Kosovo: Summer break or fresh talks?

It certainly look like things will be placed on the "Too diffiuclt to sort out" pile and they will take another look in September. Next Monday (9th July)there is a scheduled UNMIK update at the UN SC
http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/pow.pdf
Thus, it is more then likely that they will put this all on freeze for now at that meeting. If Rucker is concerned I guess he can request more troops!

Clearly many are thinking ahead to September when the French take on the UN SC Presidency. Though it is clear that even then the EU are preparing for no independence;

"He also said that if there is no agreement between the U.S., EU and Russia, the United Nations Security Council could pass a resolution increasing the presence of the EU in Kosovo. "

Thus, I think Kate's idea of "supervised autonomy" is clearly taking shape.

It certainly sounds like all that might be deceided for the time being in September will be to amended UN control to EU administration and freeze events for an indefinite time - pretty much a diplomatic way out for the UN who don't whan the responsibility anymore and US who can shift it onto the EU!!

What??! No independence yet? More talks? More delays? But I thought it was a open and shut case? I thought it was going to happen, or already did by the sound of some Albanians that visit this site.

I remember reading something Ceku said a few weeks back about the light at the end of the tunnel being harder to see. That's for sure. But some of the Albanians that visit this site are in such denial that they think the USA would ignore the Russians for them, start another Cold War for them, disregard other EU states that are unsure about this whole independence thing, and will take more energy and effort on Kosovo while they are busy in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran. Sure, yeah, maybe 10 years ago this would be a reality, but not in the post 9-11 world, especially since the USA has often said that EVERYTHING changed after 9-11. I think the Albanians need to look into that a little more closely. EVERYTHING changed. Including what matters to them.

So delay again... no independence yet, and probably not in the future... and yet, I expect more Albanians to visit and be in severe denial.

I hope that during this period there will be talks between Serbian and Albanian leaders. But I suspect that the Albanians will refuse to have any further talks (unless it would lead to certain independence, which would make talks pointless anyway).

The Serbs (and others who just wish to live peacefully) living in Kosovo must be terrified, and as the current level of Nato troops is only 1:125 people, security MUST be boosted.

Either through the EU or by working with Serbia and allowing their troops to protect their own people and heritage alongside Nato and/or the EU. I'm certain that Res. 1244 provided for this.

The current danger is all down to Bush's false declaration to deliver something that he was not in a position to deliver. He most likely won't even be in office next year.

In the current situation Resolution 1244 MUST be implemented, the displaced people safely returned with proper security and resettlement.

I can't believe that someone on this site asked where these people would go because Albanian famillies were now living in their homes!? If these are their rightful home they should be allowed back. Famillies who have taken over homes will also need to be rehoused as part of the plan.

Time to get things right for a change. Independence is clearly off the menu, full autonomy should be implemented (without the Kosovo government if they refuse to take part in any talks), UNSCR 1244 fulfilled, and a huge international presence to ensure help and security to these people.

If violence flares up then it should be quelled immediately, and the trouble makers arrested and deported if they do not belong there (before anyone leaps on this - I am talking about extremists who are not Kosovans; not 'ethnic cleansing' which I will predictably be accused of supporting!).

Borders should be sealed and all parties and NGOs should start working together. The province of Kosovo is still part of Serbia, therefore Serbia can't be left out of the equation. Neither can the Albanian leaders, but they have to be prepared to talk to, and work with, others.

Look like things are just getting messed up day after day. I don't understand what are some people excpecting from new negotiations between serbs and albanians, everyone knows that nothing is going to happen from these "talks", both parties have very differend views about the future of Kosovo and there is no way that any compromise is going to happen. If US president says that Kosovo has to be independent then believe me that Kosovo parliament is going to declare independence, if no one recognize it then citizens of Kosovo are going to become impatient and this might set things in very bad situation for everyone.
If this person is vorried about Serbs in Kosovo if something happens, then I have something I like to say to him: Why aren't Serbs in Kosovo accepting their future in new country of Kosovo?, that way they(serbs) don't have to worry about anything.
If Europe thinks that Russia is going to have "main word" about Kosovo, they(EU) are just being little puppies to let Russia get involved in Europe.

Eagle - you fly the Albanian flag (hence Eagle), give veiled threats and refuse to talk constructively. I'd be worried too. Why should the Serbian and other residents accept independence if they don't want it??

THAT'S NOT DEMOCRACY!!

Its entertaining to see some serb camp posters here thinking that all is won now, and there is not going to be any independence.

As if albanians are just going to so' Oh well, a least we tried, i guess we just going to accept auotnomy!!'.

Some of you are forgeting that albanians will have the final say in this, we always have our unilateral decleration of independence. Even if nobody else recognizes it, USA, UK, Switzerlans, Albania, Macedonia etc. will. That is good enough for us. We will create our own symbols, constitution, national anthem, police, army etc etc. And there is nothing Serbia can do about it. They can't enforce their consitution or laws on Kosovars, since they have no sovreginty over Kosovo. And if any of you think that Kosovo is Serbia after that, try entering Kosovo without a passport and a visa.

While Unilateral independence in not as good of a solution as with UN SC resolution, its still satisfatory to albanians, and there is nothing Serbia can do about it.

So forget you autonomy, you can offer that to albanians in Presevo Valley, if you like.

Reading the comments I thought for a moment that the Security Council had spoken, but it was just Jeremic and he was speculating at that. Since when has the Serbs started to speak in the name of the EU and the US? I am curious to know how you guys have reached the conclusion you did, i.e. supervised autonomy is taking shape (as proposed by no less a person that Kate) and independence is off the table!!! To me it all smacks of desperation. And Kate you show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the situation in Kosovo. Who do you want to deport? And where would you deport them to I wonder? And what makes you think the borders can be sealed and which borders would those be? After all the Yugoslav army failed to do that and it had far more troops in Kosovo than NATO has? Mark my words guys Kosovo it's gonna be independent! This is all a desperate effort on the part of Russia and Serbia to delay things in the hope of provoking disturbances in Kosovo in order to discredit the Albanians. A very cynical policy one might say.
Oh yeah and as far as the talks are concerned: the Albanians and Serbs have had talks twice already, once in Rambouille and then the talks in Vienna. Remember the outcome? The first ended in you guys being bombed into submission, the second ended in the Ahtisaari package. What makes you so sure it will be different this time?

"...Why should the Serbian and other residents accept independence if they don't want it??

THAT'S NOT DEMOCRACY!!
(kate, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 12:18) "

Why should albanians exept more talks when everything is said. Albanians knows what Serbia wants , but the majority of Kosovo residents do not want that...
Is this a DEMOCRACY?

