srebrenica. Also , why do albanian leaders receive preferential treatment from the courts i.e. wy are they allowed bail when serbian defendants have to wait in prison before their trial?? If we want to solve the issues then a truthful discussion needs to take place, and that involves reassessing the wars in the balkans and respective countries roles. It was convenient for the USA and western europe to portray Serbia as a genocidal aggressor when it suited them, a good example being the KLA. months before the war in Kosovo started the KLA were a terroroist organisation in the USA, suddenly it's a bunch of freedom fighters!! Why? Because that situation suited the US. They told everyone when the war started that the serbs in the first couple of months had managed to kill 100,000 albanians - Pure propoganda. Same in bosnia. estimaed deaths 200,000 +. now that figure is less than half that - pure guess work.
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
Kate: "rapings, killings... in their thousands..."
Not a single serb has been raped since NATO deployment. The number of killed serbs is under 30... Not that this is a small number, but simply talking about thousands makes this forum a joke... As a Serb, you're more likely to get killed in Serbia than in Kosovo. If you want to ease your consciences by talking about thousands of rapes, that is your problem. The only real problem the serbs face in Kosovo is freedom of movement. That is a real problem and will probably last for quite a long time.
Please Kate , I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included. You said it yourself that you don't live in Kosova and from your writing I can tell that you have never stepped a foot in country. You have no right to write melicious lies. B92 should censor your commets ,period. I can give you facts on the ground because I live and work in high place where I take part in very important meeting including with 10 UNSC Ambasadors and I have personally offered evidence on this site about such meetings.
To Kate,
I am still at a loss as to where you get your info on the population and the crimes committed in Kosovo.
One explanation is that the Kosovo Albanians have a much higher growth rate than the Serbs who actually have one of the lowest in Europe, as far as I know. I don't see how one can blame the Albanians for that although the SANU memorandum in the 1980s did just that, accusing the Albanians of demographic genocide!
As for the crimes: I know that the Albanians have committed crimes against the Serbs and I condem that. But you must remember what the Serbs did there: the mass rapes and killings. I went to Kosovo after the war and all I saw on the way from Bllace to Pristina were destroyed villages. And before you say anything: no! it was not because of NATO bombings!!! It was the Serb army. Nevertheless a criminal is a criminal and should be punished for it regardless of ethnicity.
As for the violence, well opinnions diverge on that. If that violence is directed towards the Serb army or police (in the unlikely event they would return to Kosovo) I would support it 100%. After all one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter! My Serb friends here must know that (think of the Black Hand etc).
And if you, as a European have a stake in Kosovo consider this: would it be better for Kosovo to remain part of Serbia and have a never ending insurgency or for it to get indepence.
Of course I believe Kosovo has the right to be independent, but even if you look at it in practical terms, independence would be better.
Kate:
"rapings, killings and kidnappings "
give us a proof of any Serbian raped since NATO took control of Kosova ? It's the same song serbs cried during Milosevic "raping , raping raping ,.... “without ever proving anything. Of course the song has been played thousands of times by RTS, written in every serbian book and serbs really believe on it. That’s what I call a MYTH. You fail to mention thousands of albanian women raped by serbian military? Hold on I know your answer "NATO raped albanian women and blamed on serbs"
to B92 I appreciate if you post my comment on its entirety.
for ahmet isufi just go to this link and you can see the whole story of the damaged orthodox churches in kosovo during the march 2004 riots. http://www.kosovo.net/news_pogrom.html
"I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included."
Um, I think you asked this at one point last week or something.
1. Holy Trinity Monastery near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch01.html
2. Church of the Holy Virgin near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch02.html
3. St. Mark's of Korisa Monastery near Prizren (15th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch03.html
4. St. Gabriel Monastery near Vitina (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch04.html
5. Devic Monastery near Srbica (15th cetnury) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch05.html
6. Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren (12th century) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Ljevis
How you a) claim to live in Kosovo, b) claim to know every inside detail going on in Kosovo, and c) still be ignorant of this, is something I probably will never understand.
Laki - strange how you focus on the rapes and not the killings and kidnappings which you don't even mention. There were various UN reports of nuns and other women being raped after Nato took over Kosovo. Are you telling me that none of these happened?
That the murderous brutality against Serbian and other civilians by the KLA never took place?
Everyone knows that it did - it was very well documented.
By the way, to everyone here, I equally condemn the horrendous rapes, killings and brutality against Albanian and other civilians as well. No matter who carried out which crimes or who was the victim - they are all as bad as each other.
But we are talking about the situation following Kosovo being 'liberated' by Nato, and in its current state today during the bid for independence.
Please Tatiana & Co, stop apointing links to your propaganda and very rhetoric speeches from your beloved priests about albanians...
Kosova is own country with bittred k-serbs, hopefully they will come to senses some day!
