Valley Albanians complain of “police repression”

In Serbia nothing changed. The usual serb discrimination continues against Albanians in the South and against Hungarians in Vojvodina. In Vojvodina too if Hungarians complain by the police they get treatend. It is very sad that this type of discrimination can still happen in the XXI century in Europe. The only encouraging sign is that there are rare members of the media like B92, who report such incidents.

PB
I am a US citizen and I read about discrimination against Hungarians on a Hungarian site in Vojvodina on a daily basis. I know what is going on there. The time is gone when you could deny everything. It is very ridiculous when you try to resort to made up all stories of 100 0r 200 years ago. But if you bring up that time why is it that Vojvodina, what you received as a present is still the most developed and cultured part of Serbia? As I heard from friends in the late fifties in the old Serbia proper in the villages people were still wearing mocassins (not styllish ones that one can buy in a store but those primitive ones that pesants also wore in other countries but 150 years ago).

Princip,
It is a poor shot of you to bring up the case of that Hungarian journalist. I am an American and the subject is good old discrimination in Serbia. So please stay by the subject. I hope next time you will not divert to a story of an African safary.

Return to your native land if you feel that you're being discrimated.

Joe, isn´t it ridiculous writing such a statement about Serbs, while k-albanians are burning down churches and beating up 70-year old women?

keep you feet on the ground.

Ha ha ha, is that the best example they can come up with showing they are "repressed"? what a joke. if they want real examples of repression they should look at the non muslim populations in albania and the albanian part of kosovo. that's where you'll find real repression.

people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Joe. you should be able to find plenty of literature in hungary of how expert the austro hungarians were at repressing populations. that's the reason why we kicked you out and you still can't forgive or forget about it which is why you are always here trying to bash the serbs. deal with it - you'r empire faded away a long,long,long time ago and isn't coming back.

Sladja, I see you are very bad informed about the Albanians and their lands (wherethey lived and they live).

the Albanians stirring trouble again, and to those 2 albanians joe and PB WAKE UP AND SEE THE REAL FACTS

Dear PB,
the primary reason that destroyed the Austro-Hungarian empire was the WW1 loss.
Yugoslavia faded away mainly because the people chose to fight for freedom.
Unfortunately, because of a mix of the two factors (war loss and fight for freedom), Serbia lost Kosovo.

sladja,
maybe you should return to mother russia?

i'm sure you heard that one before.

What seems obvious from the article is that the argument that provoked the gunfire was over stolen timber. What else what would it be? People have a right to protect their land from thieves.

The police indeed need to be professional as possible, considering how delicate the geography and demographics are in that area...

But Joe...Please...What makes you think that it's discrimination of your caliber??
I mean really, go to any US city, and see the demographics vs. crimes...

While you're doing your complete and exhaustive research, why not google "Rodney King beating"..., and see what the civilized world does?

Of course, i don't exuse discrimination, but before you somehow tie in Serbia's repression against minorities, have a closer look at your own home (wherever that may be), and see that it happens everywhere..

In the meanwhile, thank you for pointing out that Serbian authorities need to lift it's level of tolerance above and beyond Canada, Norway and Switzerland, irregardless of the poverty and education in Southern Serbia/Kosovo..

Thanx b92 for reporting facts the way it SHOULD be represented...Accurate, to the point, and equal...

Joe,

this is a localised matter - clearly there is some trouble over the use of the forest and one wonders who's forest it is and what the full story actually is? I would like to know the full story as it is clear that there is contention over a limited resource i.e. the forest. As such it probably would be wise for a outside mediator to help comprehend the full story and provide a solution to this issue! The fact that these Serbian citizens have written letters and the story is published on B92 suggests that it is being dealt with in an open fashion and someone external to the area will hopefully be looking into the grievance!

Joe,

one wonders if it is the same as usual in that "open" [sic] society of Hungary where journalists are attacked and left for dead for revealing the truth?

"On Saturday 23 June, Iren Karman, a 40-year-old investigative journalist was discovered on the shore of the river Danube.

She had been tied up and half beaten to death.

The previous evening, she had been kidnapped by two men as she walked home from a video rental shop in a Budapest suburb.