Serbs are putting up a brave face, but they are doing nothing. Serbs in Kosova are getting smaller and smaller, Russia is looking ever more ridiculous with no argument and no proposals, and Serbia with its undemocratic government (Kostunica and Tadic are in power only because the WEST wants them there, not because they won any votes) has leaders who only look after their offices. And yet, this forum is bursting with Serb optimism.

Nikshala and Teni - instead of waffling on about de-facto independence, you should realise that it is in your interests to have legitimate independence, i.e. a negotiated settlement, otherwise you'll have to live off the handouts from the US and as milton friedman said, "there's no such thing as a free lunch". they'll bleed you dry and you'll live in relative poverty.

P.S Teni, you still haven't answered my previous question which was very specific?

Nikshala,

corrrect us all if you could and prey tell when the UN resolution removing 1244 was implemented??? If that ever happens then you might be able to suggest otherwise but till then Serbia remains integral and that inculdes its province of Kosovo & Metohija & all the Serbia citizens within it!!

What next will we hear that Ceku will declare unilaterally again ??? We have heard the smae said by Kusomi and where did he go in June 2006? But what will that matter when it is evident that UN 1244 remains & states otherwise - the UNMIK will close PISG immediatly and then what? Moreover, when it is clear that the EU will not respond well to such an action and no-one will recognise this while 1244 stands without creating dire consequences as a result of their ILLEGAL actions. There will be no illegal declaration and no violence these are all bluffs to push things along but the International community are getting bored of them too!!!

Let the talks begin or keep waiting till September so that again the timetable can be shifted into the next year and then the next etc etc.....

Albano - you and the other albanians talk about the majority of Kosovo and their desires for independence i.e. a democratic vote.

why should a democratic Albanian vote be given ANY legitimacy when Serbia, which Kosovo is still legally a part, voted to keep Kosovo as it's territory?

If you declare independence unilaterally, then the Serbs in northern Kosovo will declare independence unilaterally from Kosovo with the same legitimacy. As there is already a de-facto split on the ground there is nothing you can do about it asi'm sure the US and EU would not back a new war between the albanians and serbs in Kosovo, so we have a stalemate and a partition.

Albano - There is a big difference: Kosovans wishing NOT to be independent (ie. mainly Serbs) already hold that status within their own country. They wish to preserve what they have.

Kosovans wishing for independence are seeking to change the existing status, illegally if necessary. That may be 'democratic' in the eyes of pro-separatists, but the population is part of Serbia, and therefore a minority in national terms.

Violence, threats and annexing territory is not democratic. Wanting to live within your existing country is fair to any reasonable person.

teni - Thanks for delivering the predictable attacks on my knowledge and ideas, but as I said previously, you cannot distort my words to make me sound like I am in favour of kicking anyone out of Kosovo who belongs there.

All I was speaking about were the trouble makers who stir up any violence and have actually come in from other countries such as Albania, the US or elsewhere. As in any other country, criminals and people there illegally who stoke up violence should be deported back to their own country.

While the process of independence taking longer than people thought most Serbs on this site are showing their true mentality about Albanians and getting very arrogant. Their are now sure that the Russian "nyet" will save Kosovo for them ON PAPER. I am sure however that things will happen that will destroy their illusion for ever.

Kate

Would you say the same thing if Serbs from Serbia or Bosnia or whereever came to Kosovo and started trouble (e.g. Car Lazar thugs)? Would you ask for them to be deported?

Supervised independence is no independence. We will wait until recognition and then simply boycott all international institutions in Kosova. Their only choice will be to do what we want them to do or leave. UN, EU are a peace of cake to put them in their place. We are already doing it to them, just wait until we get recognition and then you'll who's the boss.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/07/04/afx3883887.html

It's very interesting to hear all this chatter about serbs this and kosovars that the facts remain as such serbia since 1991 have started or participated in a agressive way against croats slovenians bosnians macedonias and all the minorities that hte former yugoslavia was constituted.The serbian army didn't behave terribly in the last war it was the "civilian" para-military forces which was made up of not only serbs but multi-ethinic slavs who had there way on an unarmed people .The Kla which was branded a terrorist org was mostly tring to defend kosovar civilians some albeit for personaland egotistical gain but to protect their rights

Nikshala - no, because they would still be in the same country. But of course if they break the law they should be arrested.

wow wow all these comments, be real, what are the chances of Kosovo being integrated in the "NEW" Serbia??!! nil=zero=nula people...we were there and look what happened the UN has to deal with them mess Milosevic made...Are they ready to give Kosovo back in order to deal with it again in some years time?! I don't think so. In Kosovo we have a saying what is yours is yours what is mine is mine...but here people are a bit confused about what belongs to whom!!!

Kate,

The number of Albanians from Albania in Kosova is very small and most are highly educated individuals who have come seeking work with UNMIK or the other international institutions that were established in Kosova after the war.

Your deliberate attempt to portray the Albanians from Albania as troublemakers has no basis in facts and is pure speculation, which only serves to undermine the seriousness of comments by someone who purports to uphold international law and democracy.

You also state that "violence is not democratic and neither is anxeation of territory"

Is the deportation of almost a million people, the destruction of hudnrends of thousands of houses and the mureder of almost 12,000 people democratic?

How exactly do you tell people who have lost so much to simply accept the risk of future conflict and oppression for the sake of upholding "international law"

International law itself is a very general term that includes a very large body of international legislation and norms, and the human rights legislation are an integral part of international law.

PB sorry about not answering your question, but I misunderstood the thrust of it yesterday.But first a comment about being bled dry: no one can bleed Kosovo dry to the same extent as Serbia did - I'm talking literally.
As for your question: There are Albanians in the north of Kosovo too and as far as I know the Serb government has said nothing about partition. But if they did why shouldn't Preshevo seccede from Serbia as well? Allow for that and you might have a deal. It's that simple.
And in any case (correct me if I am wrong) the monuments and churches and monasteries Serbia wants are not located in the northern part anyway. What makes your claim to the northern part so special then?

KLA protecting rights!!!OMG what are you saying?
http://www.kosovo.net/kladecapit.pdf

Kate I did not mean to offend you, but your comments simply lent themeslves to that sort of comment on my part. Troublemakers from Albania are not the problem in Kosovo, that is your knowledge problem. There are almost 2 million Albanians living there, hence there are enough "troublemakers" without importing any from Albania. That's it.

Comments of the type "Bush said independence and that is going to happen" or "Putin said Njet and there will be no independence ever", and pretty much childish.
Kosovo is under UN rule still, but it has its own government who controls and runs all internal affairs. Kosovo resources are being used by Kosovars, the people of Kosovo. Kosovo speaks Albanian, Kosovo behaves Albanian, Kosovo is all black and red. These are facts. Now if someone is happy with Kosovo being part of Serbia in some "international law" papers, than OK! Kosovo is part of Serbia! So what! It still speaks Albanian, its resources are being used by Albanians, it has its police that controls the borders, streets of Prishtina are filled with monuments of Albanian national hero's. And this is still part of Serbia? Ok! It is also part of Planet Earth, Solar System, Universe. In all geography books. But it still speaks Albanian!

