Presidents leave Kosovo to diplomats

Come on now serbs, be quick. Find a favorable explanation for this. Kosovo is gone.

SO, NO MORE ACE???. no more big cards, sorry. we all know by now the celebrated putin-bush short vacation outcome. the lobster was delicious indeed that they almost forgot kosovo. BACK TO SQUARE 1.

But isn't it interesting that Gallach has no problem with the US imposing its will for Europe. Last time I checked, the United States is not part of Europe. Russia has more say in Europe because it actually is a European country. This man is clearly biased, which is no surprise, and therefore what he has to say is a joke.

"Frustrated by years of delay in resolving Kosovo's status, the province's elected government is threatening a unilateral declaration of independence. Steven Meyer of Washington's National Defense University says that would create problems for U.S. diplomacy. "Because, if the United States recognizes this, it makes it much more difficult for us to claim that we are on the side of international law, of democratic procedure, and so forth, to see a breakaway province, sort of illegally, against the U.N.'s wishes, sort of move in that direction. If we don't recognize (a unilateral declaration), then it becomes a problem with the Albanian majority, who has been pretty pro-American and would begin to see us in a very different light," he said."
http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-07-02-voa72.cfm

Since the EU have stated that they stand by only UN decisions and a vetoed resolution will be the outcome of Ahtisaari 1244 would still stand. Thus any Illegal US recognition will be acted alone and not with the EU;

"The vast majority of Europeans will not go along with a unilateral recognition of Kosovo," Luxembourg's foreign minister, Jean Asselborn, warned recently"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,491781,00.html
Thus the US are in a bit of a pickle do they act ILLEGALLY and by themselves while undermining the legitamacy for NATO troops prescence in Serbia's province???
Or,
upset the ethnic-Albanians (all 200 on the marches last week) with the reality that they could never deliver on what was not theirs to promise!

But then I recall the last time they helped so called "friends" in the 80's - the muhajedin - who are better known as the Taleban in recent years - I guess they need to be more weary of whom they consider "friends" and whom they really trust as "friends"!

The fact remains that such an ILLEGAL act by the US would require the withdrawal of NATO troops since they are legitamised by 1244 and the US would be breaking this contract - maybe this is what Polt hinted at;

"What if we were to tell you today that we were wrong and that Kosovo is yours, and that we are withdrawing our forces from Kosovo by Saturday. What then, the US ambassador asked on Tuesday, following a public speech delivered on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Marshall Plan, "
http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n115864

So the US are considering all the possible scenario's of "what if" to get out of this pickle (or as stated in February self made trap) and are even public with such statements. It is clear that they are in a pickle and it looks like this will be consigned to the "too difficult to deal with" pile(i.e. continuation of Status Quo) much like the other "frozen conflicts" - so much for uniqueness!!

Thus for now Staus Quo is back unless, of course, a new realism that talks and dialogue must continue to find a solution that is acceptable to all in Serbia!!!

So what is it to be real talks that are based on real principles of the terms "mediation" & "negotiation" or at best Status Quo???

All ethnic-Albaninans while considering Status Quo continuation realise that Status Quo for Pridnestrovie is now into it's 17th year and as such it is likely that continuation of Status Quo for Kosovo & Metohija would see another decade!!!

EU is following the footsteps of President Bush. A time will come when enough is enough and russia will be out of the game.

It looks like there was a agreement about the decision and deadline for that decision. We are not sure of the status yet but something is going to happen.

I would like to ask you all that oppose the Independence of Kosova, what do you foresee to happen if SC votes in favour, including Russia, of Kosova independence. I am sure that many of you have degrees in Int. Law etc. would come out with something constructive. Please do not propose WAR, ISOLATION but ways of cooperation and reconciliation.

I know what would happen in Kosova but cannot imagine what do you think that would happen in Serbia. C’mon Princip UK, Kate, Jovan

I have spoken to many Serbs. Most of them would not really care as they are really tired from dealing with the failures of the politicians in the past and of those that support them. Many of you are still supporting the failures as a result of which the Serbian people are suffering. Get out of the box be more pragmatic and don’t harm your own people for your personal interests. People in Serbia have so many problems and much poverty . They need fresh ideas to prosper not ideas that brought them into these crisis.

Ahmet - the EU is most certainly NOT following Bush!

Princip,

For someone who constantly advocates a win-win and a peaceful solution to the Kosova problem you are greatly mistaken in underestimating the resolve of the Kosova Albanians by stating “upset the ethnic-Albanians (all 200 on the marches last week)”

After reading your comment one can not help but wonder whether your true goal is to cause the Kosova Albanians to protest, riot and destroy anything and everything without any cause or justification. I am sure you would cherish the opportunity to label the Kosova Albanians as lawless people who know nothing better than to riot.

For reference on the resolve of the Kosova Albanians to achieve their goal of independence from Serbia please refer to the protests of 1981, 1990, 1997-8 and the war of 1999.

As in every democracy, not all people agree with the goals and objectives of Albin Kurti and his Vetvendosja movement. Some people consider his methods and requests to be unrealistic.

Albin Kurti demands full independence without granting so much rights and territorial autonomy to the Kosova Serbs, something which most Kosova Albanians do not agree with. We truly believe that the Serbs should and must rule themselves in the areas where they are a majority with substantial rights and autonomy in the areas of finance, budget, administration and security.

Furthermore, Albin Kurti as a person is seen by many people to be a Che Guevara want to-be, a person who lives in an imaginary world of endless and unjustified revolution.

I mean no disrespect to Mr. Kurti, after all he has been fighting for an independent Kosova since he was a student and I have nothing but the outmost respect for the principles which he stands for. However, I do not agree with some of his methods and his unjustified criticism of our elected representatives.

The Kosova Albanians now have a Government and a Parliament and the general feeling is that they would rather follow their elected representatives that some people who may pop up here and here. We struggled for decades to build out state institutions and we are not as foolish as you would like us to be to follow anyone that shouts “independence”.

Rest assured that if our President and Prime Minister got on TV and told us to get to the streets because that is the only way to ensure the formal recondition of Kosova, you would have 2 million people on the streets of Kosova within a few hours.

In the unlikely event that the Kosova issue drags on for an unreasonable period of time, then I believe it is our Government and our Parliament that should channel the dissatisfaction of the people of Kosova, rather than leave smaller groupings to channel such dissatisfaction.

Veton Surroi and some of the other members of the unity group have already stated that their principal responsibility is towards the people of Kosova and not the requests of the international community and I was particularly pleased to hear those statements.

The height of hypocracy - a statement by Agim Ceku ""Partition is out of the question," he told Reuters on Tuesday. "If you start redrawing borders in the Balkans, the big question is where you will stop."

Funny how this reluctance to redraw borders applies to the albanians and not to the lawful owners of Kosovo, Serbia.

Looks like my wish will come true and Kosovo will be partitioned - without presevo or bujanovac,etc being given to Kosovo, see link http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUKNOA33744020070703?pageNumber=4

Kate,

The EU said they FULLY SUPPORT the Ahtisari Plan but they WILL NOT follow the US lead to recodnize an unilateral recognition of independence is such independence is declared by Kosova without a UNSC resolution.

The US and EU dissagree on the method of gaining independence while independence itself is the favorite solution of both the US and the EU.

Anyone who thinks the EU and the US are going to work together on this issue need only look to Iraq. Seems there that the EU is enjoying sitting back and doing nothing while the US squirms in Baghdad.Notice here that as soon as the US mentioned unilateral recognition, the EU opposed this.The united front of the EU and US doesnt exist anymore.

If it isn't obvious now to the albanians that the EU will not follow the US lead, then it never will be. The EU have explicitly stated that they will only recognise Kosovo if the UN recognises Kosovo and that is never going to happen unless Russia does not use it's veto.

So, it's down to the US and Russia to determine Kosovo's future. The EU is out of the frame now. Judging by Primakov's comments it looks likely that a compromise will be sought whereby Kosovo will be partitioned (something i advocated all along) and the only issues will be where the border will be. Unfortunately for the Albanians Presevo and Bujanovac won't be included in those talks so their idea of a greater albania is slowly grinding to a halt.

