Slowly but surely, the ahtissari plan is dying as is independence for Kosovo. Feel free to denounce any politician who says otherwise and don't believe everything you read on American supported B92.
Wow, here is something new and totally out of the box from Cvele, lol. Cvele my friend, these kind of "compromises" have been thrown by Belgrade for years. Let's not go back in time.
There cannot be a compromise on Kosova's independence. Delic is trying to prepare his people for this to happen. I still think he needs to be more blunt.
- Serbia keeps Kosovo within her borders
- albans get Full autonomy for south Kosovo
- Both enter EU within a month of the agreement
- EU soldiers in Kosovo for the time being
If that is unacceptable then tough. Serbia is Kosovo and always will be.
Yes the reality starts to sink in by some Serbs: there is nothing they can do to stop the independence of Kosovo.
At this point if they would be smart they would start to improve the situation of the Hungarians in the Backa region of Vojvodina to avoid any escalation of conflicts.
Let go of KOSOVO, if we get Kosovo in 2 generations there will be more Albanians the us Serbians. Maybe try and get a bit of kosovo, but if probably Kosovo gets indepedence. Build your self a massvive wall with Kosovo and patrol that area very well make the exact thing like in Isreal with palastine. Don't let any Albanians in and watch who you let in the country.
I remember serbs commentators, princip and Kate, claiming how Indonesia wont support independence of Kosova.
The latest news is:
“Indonesia has suggested that Kosovo be treated the same way as other ex-Yugoslavian territories in terms of independence and European Union (EU) membership"
http://english.people.com.cn/200706/27/eng20070627_388067.html
Serbia is left only with russia on their side and I hope it stays like that because I for one wish for unilateral independence of Kosova. Then as Representative Tom Lantos said "I can assure you the following day [after independence is declared] the United States will recognize Kosova as an independent country, as will the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, and all the others"
"Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo."
- why should should it ever accept something that will never be??? The fact remains the US can huff and puff all it wants but is clear that this will never be sanctioned in the UN and as such lets get real and all need to accept the state they are in!!! I am sure you believe something will happen in July but I would not put money on it - China will be the UN SC president and guess what the Germans will hand over to protugal for the next 6 months as EU president - that's why even Joe Dioguradio implored it was a last chance - it's been and gone !!!!
As the rhetoric of Serb posters increases, it means that the solution is closer. If you're convinced that independence will not happen, you wouldn't be so emotional and hysteric. Let's remember, Milosevic gave in whan his rhetoric was at its highest.
Why do you think the United States and its allies are biased against Serbia?
The Unites States and its allies have simply come to understand that leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty will create more problems than the alternative version (Kosova Independence), and I truly believe that is the by far the most important reason why the US and allies have chosen to support independence for Kosova.
US policy is not conducted on an “I like you more than the other guy” level, but on a rather more complex level and taking into account the following realities:
Leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty risks alienating the Albanian population of Kosova and Macedonia to the point of total chaos or perhaps another war, which will take billions of dollars to control. Some may argue that the risk of another war is small, and I can’t say I disagree with some aspects of that argument as I am certain that even if abandoned completely the Kosova Albanians will try to solve this issue diplomatically for a “while”
What the US understands and what you simply don’t seem to get is that 100% of the Kosova Albanians, respectively about 95% of the people of Kosova are highly determined down to the very last person to separate from Serbia and if we have learned anything from history it is that you only force the people to do something for a “while” and that ultimately NO DISCRIMINATORY LAW, NO ARMY and NO DICTATOR can stop them from having their way.
You may and i know that you will argue about “international law”. We are all for respecting international law if that law is implemented indiscriminately. International law does not contain provisions on sovereignty but many many others on human rights which were violated by Serbia on every turn since 1989. If you were so keen in implementing international law then why didn’t you stop the violation of human rights in Kosova since 1989? You cant just chose one provision of international law that suits you without looking at the others.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people still think that there can be compromise on the issue of idependence.
Serbs politicans keep saying we are willing to compromise but not on independence, the very issue that the albanians are not willing to compormise.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution since albanians will never ever accept anything less than independence (thats a fact that will not change and some people here are choosing to ingnore), and Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo.