Only emergency surgery to stop internal bleeding saved her life. "
read the rest of the BBC report Hungary's unresolved 'Oilgate'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6254282.stm

Oh please Joe, you wear your Hungarian identity like a badge, with bells, sires, and flashing lights. Enough with the "I'm an American" story. If you truly are one, what business do you have reading Hungarian blogs of discrimination in Vojvodina everyday and then then taking on the mantle of Hungarian crusader on a Serbian website everytime a Serb sneezes wrong at a Hungarian? I almost snorted out my coffee when you replied to Princip's clear counterargument with that whole "don't mix apples and oranges" allegory.

It's very clear that Serbs and Albanians can't live together in spite of some Albanian and Serb comments "Let's get along".
I would hate to agree with Matthew's rhetoric of Kosova being the heartland of Serbia, but his separation proposal makes more and more sense as the time goes on. Simply Preseva, Bujanoc, some villages of Medvedja for north Kosova. And this headache is gone forever!
I think Albanians and Serbs should think of this proposal since there is nothing better. Everything else leads to nothing more than war, bloodshed, and suffering!

Dear, dear, Joe,

is that really the best you can do?

It is entertaining to see that you have little to reply in regards the underworld of the Hungariarian society. Moreover, that despite it being a member of the EU it still seeps through & reflects the corruption that Eastern Europe as a whole - including former Yugoslavia has suffered! It's sad that your life evolves around tarring the Serbian nation and all it's citizens when your efforts would probably be better spent focusing on cleaning up Hungary's act or as Pjetro pointed out the US if that is indeed your home!

Well, it's not necessary to read the articles. The comments are enough to see the real situation. Nothing has changed in the serbian mind. Albanians should leave, Albanians are animals...

b92 is actually the most moderate serbian source for news. But its readers are not better than whose who read nationalistic newspapers.

This is like a vicious circle and this small area in the Balkans seems to be cursed.

So what should happen finally to make you think?

Sick nationalism, sick, sick and disguisting. This is not the 21st century. This is not european, this is just pathetic.

Albanians from Kosovo are illegally chopping wood in Serbia.

Albanians have devasted forests in their own country to the point that the forest line between Albania and other countries is very noticeably better outside of Albania.

Albanians are abusive to trees.

Sladja,
For your record.

Albanians do live in their native land!

@Destan Belaxhia
So you want to trade Presevo which is Serb land for North Kosovo which is Serb land? I agree we need to seperate but you can not steal Serb land and then say it was yours all along.As for this story B92 give me a break this is not news.B92 is a western backed media group so I am not surprised about the story but as Serbs don't add to the trouble.This is not police repression.

Mike,
Mentally you have a very serbian conception of how an American should behave and what should be his interests. Sure you would prefere to see Americans interested only in baseball and completely ignore what is going on in the world or places like Kosovo. You see Mike it is too late for this ideal American scenario of yours. My fellow colleages are all university graduates. Most of them were born abroad. They are following the events of their old country or of the "old neigborhood" while at the same time they are proud and good US citizens. There is no contradiction between these two things. I find it sad that you can not understand it.
Also you should know that the Americans are much more idealist than the Europeans and care much more about the freedom and democratie in the world. I am one of those idealists. Fluent in 4 languages including French and German I do not hesitate to intervene in many different forums if I feel morally obligated.

Joe,

Being a Yank in Serbia and being discrimnated or abused, what else did you expect, your leader killed people in Serbia. Putting the emotion aside, remember the black segregation only 40 years ago, and also KKK is still around in your country. Have a look in your own back yard before you start playing GOD in anothers.

PB
Im an non-muslim albanian.
I was under discrimination and i didn't knew that,thanks for telling me!If you want to speak about discrimination please dont mention Albania because we are without any doubt the most tolerant Balkan state,toward different religions and ethnic minorities as well.

To Dinah~

When you get kicked out of your home, have your churches and graves desecrated, have your grandmother beat up, then you talk about how sick & disgusting people really are. You are obviously living in a glass bubble.

The reality of it all is that these atrocities are STILL occurring and until people such as yourself realize this, there will be articles such as this.

