EU warns Kosovo against declaring independence

Bush can no more set a deadline for Kosovo independence than he can stop Muslims in Iraq from killing American soldiers.The EU is coming to the realization that without a UNSC resolution the status quo will have to suffice and anybody contemplating violence will see their cause condemned by world public opinion.If the US recognizes Kosovo independence it had better be prepared to pour in billions of dollars or allow 2 million to immigrate to America.I personally welcome people who want to come and contribute positively to American society but I wonder how many are of the Fort Dix type.

What a surprise. Eternal political limbo. If you want a better life. A suit, a car, a house, a job, a life, it is highly suggested that such irresponsible declarations should be left for central Africa.

Instead be with the Serbs and we will all benefit of being EU members. If you were to agree to autonomy we could all enter EU instantly. Just a though. Make a bridge of trust. We will work from our bank you from yours. Together we shall overcome.

How long can this standoff continue?

Both Serbia and Kosovo will loose greatly in a long term.

I only feel very sorry for the remaing Serbs in Kosovo inclaves. They will be the ones who at the end will have to face the angry Kosovars, that are loosing their patience on daily bases.

There can be only delay, no ather outcome then the independence will ever be on the table.

EU warned against what? The parliament of Kosovo is democratically elected and they have the mandate to bring Kosovo independence. No one should tell a democratically elected parliament with no nationalist parties a la Radical Party of Serbia what they should do. This is what democracy is about. Every one in Kosovo, except 5 % Serbs, yes also the non-Serbs minorities, support independence (Source:UNDP Early Warning Report).

Luciano, I personally welcome people who want to come and contribute positively but I wonder how many are of the Godfather type. (No, I don’t believe in this kind stereotypes just wanted to show that your comment was very inappropriate.)

To Nick,

Is this a threat to the 'poor Serbs' remaining in their homeland ?
What is going to happen ?
The K-Albanians loosing their peatience will make atrocities for the sake of independence.
Boys, your bigger problen is unemployment, but your leaders keep you hungry and poor so as to control you.
Don't you think to prececute these people because E.U. will not toretate such behaviour.
Did you guys ever lost your house and property? Who gives the right to others to take from people of what they have worked in their lives?

I give kudos to Albanians/Illyrians because they have not allowed religion to dilute their ethnic identity to the extent that the Slavs in the Balkans have.To an objective observer such as myself I cannot tell the difference between Slavs who are Catholic or Orthodox or Muslim based on the way they look or the way they talk or the way they act so it must obviously be a state of mind that makes them insist that their differences outweigh their commonalities.As an American I welcome immigrants from all countries but it is an undeniable fact that Western civilization is at war with Islamic intolerance.Let's not sugarcoat the fact that Islamicists are at war also with each other in Palestine,Iraq,Lebanon,Sudan just to name a few and it is foolhardy for the US to get involved in civil conflicts.

I dont think the Albanians of Kosovo really want war-that is what the terrorist KLA wants.

They simply want to get on with life and build a stronger future-and Serbia totally understands this, and will give maximum autonomy with respect to our borders.

Nick,
No worries... independence will come as soon as Serbia and Russia agree. Otherwise its highly unlikely no matter what albanians want. Simple, really.

To: Nick,

You constantly threaten the Serbs remaining in Kosovo with violence if Kosovo does not get their way with Independence! I am shocked that B92 allows your comments! What is your problem? Are you so foolish to think you can get away with what you did in 2004 again! Think again, the US, EU and world are just waiting for an excuse to dismiss the prospect of independence for Kosovo, since doing so will save their face. You just go ahead and do what you threaten and delver the excuse everyone needs to end your aspirations of Independence. I suspect you will do just that June 30th when you hold your protest.

Liked your comment Marios. I hope our Serb friends read it since they all they time keep repeating that Albanians should be either assimilated or deported out Kosovo, the country where they, their parents, grandparents etc are born and have lived.

"Who gives the right to others to take from people of what they have worked in their lives"

Good question. Some of the Serbs here believe the defeat of not only Serbs but also Albanians and other Balkan nations in 1389 by the Ottomans gives them the right to expel Albanians and those they don't like as they did in Toplica in the end of 19.century.

I don't like that when we are discussing different issues we forget that those who will have to live with decisions are ordinary people.

"Unilateral action or other irresponsible behavior in Kosovo would take away all the goodwill that you have received,"

Clearly we need a real compromise and partition has the best chance of achieving this. This is obvious from the support both Serbs and Albanians here on B92 have given the idea.

"veterans of the 1998-99 insurgency against Serb security forces have begun talking of renewed conflict."
Unfortunately this is the type of talk you will get with people like Ceku in charge, who is of course one of these "veterans". I personally think this type of talk is highly dangerous, and if Ceku thinks violence will help his cause, he is sorely mistaken. It is my hope that the Albanians here on B92 condemn the use of force as a solution. Clearly these "veterans" are dangerous criminals at this point. I hope the UN has a list of those pushing for renewed conflict and they can be picked up and quickly isolated if any violence occurs.
"No one should tell a democratically elected parliament with no nationalist parties a la Radical Party of Serbia what they should do.(Question Mark, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 18:58)"
Ummnn, yeah, Ceku sounds pretty darn radical and dangerous in his comment. I personally feel that no one from the leadership of the KLA should be allowed to participate in the government (I feel the same way about the radical Serb politicians who controlled paramilitary groups). However, it sounds like you would support independence for RS and Krajina if you take this stance on Kosovo.
Nick, I'm worried too, and I believe you are motivated by a desire for peace and are trying to warn us. I do not believe that you would pick up the gun and attack us or support those types of actions.
I know your concerns are focused on stability and investment, but even with independence that will be a mixed blessing. Just look at how the International Community dealt with Trepca. Capitalism isn't about creating jobs and a better life for the working class, its just economic warfare plain and simple. A war no one in the Balkans is capable of winning at this point. Your people are better off with UN money flowing in for now, and developing business around that sort of thing. The mineral wealth has already been privatized and the money sent to pay Milosevic's debts. There really isn't a lot of other investment possible that I'm aware of (with the exception of religious tourism of Serbs to our Holy sites). The International Community will focus on tourism in Albania before they take a serious look at anything in Kosovo.

Matthew, Serbs should not be afraid of Ceku since he is a very constructive politician. I know that Serbs have a very bad impression of him because the Serbian newspapers have made a lot of fabrication about him and his role in the Kosovo and Croatian war. Let me remind you that Ceku is educated in Belgrade and that he has never committed any war crime otherwise Carla Del Fiasco would have charged him so she could say to Serbian authorities "I am also charging with war crimes top Albanian officials". No, based on what I have heard of Ceku he is not a radical. He is very soft actually and I don't think he or anyone else of the Albanian politicians wants new conflict.

In case you did not know it, Serbian paramilitaries, at least one of them criminal from Central Serbia realised from prison for fighting in Kosovo, and at least on from Republika Srpska recruited by Serbian Radical Party, killed and burned in 1999 both Ceku's father and brother in the village of Qyshk, Peja.

Albanians have made so many compromises until know now it is Serbia’s turn to make compromises and say to Kosovo: “We apologise what we did against you during 20.Century but we hope we can put this behind and congratulations with independence”.

In case any of you is wondering: NO, I do not vote for Ceku or his party or any UCK-party.

Independence for Kosovo would spell disaster for the Balkans, Europe and ineed the rest of the world.
In 1999, Clinton illegaly bypassed congress, as well as the UN to hastily enter what he and his supporters often refer to as the first moral, or humanitarian war since WW2. However, this label is innacurate and laughable when properly examined.

