Exhumation near Srebrenica uncovers 15 bodies

The issue of “secondary graves” is not very well understood by those who have not fought in wars.

In the heat of battle the enemy take casualties and the survivors flee. The victors bury the dead in temporary graves as a public health measure. These temporary graves will be near to the place where the battle was fought. But these places may not be suitable for long-term burial. At a later date, when the threat from the enemy has lessened, these temporary graves will be opened and the dead moved to more suitable burial grounds. For example, the dead may have been moved from a school sports field to a nearby meadow. When hostilities have finally ended the dead can be moved once again, this time for family burial or simply to be interned in a recognised burial ground. There is nothing necessarily sinister about moving bodies.

«For example, the dead may have been moved from a school sports field to a nearby meadow.»

Michael, you have a problem to look at the truth as it is. You know like me that these men from Srebrencia were gunned down by the 1000s and near a huge mass grave where they were thrown like garbage, and, later, when Milosevic heard of this, he ordered the exhumation and burial in various sites... so the world don't find the amplitude of the massacre.

Shame on you Michael to distort is such a manner the events of Srebrenica.

On a related matter, some bodies found in “mass graves” have sometimes been tied together. For the hacks in the western media this is proof positive that people have been tied up before execution. But this does not have to be the case. I have spoken to soldiers who were given the unpleasant task of burying enemy dead. Dead soldiers often have terrible wounds and their bodies may have been left in the open for some days. Rather than physically manhandling the dead into trucks, what sometimes happens is that rope or wire is wrapped crudely around the dead. A bundle of mangled humanity is then dragged by tractor into a pre-dug grave. The bodies are then buried. No one bothers to untangle the rope and wire.

It’s a nasty business but it is just another aspect of warfare; an aspect you will never see on CNN or the BBC.

Victor, what is your source of Milosevic ordering the exhumation?

Naser Oric raided Serb villages "near Srebrenica". The claim of secondary graves is used because they didn't find the bodies in Srebrenica, so to tie bodies outside Srebrenica into their propaganda they always say they are secondary graves.

But the effort of burying, redigging and reburying bodies would take a lot of time and manpower. With the UN, the media and foreign spies all over Bosnia I don't see how no one could have photographed or got satellite imagery of this.

We will likely never hear the results, if any, of the identities of these bodies. If they were numbered and labeled from the place they are dug up along with the names, they you could figure this out. But instead they leave people hanging as to the identity, and many bodies remain unidentified. Since Serbs are hindered or prevented from examining or testing for these bodies, I'll bet those they can't identify as Muslims after several years would be Serbs or people from earlier war eras (WWII, WWI).

Victor - If anything, your reply to Michael Thomas smacks of ignorance and bigotry. He gave a perfectly plausible explanation for the condition of the bodies in the graves BUT your automatic assumption is that they were bound and executed. This may well have been the case but unless you are a qualified coroner with access to the records of the graves in Bosnia i sugges you don't repeat your earlier comments

victor I think the SHAME is on you and your anti-Serb comments.

Why don't you tell the truth regarding Srebrenica? The truth is that muslim forces killed/slaughtered Serbs and burned their villages around Srebrenica! Why? Because they wanted to ethnically clense Serbs from Bosnia. They wanted to take Bosnia over and control and give no power to Serbs.

So you "Srebrenica Massacre" was retalliation to what muslims did. Again it wasn't the Serbs who started with the killings!