TO - b trepca

Albanians do live in their native land!
(b trepca, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 23:59)

You do not live in your native land. When you become accountable for taxes & paying your bills that the Serbian government has been your parent for so long over, then you can say something like that. Since you've proven this is just a fantasy, YOU DO NOT live in your native land!

Joe, I think you are confusing idealism with nationalism, which is a completely different concept. I also think you still believe I'm some crazy Serb or something. Born, raised, and currently live in the USA with not to drop of Serb blood in me.

You want to talk about idealism and enjoying the freedoms on America while having an interest in the "home country"? That's fine, but when you write, you cherry pick issues and highlight points that seem appropriate for your own political views while changing ideals to suit the case study. You like to call it ideology, but why bring up an issue of Hungarians in an article that focuses on Albanians? And when confronted by a counterargument by Princip (who needs no intervention on my behalf), you suddenly change your tune and call it a cheap shot? You want to talk about idealism and you feel the need to switch topics to Hungarians? Fine. Address the counterpoint of media mobility in Hungary. Address the issues of community growth - or the potentials for such growth - in Vojvodina. Discuss the prospects for further democratic transition in Serbia - that's pretty idealistic, rather that always making it a victim-based sob story - which is more nationalistic. If you truly are what you say you are, and I have no reason to doubt that, let it come forth clearer in your rhetoric. I'm afraid the whole aggressive-defensive tone of your comments don't attest to your university background.

sladja,
maybe you should return to mother russia?

(tobias, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 17:52)

Serbs do not hail from Russia, so no, I haven't heard that before and I've no clue what you are trying to get at. Serbs are simply desendants of slavic tribes from Northern Eastern Europe.

It appears as though some people on this string believe that all of Serbia's land, for that matter most of Southeastern Europe, should belong to the Albanians. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no scientific proof that Albanians are descendants of Illyrians. Albanians hold this as some sort of right becuase they've been incapable of acheving little else in modern day Europe. You attempted to prove a tie to the Illyrians with Kosovo in the 1970s-1980s with cash being flown in from your motherland. You found nothing. When I read comments like about Albanian entitlement to so much land I can appreciate the Greeks reservations with Albanian immigration.

Return to your native land if you feel that you're being discrimated.

Joe,

this is a localised matter - clearly there is some trouble over the use of the forest and one wonders who's forest it is and what the full story actually is? I would like to know the full story as it is clear that there is contention over a limited resource i.e. the forest. As such it probably would be wise for a outside mediator to help comprehend the full story and provide a solution to this issue! The fact that these Serbian citizens have written letters and the story is published on B92 suggests that it is being dealt with in an open fashion and someone external to the area will hopefully be looking into the grievance!

Joe,

one wonders if it is the same as usual in that "open" [sic] society of Hungary where journalists are attacked and left for dead for revealing the truth?

"On Saturday 23 June, Iren Karman, a 40-year-old investigative journalist was discovered on the shore of the river Danube.

She had been tied up and half beaten to death.

The previous evening, she had been kidnapped by two men as she walked home from a video rental shop in a Budapest suburb.

Only emergency surgery to stop internal bleeding saved her life. "
read the rest of the BBC report Hungary's unresolved 'Oilgate'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6254282.stm

In Serbia nothing changed. The usual serb discrimination continues against Albanians in the South and against Hungarians in Vojvodina. In Vojvodina too if Hungarians complain by the police they get treatend. It is very sad that this type of discrimination can still happen in the XXI century in Europe. The only encouraging sign is that there are rare members of the media like B92, who report such incidents.

Joe, isn´t it ridiculous writing such a statement about Serbs, while k-albanians are burning down churches and beating up 70-year old women?

keep you feet on the ground.

Ha ha ha, is that the best example they can come up with showing they are "repressed"? what a joke. if they want real examples of repression they should look at the non muslim populations in albania and the albanian part of kosovo. that's where you'll find real repression.

people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Joe. you should be able to find plenty of literature in hungary of how expert the austro hungarians were at repressing populations. that's the reason why we kicked you out and you still can't forgive or forget about it which is why you are always here trying to bash the serbs. deal with it - you'r empire faded away a long,long,long time ago and isn't coming back.