"He added that Serbia was prepared for a great number of compromises, but that it will not back down from maintaining its territorial integrity."
Well, isn't that the entire issue - Serbia wanting to kepp Kosova/o, while people living in the province want independence? What is wrong with the world - can people not read nowadays?
Here is how it boils down to;
Serbia = anything BUT independence for Kosova/o.
Kosova/o = nothing less than independence.
Where is the middle ground? If someone can see it (please leave your mythical history and other BS aside - try to come up with an original answer), I would be more than happy to hear it. I personally cannot see a middle ground, given where the two parties stand.
So the moral of the story is - welcome to last year.
Good day to all
PS: Kate,
Damage control is when something hit the fan, and you are trying to minimize losses and save whatever face is left. That would imply, in this context, that Serbia legally lost Kosova/o and is trying to save face and/or limit the damage (not exactly sure as to why). Could you please fill me in on that? I must be missing something you said.
Jeton - I actually used the phrase 'damage limitation' but if you want to say 'damage control' that's fine. To fill in the gaps for you: I meant in the sense of the damage caused by outside parties through their distortion of law and biased approach towards Serbia as a country. This blind black and white attitude from the US and some of its allies has created huge problems not just for Serbia but countries in the rest of Europe and beyond. I hope you understand now.
The fact remains that there is no Independence and it is clear that it will never happen in the UN and as such new talks will be begun in the next month when Putin tells Bush no go huff and puff but it is all in black and white in the UN Kosovo & Metohija is Serbian soverign territory!!!
Another year to celebrate Vidovdan in Kosovo & Metohija!!! Each and every year the celebrations will grow that is for sure as all refugees are returned from around the world back to the heartland!
Slowly but surely, more serb politicians are seeing the reality that Kosova will be independent.
I wonder how some serbs here think when they see their leaders one by one accepting the reality... accepting that Kosova is becomind independent and that Serbia can not stop it.
Never heard of damage limitation or crisis management? This is just an extended hand of cooperation, but it doesn't mean that Kosovo will become independent. They are basically saying anything BUT independence.
Serbia has a legitimate claim in maintaining territorial integrity. However, past strategy has been lacking creativity. My suggestion is for Serbia to use the international and Western organisations MUCH more to their own benefit, instead of resorting to the all too familiar martyr myth, anger, and sabotage that only benefits nationalists.
the US can either support the winning horse, economically growing Serbia, or stay bound to the losers...if they choose the loser´s option of unilateral steps... it would be in the interest of Serbia
after observing the last statements of several high EU-officials it wouldn´t be that bad if the k-albanians declared it unilaterally for numerous reasons, since that would let the EU be divided on the Kosovo-issue...
go on Albanians, just do it! it´s seems like it is becoming a loose-loose scenario for you.
the US can either support the winning horse, economically growing Serbia, or stay bound to the losers...if they choose the loser´s option of unilateral steps... it would be in the interest of Serbia
after observing the last statements of several high EU-officials it wouldn´t be that bad if the k-albanians declared it unilaterally for numerous reasons, since that would let the EU be divided on the Kosovo-issue...
go on Albanians, just do it! it´s seems like it is becoming a loose-loose scenario for you.
Serbia has a legitimate claim in maintaining territorial integrity. However, past strategy has been lacking creativity. My suggestion is for Serbia to use the international and Western organisations MUCH more to their own benefit, instead of resorting to the all too familiar martyr myth, anger, and sabotage that only benefits nationalists.
Slowly but surely, more serb politicians are seeing the reality that Kosova will be independent.
I wonder how some serbs here think when they see their leaders one by one accepting the reality... accepting that Kosova is becomind independent and that Serbia can not stop it.
Never heard of damage limitation or crisis management? This is just an extended hand of cooperation, but it doesn't mean that Kosovo will become independent. They are basically saying anything BUT independence.
"He added that Serbia was prepared for a great number of compromises, but that it will not back down from maintaining its territorial integrity."
Well, isn't that the entire issue - Serbia wanting to kepp Kosova/o, while people living in the province want independence? What is wrong with the world - can people not read nowadays?
Here is how it boils down to;
Serbia = anything BUT independence for Kosova/o.