First, this was a civil war, with a history of ethnic disputes btw. Serbs and Albanians dating back hundreds of years. The US entered the conflict with a blind eye to the history, choosing to only examine the 90's (and from only the Albanian point of view. We were told of genocide, ethnic cleansing and the suffering of Albanians. What we were not told is the number of civilian casualties was barely over 2,000 over a year long period, similar to the number of civilians killed by NATO bombs. We were also told that there were mass graves, concentration camps...etc. It has been proven by various investigations that the media was simply sensationalizing the stories that they weren't fabricating. What we found was that Milosevic was fighting a guerilla war with KLA terrorists who received funding, arms, training and enforcements from Osama Bin Laden while the US simultaneously removed them (KLA)from the FBI's top 10 terror group watchlist. Most Albanians killed in the war were soldiers in the KLA.

We were fed stories of a million refugees, but these stories fail to show that most of these refugees were fleeing during the NATO bombing, not before, and as a direct result of the threat of having NATO bombs aimed at civilian targets constantly. Not to mention those who feld as a result of the fighting btw. the KLA and the Serb army. NATO has admitted that during the first week of bombing, almost all military targets were hit, and they resorted to bombing bridges, factories, schools, hospitals, power plants and many other things that may have indirectly helped the Serb army, ignoring the humanitarian catastophe that this caused for the civilian Serb population.

The war that was supposedly preventing ethnic cleansing, has directly contributed to the most thorough ethnic cleansing since WW2. The Albanian population in Kosovo is higher than it was before the war, the Serb population is less than half of what it was, and under brutal Albanian attacks more Serbs are fleeing every day. With the declaration of an Independant Kosovo, almost all remaining Serbs will flee to Serbia, in the face of an oppressive population and government whose president is wanted for war crimes he commited against Serbs while serving in the KLA.

The role of UN peacekeepers has changed from protecting Albanians from Serbs to protecting Serbs (in isolated enclaves)from Albanians. Over 100 ancient Serb monasteries that not even the Turks dared to touch during their 500 yr. occupation of Serbia, have been attacked since 1999 by Albanians. The only time in post-Roman history that kosovo was part of an Albanian nation was when Hitler and Mussolini carved up the fascist puppet state of Albania during WW2, including Kosovo in the Albanian borders. After WW2, despite the population shift resulting from Axis intervention, the population of Kosovo was approximately 550,000 Albanians to 450,000 Serbs. Today it is around 1,600,000 Albanians and slightly over 200,000 Serbs. So who has been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo????

It is also a fact that over 70% of western european-bound heroin passes through Kosovo, under the noses of the UN. An independent kosovo will be a safe haven for criminals and drug lords, more than it already is. It will also create a bad precedent for other ethnic conflicts; that military force can be used to carve up new countries from the land of sovereign nations, contrary to international laws and resolutions.

And what argument could then be used to prevent other separatist regions from gaining independence around the world if Kosovo got it? Likely the old "well, the Albanians dealt with unique oppression and abuse so they deserve it more." This argument is weak, as the Albanians also enjoyed unique support from terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, and pursued violent means of gaining independence. The 99 Kosovo war was started on a military level only after the terrorist KLA began pouring into Kosovo from Albania with arms, terrorizing Serbs in a successful attempt to antagonize the Serb army into responding, which they did.
Milosevic sending troops in to fight the KLA is similar to if Mexicans had a rebel group with heavy weaponry and Al-Qaeda assistance attacking Americans in Texas and fighting to "liberate" Texas from the US. Bush, and Clinton for that matter, would respond with swift military action. Milosevic did the same, and was likened to Hitler for it.
What if in the Mexican scenario China bombed the US because our military response to a violent and direct threat to our borders or sovereignty was unjust? This would be just as ridiculous as the US interevention in Kosovo was.

canadien,

"Nick" is only one of many albanian posters here, who act like responsible individuals, but from time to time reveal their real face, and...it is a quite ugly one.
not only is he arguing with "historians" like Noel Malcolm, who, paid by the US-albanian lobby, openly claims things that are in complete contradiction with written history and archeological artifacts found and still being found in Kosovo.

don´t care about Nick or other hate-related posters here, as long as they are reduced to lies and accusations, you know that they have no clue...they are just desperate, that´s why the accuse every serbian comment to be "racism", even if not having any connection to racial issues.

The Balkans war is over. Serbia has not controlled Kosovo since 1999, so as far as they are concerned, Kosovo may as well be independent. Not a single Serb or Albanian life is worth less than an agreement between extremist politicians. Autonomy and independence are closely linked concepts. Full autonomy is independence, right? Kosovars deserve the economic security of independence. Serbia deserves the political security an agreement will bring. The EU provides a longer term answer; they should admit all remaining Balkans countries by 2012. With a separate independent republic of Kosovo, both Serbia and Kosovo politicians will need to solve economic problems: jobs, poverty, poor services, visas etc

Kosovo status talks: Serbia wins the second round

By Ferik F.-Balkan Update

Another round of International negotiation to determine the status of Kosovo has essentially ended, and Serbia won this round. Credit be given to whom it’s due, Serbia, who managed to postpone the independence of Kosovo, yet again, despite repeated promises by the E.U and the U.S that Kosovo would become independent this summer. Russia actually did the deed, but the fact that Serbia stood up to the E.U and U.S pressure is pretty amazing. Or another conclusion one could come to is that the E.U remains a spineless ‘superpower’ and does not dare challenge the rouge nation of Russia, while the U.S doesn’t really view the Independence of Kosovo as much of a big deal. Whichever conclusion you come to, either way, Serbia is the winner of this round.

As we all know, Kosovo was the winner of the first round when Ahtisaari recommended essential Independence a few months ago. This was not due to the skills of Kosovo leaders but a merely a recognition by Ahtisaari that Independence was the only realistic solution. But despite that, all Kosovo leaders were happy to claim credit. Some of them even promised Independence by May; while other insisted June was the correct month. Nobody really knows why on earth they would promise something they could not deliver, but it appears the U.S UNDERSECRETARY of State Chris Burns was the culprit. In numerous occasions he explicitly told Kosovo leaders that Kosovo would become independent by June. Long behold Mr. Burns is nowhere to be found now, while all Kosovo leaders are running for cover. They really look like the idiots they are. These people actually thought that Europe and U.S was going to deliver Independence on their plates, just like that. I have never seen such lack of leadership and gutlessness in my life.


Now, all it’s not done and Kosovo will probably become Independent this fall, but when it does, it will be despite of these leaders and not because of them. The third round of negotiation is critical in that it will determine whether Kosovo will actually become a real country or a banana republic. Serbia knows that it cannot really rule Kosovo again, but it will try to chop up the Ahtisaari plan as much as possible. Any further erosion of the Ahtisaari plan is a win for Serbia and a disaster for Kosovo. The question is whether the leaders of Kosovo have any guts in their stomach to say no to further compromises? I am convinced they don’t, but I hope I will be proven wrong. If EU tries to sweeten the deal for Serbia by watering down the Ahtisaari plan, it’s Kosovo’s turn to say no. After all Serbia did it (said no and nothing happen to her), why can’t Kosovo do the same?

They will not take matters into there own hands. They have been advised by the US and now the EU to include Britian not to fly off the handle. Everyone will keep there heads cool during the summer all it takes is a bunch of dummies like in 2004 to cause havoc but the response not what was expected from the Peacekeeping forces, arrest, curfew and people lost there lives for what? Nothing and set kosovo back another 4 years. Learn from the mistakes of past, March 2004 well organized display of how to cause troubles in a somewhat peaceful land did nothing for anyone. learn frome the past and do not allow some fools to provoke a response that will again set Kosovo back. I ask the people to remember 2004, not speaking to those who LIVE OUTSIDE OF KOSOVO but to the people who actually live there during that time. Would you want a repeat performance of Crackdown especially during the summer months when families are visiting from outside. Would you want to lock down at 6pm to 6am because of some fools YES I SAID IT FOOLS(AHMAK i don't know the serbian translation) who want to try and prove a point no i don't think so. No i am not racist either just trying to prove a point. Only a fool would take matters into there own hands. Would like to be isolated like the palestians in GAZA. They took matters into ther own hands and now the support base is running for cover and trying to make peace.