Peace!
ahmet maybe you are blind if you are saying you are working with ambassadors and you dont know anything about burned churhes during the march 2004 albanian riots. here is a list my friend***
Prizren:
Our Lady of Ljeviš Cathedral (Bogorodica Ljeviška), 12th century was burned down on March 17
Church of Saint Salvation (Sveti Spas), 14th century
St. Hieromartyr George's Cathedral (Sv. velikomučenika Đorđa), 1887 housing the 14th century icon of Mary and an 18th century iconostasis
Monastery of Saint Archangels from the 14th century
Church of St. George Runović, 15th century with 16th century iconostasis gates
Raška-Prizren Archdiocese
Building of the Sts. Cyrill and Methodius Orthodox Seminary, 1880, sacked
Peć:
Church of St. John the Baptist (Svetog Jovana Preteče i Krstitelja) set on fire March 17 in Pećka Banja village
Belo Polje village church of St. Nicholas, 19th century
Đakovica: Church of Our Lord's Ascension (Uspenja Gospodnjeg), 19th century, torched along with the parochial residence on March 17. Reports of Albanians clearing the ruins of the Church of the Holy Trinity, destroyed in 1999
Uroševac: Church of St. Tzar Uroš
Kosovo Polje:
Saint Nicholas in Kosovo Polje town, 19th century
Bresje village church of St. Catherine, 19th century
Gnjilane: Church of St. Nicholas, 1861
Priština: Church of St. Nicholas, 19th century, damaged and sacked
Vučitrn: Church of St. Elijah, burned down
Southern Kosovska Mitrovica: Church of Saint Sava set afire in the morning of March 18, adjoining Orthodox cemetery desecrated
Srbica: Devič Monastery, nuns evacuated by Danish soldiers, monastery pillaged and torched
Štimlje: Church of St. Archangel Michael set on fire on March 19
Orahovac: Bela Crkva and Brnjak village churches burnt
Vitina: Two destroyed churches, in town and in village of Donja Slapa?nica
Obilić: Church set afire
when will Albanians stop hiding behind ficticious nick-names like "Rten Kinsey" and others...
personally I would agree wih that official standpoint: there is no need to divide something here, since it is clear to whom this land belongs. so, after the US finally get it, they should tell albanians to accept broad autonomy, since there won´t be a better offer.
Why is it that the supporters of the Serbian side here back up their claims with facts, and the albanian supporters try to avoid, or deny the facts? The Serbs have truth on their side, that is the answer. Ahmet, are you really that ignorant about the burning and destruction of ancient Serbian Holy sites, is your head that far in the sand, or are you being paid by Hollbrooke and company to spread your propoganda here? The evidence is right under your nose and it is overwhelming. I would be ashamed if my people did this to ancient holy sites. What you are destroying is art and history, just like the Taliban did when they blew up the Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan. The Kosovo albanians have shown that they are much closer to the Taliban than to Europeans.
I would add to Dragan's statement the following caveat: we are quick to point out, list, and blame Albanians for the destruction of Serbian reliigous sites throughout Kosovo. Yet at the same time, we need to also remember that non-Orthodox sites have been targeted and destroyed by Milosevic's forces too. I especially deplored the destruction and desecration of Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren, but I would have been equally appalled if the Sinan Ali Pasha mosque in Prizren were destroyed.
In our efforts to remind some people of the obvious act of violence taking place right under their nose, let's not ignore the destruction of sites that was committed in the name of our religion too. If we're going to take the moral high ground (and we have every right to since 1999)) let's make sure we're not pushed off that moral highground due to oversight or double-standards.
Jovan you are very naive. Do you really expect that if some other country, say the US, told the Albanian leaders to accept broad autonomy the Albanian people would accept it? Well clearly you have no idea about the history of Kosovo/a. Need I remind you that even when there was no country in the world that backed the Kosovo/a Albanians for their independence drive, even when under such conditions where the Albanians had no allies and they were continuously repressed they never stopped working for independence?
You are very naive if you fail to see this. This has nothing to do with convincing the politicians to give up independence, since the will for independence does not come from the politicians down to the people but it goes from the people to the politicians.
Albanians have already been in the situation where nobody in the world would listen to them, where they were crushed militarily but that never crushed their desire for independence. Nothing will.
Kosovo/a under Serbia will not only be a nightmare for Albanians but also for the Serbs not only living in Kosovo/a but in Serbia as well. There will never be sincere relations between us, and both our nations will do everything to subdue the other if we're left under the same roof. History has proven it through thousands of years.
Also to those Serbs that support partition, if partition happens and the Serb part joins Serbia what would they think about the Albanian part joining Albania?
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
(PB, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:26)
I know its fashionable to lay blame on a dead leader who was caught in the middle of the former Yugoslavia falling apart. Read the ICTY Milosevic transcripts in his own words and then make your judgement on what kind of "dirt" he really is.
Branco Covic,
Imagine those chutches would still be there intact..How much would they be visited by Serbs, who are not religious at all?
Would they be visited by those Serbs, who committed all those horrible crimes to get absolution for their crimes?
This is nothing but a chess game in which the West is trying to improve its position by maneuvering things around but they can't break through really. For the simple reason that the rule of law is not on their side. They know it and that's why we are seeing their useless posturing, economic duress and bullying being replaced with new and new and new strategies that ultimately are going to fail as well. Nobody in Serbia has any sympathy or illusions about the West. On the contrary. This is not going to change for a very long time. For the obvious reasons. Mr Jeremic is a smart man and the government is playing its strenghts extremly well I would say. The West has been now reduced to pure bluffing.
Fine! Go and join Albania. I would like to see nations solidified. Isn't it ridiculous, to have 2 nations of Albanians, why? Would Albanians like to see 2 or 3 Serbian nations? It's just ridiculous.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution for Kosovo between Serbia and it's Albanian population. I am not pro Serb or Albanian but, at the present Kosovo leagally belongs to Serbia (fact). I propose a solution where neither side has control of the province. It should just be made a UN Nation, contolled, overseen, mandated, etc., by the UN. Isn't that perfect? All sides win and all sides lose. They both deserve it. I believe the EU/UN is working towards something like this. The US has stepped away from the Balkan scenerio. that is obvious.
