Wisner: U.S. will keep Kosovo promise

President Bush is working to get others on board? Here is the problem. The world hates Bush. Especially most of Europe. Sure a few countries will support him on this, but they probably have limitations such as bypassing the UN. Therefore, the US is probably thinking that if Russia vetoes, then it will get other European countries to support the plan. However, like I said, not everyone will want to do that. And they will regard Bush's arrogance and complete disregard for international law as being more of a problem. So the US may work really hard to secure other nations to back Plan B (Which is recognizing independence after the veto) but I don't think Bush will be able to get as many people on board as he thinks. Once again, this will probably end up like Iraq. They worked hard to get support. They got a few countries like the UK and some nations like Bulgaria and Romania to back them on that, but in the end, the EU was split and the US had to go alone on it. Kosovo isn't an invasion. It's simply a diplomatic situation. Therefore I don't think the US can go alone on this. Sure they can recognize Kosovo on their own, but unlikely if the EU is split.

In the end, this is more empty talk from the Bush administration. They've failed at EVERYTHING. Here in the US, the Bush administration is considered a complete and utter failure. Why does anyone think things will be different this time? Has the Bush administration ever been able to get a wide range of countries to support it on anything? No. So Kosovo won't be any different.

All I know is Russia is probably having a wild time with this. They are paying the US back for embarassing it back in 1999. Good for them!

Yes, Wisner good tactic, keep them "believing" that they will get what they want while time flies by - after all we are now into the 9th year of this so called "promise" that will never be!

Not even mention of a breakthrough at the July talks - opps are you hoping it will slip off the agenda! Will there be other more serious issues that will be the priority - Iraq surge again maybe? Afghanistan? Darfur? Iran? Middle East? Something anything else?

I thought Bush said NOW ("I didn't say deadline. Did I say deadline? Ok then I meant it!") but that is good you've got out of that one by suggesting once more it will happen as did Holdbrooke over 8 years before. However, Wisner you as Holbrooke before you knew it was not and is not your promise to make and thus is undeliverable.

I wonder if Wisner can beat the 8 years that was set by Holbrooke on this "promise" that is undeliveable & make it last into the next century....? I thnik he could beat Holbrooke's time - 12 years from now is my guess before we get the promise again!. Anyone else have any guess on the time before this "promise" is mentioned again?

The only certainty is what is valid and has been agreed by the US even after the "promise" was made namely 1244. This as Putin states;

"Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,"
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985
Wisner & Bush can huff and puff but the reality is it is all just bluster and hot air with little substance - seems the US will settle on Status Quo indefinetly.

Not even the old UK rock band Status Quo had so many comebacks!!!

well, US-american governments are not quite well known for keeping promises...

and since there is still international law...,

Mr.Wisner I would like to see how you wanna keep your "promises"

What about fulfilling the promise made when signing up to Resolution 1244?

A part of me wonders if maybe all this delay is the Americans hoping the Serbs will rise up and start another war. Then the Americans can use that as some kind of "excuse" to illegally bomb them again and lie about how it was to stop a "genocide" even though there was no genocide. What was the number Clinton used? 100,000 dead? I think the Americans are hoping the Serbs use force in order to paint them as the bad guys again. Then it'll be easier to steal Kosovo away. Sadly, for the Americans that is, the Serbs are using only diplomacy and international law to fight for Kosovo. And the Americans don't know how to deal with that.

As I said above, America has made one mistake after another. It has thumbed its nose at everyone and has carried on like some bully, out of control and arrogant. The Europeans have no patience with Bush. They have no respect for him. I'm sure many of them are sick of his arrogance and the threat of KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT NOW type of rhetoric is not helping their cause.

This article is very interesting...

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/mb/059.shtml

Blacky,

the US arn't counting on the UK - we have a new PM - Gordon Brown (Tony BLiar is gone) in the next week so expect a cooling off of the atlantic relationship with the UK turning to the EU viewpoint of UN resolutions and laws must be upheld first and not ignored.

Kate & Jovan, I think the Chinese presidency of the UN SC in July will be pushing the point regarding fullfilment of 1244 - the US have quietly ignored the fact that their own self imposed deadline of May has been and gone and the last ditch G8 has too.

Now it looks like we will get 1244 being centre stage in July - like the EU said what ever is deceided in the UN is key and the only thing valid and conirmed is 1244 so the UN had best sort it out and correct the shortcomings!

I would like to refer to Blacky views on the Kosovo situation. Blacky is putting much emphasis on the adversarial relationship shared by Russia and the USA, while doing this Blacky disregards Kosovo’s interests. Blacky also implies that the Kosovo situation is some sort of game where Russia may gain some leverage over America, I consider these comments to be insulting to the people of Kosovo.

Furthermore commenting on the Kosovo situation I believe that independence is the only solution. The former countries that formed Yugoslavia are all independently run countries and Kosovo will not settle for no less. We must also not forget that America is the most powerful country in the world and if it wants to do something it will!

Yes, who cares what the Americans have to say? Everything looks rosy for Serbia. Albanians trust Bush, but if he doesn't deliver than they have Putin, who has said that he will veto any solution that does not have the agreement of both sides. This means that he will veto autonomy proposal if the Albanians do not accept it.

The United States is making a terrible mistake. We have been supporting organized crime in Kosovo for the past 8 years as this 1999 report clearly states.

http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/fr033199.htm

The Ahtisaari plan contains three elements. One part says that the solution should be called "supervised independence". The second part revokes 1244, which mandates substantial autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia. The third part is the positive proposal, which in essence means that Kosovo becomes a EU protectorate. As seems likely, Russia will veto parts 1 and 2, but let 3 through. This means that the end game will be "Kosovo a EU protectorate within Serbia". This is the default option that K-Albanians are facing. If they want something better than this, if they want something more than having EU-crats lord over them, they must start talking with the Serbs.

I fully agree with R.D, the US is the most powerful country in the world and in the end the Europeans will just have to follow the US lead.

I am living in the US and am a US citizen but my heart has roots in Serbia. I am a Viet Nam vet. I see the ridiculous belligerant attitude that the US govt has. It is always sticking its nose into other countries business. It has NO RIGHT pushing anything onto Serbia including that discracful 1999 bombing. Bush does NOT have the backing of the American people-most of whom do not like the idea of the US interfering with other countries workings. Bush has only, I think, about a 25% or so support from the American public. I understand why the world hates Bush. Most Americans hate Bush too. He does not listen to the American people and carries on like a dictator. It is up to Serbia and Kosovo to come to a mutualy acceptible agreement and NOT up to Bush or the UK or the European Union! I am getting fed up with bullying nations trying to force their ideas onto other countries cause they think they know what is best.

Just keep fighting, Serbs. Bush is becoming nothing in America. 75% of the USA hates him. He is one of those people who keeps pushing his propaganda out of ego. Many things; Iraq, illegal immigration, etc including Kosovo will converge to ruin him. He has turned the US into Mao's paper tiger.

Oh Please Nick! The Imperial American Eagle is starting to look decidedly tarnished. And how much do you think Kosovo means to the US in the whole scheme of current world events? Time to become good little citizens of the country you live in just like the rest of us have to.

What does the US mean by promise? Promise for what, and by whom? Was it a promise made by Clinton and Co.? Isn't a promise usually a compensation for something? Such as to a child, "You play nice and I promise you some candy". Or, "Sorry dear, I have to work late, but I promise we'll go out tomorrow". Apromise is a reward for some action, kept or unkept. Wonder what the action Clinton wanted from the KLA, that he made this promise? And Bush is trying to fulfill for him. Somethinh smells in DC, as usual.

HAH we promise to keep our promise (if it passes in the UN). Such a cut off sentence.

AND ANOTHER THING

Why do they keep telling the albanians to hold of until the vote? HOLD WHAT OFF? More importantly why not hold it off for good? States are clearly promoting terrorist attacks and its not getting publicised.

Tom: "As seems likely, Russia will veto parts 1 and 2, but let 3 through."

Sorry Tom, Ahtisaari package is not some sort of a buffet, where you pick and choose what you like and leave out the rest.You either take the whole package or go home hungry.
EU-crats lording is way better than living under the Serbian boot.

who cares what the US says they are boring and getting weaker day by day they got eternal problems and problems in other countries soon they will have no say and Russia and china will be the only superpowers soon.