One thing everyone should understand. Two million kosovar Albanians can never live under the Serbian rule again.
The UN might decide to create some kind of Taiwan type state in Kosovo, but no UN, EU, or whoever else can make kosovars accept serbian rule.
The democratic countries are trying to find a solution based on this fundamental issue.

The readers and commentators should take very careful note of Nick's comments which have a running stream of threats of violence against Kosovar Serbs if Kosovo is not amputated from Serbia, and given independence. K-Albanians argument for independence is that if they don't get it, violence will erupt: this is called blackmail and extortion, and the world sees it for what it is. Milosevic is dead and Serbia is democratic, so are K-Albanian arguments for independence. There is no tyranny coming from Belgrade, only threats of violence from Pristina. But international law will prevail. When Pristina respects the UN Charter and international law, then reconsiliation can begin. The Kurds have an infinitely stronger argument for independence from Iraq and Turkey. When will Pristina support Turkey losing territory?

The problem is to be solved only in a very long term basis. The autonomous area of kosovo with more guaranteed investment pouring in the area would be a solution. As long as Kosovo remains a para-economy 8 person family basis and funds fying here and there uncontrolled by strong state institutions the real problem is not solved , it not even adressed. Military supervision by third parties only makes things worst. Albanians and Serbs need to align to more international institutions in their own governing styles. Serbian assecion to the EU is a good tool in this context with a good time frame for liberal investsment from the International community. an institutional hole in a naturally deprived area in the middle of the Balkans will not create wealth but an even larger para economy wich no European can accept in the Long term. So this realization will lead to the reassesment of the situation.

Mathew, you keep forgetting that half of deputies in serbian parlament belong to Sesel party(charged with war crimes and is being tried in Hague Tribunal). So stop talkin about Ceku , RAMBO and ZMIJA.

Mark, I would like you to name only 10 ancient orthodox moansteries in Kosova, and I will forget you number that you mentioned on your post(over 100 ancient monasteries). I can give you a head start with deqani Monastery, please name another 9 for me if you can. I dare you and any serb or international historian and/or politicions. I am waiting for an honest to god anwer.

“Mathew, you keep forgetting that half of deputies in serbian parlament belong to Sesel party (Ahmet Isufi, Friday, 22 June, 2007, 10:19)”

Ahmet, I suggest you actually read my comments rather then dismiss them out of hand, of course I mentioned radical Serb politicians as well.

“I personally feel that no one from the leadership of the KLA should be allowed to participate in the government (I feel the same way about the radical Serb politicians who controlled paramilitary groups).”

“Matthew, Serbs should not be afraid of Ceku since he is a very constructive politician. (Question Mark, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 21:12)”

Trust me I don’t get my information from Serbian newspapers and I am strongly moderate. Ceku simply scares me, and many other Serbs, bad things always happen to us when he’s around, now he’s talking about people who were under his command getting ready to fight again, and yeah that scares me greatly. If he’s not guilty, he has a lot of work to do to convince moderates like myself that he’s a positive factor in the region, instead he chooses to talk about possible violence. If you want Serbs to feel safe in Kosovo, don’t elect KLA members, its as simple as that.

To James


Remember here you have a nation that has been humiliated, masacred, house burned etc. etc and you are suggesting thay should forget everything. It only happened few years ago. It takes a good generation or two for these two nations to able to try and live together.
And not every albanian has spent 18 years in UK to become a moderate like myself.

"One thing everyone should understand. Two million kosovar Albanians can never live under the Serbian rule again. "

Nick, there´s obviously something YOU simply refuse to understand: it´s not about "ruling" the K-albanians, they will rule themselves. but there is no such thing like independence, no changing of borders.

RE: 29 Serbian Orthodox Churches damaged and or burned in 2004, total Serbian Orthodox Churches and Religious gravesites desecrated by the KLA and Albanian extremists is well over 100.


St. Cyril and Methodius Prizren Seminary 19th c. burned, destroyed UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire
Bishop's residence Prizren Residence burned, dynamited UNMIK/KFOR Report -

March 18: Archbishop seat, Archangel Monastery, an Orthodox Church and Orthodox Seminary set on fire & destroyed
Christ the Savior Prizren Church 1330 burned UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

Holy Archangels Prizren Monastery 1343-1352 burned UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

Holy Virgin of Ljevis Prizren Church 9-11th c./ 1306 / frescoes from 12th c. burned inside UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. George Prizren Church 16th c. burned inside Runjevac church; UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. Nicholas Prizren Church 1331 burned Tutic's church; UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. George Cathedral Prizren Church 1856 burned, desecrated and mined UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire.

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

St. Panteleimon Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

Sts. Cosmas and Damian (Unmercenary Physicians) Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Prizren, Zivinjane Church mined UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 19 - Explosion completely destroys old Orthodox Church near Zivinjane village)

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Orahovac, Brnjaca Church 1852 burned, destroyed (UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 18 - Orthodox Church set on fire & destroyed in Brnjaca village)

Holy Virgin Djakovica Church 16-19th c burned, razed to the ground

Holy Trinity Cathedral Djakovica Church mined, debris removed UNMIK/KFOR Report March 18 - Rioters remove debris of destroyed Orthodox Church with trucks & trailers Approx 5,000 K-Albanians participate.

St. Lazarus Djakovica, Piskote Church destroyed, only floor remains The church which was was only looted now is completely destroyed with only its floor remaining. Several tombs were opened and the bones of the deceased scattered.

St. Elias Djakovica, Bistrazin Church completely destroyed Church was vandalized inside in 1999 but stood intact until March 17-19, when it was mined and blown up.

Devic (St. Ioanichius) Srbica Monastery 15th c. burned to ground Tomb of St. Ioanichius of Devic opened and desecrated. Fire was burned in the tomb of the Saint.

St. John the Baptist Pec Church burned
Most Holy Mother of God Pec, Belo Polje Church burned, desecrated inside

St. John the Baptist Pec, Pecka Banja Church burned

St. Uros the Emperor Urosevac Church 14th c. hand granades, burned UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 17 - 3 hand grenades thrown at Serbian Orthodox church - church set on fire, at least 19 KFOR soldiers and policemen wounded defending the church, destroyed city cemetery;

UNMIK/KFOR Report March 18 - 1,500 K-Albanians rampage - burn Orthodox Church & up to 5 K-Serb houses in townK-Albanian crowd attempts to set Orthodox Church on fire in K-Serb village of Talinovce Church was set to fire - 5 K-Albanian males arrested

St. Eliah Urosevac, Nekodim Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery

St. Peter and Paul Urosevac, Talinovac Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery
Most Holy Mother of God Urosevac, Sovtovic Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery

Donja Slapasnica Kamenica, Donja Slapasnica Church stoned Under investigation
St. Archangel Michael Stimlje Church 1920 burned

St. Nicholas Pristina Church 19th c burned UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 18 - Rioters attack Old Orthodox Church in Taslixhe - the church burned to the ground with the parish home and all church archives

St. Nicholas Kosovo Polje Church 1940 burned inside, desecrated

St. Katherine Kosovo Polje, Bresje Church 19th c. vandalized inside

St. Eliah Vucitrn Church 19th c. burned
Church in Poluzje Vucitrn, Poluzje Church burned

St. Archangel Michael Obilic Church new burned inside

St. Sava Kosovska Mitrovica South Church burned twice UNMIK/KFOR Report - March 18: Molotov cocktails thrown into perimeter of KFOR-guarded Orthodox Church in South Mitrovica. Church & several neighboring houses set on fire.

St. Elian Podujevo Church 1929 destroyed UNMIK/KFOR Report - March 18 Orthodox Church set on fire. Czech officer confirmed that coffins were dug up and bones of dead scattered.