Could an Albanian blogger here please congratulate us Serbs for our great perfomance in the tennis world? You must admit, we are phenoms. Zivela Srbija. I would like to see Albanians celebrating their sports victories too. We are all pretty much the same. The silly differnces, exploited by our politicians, have made us enemys. I have nothing against Albanians.
Rten Kinsey, the propaganda machine is still working against Serb and against justice and common sense.
You wrote:" I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that."
Would you tell me when did you arrive to Kosovo? What do you know about terror spread in Kosovo by Albanian extremists, what do you know about war propaganda of 1999?
And same propaganda is still used in Western media. At the end of most of reports you can find the following:
"Independent estimates put the civilian death toll at between 7,500 and 12,000, mostly Albanians. About a million was forced by Serb army to leave Kosovo."
I would like to refresh your memory and recall for you world news from 1999.
"A week before the bombings began, David Scheffer, U.S. State Department ambassador at large for war crime issues, announced that "we have upwards of about 100,000 [ethnic Albanian] men that we cannot account for" in Kosovo. A month later, the State Department claimed that up to 500,000 Kosovo Albanians were missing and feared dead."
How do you like it?
"Before the end of the air campaign, British Foreign Office Minister Geoff Hoon said that "in more than 100 massacres" some 10,000 ethnic Albanians had been killed (averaging 100 victims per massacre). Though substantially reduced from the 100,000 to 500,000 bandied about by U.S. officials, this was still a considerable number."
Sounds better?
"The FBI team returned home, oddly with not a word to say about their investigation. Months later, the London Financial Times reported that the FBI had found not thousands but 200 bodies at 30 sites."
Perhaps the FBI experts were poorly trained!
"As reported in the Times of London (October 31), one Spanish forensic expert, Emilio Perez Puhola, acknowledged that his team did not find even
one mass grave. He dismissed the widely publicized references about mass graves as being part of the "machinery of war propaganda."
Apparently a Serb agent !
"As of November 1999, the total number of bodies that the Western grave diggers claimed to have discovered was 2,108, "and not all of them necessarily war crimes victims," according to a story in the Wall Street Journal (December 31)."
And the worst kind of KLA propaganda amplified by western media, main Trepca.
"As reported by U.S. and NATO officials, the Serbs threw 1,000 or more bodies down the shafts or disposed of them in the mine's vats of hydrochloric acid. In October 1999, the ICTY released the findings of Western forensic teams investigating Trepca. Not a single body was found in the mine shafts, nor was there any evidence that the vats had ever been used in an attempt to dissolve human remains."
120000 private homes have been burned to the ground along with mosques. You cry about your ancient religious sites which is understandable to some point. But as long as Serbs don't accept the responsibility for the massive destruction and pay for the damages, most of the Albanians will feel no pitiness for the religious sites, which aided and blessed some of the worst Serbian war criminals. The damage estimate is on my desk, which we will soon send it to Serbia, and if Serbia is forced Serbia to pay, your country will be bancrupt for a decade.
The problem is that if Kosovo is given independents that would destabilize the whole region.
If Kosovo is given independence then Republika Srpska will join Serbia. That is why the west has not given kosovo independence.
The best outcome would be to partition Kosovo and unite Republika Srpska with Serbia.
Then every body wins!!!
Zivela Srbija
To: brako qoviq,
you mentioned sties built during milosheviq era, such as Gjakova/Dakovica nad you listed sites vandalized during march riots. this is not what i chellenged you guys , you know very well about my challenge about the truth and not fiction. The only tru coment came from ; (MIKE, Thursday, 5 July, 16:58), Mike listed six ancient orthodox churches and I fully agree with him and by the way Mike I knew about these as well but I was waiting to hear from an honest to god individual to tell the truth, and not like others writing all the time as follows: " Over 100 shurches destroyed". Again I thank you Mike for your honesty and I wish everyone on this site be as honest as you are.By the way out of six churches mentioned by Mike : 2 are badly damaged, 2 are ttaly destroyed and 2 are vandalized.
Konstantin Gregovic - It's irrelevant what the ICTY transcripts say. He claimed whilst he was in jail to be a pauper when the reality couldn't have been further from the truth with millions found in bank accounts after his death and no doubt countless millions not yet found.
Besides the fact that he made a fortune with his cronies, he sold out his own people in croatia. no doubt the wily Tudjman convinced him to pull back with the agreement to carve up bosnia instead between them. what a fool.
So i stand by my original statement. he got what he deserved. he was a criminal.
starideda my dear you can not expect the albanians to praise the likes of ana ivanovic, novak djokovic and jelena jankovic who all are in the limelight of the tennis world especially in the wimbledon nowadays. pretty ana and young djokovic made serbians proud. GREAT GAMES. watch them and cool a bit guys.
Yes, I am Albanian and I think Serbia has great tennis players. It has also great basketball payers and I always liked its soccer team.
Of course, I always rooted for the other team, but hey, "give to the devil his due", right. Hahaha.
Good game, guys. I sincerely wish to Serbia a great future in sports.
With your logic of chopping up sovereign countries, US would not exist today. They would never dare to chop up the British Kingdom in 1776.