Blacky,
Just because you are badmouthing my great country, the US - where apparently you live - will not help Serbia. If you are so unhappy here why are you not moving back to Serbia?

Blacky, you touched on something that makes sense when you said > "maybe the USA is using these delays to have the Serbian people rise up again so that NATO can bomb them again." However, I think in fact what Bush is doing is the the other way around, he is waiting for the Albania's to rise up and attack Serbs and NATO, that would be his face saving out! He could then say to the Albanins we tried everything we could to get you independence and then you bit the hand that fed you, he can then DROP the push for independence in some face saving way. The dangerous thing about this theory is that surely a number of lives will be lost on all sides Albanian, Serbian and NATO. A Bush sacrifice in getting out of the corner he painted himself in.

The Serbian-Americans are very active here today and try to make believe that about Kosovo most Americans think like them. Nothing is further from the truth.

Adrian Grashi,

you are going to get broad autonomy, if you can add one and one than you are also capable of understanding that there won´t be something like living "under serbian boots".

you should stop with that nonsense, the issue is too serious for this kind of argumentation.

We Albanians are going to take what belongs to us, with or without help... though it is funny how yoú Serbs still live in fancy and think USA took it from you (and your total disregard of the Albanian factor in this "game" says a lot about you)

"We must also not forget that America is the most powerful country in the world and if it wants to do something it will" RD. RD, it is that type of thinking that has caused most of the world to believe the U.S. is a belligerent, out of control "your either for us or against us" megalomaniacal power. The more power a country controls the more responsibility (for proper use of) that power it has. The world hates us/U.S. for good reason and comments like yours don't help! Even most Canadians believe that the US is the biggest threat to world peace and stability, and that coming from our closest neighbor and ally. Might for Right!

Any delaying tactic from Serbs or Russians on Kosova's independence will not work. Why? Because the US has made up its mind. They now see Kosova as part of their long-term national interest in the clash with Russia in South East Europe. Serbia has firmly allied itself with Russia and that is very good news for Prishtina. The reason why the Americans are impatient for an independent Kosova is because they know that time will not change anything. The Democrats are even more determined on this issue than Bush. So, dear Serb analysts, what would it take to change this state of affairs? I leave it to you to work out.

Kosovo is a part of Serbia, so framing this issue into some kind of Yugoslav context (e.g. Yugoslavia's republics all got their independence, and so should Kosovo) does not help. Kosovo is a Serbian province, not a Yugoslav republic. You cannot apply the same rules.

Serbia has nothing to do with Yugoslavia, and neither does Kosovo. Yugoslavia fell apart completely - there are 6 new countries on the territory of Tito's Yugoslavia. End of story.

Taking Kosovo away from Serbia is a process of breaking up a sovereign, independent European country that is also a member of the United Nations and a signatory to the Helsinki Final Act. (http://www.seerecon.org/region/sp/helsinki.htm).

Adrian wrote:
"EU-crats lording is way better than living under the Serbian boot."

You will eat those words one day my friend......

Marti's plan satisfies the West, beauracrats, and the status quo, but my bigger concern is on the ground...

Independence happened in '99, it will happen tomorrow, and it will happen in a few months again...Nothing will change but your perception... and financially, you'll be back in the same hole again...

I believe the open door towards your independence is through the opened front door of the Serbian household...

Do not think that she won't let you walk through...

She just doesn't like US boots treading over her carpet.

(What i'm trying to convey is that outside interference has always been hard to swallow, and that Pristina-Belgrade dialogue is more pallatable)..

Look for independence via Marti's plan, and US promises, and the next generation will repeat itself..

Good luck Wisner, but we have in black and white what you know is the reality. Last November you had an interview with B92 which is available in insight;
Wisner: Delaying Kosovo solution serves nobody's interest
http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?yyyy=2006&mm=11&nav_id=37724
To quote;
B92: Let’s go back to the recently adopted Serbian constitution. What is your view of the Kosovo status being defined as that of essential autonomy?

Wisner: Kosovo - I know this is a difficult issue - but Kosovo in 1999 was defined under UN Security Council resolution 1244 as an issue that would become responsibility of the international community to settle. It is from that authority that the United Nations has organized president Ahtisaari’s negotiations, with the support of the Contact Group. It is from the authority of 1244 which is derived from the Security Council, that the decision on the future status of Kosovo will be reached.

So you are only too aware that any bypassing of the International community process i.e. UN SC will be equivalent to the attempts of undermining 1244 and the very basis for the legal process of determining the status. If the US prompt the ethnic-Albanians to Illegally declare and the US Illegally recognise then 1244 becomes void and we are in a position prior to 1244 in which case all NATO troops are without UN mandate and are acting ILLEGALLY while Serbia will still have sovereignity and will have every right to ensure security of course it will invoke the UN process first who will be obliged to void any such illegal actions by both the ethnic-Albanians and the US!!!!

Checkmate Wisner keep the ethnic-Albanians placid with promises that you know only too well are undeliverable and huff and puff as you might but you guys formulated and signed the very agreement that enshrines Serbias sovereignity as much as you'd wish things were different your caught in you own trap!! Mayb you should swollow your pride and ask the Russians for help out of your own trap!

It is obvious that there will not be a UNSC Resolution granting Kosovo independence so if the US goes ahead and recognizes it anyway(Bush is arrogant enough to do it)then the US must be prepared to pour in tens of billions of dollars into Kosovo or allow for 2 million Albanians to emmigrate to the US.The Europeans have backed themselves into a corner by requiring a UN resolution when it is obvious that Russia has nothing to lose and a lot to gain by vetoing it.

You know, it's just fascinating to see Serb Americans kick Bush @ now, although, when he ran in his 1st election and 2nd, Serbs were gung ho on Bush and his party and the neoconservative philosophy.

What serbs missed in their neo conserv. articles was the point that they supported US going to war with the russians and their sympathizers and all they represented. THe Neo conserv. not only push thru a program of war with Islam, but their second agenda is war with with russia and their sympathizers. More than any other group, they supported clinton's war on Serbia.

Wisner, Fried and Burns don't have a clue what they are dealing with. Those three are only giving false hope to the ethnic Albanians living in the Serbian province instead of giving real hope of living peacefully with Serbs and others in a multi-ethnic Kosovo and Metohija.
Shame on you three.
You three guys must realise that international law is bigger, stronger, legally correct which puts words of all three of you into a "puff of smoke".
Let Serbs and ethnic Albanians live in neighbourly peace, and this will take some time to sort through, but God willing, it can and will happen.
Remember the words of wisdom, "better the devil you know". Sort it out, at least you know who you are living next to, on the other hand a foreign power with arrogance telling you what to do, how and when to do it is another story. Wake-up.
The Russians do not want to live in your house but the Americans do. The Russians only want you to work it out between yourselves.
The Americans are saying I'll give you Kosovo and then I control it.

To what extent will my government (American) keep its 'promise'? We surely do not believe in a strategic necessity of 2 million people who are not law abiding, western, or developed, do we?

My government is willing to make some diplomatic moves maybe but when that fails where does it go?

Kate, Jovan Cvele,Capernicus,

Regarding promises - such statements by Wisner illuminate the disingenuous nature of US policy and the "negotiations" under Ahtisaari. Wisner himself was appointed in Dec. 2005 on to assist Ahtisaari in obtainig agreement not the force imposition of a undelverable promise!If you read the following line of the press release;
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/58288.htm
"The United States encourages the parties to engage in these talks in the spirit of good faith and with a willingness to reach agreement on a broad range of issues important to Kosovo’s future. With our Contact Group partners and in support of the U.N. Special Envoy’s efforts, the United States will seek to secure a settlement on Kosovo’s status that promotes security for all peoples of the Balkans and advances the region’s integration with Euro-Atlantic institutions"

- Spirit of good faith - indeed. So let the talks begin in the "Spirit of good faith" without preconcieved ideas of promises made or else face the ridicule of being openly dishonest and as such untrustworthy!!!