Violence is always been a method of revolutionaries of every color. The Albanians posters here speak reams of Serbian violence but forget their own and use and threaten (nikshala) violence others with violence.. They speak of negotiations, democracy and international law for themselves but deny it for others. They speak of independence in terms of de jure rather than de facto. They speak of majorities like King Nikola of Montenegro when he said prior to WWI “us and the Russians are an alliance of 150 million.” Nikshala speaks about Tsar Lazar thugs but ignores Presevo Valley thugs. Arben accepts the UN presence on his terms when they protect his interests but wants them to leave when they don’t do what he wants. He writes that they will boycott all institutions in Kosovo. Seems like you did this before in 1998 and established your own school curriculum and hospitals while at the same time claiming that you were denied Human rights. Kosovo Albanians have no problem going to Belgrade for medical treatment when it is a matter of life and death and they have no problem using Serbian diplomas and legal documents when they emigrate. Albano does not want to negotiate since he claims that everything has been said and now he ignores prior agreements that his representatives signed while the Serbian side was threatened with the NATO air force Teni writes of previous talks but ignores to tell us of the use of the ultimatum at Rambouillet and his representatives signature but takes us to the second set of negotiations where the Albanian side was told by US to only negotiate independence and US will do the rest like they did at Ramboulilet. Eagle writes “what are some people excepting from new negotiations between Serbs and Albanians”? How about honesty and observance of international treaties? It is not how we remember our history it is what we do with those memories to make the future better. The future will never be better if we think that we can “have our baklava and eat it too” or if we deny others what we hope for ourselves.

Arben,

seems like you'll be waiting an eternity!!! At least even the ethnic-Albaninan leadership are starting to realise that only through direct dialogue and talks to find the solution acceptable to all in Serbia will be the only way to resolve anything - win-win is still on the cards!!!

Apparently Ceku did blurt out the proverbial "we will declare unilaterally" but it looks like others have had a quick response to that already;

"The solution that the province’s Prime Minister Agim Ceku suggested Tuesday – that of unilateral declaration of independence – has been toned down today."

Quick response indeed - one wonders who really is in charge and I guess we can only expect he's been told enough of the bluffing it's looking silly now!!!!

So now we can look forward to the talks starting in September when the French take on the UN Presidency and seeing as they already talks for 6 months then it certainly looks like no solution till March - unless of course everyone gets on with real and substantial dialogue and actually comprehends the notion of "negotiations" & "compromise". It certainly seems the case that Ahtisaari in it's entirity is not that solution!

Walter,
Serbs simply lost all right to talk about internatioal treaties and observance of international human rights after their well-known actions in the nineties but especially in 1999. A country, who treats its own citizens in such a way like Serbia did in Kosovo loses all right to refer to international normes and treaties.

Teni - our claim to the northern part is simply that we dominate that part like you do the southern part. you have probably missed what i have written before so i'll repeat it. a pragmatic solution would be to split the province and if presevo had to be included then so be it, the only argument then, being where to draw the line. i'm more interested in lives than churches although many other contributors to this forum think otherwise, that is my stance.

the serbian and albanian leaderships seem to be in a staring contest and whoever blinks first loses. this is not pragmatic. the situation as it currently stands is not good for either party. Kosovo would be denied any official seats in the world and therefore left without a voice like northern cyprus and Serbia would see it's integration into europe grind to a halt - so in my opinion, both sides should sit down, break up kosovo so both can move on and prosper.

P.S literal bleeding? Like i said using a link to demonstrate, it was the KLA, sponsored and eggedon by the CIA who started hostilities and the serbian army responeded like any other country to a terrorist threat, so the albanian leadership must take most responsibility for the kosovo war.

before you respond, as no doubt you and many other albanian comentators will, think about this - throught the 10 years that Serbs were fighting wars, the KLA was classified as a terrorist organisation by the USA, but miraculously was taken off that list 6-12 months before the war started. In other words, the albanians were being used to achieve the USA's objectives against milosevic, which also happened to suit albanians desires.

Of course that we will boycott all institutions that deny us our rights. UN, EU cannot rule kosova according to their whims. We have been listening to them because the process has been going our way, more or less. If things start to turn around, we will boycott them, just as we boycotted serbia. We will never surrender and we will never be ruled by foreigners. Any deal on Kosovo needs Albanian consensus, otherwise there is no life here. Another thing, stop talking about 'hundreds of burned churches. There have never been 100 churches in Kosova. It seems as every serb here has his or her own personal church.

JOE: You see a “sliver in your neighbor’s eye but you can’t see a log in your own” When I look at your comment I must agree with Hobbes that “in seeking peace, men ought to be willing to lay down their right to all things, if and only if others are willing to do the same” It is obvious to me that you are not one of these men and that is why we need laws.

Nick: I am perfectly aware that there are many many good law abiding people in Kosovo, many of whom may not agree with a lot of what you say especially when it comes to threatening violence.
But all reports from the UN and NGOs cites a distinct element of violent hardliners in Kosovo. Are you going to deny this?

As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants, some of whom may not have moved there legally.

I was talking about IF the hardliners who should be arrested for inciting or carrying out violence, happened to be from outside of Serbia (incl. Kosovo), they should be expelled to their home country.

What is wrong with that if it is all within legal norms?

The debate can goon for years and we maynever get toa resolution.The days of socialist,facist and communist are extinct Serbia was one of the major contributors to WW1 or did the slavs forget this.Two Everybody blames the U.S for bombing and helping the kosovars during the balkan wars we forget that the americans were serbian allies not kosovars allies. If it wasn't for the arms embargo that Bill Clinton put into affect the outcome might have had different results In 1955 when my grandfather bought our neighbors land in the ferizaj region of kosovo a statement was made that almost was proven correct i said ALMOST i sell u this land now but will get it back for free in the future.the west and your wonderful leader milosevic "excuse me while i vomit" had a plan to try and quell the simmering problems of the balkans not just kosovo.Your terriffic leader dead man milo took this as a sign of veliki serbia time .The plan might of succeded if not for the gluttony and greed of tyrant as for serbia today as it is excluding kosovois paying the price when the kosovar serbian went for help to their brothers of the north they were treated as cowards not victims because they weren't tha origanal vicitms it's this false sense of nationalism that really shouldn't exist. The slavs tried to make us a illiterate people they tried to change our sire names to vich's or vic's but couldn't the majority of yugoslavias former army consisted of 24% kosovars of albanian decent So what ever socalled history that the serb's are prophetically talking about had the help of alb kosovars

Kate

"As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999" - you are right, since 1 million where expelled during the war, and they returned to their homes after the war.