(Marco, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:37)
...So it looks like the new draft resolution is mild enough for Russia to not VETO it...1244 falls down together with the on paper soveregnity of Serbia over Kosovo...new EU mission gets going and with it the decision of the final status remains with EU no need for another UN resolution afterwards...this is a win win situation. Russia saves face as well as USA...borders of Kosovo can't be changed as Kosovo was a constituent part of the Federation of Yugoslavia hence borders are guaranteed...
"Jeremić told daily Blic that Serbia is prepared to accept a continuation of discussions and even a deadline for them to end, but only if they are fair and are not shadowed by predetermined status solutions."
Exactly! Serbia should not be forced to give away her territory, even if no solution is reached immediately. There should be incentives for both parties to reach a decision rather than punishing one side and rewarding the other with the illegal spoils.
The sham of the first round of talks; the refusal of the Albanian camp to even take part in further talks; and Bush's irresponsible promises have brought things to this point.
Time to wrap up and start again under the umbrella of the EU - this time realistically. If violence does start up Nato has the responsibility to handle it swiftly and finally bring security and safe refugee returns to the province.
Isn't it hypocritical to say that you will only accept negotiations if there are no pre-imposed conditions but then to say that, "we cannot discuss a division because a decision by the international community to divide Kosovo is simply not on the table"?
Well thats the Serbian position stated quite clearly and equivocally - no partition and no independence. Cant the Albanians and NATO get it. You cannot rip 15% of a democratic sovereign nation's territory just like that. Its in gross violation of international law and undermines the invollibility of the nation state. Doing so would open a veritiable pandora's box and unleash anarchy not only in the Balkans but also around the world. The K-Albanian side must drop its unrealistic demands for independence and start proper negotiations with Belgrade, just like wat the IRA did here in Ireland. Compromise, compromise, compromise. Both sides must do it in order for any talks to suceed. Likewise Belgrade must make concrete assurances and proposals of its willingness, desire and its ability to integrate 2 million K-Albanians into mainstream Serbian society, i.e.widespread autonomy, jobs and powersharing in Belgrade i.e. seats for K-Albanians in Belgrade government cabinet. Its the only way out of this impasse.
heuschrecker - it would be hypocrital if both parties had the same standing in negotiations. But in this case the province is part of Serbia which is in its right to preserve its territory, while the other party is trying to obtain as much as they can in concessions.
This is not a level playing field, and the stronger side is the one playing within the rules, not the one with the biggest players.
Full supervised autonomy is as much as any country would offer in these circumstances.
I don’t know why kosovonians are wasting there time here, people let them say any thing they want, these are the guys that started how many wars, like 10 of them maybe counting from Balkan Wars and back. Even in these comments you can se how ignorant they can be.
I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that.
I read comments every day, all what it is just, ignorance, what set me off and made me to comment here is yesterdays comment by
Kate: (the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants)
This is ridiculous, and you guys still want to have Kosovo within Serbia c’mon people wake up.
Another thing I’ve noticed, any time somebody mentions war crimes, it is always the same. You guys try to hide behind Milosevics, Karagigs, Mladics, back like they were the only war criminals. On the other side you guys wear t-shirts with their picture on it, have graffiti’s or flayers on almost all the streets supporting war criminals like them.
You are the ones who brought these guys to power, you are the ones that were calling for wars, and asking for weapons, c’mon people lets just be realistic Kosovo is not Serbia.
Jeremić cannot accept partition and then simply giving up on those Serbs living on the wrong side of the new border.
In my opinion negotiations should go along the following lines:
- in the first stage new borders are drawn along ethnic lines - with which Kosovo can become independent at some time. It might be nice to keep to the principle that in the end there should be a balance so that as much Albanians as Serbs end up on the "wrong side" of the border. This might include some enclaves - where the the other side has the right to pass through.
- next come the negotiations about minority rights on both sides. People on the wrong side of the border will very probably have to learn the language of the majority.
- simultaneous are negotiations about property rights - so that the legal vacuum is ended.
- The last is the trust building phase when the agreements should prove to work in reality. After independence seems to me the most logical solution.
To PB I was thinkin exactly the same about the partition option. And actually when I think about it, partition would be the worst possible outcome because it would poison the relations between Serbs and Albanians even further (if that is possible). But I also cannot see the point in having further talks. Both sides are adamant about sticking to their positions. And even if we assume for a moment that the Albanian negotiating team and politicians would agree to anything less than independence, I think that would not even be worth the paper it was signed on. The population at large would not accept it. Another sort of rotation in Kosovo politics would follow like the one that hapenned in 1998 - 99. The LDK which had been asking peacefully but unsuccesfully for Kosovo to be made a republic was simply overshadowed by the KLA which wanted outright independence by any means. If the politicians that have come out of the KLA were to accept anything less than independence (which I don't think will ever happen) other factions would come to the fore and fight. I have never come across any Albanian in Kosovo who would say: "Yes, broad autonomy under Serb sovereignty is the way forward." In other words there is simply no popular support among Kosovo Albanians for anything but independence. This is my reading of the situation. And although I do believe that Kosovo will become independent, the tiny, tiny chance that it might not, really scares me.
Like my fellow Irishman Niall O'Doherty, I know what the consequences are when a country is partitioned because a majority in one corner of it do not identify with the overall majority. In the case of Ireland it resulted in decades of discrimination and repression of the minority in the partitioned mini-state. Ultimately it gave rise to years of civil conflict. Serbia must maintain its position on its sovereign territory while conceding considerable autonomy to the Albanians of Kosovo. In turn, the Albanians have to give up on the potentially disastrous aim of independence.