The United States shouldn't be promising to give the Albanians territory that isn't its to give. If United States wants to reward the Albanians for spending the last eight years ethnically cleansing Kosovo then it should reward them its own territory. Perhaps George Bush can give the Albanians New Jersey instead, I hear there's an Army base there that some of them have had their eye on.

May I sugest a solution for problems in Balkans.

I think that solution to separate in peace with serbs and Macedonians and Montenegro is:
North of river Iber to be part of Serbia exept Lake Gazivoda has to be part of Albanians because this is very important for South part of Kosova People in Sanxhak we have to ask them where they want to be in Kosova, Serbia, or Bosna, Serbian-Bosna has to be part of Serbia to. Preseva Waley has to be part of Kosova-Albanians. West and Wesst North of Macedonia has to be part of Kosova. South of Montenegro (Ulcinj, Tuzi, Plav etc has to be part of Albania and Kosova. This is the solution and I think this is good solution. After that we could live in peace with serbs Macedonians, Montenegro, Bosna will take his part in Sanxhak and serbia will take his part in Bosna and thats it.

we will declare once again our INDEPENDENCE and we will defend it ! with full support of USA and NATO .

we will declare once again our INDEPENDENCE and we will defend it ! with full support of USA and NATO .
(Lorik Jashari, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 11:23)

- when exactly ? today perhaps, maybe tomorrow, next week, month, year, decade, century, millenia....when exactly????

I ask because as Putin put it;
“Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,”
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985

Jovan and Pijetro,

You arguments show how out of touch with reality you are. Maybe it's because you haven't been forced to walk 50 miles to a muddy refugee camp, with your belongings in your back, leaving your house on fire and not knowing whether in the next checkpoint you sister will be raped, or your mother will be killed, or your child will loose a limb or two by the Serbians in military uniform. You don't know whether you'll die of hunger or freeze to death, or you'll be simply shot, but you know very well who wants your existance terminated and why.

You Serbs on this site seem to have no idea how strong is the Albanian determination to free Kosova from any kind of a vestige of the Serbian yoke. To you this could be a game, a pingpong of insults you trade on the internet which you might even enjoy, but to us this is about our daily life, about our future and we WILL have a country of our own that is free and strong and independent and respected. We, and only we, will be the ones to have the last word about our own future, neither Serbia nor Russia can impose on it. For someone that lives and works in Belgrade or Moscow, nothing will change in their routines if Kosova goes this or that way, but to us this is about everything that matters in life. Yeah, you are doing all you can possibly do to obstruct, to starve Kosova economically, to keep its people in misery and unemployment and uncertainty. We WILL plant our flag right in the middle of Prishtina and declare our independence.

Adrian....

I'm not out of touch...
Poke a hole in my statement, and i will appreciate your comments...

Otherwise, all i hear are emotional responses to practical matters.

But since your on the topics of misery and deportation, perhaps we should get Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Moslems on the same comment page...Whatdya think??

"We WILL plant our flag right in the middle of Prishtina and declare our independence."

Again, my previous posts seem to repeat your statements..I don't know what you're reading.

think that solution to separate in peace with serbs and Macedonians and Montenegro is:
North of river Iber to be part of Serbia exept Lake Gazivoda has to be part of Albanians because this is very important for South part of Kosova People in Sanxhak we have to ask them where they want to be in Kosova, Serbia, or Bosna, Serbian-Bosna has to be part of Serbia to. Preseva Waley has to be part of Kosova-Albanians. West and Wesst North of Macedonia has to be part of Kosova. South of Montenegro (Ulcinj, Tuzi, Plav etc has to be part of Albania and Kosova. This is the solution and I think this is good solution. After that we could live in peace with serbs Macedonians, Montenegro, Bosna will take his part in Sanxhak and serbia will take his part in Bosna and thats it.
(Beni, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 10:08)

The solution is not infringe on the sovereign nations land of Serbia, Montenegro or FYROM for that matter.

Wow, great job B92 at reducing my post like that. Did I use too strong of a language? Even if, so what! I didn't attack anyone personally, or used obcenities, and neither was I being racist like many here that are on a regular basis. But it's ok, you can erase my words here, but you will never be able to erase my thoughts and my feelings, and I'm sure there's a huge amount of people in Kosova that feel just the same.

Pijetro, thanks to B92's editing, you just read part of my post ... however. You stated: "I believe the open door towards your independence is through the opened front door of the Serbian household... Do not think that she won't let you walk through... "

What exactely makes you think that? I make judgements based on what I read from the public statements of your country's politicians, and they say that Kosova will never be allowed to walk through. So, how you come up with that assessment? Why didn't she let us walk through in the eighties, or the nineties, when we tried so hard to negotiate with you, and even bent over backwards to accomodate you to the point of becoming ridiculous? Remember the time when Croatia was asking us to enter the war, yet we gave you time to negotiate. And you used the opportunity to get ready to slaughter us. You had about a year and a half to make proposals and come up with ideas and you didn't, hell you even had the past eight years, you could've pulled aside Ceku or Rugova at any time and come up with a face-saving solution; if it was so easy to just walk through, why pull everybody through the mud?

mr gushi are you talking about the serbs you clensed from kosovo in the last 8 years.and about planting a flag in the middle of pristina and declaring indapendents keep dreaming

Dear Mr. Gashi,

I am a Serb and I do feel genuinely sorry for the horrors that your people went through during the 1990s. We did not treat you right, Serbian state was arrogant and racist towards Albanians.I hope that all those Serbs who committed crimes against Albanians face the justice.

Having said that, if we are ever to live in peace, I think that it would be important that you also see what Albanian extremists did to Kosovo Serbs. Most of them are ethnically cleansed, many of them also had to run for their lives (just like you had to), and -- unlike you -- most of them cannot go back home. Many Kosovo cities which for centuries had important Serbian communities are now Serb-free.

The independence that you desire is based on ethnic cleansing of your Serbian neighbours, because of their ethnicity.

Mr. Gashi wrote:
"I make judgements based on what I read from the public statements of your country's politicians, and they say that Kosova will never be allowed to walk through. So, how you come up with that assessment?"

Mr. Gashi my friend..
I come up with that assessment simply for the fact, that Serbians will not send their children this time to fight..
You haven't learned by now..
Politician's say things to get re-elected and paid dearly.
They do not wallow through the mud like we do..

On that note, you need to stop treating Serbs as some sort of aristocrats..
They are no different then you. Wheher they realize it or not, you're both in the same small fishbowl, and the US and Russia are feeding fish food called lies and deceipt...

Divide and Conquer my friend...

That's what's happened..

BTW, i totally agree with Djordje..The Serbs need to rid themselves of generalization and predjudices. It doesn't help anybody.

Djordje, I also hope that those Serbs (or Albanians for that matter) that committed crimes will face justice. However judging from the charade that has become the arrest of war criminals in Serbia, I won't be holding my breath. It's clear that the Serbian political class pretty much shares the same ideology as those criminals, and are working towards the same objectives - as much as the present conditions allow - and just the same they have based their strategy upon the pain and suffering of other people, that quite fittingly they do not consider their own. The present Serbian strategy is based on delaying and stalling as much as possible, and hoping that the difficult economic conditions will make Albanians revolt, they hope that Albanians and Serbs will start fighting in Kosova, apparently they do not care much about Kosovar Serbs either. Is a dirty game of brinkmanship played right out of Milosevic's book. Nothing constructive, democratic or European in their attitude, which is rather imperialistic in nature.

"Having said that, if we are ever to live in peace, I think that it would be important that you also see what Albanian extremists did to Kosovo Serbs. Most of them are ethnically cleansed, many of them also had to run for their lives (just like you had to), and -- unlike you -- most of them cannot go back home."

Had it not been for NATO's action, which many of you resent deeply to this day, we could not have gone home either, and that's why you hate it so much. All politicians in Kosova, have denounced publicly any attacks on the Serbs, especially after riots of March 2004. The govt has even paid out from the poor budget of Kosova to rebuilt their houses and sponsored programs for their return. But we can't bring them back by force, if they don't want to return; and for as long they hold propagandistic value for Belgrade, my prediction is that they won't return, actually their chances of returning will be much greater when Kosova becomes independent, and Belgrade's hostility cools down. And how about Albanians that were ethnically cleansed out of north of Kosova and Mitrovica, why can't they return home? Why is Serbia breaking the international law and the resolution 1244, by sponsoring ILLEGAL parallel structures outside of legitimate Kosovar institutions?