Albanians want "Full Independence" Serbs only "Autonomy".
So now we have the ahtisari plan made from the UN that means "Supervised Independence" the only compromise possible,and the albanian side accepted it by making an opening toward serbs,otherwise serbs no!Now we all are waiting for them,but we will not do this forever...as Bush said:At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough Kosovo's independent"

what was that? Kosovo is gonna be independent anyway?

But the European Union -- the " the European Union the impoverished territory's chief financial backer and potentially its future home -- says Kosovo can forget recognition if it declares independence unilaterally."

source:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUKNOA33744020070703?pageNumber=2

info for all who want to learn unbiased facts:
www.kosovocompromise.com

More "talks," hence more time until Kosova has its independence. So be it. This postponement could yeild a second November 28 Independence, a day in which Albania was declared independent back in 1912 including the territories of Kosovo, Ulqin (Montenegro) and Cameria (northern Greece) prior to the notorious Peace Conference in London, 1913, that left Albania maimed. Aside from history, during the internal conflicts in Yugoslavia, Serbs fought everywhere and eager to preserve the confederate. I recall Holbrook's statement back in 1999 when he said that Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians have much in common, they are slavs, speak the same language; the only difference is religion. When it comes to Albanians [under the Serbs], there isn't much commonality between the two. Albanians aren't slavs, they speak Albanian, et al. Albanians have suffered enough in their land. No matter what the Russians and Serbs say at this point, Albanians will see their day in freedom.

Kate ,
According to you , it is very democratic when 0.5 % of population would rule in Kosovo I know thats not democratic, but it is serbian democracy that way , how ever , you are talking about a territorial integrity of Serbia, never mind lets talk about it , you might just have forgot, that Kosovo, was a constituiv unit in ex-Yu the same as it was Serbia or all the other republics, in that constitution never is said that Kosovo can not be apart from Serbia.
Serbia changed many times, but it was to late allready, the WAR was started from serbian nationalists. So, I do not think you or anyone else can make any albanian living today in Kosovo , to be ruled from 0.5 % of population in there , an more less, to be again in any kind of federation with Serbia.

PB
I think thats only thing what your politicians try to get , however , if that goes through , what aboutSerbia itself, should then the Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo vally , go away from it, then it will be true "all the serbs in one state " , but it will be really Beogradski pasaluk, so please try to be moderate , let the issue take its way, and lets be happy at the end, becouse even I ( and I assume ) lot of people in Serbia knows that there is no future in the Russian side for Serbia

kate:
Only once in the second part of the last century Kosovo had only 1 million inhabitants, and here you are correct: It was during spring 1999, when some 800.000 up to a million were driven out of Kosovo by Milosevic's armed forces. In June 1999, they came back to their homes and in the period of one or two weeks, Kosovo got its million back. It seems that you somehow wish that they have stayed in refugee camps in Macedonia and Albania. Milosevic had the same wish!
It's true, Kosovo is densely populated but people are in their homes and in their land. More than 2 million by now!

"As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999"

Give me one link, however ridiculous or biased it may be that supports this statement. I will be expecting your answer.

"But all reports from the UN and NGOs cites a distinct element of violent hardliners in Kosovo. Are you going to deny this?"

Every society has violent and radical elements and Serbia is the last country to lecture others on "violent, hardliners" after Arkan, Seselj, Legija and the current majority of the hardline SRS in the parliament.

Any radical elements in the Kosova society have no real power and it is our elected representatives who are promoting our independence and representing us in talks with the international community.

Also, none of us here are threatning violence. We are simply pointing out the obvious and trying to explain to you what happens when 2 million people (any people) are left to wait for decades and then betrayed.

Obviously the Kosova Albanians have not been betrayed by the international community as of now, but nevertheless we are attempting to give you a clear reflection of what may happen if such an unlikely thing occurs.

To kate ~

As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants, some of whom may not have moved there legally.

A great number of people residing within the borders of KosovO aren't there legally, nor do they pay taxes to the government. Would you like these people living with you or your parents or in your coffee shops?

You have obviously been living a sheltered & pro-libertarian lifestyle. Come back to the real world and realize what/who the real problem is. All those people that have "swelled" into KosovO.

Its obvious only US and the Pristina puppet regime want independence. The Serbs of alban orgin in Kosovo have shown through their lack of participation in the demonstrations (only 600) that they dont care about independence and simply wish to put this behind them and get on with their lives living in an autonomus Kosovo.

Please U serbs & Co, stop apointing links to your propaganda and very rhetoric speeches from your beloved priests about albanians...

now that BIG CHINA is presiding the security council, i think it will propose 1 COUNTRY 2 SYSTEMS like in Hong Kong which just celebrated its 10th year handover. it may become a successful model for Kosovo and Serbia. it is definitely a success. hajde hajde.

ari,

You are a sensible Albanian writer here. And I agree with you. Let Kosovo be 90% all things Albanian, no one can or should take that away from you. As far as language is concerned while at work and in school both Serbian and Albanian should be spoken that means even the Serbs who chose to live in Kosovo should be made to speak and learn both languages just as the Albanins should me made to do the same. All Serbia wants is to preserve its borders. The Albanins should rule themselves and preserve their culture, other then the language issue at work and school ONLY everything else should be 90% all things Albanien. If at least 20% of the Kosovo population was as brave as you to agree to this then all this nonsense would truly once and for all be over, by 2010 Serbia would be in the EU and Kosovo would too! It is time for an uprising against Albanian nationalist like Nick, time to tell them to conform or leave, there is no place for people like that in Kosovo's future, Albanian or Serbian. Also once things have settled down the Albanian government in Kosovo should deport all peoples who cannot prove that they are in Kosovo legally, and their are quite a lot of them. Increased numbers of illegal people in Kosovo does not benefit Kosovo, it will cost Kosovo after things are settled down.

"Also, none of us here are threatning violence. We are simply pointing out the obvious and trying to explain to you what happens when 2 million people (any people) are left to wait for decades and then betrayed."

what a contradiction!
the only thing you are right about is that you are being duped...by your friends. sorry, but it seems to become clearer and clearer as the time goes by.

I can remember one of you threatening " hell will break loose" ...maybe, that was only a remark to make us shiver, hum?

since I do not want to accuse somebody of decieving if I am not sure of it I can only assume that you don´t know what your own boys say here in the forums...