St. Peter and Paul Istok Church explosions
Church in Baja Istok, Baja Church explosions
Church in Vitina Vitina Church granades, burned (according to UNMIK/KFOR Report: 4 K-Serbian houses set on fire & Orthodox Church badly damaged)
Decani Monastery 1327-1335 attacked by mortar Monastery was attacked by 6 mortar grenades on March 17, around 22.00. No damage was made to the holy site (confirmed by KFOR and monks of the monastery)

Ahmet, I applaud you for your sincere desire for the facts. The following list is merely a 'few' of the 110 plus documented cases of Albanian attacks on historic Serbian Orthodox churches and holy sites in Kosovo since 1999;

1. The Medieval Holy Trinity Monastery (the church was frescoed) near Musutiste (Suva Reka), 14th century, plundered, set on fire and completely destroyed by explosives.

2. The Medieval church of Dormition of the Mother of God, (painted in frescoes), built in 1315, in Musutiste, burned and afterwards torn down.

3. The Medieval St. Mark's Monastery, near Korisa, Prizren, built in 1467, looted, set on fire and totally destroyed by explosives.

4. The Medieval Monastery of St. Archangel Gabriel (with frescoes) in Binac village, near Vitina, 14th century, looted and burned.

5. The Medieval Monastery of St. Joannicius of Devic (painted in frescoes), near Srbica, 15th century, demolished and robbed.

6. The Monastery of Dormition - St. Uros (14th century, reconstructed in 1996), Gornja Nerodimlja, blown up with a mine and torn down.

7. The Monastery of St. Archangel (14th century, frescoed, reconstructed in 17th century), Gornja Nerodimlja, set on fire and blown up with a mine, the graveyard has been destroyed, the pine dating from 14th century has been cut down and burned.

8. St. Nicola's church (old church, reconstructed in 1983), Donje Nerodimlje, demolished, set on fire, and blown up with a mine.

9. St. Stephen's church (14th century, reconstructed in 1996), Donje Nerodimlje, situated at the graveyard, demolished, set on fire and blown up with a mine.

10. The Presentation of the Virgin church in Dolac, near Klina, built in 1620, (with frescoes), burned, the Holy Throne demolished, afterwards mined and demolished by explosives.

11. St. Nicola s church in Slovinje village near Lipljan, founded in the 16th century, reconstructed in the 19th century, utterly destroyed by explosives.

27. The church of St. Elijah the Prophet in Bistrazin, between Prizren and Djakovica, reconstructed on the old foundations before 1941, during World War II ruined by Albanian fascists, afterwards reconstructed for the second time in 1988, now completely demolished.

32. The Monastery of Sts. Cosma and Damian, the Unmercenary Healers, in Zociste (with frescoes), from the 14th century, looted and demolished, the greatest part of the residential building burned.

34. St. Nicola s church in Kijevo, near Klina, built in the 14th century (painted in frescoes), leveled to the ground, crosses and tombs in the graveyard ruined.

36. St. Nicolas church in Ljubizda, near Prizren, from the 16th century, plundered and demolished; the parish center was set on fire.

37. In the same village, Ljubizda, the church of St. Elijah, the Prophet (16th - 17th century), situated at the graveyard, reconstructed on the old foundations, looted, demolished, its interior set on fire, mined, the graveyard around it destroyed.

54. The Church of St. Petka was an old, restored sanctuary in the vicinity of the Serb village of Klokot. Mentioned in writings from 1381. The church interior was burned and on 27 July 1999 it was blown up.

57. The 14th century Church of St. George, in Rudnik was restored in the 16th century. Frescoes date from the same period. The church was destroyed by explosives.

55. The Church of St. Lazarus near the river Belicnica in the village of Belica. Built in the 14th century. Was a single-nave and vaulted church with the remains of the narthex in its front. Around the church are the old and the new cemeteries. The church was robbed and burned.

64. The Church of St. Nicholas in Prizren bequeathed by King Dusan to the Monastery of St Archangel in 1348. The church was in service until 1795 when Mahmud-pasha Busatlija looted it. Restored in 1857. The church treasured icons dating back as far as the mid-14th century. It was mined with twenty explosive devices. Five went off. Considerable damage.

Jovan,
This is probably something I will never understand. If we can rule Kosovo and Serbia practically has NO SAY over Kosovo, then why all this fuss about borders. Very soon all of your integrity borders will be dissolved into the United States of Europe anyway, so why bother.

Whoever is using the alias "Nick" in these forums could you please find another name :) i'v been using it for a while...

thanks.

B92

Please allow me to post this comment on all the relevant articles for clarification.

----

Hello everybody,

Someone has used my name "Nick" in the following article on the 22 of June:

"EU warns Kosovo against declaring independence"

I would just like to clarify that this is not me (the usual Nick that posts here) but a new poster.

I would also like to ask this new poster if he could please change his name so as not to create unnecesary confusion.

How come most of the so called "serb curches" mentioned here are built during the turkish occupation (14-19 century)? Serbs cry all the time saying that they have suffered a lot under the turkish rule. That they faith have been banned and other lies like this. The truth dear readers, hurts: Serbs havent suffered at all but have collaborated with turks. Isnt it the case that Serbs accepted turkish occupation after only 1 (one) battle, meanwhile albanians resisted for at least 30 years and granted for that resistence with a harsh treatment by turks, mass conversion and destruction of all their old religion records?

Ilir, I can see how reading such an extensive (though not nearly complete) list of religious sites your people destroyed can hurt, and as you say, the truth hurts even for Albanians.

In regards to your comments, I will begin by asking you to explain how a church built in the 14th century (1300's) was built under Ottoman occupation, which only included Kosovo by 1459 under Mehmed 2. This means that despite the battle of Kosovo taking place in 1389, the Ottomans were not occupiers of Serbia until the 15th century. A great deal of the religous sites attacked by Albanians are from the 14th century and older. Also, the Ottomans used a millet system which allowed 'infidels' or non-muslims to keep their religion and continue building churches, etc. ( Christianity), but these non-Muslims were subjects called raya (ie. cattle) and they had to pay much higher taxes than Muslims. However, the Ottomans, as brutal as they were, had some level of respect for the religious beliefs of their subjects, enough respect not to simply destroy their churches and holy sites because they were non-Muslim or non-Turk.

And in regards to your comments on Albanians in the Ottoman Empire; after being conquered by Turks less than 20 years after the Serbs were (1478), the majority of Albanians converted to Islam, and thus received preferential treatment in comparison to their fellow Greek, Serb and Bulgar Christians. In fact, this is why most Albanians didn't want to leave the Ottoman empire towards the end of their reign, while the Christian subjects (Greek, Serb, Bulgar..) all fought fiercly for independence.

It is well noted by global historians that Serbs represented the strongest source of resistance in the Ottoman Empire in Europe, which is why Austrians and Hungarians invited Serbs north to form a resistance on the borders btw. the empires.

Albanians, on the other hand, while they did resist Ottomans in isolated pockets following occupation, did not represent anywhere near the determination to be free that the Serbs did. And the Albanians were not forced to convert, neither were Bosnians. The Ottomans clearly allowed you to retain your religion after being conquered (Serbs/Greeks...) but treated you like a 2nd class citizen, and Albanians wanted better treatment so they converted.

And in the end, does it even matter if these ancient monasteries were built under the watch of the Turks or not? Does it make them less historic or old? No, actually you are trying to divert attention from the real issue; Albanian aggression towards Serbian historical sites. There is no justification for this, and UNESCO has expressed sincere concerns. The world is finally seeing through the fog of propaganda and realizing the dangers of granting Kosovo independence to people like you, who have no regrets about destroying historic religious sites and killing Serbs. In your eyes, Serbs = evil so anything bad you do to them or their culture is justified. There is no justification for such behavior, and defending it speaks volumes about your character.