"The independence that you desire is based on ethnic cleansing of your Serbian neighbors"

The independence that we desire is based first and foremost on the will of the people of Kosova to be independent. Is not simply because of the crimes Serbia committed in the 90's; the reason why you lost Kosova is because Kosova does not want to be in Serbia, it did not want in 1912, not in the 1920's, not in the 1960's, 80's, 90's, and definitively not today or in the future. The only way Serbia has kept Kosova was through conquering and re-conquering it time and again and through sheer application of martial law. There has not been one single generation of Kosovar Albanians that has grown up in peace, during the whole time that Kosova was under Serbia. Serbs and Albanians are totally different people, not only by ethnic and cultural heritage, but also by language, alphabet, religion, mentality, historical perspective and expectations for the future. What reason should keep these two people in the same state, that wasn't sufficient enough to keep the rest of the Slavic people together? Why was it so easy to let Montenegro go, with whom you have so much more in common, plus the Serbian minority there is bigger - both in percentage and sheer number - than the Serbian minority in Kosova. Monuments? Give me a break. Italians can visit roman ruins all over Europe, without asking to have them as part of Italy. I think you can learn to do the same.

To: Zoran

I am Canadien and I believe that the biggest threat in the world is America. Can anyone tell me any good that has come out of American war efforts since World War 2? They lost in Korea, they lost in Cuba (Bay of Pigs) they lost in Vietnam, they made a HUGE mess in South America in the 70's, they were clobbered in Somalia. They are losing in Afghanistan and certainly losing in Iraq. So much political interference and War from America. What good have they done in the world so far? And I don't mean the citizens of America who have always showed up financially to help countries less fortunate then they are. I am speaking of the American Government? What have they done? I cannot believe that the Albanins are looking up to America as their heroes, the only country in the world and history to have used nuclear bombs on civilians in populated cites? Not once but twice.

Adrian, at least we agree on something. In general,it does not make much sense to assume that all Serbs hate Albanians. Some do, others do not, just as some Albanians hate Serbs and others don't. We are not all the same and you are not all the same.

I agree that Albanians should also have the right to return to Mitrovica. As for the Serbs returning to Kosovo, well I think that in many cases somebody else now lives in their homes, especially in Pristina? Plus, in March 2004 you also know how many Albanians participated in the riots and that the police force failed to protect the remaining Serbs. I can imagine that there is obstruction by some Serbian politicians, but
you are ignoring the Albanian part of the responsibility for the miserable fate of these people.

"Kosova does not want to be in Serbia"

This is certainly correct as far as Kosovo Albanians go. (Although I understand that in the 70s the Kosova Albanians were generally happy, although they were part of Serbia.) What about Kosovo Serbs --including those who are ethnically cleansed -- doesn't your Kosova/o include them too?

"Why was it so easy to let Montenegro go...?"

Montenegro was a Yugoslav republic and thus, unlike provinces, had a right to secession. If the right to secession was simultaneously granted to Kosovo Albanians, Mitrovica Serbs, Republika Srpska and Presevo Albanians, you would be surprised at the number of Serbs who would find such a deal acceptable.

What makes us so angry is that your territorial autonomy (Kosovo/a) can simply secede at will, and our territorial autonomy (Srpska) is facing the threat of abolishment.

Djordje,

"I agree that Albanians should also have the right to return to Mitrovica. As for the Serbs returning to Kosovo, well I think that in many cases somebody else now lives in their homes, especially in Pristina? Plus, in March 2004 you also know how many Albanians participated in the riots and that the police force failed to protect the remaining Serbs. I can imagine that there is obstruction by some Serbian politicians, but you are ignoring the Albanian part of the responsibility for the miserable fate of these people."

Well, if somebody is living in somebody's else house - occupying it by force that is - they have to move out. And since the Serbian army and police destroyed so many houses and property, both personal and communal, it should pay reparations to these people to have their houses rebuilt and property restored, because those were state organs that inflicted the damages. People that lost their dear ones should receive compensation, and at minimum they should have access to the state archives to know what exactly happened to their relatives, who gave the orders, who pulled the trigger, and the criminals should face justice without exception. There are more than 2000 people still missing, their families deserve to have at least their bones, and a grave on which they can cry and remember their loved ones. I don't believe for one second that the state of Serbia doesn't know where the bodies are, there was a chain of command and report, I'm certain there is in Belgrade detailed information about each one of them, and that the government of Serbia is not releasing that information for political reasons, and that is a crime in itself. Across the region, monuments of Albanian culture were destroyed, such as the house of the League of Prizren, nearly half the mosques and many catholic churches were burned down, thousands of archaeological artifacts were taken and are still in Belgrade, Kosova's central and local archives were emptied and taken in Serbia, including property deeds, birth and police reports, many precious and antique books were taken from libraries across the country. Those belong to the people of Kosova, it's their history, heritage and culture and they should be returned back.

I don't ignore or deny the Albanian responsibility during the March 2004 riots. As I said, Albanian politicians across the board denounced them publicly, and are paying to have the damages of the houses and churches restored. I have personally met with Serbs that were affected in 2004 and told them face to face that I was sorry for what happened to them. It's unfortunate that in riots like these, it's not the criminals who get punished, but the innocent who can't protect themselves. And I'm also sorry for the Albanians that died during that time, and there were more Albanians(11) than Serbs (8) that died in 2004, including those three boys drowning on the river.

I try to understand what happened, why so many people took revenge in their own hands. Apparently the police and NATO were caught unprepared and by surprise and Kosova Police had still their hands tied by the internationals, they couldn't even go on patrol without being shadowed by international police, sometimes even without a weapon. UNMIK itself had been living in its own bubble, out of touch with people, and obviously didn't understand their frustration and still doesn't understand it. Where there is no justice, frustration and anger amounts. What happened in Kosova, is that the Serbian army and police killed, burned, expelled and raped with impunity and simply left when its business was done, leaving the whole country and people ravaged in its wake. Local Serbs got inside their villages with barbed wire and NATO tanks, and the crimes that happened were never addressed at the local level, justice was simply not done and the intls were not interested in it. They simply brushed it over and split the blame arithmetically, in many cases treating Albanians with hostility and suspicion! The Serbs never admitted to their crimes and they still amazingly, in overwhelming numbers don't admit to it, as it is evident in this board, they instead blame Albanians! That's like rubbing salt to the wounds. ICTY with some never ending struggle and theatrics indicted Milosevic and a few of his top generals, but Serbia had nearly 70 thousands troops in the province, most of whom took part directly in the atrocities against civilians, what kind of justice is the one that gives these killers a blank slate for what they have done. Frustration and anger and humiliation and the feeling that your life values less than that of your killers, are the least one feels in these circumstances. There was not a single Albanian life that wasn't affected by the conflict, and these feelings blanket the entire population on a very personal level. People have things in their hearts, that they will only tell their gravestones. UNMIK with its array of people of different colors and cultures from Africa to the North Pole is simply too incompetent and insensitive to understand these issues and frustrations, most of them come on assignment for a certain amount of time, live the good life and lecture endlessly about trivial things and when they leave they don't think twice about what they left behind. Witness, Abdul Aziz on this board, and how rude and insensitive he is towards people he is supposed to serve, wasting probably his office time not to solve issues in Kosova but telling us whether we came from illyrians or the marcians; what a joke!

"What makes us so angry is that your territorial autonomy (Kosovo/a) can simply secede at will, and our territorial autonomy (Srpska) is facing the threat of abolishment."

Per your analogy, Kosova was autonomous in Yugo, Srpska wasn't. And now is its own entity in a federation with its own institutions, police and army. We have sizable minorities too in Macedonia and Montenegro, but we can only dream if they had the same, or even half of the same rights that Srpska has in Bosnia. We would be very happy if they actually had the same rights that Serbs would be having with Ahtisaari plan in Kosova. Even when Kosova becomes independent, believe me, you'll have it much better overall.