It certainly look like things will be placed on the "Too diffiuclt to sort out" pile and they will take another look in September. Next Monday (9th July)there is a scheduled UNMIK update at the UN SC
http://www.un.org/Docs/sc/pow.pdf
Thus, it is more then likely that they will put this all on freeze for now at that meeting. If Rucker is concerned I guess he can request more troops!

Clearly many are thinking ahead to September when the French take on the UN SC Presidency. Though it is clear that even then the EU are preparing for no independence;

"He also said that if there is no agreement between the U.S., EU and Russia, the United Nations Security Council could pass a resolution increasing the presence of the EU in Kosovo. "

Thus, I think Kate's idea of "supervised autonomy" is clearly taking shape.

It certainly sounds like all that might be deceided for the time being in September will be to amended UN control to EU administration and freeze events for an indefinite time - pretty much a diplomatic way out for the UN who don't whan the responsibility anymore and US who can shift it onto the EU!!

What??! No independence yet? More talks? More delays? But I thought it was a open and shut case? I thought it was going to happen, or already did by the sound of some Albanians that visit this site.

I remember reading something Ceku said a few weeks back about the light at the end of the tunnel being harder to see. That's for sure. But some of the Albanians that visit this site are in such denial that they think the USA would ignore the Russians for them, start another Cold War for them, disregard other EU states that are unsure about this whole independence thing, and will take more energy and effort on Kosovo while they are busy in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran. Sure, yeah, maybe 10 years ago this would be a reality, but not in the post 9-11 world, especially since the USA has often said that EVERYTHING changed after 9-11. I think the Albanians need to look into that a little more closely. EVERYTHING changed. Including what matters to them.

So delay again... no independence yet, and probably not in the future... and yet, I expect more Albanians to visit and be in severe denial.

I hope that during this period there will be talks between Serbian and Albanian leaders. But I suspect that the Albanians will refuse to have any further talks (unless it would lead to certain independence, which would make talks pointless anyway).

The Serbs (and others who just wish to live peacefully) living in Kosovo must be terrified, and as the current level of Nato troops is only 1:125 people, security MUST be boosted.

Either through the EU or by working with Serbia and allowing their troops to protect their own people and heritage alongside Nato and/or the EU. I'm certain that Res. 1244 provided for this.

The current danger is all down to Bush's false declaration to deliver something that he was not in a position to deliver. He most likely won't even be in office next year.

In the current situation Resolution 1244 MUST be implemented, the displaced people safely returned with proper security and resettlement.

I can't believe that someone on this site asked where these people would go because Albanian famillies were now living in their homes!? If these are their rightful home they should be allowed back. Famillies who have taken over homes will also need to be rehoused as part of the plan.

Time to get things right for a change. Independence is clearly off the menu, full autonomy should be implemented (without the Kosovo government if they refuse to take part in any talks), UNSCR 1244 fulfilled, and a huge international presence to ensure help and security to these people.

If violence flares up then it should be quelled immediately, and the trouble makers arrested and deported if they do not belong there (before anyone leaps on this - I am talking about extremists who are not Kosovans; not 'ethnic cleansing' which I will predictably be accused of supporting!).

Borders should be sealed and all parties and NGOs should start working together. The province of Kosovo is still part of Serbia, therefore Serbia can't be left out of the equation. Neither can the Albanian leaders, but they have to be prepared to talk to, and work with, others.

Look like things are just getting messed up day after day. I don't understand what are some people excpecting from new negotiations between serbs and albanians, everyone knows that nothing is going to happen from these "talks", both parties have very differend views about the future of Kosovo and there is no way that any compromise is going to happen. If US president says that Kosovo has to be independent then believe me that Kosovo parliament is going to declare independence, if no one recognize it then citizens of Kosovo are going to become impatient and this might set things in very bad situation for everyone.
If this person is vorried about Serbs in Kosovo if something happens, then I have something I like to say to him: Why aren't Serbs in Kosovo accepting their future in new country of Kosovo?, that way they(serbs) don't have to worry about anything.
If Europe thinks that Russia is going to have "main word" about Kosovo, they(EU) are just being little puppies to let Russia get involved in Europe.

Eagle - you fly the Albanian flag (hence Eagle), give veiled threats and refuse to talk constructively. I'd be worried too. Why should the Serbian and other residents accept independence if they don't want it??

THAT'S NOT DEMOCRACY!!

Its entertaining to see some serb camp posters here thinking that all is won now, and there is not going to be any independence.

As if albanians are just going to so' Oh well, a least we tried, i guess we just going to accept auotnomy!!'.

Some of you are forgeting that albanians will have the final say in this, we always have our unilateral decleration of independence. Even if nobody else recognizes it, USA, UK, Switzerlans, Albania, Macedonia etc. will. That is good enough for us. We will create our own symbols, constitution, national anthem, police, army etc etc. And there is nothing Serbia can do about it. They can't enforce their consitution or laws on Kosovars, since they have no sovreginty over Kosovo. And if any of you think that Kosovo is Serbia after that, try entering Kosovo without a passport and a visa.

While Unilateral independence in not as good of a solution as with UN SC resolution, its still satisfatory to albanians, and there is nothing Serbia can do about it.

So forget you autonomy, you can offer that to albanians in Presevo Valley, if you like.

Reading the comments I thought for a moment that the Security Council had spoken, but it was just Jeremic and he was speculating at that. Since when has the Serbs started to speak in the name of the EU and the US? I am curious to know how you guys have reached the conclusion you did, i.e. supervised autonomy is taking shape (as proposed by no less a person that Kate) and independence is off the table!!! To me it all smacks of desperation. And Kate you show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the situation in Kosovo. Who do you want to deport? And where would you deport them to I wonder? And what makes you think the borders can be sealed and which borders would those be? After all the Yugoslav army failed to do that and it had far more troops in Kosovo than NATO has? Mark my words guys Kosovo it's gonna be independent! This is all a desperate effort on the part of Russia and Serbia to delay things in the hope of provoking disturbances in Kosovo in order to discredit the Albanians. A very cynical policy one might say.
Oh yeah and as far as the talks are concerned: the Albanians and Serbs have had talks twice already, once in Rambouille and then the talks in Vienna. Remember the outcome? The first ended in you guys being bombed into submission, the second ended in the Ahtisaari package. What makes you so sure it will be different this time?

"...Why should the Serbian and other residents accept independence if they don't want it??

THAT'S NOT DEMOCRACY!!
(kate, Wednesday, 4 July, 2007, 12:18) "

Why should albanians exept more talks when everything is said. Albanians knows what Serbia wants , but the majority of Kosovo residents do not want that...
Is this a DEMOCRACY?