Rten Kinsey - you're right. Serbia isn't like the Kosovo Albanians or the Albanians. As for starting wars, it's very convenient to try to rewrite history but the facts are thus - In Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo, the first shots fired in anger were not fired by a Serb.
As for Kosovo, the KLA targeted the Serbs (with the blessing of the USA). What was the Serbian army going to do? The 5000 albanians who died ni that war died as a result of KLA actions. If the KLA had not started trouble, there would never have been a war in Kosovo.
Oh great, thanks b92 for censuring my comment yes you have totally changed the sense and the point of my comment…just another fact of ignorance to the others that thing different than you….
This is ridiculous... No one has been offering serbia the division of Kosovo. When they say "we disagree with division of K" they are in fact saying: "Please offer us division of K" I'm afraid no one is thinking of making that offer.
Personally I think that it will take time for Kosovan Albanians and Kosovan Serbs to live together.
I am for a partition of Kosova/o even though it will be painful for some residents living in "wrong"sides.But we have EU so they should react very fast and help citizens of Kosova/o.
Reading every news,speaking to people in Kosova/o,after visiting them this year I saw that relations between two nations are still tense.I think that the best solution is partition.
This will be the main topic during the new negotiations.
You can talk all day about "Kosovo is Serbia",etc,but something got to give for Kosovan Albanians.From a promised full independence to now a greater autonomy,this is a nightmare for us Albanians.
But I think Serbs are becoming more greedy so they are saying it won't be a partition of Kosova'o!!!
I am hoping for a peaceful solution,we saw enough wars. Kosovan Albanians have a right to have a slice of cake,after what happened in 1999.
West is loosing his credibility,they are playing with lives of Kosovans,how long Kosovan Albanians will be patient only God knows!!!
All our lives we had to live under someone,is it about time we take control of our lives.(I don't mean war)
Kate
It is absurd to claim that the population of Kosovo has doubled since 1999. Where did the additional 1 million come from? I hope you are not suggesting Albania as the country of provenance because I would have noticed if one third of my country's population dissapeared in 6 -7 years. Maybe you should look at the demographic statistics of Yugoslavia concerning the population of Kosovo.
And to PB: the official death toll for Kosovo Albanians is more than 10 000 and not 5 000 as you claim. There are still more than 2 400 missing and most people suspect that their bodies were burried somewhere in Serbia in a massgrave. Remember Batanica? And I do not see how the KLA can be responsible for the Serb forces killing Albanian civilians. Yes maybe the KLA did fire the first shots in the 1998 - 99 war, but that was in response to the policies of Milosevic (although you may dissagree with that). But still how does that excuse the Serb forces from their role in killing that many civilians?
Maybe you should have a look at the evidence that has come out of the trials in the ICTY. There have been many Serbs officers who have come out and told what happened. Or will you simply dismiss the ICTY as a Western ploy to get at Serbia?
Rten Kinsey - You can't accuse B92 of being biased. They publish comments from people with vastly opposing views. Maybe the bit that was cut out was offensive. Even more offensive than accusing me of ignorance for stating a fact (that the population of Kosovo has swelled from 1m to 2m and most likely there had been an influx from other countries).
teni - Okay, so the increase from 1m to 2m has been over a longer period of time than since 1999, but I was trying to make the point (admittedly badly) that the population has swelled and undoubtedly includes outside elements there to stoke up trouble or commit crime.
Even though I agree with very little of your political stance, thank you at least for your respect and politeness.
I am certain that you would agree that any criminals coming in to Kosovo should be kicked out again if they do start or incite any violence. And that any violent elements should be quelled immediately.
Regardless of what happens to Kosovo, any sane person would want to avoid violence.
I do not live in Kosovo, and I am certain for a fact that there are many good people there, and many who don't want violence. But as a European this issue affects me directly and I do not want to see the US having the right to chop off sovereign territory and hand it to any group of people.
I also have a real problem with the way that Kosovo was supposed to be 'protected' by the UN and yet rapings, killings and kidnappings have gone on in their thousands, and 14th Century churches torn apart so savagely. This is my heritage too.
Teni - UN suggests roughly 10,000 were killed in Kosovo but from that figure, nearly 3000 were Serbs. OK 7/8000 Albanians. i'm not making light of that fact by the way.
I disagree about the partition option. Just as the Albanians do not want to live under Serbian rule, neither do the Serbs in northern Kosovo want to live under Albanian rule due to the intimidation, killings etc of civilians. As neither side want to live with each other, Kosovo should be partitioned.
Serban army killing civilians - NO excuse whatsoever. I agree with the international court that whoever was responsible should be made to answer for their actions in court, if guilty, then jailed appropriately. that must extend to all sides though and what Serbia has seen so far is double standards to say the least , the best example being Naser Oric - 2 years in jail when everyone knows he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of serbs in the villages surrounding srebrenica. Also , why do albanian leaders receive preferential treatment from the courts i.e. wy are they allowed bail when serbian defendants have to wait in prison before their trial?? If we want to solve the issues then a truthful discussion needs to take place, and that involves reassessing the wars in the balkans and respective countries roles. It was convenient for the USA and western europe to portray Serbia as a genocidal aggressor when it suited them, a good example being the KLA. months before the war in Kosovo started the KLA were a terroroist organisation in the USA, suddenly it's a bunch of freedom fighters!! Why? Because that situation suited the US. They told everyone when the war started that the serbs in the first couple of months had managed to kill 100,000 albanians - Pure propoganda. Same in bosnia. estimaed deaths 200,000 +. now that figure is less than half that - pure guess work.