Kosova/o = nothing less than independence.
Where is the middle ground? If someone can see it (please leave your mythical history and other BS aside - try to come up with an original answer), I would be more than happy to hear it. I personally cannot see a middle ground, given where the two parties stand.
So the moral of the story is - welcome to last year.
Good day to all
PS: Kate,
Damage control is when something hit the fan, and you are trying to minimize losses and save whatever face is left. That would imply, in this context, that Serbia legally lost Kosova/o and is trying to save face and/or limit the damage (not exactly sure as to why). Could you please fill me in on that? I must be missing something you said.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people still think that there can be compromise on the issue of idependence.
Serbs politicans keep saying we are willing to compromise but not on independence, the very issue that the albanians are not willing to compormise.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution since albanians will never ever accept anything less than independence (thats a fact that will not change and some people here are choosing to ingnore), and Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo.
The fact remains that there is no Independence and it is clear that it will never happen in the UN and as such new talks will be begun in the next month when Putin tells Bush no go huff and puff but it is all in black and white in the UN Kosovo & Metohija is Serbian soverign territory!!!
Another year to celebrate Vidovdan in Kosovo & Metohija!!! Each and every year the celebrations will grow that is for sure as all refugees are returned from around the world back to the heartland!
Jeton - I actually used the phrase 'damage limitation' but if you want to say 'damage control' that's fine. To fill in the gaps for you: I meant in the sense of the damage caused by outside parties through their distortion of law and biased approach towards Serbia as a country. This blind black and white attitude from the US and some of its allies has created huge problems not just for Serbia but countries in the rest of Europe and beyond. I hope you understand now.
As the rhetoric of Serb posters increases, it means that the solution is closer. If you're convinced that independence will not happen, you wouldn't be so emotional and hysteric. Let's remember, Milosevic gave in whan his rhetoric was at its highest.
"Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo."
- why should should it ever accept something that will never be??? The fact remains the US can huff and puff all it wants but is clear that this will never be sanctioned in the UN and as such lets get real and all need to accept the state they are in!!! I am sure you believe something will happen in July but I would not put money on it - China will be the UN SC president and guess what the Germans will hand over to protugal for the next 6 months as EU president - that's why even Joe Dioguradio implored it was a last chance - it's been and gone !!!!
Why do you think the United States and its allies are biased against Serbia?
The Unites States and its allies have simply come to understand that leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty will create more problems than the alternative version (Kosova Independence), and I truly believe that is the by far the most important reason why the US and allies have chosen to support independence for Kosova.
US policy is not conducted on an “I like you more than the other guy” level, but on a rather more complex level and taking into account the following realities:
Leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty risks alienating the Albanian population of Kosova and Macedonia to the point of total chaos or perhaps another war, which will take billions of dollars to control. Some may argue that the risk of another war is small, and I can’t say I disagree with some aspects of that argument as I am certain that even if abandoned completely the Kosova Albanians will try to solve this issue diplomatically for a “while”
What the US understands and what you simply don’t seem to get is that 100% of the Kosova Albanians, respectively about 95% of the people of Kosova are highly determined down to the very last person to separate from Serbia and if we have learned anything from history it is that you only force the people to do something for a “while” and that ultimately NO DISCRIMINATORY LAW, NO ARMY and NO DICTATOR can stop them from having their way.
You may and i know that you will argue about “international law”. We are all for respecting international law if that law is implemented indiscriminately. International law does not contain provisions on sovereignty but many many others on human rights which were violated by Serbia on every turn since 1989. If you were so keen in implementing international law then why didn’t you stop the violation of human rights in Kosova since 1989? You cant just chose one provision of international law that suits you without looking at the others.
Yes the reality starts to sink in by some Serbs: there is nothing they can do to stop the independence of Kosovo.
At this point if they would be smart they would start to improve the situation of the Hungarians in the Backa region of Vojvodina to avoid any escalation of conflicts.
I remember serbs commentators, princip and Kate, claiming how Indonesia wont support independence of Kosova.