The article says nothing about this site and yet Victor wants to make a purse out of a sow’s ear. Victor go to this link http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/030409ED.htm where Milosevic questions a witness about Zeleni Jadar . This witness like Victor provides a story called “he said she said”. For all you know Victor these bodies could be the thousands of Serbs that were killed in and around Srebrenica. Let me provide you with two more eye witness accounts of events at Srebrenica and see which one is more believable. . Captain Thornton interpreter British Army wrote from Vitez a letter to Time Magazine stating how Serbian men, women and children were killed in Srebrenica and dozens surrounding villages. Here is what Lewis MacKenzie had to say about this event in the Globe and Mail July 14, 2005 Page A17 “As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven. These attacks reached a crescendo in 1994 and carried on into early 1995 after the Canadian infantry company that had been there for a year was replaced by a larger Dutch contingent.”, He further writes “Evidence given at The Hague war crimes tribunal casts serious doubt on the figure of "up to" 8,000 Bosnian Muslims massacred. That figure includes "up to" 5,000 who have been classified as missing. More than 2,000 bodies have been recovered in and around Srebrenica, and they include victims of the three years of intense fighting in the area. The math just doesn't support the scale of 8,000 killed” Lewis concludes his comments by saying “Evidence to date suggests that he was responsible for killing as many Serb civilians outside Srebrenica as the Bosnian Serb army was for massacring Bosnian Muslims inside the town.” As I said many times one dead Yugoslav is one too many and all I ask from Victor and those who see dead Muslims and Croats in every grave in Yugoslavia to be even-handed about the crimes in Bosnia. Why is it Victors that you always claim dead Serbs as Croats and Muslims? It seems to me that Victor only accepts dead Serbs as Croat citizens.

«... the grave contains the remains of victims who were executed in Srebrenica in the summer of 1995. »

In the summer of 1995, only Muslims were executed in Srebrenica, and the article does not talk about victims 'around Srebrenica' that could be Serbs.

I see that Walter has a problem with the figure of 8000 Muslims executed by Mladic's troops. This is strange because even the RS has recognized this figure of 8000 executed by the Bosnian Serbs in July 1995.

Like I said in previous posts, it's going to take 20 years before all the 'secondary' graves are identified, and all the corpses are found. In conclusion, for the shame of all Serbs, 8000 Muslims civilians were executed in a few days by Mladic and his troops. This massacre will remain in Serbian archives for generations, as the worst massacre in Europe since WW2.

The TRUTH has to be repeated in order that History does not repeat itiself. I know it very upsetting for Serbs to witness the cruelty and barbarity of Mladic's troops 12 years after the events, but the TRUTH has to come out.

Michael, you have a problem to look at the truth as it is. You know like me that these men from Srebrencia were gunned down by the 1000s and near a huge mass grave where they were thrown like garbage, and, later, when Milosevic heard of this, he ordered the exhumation and burial in various sites... so the world don't find the amplitude of the massacre.

Shame on you Michael to distort is such a manner the events of Srebrenica.
(Victor, 20 June 2007, 14:10)


Many were gunned down in Srebrinica including Bosnian Serbs and Muslims.

Srebrenica has been chosen to be publicised in order to lay guilt one one nation the Serbs when in reality the break of Yugoslavia was a civil war. Serbians wanted to remain within the federation of Yugoslavia, other ethnic groups did not including the Croats, Muslims & Slovenians.

Since you live in Canada, why don't you talk to former Canadian UN General Mackenzie?

Or better yet, write a letter to General Morillion of France or General Colin Rose in England or Lord David Owen , or Cyrus Vance.
These are the people who were on the ground.


The only shame is B-92 still allowing Victor's racist and defamatory comments to be posted.

Victor, stop using collective guilt on me and my fellow Serbs. There are 12 million of us Serbs on this planet. Alright? And I suppose you've heard of the phrase "Sto ljudi, sto ćudi". So quit it, Victor.

Michael Thomas didn't have to raise such alternative views about primary and secondary graves regarding Srebrenica. The comments were completely unnecessary. The ICTY and others have conducted a lot of investigation into the events of July 1995 in that part of Bosnia as to ascertain what has long been known to have taken place.

Like I've mentioned, offering alternative views and explanations regarding Srebrenica are not helpful to either the victims' families or to us Serbs. What happened there was a great tragedy that all conscientious people condemn, and for which the perpetrators and organisers have to be caught and brought to justice. A number of whom already have been, and hopefully, there will be more.