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
Kate: "rapings, killings... in their thousands..."
Not a single serb has been raped since NATO deployment. The number of killed serbs is under 30... Not that this is a small number, but simply talking about thousands makes this forum a joke... As a Serb, you're more likely to get killed in Serbia than in Kosovo. If you want to ease your consciences by talking about thousands of rapes, that is your problem. The only real problem the serbs face in Kosovo is freedom of movement. That is a real problem and will probably last for quite a long time.
Please Kate , I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included. You said it yourself that you don't live in Kosova and from your writing I can tell that you have never stepped a foot in country. You have no right to write melicious lies. B92 should censor your commets ,period. I can give you facts on the ground because I live and work in high place where I take part in very important meeting including with 10 UNSC Ambasadors and I have personally offered evidence on this site about such meetings.
To Kate,
I am still at a loss as to where you get your info on the population and the crimes committed in Kosovo.
One explanation is that the Kosovo Albanians have a much higher growth rate than the Serbs who actually have one of the lowest in Europe, as far as I know. I don't see how one can blame the Albanians for that although the SANU memorandum in the 1980s did just that, accusing the Albanians of demographic genocide!
As for the crimes: I know that the Albanians have committed crimes against the Serbs and I condem that. But you must remember what the Serbs did there: the mass rapes and killings. I went to Kosovo after the war and all I saw on the way from Bllace to Pristina were destroyed villages. And before you say anything: no! it was not because of NATO bombings!!! It was the Serb army. Nevertheless a criminal is a criminal and should be punished for it regardless of ethnicity.
As for the violence, well opinnions diverge on that. If that violence is directed towards the Serb army or police (in the unlikely event they would return to Kosovo) I would support it 100%. After all one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter! My Serb friends here must know that (think of the Black Hand etc).
And if you, as a European have a stake in Kosovo consider this: would it be better for Kosovo to remain part of Serbia and have a never ending insurgency or for it to get indepence.
Of course I believe Kosovo has the right to be independent, but even if you look at it in practical terms, independence would be better.
Kate:
"rapings, killings and kidnappings "
give us a proof of any Serbian raped since NATO took control of Kosova ? It's the same song serbs cried during Milosevic "raping , raping raping ,.... “without ever proving anything. Of course the song has been played thousands of times by RTS, written in every serbian book and serbs really believe on it. That’s what I call a MYTH. You fail to mention thousands of albanian women raped by serbian military? Hold on I know your answer "NATO raped albanian women and blamed on serbs"
to B92 I appreciate if you post my comment on its entirety.
for ahmet isufi just go to this link and you can see the whole story of the damaged orthodox churches in kosovo during the march 2004 riots. http://www.kosovo.net/news_pogrom.html
"I am dying to know those 14 century orthodox churches torn apart so savagly that you are talking about, please just name a few if you are able to with location included."
Um, I think you asked this at one point last week or something.
1. Holy Trinity Monastery near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch01.html
2. Church of the Holy Virgin near Suva Reka (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch02.html
3. St. Mark's of Korisa Monastery near Prizren (15th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch03.html
4. St. Gabriel Monastery near Vitina (14th century) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch04.html
5. Devic Monastery near Srbica (15th cetnury) http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/crucified/churches/ch05.html
6. Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren (12th century) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Ljevis
How you a) claim to live in Kosovo, b) claim to know every inside detail going on in Kosovo, and c) still be ignorant of this, is something I probably will never understand.
Laki - strange how you focus on the rapes and not the killings and kidnappings which you don't even mention. There were various UN reports of nuns and other women being raped after Nato took over Kosovo. Are you telling me that none of these happened?
That the murderous brutality against Serbian and other civilians by the KLA never took place?
Everyone knows that it did - it was very well documented.
By the way, to everyone here, I equally condemn the horrendous rapes, killings and brutality against Albanian and other civilians as well. No matter who carried out which crimes or who was the victim - they are all as bad as each other.
But we are talking about the situation following Kosovo being 'liberated' by Nato, and in its current state today during the bid for independence.
Please Tatiana & Co, stop apointing links to your propaganda and very rhetoric speeches from your beloved priests about albanians...
Kosova is own country with bittred k-serbs, hopefully they will come to senses some day!
Peace!