The latest news is:
“Indonesia has suggested that Kosovo be treated the same way as other ex-Yugoslavian territories in terms of independence and European Union (EU) membership"
http://english.people.com.cn/200706/27/eng20070627_388067.html
Serbia is left only with russia on their side and I hope it stays like that because I for one wish for unilateral independence of Kosova. Then as Representative Tom Lantos said "I can assure you the following day [after independence is declared] the United States will recognize Kosova as an independent country, as will the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, and all the others"
Let go of KOSOVO, if we get Kosovo in 2 generations there will be more Albanians the us Serbians. Maybe try and get a bit of kosovo, but if probably Kosovo gets indepedence. Build your self a massvive wall with Kosovo and patrol that area very well make the exact thing like in Isreal with palastine. Don't let any Albanians in and watch who you let in the country.
- Serbia keeps Kosovo within her borders
- albans get Full autonomy for south Kosovo
- Both enter EU within a month of the agreement
- EU soldiers in Kosovo for the time being
If that is unacceptable then tough. Serbia is Kosovo and always will be.
Wow, here is something new and totally out of the box from Cvele, lol. Cvele my friend, these kind of "compromises" have been thrown by Belgrade for years. Let's not go back in time.
There cannot be a compromise on Kosova's independence. Delic is trying to prepare his people for this to happen. I still think he needs to be more blunt.
Slowly but surely, the ahtissari plan is dying as is independence for Kosovo. Feel free to denounce any politician who says otherwise and don't believe everything you read on American supported B92.
the US can either support the winning horse, economically growing Serbia, or stay bound to the losers...if they choose the loser´s option of unilateral steps... it would be in the interest of Serbia
after observing the last statements of several high EU-officials it wouldn´t be that bad if the k-albanians declared it unilaterally for numerous reasons, since that would let the EU be divided on the Kosovo-issue...
go on Albanians, just do it! it´s seems like it is becoming a loose-loose scenario for you.
Serbia has a legitimate claim in maintaining territorial integrity. However, past strategy has been lacking creativity. My suggestion is for Serbia to use the international and Western organisations MUCH more to their own benefit, instead of resorting to the all too familiar martyr myth, anger, and sabotage that only benefits nationalists.
Slowly but surely, more serb politicians are seeing the reality that Kosova will be independent.
I wonder how some serbs here think when they see their leaders one by one accepting the reality... accepting that Kosova is becomind independent and that Serbia can not stop it.
Never heard of damage limitation or crisis management? This is just an extended hand of cooperation, but it doesn't mean that Kosovo will become independent. They are basically saying anything BUT independence.
"He added that Serbia was prepared for a great number of compromises, but that it will not back down from maintaining its territorial integrity."
Well, isn't that the entire issue - Serbia wanting to kepp Kosova/o, while people living in the province want independence? What is wrong with the world - can people not read nowadays?
Here is how it boils down to;
Serbia = anything BUT independence for Kosova/o.
Kosova/o = nothing less than independence.
Where is the middle ground? If someone can see it (please leave your mythical history and other BS aside - try to come up with an original answer), I would be more than happy to hear it. I personally cannot see a middle ground, given where the two parties stand.
So the moral of the story is - welcome to last year.
Good day to all
PS: Kate,
Damage control is when something hit the fan, and you are trying to minimize losses and save whatever face is left. That would imply, in this context, that Serbia legally lost Kosova/o and is trying to save face and/or limit the damage (not exactly sure as to why). Could you please fill me in on that? I must be missing something you said.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people still think that there can be compromise on the issue of idependence.
Serbs politicans keep saying we are willing to compromise but not on independence, the very issue that the albanians are not willing to compormise.
There will never be a mutually accepted solution since albanians will never ever accept anything less than independence (thats a fact that will not change and some people here are choosing to ingnore), and Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo.
The fact remains that there is no Independence and it is clear that it will never happen in the UN and as such new talks will be begun in the next month when Putin tells Bush no go huff and puff but it is all in black and white in the UN Kosovo & Metohija is Serbian soverign territory!!!
Another year to celebrate Vidovdan in Kosovo & Metohija!!! Each and every year the celebrations will grow that is for sure as all refugees are returned from around the world back to the heartland!