Ahmet Isufi et al, stop boring everyone with the continued talk of serbian aggression, Kosovo independence as punishment of serbia, etc,etc. if you'd read the links in the previous comments i made (day two: bush-putin talks) you'd see the real reason for the carve up of former yugoslavia, so save your breath and bring some real discussion to the forum.

P.S i'm not surprised that the albanians and croats and their supportesr have not commented yet on the linked articles i talk about as no doubt it is highly embarassing to their cause and vision as the victims in the balkan wars. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

Nick in reply to;

"After reading your comment one can not help but wonder whether your true goal is to cause the Kosova Albanians to protest, riot and destroy anything and everything without any cause or justification. I am sure you would cherish the opportunity to label the Kosova Albanians as lawless people who know nothing better than to riot. "

On the contrary I believe the therats of violence are and were bluff by the US to speed things along so that this seemed as decision which "must be done now". The reality is as I said before

No Independence
No Unilateral declaration
No Illegal recognition
No Violence - that is what NATO are therefore.

Only those who want to force in haste and impose are the ones who suggest violence will come if the status is not decieded - but they have been saying this since 2005 - but then are we stating that the pre-eminant military organisation - NATO cannot function effectivly and is ineffectual? They have said they are ready and prepared so don't expect violence any day soon and expect any ILLEGAL nonsense to be immediatly revoked by the UN and the removal of all self-governing insitutions since this is mandated by 1244 and it will act as it should. Violence will be immediatly quelled by NATO so this is nothing bar a bluff!

This is the strongest signal the EU has sent to date that they are getting tired of Russia blocking the process. I actually think the EU is getting tired with Russia, but that's besides the point. And for the last time guys: we do not plan to create a Greater Albania. I guess that you are so obssesed with a Greater Serbia that you cannot conceive of other countries not wanting to be greater. For us it is enough to have an independent Kosovo and the freedom of movement between the two that was denied to us for so long. That's it.

I think this war criminal ceku has lost all of his credibility way back in croatia.

After what Bush said recently in Albania, he was never going to say anything different after this mini summit.

'Leaving it to the diplomats' is a diplomatic way of saying that things may have to change - but without having to admit a change of stance publically.

There is an acknowledged problem - and it is no good just saying 'it will have to be decided soon'.

There are fundamental problems that are not going to be resolved through giving independence - these include the illegality of the act given what was signed for in 1244, the very dangerous precedent that will be set, the likely split that will occur in Kosovo, the economic disadvantage it will bring to Kosovo, the resulting potential growth in nationalist tendancies in adjacent countries.

Serbia's case now quite strong - in addition to the legal argument, it now has a democratic EU looking government. It would be wrong for democratic Serbs to have to suffer yet another nationalist back-lash and potential anti-European feeling. It is easly for nationalists to correctly label the decision as a NATO conquest followed by western imposition - not the 'humanitarian' intervention it was purported to be. Serbia is moving on democratically, and the EU and the US have promises to keep because of that - that includes giving respect as given to any democratic country.

It would help Serbia's case if Mladic would give himself up. If he believes that Kosovo belongs to Serbia he should submit himself for trial immediately.

The KAlbanians do deserve a high degree of self governance - by cooperative agreement with Serbia and guaranteed by the international community.

The problem is that the international diplomats have gone down a different route, and they (like Bush) do not want to admit that there is a good and realistic alternative. The diplomats now need to be seen to have explored this alternative completely and openly. Until it has been explored they will not be seen to have done their job properly.

teni - if that's the case, why are you flying the Albanian flag?

Teni - well if the albanains are not trying to create a greater albania, but just want to have freedomm of movement, why then are they so determined to keep the serbian part of Kosovo if they aren't trying to grab land - i.e. a greater albania.

Since Putin didn't say NO, we are back to the "holy war" between Serbia and USA.

Nick wrote:
"The EU said they FULLY SUPPORT the Ahtisari Plan but they WILL NOT follow the US lead to recodnize an unilateral recognition of independence is such independence is declared by Kosova without a UNSC resolution."

This is the heart of the matter and where the money-line ends. Without that UN approval, the EU will not walk in step with the US. For once, I agree with Ceku when he finally acknowledged the Catch-22 he and his government were in, and this makes Russia's hand all the more powerful because all they have to do now is stall. Stall, so a UN resolution is killed, so the EU doesn't follow through, so Pristina is forced to do what it has been threatening to do, and finally force the US to show how commited they are to the whole deal as well. If the US doesn't recognize a unlateral declaration, Kosovo's sovereignty is null and void, but Washington loses the support of quite possibly the only remaining pro-American government in Europe.

It's funny how we all foresee the potential "nightmare" scenario, but all seem to still be careening towards it. The only way this can be resolved peacefully and diplomatically is through compromise, and if Ceku is worth his weight in rakija, he would realize the bind his government is in, and offer sweeping concessions to Serbia in order to get his independence goal met.

Kate!
"But everything has a deadline and if there is no solution, at one point, we will have to make a decision,” Gallach said.
Aren't theese words similar to Bush's, in his visit to Tirana.

For information, I'm posting a paragraph from the PBS link ( http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec07/putin_07-02.html) about the latest Bush/Putin meeting.

"On Kosovo, Putin is saying, "Serbia is opposed to making Kosovo independent. You cannot dismember an independent sovereign state like Serbia without its permission." Then he's saying, "Well, but maybe, maybe we can abstain from this vote, if it would be a precedent for the unrecognized states, two separatist enclaves in Georgia, which actually want to be part of Russia." Bush is saying, "No way. Kosovo is not a precedent."

My interpretation of this is that Russia, compared to US, has a much weaker stance / resolve, and it will probably obstain from the UN vote.

What is your interpretation of this?

it´s always the same old tune...

"you underestimate the albanian resolve.." yeah, ahum.
and in the same time they are writing, "I talked to many Serbs, they are not interested..."
are you writing this in order to feel yourself better, or what?

who do you think is gonna believe this naiv e try to decieve the readers here?

by now, I can identify most of the albanian writers here by reading their first two or three lines...it´s really interesting, they cannot write something really new, it´s always the same boring stuff: hidden threats and accusations...

"What is your interpretation of this?
(Luan, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 16:08) "
Simes is guessing what the 2 presidents might have said. Nothing more, nothing less.

And Kosovo was not even mentioned in the Bush-Putin joint statement -- now would you like to interpret that! Obviously there was no agreement unless they would have declared it to the whole world!

i say this again guys. APRIL became APRIL FOOLS DAY; MAY became MAYDAY; JUNE became DJUNT KNOW WHEN; now is JULY which became hey JOE-LAY down on Kosovo. as abdul said, ACES are spent. but its good to be optimistic in order not to inspire violence. giving hope and promises is a good diplomatic stuff.

Yes Jovan

'till now you never came up with something constructive. All you have done is harmed to your people that live in Kosova. They have listened to the messages similar to yours in this site, now they are tired since. I believe that Jovans like you is better if they do not identify themselves as Serbs.

Multi ethnic Kosova is moving ahead. Jovans,Princips, Kates stay away. We know best what suit us.

Kate you are reading too much in a flag. In the first place that is the flag of the Albanian people and not of the Republic of Albania. A lot of Albanians from Kosovo do look at Albania as their motherland, and I know that there are people in both Kosovo and Albania proper who dream of a union, but that is not realistic and most Albanians realise that. Suffice it to say that not a single Albanian political party has come out in favor of a union. Emotionally we might like the idea but if we stop to think about it it is simply not worth the trouble. Amongst Albanians in Albania proper where I come from there is even greater reluctance to join the two states in one then there is in Kosovo. And if we can travel and trade etc freely who needs a union anyway? As things stand at the moment it is almost as if we were the same country and that is good enough. Furthermore neither Albania nor Kosovo would be able to absorb each other and given that we both hope to become part of the EU we don't need to do that anyway.