Bush can no more set a deadline for Kosovo independence than he can stop Muslims in Iraq from killing American soldiers.The EU is coming to the realization that without a UNSC resolution the status quo will have to suffice and anybody contemplating violence will see their cause condemned by world public opinion.If the US recognizes Kosovo independence it had better be prepared to pour in billions of dollars or allow 2 million to immigrate to America.I personally welcome people who want to come and contribute positively to American society but I wonder how many are of the Fort Dix type.

What a surprise. Eternal political limbo. If you want a better life. A suit, a car, a house, a job, a life, it is highly suggested that such irresponsible declarations should be left for central Africa.

Instead be with the Serbs and we will all benefit of being EU members. If you were to agree to autonomy we could all enter EU instantly. Just a though. Make a bridge of trust. We will work from our bank you from yours. Together we shall overcome.

How long can this standoff continue?

Both Serbia and Kosovo will loose greatly in a long term.

I only feel very sorry for the remaing Serbs in Kosovo inclaves. They will be the ones who at the end will have to face the angry Kosovars, that are loosing their patience on daily bases.

There can be only delay, no ather outcome then the independence will ever be on the table.

EU warned against what? The parliament of Kosovo is democratically elected and they have the mandate to bring Kosovo independence. No one should tell a democratically elected parliament with no nationalist parties a la Radical Party of Serbia what they should do. This is what democracy is about. Every one in Kosovo, except 5 % Serbs, yes also the non-Serbs minorities, support independence (Source:UNDP Early Warning Report).

Luciano, I personally welcome people who want to come and contribute positively but I wonder how many are of the Godfather type. (No, I don’t believe in this kind stereotypes just wanted to show that your comment was very inappropriate.)

To Nick,

Is this a threat to the 'poor Serbs' remaining in their homeland ?
What is going to happen ?
The K-Albanians loosing their peatience will make atrocities for the sake of independence.
Boys, your bigger problen is unemployment, but your leaders keep you hungry and poor so as to control you.
Don't you think to prececute these people because E.U. will not toretate such behaviour.
Did you guys ever lost your house and property? Who gives the right to others to take from people of what they have worked in their lives?

I give kudos to Albanians/Illyrians because they have not allowed religion to dilute their ethnic identity to the extent that the Slavs in the Balkans have.To an objective observer such as myself I cannot tell the difference between Slavs who are Catholic or Orthodox or Muslim based on the way they look or the way they talk or the way they act so it must obviously be a state of mind that makes them insist that their differences outweigh their commonalities.As an American I welcome immigrants from all countries but it is an undeniable fact that Western civilization is at war with Islamic intolerance.Let's not sugarcoat the fact that Islamicists are at war also with each other in Palestine,Iraq,Lebanon,Sudan just to name a few and it is foolhardy for the US to get involved in civil conflicts.

I dont think the Albanians of Kosovo really want war-that is what the terrorist KLA wants.

They simply want to get on with life and build a stronger future-and Serbia totally understands this, and will give maximum autonomy with respect to our borders.

Nick,
No worries... independence will come as soon as Serbia and Russia agree. Otherwise its highly unlikely no matter what albanians want. Simple, really.

To: Nick,

You constantly threaten the Serbs remaining in Kosovo with violence if Kosovo does not get their way with Independence! I am shocked that B92 allows your comments! What is your problem? Are you so foolish to think you can get away with what you did in 2004 again! Think again, the US, EU and world are just waiting for an excuse to dismiss the prospect of independence for Kosovo, since doing so will save their face. You just go ahead and do what you threaten and delver the excuse everyone needs to end your aspirations of Independence. I suspect you will do just that June 30th when you hold your protest.

Liked your comment Marios. I hope our Serb friends read it since they all they time keep repeating that Albanians should be either assimilated or deported out Kosovo, the country where they, their parents, grandparents etc are born and have lived.

"Who gives the right to others to take from people of what they have worked in their lives"

Good question. Some of the Serbs here believe the defeat of not only Serbs but also Albanians and other Balkan nations in 1389 by the Ottomans gives them the right to expel Albanians and those they don't like as they did in Toplica in the end of 19.century.

I don't like that when we are discussing different issues we forget that those who will have to live with decisions are ordinary people.

"Unilateral action or other irresponsible behavior in Kosovo would take away all the goodwill that you have received,"

Clearly we need a real compromise and partition has the best chance of achieving this. This is obvious from the support both Serbs and Albanians here on B92 have given the idea.

"veterans of the 1998-99 insurgency against Serb security forces have begun talking of renewed conflict."
Unfortunately this is the type of talk you will get with people like Ceku in charge, who is of course one of these "veterans". I personally think this type of talk is highly dangerous, and if Ceku thinks violence will help his cause, he is sorely mistaken. It is my hope that the Albanians here on B92 condemn the use of force as a solution. Clearly these "veterans" are dangerous criminals at this point. I hope the UN has a list of those pushing for renewed conflict and they can be picked up and quickly isolated if any violence occurs.
"No one should tell a democratically elected parliament with no nationalist parties a la Radical Party of Serbia what they should do.(Question Mark, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 18:58)"
Ummnn, yeah, Ceku sounds pretty darn radical and dangerous in his comment. I personally feel that no one from the leadership of the KLA should be allowed to participate in the government (I feel the same way about the radical Serb politicians who controlled paramilitary groups). However, it sounds like you would support independence for RS and Krajina if you take this stance on Kosovo.
Nick, I'm worried too, and I believe you are motivated by a desire for peace and are trying to warn us. I do not believe that you would pick up the gun and attack us or support those types of actions.
I know your concerns are focused on stability and investment, but even with independence that will be a mixed blessing. Just look at how the International Community dealt with Trepca. Capitalism isn't about creating jobs and a better life for the working class, its just economic warfare plain and simple. A war no one in the Balkans is capable of winning at this point. Your people are better off with UN money flowing in for now, and developing business around that sort of thing. The mineral wealth has already been privatized and the money sent to pay Milosevic's debts. There really isn't a lot of other investment possible that I'm aware of (with the exception of religious tourism of Serbs to our Holy sites). The International Community will focus on tourism in Albania before they take a serious look at anything in Kosovo.

Matthew, Serbs should not be afraid of Ceku since he is a very constructive politician. I know that Serbs have a very bad impression of him because the Serbian newspapers have made a lot of fabrication about him and his role in the Kosovo and Croatian war. Let me remind you that Ceku is educated in Belgrade and that he has never committed any war crime otherwise Carla Del Fiasco would have charged him so she could say to Serbian authorities "I am also charging with war crimes top Albanian officials". No, based on what I have heard of Ceku he is not a radical. He is very soft actually and I don't think he or anyone else of the Albanian politicians wants new conflict.

In case you did not know it, Serbian paramilitaries, at least one of them criminal from Central Serbia realised from prison for fighting in Kosovo, and at least on from Republika Srpska recruited by Serbian Radical Party, killed and burned in 1999 both Ceku's father and brother in the village of Qyshk, Peja.

Albanians have made so many compromises until know now it is Serbia’s turn to make compromises and say to Kosovo: “We apologise what we did against you during 20.Century but we hope we can put this behind and congratulations with independence”.

In case any of you is wondering: NO, I do not vote for Ceku or his party or any UCK-party.

Independence for Kosovo would spell disaster for the Balkans, Europe and ineed the rest of the world.
In 1999, Clinton illegaly bypassed congress, as well as the UN to hastily enter what he and his supporters often refer to as the first moral, or humanitarian war since WW2. However, this label is innacurate and laughable when properly examined.

First, this was a civil war, with a history of ethnic disputes btw. Serbs and Albanians dating back hundreds of years. The US entered the conflict with a blind eye to the history, choosing to only examine the 90's (and from only the Albanian point of view. We were told of genocide, ethnic cleansing and the suffering of Albanians. What we were not told is the number of civilian casualties was barely over 2,000 over a year long period, similar to the number of civilians killed by NATO bombs. We were also told that there were mass graves, concentration camps...etc. It has been proven by various investigations that the media was simply sensationalizing the stories that they weren't fabricating. What we found was that Milosevic was fighting a guerilla war with KLA terrorists who received funding, arms, training and enforcements from Osama Bin Laden while the US simultaneously removed them (KLA)from the FBI's top 10 terror group watchlist. Most Albanians killed in the war were soldiers in the KLA.