Serbs are putting up a brave face, but they are doing nothing. Serbs in Kosova are getting smaller and smaller, Russia is looking ever more ridiculous with no argument and no proposals, and Serbia with its undemocratic government (Kostunica and Tadic are in power only because the WEST wants them there, not because they won any votes) has leaders who only look after their offices. And yet, this forum is bursting with Serb optimism.

Nikshala and Teni - instead of waffling on about de-facto independence, you should realise that it is in your interests to have legitimate independence, i.e. a negotiated settlement, otherwise you'll have to live off the handouts from the US and as milton friedman said, "there's no such thing as a free lunch". they'll bleed you dry and you'll live in relative poverty.

P.S Teni, you still haven't answered my previous question which was very specific?

Nikshala,

corrrect us all if you could and prey tell when the UN resolution removing 1244 was implemented??? If that ever happens then you might be able to suggest otherwise but till then Serbia remains integral and that inculdes its province of Kosovo & Metohija & all the Serbia citizens within it!!

What next will we hear that Ceku will declare unilaterally again ??? We have heard the smae said by Kusomi and where did he go in June 2006? But what will that matter when it is evident that UN 1244 remains & states otherwise - the UNMIK will close PISG immediatly and then what? Moreover, when it is clear that the EU will not respond well to such an action and no-one will recognise this while 1244 stands without creating dire consequences as a result of their ILLEGAL actions. There will be no illegal declaration and no violence these are all bluffs to push things along but the International community are getting bored of them too!!!

Let the talks begin or keep waiting till September so that again the timetable can be shifted into the next year and then the next etc etc.....

Albano - you and the other albanians talk about the majority of Kosovo and their desires for independence i.e. a democratic vote.

why should a democratic Albanian vote be given ANY legitimacy when Serbia, which Kosovo is still legally a part, voted to keep Kosovo as it's territory?

If you declare independence unilaterally, then the Serbs in northern Kosovo will declare independence unilaterally from Kosovo with the same legitimacy. As there is already a de-facto split on the ground there is nothing you can do about it asi'm sure the US and EU would not back a new war between the albanians and serbs in Kosovo, so we have a stalemate and a partition.

Albano - There is a big difference: Kosovans wishing NOT to be independent (ie. mainly Serbs) already hold that status within their own country. They wish to preserve what they have.

Kosovans wishing for independence are seeking to change the existing status, illegally if necessary. That may be 'democratic' in the eyes of pro-separatists, but the population is part of Serbia, and therefore a minority in national terms.

Violence, threats and annexing territory is not democratic. Wanting to live within your existing country is fair to any reasonable person.

teni - Thanks for delivering the predictable attacks on my knowledge and ideas, but as I said previously, you cannot distort my words to make me sound like I am in favour of kicking anyone out of Kosovo who belongs there.

All I was speaking about were the trouble makers who stir up any violence and have actually come in from other countries such as Albania, the US or elsewhere. As in any other country, criminals and people there illegally who stoke up violence should be deported back to their own country.

While the process of independence taking longer than people thought most Serbs on this site are showing their true mentality about Albanians and getting very arrogant. Their are now sure that the Russian "nyet" will save Kosovo for them ON PAPER. I am sure however that things will happen that will destroy their illusion for ever.

Kate

Would you say the same thing if Serbs from Serbia or Bosnia or whereever came to Kosovo and started trouble (e.g. Car Lazar thugs)? Would you ask for them to be deported?

Supervised independence is no independence. We will wait until recognition and then simply boycott all international institutions in Kosova. Their only choice will be to do what we want them to do or leave. UN, EU are a peace of cake to put them in their place. We are already doing it to them, just wait until we get recognition and then you'll who's the boss.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/07/04/afx3883887.html

It's very interesting to hear all this chatter about serbs this and kosovars that the facts remain as such serbia since 1991 have started or participated in a agressive way against croats slovenians bosnians macedonias and all the minorities that hte former yugoslavia was constituted.The serbian army didn't behave terribly in the last war it was the "civilian" para-military forces which was made up of not only serbs but multi-ethinic slavs who had there way on an unarmed people .The Kla which was branded a terrorist org was mostly tring to defend kosovar civilians some albeit for personaland egotistical gain but to protect their rights

Nikshala - no, because they would still be in the same country. But of course if they break the law they should be arrested.

wow wow all these comments, be real, what are the chances of Kosovo being integrated in the "NEW" Serbia??!! nil=zero=nula people...we were there and look what happened the UN has to deal with them mess Milosevic made...Are they ready to give Kosovo back in order to deal with it again in some years time?! I don't think so. In Kosovo we have a saying what is yours is yours what is mine is mine...but here people are a bit confused about what belongs to whom!!!

Kate,

The number of Albanians from Albania in Kosova is very small and most are highly educated individuals who have come seeking work with UNMIK or the other international institutions that were established in Kosova after the war.

Your deliberate attempt to portray the Albanians from Albania as troublemakers has no basis in facts and is pure speculation, which only serves to undermine the seriousness of comments by someone who purports to uphold international law and democracy.

You also state that "violence is not democratic and neither is anxeation of territory"

Is the deportation of almost a million people, the destruction of hudnrends of thousands of houses and the mureder of almost 12,000 people democratic?

How exactly do you tell people who have lost so much to simply accept the risk of future conflict and oppression for the sake of upholding "international law"

International law itself is a very general term that includes a very large body of international legislation and norms, and the human rights legislation are an integral part of international law.

PB sorry about not answering your question, but I misunderstood the thrust of it yesterday.But first a comment about being bled dry: no one can bleed Kosovo dry to the same extent as Serbia did - I'm talking literally.
As for your question: There are Albanians in the north of Kosovo too and as far as I know the Serb government has said nothing about partition. But if they did why shouldn't Preshevo seccede from Serbia as well? Allow for that and you might have a deal. It's that simple.
And in any case (correct me if I am wrong) the monuments and churches and monasteries Serbia wants are not located in the northern part anyway. What makes your claim to the northern part so special then?

KLA protecting rights!!!OMG what are you saying?
http://www.kosovo.net/kladecapit.pdf

Kate I did not mean to offend you, but your comments simply lent themeslves to that sort of comment on my part. Troublemakers from Albania are not the problem in Kosovo, that is your knowledge problem. There are almost 2 million Albanians living there, hence there are enough "troublemakers" without importing any from Albania. That's it.

Comments of the type "Bush said independence and that is going to happen" or "Putin said Njet and there will be no independence ever", and pretty much childish.
Kosovo is under UN rule still, but it has its own government who controls and runs all internal affairs. Kosovo resources are being used by Kosovars, the people of Kosovo. Kosovo speaks Albanian, Kosovo behaves Albanian, Kosovo is all black and red. These are facts. Now if someone is happy with Kosovo being part of Serbia in some "international law" papers, than OK! Kosovo is part of Serbia! So what! It still speaks Albanian, its resources are being used by Albanians, it has its police that controls the borders, streets of Prishtina are filled with monuments of Albanian national hero's. And this is still part of Serbia? Ok! It is also part of Planet Earth, Solar System, Universe. In all geography books. But it still speaks Albanian!