Victor the article states “commission for locating missing persons believes”. They can believe anything they want including that Hitler loved dogs and consequently he was a nice person but believing something does not make it a FACT. .The figures that I quote are not mine or make believe but from a reliable source who commanded the Canadian army in the region, You want more Victor Note the dates?????

NEWSWEEK military correspondent, from syndicated column 8/24/95
Srebrenica fell to the Serbs on July 11th. According to Colonel Thomas
Karremans, the commander of a Dutch battalion deployed there, the Bosnian. Muslims had burned around 200 surrounding (Serbian) villages...

"British General Rose is complaining about the Bosnian Muslims in Gorazde; they exaggerated the number of dead and wounded.. War psychosis in a city under siege which, after a time, created a false
impression regarding the number of victims.."

Washington Times 21Feb 95. Andrew Borowiec GENEVA.. "Maj. Franchet,"
said to have served on the general staff of the U.N. peacekeepers in Bosnia. His book, "Useless Blue Helmets - What I Saw in Bosnia,".. states that the infamous May 27, 1992, mortar attack on a crowd outside a Sarajevo bakery that killed 17 civilians and wounded 150 others was carefully staged by the
Bosnian Muslim government

Independent, London, Oct 5, 1995.. Croatian forces committed widespread murder against elderly Serb non-combatants while looting and burning Serb homes..

«Victor, stop using collective guilt on me and my fellow Serbs.»

I am not a partisan of collective guilt but of collective conscience. I gladly see that you have attained this degree of conscience. Unfortunately, it is not the case with a majority of Serbs who deny the Srebrenica massacre and who see themselves as the victims.

Collective conscience would should all Serbs, as Patriarch Pavle so well expressed, that the «atrocities committed in the name of all Serbs haves tarnished the soul of the nation for generations.»

Last year, during the commemoration of the Srebrenica massacre, I heard on television Serb women and men in the RS saying: « We did to them what they did to us.»

This is an example of lack of collective conscience. And there are some on this forum also who presents the Serbs as the victims when they are the aggressors who killed more than 50 000 Muslim civilians in Bosnia during the summer of 1992. And for some strange reasons, most Serbs here contradict me on this fact acknowledged by Biljana Plavsic herself during her trial.

Be sure, my only point is to make sure that all Serbs recognized what they have done, as you do, and stop pointing at others.

"they are the aggressors who killed more than 50 000 Muslim civilians in Bosnia during the summer of 1992. And for some strange reasons, most Serbs here contradict me on this fact acknowledged by Biljana Plavsic herself during her trial. (Victor, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 20:04)"
My dear friend Victor, even Tokaca, from whom you claim to get your numbers, contradicts you completely and utterly on this fact. He puts the total number of civilians on ALL SIDES at 39,684 for the ENTIRE war. Where does this magic imaginary number come from Victor? It is nice and round and I like the number 50,000 its sounds so important and impressive.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=06&dd=21&nav_category=123&nav_id=41958
There is no need to makes things seem worse then they are. We need to move forward from arguing about numbers and who did what to whom and focus on reconciliation.
BTW, I'm sure it just makes your blood boil that 30% of the civilian deaths according to the ICTY were Serbs, mirroring the population EXACTLY.
I did my share, I worked with Bosniak Humanitarian Groups and was publicly called a traitor on Serbian television for appearing in round table discussions with them on TV. I personally apologized to many Bosniaks for what my people did.
Precisely because of that my dear Victor, I have the MORAL AUTHORITY to tell you that you are dead wrong and only attempting to spread hate and divide the Southern Slavs, who are a good people and need to look forward and not to the past.
Why don't you wander off and find a real cause, how about Rwanda? There's a real instance of genocide, why aren't you pursuing that? Is an African life worth that much less then a European life to you Victor? Could you possibly be any more racist?