Sladja, I see you are very bad informed about the Albanians and their lands (wherethey lived and they live).

the Albanians stirring trouble again, and to those 2 albanians joe and PB WAKE UP AND SEE THE REAL FACTS

Dear PB,
the primary reason that destroyed the Austro-Hungarian empire was the WW1 loss.
Yugoslavia faded away mainly because the people chose to fight for freedom.
Unfortunately, because of a mix of the two factors (war loss and fight for freedom), Serbia lost Kosovo.

sladja,
maybe you should return to mother russia?

i'm sure you heard that one before.

What seems obvious from the article is that the argument that provoked the gunfire was over stolen timber. What else what would it be? People have a right to protect their land from thieves.

The police indeed need to be professional as possible, considering how delicate the geography and demographics are in that area...

But Joe...Please...What makes you think that it's discrimination of your caliber??
I mean really, go to any US city, and see the demographics vs. crimes...

While you're doing your complete and exhaustive research, why not google "Rodney King beating"..., and see what the civilized world does?

Of course, i don't exuse discrimination, but before you somehow tie in Serbia's repression against minorities, have a closer look at your own home (wherever that may be), and see that it happens everywhere..

In the meanwhile, thank you for pointing out that Serbian authorities need to lift it's level of tolerance above and beyond Canada, Norway and Switzerland, irregardless of the poverty and education in Southern Serbia/Kosovo..

Thanx b92 for reporting facts the way it SHOULD be represented...Accurate, to the point, and equal...

PB
I am a US citizen and I read about discrimination against Hungarians on a Hungarian site in Vojvodina on a daily basis. I know what is going on there. The time is gone when you could deny everything. It is very ridiculous when you try to resort to made up all stories of 100 0r 200 years ago. But if you bring up that time why is it that Vojvodina, what you received as a present is still the most developed and cultured part of Serbia? As I heard from friends in the late fifties in the old Serbia proper in the villages people were still wearing mocassins (not styllish ones that one can buy in a store but those primitive ones that pesants also wore in other countries but 150 years ago).

Princip,
It is a poor shot of you to bring up the case of that Hungarian journalist. I am an American and the subject is good old discrimination in Serbia. So please stay by the subject. I hope next time you will not divert to a story of an African safary.

Oh please Joe, you wear your Hungarian identity like a badge, with bells, sires, and flashing lights. Enough with the "I'm an American" story. If you truly are one, what business do you have reading Hungarian blogs of discrimination in Vojvodina everyday and then then taking on the mantle of Hungarian crusader on a Serbian website everytime a Serb sneezes wrong at a Hungarian? I almost snorted out my coffee when you replied to Princip's clear counterargument with that whole "don't mix apples and oranges" allegory.

It's very clear that Serbs and Albanians can't live together in spite of some Albanian and Serb comments "Let's get along".
I would hate to agree with Matthew's rhetoric of Kosova being the heartland of Serbia, but his separation proposal makes more and more sense as the time goes on. Simply Preseva, Bujanoc, some villages of Medvedja for north Kosova. And this headache is gone forever!
I think Albanians and Serbs should think of this proposal since there is nothing better. Everything else leads to nothing more than war, bloodshed, and suffering!

Dear, dear, Joe,

is that really the best you can do?

It is entertaining to see that you have little to reply in regards the underworld of the Hungariarian society. Moreover, that despite it being a member of the EU it still seeps through & reflects the corruption that Eastern Europe as a whole - including former Yugoslavia has suffered! It's sad that your life evolves around tarring the Serbian nation and all it's citizens when your efforts would probably be better spent focusing on cleaning up Hungary's act or as Pjetro pointed out the US if that is indeed your home!

Well, it's not necessary to read the articles. The comments are enough to see the real situation. Nothing has changed in the serbian mind. Albanians should leave, Albanians are animals...

b92 is actually the most moderate serbian source for news. But its readers are not better than whose who read nationalistic newspapers.

This is like a vicious circle and this small area in the Balkans seems to be cursed.

So what should happen finally to make you think?

Sick nationalism, sick, sick and disguisting. This is not the 21st century. This is not european, this is just pathetic.

Albanians from Kosovo are illegally chopping wood in Serbia.