President Bush is working to get others on board? Here is the problem. The world hates Bush. Especially most of Europe. Sure a few countries will support him on this, but they probably have limitations such as bypassing the UN. Therefore, the US is probably thinking that if Russia vetoes, then it will get other European countries to support the plan. However, like I said, not everyone will want to do that. And they will regard Bush's arrogance and complete disregard for international law as being more of a problem. So the US may work really hard to secure other nations to back Plan B (Which is recognizing independence after the veto) but I don't think Bush will be able to get as many people on board as he thinks. Once again, this will probably end up like Iraq. They worked hard to get support. They got a few countries like the UK and some nations like Bulgaria and Romania to back them on that, but in the end, the EU was split and the US had to go alone on it. Kosovo isn't an invasion. It's simply a diplomatic situation. Therefore I don't think the US can go alone on this. Sure they can recognize Kosovo on their own, but unlikely if the EU is split.

In the end, this is more empty talk from the Bush administration. They've failed at EVERYTHING. Here in the US, the Bush administration is considered a complete and utter failure. Why does anyone think things will be different this time? Has the Bush administration ever been able to get a wide range of countries to support it on anything? No. So Kosovo won't be any different.

All I know is Russia is probably having a wild time with this. They are paying the US back for embarassing it back in 1999. Good for them!

Yes, Wisner good tactic, keep them "believing" that they will get what they want while time flies by - after all we are now into the 9th year of this so called "promise" that will never be!

Not even mention of a breakthrough at the July talks - opps are you hoping it will slip off the agenda! Will there be other more serious issues that will be the priority - Iraq surge again maybe? Afghanistan? Darfur? Iran? Middle East? Something anything else?

I thought Bush said NOW ("I didn't say deadline. Did I say deadline? Ok then I meant it!") but that is good you've got out of that one by suggesting once more it will happen as did Holdbrooke over 8 years before. However, Wisner you as Holbrooke before you knew it was not and is not your promise to make and thus is undeliverable.

I wonder if Wisner can beat the 8 years that was set by Holbrooke on this "promise" that is undeliveable & make it last into the next century....? I thnik he could beat Holbrooke's time - 12 years from now is my guess before we get the promise again!. Anyone else have any guess on the time before this "promise" is mentioned again?

The only certainty is what is valid and has been agreed by the US even after the "promise" was made namely 1244. This as Putin states;

"Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,"
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985
Wisner & Bush can huff and puff but the reality is it is all just bluster and hot air with little substance - seems the US will settle on Status Quo indefinetly.

Not even the old UK rock band Status Quo had so many comebacks!!!

well, US-american governments are not quite well known for keeping promises...

and since there is still international law...,

Mr.Wisner I would like to see how you wanna keep your "promises"

What about fulfilling the promise made when signing up to Resolution 1244?

A part of me wonders if maybe all this delay is the Americans hoping the Serbs will rise up and start another war. Then the Americans can use that as some kind of "excuse" to illegally bomb them again and lie about how it was to stop a "genocide" even though there was no genocide. What was the number Clinton used? 100,000 dead? I think the Americans are hoping the Serbs use force in order to paint them as the bad guys again. Then it'll be easier to steal Kosovo away. Sadly, for the Americans that is, the Serbs are using only diplomacy and international law to fight for Kosovo. And the Americans don't know how to deal with that.

As I said above, America has made one mistake after another. It has thumbed its nose at everyone and has carried on like some bully, out of control and arrogant. The Europeans have no patience with Bush. They have no respect for him. I'm sure many of them are sick of his arrogance and the threat of KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT NOW type of rhetoric is not helping their cause.

This article is very interesting...

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/mb/059.shtml

Blacky,

the US arn't counting on the UK - we have a new PM - Gordon Brown (Tony BLiar is gone) in the next week so expect a cooling off of the atlantic relationship with the UK turning to the EU viewpoint of UN resolutions and laws must be upheld first and not ignored.

Kate & Jovan, I think the Chinese presidency of the UN SC in July will be pushing the point regarding fullfilment of 1244 - the US have quietly ignored the fact that their own self imposed deadline of May has been and gone and the last ditch G8 has too.

Now it looks like we will get 1244 being centre stage in July - like the EU said what ever is deceided in the UN is key and the only thing valid and conirmed is 1244 so the UN had best sort it out and correct the shortcomings!

I would like to refer to Blacky views on the Kosovo situation. Blacky is putting much emphasis on the adversarial relationship shared by Russia and the USA, while doing this Blacky disregards Kosovo’s interests. Blacky also implies that the Kosovo situation is some sort of game where Russia may gain some leverage over America, I consider these comments to be insulting to the people of Kosovo.

Furthermore commenting on the Kosovo situation I believe that independence is the only solution. The former countries that formed Yugoslavia are all independently run countries and Kosovo will not settle for no less. We must also not forget that America is the most powerful country in the world and if it wants to do something it will!

Yes, who cares what the Americans have to say? Everything looks rosy for Serbia. Albanians trust Bush, but if he doesn't deliver than they have Putin, who has said that he will veto any solution that does not have the agreement of both sides. This means that he will veto autonomy proposal if the Albanians do not accept it.

The United States is making a terrible mistake. We have been supporting organized crime in Kosovo for the past 8 years as this 1999 report clearly states.

http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/fr033199.htm

The Ahtisaari plan contains three elements. One part says that the solution should be called "supervised independence". The second part revokes 1244, which mandates substantial autonomy for Kosovo within Serbia. The third part is the positive proposal, which in essence means that Kosovo becomes a EU protectorate. As seems likely, Russia will veto parts 1 and 2, but let 3 through. This means that the end game will be "Kosovo a EU protectorate within Serbia". This is the default option that K-Albanians are facing. If they want something better than this, if they want something more than having EU-crats lord over them, they must start talking with the Serbs.

I fully agree with R.D, the US is the most powerful country in the world and in the end the Europeans will just have to follow the US lead.

I am living in the US and am a US citizen but my heart has roots in Serbia. I am a Viet Nam vet. I see the ridiculous belligerant attitude that the US govt has. It is always sticking its nose into other countries business. It has NO RIGHT pushing anything onto Serbia including that discracful 1999 bombing. Bush does NOT have the backing of the American people-most of whom do not like the idea of the US interfering with other countries workings. Bush has only, I think, about a 25% or so support from the American public. I understand why the world hates Bush. Most Americans hate Bush too. He does not listen to the American people and carries on like a dictator. It is up to Serbia and Kosovo to come to a mutualy acceptible agreement and NOT up to Bush or the UK or the European Union! I am getting fed up with bullying nations trying to force their ideas onto other countries cause they think they know what is best.

Just keep fighting, Serbs. Bush is becoming nothing in America. 75% of the USA hates him. He is one of those people who keeps pushing his propaganda out of ego. Many things; Iraq, illegal immigration, etc including Kosovo will converge to ruin him. He has turned the US into Mao's paper tiger.

Oh Please Nick! The Imperial American Eagle is starting to look decidedly tarnished. And how much do you think Kosovo means to the US in the whole scheme of current world events? Time to become good little citizens of the country you live in just like the rest of us have to.

What does the US mean by promise? Promise for what, and by whom? Was it a promise made by Clinton and Co.? Isn't a promise usually a compensation for something? Such as to a child, "You play nice and I promise you some candy". Or, "Sorry dear, I have to work late, but I promise we'll go out tomorrow". Apromise is a reward for some action, kept or unkept. Wonder what the action Clinton wanted from the KLA, that he made this promise? And Bush is trying to fulfill for him. Somethinh smells in DC, as usual.

HAH we promise to keep our promise (if it passes in the UN). Such a cut off sentence.

AND ANOTHER THING

Why do they keep telling the albanians to hold of until the vote? HOLD WHAT OFF? More importantly why not hold it off for good? States are clearly promoting terrorist attacks and its not getting publicised.

Tom: "As seems likely, Russia will veto parts 1 and 2, but let 3 through."

Sorry Tom, Ahtisaari package is not some sort of a buffet, where you pick and choose what you like and leave out the rest.You either take the whole package or go home hungry.
EU-crats lording is way better than living under the Serbian boot.

who cares what the US says they are boring and getting weaker day by day they got eternal problems and problems in other countries soon they will have no say and Russia and china will be the only superpowers soon.