To PB
I don't know what you mean by land grab but anyway: that was a Kosovar Albanian matter and we supported them just as you did in Bosnia and Croatia. We are the same people after all whether in Albania or Kosovo.
And you shouldn't make the mistake of underestimating the feelings of the Albanians about Kosovo. They are just as strong as those of the Serbs. The only difference is that we make up 90% of the population there. The reason why no Albanian will agree to a return to Serbian rule and the reason why all Albanians will do whatever is in their power to make Kosovo independent is because of our two people's history: the Albanians and the Serbs. You might have noticed that we haven't had a very friendly history. Just to make it clearer: Would you agree to become a part of the Ottoman Empire again? For us Serbia is the equivalent of what the Ottomans were for you. It's that simple.

Iowe,

You still didn’t interpret that paragraph. Surely you don’t think that all that transcript is just guessing – these experts actually speak to advisors of both Bush and Putin – give them a little more credit! Also, you don’t need to state the obvious, “Kosovo was not even mentioned in the Bush-Putin joint statement,” of course it was not, but you cannot believe it was not discussed, even if for a very short time. Iowe, can you pretend, for the sake of argument, that Putin did say that, and give us your understanding of it!?
Peace!

Ceku and company as well as many who post here play the game of International law when it suits them. Ceku and his compatriots are not willing to grant others what they want for themselves. You can see that in the posts above. At Ramboulet the Albanians signed and agreed that Kosovo is part of Serbia. Ceku attempted a Ramboulet style negotiation process recently and basically refused to negotiate hoping for the hammer from Bush.. Ceku refused to negotiate anything short of theft of Serbia’s territory however, Ceku’s hope for another Ramboulet ultimatum “sign or we will bomb you again” did not materialize from Bush.
Ramboulet to Albanian leadership was a means to an end they had no intention of observing it then or now even though they signed it. International law means nothing to Ceku and his compatriots.. It is clear that Ramboulet was a sham and a breach of International law of the highest order just like their recent negotiations were a sham. It is clear that Ceku and company will not abide by what they sign. European Union finally understands the Russian proverb “fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me”. So Mr. Ceku negotiate keeping in mind international law and what you have signed and give others what you want for yourself.

As an American I am very happy to see relations with the Russians accorded the highest priority.Look how great we have been cooperating with the space station as one example.Putin is a brilliant man and Bush understands that the long term security of the US is more dependant on cooperation with Russia than any single issue like the Kosovo question.If the EU is serious about peace in Europe what proposals do they have for Cyprus,Moldova/Transdniester,Bosnia/Republika Srpska among others?I say it is time to allow all 7 Cefta countries into the EU RIGHT NOW in order to give the people there a clear European existence sooner rather than later.Extremists must be dealt with forcefully but the majority of people are more interested in a better economic life.Kosovo would join the EU 20 years earlier as part of a Serbian confederation than as a self-declared state which the Europeans will never recognize without a UNSC Resolution which any even half rational person understands is not going to happen.

Teni - you didn't answer my specific question. Why do you albanians think you have a right to northern Kosovo which is Serbian dominated?

If it was truly a war about Serbian oppression of the Albanian population then i could understand the Albanian position, but when the Albanians want to take northern Kosovo as well, where the Serbs are in the majority, then there is only one conclusion to be drawn - a land grab, greater albania, whatever you want to call it.

Mike,

What sweeping concessions can be made to a government that brutalised it's own citizens. Kosova Parliament and it's people cannot and will not budge to the obstructionist pressure put forth by Russia and Serbia. Kosova is Albanian lands and there no concessions should be made. Serbs are minorities in these areas. They are welcome to live if they choose so. Kosova Serbs should get no much or less than what Serbia is offering to Preseva valley Albanians.

I was under impression that the government of Serbia had submitted a document with a proposed solution to the Kosovo issue to Moscow so Putin can discuss this document with Bush. So, I wonder whatever happened to this document? Is Kostunica going to announce what this document contained during the parliamentary session regarding Kosovo? Or is it that even the Russians have realized how much out of touch is the current prime minister and his government as to deem the document as unworthy of their time? Does anyone know anything about the fate of this document? Or the whole speculation about the document was a propaganda ploy by Kostunica to deceive his nation even more? How long Kostunica is going to mislead his nation and hold them to false claims and hopes? I am a bit curious to see what this fictional document contained ...

Gallack was very clear. Russia is acting like a stubborn irresponsible teenager. Europe will deal with Russia for a while and try to pacify it. In the end nobody can dream of letting Russia's will suceed. In the end the EU will do the responsible thing to do: proclaim Kosova's independence.

Olf..., Olf... don´t you have something really different to offer here?
I mean, you are just playing this whole game the 99th time ... either it´s how bad the Serbs are, or it is how bad the Albanians have been treated, or ...as a variation, how "the Serbs commenting here, are harming their own poeple in KosovO" ...

first, you should learn the correct name is Kosovo, with an "o", serbian genitive case ( " grammatically it´s the "genetivus possessivus")

so, it´s so terribly wrong writing or saying it with an "a" at the end...since it is a serbian term that has no meaning whatsoever in the albanian language...
but, since you are pretending to be some "scandinavian", calling yourself "Olf"... you certainly do not know that, right?

I will come to Kosovo, sooner rather than later...it´s only a question of time!

it is a shame that boys like you even dare to talk about "multi-ethnic Kosovo" since it is just you, the Albanians who are brutally cleansing all non-albanians away, by shooting on kids bathing in the river, burning down churches and desacrating christian graveyards... you should feel ashamed, indeed.

In case nobody has noticed. This is not 1999. Russia is stronger and the United States is weaker.

The United States is bogged down in an unwinnable war in Iraq, and their other war in Afghanistan isn't going very well. No matter what the Americans might want, they are no longer in a position to use military force to get their way in Kosovo.

Europe is directly dependant on Russia for energy, and the U.S. is indirectly depandant on the Russians for the same thing.

Putin is the one holding the cards. Energy is in short supply because of American actions in the Middle East. The Russians could wreck havoc on the Western economy if they wanted to.

Russia is opposed to Kosovo's independence for its own internal political reasons -- namely it does not want to be forced to recognize Russian secessionist movements in Moldova and Georgia. The U.S. and the EU don't have any carrot they can offer.


They're not going to get real independence, the best they can hope to accomplish is to turn Kosovo into a sort of European Kashmir.

The Americans and the E.U. have no intention to make Kosovo independent anyway. If the Ahtisaari plan were implemented Kosovo would be nothing more than a ward of the EU. "Supervised Independence" is an oxymoron. You may as well argue that East Germany was independent -- it's independence was just supervised by the Soviet Union.

Here is the bottom line:
Most of you serbs, will never realize until it will become a fact, the Independence! Serbs do not agree, neither we expect them to agree, it will take a long time, perhaps a generation of folks from out there, to really start changing their mentality educated by the Serbian Academia!
Serbs have always underestimated an Albanian. Not only Serbs, but the entire nations of the Balkans have been having more or less respect for Albanians. This is the underestimated Albanian who succeeded diplomatically to convince the world to bomb Belgrade. This is the Albanian who managed to drive all Serbian forces out of Kosovo. This is the Albanian who will attain every aspiration he has, sooner or later you will have to deal with the reality. The truth might be painful, but it's the truth you have to live with.
Kosovo will be independent. No doubt, there will be 2 Albanian states in the Balkans. The Albanian is the next most powerful individual you will deal in the next 50 years. The politics, the international law, the economy is going to place this Albanian, you hate so much, in the center of the Europe.

The Serb, my neighbor should start to understand how important is to build a good relationship with us. The serbian kids want to have a future as well. They want to be in the family of Europe, not see war and crime and be educated how to hate. It is the innocent child who needs help, that's the one you all need to work for. Forget Kosovo, that is a story way gone!

Peace and Respect

Dear editors of B92,

Please, don't change my comments unless there is something obscene or racial in them. Saying, "Preseva valley is an Albanian land," is no reason to cut it out of my comment. There is nothing more there than Serbs claiming land in Kosova, Bosnia, or Croatia.
I believe it's good to publish comments as they are and if they happen to be harsh on whichever side, that reality shouldn't be censored since it serves only one purpose, "Hiding the real sentiments from both sides of the argument".