We were fed stories of a million refugees, but these stories fail to show that most of these refugees were fleeing during the NATO bombing, not before, and as a direct result of the threat of having NATO bombs aimed at civilian targets constantly. Not to mention those who feld as a result of the fighting btw. the KLA and the Serb army. NATO has admitted that during the first week of bombing, almost all military targets were hit, and they resorted to bombing bridges, factories, schools, hospitals, power plants and many other things that may have indirectly helped the Serb army, ignoring the humanitarian catastophe that this caused for the civilian Serb population.

The war that was supposedly preventing ethnic cleansing, has directly contributed to the most thorough ethnic cleansing since WW2. The Albanian population in Kosovo is higher than it was before the war, the Serb population is less than half of what it was, and under brutal Albanian attacks more Serbs are fleeing every day. With the declaration of an Independant Kosovo, almost all remaining Serbs will flee to Serbia, in the face of an oppressive population and government whose president is wanted for war crimes he commited against Serbs while serving in the KLA.

The role of UN peacekeepers has changed from protecting Albanians from Serbs to protecting Serbs (in isolated enclaves)from Albanians. Over 100 ancient Serb monasteries that not even the Turks dared to touch during their 500 yr. occupation of Serbia, have been attacked since 1999 by Albanians. The only time in post-Roman history that kosovo was part of an Albanian nation was when Hitler and Mussolini carved up the fascist puppet state of Albania during WW2, including Kosovo in the Albanian borders. After WW2, despite the population shift resulting from Axis intervention, the population of Kosovo was approximately 550,000 Albanians to 450,000 Serbs. Today it is around 1,600,000 Albanians and slightly over 200,000 Serbs. So who has been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo????

It is also a fact that over 70% of western european-bound heroin passes through Kosovo, under the noses of the UN. An independent kosovo will be a safe haven for criminals and drug lords, more than it already is. It will also create a bad precedent for other ethnic conflicts; that military force can be used to carve up new countries from the land of sovereign nations, contrary to international laws and resolutions.

And what argument could then be used to prevent other separatist regions from gaining independence around the world if Kosovo got it? Likely the old "well, the Albanians dealt with unique oppression and abuse so they deserve it more." This argument is weak, as the Albanians also enjoyed unique support from terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, and pursued violent means of gaining independence. The 99 Kosovo war was started on a military level only after the terrorist KLA began pouring into Kosovo from Albania with arms, terrorizing Serbs in a successful attempt to antagonize the Serb army into responding, which they did.
Milosevic sending troops in to fight the KLA is similar to if Mexicans had a rebel group with heavy weaponry and Al-Qaeda assistance attacking Americans in Texas and fighting to "liberate" Texas from the US. Bush, and Clinton for that matter, would respond with swift military action. Milosevic did the same, and was likened to Hitler for it.
What if in the Mexican scenario China bombed the US because our military response to a violent and direct threat to our borders or sovereignty was unjust? This would be just as ridiculous as the US interevention in Kosovo was.

canadien,

"Nick" is only one of many albanian posters here, who act like responsible individuals, but from time to time reveal their real face, and...it is a quite ugly one.
not only is he arguing with "historians" like Noel Malcolm, who, paid by the US-albanian lobby, openly claims things that are in complete contradiction with written history and archeological artifacts found and still being found in Kosovo.

don´t care about Nick or other hate-related posters here, as long as they are reduced to lies and accusations, you know that they have no clue...they are just desperate, that´s why the accuse every serbian comment to be "racism", even if not having any connection to racial issues.

The Balkans war is over. Serbia has not controlled Kosovo since 1999, so as far as they are concerned, Kosovo may as well be independent. Not a single Serb or Albanian life is worth less than an agreement between extremist politicians. Autonomy and independence are closely linked concepts. Full autonomy is independence, right? Kosovars deserve the economic security of independence. Serbia deserves the political security an agreement will bring. The EU provides a longer term answer; they should admit all remaining Balkans countries by 2012. With a separate independent republic of Kosovo, both Serbia and Kosovo politicians will need to solve economic problems: jobs, poverty, poor services, visas etc

Kosovo status talks: Serbia wins the second round

By Ferik F.-Balkan Update

Another round of International negotiation to determine the status of Kosovo has essentially ended, and Serbia won this round. Credit be given to whom it’s due, Serbia, who managed to postpone the independence of Kosovo, yet again, despite repeated promises by the E.U and the U.S that Kosovo would become independent this summer. Russia actually did the deed, but the fact that Serbia stood up to the E.U and U.S pressure is pretty amazing. Or another conclusion one could come to is that the E.U remains a spineless ‘superpower’ and does not dare challenge the rouge nation of Russia, while the U.S doesn’t really view the Independence of Kosovo as much of a big deal. Whichever conclusion you come to, either way, Serbia is the winner of this round.

As we all know, Kosovo was the winner of the first round when Ahtisaari recommended essential Independence a few months ago. This was not due to the skills of Kosovo leaders but a merely a recognition by Ahtisaari that Independence was the only realistic solution. But despite that, all Kosovo leaders were happy to claim credit. Some of them even promised Independence by May; while other insisted June was the correct month. Nobody really knows why on earth they would promise something they could not deliver, but it appears the U.S UNDERSECRETARY of State Chris Burns was the culprit. In numerous occasions he explicitly told Kosovo leaders that Kosovo would become independent by June. Long behold Mr. Burns is nowhere to be found now, while all Kosovo leaders are running for cover. They really look like the idiots they are. These people actually thought that Europe and U.S was going to deliver Independence on their plates, just like that. I have never seen such lack of leadership and gutlessness in my life.


Now, all it’s not done and Kosovo will probably become Independent this fall, but when it does, it will be despite of these leaders and not because of them. The third round of negotiation is critical in that it will determine whether Kosovo will actually become a real country or a banana republic. Serbia knows that it cannot really rule Kosovo again, but it will try to chop up the Ahtisaari plan as much as possible. Any further erosion of the Ahtisaari plan is a win for Serbia and a disaster for Kosovo. The question is whether the leaders of Kosovo have any guts in their stomach to say no to further compromises? I am convinced they don’t, but I hope I will be proven wrong. If EU tries to sweeten the deal for Serbia by watering down the Ahtisaari plan, it’s Kosovo’s turn to say no. After all Serbia did it (said no and nothing happen to her), why can’t Kosovo do the same?

They will not take matters into there own hands. They have been advised by the US and now the EU to include Britian not to fly off the handle. Everyone will keep there heads cool during the summer all it takes is a bunch of dummies like in 2004 to cause havoc but the response not what was expected from the Peacekeeping forces, arrest, curfew and people lost there lives for what? Nothing and set kosovo back another 4 years. Learn from the mistakes of past, March 2004 well organized display of how to cause troubles in a somewhat peaceful land did nothing for anyone. learn frome the past and do not allow some fools to provoke a response that will again set Kosovo back. I ask the people to remember 2004, not speaking to those who LIVE OUTSIDE OF KOSOVO but to the people who actually live there during that time. Would you want a repeat performance of Crackdown especially during the summer months when families are visiting from outside. Would you want to lock down at 6pm to 6am because of some fools YES I SAID IT FOOLS(AHMAK i don't know the serbian translation) who want to try and prove a point no i don't think so. No i am not racist either just trying to prove a point. Only a fool would take matters into there own hands. Would like to be isolated like the palestians in GAZA. They took matters into ther own hands and now the support base is running for cover and trying to make peace.