Violence is always been a method of revolutionaries of every color. The Albanians posters here speak reams of Serbian violence but forget their own and use and threaten (nikshala) violence others with violence.. They speak of negotiations, democracy and international law for themselves but deny it for others. They speak of independence in terms of de jure rather than de facto. They speak of majorities like King Nikola of Montenegro when he said prior to WWI “us and the Russians are an alliance of 150 million.” Nikshala speaks about Tsar Lazar thugs but ignores Presevo Valley thugs. Arben accepts the UN presence on his terms when they protect his interests but wants them to leave when they don’t do what he wants. He writes that they will boycott all institutions in Kosovo. Seems like you did this before in 1998 and established your own school curriculum and hospitals while at the same time claiming that you were denied Human rights. Kosovo Albanians have no problem going to Belgrade for medical treatment when it is a matter of life and death and they have no problem using Serbian diplomas and legal documents when they emigrate. Albano does not want to negotiate since he claims that everything has been said and now he ignores prior agreements that his representatives signed while the Serbian side was threatened with the NATO air force Teni writes of previous talks but ignores to tell us of the use of the ultimatum at Rambouillet and his representatives signature but takes us to the second set of negotiations where the Albanian side was told by US to only negotiate independence and US will do the rest like they did at Ramboulilet. Eagle writes “what are some people excepting from new negotiations between Serbs and Albanians”? How about honesty and observance of international treaties? It is not how we remember our history it is what we do with those memories to make the future better. The future will never be better if we think that we can “have our baklava and eat it too” or if we deny others what we hope for ourselves.

Arben,

seems like you'll be waiting an eternity!!! At least even the ethnic-Albaninan leadership are starting to realise that only through direct dialogue and talks to find the solution acceptable to all in Serbia will be the only way to resolve anything - win-win is still on the cards!!!

Apparently Ceku did blurt out the proverbial "we will declare unilaterally" but it looks like others have had a quick response to that already;

"The solution that the province’s Prime Minister Agim Ceku suggested Tuesday – that of unilateral declaration of independence – has been toned down today."

Quick response indeed - one wonders who really is in charge and I guess we can only expect he's been told enough of the bluffing it's looking silly now!!!!

So now we can look forward to the talks starting in September when the French take on the UN Presidency and seeing as they already talks for 6 months then it certainly looks like no solution till March - unless of course everyone gets on with real and substantial dialogue and actually comprehends the notion of "negotiations" & "compromise". It certainly seems the case that Ahtisaari in it's entirity is not that solution!

Walter,
Serbs simply lost all right to talk about internatioal treaties and observance of international human rights after their well-known actions in the nineties but especially in 1999. A country, who treats its own citizens in such a way like Serbia did in Kosovo loses all right to refer to international normes and treaties.

Teni - our claim to the northern part is simply that we dominate that part like you do the southern part. you have probably missed what i have written before so i'll repeat it. a pragmatic solution would be to split the province and if presevo had to be included then so be it, the only argument then, being where to draw the line. i'm more interested in lives than churches although many other contributors to this forum think otherwise, that is my stance.

the serbian and albanian leaderships seem to be in a staring contest and whoever blinks first loses. this is not pragmatic. the situation as it currently stands is not good for either party. Kosovo would be denied any official seats in the world and therefore left without a voice like northern cyprus and Serbia would see it's integration into europe grind to a halt - so in my opinion, both sides should sit down, break up kosovo so both can move on and prosper.

P.S literal bleeding? Like i said using a link to demonstrate, it was the KLA, sponsored and eggedon by the CIA who started hostilities and the serbian army responeded like any other country to a terrorist threat, so the albanian leadership must take most responsibility for the kosovo war.

before you respond, as no doubt you and many other albanian comentators will, think about this - throught the 10 years that Serbs were fighting wars, the KLA was classified as a terrorist organisation by the USA, but miraculously was taken off that list 6-12 months before the war started. In other words, the albanians were being used to achieve the USA's objectives against milosevic, which also happened to suit albanians desires.

Of course that we will boycott all institutions that deny us our rights. UN, EU cannot rule kosova according to their whims. We have been listening to them because the process has been going our way, more or less. If things start to turn around, we will boycott them, just as we boycotted serbia. We will never surrender and we will never be ruled by foreigners. Any deal on Kosovo needs Albanian consensus, otherwise there is no life here. Another thing, stop talking about 'hundreds of burned churches. There have never been 100 churches in Kosova. It seems as every serb here has his or her own personal church.

JOE: You see a “sliver in your neighbor’s eye but you can’t see a log in your own” When I look at your comment I must agree with Hobbes that “in seeking peace, men ought to be willing to lay down their right to all things, if and only if others are willing to do the same” It is obvious to me that you are not one of these men and that is why we need laws.

Nick: I am perfectly aware that there are many many good law abiding people in Kosovo, many of whom may not agree with a lot of what you say especially when it comes to threatening violence.
But all reports from the UN and NGOs cites a distinct element of violent hardliners in Kosovo. Are you going to deny this?

As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants, some of whom may not have moved there legally.

I was talking about IF the hardliners who should be arrested for inciting or carrying out violence, happened to be from outside of Serbia (incl. Kosovo), they should be expelled to their home country.

What is wrong with that if it is all within legal norms?

The debate can goon for years and we maynever get toa resolution.The days of socialist,facist and communist are extinct Serbia was one of the major contributors to WW1 or did the slavs forget this.Two Everybody blames the U.S for bombing and helping the kosovars during the balkan wars we forget that the americans were serbian allies not kosovars allies. If it wasn't for the arms embargo that Bill Clinton put into affect the outcome might have had different results In 1955 when my grandfather bought our neighbors land in the ferizaj region of kosovo a statement was made that almost was proven correct i said ALMOST i sell u this land now but will get it back for free in the future.the west and your wonderful leader milosevic "excuse me while i vomit" had a plan to try and quell the simmering problems of the balkans not just kosovo.Your terriffic leader dead man milo took this as a sign of veliki serbia time .The plan might of succeded if not for the gluttony and greed of tyrant as for serbia today as it is excluding kosovois paying the price when the kosovar serbian went for help to their brothers of the north they were treated as cowards not victims because they weren't tha origanal vicitms it's this false sense of nationalism that really shouldn't exist. The slavs tried to make us a illiterate people they tried to change our sire names to vich's or vic's but couldn't the majority of yugoslavias former army consisted of 24% kosovars of albanian decent So what ever socalled history that the serb's are prophetically talking about had the help of alb kosovars

Kate

"As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999" - you are right, since 1 million where expelled during the war, and they returned to their homes after the war.