“Here's the thing, when you're dealing with a world leader, you wonder whether or not he's telling the truth,” Bush told reporters Monday. “I've never had to worry about that with Vladimir Putin. Sometimes he says things I don't want to hear, but I know he's always telling me the truth.”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070703-0807-bush-putin.html

- so the result of this non-summit is that Bush trusts Putins word and when Putin says a solution must be found between all in Serbia then I guess this is how we should interpret the way forward!

Looking forwad to the real talks that are about to begin with an actual mediator who understands the meaning of "negotiations".

Jovane - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! I really appreciate you validating the correct spelling of KosovO as I have in many of my posts. It would be nice if SOMEONE could recognize that although they are "writing" English, it's incorrect -

It's KosovO! Cestitam!

Destan Belaxhia
Its so obvious that there is NEVER going to be independence that its almost funny when you say otherwise.

By the way, they are now talking about having talks without haveing independence as the outcome. We all know thats just them buying time to remove Ceku and Thatci and replace them with someone willing to accept autonomy. Even France has proposed this.

Walter, I never heard that this was a Russian proverb "fool me once shame on you, full me twice shame on me".
Wow, I learned something today.
I thought plagiarism was not good to use.

"Iowe, can you pretend, for the sake of argument, that Putin did say that, and give us your understanding of it!?
Peace!
(Luan, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 17:16)"

I don't see your point in pretending that Putin did say something ..... I am more interested in what he (and Bush) actually said or, more importantly, agreed ..... and clearly there was no consensus between both of them on Kosovo ...... and I continue to question the credibility of those sources of that article. Seems nothing more than hearsay or wild guesses to me.

Luan,

I read that article too, and it made me laugh.

"Well, but maybe, maybe we can abstain from this vote, if it would be a precedent for the unrecognized states, two separatist enclaves in Georgia, which actually want to be part of Russia."

Dimitri Simes doesn’t seem to understand the situation at all. OK, he’s arguing that Russia might abstain because it would make it easier for them to absorb additional territory. However, if Russia wanted precedent to absorb those regions, they’d be far better off vetoing independence then if they abstained. If Kosovo unilaterally declares independence and the US recognizes them outside of the UN, then Russia has free rein to do the same wherever they choose. Might be North of the Ibar, might be in Georgia, might be both, who knows? If they abstain, then the precedent would be they have to get UNSC approval for any recognizing they wanna do. Hence, our good friend Dimitri doesn’t seem to have a very good grasp of what’s going on here.

“I would like to ask you all that oppose the Independence of Kosova, what do you foresee to happen if SC votes in favour… Please do not propose WAR, ISOLATION but ways of cooperation and reconciliation. (Olf, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 11:50)”

Olf, I think it depends a lot on how Kosovo handles the situation. I would like to see the Albanians treat our Churches with respect and encourage religious tourism to our Holy sites. I’d like to see a continued Serbian presence in our Holy areas. When Kosovo joins the EU then the situation might normalize. Hopefully more Serbs will move there and be free to live and work there. I know for sure I will teach my son the importance of Kosovo and what it meant to our family. If I can figure out how to buy some land in Kosovo, I will most certainly do so. Its probably a great time to buy property there. I think all of us here in Diaspora should at the very least purchase summer homes there. Its going to be a struggle to convince the Albanians there to view our cultural monuments as economic necessities rather then personal liabilities, but that will come in time.

Destan,

Well there are a number of problems I have with your reply, which I think contributes to the stalemate you and your fellow Albanians seem to find themselves in.

Your money quote: "Kosova Parliament and it's people cannot and will not budge to the obstructionist pressure put forth by Russia and Serbia."

Well, it increasingly seems like they will HAVE to budge if they want to achieve their primary goal of independence. Serbia, as still the rightful and legal owner of the land has every right to obstruct what it sees as separatism.

The question I pose to you and your comrades is what price are you willing to pay in order to see Kosovo independent? Unilateral declaration will bring you nothing. If Ceku unilaterally declares on Monday, I guarantee you Serb tanks will reach the northern banks of the Ibar on Tuesday, and they would have every right to do so. That, along with no EU state recognizing you, no international economic aid coming in, will make an outcome you really don't want, despite the viewpoints and spin your government at Koha Ditore is saying.

Your best bet is to realize that if your primary goal is independence, you will need to meet the price Serbia (pressured by Russia) will set. Claiming Kosovo is, was, and always will be yours, doesn't mean squat in international law, or international arbitration. The reality is that Serbia will not let Kosovo go without a heavy price. If independence means that much to you and your fellow Albanians, if that is the one thing you have been yearning over for years, let's see what you're willing to offer as compensation.

To Jovan!
How,I repeat How can You be so SURE that children killers at a river you mentioned in your comment Where,I repeat Where albanian? You saw them?
Until something is not verified everybody is suspect even you and me.
So stop fishing in dark water.

To Mr. GentFazliu:

"Not only Serbs, but the entire nations of the Balkans have been having more or less respect for Albanians."
Sorry, but it's not clear what you want to say: have we (the other nations of Balkans - e.g. we, Romanians) been respectful toward Albanians or not? And based on what you would assess this attitude, in such a general manner? For example, the fact that the Albanian anthem is a Romanian patriotic song (composed by the Romanian author Ciprian Porumbescu, 1853–1883) and it was kindly granted one century ago to Albanian patriots by their Romanian fellows, is this a proof of respect? Or the fact that the small Albanian minority of 477 (yes, four hundred seventy seven individuals, according to the 2002 census) living in Romania has one reserved seat in the Romanian Parliament?

To me, this statement sounds a little like paranoia, and at least offensive to those "nations of Balkans" among which also mine - the Romanian one - is to be counted.

Maybe it is the moment for Kosovo Albanians to cool down a little and to look around: no matter how this issue of Kosovo independence will end up, Kosovo Albanians will still live here, close to those "nations of Balkans" you may desconsider today, probably under the impression that Bush jr. goes to bed in the night and wakes-up in the morning with only Albanians interests in mind... Any of those "nations of Balkans" is as honourable as the Albanians of Kosovo are, and has as many assets and maybe even more than Kosovo! Do not make the mistake to believe that Kosovo&Albanians do not need friends since they have (for the moment) Americans as close friends etc. This final status solution will be not the end of the troubles, but only the beginning and you'll need all the friends one can get! So keep your dignity and stop implying that you, Kosovo Albanian, deserve anything and you can threaten, because the world is far too big and Kosovo is... what it is! I am looking at it right now, over the window!!!
Maybe for you, Kosovo is the belly-button of the world, that's fine, who cares about it? But do not overestimate yourself, showing lack of respect and gratitude!

As for this: "The politics, the international law, the economy is going to place this Albanian, you hate so much, in the center of the Europe"...
- well, very comendable and ambitious, don't forget to announce us when you'll do this and you'll have our sincere congratulations! Until then, maybe you would practice some respect for the other "nations of Balkans"?

PS: Kosovo is already partitioned de facto, North of Ibar. Albanians should get used with the idea, Serbia also, there will be no other borders changed (e.g. Macedonia), Albania will stay low just to keep EU support and a limbo situation like Cyprus will continue for years in Kosovo, with peacekeepers and so, until EU will absorb Kosovo because only Kosovo will still be outside! Of course, maybe the Albanian leadership in Pristina will make some miracles of public administration, hard to believe but not impossible. Good luck!

GentFazliu you need to practice what you preach. Like Ghandi who saw himself as both a Muslim and a Hindu you have to be both a Serb and an Albanian to understand that. Unfortunately I don’t see that in many posts including yours

LAZAR my research indicates that this phrase is of Russian origin but some say its origin is unknown. On the other hand I may be at fault since I am a loyal Star Trekker and like Chekhov on star Trek I believe that Scotch whisky was invented by a little old lady in Leningrad. The Garden of Eden was located just outside of Moscow and Cinderella was a Russian tale. But on the other hand You prefer it to be from Tennessee as Bush quotes it “fool me once shame on you if fooled can’t get fooled again”.