Blacky,
Just because you are badmouthing my great country, the US - where apparently you live - will not help Serbia. If you are so unhappy here why are you not moving back to Serbia?

Blacky, you touched on something that makes sense when you said > "maybe the USA is using these delays to have the Serbian people rise up again so that NATO can bomb them again." However, I think in fact what Bush is doing is the the other way around, he is waiting for the Albania's to rise up and attack Serbs and NATO, that would be his face saving out! He could then say to the Albanins we tried everything we could to get you independence and then you bit the hand that fed you, he can then DROP the push for independence in some face saving way. The dangerous thing about this theory is that surely a number of lives will be lost on all sides Albanian, Serbian and NATO. A Bush sacrifice in getting out of the corner he painted himself in.

The Serbian-Americans are very active here today and try to make believe that about Kosovo most Americans think like them. Nothing is further from the truth.

Adrian Grashi,

you are going to get broad autonomy, if you can add one and one than you are also capable of understanding that there won´t be something like living "under serbian boots".

you should stop with that nonsense, the issue is too serious for this kind of argumentation.

We Albanians are going to take what belongs to us, with or without help... though it is funny how yoú Serbs still live in fancy and think USA took it from you (and your total disregard of the Albanian factor in this "game" says a lot about you)

"We must also not forget that America is the most powerful country in the world and if it wants to do something it will" RD. RD, it is that type of thinking that has caused most of the world to believe the U.S. is a belligerent, out of control "your either for us or against us" megalomaniacal power. The more power a country controls the more responsibility (for proper use of) that power it has. The world hates us/U.S. for good reason and comments like yours don't help! Even most Canadians believe that the US is the biggest threat to world peace and stability, and that coming from our closest neighbor and ally. Might for Right!

Any delaying tactic from Serbs or Russians on Kosova's independence will not work. Why? Because the US has made up its mind. They now see Kosova as part of their long-term national interest in the clash with Russia in South East Europe. Serbia has firmly allied itself with Russia and that is very good news for Prishtina. The reason why the Americans are impatient for an independent Kosova is because they know that time will not change anything. The Democrats are even more determined on this issue than Bush. So, dear Serb analysts, what would it take to change this state of affairs? I leave it to you to work out.

Kosovo is a part of Serbia, so framing this issue into some kind of Yugoslav context (e.g. Yugoslavia's republics all got their independence, and so should Kosovo) does not help. Kosovo is a Serbian province, not a Yugoslav republic. You cannot apply the same rules.

Serbia has nothing to do with Yugoslavia, and neither does Kosovo. Yugoslavia fell apart completely - there are 6 new countries on the territory of Tito's Yugoslavia. End of story.

Taking Kosovo away from Serbia is a process of breaking up a sovereign, independent European country that is also a member of the United Nations and a signatory to the Helsinki Final Act. (http://www.seerecon.org/region/sp/helsinki.htm).

Adrian wrote:
"EU-crats lording is way better than living under the Serbian boot."

You will eat those words one day my friend......

Marti's plan satisfies the West, beauracrats, and the status quo, but my bigger concern is on the ground...

Independence happened in '99, it will happen tomorrow, and it will happen in a few months again...Nothing will change but your perception... and financially, you'll be back in the same hole again...

I believe the open door towards your independence is through the opened front door of the Serbian household...

Do not think that she won't let you walk through...

She just doesn't like US boots treading over her carpet.

(What i'm trying to convey is that outside interference has always been hard to swallow, and that Pristina-Belgrade dialogue is more pallatable)..

Look for independence via Marti's plan, and US promises, and the next generation will repeat itself..

Good luck Wisner, but we have in black and white what you know is the reality. Last November you had an interview with B92 which is available in insight;
Wisner: Delaying Kosovo solution serves nobody's interest
http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?yyyy=2006&mm=11&nav_id=37724
To quote;
B92: Let’s go back to the recently adopted Serbian constitution. What is your view of the Kosovo status being defined as that of essential autonomy?

Wisner: Kosovo - I know this is a difficult issue - but Kosovo in 1999 was defined under UN Security Council resolution 1244 as an issue that would become responsibility of the international community to settle. It is from that authority that the United Nations has organized president Ahtisaari’s negotiations, with the support of the Contact Group. It is from the authority of 1244 which is derived from the Security Council, that the decision on the future status of Kosovo will be reached.

So you are only too aware that any bypassing of the International community process i.e. UN SC will be equivalent to the attempts of undermining 1244 and the very basis for the legal process of determining the status. If the US prompt the ethnic-Albanians to Illegally declare and the US Illegally recognise then 1244 becomes void and we are in a position prior to 1244 in which case all NATO troops are without UN mandate and are acting ILLEGALLY while Serbia will still have sovereignity and will have every right to ensure security of course it will invoke the UN process first who will be obliged to void any such illegal actions by both the ethnic-Albanians and the US!!!!

Checkmate Wisner keep the ethnic-Albanians placid with promises that you know only too well are undeliverable and huff and puff as you might but you guys formulated and signed the very agreement that enshrines Serbias sovereignity as much as you'd wish things were different your caught in you own trap!! Mayb you should swollow your pride and ask the Russians for help out of your own trap!

It is obvious that there will not be a UNSC Resolution granting Kosovo independence so if the US goes ahead and recognizes it anyway(Bush is arrogant enough to do it)then the US must be prepared to pour in tens of billions of dollars into Kosovo or allow for 2 million Albanians to emmigrate to the US.The Europeans have backed themselves into a corner by requiring a UN resolution when it is obvious that Russia has nothing to lose and a lot to gain by vetoing it.

You know, it's just fascinating to see Serb Americans kick Bush @ now, although, when he ran in his 1st election and 2nd, Serbs were gung ho on Bush and his party and the neoconservative philosophy.

What serbs missed in their neo conserv. articles was the point that they supported US going to war with the russians and their sympathizers and all they represented. THe Neo conserv. not only push thru a program of war with Islam, but their second agenda is war with with russia and their sympathizers. More than any other group, they supported clinton's war on Serbia.

Wisner, Fried and Burns don't have a clue what they are dealing with. Those three are only giving false hope to the ethnic Albanians living in the Serbian province instead of giving real hope of living peacefully with Serbs and others in a multi-ethnic Kosovo and Metohija.
Shame on you three.
You three guys must realise that international law is bigger, stronger, legally correct which puts words of all three of you into a "puff of smoke".
Let Serbs and ethnic Albanians live in neighbourly peace, and this will take some time to sort through, but God willing, it can and will happen.
Remember the words of wisdom, "better the devil you know". Sort it out, at least you know who you are living next to, on the other hand a foreign power with arrogance telling you what to do, how and when to do it is another story. Wake-up.
The Russians do not want to live in your house but the Americans do. The Russians only want you to work it out between yourselves.
The Americans are saying I'll give you Kosovo and then I control it.

To what extent will my government (American) keep its 'promise'? We surely do not believe in a strategic necessity of 2 million people who are not law abiding, western, or developed, do we?

My government is willing to make some diplomatic moves maybe but when that fails where does it go?

Kate, Jovan Cvele,Capernicus,

Regarding promises - such statements by Wisner illuminate the disingenuous nature of US policy and the "negotiations" under Ahtisaari. Wisner himself was appointed in Dec. 2005 on to assist Ahtisaari in obtainig agreement not the force imposition of a undelverable promise!If you read the following line of the press release;
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/58288.htm
"The United States encourages the parties to engage in these talks in the spirit of good faith and with a willingness to reach agreement on a broad range of issues important to Kosovo’s future. With our Contact Group partners and in support of the U.N. Special Envoy’s efforts, the United States will seek to secure a settlement on Kosovo’s status that promotes security for all peoples of the Balkans and advances the region’s integration with Euro-Atlantic institutions"

- Spirit of good faith - indeed. So let the talks begin in the "Spirit of good faith" without preconcieved ideas of promises made or else face the ridicule of being openly dishonest and as such untrustworthy!!!

