Del Ponte: Serbia improved cooperation

I wonder what position she'll have in the 'respected think tank' International Crisis Group when she leaves to join Louise Arbour, Wesley Clarke etc.
I am totally in favour of all who committed war crimes (whatever their ethnicity) being tried and convicted (if guilty), but not by this show trial kangaroo court, which is so clearly politically driven.
The established international and European courts should be in charge of such legal cases, along with the countries involved.
Many war crimes cases are now being heard in Belgrade.

According to me Serbia is still trying to buy time, without having to arrest the big fish. It's the same tactic they used some years ago, when they arrested first the Vukovar trio, then the generals. This tactic works in the short period, because now they will show their public opinion that they have restarted talks, but in the long term I think it's counterproducive, because the longer they wait, the harder it will be to arrest Mladic&Karadzic. Talks will restart, but they won't be finalized until Mladic is in Sheveningen, so I hope that they're planning to arrest him soon, to avoid further problems to Serbia.

«...kangaroo court, which is so clearly politically driven.»

Kate, could you explain why it is only the Serbs who call the ICTY a kangaroo Court? Many Muslims and Croats have also been sentencced at The Hague. It is a fact that a majority of Serbs have been sentenced, but don't forget that the majority of crimes and atrocities were ordered by Serb officers, paramilitaries, policemen, local militias... However, there are more war ciminals out there, of the three etnicities that will never be bothered by the Court.

For anyone interested in the kangaroo court at the Hague, there is an excellent book by Mr. John Laughland, "Travesty". He analyzes the "trial" of Slobodan Miloshevich but also goes beyond this particular case in an in-depth account of what a sad joke the ICTY is.

Milosevic's trial was too long. This was a major mistake by the Prosecutor. It took only a year for Saddam's trial, and should have been the same for Milosevic. What a loss of time!

Victor

How do you connect Saddam with this article? Saddam was ousted only when he didn't listen to the imperial masters (usa). Because when he WAS listening to them he was the greatest president in the world. And then in the end the usa - to show how powerful they are - they had the man hung. What a discrace!

The tribunal. To answer your question victor; only the Serbs are against it because only Serbs are being convicted. Serbs weren't the only ones who committed crimes, but it's because of the usa that we must pay the price for their war orchestrations.

There is so much injustice towards the Serbs it's really unbeliavable!

Ratko,

Why do you use the term 'The Serbs'? Those who are facing justice are Serbs who participated in crimes against the Bosniaks and the Croats. And they are not the only ones; Bosniaks and Croats are also facing justice, and you, as a very ordinary Serb, should be pleased. Do you associate yourself with Serbs like Karadzic, Mladic, Krstic, Obrenovic, Lukic, Arkan... to name these few who have face justice and have been sentenced for their crimes?

Ordinary Serbs should be pleased to see all those who have tarnished the image of Serbia facing justice for their crimes.

Ratko said “The tribunal. To answer your question victor; only the Serbs are against it because only Serbs are being convicted. Serbs weren't the only ones who committed crimes, but it's because of the usa that we must pay the price for their war orchestrations.”
This is a refraction on the proportion of the crimes commented against the communities my dear friend. Hence, large number of the war criminals are form Serbian community which is demonstrated by a prevailing evidence collected post 90s war which saw the break up of Yugoslavia.

"This is a refraction on the proportion of the crimes commented against the communities my dear friend. Hence, large number of the war criminals are form Serbian community… (M, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 17:30)"
M, that actually doesn't make any sense whatsoever. According to the ICTY itself, Serbs account for roughly 30% of the civilian deaths, which is very close to its population distribution. If 30% of the civilian deaths were Serbian victims, you would expect that 30% of the people at the Hague would be there for committing crimes against the Serbs. Feel free to go and check the numbers coming out of the ICTY in this respect, you'll see that I am correct.
For the most part, the articles I've seen about prosecutions against Croatians and Bosniaks were against those Bosniaks and Croatians that committed crimes against other Bosniaks and Croatians, while in reality, these crimes probably accounted for a minority of the crimes committed by those ethnicities.
Sadly, I think Victor's logic here is probably correct. Rather than punish the guilty based on the merits, they are playing a political game and punishing Serbia for its "non-cooperation", which obviously is very shameful to do for the victims of these crimes.

"Speaking about the Hague indictees still at large, Del Ponte said that her office “had no information about Radovan Karadžić’s whereabouts”.

I would expect to see Mickey Mouse riding a flying pig before Karadzic is ever on trial at the Hague.

The West will almost certainly settle for Mladic, Hadzic, and Zupljanin in return for EU membership.

I find attacks on the Hague unconvincing - if you don't like your heros going to the Hague maybe you should rethink your heros.

These people are being tried for digusting behavior - not for being hard-done-by and misunderstood.

The Hague was set up by the UN - it is a body with a job to do and while nothing is perfect, it does do a pretty good job.

Serbia's bad reputation in the world was linked to those thugs. Serbia will be well rid of them.

For the record, Croatia and Bosnia do not have shining reputations either, and in the case of Kosovo the KAlbanians have the distinction of being associated with the origin of the term ethnic cleansing.

This is not an issue of sides. It's about sorting rubbish.

To Victor:

Nasar Oric got less then 2 years and there was a lot of evidence against him! This is why the Serbs call this a Kangaroo Court, and Oric is just one example there are many more. By the way do you associate yourself with Nasar Oric? Is he a hero in your mind like Ceku?

If Oric has been condemned only two years, it's certainly that the proof against hum was not sufficient. To accuse a man is one thing, and to prove that he is guilty is another one. I am not a judge but I have confidence in the judges who are at The Hague. I know you don't like them because they are sending all your HEROES to jail!