Albanians want "Full Independence" Serbs only "Autonomy".
So now we have the ahtisari plan made from the UN that means "Supervised Independence" the only compromise possible,and the albanian side accepted it by making an opening toward serbs,otherwise serbs no!Now we all are waiting for them,but we will not do this forever...as Bush said:At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough Kosovo's independent"

what was that? Kosovo is gonna be independent anyway?

But the European Union -- the " the European Union the impoverished territory's chief financial backer and potentially its future home -- says Kosovo can forget recognition if it declares independence unilaterally."

source:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUKNOA33744020070703?pageNumber=2

info for all who want to learn unbiased facts:
www.kosovocompromise.com

More "talks," hence more time until Kosova has its independence. So be it. This postponement could yeild a second November 28 Independence, a day in which Albania was declared independent back in 1912 including the territories of Kosovo, Ulqin (Montenegro) and Cameria (northern Greece) prior to the notorious Peace Conference in London, 1913, that left Albania maimed. Aside from history, during the internal conflicts in Yugoslavia, Serbs fought everywhere and eager to preserve the confederate. I recall Holbrook's statement back in 1999 when he said that Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians have much in common, they are slavs, speak the same language; the only difference is religion. When it comes to Albanians [under the Serbs], there isn't much commonality between the two. Albanians aren't slavs, they speak Albanian, et al. Albanians have suffered enough in their land. No matter what the Russians and Serbs say at this point, Albanians will see their day in freedom.

Kate ,
According to you , it is very democratic when 0.5 % of population would rule in Kosovo I know thats not democratic, but it is serbian democracy that way , how ever , you are talking about a territorial integrity of Serbia, never mind lets talk about it , you might just have forgot, that Kosovo, was a constituiv unit in ex-Yu the same as it was Serbia or all the other republics, in that constitution never is said that Kosovo can not be apart from Serbia.
Serbia changed many times, but it was to late allready, the WAR was started from serbian nationalists. So, I do not think you or anyone else can make any albanian living today in Kosovo , to be ruled from 0.5 % of population in there , an more less, to be again in any kind of federation with Serbia.

PB
I think thats only thing what your politicians try to get , however , if that goes through , what aboutSerbia itself, should then the Vojvodina, Sancak, and Presevo vally , go away from it, then it will be true "all the serbs in one state " , but it will be really Beogradski pasaluk, so please try to be moderate , let the issue take its way, and lets be happy at the end, becouse even I ( and I assume ) lot of people in Serbia knows that there is no future in the Russian side for Serbia

kate:
Only once in the second part of the last century Kosovo had only 1 million inhabitants, and here you are correct: It was during spring 1999, when some 800.000 up to a million were driven out of Kosovo by Milosevic's armed forces. In June 1999, they came back to their homes and in the period of one or two weeks, Kosovo got its million back. It seems that you somehow wish that they have stayed in refugee camps in Macedonia and Albania. Milosevic had the same wish!
It's true, Kosovo is densely populated but people are in their homes and in their land. More than 2 million by now!

"As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999"

Give me one link, however ridiculous or biased it may be that supports this statement. I will be expecting your answer.

"But all reports from the UN and NGOs cites a distinct element of violent hardliners in Kosovo. Are you going to deny this?"

Every society has violent and radical elements and Serbia is the last country to lecture others on "violent, hardliners" after Arkan, Seselj, Legija and the current majority of the hardline SRS in the parliament.

Any radical elements in the Kosova society have no real power and it is our elected representatives who are promoting our independence and representing us in talks with the international community.

Also, none of us here are threatning violence. We are simply pointing out the obvious and trying to explain to you what happens when 2 million people (any people) are left to wait for decades and then betrayed.

Obviously the Kosova Albanians have not been betrayed by the international community as of now, but nevertheless we are attempting to give you a clear reflection of what may happen if such an unlikely thing occurs.

To kate ~

As for the numbers of people from other countries living in Kosovo, the population has swelled from 1 million to 2 million since the start of 1999 and it is fair to suppose that there has been a fair amount of immigrants, some of whom may not have moved there legally.

A great number of people residing within the borders of KosovO aren't there legally, nor do they pay taxes to the government. Would you like these people living with you or your parents or in your coffee shops?

You have obviously been living a sheltered & pro-libertarian lifestyle. Come back to the real world and realize what/who the real problem is. All those people that have "swelled" into KosovO.

Its obvious only US and the Pristina puppet regime want independence. The Serbs of alban orgin in Kosovo have shown through their lack of participation in the demonstrations (only 600) that they dont care about independence and simply wish to put this behind them and get on with their lives living in an autonomus Kosovo.

Please U serbs & Co, stop apointing links to your propaganda and very rhetoric speeches from your beloved priests about albanians...

now that BIG CHINA is presiding the security council, i think it will propose 1 COUNTRY 2 SYSTEMS like in Hong Kong which just celebrated its 10th year handover. it may become a successful model for Kosovo and Serbia. it is definitely a success. hajde hajde.

ari,

You are a sensible Albanian writer here. And I agree with you. Let Kosovo be 90% all things Albanian, no one can or should take that away from you. As far as language is concerned while at work and in school both Serbian and Albanian should be spoken that means even the Serbs who chose to live in Kosovo should be made to speak and learn both languages just as the Albanins should me made to do the same. All Serbia wants is to preserve its borders. The Albanins should rule themselves and preserve their culture, other then the language issue at work and school ONLY everything else should be 90% all things Albanien. If at least 20% of the Kosovo population was as brave as you to agree to this then all this nonsense would truly once and for all be over, by 2010 Serbia would be in the EU and Kosovo would too! It is time for an uprising against Albanian nationalist like Nick, time to tell them to conform or leave, there is no place for people like that in Kosovo's future, Albanian or Serbian. Also once things have settled down the Albanian government in Kosovo should deport all peoples who cannot prove that they are in Kosovo legally, and their are quite a lot of them. Increased numbers of illegal people in Kosovo does not benefit Kosovo, it will cost Kosovo after things are settled down.

"Also, none of us here are threatning violence. We are simply pointing out the obvious and trying to explain to you what happens when 2 million people (any people) are left to wait for decades and then betrayed."

what a contradiction!
the only thing you are right about is that you are being duped...by your friends. sorry, but it seems to become clearer and clearer as the time goes by.

I can remember one of you threatening " hell will break loose" ...maybe, that was only a remark to make us shiver, hum?

since I do not want to accuse somebody of decieving if I am not sure of it I can only assume that you don´t know what your own boys say here in the forums...