The issue of “secondary graves” is not very well understood by those who have not fought in wars.

In the heat of battle the enemy take casualties and the survivors flee. The victors bury the dead in temporary graves as a public health measure. These temporary graves will be near to the place where the battle was fought. But these places may not be suitable for long-term burial. At a later date, when the threat from the enemy has lessened, these temporary graves will be opened and the dead moved to more suitable burial grounds. For example, the dead may have been moved from a school sports field to a nearby meadow. When hostilities have finally ended the dead can be moved once again, this time for family burial or simply to be interned in a recognised burial ground. There is nothing necessarily sinister about moving bodies.

«For example, the dead may have been moved from a school sports field to a nearby meadow.»

Michael, you have a problem to look at the truth as it is. You know like me that these men from Srebrencia were gunned down by the 1000s and near a huge mass grave where they were thrown like garbage, and, later, when Milosevic heard of this, he ordered the exhumation and burial in various sites... so the world don't find the amplitude of the massacre.

Shame on you Michael to distort is such a manner the events of Srebrenica.

On a related matter, some bodies found in “mass graves” have sometimes been tied together. For the hacks in the western media this is proof positive that people have been tied up before execution. But this does not have to be the case. I have spoken to soldiers who were given the unpleasant task of burying enemy dead. Dead soldiers often have terrible wounds and their bodies may have been left in the open for some days. Rather than physically manhandling the dead into trucks, what sometimes happens is that rope or wire is wrapped crudely around the dead. A bundle of mangled humanity is then dragged by tractor into a pre-dug grave. The bodies are then buried. No one bothers to untangle the rope and wire.

It’s a nasty business but it is just another aspect of warfare; an aspect you will never see on CNN or the BBC.

Victor, what is your source of Milosevic ordering the exhumation?

Naser Oric raided Serb villages "near Srebrenica". The claim of secondary graves is used because they didn't find the bodies in Srebrenica, so to tie bodies outside Srebrenica into their propaganda they always say they are secondary graves.

But the effort of burying, redigging and reburying bodies would take a lot of time and manpower. With the UN, the media and foreign spies all over Bosnia I don't see how no one could have photographed or got satellite imagery of this.

We will likely never hear the results, if any, of the identities of these bodies. If they were numbered and labeled from the place they are dug up along with the names, they you could figure this out. But instead they leave people hanging as to the identity, and many bodies remain unidentified. Since Serbs are hindered or prevented from examining or testing for these bodies, I'll bet those they can't identify as Muslims after several years would be Serbs or people from earlier war eras (WWII, WWI).

Victor - If anything, your reply to Michael Thomas smacks of ignorance and bigotry. He gave a perfectly plausible explanation for the condition of the bodies in the graves BUT your automatic assumption is that they were bound and executed. This may well have been the case but unless you are a qualified coroner with access to the records of the graves in Bosnia i sugges you don't repeat your earlier comments

victor I think the SHAME is on you and your anti-Serb comments.

Why don't you tell the truth regarding Srebrenica? The truth is that muslim forces killed/slaughtered Serbs and burned their villages around Srebrenica! Why? Because they wanted to ethnically clense Serbs from Bosnia. They wanted to take Bosnia over and control and give no power to Serbs.

So you "Srebrenica Massacre" was retalliation to what muslims did. Again it wasn't the Serbs who started with the killings!