One thing everyone should understand. Two million kosovar Albanians can never live under the Serbian rule again.
The UN might decide to create some kind of Taiwan type state in Kosovo, but no UN, EU, or whoever else can make kosovars accept serbian rule.
The democratic countries are trying to find a solution based on this fundamental issue.

The readers and commentators should take very careful note of Nick's comments which have a running stream of threats of violence against Kosovar Serbs if Kosovo is not amputated from Serbia, and given independence. K-Albanians argument for independence is that if they don't get it, violence will erupt: this is called blackmail and extortion, and the world sees it for what it is. Milosevic is dead and Serbia is democratic, so are K-Albanian arguments for independence. There is no tyranny coming from Belgrade, only threats of violence from Pristina. But international law will prevail. When Pristina respects the UN Charter and international law, then reconsiliation can begin. The Kurds have an infinitely stronger argument for independence from Iraq and Turkey. When will Pristina support Turkey losing territory?

The problem is to be solved only in a very long term basis. The autonomous area of kosovo with more guaranteed investment pouring in the area would be a solution. As long as Kosovo remains a para-economy 8 person family basis and funds fying here and there uncontrolled by strong state institutions the real problem is not solved , it not even adressed. Military supervision by third parties only makes things worst. Albanians and Serbs need to align to more international institutions in their own governing styles. Serbian assecion to the EU is a good tool in this context with a good time frame for liberal investsment from the International community. an institutional hole in a naturally deprived area in the middle of the Balkans will not create wealth but an even larger para economy wich no European can accept in the Long term. So this realization will lead to the reassesment of the situation.

Mathew, you keep forgetting that half of deputies in serbian parlament belong to Sesel party(charged with war crimes and is being tried in Hague Tribunal). So stop talkin about Ceku , RAMBO and ZMIJA.

Mark, I would like you to name only 10 ancient orthodox moansteries in Kosova, and I will forget you number that you mentioned on your post(over 100 ancient monasteries). I can give you a head start with deqani Monastery, please name another 9 for me if you can. I dare you and any serb or international historian and/or politicions. I am waiting for an honest to god anwer.

“Mathew, you keep forgetting that half of deputies in serbian parlament belong to Sesel party (Ahmet Isufi, Friday, 22 June, 2007, 10:19)”

Ahmet, I suggest you actually read my comments rather then dismiss them out of hand, of course I mentioned radical Serb politicians as well.

“I personally feel that no one from the leadership of the KLA should be allowed to participate in the government (I feel the same way about the radical Serb politicians who controlled paramilitary groups).”

“Matthew, Serbs should not be afraid of Ceku since he is a very constructive politician. (Question Mark, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 21:12)”

Trust me I don’t get my information from Serbian newspapers and I am strongly moderate. Ceku simply scares me, and many other Serbs, bad things always happen to us when he’s around, now he’s talking about people who were under his command getting ready to fight again, and yeah that scares me greatly. If he’s not guilty, he has a lot of work to do to convince moderates like myself that he’s a positive factor in the region, instead he chooses to talk about possible violence. If you want Serbs to feel safe in Kosovo, don’t elect KLA members, its as simple as that.

To James


Remember here you have a nation that has been humiliated, masacred, house burned etc. etc and you are suggesting thay should forget everything. It only happened few years ago. It takes a good generation or two for these two nations to able to try and live together.
And not every albanian has spent 18 years in UK to become a moderate like myself.

"One thing everyone should understand. Two million kosovar Albanians can never live under the Serbian rule again. "

Nick, there´s obviously something YOU simply refuse to understand: it´s not about "ruling" the K-albanians, they will rule themselves. but there is no such thing like independence, no changing of borders.

RE: 29 Serbian Orthodox Churches damaged and or burned in 2004, total Serbian Orthodox Churches and Religious gravesites desecrated by the KLA and Albanian extremists is well over 100.


St. Cyril and Methodius Prizren Seminary 19th c. burned, destroyed UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire
Bishop's residence Prizren Residence burned, dynamited UNMIK/KFOR Report -

March 18: Archbishop seat, Archangel Monastery, an Orthodox Church and Orthodox Seminary set on fire & destroyed
Christ the Savior Prizren Church 1330 burned UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

Holy Archangels Prizren Monastery 1343-1352 burned UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

Holy Virgin of Ljevis Prizren Church 9-11th c./ 1306 / frescoes from 12th c. burned inside UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. George Prizren Church 16th c. burned inside Runjevac church; UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. Nicholas Prizren Church 1331 burned Tutic's church; UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire

St. George Cathedral Prizren Church 1856 burned, desecrated and mined UNMIK/KFOR Report March 17 - Orthodox Seminary in town centre & 3 Orthodox churches set on fire.

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

St. Panteleimon Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

Sts. Cosmas and Damian (Unmercenary Physicians) Prizren, Potkaljaja Church 14th c, reconstructed later burned March 17 - whole Serbian part of town burned and destroyed

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Prizren, Zivinjane Church mined UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 19 - Explosion completely destroys old Orthodox Church near Zivinjane village)

St. Kyriake (Sunday) Orahovac, Brnjaca Church 1852 burned, destroyed (UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 18 - Orthodox Church set on fire & destroyed in Brnjaca village)

Holy Virgin Djakovica Church 16-19th c burned, razed to the ground

Holy Trinity Cathedral Djakovica Church mined, debris removed UNMIK/KFOR Report March 18 - Rioters remove debris of destroyed Orthodox Church with trucks & trailers Approx 5,000 K-Albanians participate.

St. Lazarus Djakovica, Piskote Church destroyed, only floor remains The church which was was only looted now is completely destroyed with only its floor remaining. Several tombs were opened and the bones of the deceased scattered.

St. Elias Djakovica, Bistrazin Church completely destroyed Church was vandalized inside in 1999 but stood intact until March 17-19, when it was mined and blown up.

Devic (St. Ioanichius) Srbica Monastery 15th c. burned to ground Tomb of St. Ioanichius of Devic opened and desecrated. Fire was burned in the tomb of the Saint.

St. John the Baptist Pec Church burned
Most Holy Mother of God Pec, Belo Polje Church burned, desecrated inside

St. John the Baptist Pec, Pecka Banja Church burned

St. Uros the Emperor Urosevac Church 14th c. hand granades, burned UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 17 - 3 hand grenades thrown at Serbian Orthodox church - church set on fire, at least 19 KFOR soldiers and policemen wounded defending the church, destroyed city cemetery;

UNMIK/KFOR Report March 18 - 1,500 K-Albanians rampage - burn Orthodox Church & up to 5 K-Serb houses in townK-Albanian crowd attempts to set Orthodox Church on fire in K-Serb village of Talinovce Church was set to fire - 5 K-Albanian males arrested

St. Eliah Urosevac, Nekodim Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery

St. Peter and Paul Urosevac, Talinovac Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery
Most Holy Mother of God Urosevac, Sovtovic Church destroyed Destroyed with cemetery

Donja Slapasnica Kamenica, Donja Slapasnica Church stoned Under investigation
St. Archangel Michael Stimlje Church 1920 burned

St. Nicholas Pristina Church 19th c burned UNMIK/KFOR Report: March 18 - Rioters attack Old Orthodox Church in Taslixhe - the church burned to the ground with the parish home and all church archives

St. Nicholas Kosovo Polje Church 1940 burned inside, desecrated

St. Katherine Kosovo Polje, Bresje Church 19th c. vandalized inside

St. Eliah Vucitrn Church 19th c. burned
Church in Poluzje Vucitrn, Poluzje Church burned

St. Archangel Michael Obilic Church new burned inside

St. Sava Kosovska Mitrovica South Church burned twice UNMIK/KFOR Report - March 18: Molotov cocktails thrown into perimeter of KFOR-guarded Orthodox Church in South Mitrovica. Church & several neighboring houses set on fire.

St. Elian Podujevo Church 1929 destroyed UNMIK/KFOR Report - March 18 Orthodox Church set on fire. Czech officer confirmed that coffins were dug up and bones of dead scattered.