ahmet maybe you are blind if you are saying you are working with ambassadors and you dont know anything about burned churhes during the march 2004 albanian riots. here is a list my friend***
Prizren:
Our Lady of Ljeviš Cathedral (Bogorodica Ljeviška), 12th century was burned down on March 17
Church of Saint Salvation (Sveti Spas), 14th century
St. Hieromartyr George's Cathedral (Sv. velikomučenika Đorđa), 1887 housing the 14th century icon of Mary and an 18th century iconostasis
Monastery of Saint Archangels from the 14th century
Church of St. George Runović, 15th century with 16th century iconostasis gates
Raška-Prizren Archdiocese
Building of the Sts. Cyrill and Methodius Orthodox Seminary, 1880, sacked
Peć:
Church of St. John the Baptist (Svetog Jovana Preteče i Krstitelja) set on fire March 17 in Pećka Banja village
Belo Polje village church of St. Nicholas, 19th century
Đakovica: Church of Our Lord's Ascension (Uspenja Gospodnjeg), 19th century, torched along with the parochial residence on March 17. Reports of Albanians clearing the ruins of the Church of the Holy Trinity, destroyed in 1999
Uroševac: Church of St. Tzar Uroš
Kosovo Polje:
Saint Nicholas in Kosovo Polje town, 19th century
Bresje village church of St. Catherine, 19th century
Gnjilane: Church of St. Nicholas, 1861
Priština: Church of St. Nicholas, 19th century, damaged and sacked
Vučitrn: Church of St. Elijah, burned down
Southern Kosovska Mitrovica: Church of Saint Sava set afire in the morning of March 18, adjoining Orthodox cemetery desecrated
Srbica: Devič Monastery, nuns evacuated by Danish soldiers, monastery pillaged and torched
Štimlje: Church of St. Archangel Michael set on fire on March 19
Orahovac: Bela Crkva and Brnjak village churches burnt
Vitina: Two destroyed churches, in town and in village of Donja Slapa?nica
Obilić: Church set afire
when will Albanians stop hiding behind ficticious nick-names like "Rten Kinsey" and others...
personally I would agree wih that official standpoint: there is no need to divide something here, since it is clear to whom this land belongs. so, after the US finally get it, they should tell albanians to accept broad autonomy, since there won´t be a better offer.
Why is it that the supporters of the Serbian side here back up their claims with facts, and the albanian supporters try to avoid, or deny the facts? The Serbs have truth on their side, that is the answer. Ahmet, are you really that ignorant about the burning and destruction of ancient Serbian Holy sites, is your head that far in the sand, or are you being paid by Hollbrooke and company to spread your propoganda here? The evidence is right under your nose and it is overwhelming. I would be ashamed if my people did this to ancient holy sites. What you are destroying is art and history, just like the Taliban did when they blew up the Buddhist monuments in Afghanistan. The Kosovo albanians have shown that they are much closer to the Taliban than to Europeans.
I would add to Dragan's statement the following caveat: we are quick to point out, list, and blame Albanians for the destruction of Serbian reliigous sites throughout Kosovo. Yet at the same time, we need to also remember that non-Orthodox sites have been targeted and destroyed by Milosevic's forces too. I especially deplored the destruction and desecration of Bogoroditsa Ljeviska in Prizren, but I would have been equally appalled if the Sinan Ali Pasha mosque in Prizren were destroyed.
In our efforts to remind some people of the obvious act of violence taking place right under their nose, let's not ignore the destruction of sites that was committed in the name of our religion too. If we're going to take the moral high ground (and we have every right to since 1999)) let's make sure we're not pushed off that moral highground due to oversight or double-standards.
Jovan you are very naive. Do you really expect that if some other country, say the US, told the Albanian leaders to accept broad autonomy the Albanian people would accept it? Well clearly you have no idea about the history of Kosovo/a. Need I remind you that even when there was no country in the world that backed the Kosovo/a Albanians for their independence drive, even when under such conditions where the Albanians had no allies and they were continuously repressed they never stopped working for independence?
You are very naive if you fail to see this. This has nothing to do with convincing the politicians to give up independence, since the will for independence does not come from the politicians down to the people but it goes from the people to the politicians.
Albanians have already been in the situation where nobody in the world would listen to them, where they were crushed militarily but that never crushed their desire for independence. Nothing will.
Kosovo/a under Serbia will not only be a nightmare for Albanians but also for the Serbs not only living in Kosovo/a but in Serbia as well. There will never be sincere relations between us, and both our nations will do everything to subdue the other if we're left under the same roof. History has proven it through thousands of years.
Also to those Serbs that support partition, if partition happens and the Serb part joins Serbia what would they think about the Albanian part joining Albania?
Milosevic - i think most people would agree, was a piece of dirt. he got what he deserved.
(PB, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:26)
I know its fashionable to lay blame on a dead leader who was caught in the middle of the former Yugoslavia falling apart. Read the ICTY Milosevic transcripts in his own words and then make your judgement on what kind of "dirt" he really is.
Branco Covic,
Imagine those chutches would still be there intact..How much would they be visited by Serbs, who are not religious at all?
Would they be visited by those Serbs, who committed all those horrible crimes to get absolution for their crimes?
This is nothing but a chess game in which the West is trying to improve its position by maneuvering things around but they can't break through really. For the simple reason that the rule of law is not on their side. They know it and that's why we are seeing their useless posturing, economic duress and bullying being replaced with new and new and new strategies that ultimately are going to fail as well. Nobody in Serbia has any sympathy or illusions about the West. On the contrary. This is not going to change for a very long time. For the obvious reasons. Mr Jeremic is a smart man and the government is playing its strenghts extremly well I would say. The West has been now reduced to pure bluffing.
Fine! Go and join Albania. I would like to see nations solidified. Isn't it ridiculous, to have 2 nations of Albanians, why? Would Albanians like to see 2 or 3 Serbian nations? It's just ridiculous.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution for Kosovo between Serbia and it's Albanian population. I am not pro Serb or Albanian but, at the present Kosovo leagally belongs to Serbia (fact). I propose a solution where neither side has control of the province. It should just be made a UN Nation, contolled, overseen, mandated, etc., by the UN. Isn't that perfect? All sides win and all sides lose. They both deserve it. I believe the EU/UN is working towards something like this. The US has stepped away from the Balkan scenerio. that is obvious.