The article says nothing about this site and yet Victor wants to make a purse out of a sow’s ear. Victor go to this link http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/030409ED.htm where Milosevic questions a witness about Zeleni Jadar . This witness like Victor provides a story called “he said she said”. For all you know Victor these bodies could be the thousands of Serbs that were killed in and around Srebrenica. Let me provide you with two more eye witness accounts of events at Srebrenica and see which one is more believable. . Captain Thornton interpreter British Army wrote from Vitez a letter to Time Magazine stating how Serbian men, women and children were killed in Srebrenica and dozens surrounding villages. Here is what Lewis MacKenzie had to say about this event in the Globe and Mail July 14, 2005 Page A17 “As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven. These attacks reached a crescendo in 1994 and carried on into early 1995 after the Canadian infantry company that had been there for a year was replaced by a larger Dutch contingent.”, He further writes “Evidence given at The Hague war crimes tribunal casts serious doubt on the figure of "up to" 8,000 Bosnian Muslims massacred. That figure includes "up to" 5,000 who have been classified as missing. More than 2,000 bodies have been recovered in and around Srebrenica, and they include victims of the three years of intense fighting in the area. The math just doesn't support the scale of 8,000 killed” Lewis concludes his comments by saying “Evidence to date suggests that he was responsible for killing as many Serb civilians outside Srebrenica as the Bosnian Serb army was for massacring Bosnian Muslims inside the town.” As I said many times one dead Yugoslav is one too many and all I ask from Victor and those who see dead Muslims and Croats in every grave in Yugoslavia to be even-handed about the crimes in Bosnia. Why is it Victors that you always claim dead Serbs as Croats and Muslims? It seems to me that Victor only accepts dead Serbs as Croat citizens.

«... the grave contains the remains of victims who were executed in Srebrenica in the summer of 1995. »

In the summer of 1995, only Muslims were executed in Srebrenica, and the article does not talk about victims 'around Srebrenica' that could be Serbs.

I see that Walter has a problem with the figure of 8000 Muslims executed by Mladic's troops. This is strange because even the RS has recognized this figure of 8000 executed by the Bosnian Serbs in July 1995.

Like I said in previous posts, it's going to take 20 years before all the 'secondary' graves are identified, and all the corpses are found. In conclusion, for the shame of all Serbs, 8000 Muslims civilians were executed in a few days by Mladic and his troops. This massacre will remain in Serbian archives for generations, as the worst massacre in Europe since WW2.

The TRUTH has to be repeated in order that History does not repeat itiself. I know it very upsetting for Serbs to witness the cruelty and barbarity of Mladic's troops 12 years after the events, but the TRUTH has to come out.

Michael, you have a problem to look at the truth as it is. You know like me that these men from Srebrencia were gunned down by the 1000s and near a huge mass grave where they were thrown like garbage, and, later, when Milosevic heard of this, he ordered the exhumation and burial in various sites... so the world don't find the amplitude of the massacre.

Shame on you Michael to distort is such a manner the events of Srebrenica.
(Victor, 20 June 2007, 14:10)


Many were gunned down in Srebrinica including Bosnian Serbs and Muslims.

Srebrenica has been chosen to be publicised in order to lay guilt one one nation the Serbs when in reality the break of Yugoslavia was a civil war. Serbians wanted to remain within the federation of Yugoslavia, other ethnic groups did not including the Croats, Muslims & Slovenians.

Since you live in Canada, why don't you talk to former Canadian UN General Mackenzie?

Or better yet, write a letter to General Morillion of France or General Colin Rose in England or Lord David Owen , or Cyrus Vance.
These are the people who were on the ground.


The only shame is B-92 still allowing Victor's racist and defamatory comments to be posted.

Victor, stop using collective guilt on me and my fellow Serbs. There are 12 million of us Serbs on this planet. Alright? And I suppose you've heard of the phrase "Sto ljudi, sto ćudi". So quit it, Victor.

Michael Thomas didn't have to raise such alternative views about primary and secondary graves regarding Srebrenica. The comments were completely unnecessary. The ICTY and others have conducted a lot of investigation into the events of July 1995 in that part of Bosnia as to ascertain what has long been known to have taken place.

Like I've mentioned, offering alternative views and explanations regarding Srebrenica are not helpful to either the victims' families or to us Serbs. What happened there was a great tragedy that all conscientious people condemn, and for which the perpetrators and organisers have to be caught and brought to justice. A number of whom already have been, and hopefully, there will be more.