The United States shouldn't be promising to give the Albanians territory that isn't its to give. If United States wants to reward the Albanians for spending the last eight years ethnically cleansing Kosovo then it should reward them its own territory. Perhaps George Bush can give the Albanians New Jersey instead, I hear there's an Army base there that some of them have had their eye on.

May I sugest a solution for problems in Balkans.

I think that solution to separate in peace with serbs and Macedonians and Montenegro is:
North of river Iber to be part of Serbia exept Lake Gazivoda has to be part of Albanians because this is very important for South part of Kosova People in Sanxhak we have to ask them where they want to be in Kosova, Serbia, or Bosna, Serbian-Bosna has to be part of Serbia to. Preseva Waley has to be part of Kosova-Albanians. West and Wesst North of Macedonia has to be part of Kosova. South of Montenegro (Ulcinj, Tuzi, Plav etc has to be part of Albania and Kosova. This is the solution and I think this is good solution. After that we could live in peace with serbs Macedonians, Montenegro, Bosna will take his part in Sanxhak and serbia will take his part in Bosna and thats it.

we will declare once again our INDEPENDENCE and we will defend it ! with full support of USA and NATO .

we will declare once again our INDEPENDENCE and we will defend it ! with full support of USA and NATO .
(Lorik Jashari, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 11:23)

- when exactly ? today perhaps, maybe tomorrow, next week, month, year, decade, century, millenia....when exactly????

I ask because as Putin put it;
“Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,”
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985

Jovan and Pijetro,

You arguments show how out of touch with reality you are. Maybe it's because you haven't been forced to walk 50 miles to a muddy refugee camp, with your belongings in your back, leaving your house on fire and not knowing whether in the next checkpoint you sister will be raped, or your mother will be killed, or your child will loose a limb or two by the Serbians in military uniform. You don't know whether you'll die of hunger or freeze to death, or you'll be simply shot, but you know very well who wants your existance terminated and why.

You Serbs on this site seem to have no idea how strong is the Albanian determination to free Kosova from any kind of a vestige of the Serbian yoke. To you this could be a game, a pingpong of insults you trade on the internet which you might even enjoy, but to us this is about our daily life, about our future and we WILL have a country of our own that is free and strong and independent and respected. We, and only we, will be the ones to have the last word about our own future, neither Serbia nor Russia can impose on it. For someone that lives and works in Belgrade or Moscow, nothing will change in their routines if Kosova goes this or that way, but to us this is about everything that matters in life. Yeah, you are doing all you can possibly do to obstruct, to starve Kosova economically, to keep its people in misery and unemployment and uncertainty. We WILL plant our flag right in the middle of Prishtina and declare our independence.

Adrian....

I'm not out of touch...
Poke a hole in my statement, and i will appreciate your comments...

Otherwise, all i hear are emotional responses to practical matters.

But since your on the topics of misery and deportation, perhaps we should get Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Moslems on the same comment page...Whatdya think??

"We WILL plant our flag right in the middle of Prishtina and declare our independence."

Again, my previous posts seem to repeat your statements..I don't know what you're reading.

think that solution to separate in peace with serbs and Macedonians and Montenegro is:
North of river Iber to be part of Serbia exept Lake Gazivoda has to be part of Albanians because this is very important for South part of Kosova People in Sanxhak we have to ask them where they want to be in Kosova, Serbia, or Bosna, Serbian-Bosna has to be part of Serbia to. Preseva Waley has to be part of Kosova-Albanians. West and Wesst North of Macedonia has to be part of Kosova. South of Montenegro (Ulcinj, Tuzi, Plav etc has to be part of Albania and Kosova. This is the solution and I think this is good solution. After that we could live in peace with serbs Macedonians, Montenegro, Bosna will take his part in Sanxhak and serbia will take his part in Bosna and thats it.
(Beni, Monday, 18 June, 2007, 10:08)

The solution is not infringe on the sovereign nations land of Serbia, Montenegro or FYROM for that matter.

Wow, great job B92 at reducing my post like that. Did I use too strong of a language? Even if, so what! I didn't attack anyone personally, or used obcenities, and neither was I being racist like many here that are on a regular basis. But it's ok, you can erase my words here, but you will never be able to erase my thoughts and my feelings, and I'm sure there's a huge amount of people in Kosova that feel just the same.

Pijetro, thanks to B92's editing, you just read part of my post ... however. You stated: "I believe the open door towards your independence is through the opened front door of the Serbian household... Do not think that she won't let you walk through... "

What exactely makes you think that? I make judgements based on what I read from the public statements of your country's politicians, and they say that Kosova will never be allowed to walk through. So, how you come up with that assessment? Why didn't she let us walk through in the eighties, or the nineties, when we tried so hard to negotiate with you, and even bent over backwards to accomodate you to the point of becoming ridiculous? Remember the time when Croatia was asking us to enter the war, yet we gave you time to negotiate. And you used the opportunity to get ready to slaughter us. You had about a year and a half to make proposals and come up with ideas and you didn't, hell you even had the past eight years, you could've pulled aside Ceku or Rugova at any time and come up with a face-saving solution; if it was so easy to just walk through, why pull everybody through the mud?

mr gushi are you talking about the serbs you clensed from kosovo in the last 8 years.and about planting a flag in the middle of pristina and declaring indapendents keep dreaming

Dear Mr. Gashi,

I am a Serb and I do feel genuinely sorry for the horrors that your people went through during the 1990s. We did not treat you right, Serbian state was arrogant and racist towards Albanians.I hope that all those Serbs who committed crimes against Albanians face the justice.

Having said that, if we are ever to live in peace, I think that it would be important that you also see what Albanian extremists did to Kosovo Serbs. Most of them are ethnically cleansed, many of them also had to run for their lives (just like you had to), and -- unlike you -- most of them cannot go back home. Many Kosovo cities which for centuries had important Serbian communities are now Serb-free.

The independence that you desire is based on ethnic cleansing of your Serbian neighbours, because of their ethnicity.

Mr. Gashi wrote:
"I make judgements based on what I read from the public statements of your country's politicians, and they say that Kosova will never be allowed to walk through. So, how you come up with that assessment?"

Mr. Gashi my friend..
I come up with that assessment simply for the fact, that Serbians will not send their children this time to fight..
You haven't learned by now..
Politician's say things to get re-elected and paid dearly.
They do not wallow through the mud like we do..

On that note, you need to stop treating Serbs as some sort of aristocrats..
They are no different then you. Wheher they realize it or not, you're both in the same small fishbowl, and the US and Russia are feeding fish food called lies and deceipt...

Divide and Conquer my friend...

That's what's happened..

BTW, i totally agree with Djordje..The Serbs need to rid themselves of generalization and predjudices. It doesn't help anybody.

Djordje, I also hope that those Serbs (or Albanians for that matter) that committed crimes will face justice. However judging from the charade that has become the arrest of war criminals in Serbia, I won't be holding my breath. It's clear that the Serbian political class pretty much shares the same ideology as those criminals, and are working towards the same objectives - as much as the present conditions allow - and just the same they have based their strategy upon the pain and suffering of other people, that quite fittingly they do not consider their own. The present Serbian strategy is based on delaying and stalling as much as possible, and hoping that the difficult economic conditions will make Albanians revolt, they hope that Albanians and Serbs will start fighting in Kosova, apparently they do not care much about Kosovar Serbs either. Is a dirty game of brinkmanship played right out of Milosevic's book. Nothing constructive, democratic or European in their attitude, which is rather imperialistic in nature.

"Having said that, if we are ever to live in peace, I think that it would be important that you also see what Albanian extremists did to Kosovo Serbs. Most of them are ethnically cleansed, many of them also had to run for their lives (just like you had to), and -- unlike you -- most of them cannot go back home."

Had it not been for NATO's action, which many of you resent deeply to this day, we could not have gone home either, and that's why you hate it so much. All politicians in Kosova, have denounced publicly any attacks on the Serbs, especially after riots of March 2004. The govt has even paid out from the poor budget of Kosova to rebuilt their houses and sponsored programs for their return. But we can't bring them back by force, if they don't want to return; and for as long they hold propagandistic value for Belgrade, my prediction is that they won't return, actually their chances of returning will be much greater when Kosova becomes independent, and Belgrade's hostility cools down. And how about Albanians that were ethnically cleansed out of north of Kosova and Mitrovica, why can't they return home? Why is Serbia breaking the international law and the resolution 1244, by sponsoring ILLEGAL parallel structures outside of legitimate Kosovar institutions?