Come on now serbs, be quick. Find a favorable explanation for this. Kosovo is gone.

SO, NO MORE ACE???. no more big cards, sorry. we all know by now the celebrated putin-bush short vacation outcome. the lobster was delicious indeed that they almost forgot kosovo. BACK TO SQUARE 1.

But isn't it interesting that Gallach has no problem with the US imposing its will for Europe. Last time I checked, the United States is not part of Europe. Russia has more say in Europe because it actually is a European country. This man is clearly biased, which is no surprise, and therefore what he has to say is a joke.

"Frustrated by years of delay in resolving Kosovo's status, the province's elected government is threatening a unilateral declaration of independence. Steven Meyer of Washington's National Defense University says that would create problems for U.S. diplomacy. "Because, if the United States recognizes this, it makes it much more difficult for us to claim that we are on the side of international law, of democratic procedure, and so forth, to see a breakaway province, sort of illegally, against the U.N.'s wishes, sort of move in that direction. If we don't recognize (a unilateral declaration), then it becomes a problem with the Albanian majority, who has been pretty pro-American and would begin to see us in a very different light," he said."
http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-07-02-voa72.cfm

Since the EU have stated that they stand by only UN decisions and a vetoed resolution will be the outcome of Ahtisaari 1244 would still stand. Thus any Illegal US recognition will be acted alone and not with the EU;

"The vast majority of Europeans will not go along with a unilateral recognition of Kosovo," Luxembourg's foreign minister, Jean Asselborn, warned recently"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,491781,00.html
Thus the US are in a bit of a pickle do they act ILLEGALLY and by themselves while undermining the legitamacy for NATO troops prescence in Serbia's province???
Or,
upset the ethnic-Albanians (all 200 on the marches last week) with the reality that they could never deliver on what was not theirs to promise!

But then I recall the last time they helped so called "friends" in the 80's - the muhajedin - who are better known as the Taleban in recent years - I guess they need to be more weary of whom they consider "friends" and whom they really trust as "friends"!

The fact remains that such an ILLEGAL act by the US would require the withdrawal of NATO troops since they are legitamised by 1244 and the US would be breaking this contract - maybe this is what Polt hinted at;

"What if we were to tell you today that we were wrong and that Kosovo is yours, and that we are withdrawing our forces from Kosovo by Saturday. What then, the US ambassador asked on Tuesday, following a public speech delivered on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Marshall Plan, "
http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n115864

So the US are considering all the possible scenario's of "what if" to get out of this pickle (or as stated in February self made trap) and are even public with such statements. It is clear that they are in a pickle and it looks like this will be consigned to the "too difficult to deal with" pile(i.e. continuation of Status Quo) much like the other "frozen conflicts" - so much for uniqueness!!

Thus for now Staus Quo is back unless, of course, a new realism that talks and dialogue must continue to find a solution that is acceptable to all in Serbia!!!

So what is it to be real talks that are based on real principles of the terms "mediation" & "negotiation" or at best Status Quo???

All ethnic-Albaninans while considering Status Quo continuation realise that Status Quo for Pridnestrovie is now into it's 17th year and as such it is likely that continuation of Status Quo for Kosovo & Metohija would see another decade!!!

EU is following the footsteps of President Bush. A time will come when enough is enough and russia will be out of the game.

It looks like there was a agreement about the decision and deadline for that decision. We are not sure of the status yet but something is going to happen.

I would like to ask you all that oppose the Independence of Kosova, what do you foresee to happen if SC votes in favour, including Russia, of Kosova independence. I am sure that many of you have degrees in Int. Law etc. would come out with something constructive. Please do not propose WAR, ISOLATION but ways of cooperation and reconciliation.

I know what would happen in Kosova but cannot imagine what do you think that would happen in Serbia. C’mon Princip UK, Kate, Jovan

I have spoken to many Serbs. Most of them would not really care as they are really tired from dealing with the failures of the politicians in the past and of those that support them. Many of you are still supporting the failures as a result of which the Serbian people are suffering. Get out of the box be more pragmatic and don’t harm your own people for your personal interests. People in Serbia have so many problems and much poverty . They need fresh ideas to prosper not ideas that brought them into these crisis.

Ahmet - the EU is most certainly NOT following Bush!

Princip,

For someone who constantly advocates a win-win and a peaceful solution to the Kosova problem you are greatly mistaken in underestimating the resolve of the Kosova Albanians by stating “upset the ethnic-Albanians (all 200 on the marches last week)”

After reading your comment one can not help but wonder whether your true goal is to cause the Kosova Albanians to protest, riot and destroy anything and everything without any cause or justification. I am sure you would cherish the opportunity to label the Kosova Albanians as lawless people who know nothing better than to riot.

For reference on the resolve of the Kosova Albanians to achieve their goal of independence from Serbia please refer to the protests of 1981, 1990, 1997-8 and the war of 1999.

As in every democracy, not all people agree with the goals and objectives of Albin Kurti and his Vetvendosja movement. Some people consider his methods and requests to be unrealistic.

Albin Kurti demands full independence without granting so much rights and territorial autonomy to the Kosova Serbs, something which most Kosova Albanians do not agree with. We truly believe that the Serbs should and must rule themselves in the areas where they are a majority with substantial rights and autonomy in the areas of finance, budget, administration and security.

Furthermore, Albin Kurti as a person is seen by many people to be a Che Guevara want to-be, a person who lives in an imaginary world of endless and unjustified revolution.

I mean no disrespect to Mr. Kurti, after all he has been fighting for an independent Kosova since he was a student and I have nothing but the outmost respect for the principles which he stands for. However, I do not agree with some of his methods and his unjustified criticism of our elected representatives.

The Kosova Albanians now have a Government and a Parliament and the general feeling is that they would rather follow their elected representatives that some people who may pop up here and here. We struggled for decades to build out state institutions and we are not as foolish as you would like us to be to follow anyone that shouts “independence”.

Rest assured that if our President and Prime Minister got on TV and told us to get to the streets because that is the only way to ensure the formal recondition of Kosova, you would have 2 million people on the streets of Kosova within a few hours.

In the unlikely event that the Kosova issue drags on for an unreasonable period of time, then I believe it is our Government and our Parliament that should channel the dissatisfaction of the people of Kosova, rather than leave smaller groupings to channel such dissatisfaction.

Veton Surroi and some of the other members of the unity group have already stated that their principal responsibility is towards the people of Kosova and not the requests of the international community and I was particularly pleased to hear those statements.

The height of hypocracy - a statement by Agim Ceku ""Partition is out of the question," he told Reuters on Tuesday. "If you start redrawing borders in the Balkans, the big question is where you will stop."

Funny how this reluctance to redraw borders applies to the albanians and not to the lawful owners of Kosovo, Serbia.

Looks like my wish will come true and Kosovo will be partitioned - without presevo or bujanovac,etc being given to Kosovo, see link http://uk.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUKNOA33744020070703?pageNumber=4

Kate,

The EU said they FULLY SUPPORT the Ahtisari Plan but they WILL NOT follow the US lead to recodnize an unilateral recognition of independence is such independence is declared by Kosova without a UNSC resolution.

The US and EU dissagree on the method of gaining independence while independence itself is the favorite solution of both the US and the EU.

Anyone who thinks the EU and the US are going to work together on this issue need only look to Iraq. Seems there that the EU is enjoying sitting back and doing nothing while the US squirms in Baghdad.Notice here that as soon as the US mentioned unilateral recognition, the EU opposed this.The united front of the EU and US doesnt exist anymore.

If it isn't obvious now to the albanians that the EU will not follow the US lead, then it never will be. The EU have explicitly stated that they will only recognise Kosovo if the UN recognises Kosovo and that is never going to happen unless Russia does not use it's veto.

So, it's down to the US and Russia to determine Kosovo's future. The EU is out of the frame now. Judging by Primakov's comments it looks likely that a compromise will be sought whereby Kosovo will be partitioned (something i advocated all along) and the only issues will be where the border will be. Unfortunately for the Albanians Presevo and Bujanovac won't be included in those talks so their idea of a greater albania is slowly grinding to a halt.