Victor the article states “commission for locating missing persons believes”. They can believe anything they want including that Hitler loved dogs and consequently he was a nice person but believing something does not make it a FACT. .The figures that I quote are not mine or make believe but from a reliable source who commanded the Canadian army in the region, You want more Victor Note the dates?????

NEWSWEEK military correspondent, from syndicated column 8/24/95
Srebrenica fell to the Serbs on July 11th. According to Colonel Thomas
Karremans, the commander of a Dutch battalion deployed there, the Bosnian. Muslims had burned around 200 surrounding (Serbian) villages...

"British General Rose is complaining about the Bosnian Muslims in Gorazde; they exaggerated the number of dead and wounded.. War psychosis in a city under siege which, after a time, created a false
impression regarding the number of victims.."

Washington Times 21Feb 95. Andrew Borowiec GENEVA.. "Maj. Franchet,"
said to have served on the general staff of the U.N. peacekeepers in Bosnia. His book, "Useless Blue Helmets - What I Saw in Bosnia,".. states that the infamous May 27, 1992, mortar attack on a crowd outside a Sarajevo bakery that killed 17 civilians and wounded 150 others was carefully staged by the
Bosnian Muslim government

Independent, London, Oct 5, 1995.. Croatian forces committed widespread murder against elderly Serb non-combatants while looting and burning Serb homes..

«Victor, stop using collective guilt on me and my fellow Serbs.»

I am not a partisan of collective guilt but of collective conscience. I gladly see that you have attained this degree of conscience. Unfortunately, it is not the case with a majority of Serbs who deny the Srebrenica massacre and who see themselves as the victims.

Collective conscience would should all Serbs, as Patriarch Pavle so well expressed, that the «atrocities committed in the name of all Serbs haves tarnished the soul of the nation for generations.»

Last year, during the commemoration of the Srebrenica massacre, I heard on television Serb women and men in the RS saying: « We did to them what they did to us.»

This is an example of lack of collective conscience. And there are some on this forum also who presents the Serbs as the victims when they are the aggressors who killed more than 50 000 Muslim civilians in Bosnia during the summer of 1992. And for some strange reasons, most Serbs here contradict me on this fact acknowledged by Biljana Plavsic herself during her trial.

Be sure, my only point is to make sure that all Serbs recognized what they have done, as you do, and stop pointing at others.

"they are the aggressors who killed more than 50 000 Muslim civilians in Bosnia during the summer of 1992. And for some strange reasons, most Serbs here contradict me on this fact acknowledged by Biljana Plavsic herself during her trial. (Victor, Thursday, 21 June, 2007, 20:04)"
My dear friend Victor, even Tokaca, from whom you claim to get your numbers, contradicts you completely and utterly on this fact. He puts the total number of civilians on ALL SIDES at 39,684 for the ENTIRE war. Where does this magic imaginary number come from Victor? It is nice and round and I like the number 50,000 its sounds so important and impressive.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=06&dd=21&nav_category=123&nav_id=41958
There is no need to makes things seem worse then they are. We need to move forward from arguing about numbers and who did what to whom and focus on reconciliation.
BTW, I'm sure it just makes your blood boil that 30% of the civilian deaths according to the ICTY were Serbs, mirroring the population EXACTLY.
I did my share, I worked with Bosniak Humanitarian Groups and was publicly called a traitor on Serbian television for appearing in round table discussions with them on TV. I personally apologized to many Bosniaks for what my people did.
Precisely because of that my dear Victor, I have the MORAL AUTHORITY to tell you that you are dead wrong and only attempting to spread hate and divide the Southern Slavs, who are a good people and need to look forward and not to the past.
Why don't you wander off and find a real cause, how about Rwanda? There's a real instance of genocide, why aren't you pursuing that? Is an African life worth that much less then a European life to you Victor? Could you possibly be any more racist?