I wonder what position she'll have in the 'respected think tank' International Crisis Group when she leaves to join Louise Arbour, Wesley Clarke etc.
I am totally in favour of all who committed war crimes (whatever their ethnicity) being tried and convicted (if guilty), but not by this show trial kangaroo court, which is so clearly politically driven.
The established international and European courts should be in charge of such legal cases, along with the countries involved.
Many war crimes cases are now being heard in Belgrade.

According to me Serbia is still trying to buy time, without having to arrest the big fish. It's the same tactic they used some years ago, when they arrested first the Vukovar trio, then the generals. This tactic works in the short period, because now they will show their public opinion that they have restarted talks, but in the long term I think it's counterproducive, because the longer they wait, the harder it will be to arrest Mladic&Karadzic. Talks will restart, but they won't be finalized until Mladic is in Sheveningen, so I hope that they're planning to arrest him soon, to avoid further problems to Serbia.

«...kangaroo court, which is so clearly politically driven.»

Kate, could you explain why it is only the Serbs who call the ICTY a kangaroo Court? Many Muslims and Croats have also been sentencced at The Hague. It is a fact that a majority of Serbs have been sentenced, but don't forget that the majority of crimes and atrocities were ordered by Serb officers, paramilitaries, policemen, local militias... However, there are more war ciminals out there, of the three etnicities that will never be bothered by the Court.

For anyone interested in the kangaroo court at the Hague, there is an excellent book by Mr. John Laughland, "Travesty". He analyzes the "trial" of Slobodan Miloshevich but also goes beyond this particular case in an in-depth account of what a sad joke the ICTY is.

Milosevic's trial was too long. This was a major mistake by the Prosecutor. It took only a year for Saddam's trial, and should have been the same for Milosevic. What a loss of time!

Victor

How do you connect Saddam with this article? Saddam was ousted only when he didn't listen to the imperial masters (usa). Because when he WAS listening to them he was the greatest president in the world. And then in the end the usa - to show how powerful they are - they had the man hung. What a discrace!

The tribunal. To answer your question victor; only the Serbs are against it because only Serbs are being convicted. Serbs weren't the only ones who committed crimes, but it's because of the usa that we must pay the price for their war orchestrations.

There is so much injustice towards the Serbs it's really unbeliavable!

Ratko,

Why do you use the term 'The Serbs'? Those who are facing justice are Serbs who participated in crimes against the Bosniaks and the Croats. And they are not the only ones; Bosniaks and Croats are also facing justice, and you, as a very ordinary Serb, should be pleased. Do you associate yourself with Serbs like Karadzic, Mladic, Krstic, Obrenovic, Lukic, Arkan... to name these few who have face justice and have been sentenced for their crimes?

Ordinary Serbs should be pleased to see all those who have tarnished the image of Serbia facing justice for their crimes.

Ratko said “The tribunal. To answer your question victor; only the Serbs are against it because only Serbs are being convicted. Serbs weren't the only ones who committed crimes, but it's because of the usa that we must pay the price for their war orchestrations.”
This is a refraction on the proportion of the crimes commented against the communities my dear friend. Hence, large number of the war criminals are form Serbian community which is demonstrated by a prevailing evidence collected post 90s war which saw the break up of Yugoslavia.

"This is a refraction on the proportion of the crimes commented against the communities my dear friend. Hence, large number of the war criminals are form Serbian community… (M, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 17:30)"
M, that actually doesn't make any sense whatsoever. According to the ICTY itself, Serbs account for roughly 30% of the civilian deaths, which is very close to its population distribution. If 30% of the civilian deaths were Serbian victims, you would expect that 30% of the people at the Hague would be there for committing crimes against the Serbs. Feel free to go and check the numbers coming out of the ICTY in this respect, you'll see that I am correct.
For the most part, the articles I've seen about prosecutions against Croatians and Bosniaks were against those Bosniaks and Croatians that committed crimes against other Bosniaks and Croatians, while in reality, these crimes probably accounted for a minority of the crimes committed by those ethnicities.
Sadly, I think Victor's logic here is probably correct. Rather than punish the guilty based on the merits, they are playing a political game and punishing Serbia for its "non-cooperation", which obviously is very shameful to do for the victims of these crimes.

"Speaking about the Hague indictees still at large, Del Ponte said that her office “had no information about Radovan Karadžić’s whereabouts”.

I would expect to see Mickey Mouse riding a flying pig before Karadzic is ever on trial at the Hague.

The West will almost certainly settle for Mladic, Hadzic, and Zupljanin in return for EU membership.

I find attacks on the Hague unconvincing - if you don't like your heros going to the Hague maybe you should rethink your heros.

These people are being tried for digusting behavior - not for being hard-done-by and misunderstood.

The Hague was set up by the UN - it is a body with a job to do and while nothing is perfect, it does do a pretty good job.

Serbia's bad reputation in the world was linked to those thugs. Serbia will be well rid of them.

For the record, Croatia and Bosnia do not have shining reputations either, and in the case of Kosovo the KAlbanians have the distinction of being associated with the origin of the term ethnic cleansing.

This is not an issue of sides. It's about sorting rubbish.

To Victor:

Nasar Oric got less then 2 years and there was a lot of evidence against him! This is why the Serbs call this a Kangaroo Court, and Oric is just one example there are many more. By the way do you associate yourself with Nasar Oric? Is he a hero in your mind like Ceku?

If Oric has been condemned only two years, it's certainly that the proof against hum was not sufficient. To accuse a man is one thing, and to prove that he is guilty is another one. I am not a judge but I have confidence in the judges who are at The Hague. I know you don't like them because they are sending all your HEROES to jail!