Could an Albanian blogger here please congratulate us Serbs for our great perfomance in the tennis world? You must admit, we are phenoms. Zivela Srbija. I would like to see Albanians celebrating their sports victories too. We are all pretty much the same. The silly differnces, exploited by our politicians, have made us enemys. I have nothing against Albanians.
Rten Kinsey, the propaganda machine is still working against Serb and against justice and common sense.
You wrote:" I worked in Kosovo for 7 years, I know how they are, who they are, great people, I learned a lot about them and I’m glad I had a chance to be in a county like that."
Would you tell me when did you arrive to Kosovo? What do you know about terror spread in Kosovo by Albanian extremists, what do you know about war propaganda of 1999?
And same propaganda is still used in Western media. At the end of most of reports you can find the following:
"Independent estimates put the civilian death toll at between 7,500 and 12,000, mostly Albanians. About a million was forced by Serb army to leave Kosovo."
I would like to refresh your memory and recall for you world news from 1999.
"A week before the bombings began, David Scheffer, U.S. State Department ambassador at large for war crime issues, announced that "we have upwards of about 100,000 [ethnic Albanian] men that we cannot account for" in Kosovo. A month later, the State Department claimed that up to 500,000 Kosovo Albanians were missing and feared dead."
How do you like it?
"Before the end of the air campaign, British Foreign Office Minister Geoff Hoon said that "in more than 100 massacres" some 10,000 ethnic Albanians had been killed (averaging 100 victims per massacre). Though substantially reduced from the 100,000 to 500,000 bandied about by U.S. officials, this was still a considerable number."
Sounds better?
"The FBI team returned home, oddly with not a word to say about their investigation. Months later, the London Financial Times reported that the FBI had found not thousands but 200 bodies at 30 sites."
Perhaps the FBI experts were poorly trained!
"As reported in the Times of London (October 31), one Spanish forensic expert, Emilio Perez Puhola, acknowledged that his team did not find even
one mass grave. He dismissed the widely publicized references about mass graves as being part of the "machinery of war propaganda."
Apparently a Serb agent !
"As of November 1999, the total number of bodies that the Western grave diggers claimed to have discovered was 2,108, "and not all of them necessarily war crimes victims," according to a story in the Wall Street Journal (December 31)."
And the worst kind of KLA propaganda amplified by western media, main Trepca.
"As reported by U.S. and NATO officials, the Serbs threw 1,000 or more bodies down the shafts or disposed of them in the mine's vats of hydrochloric acid. In October 1999, the ICTY released the findings of Western forensic teams investigating Trepca. Not a single body was found in the mine shafts, nor was there any evidence that the vats had ever been used in an attempt to dissolve human remains."
120000 private homes have been burned to the ground along with mosques. You cry about your ancient religious sites which is understandable to some point. But as long as Serbs don't accept the responsibility for the massive destruction and pay for the damages, most of the Albanians will feel no pitiness for the religious sites, which aided and blessed some of the worst Serbian war criminals. The damage estimate is on my desk, which we will soon send it to Serbia, and if Serbia is forced Serbia to pay, your country will be bancrupt for a decade.
The problem is that if Kosovo is given independents that would destabilize the whole region.
If Kosovo is given independence then Republika Srpska will join Serbia. That is why the west has not given kosovo independence.
The best outcome would be to partition Kosovo and unite Republika Srpska with Serbia.
Then every body wins!!!
Zivela Srbija
To: brako qoviq,
you mentioned sties built during milosheviq era, such as Gjakova/Dakovica nad you listed sites vandalized during march riots. this is not what i chellenged you guys , you know very well about my challenge about the truth and not fiction. The only tru coment came from ; (MIKE, Thursday, 5 July, 16:58), Mike listed six ancient orthodox churches and I fully agree with him and by the way Mike I knew about these as well but I was waiting to hear from an honest to god individual to tell the truth, and not like others writing all the time as follows: " Over 100 shurches destroyed". Again I thank you Mike for your honesty and I wish everyone on this site be as honest as you are.By the way out of six churches mentioned by Mike : 2 are badly damaged, 2 are ttaly destroyed and 2 are vandalized.
Konstantin Gregovic - It's irrelevant what the ICTY transcripts say. He claimed whilst he was in jail to be a pauper when the reality couldn't have been further from the truth with millions found in bank accounts after his death and no doubt countless millions not yet found.
Besides the fact that he made a fortune with his cronies, he sold out his own people in croatia. no doubt the wily Tudjman convinced him to pull back with the agreement to carve up bosnia instead between them. what a fool.
So i stand by my original statement. he got what he deserved. he was a criminal.
starideda my dear you can not expect the albanians to praise the likes of ana ivanovic, novak djokovic and jelena jankovic who all are in the limelight of the tennis world especially in the wimbledon nowadays. pretty ana and young djokovic made serbians proud. GREAT GAMES. watch them and cool a bit guys.
Yes, I am Albanian and I think Serbia has great tennis players. It has also great basketball payers and I always liked its soccer team.
Of course, I always rooted for the other team, but hey, "give to the devil his due", right. Hahaha.
Good game, guys. I sincerely wish to Serbia a great future in sports.
With your logic of chopping up sovereign countries, US would not exist today. They would never dare to chop up the British Kingdom in 1776.
(Marco, Thursday, 5 July, 2007, 15:37)
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