"The independence that you desire is based on ethnic cleansing of your Serbian neighbors"

The independence that we desire is based first and foremost on the will of the people of Kosova to be independent. Is not simply because of the crimes Serbia committed in the 90's; the reason why you lost Kosova is because Kosova does not want to be in Serbia, it did not want in 1912, not in the 1920's, not in the 1960's, 80's, 90's, and definitively not today or in the future. The only way Serbia has kept Kosova was through conquering and re-conquering it time and again and through sheer application of martial law. There has not been one single generation of Kosovar Albanians that has grown up in peace, during the whole time that Kosova was under Serbia. Serbs and Albanians are totally different people, not only by ethnic and cultural heritage, but also by language, alphabet, religion, mentality, historical perspective and expectations for the future. What reason should keep these two people in the same state, that wasn't sufficient enough to keep the rest of the Slavic people together? Why was it so easy to let Montenegro go, with whom you have so much more in common, plus the Serbian minority there is bigger - both in percentage and sheer number - than the Serbian minority in Kosova. Monuments? Give me a break. Italians can visit roman ruins all over Europe, without asking to have them as part of Italy. I think you can learn to do the same.

To: Zoran

I am Canadien and I believe that the biggest threat in the world is America. Can anyone tell me any good that has come out of American war efforts since World War 2? They lost in Korea, they lost in Cuba (Bay of Pigs) they lost in Vietnam, they made a HUGE mess in South America in the 70's, they were clobbered in Somalia. They are losing in Afghanistan and certainly losing in Iraq. So much political interference and War from America. What good have they done in the world so far? And I don't mean the citizens of America who have always showed up financially to help countries less fortunate then they are. I am speaking of the American Government? What have they done? I cannot believe that the Albanins are looking up to America as their heroes, the only country in the world and history to have used nuclear bombs on civilians in populated cites? Not once but twice.

Adrian, at least we agree on something. In general,it does not make much sense to assume that all Serbs hate Albanians. Some do, others do not, just as some Albanians hate Serbs and others don't. We are not all the same and you are not all the same.

I agree that Albanians should also have the right to return to Mitrovica. As for the Serbs returning to Kosovo, well I think that in many cases somebody else now lives in their homes, especially in Pristina? Plus, in March 2004 you also know how many Albanians participated in the riots and that the police force failed to protect the remaining Serbs. I can imagine that there is obstruction by some Serbian politicians, but
you are ignoring the Albanian part of the responsibility for the miserable fate of these people.

"Kosova does not want to be in Serbia"

This is certainly correct as far as Kosovo Albanians go. (Although I understand that in the 70s the Kosova Albanians were generally happy, although they were part of Serbia.) What about Kosovo Serbs --including those who are ethnically cleansed -- doesn't your Kosova/o include them too?

"Why was it so easy to let Montenegro go...?"

Montenegro was a Yugoslav republic and thus, unlike provinces, had a right to secession. If the right to secession was simultaneously granted to Kosovo Albanians, Mitrovica Serbs, Republika Srpska and Presevo Albanians, you would be surprised at the number of Serbs who would find such a deal acceptable.

What makes us so angry is that your territorial autonomy (Kosovo/a) can simply secede at will, and our territorial autonomy (Srpska) is facing the threat of abolishment.

Djordje,

"I agree that Albanians should also have the right to return to Mitrovica. As for the Serbs returning to Kosovo, well I think that in many cases somebody else now lives in their homes, especially in Pristina? Plus, in March 2004 you also know how many Albanians participated in the riots and that the police force failed to protect the remaining Serbs. I can imagine that there is obstruction by some Serbian politicians, but you are ignoring the Albanian part of the responsibility for the miserable fate of these people."

Well, if somebody is living in somebody's else house - occupying it by force that is - they have to move out. And since the Serbian army and police destroyed so many houses and property, both personal and communal, it should pay reparations to these people to have their houses rebuilt and property restored, because those were state organs that inflicted the damages. People that lost their dear ones should receive compensation, and at minimum they should have access to the state archives to know what exactly happened to their relatives, who gave the orders, who pulled the trigger, and the criminals should face justice without exception. There are more than 2000 people still missing, their families deserve to have at least their bones, and a grave on which they can cry and remember their loved ones. I don't believe for one second that the state of Serbia doesn't know where the bodies are, there was a chain of command and report, I'm certain there is in Belgrade detailed information about each one of them, and that the government of Serbia is not releasing that information for political reasons, and that is a crime in itself. Across the region, monuments of Albanian culture were destroyed, such as the house of the League of Prizren, nearly half the mosques and many catholic churches were burned down, thousands of archaeological artifacts were taken and are still in Belgrade, Kosova's central and local archives were emptied and taken in Serbia, including property deeds, birth and police reports, many precious and antique books were taken from libraries across the country. Those belong to the people of Kosova, it's their history, heritage and culture and they should be returned back.

I don't ignore or deny the Albanian responsibility during the March 2004 riots. As I said, Albanian politicians across the board denounced them publicly, and are paying to have the damages of the houses and churches restored. I have personally met with Serbs that were affected in 2004 and told them face to face that I was sorry for what happened to them. It's unfortunate that in riots like these, it's not the criminals who get punished, but the innocent who can't protect themselves. And I'm also sorry for the Albanians that died during that time, and there were more Albanians(11) than Serbs (8) that died in 2004, including those three boys drowning on the river.

I try to understand what happened, why so many people took revenge in their own hands. Apparently the police and NATO were caught unprepared and by surprise and Kosova Police had still their hands tied by the internationals, they couldn't even go on patrol without being shadowed by international police, sometimes even without a weapon. UNMIK itself had been living in its own bubble, out of touch with people, and obviously didn't understand their frustration and still doesn't understand it. Where there is no justice, frustration and anger amounts. What happened in Kosova, is that the Serbian army and police killed, burned, expelled and raped with impunity and simply left when its business was done, leaving the whole country and people ravaged in its wake. Local Serbs got inside their villages with barbed wire and NATO tanks, and the crimes that happened were never addressed at the local level, justice was simply not done and the intls were not interested in it. They simply brushed it over and split the blame arithmetically, in many cases treating Albanians with hostility and suspicion! The Serbs never admitted to their crimes and they still amazingly, in overwhelming numbers don't admit to it, as it is evident in this board, they instead blame Albanians! That's like rubbing salt to the wounds. ICTY with some never ending struggle and theatrics indicted Milosevic and a few of his top generals, but Serbia had nearly 70 thousands troops in the province, most of whom took part directly in the atrocities against civilians, what kind of justice is the one that gives these killers a blank slate for what they have done. Frustration and anger and humiliation and the feeling that your life values less than that of your killers, are the least one feels in these circumstances. There was not a single Albanian life that wasn't affected by the conflict, and these feelings blanket the entire population on a very personal level. People have things in their hearts, that they will only tell their gravestones. UNMIK with its array of people of different colors and cultures from Africa to the North Pole is simply too incompetent and insensitive to understand these issues and frustrations, most of them come on assignment for a certain amount of time, live the good life and lecture endlessly about trivial things and when they leave they don't think twice about what they left behind. Witness, Abdul Aziz on this board, and how rude and insensitive he is towards people he is supposed to serve, wasting probably his office time not to solve issues in Kosova but telling us whether we came from illyrians or the marcians; what a joke!

"What makes us so angry is that your territorial autonomy (Kosovo/a) can simply secede at will, and our territorial autonomy (Srpska) is facing the threat of abolishment."

Per your analogy, Kosova was autonomous in Yugo, Srpska wasn't. And now is its own entity in a federation with its own institutions, police and army. We have sizable minorities too in Macedonia and Montenegro, but we can only dream if they had the same, or even half of the same rights that Srpska has in Bosnia. We would be very happy if they actually had the same rights that Serbs would be having with Ahtisaari plan in Kosova. Even when Kosova becomes independent, believe me, you'll have it much better overall.