Ahmet Isufi et al, stop boring everyone with the continued talk of serbian aggression, Kosovo independence as punishment of serbia, etc,etc. if you'd read the links in the previous comments i made (day two: bush-putin talks) you'd see the real reason for the carve up of former yugoslavia, so save your breath and bring some real discussion to the forum.

P.S i'm not surprised that the albanians and croats and their supportesr have not commented yet on the linked articles i talk about as no doubt it is highly embarassing to their cause and vision as the victims in the balkan wars. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

Nick in reply to;

"After reading your comment one can not help but wonder whether your true goal is to cause the Kosova Albanians to protest, riot and destroy anything and everything without any cause or justification. I am sure you would cherish the opportunity to label the Kosova Albanians as lawless people who know nothing better than to riot. "

On the contrary I believe the therats of violence are and were bluff by the US to speed things along so that this seemed as decision which "must be done now". The reality is as I said before

No Independence
No Unilateral declaration
No Illegal recognition
No Violence - that is what NATO are therefore.

Only those who want to force in haste and impose are the ones who suggest violence will come if the status is not decieded - but they have been saying this since 2005 - but then are we stating that the pre-eminant military organisation - NATO cannot function effectivly and is ineffectual? They have said they are ready and prepared so don't expect violence any day soon and expect any ILLEGAL nonsense to be immediatly revoked by the UN and the removal of all self-governing insitutions since this is mandated by 1244 and it will act as it should. Violence will be immediatly quelled by NATO so this is nothing bar a bluff!

This is the strongest signal the EU has sent to date that they are getting tired of Russia blocking the process. I actually think the EU is getting tired with Russia, but that's besides the point. And for the last time guys: we do not plan to create a Greater Albania. I guess that you are so obssesed with a Greater Serbia that you cannot conceive of other countries not wanting to be greater. For us it is enough to have an independent Kosovo and the freedom of movement between the two that was denied to us for so long. That's it.

I think this war criminal ceku has lost all of his credibility way back in croatia.

After what Bush said recently in Albania, he was never going to say anything different after this mini summit.

'Leaving it to the diplomats' is a diplomatic way of saying that things may have to change - but without having to admit a change of stance publically.

There is an acknowledged problem - and it is no good just saying 'it will have to be decided soon'.

There are fundamental problems that are not going to be resolved through giving independence - these include the illegality of the act given what was signed for in 1244, the very dangerous precedent that will be set, the likely split that will occur in Kosovo, the economic disadvantage it will bring to Kosovo, the resulting potential growth in nationalist tendancies in adjacent countries.

Serbia's case now quite strong - in addition to the legal argument, it now has a democratic EU looking government. It would be wrong for democratic Serbs to have to suffer yet another nationalist back-lash and potential anti-European feeling. It is easly for nationalists to correctly label the decision as a NATO conquest followed by western imposition - not the 'humanitarian' intervention it was purported to be. Serbia is moving on democratically, and the EU and the US have promises to keep because of that - that includes giving respect as given to any democratic country.

It would help Serbia's case if Mladic would give himself up. If he believes that Kosovo belongs to Serbia he should submit himself for trial immediately.

The KAlbanians do deserve a high degree of self governance - by cooperative agreement with Serbia and guaranteed by the international community.

The problem is that the international diplomats have gone down a different route, and they (like Bush) do not want to admit that there is a good and realistic alternative. The diplomats now need to be seen to have explored this alternative completely and openly. Until it has been explored they will not be seen to have done their job properly.

teni - if that's the case, why are you flying the Albanian flag?

Teni - well if the albanains are not trying to create a greater albania, but just want to have freedomm of movement, why then are they so determined to keep the serbian part of Kosovo if they aren't trying to grab land - i.e. a greater albania.

Since Putin didn't say NO, we are back to the "holy war" between Serbia and USA.

Nick wrote:
"The EU said they FULLY SUPPORT the Ahtisari Plan but they WILL NOT follow the US lead to recodnize an unilateral recognition of independence is such independence is declared by Kosova without a UNSC resolution."

This is the heart of the matter and where the money-line ends. Without that UN approval, the EU will not walk in step with the US. For once, I agree with Ceku when he finally acknowledged the Catch-22 he and his government were in, and this makes Russia's hand all the more powerful because all they have to do now is stall. Stall, so a UN resolution is killed, so the EU doesn't follow through, so Pristina is forced to do what it has been threatening to do, and finally force the US to show how commited they are to the whole deal as well. If the US doesn't recognize a unlateral declaration, Kosovo's sovereignty is null and void, but Washington loses the support of quite possibly the only remaining pro-American government in Europe.

It's funny how we all foresee the potential "nightmare" scenario, but all seem to still be careening towards it. The only way this can be resolved peacefully and diplomatically is through compromise, and if Ceku is worth his weight in rakija, he would realize the bind his government is in, and offer sweeping concessions to Serbia in order to get his independence goal met.

Kate!
"But everything has a deadline and if there is no solution, at one point, we will have to make a decision,” Gallach said.
Aren't theese words similar to Bush's, in his visit to Tirana.

For information, I'm posting a paragraph from the PBS link ( http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec07/putin_07-02.html) about the latest Bush/Putin meeting.

"On Kosovo, Putin is saying, "Serbia is opposed to making Kosovo independent. You cannot dismember an independent sovereign state like Serbia without its permission." Then he's saying, "Well, but maybe, maybe we can abstain from this vote, if it would be a precedent for the unrecognized states, two separatist enclaves in Georgia, which actually want to be part of Russia." Bush is saying, "No way. Kosovo is not a precedent."

My interpretation of this is that Russia, compared to US, has a much weaker stance / resolve, and it will probably obstain from the UN vote.

What is your interpretation of this?

it´s always the same old tune...

"you underestimate the albanian resolve.." yeah, ahum.
and in the same time they are writing, "I talked to many Serbs, they are not interested..."
are you writing this in order to feel yourself better, or what?

who do you think is gonna believe this naiv e try to decieve the readers here?

by now, I can identify most of the albanian writers here by reading their first two or three lines...it´s really interesting, they cannot write something really new, it´s always the same boring stuff: hidden threats and accusations...

"What is your interpretation of this?
(Luan, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 16:08) "
Simes is guessing what the 2 presidents might have said. Nothing more, nothing less.

And Kosovo was not even mentioned in the Bush-Putin joint statement -- now would you like to interpret that! Obviously there was no agreement unless they would have declared it to the whole world!

i say this again guys. APRIL became APRIL FOOLS DAY; MAY became MAYDAY; JUNE became DJUNT KNOW WHEN; now is JULY which became hey JOE-LAY down on Kosovo. as abdul said, ACES are spent. but its good to be optimistic in order not to inspire violence. giving hope and promises is a good diplomatic stuff.

Yes Jovan

'till now you never came up with something constructive. All you have done is harmed to your people that live in Kosova. They have listened to the messages similar to yours in this site, now they are tired since. I believe that Jovans like you is better if they do not identify themselves as Serbs.

Multi ethnic Kosova is moving ahead. Jovans,Princips, Kates stay away. We know best what suit us.

Kate you are reading too much in a flag. In the first place that is the flag of the Albanian people and not of the Republic of Albania. A lot of Albanians from Kosovo do look at Albania as their motherland, and I know that there are people in both Kosovo and Albania proper who dream of a union, but that is not realistic and most Albanians realise that. Suffice it to say that not a single Albanian political party has come out in favor of a union. Emotionally we might like the idea but if we stop to think about it it is simply not worth the trouble. Amongst Albanians in Albania proper where I come from there is even greater reluctance to join the two states in one then there is in Kosovo. And if we can travel and trade etc freely who needs a union anyway? As things stand at the moment it is almost as if we were the same country and that is good enough. Furthermore neither Albania nor Kosovo would be able to absorb each other and given that we both hope to become part of the EU we don't need to do that anyway.