St. Peter and Paul Istok Church explosions
Church in Baja Istok, Baja Church explosions
Church in Vitina Vitina Church granades, burned (according to UNMIK/KFOR Report: 4 K-Serbian houses set on fire & Orthodox Church badly damaged)
Decani Monastery 1327-1335 attacked by mortar Monastery was attacked by 6 mortar grenades on March 17, around 22.00. No damage was made to the holy site (confirmed by KFOR and monks of the monastery)

Ahmet, I applaud you for your sincere desire for the facts. The following list is merely a 'few' of the 110 plus documented cases of Albanian attacks on historic Serbian Orthodox churches and holy sites in Kosovo since 1999;

1. The Medieval Holy Trinity Monastery (the church was frescoed) near Musutiste (Suva Reka), 14th century, plundered, set on fire and completely destroyed by explosives.

2. The Medieval church of Dormition of the Mother of God, (painted in frescoes), built in 1315, in Musutiste, burned and afterwards torn down.

3. The Medieval St. Mark's Monastery, near Korisa, Prizren, built in 1467, looted, set on fire and totally destroyed by explosives.

4. The Medieval Monastery of St. Archangel Gabriel (with frescoes) in Binac village, near Vitina, 14th century, looted and burned.

5. The Medieval Monastery of St. Joannicius of Devic (painted in frescoes), near Srbica, 15th century, demolished and robbed.

6. The Monastery of Dormition - St. Uros (14th century, reconstructed in 1996), Gornja Nerodimlja, blown up with a mine and torn down.

7. The Monastery of St. Archangel (14th century, frescoed, reconstructed in 17th century), Gornja Nerodimlja, set on fire and blown up with a mine, the graveyard has been destroyed, the pine dating from 14th century has been cut down and burned.

8. St. Nicola's church (old church, reconstructed in 1983), Donje Nerodimlje, demolished, set on fire, and blown up with a mine.

9. St. Stephen's church (14th century, reconstructed in 1996), Donje Nerodimlje, situated at the graveyard, demolished, set on fire and blown up with a mine.

10. The Presentation of the Virgin church in Dolac, near Klina, built in 1620, (with frescoes), burned, the Holy Throne demolished, afterwards mined and demolished by explosives.

11. St. Nicola s church in Slovinje village near Lipljan, founded in the 16th century, reconstructed in the 19th century, utterly destroyed by explosives.

27. The church of St. Elijah the Prophet in Bistrazin, between Prizren and Djakovica, reconstructed on the old foundations before 1941, during World War II ruined by Albanian fascists, afterwards reconstructed for the second time in 1988, now completely demolished.

32. The Monastery of Sts. Cosma and Damian, the Unmercenary Healers, in Zociste (with frescoes), from the 14th century, looted and demolished, the greatest part of the residential building burned.

34. St. Nicola s church in Kijevo, near Klina, built in the 14th century (painted in frescoes), leveled to the ground, crosses and tombs in the graveyard ruined.

36. St. Nicolas church in Ljubizda, near Prizren, from the 16th century, plundered and demolished; the parish center was set on fire.

37. In the same village, Ljubizda, the church of St. Elijah, the Prophet (16th - 17th century), situated at the graveyard, reconstructed on the old foundations, looted, demolished, its interior set on fire, mined, the graveyard around it destroyed.

54. The Church of St. Petka was an old, restored sanctuary in the vicinity of the Serb village of Klokot. Mentioned in writings from 1381. The church interior was burned and on 27 July 1999 it was blown up.

57. The 14th century Church of St. George, in Rudnik was restored in the 16th century. Frescoes date from the same period. The church was destroyed by explosives.

55. The Church of St. Lazarus near the river Belicnica in the village of Belica. Built in the 14th century. Was a single-nave and vaulted church with the remains of the narthex in its front. Around the church are the old and the new cemeteries. The church was robbed and burned.

64. The Church of St. Nicholas in Prizren bequeathed by King Dusan to the Monastery of St Archangel in 1348. The church was in service until 1795 when Mahmud-pasha Busatlija looted it. Restored in 1857. The church treasured icons dating back as far as the mid-14th century. It was mined with twenty explosive devices. Five went off. Considerable damage.

Jovan,
This is probably something I will never understand. If we can rule Kosovo and Serbia practically has NO SAY over Kosovo, then why all this fuss about borders. Very soon all of your integrity borders will be dissolved into the United States of Europe anyway, so why bother.

Whoever is using the alias "Nick" in these forums could you please find another name :) i'v been using it for a while...

thanks.

B92

Please allow me to post this comment on all the relevant articles for clarification.

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Hello everybody,

Someone has used my name "Nick" in the following article on the 22 of June:

"EU warns Kosovo against declaring independence"

I would just like to clarify that this is not me (the usual Nick that posts here) but a new poster.

I would also like to ask this new poster if he could please change his name so as not to create unnecesary confusion.

How come most of the so called "serb curches" mentioned here are built during the turkish occupation (14-19 century)? Serbs cry all the time saying that they have suffered a lot under the turkish rule. That they faith have been banned and other lies like this. The truth dear readers, hurts: Serbs havent suffered at all but have collaborated with turks. Isnt it the case that Serbs accepted turkish occupation after only 1 (one) battle, meanwhile albanians resisted for at least 30 years and granted for that resistence with a harsh treatment by turks, mass conversion and destruction of all their old religion records?

Ilir, I can see how reading such an extensive (though not nearly complete) list of religious sites your people destroyed can hurt, and as you say, the truth hurts even for Albanians.

In regards to your comments, I will begin by asking you to explain how a church built in the 14th century (1300's) was built under Ottoman occupation, which only included Kosovo by 1459 under Mehmed 2. This means that despite the battle of Kosovo taking place in 1389, the Ottomans were not occupiers of Serbia until the 15th century. A great deal of the religous sites attacked by Albanians are from the 14th century and older. Also, the Ottomans used a millet system which allowed 'infidels' or non-muslims to keep their religion and continue building churches, etc. ( Christianity), but these non-Muslims were subjects called raya (ie. cattle) and they had to pay much higher taxes than Muslims. However, the Ottomans, as brutal as they were, had some level of respect for the religious beliefs of their subjects, enough respect not to simply destroy their churches and holy sites because they were non-Muslim or non-Turk.

And in regards to your comments on Albanians in the Ottoman Empire; after being conquered by Turks less than 20 years after the Serbs were (1478), the majority of Albanians converted to Islam, and thus received preferential treatment in comparison to their fellow Greek, Serb and Bulgar Christians. In fact, this is why most Albanians didn't want to leave the Ottoman empire towards the end of their reign, while the Christian subjects (Greek, Serb, Bulgar..) all fought fiercly for independence.

It is well noted by global historians that Serbs represented the strongest source of resistance in the Ottoman Empire in Europe, which is why Austrians and Hungarians invited Serbs north to form a resistance on the borders btw. the empires.

Albanians, on the other hand, while they did resist Ottomans in isolated pockets following occupation, did not represent anywhere near the determination to be free that the Serbs did. And the Albanians were not forced to convert, neither were Bosnians. The Ottomans clearly allowed you to retain your religion after being conquered (Serbs/Greeks...) but treated you like a 2nd class citizen, and Albanians wanted better treatment so they converted.

And in the end, does it even matter if these ancient monasteries were built under the watch of the Turks or not? Does it make them less historic or old? No, actually you are trying to divert attention from the real issue; Albanian aggression towards Serbian historical sites. There is no justification for this, and UNESCO has expressed sincere concerns. The world is finally seeing through the fog of propaganda and realizing the dangers of granting Kosovo independence to people like you, who have no regrets about destroying historic religious sites and killing Serbs. In your eyes, Serbs = evil so anything bad you do to them or their culture is justified. There is no justification for such behavior, and defending it speaks volumes about your character.