Jeton - I actually used the phrase 'damage limitation' but if you want to say 'damage control' that's fine. To fill in the gaps for you: I meant in the sense of the damage caused by outside parties through their distortion of law and biased approach towards Serbia as a country. This blind black and white attitude from the US and some of its allies has created huge problems not just for Serbia but countries in the rest of Europe and beyond. I hope you understand now.
As the rhetoric of Serb posters increases, it means that the solution is closer. If you're convinced that independence will not happen, you wouldn't be so emotional and hysteric. Let's remember, Milosevic gave in whan his rhetoric was at its highest.
"Serbia will never accept independence of Kosovo."
- why should should it ever accept something that will never be??? The fact remains the US can huff and puff all it wants but is clear that this will never be sanctioned in the UN and as such lets get real and all need to accept the state they are in!!! I am sure you believe something will happen in July but I would not put money on it - China will be the UN SC president and guess what the Germans will hand over to protugal for the next 6 months as EU president - that's why even Joe Dioguradio implored it was a last chance - it's been and gone !!!!
Why do you think the United States and its allies are biased against Serbia?
The Unites States and its allies have simply come to understand that leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty will create more problems than the alternative version (Kosova Independence), and I truly believe that is the by far the most important reason why the US and allies have chosen to support independence for Kosova.
US policy is not conducted on an “I like you more than the other guy” level, but on a rather more complex level and taking into account the following realities:
Leaving Kosova under Serbian sovereignty risks alienating the Albanian population of Kosova and Macedonia to the point of total chaos or perhaps another war, which will take billions of dollars to control. Some may argue that the risk of another war is small, and I can’t say I disagree with some aspects of that argument as I am certain that even if abandoned completely the Kosova Albanians will try to solve this issue diplomatically for a “while”
What the US understands and what you simply don’t seem to get is that 100% of the Kosova Albanians, respectively about 95% of the people of Kosova are highly determined down to the very last person to separate from Serbia and if we have learned anything from history it is that you only force the people to do something for a “while” and that ultimately NO DISCRIMINATORY LAW, NO ARMY and NO DICTATOR can stop them from having their way.
You may and i know that you will argue about “international law”. We are all for respecting international law if that law is implemented indiscriminately. International law does not contain provisions on sovereignty but many many others on human rights which were violated by Serbia on every turn since 1989. If you were so keen in implementing international law then why didn’t you stop the violation of human rights in Kosova since 1989? You cant just chose one provision of international law that suits you without looking at the others.
Yes the reality starts to sink in by some Serbs: there is nothing they can do to stop the independence of Kosovo.
At this point if they would be smart they would start to improve the situation of the Hungarians in the Backa region of Vojvodina to avoid any escalation of conflicts.
I remember serbs commentators, princip and Kate, claiming how Indonesia wont support independence of Kosova.
The latest news is:
“Indonesia has suggested that Kosovo be treated the same way as other ex-Yugoslavian territories in terms of independence and European Union (EU) membership"
http://english.people.com.cn/200706/27/eng20070627_388067.html
Serbia is left only with russia on their side and I hope it stays like that because I for one wish for unilateral independence of Kosova. Then as Representative Tom Lantos said "I can assure you the following day [after independence is declared] the United States will recognize Kosova as an independent country, as will the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, and all the others"
Let go of KOSOVO, if we get Kosovo in 2 generations there will be more Albanians the us Serbians. Maybe try and get a bit of kosovo, but if probably Kosovo gets indepedence. Build your self a massvive wall with Kosovo and patrol that area very well make the exact thing like in Isreal with palastine. Don't let any Albanians in and watch who you let in the country.
- Serbia keeps Kosovo within her borders
- albans get Full autonomy for south Kosovo
- Both enter EU within a month of the agreement
- EU soldiers in Kosovo for the time being
If that is unacceptable then tough. Serbia is Kosovo and always will be.
Wow, here is something new and totally out of the box from Cvele, lol. Cvele my friend, these kind of "compromises" have been thrown by Belgrade for years. Let's not go back in time.
There cannot be a compromise on Kosova's independence. Delic is trying to prepare his people for this to happen. I still think he needs to be more blunt.
Slowly but surely, the ahtissari plan is dying as is independence for Kosovo. Feel free to denounce any politician who says otherwise and don't believe everything you read on American supported B92.
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