To PB
I don't know what you mean by land grab but anyway: that was a Kosovar Albanian matter and we supported them just as you did in Bosnia and Croatia. We are the same people after all whether in Albania or Kosovo.
And you shouldn't make the mistake of underestimating the feelings of the Albanians about Kosovo. They are just as strong as those of the Serbs. The only difference is that we make up 90% of the population there. The reason why no Albanian will agree to a return to Serbian rule and the reason why all Albanians will do whatever is in their power to make Kosovo independent is because of our two people's history: the Albanians and the Serbs. You might have noticed that we haven't had a very friendly history. Just to make it clearer: Would you agree to become a part of the Ottoman Empire again? For us Serbia is the equivalent of what the Ottomans were for you. It's that simple.

Iowe,

You still didn’t interpret that paragraph. Surely you don’t think that all that transcript is just guessing – these experts actually speak to advisors of both Bush and Putin – give them a little more credit! Also, you don’t need to state the obvious, “Kosovo was not even mentioned in the Bush-Putin joint statement,” of course it was not, but you cannot believe it was not discussed, even if for a very short time. Iowe, can you pretend, for the sake of argument, that Putin did say that, and give us your understanding of it!?
Peace!

Ceku and company as well as many who post here play the game of International law when it suits them. Ceku and his compatriots are not willing to grant others what they want for themselves. You can see that in the posts above. At Ramboulet the Albanians signed and agreed that Kosovo is part of Serbia. Ceku attempted a Ramboulet style negotiation process recently and basically refused to negotiate hoping for the hammer from Bush.. Ceku refused to negotiate anything short of theft of Serbia’s territory however, Ceku’s hope for another Ramboulet ultimatum “sign or we will bomb you again” did not materialize from Bush.
Ramboulet to Albanian leadership was a means to an end they had no intention of observing it then or now even though they signed it. International law means nothing to Ceku and his compatriots.. It is clear that Ramboulet was a sham and a breach of International law of the highest order just like their recent negotiations were a sham. It is clear that Ceku and company will not abide by what they sign. European Union finally understands the Russian proverb “fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me”. So Mr. Ceku negotiate keeping in mind international law and what you have signed and give others what you want for yourself.

As an American I am very happy to see relations with the Russians accorded the highest priority.Look how great we have been cooperating with the space station as one example.Putin is a brilliant man and Bush understands that the long term security of the US is more dependant on cooperation with Russia than any single issue like the Kosovo question.If the EU is serious about peace in Europe what proposals do they have for Cyprus,Moldova/Transdniester,Bosnia/Republika Srpska among others?I say it is time to allow all 7 Cefta countries into the EU RIGHT NOW in order to give the people there a clear European existence sooner rather than later.Extremists must be dealt with forcefully but the majority of people are more interested in a better economic life.Kosovo would join the EU 20 years earlier as part of a Serbian confederation than as a self-declared state which the Europeans will never recognize without a UNSC Resolution which any even half rational person understands is not going to happen.

Teni - you didn't answer my specific question. Why do you albanians think you have a right to northern Kosovo which is Serbian dominated?

If it was truly a war about Serbian oppression of the Albanian population then i could understand the Albanian position, but when the Albanians want to take northern Kosovo as well, where the Serbs are in the majority, then there is only one conclusion to be drawn - a land grab, greater albania, whatever you want to call it.

Mike,

What sweeping concessions can be made to a government that brutalised it's own citizens. Kosova Parliament and it's people cannot and will not budge to the obstructionist pressure put forth by Russia and Serbia. Kosova is Albanian lands and there no concessions should be made. Serbs are minorities in these areas. They are welcome to live if they choose so. Kosova Serbs should get no much or less than what Serbia is offering to Preseva valley Albanians.

I was under impression that the government of Serbia had submitted a document with a proposed solution to the Kosovo issue to Moscow so Putin can discuss this document with Bush. So, I wonder whatever happened to this document? Is Kostunica going to announce what this document contained during the parliamentary session regarding Kosovo? Or is it that even the Russians have realized how much out of touch is the current prime minister and his government as to deem the document as unworthy of their time? Does anyone know anything about the fate of this document? Or the whole speculation about the document was a propaganda ploy by Kostunica to deceive his nation even more? How long Kostunica is going to mislead his nation and hold them to false claims and hopes? I am a bit curious to see what this fictional document contained ...

Gallack was very clear. Russia is acting like a stubborn irresponsible teenager. Europe will deal with Russia for a while and try to pacify it. In the end nobody can dream of letting Russia's will suceed. In the end the EU will do the responsible thing to do: proclaim Kosova's independence.

Olf..., Olf... don´t you have something really different to offer here?
I mean, you are just playing this whole game the 99th time ... either it´s how bad the Serbs are, or it is how bad the Albanians have been treated, or ...as a variation, how "the Serbs commenting here, are harming their own poeple in KosovO" ...

first, you should learn the correct name is Kosovo, with an "o", serbian genitive case ( " grammatically it´s the "genetivus possessivus")

so, it´s so terribly wrong writing or saying it with an "a" at the end...since it is a serbian term that has no meaning whatsoever in the albanian language...
but, since you are pretending to be some "scandinavian", calling yourself "Olf"... you certainly do not know that, right?

I will come to Kosovo, sooner rather than later...it´s only a question of time!

it is a shame that boys like you even dare to talk about "multi-ethnic Kosovo" since it is just you, the Albanians who are brutally cleansing all non-albanians away, by shooting on kids bathing in the river, burning down churches and desacrating christian graveyards... you should feel ashamed, indeed.

In case nobody has noticed. This is not 1999. Russia is stronger and the United States is weaker.

The United States is bogged down in an unwinnable war in Iraq, and their other war in Afghanistan isn't going very well. No matter what the Americans might want, they are no longer in a position to use military force to get their way in Kosovo.

Europe is directly dependant on Russia for energy, and the U.S. is indirectly depandant on the Russians for the same thing.

Putin is the one holding the cards. Energy is in short supply because of American actions in the Middle East. The Russians could wreck havoc on the Western economy if they wanted to.

Russia is opposed to Kosovo's independence for its own internal political reasons -- namely it does not want to be forced to recognize Russian secessionist movements in Moldova and Georgia. The U.S. and the EU don't have any carrot they can offer.


They're not going to get real independence, the best they can hope to accomplish is to turn Kosovo into a sort of European Kashmir.

The Americans and the E.U. have no intention to make Kosovo independent anyway. If the Ahtisaari plan were implemented Kosovo would be nothing more than a ward of the EU. "Supervised Independence" is an oxymoron. You may as well argue that East Germany was independent -- it's independence was just supervised by the Soviet Union.

Here is the bottom line:
Most of you serbs, will never realize until it will become a fact, the Independence! Serbs do not agree, neither we expect them to agree, it will take a long time, perhaps a generation of folks from out there, to really start changing their mentality educated by the Serbian Academia!
Serbs have always underestimated an Albanian. Not only Serbs, but the entire nations of the Balkans have been having more or less respect for Albanians. This is the underestimated Albanian who succeeded diplomatically to convince the world to bomb Belgrade. This is the Albanian who managed to drive all Serbian forces out of Kosovo. This is the Albanian who will attain every aspiration he has, sooner or later you will have to deal with the reality. The truth might be painful, but it's the truth you have to live with.
Kosovo will be independent. No doubt, there will be 2 Albanian states in the Balkans. The Albanian is the next most powerful individual you will deal in the next 50 years. The politics, the international law, the economy is going to place this Albanian, you hate so much, in the center of the Europe.

The Serb, my neighbor should start to understand how important is to build a good relationship with us. The serbian kids want to have a future as well. They want to be in the family of Europe, not see war and crime and be educated how to hate. It is the innocent child who needs help, that's the one you all need to work for. Forget Kosovo, that is a story way gone!

Peace and Respect

Dear editors of B92,

Please, don't change my comments unless there is something obscene or racial in them. Saying, "Preseva valley is an Albanian land," is no reason to cut it out of my comment. There is nothing more there than Serbs claiming land in Kosova, Bosnia, or Croatia.
I believe it's good to publish comments as they are and if they happen to be harsh on whichever side, that reality shouldn't be censored since it serves only one purpose, "Hiding the real sentiments from both sides of the argument".