Albanians have devasted forests in their own country to the point that the forest line between Albania and other countries is very noticeably better outside of Albania.

Albanians are abusive to trees.

Sladja,
For your record.

Albanians do live in their native land!

@Destan Belaxhia
So you want to trade Presevo which is Serb land for North Kosovo which is Serb land? I agree we need to seperate but you can not steal Serb land and then say it was yours all along.As for this story B92 give me a break this is not news.B92 is a western backed media group so I am not surprised about the story but as Serbs don't add to the trouble.This is not police repression.

Mike,
Mentally you have a very serbian conception of how an American should behave and what should be his interests. Sure you would prefere to see Americans interested only in baseball and completely ignore what is going on in the world or places like Kosovo. You see Mike it is too late for this ideal American scenario of yours. My fellow colleages are all university graduates. Most of them were born abroad. They are following the events of their old country or of the "old neigborhood" while at the same time they are proud and good US citizens. There is no contradiction between these two things. I find it sad that you can not understand it.
Also you should know that the Americans are much more idealist than the Europeans and care much more about the freedom and democratie in the world. I am one of those idealists. Fluent in 4 languages including French and German I do not hesitate to intervene in many different forums if I feel morally obligated.

Joe,

Being a Yank in Serbia and being discrimnated or abused, what else did you expect, your leader killed people in Serbia. Putting the emotion aside, remember the black segregation only 40 years ago, and also KKK is still around in your country. Have a look in your own back yard before you start playing GOD in anothers.

PB
Im an non-muslim albanian.
I was under discrimination and i didn't knew that,thanks for telling me!If you want to speak about discrimination please dont mention Albania because we are without any doubt the most tolerant Balkan state,toward different religions and ethnic minorities as well.

To Dinah~

When you get kicked out of your home, have your churches and graves desecrated, have your grandmother beat up, then you talk about how sick & disgusting people really are. You are obviously living in a glass bubble.

The reality of it all is that these atrocities are STILL occurring and until people such as yourself realize this, there will be articles such as this.

TO - b trepca

Albanians do live in their native land!
(b trepca, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 23:59)

You do not live in your native land. When you become accountable for taxes & paying your bills that the Serbian government has been your parent for so long over, then you can say something like that. Since you've proven this is just a fantasy, YOU DO NOT live in your native land!

Joe, I think you are confusing idealism with nationalism, which is a completely different concept. I also think you still believe I'm some crazy Serb or something. Born, raised, and currently live in the USA with not to drop of Serb blood in me.

You want to talk about idealism and enjoying the freedoms on America while having an interest in the "home country"? That's fine, but when you write, you cherry pick issues and highlight points that seem appropriate for your own political views while changing ideals to suit the case study. You like to call it ideology, but why bring up an issue of Hungarians in an article that focuses on Albanians? And when confronted by a counterargument by Princip (who needs no intervention on my behalf), you suddenly change your tune and call it a cheap shot? You want to talk about idealism and you feel the need to switch topics to Hungarians? Fine. Address the counterpoint of media mobility in Hungary. Address the issues of community growth - or the potentials for such growth - in Vojvodina. Discuss the prospects for further democratic transition in Serbia - that's pretty idealistic, rather that always making it a victim-based sob story - which is more nationalistic. If you truly are what you say you are, and I have no reason to doubt that, let it come forth clearer in your rhetoric. I'm afraid the whole aggressive-defensive tone of your comments don't attest to your university background.

sladja,
maybe you should return to mother russia?

(tobias, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 17:52)

Serbs do not hail from Russia, so no, I haven't heard that before and I've no clue what you are trying to get at. Serbs are simply desendants of slavic tribes from Northern Eastern Europe.

It appears as though some people on this string believe that all of Serbia's land, for that matter most of Southeastern Europe, should belong to the Albanians. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no scientific proof that Albanians are descendants of Illyrians. Albanians hold this as some sort of right becuase they've been incapable of acheving little else in modern day Europe. You attempted to prove a tie to the Illyrians with Kosovo in the 1970s-1980s with cash being flown in from your motherland. You found nothing. When I read comments like about Albanian entitlement to so much land I can appreciate the Greeks reservations with Albanian immigration.