“Here's the thing, when you're dealing with a world leader, you wonder whether or not he's telling the truth,” Bush told reporters Monday. “I've never had to worry about that with Vladimir Putin. Sometimes he says things I don't want to hear, but I know he's always telling me the truth.”
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070703-0807-bush-putin.html

- so the result of this non-summit is that Bush trusts Putins word and when Putin says a solution must be found between all in Serbia then I guess this is how we should interpret the way forward!

Looking forwad to the real talks that are about to begin with an actual mediator who understands the meaning of "negotiations".

Jovane - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! I really appreciate you validating the correct spelling of KosovO as I have in many of my posts. It would be nice if SOMEONE could recognize that although they are "writing" English, it's incorrect -

It's KosovO! Cestitam!

Destan Belaxhia
Its so obvious that there is NEVER going to be independence that its almost funny when you say otherwise.

By the way, they are now talking about having talks without haveing independence as the outcome. We all know thats just them buying time to remove Ceku and Thatci and replace them with someone willing to accept autonomy. Even France has proposed this.

Walter, I never heard that this was a Russian proverb "fool me once shame on you, full me twice shame on me".
Wow, I learned something today.
I thought plagiarism was not good to use.

"Iowe, can you pretend, for the sake of argument, that Putin did say that, and give us your understanding of it!?
Peace!
(Luan, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 17:16)"

I don't see your point in pretending that Putin did say something ..... I am more interested in what he (and Bush) actually said or, more importantly, agreed ..... and clearly there was no consensus between both of them on Kosovo ...... and I continue to question the credibility of those sources of that article. Seems nothing more than hearsay or wild guesses to me.

Luan,

I read that article too, and it made me laugh.

"Well, but maybe, maybe we can abstain from this vote, if it would be a precedent for the unrecognized states, two separatist enclaves in Georgia, which actually want to be part of Russia."

Dimitri Simes doesn’t seem to understand the situation at all. OK, he’s arguing that Russia might abstain because it would make it easier for them to absorb additional territory. However, if Russia wanted precedent to absorb those regions, they’d be far better off vetoing independence then if they abstained. If Kosovo unilaterally declares independence and the US recognizes them outside of the UN, then Russia has free rein to do the same wherever they choose. Might be North of the Ibar, might be in Georgia, might be both, who knows? If they abstain, then the precedent would be they have to get UNSC approval for any recognizing they wanna do. Hence, our good friend Dimitri doesn’t seem to have a very good grasp of what’s going on here.

“I would like to ask you all that oppose the Independence of Kosova, what do you foresee to happen if SC votes in favour… Please do not propose WAR, ISOLATION but ways of cooperation and reconciliation. (Olf, Tuesday, 3 July, 2007, 11:50)”

Olf, I think it depends a lot on how Kosovo handles the situation. I would like to see the Albanians treat our Churches with respect and encourage religious tourism to our Holy sites. I’d like to see a continued Serbian presence in our Holy areas. When Kosovo joins the EU then the situation might normalize. Hopefully more Serbs will move there and be free to live and work there. I know for sure I will teach my son the importance of Kosovo and what it meant to our family. If I can figure out how to buy some land in Kosovo, I will most certainly do so. Its probably a great time to buy property there. I think all of us here in Diaspora should at the very least purchase summer homes there. Its going to be a struggle to convince the Albanians there to view our cultural monuments as economic necessities rather then personal liabilities, but that will come in time.

Destan,

Well there are a number of problems I have with your reply, which I think contributes to the stalemate you and your fellow Albanians seem to find themselves in.

Your money quote: "Kosova Parliament and it's people cannot and will not budge to the obstructionist pressure put forth by Russia and Serbia."

Well, it increasingly seems like they will HAVE to budge if they want to achieve their primary goal of independence. Serbia, as still the rightful and legal owner of the land has every right to obstruct what it sees as separatism.

The question I pose to you and your comrades is what price are you willing to pay in order to see Kosovo independent? Unilateral declaration will bring you nothing. If Ceku unilaterally declares on Monday, I guarantee you Serb tanks will reach the northern banks of the Ibar on Tuesday, and they would have every right to do so. That, along with no EU state recognizing you, no international economic aid coming in, will make an outcome you really don't want, despite the viewpoints and spin your government at Koha Ditore is saying.

Your best bet is to realize that if your primary goal is independence, you will need to meet the price Serbia (pressured by Russia) will set. Claiming Kosovo is, was, and always will be yours, doesn't mean squat in international law, or international arbitration. The reality is that Serbia will not let Kosovo go without a heavy price. If independence means that much to you and your fellow Albanians, if that is the one thing you have been yearning over for years, let's see what you're willing to offer as compensation.

To Jovan!
How,I repeat How can You be so SURE that children killers at a river you mentioned in your comment Where,I repeat Where albanian? You saw them?
Until something is not verified everybody is suspect even you and me.
So stop fishing in dark water.

To Mr. GentFazliu:

"Not only Serbs, but the entire nations of the Balkans have been having more or less respect for Albanians."
Sorry, but it's not clear what you want to say: have we (the other nations of Balkans - e.g. we, Romanians) been respectful toward Albanians or not? And based on what you would assess this attitude, in such a general manner? For example, the fact that the Albanian anthem is a Romanian patriotic song (composed by the Romanian author Ciprian Porumbescu, 1853–1883) and it was kindly granted one century ago to Albanian patriots by their Romanian fellows, is this a proof of respect? Or the fact that the small Albanian minority of 477 (yes, four hundred seventy seven individuals, according to the 2002 census) living in Romania has one reserved seat in the Romanian Parliament?

To me, this statement sounds a little like paranoia, and at least offensive to those "nations of Balkans" among which also mine - the Romanian one - is to be counted.

Maybe it is the moment for Kosovo Albanians to cool down a little and to look around: no matter how this issue of Kosovo independence will end up, Kosovo Albanians will still live here, close to those "nations of Balkans" you may desconsider today, probably under the impression that Bush jr. goes to bed in the night and wakes-up in the morning with only Albanians interests in mind... Any of those "nations of Balkans" is as honourable as the Albanians of Kosovo are, and has as many assets and maybe even more than Kosovo! Do not make the mistake to believe that Kosovo&Albanians do not need friends since they have (for the moment) Americans as close friends etc. This final status solution will be not the end of the troubles, but only the beginning and you'll need all the friends one can get! So keep your dignity and stop implying that you, Kosovo Albanian, deserve anything and you can threaten, because the world is far too big and Kosovo is... what it is! I am looking at it right now, over the window!!!
Maybe for you, Kosovo is the belly-button of the world, that's fine, who cares about it? But do not overestimate yourself, showing lack of respect and gratitude!

As for this: "The politics, the international law, the economy is going to place this Albanian, you hate so much, in the center of the Europe"...
- well, very comendable and ambitious, don't forget to announce us when you'll do this and you'll have our sincere congratulations! Until then, maybe you would practice some respect for the other "nations of Balkans"?

PS: Kosovo is already partitioned de facto, North of Ibar. Albanians should get used with the idea, Serbia also, there will be no other borders changed (e.g. Macedonia), Albania will stay low just to keep EU support and a limbo situation like Cyprus will continue for years in Kosovo, with peacekeepers and so, until EU will absorb Kosovo because only Kosovo will still be outside! Of course, maybe the Albanian leadership in Pristina will make some miracles of public administration, hard to believe but not impossible. Good luck!

GentFazliu you need to practice what you preach. Like Ghandi who saw himself as both a Muslim and a Hindu you have to be both a Serb and an Albanian to understand that. Unfortunately I don’t see that in many posts including yours

LAZAR my research indicates that this phrase is of Russian origin but some say its origin is unknown. On the other hand I may be at fault since I am a loyal Star Trekker and like Chekhov on star Trek I believe that Scotch whisky was invented by a little old lady in Leningrad. The Garden of Eden was located just outside of Moscow and Cinderella was a Russian tale. But on the other hand You prefer it to be from Tennessee as Bush quotes it “fool me once shame on you if fooled can’t get fooled again”.