New round of Kosovo talks possible?

Nothing will change since Serbia wants Kosovo without Albanians. Albanians have made a compromise by giving Serb villages in Kosovo autonomy. Now it is Serbia's turn to recognize Kosovo independent.

I'm not exactly sure which planet these people live on, but when I think of negotiations and talks, I would think that there is no solution and that's why there should be talks. What's the point of having talks if the end result must be independence? Do they think that things will change this time around? I'm not exactly sure if these diplomats are just stupid, or if they're stubborn and refuse to accept the cold hard truth: Serbia will not give up Kosovo.

If this proves anything, it proves that the negotiations and talks from day one were a farce. They already decided. So why this big song and dance?

I believe it is time to give the independence and let old wounds heal. The future of both countries lie in the balance. yes i was at a time pro serb but i have come to the realization that to be separate will be the best for both sides. As long as both abide by the agreement.

"Not to delay what the outcome has to be, but to make it clear to the world that every avenue was pursued," Wisner said.

One wonders how Wisner square's that circle in his own mind ??? We will have talks as long as our imposed choice of outcomes is adopted before we start discussing all other alternatives????

Yep right well square it with the fact that there is already a valid resolution and that Putin says
" “Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,” Mr Putin said. The Russians also ask, if Kosovo is granted independence, why not the two breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia? "
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985

Lets just see what the Chinese presidency of the UN SC will bring in July & while we are at it the Portugese Presidency of the EU from July to Dec.???

well, if one thing became clear, then it is the fact that the old finn is simply the wrong person for that job.

Russians won´t be that silly to say "yes and amen" to this proposal with "independence following automatically" ... on the other side it reveals a certain desperation, they don´t know what to do, since all deadlines they have drawn were a joke.
fresh talks, okay, but without a predetermined result. to think the Russians and Serbs would accept that shows the naivety of that idea.

What's the point Serbia will not agree on Kosova's independence. Kosovars will not agree to live under the belgrade government ever again. The US has proposed a deadline for Kosova’s Independence.

Nehat, has the last 8 years not taught you that the Satus Quo is in no-ones interest but that ignoring the opportunity to resolve the situation on agreeable terms to all will just be a continuation of the Status Quo - it's a shame that you wish that for yourself and everyone else.

Question mark, why would the Serbian government not want Kosovo without all the Serbian citizens irrespective of ethnic heritage???

The only compromise that is possible to be adopted in the UN is Ahtisaari 'Lite' - principles of Ahtisaari regarding the administartion of the Serbian province

- Ahtisaari 'Lite'
- Zero % partition
- 100 % Serbian State

“If, after the four months of resumed Belgrade-Priština talks, the new envoy concluded that no headway has been made, the international organizations in Kosovo would automatically launch implementation of Ahtisaari’s plan.”

Of course no headway will be made in such talks. The Albanians feel no need to talk, or God forbid “compromise” due to the fact that the U.S and many of it’s allies have stated that the only option is Independence. Had the U.S (& it’s allies) taken the Russian approach from the beginning of ‘a solution accepted by both sides’, the Albanians and Serbs would be forced to talk and create a true compromised deal.

They are wasting time till July 1st. These are the same offers over and over again. They think Russia will change their mind and say YES to what they said NO to just a few days ago. For some reason West believes that Russia is looking for a way out.
IF Russia VETOs the resolution then they benefit HUGE. Not only do they undermine the pipeline plans from Caspian Sea through Kosovo they also undermine them in Georgia since they know that if US recognizes them unilaterally Russians will follow up with the same respect.

We will hear different offers after the meeting in July.

No independence.

"He however underscored that Kosovo’s partition was ruled out as an option, as it ran against the Serbian Constitution and principles of International law."

There you have it folks, Simic and the Serbian govt is against partition.So, partition of N Kosovo is out - nobody wants it. I think the best solution is to give the sovereignty of Kosovo to the EU. Albanians and local Serbs can run the internal affairs, but the international representation and policy will be handled by EU. It's the best solution for all.

just to ask an objective question...please don't construe this as an opinion of any kind:

if serbia is to be granted full eu membership, then all of serbia would need to meet some par. i.e. serbia as a whole would have to join the eu, not parts of it. if kosovo were to be a part of that serbia, how long would it take for the whole of kosovo to reach par with belgrade, to allow for its (serbia as a whole) accession?

the international community has already linked just about every media pubilicized major terrorist attack somehow to kosovo. is it possible somehow to believe that western europe would feel comfortable with lifting the visa regime to serbia with open boarders to this element? we all know the big stir that is brewing in britain after it was discovered that thousands of alleged kosovar refugees were in fact really opportunists from albania, and have since gone missing. it's these events that help to disclose the real mindset of western europe. then, does one conclude that western europe's granting independence would only be an appeasement to protect themselves from any future reprisals?

Princip, if the Serbian state would want all its citizens irrespective of its ethnic heritage, it wouldn't deny them the right to vote for the highest law of the land, The Constitution. How do you expect such citizens to respect a country that does not allow them to vote for the laws which will apply to them. This did not happen under Milosevic, but under the new so called "democratic" Serbia. This has to be the most pervert idea of "democracy" that the "loving" Serbian state and politicians offer to Kosovo and to its citizens. Again as in Milosevic's time not one person in Serbia protested against such a flagrant abuse of democracy and human rights towards the people of Kosova, a people and land which Serbia claims it would love to integrate into its life. If this is the first step towards integration I can only imagine what comes next.

There are more solutions then independence, but these haven't been given serious thought. The only solution that seems to be on the table is independence, so there is little reason for discusions as far as the albanians are concerned since they get what they want after all.

A real compromise would be far reaching autonomy, which since it would have been agreed upon on an international level through the U.N., can't be revoked by Beograd.So Albanians wouldn't have to worry about that.

This is a truly ridiculous idea in every way. There is absolutely no incentive for the Kosovo Albanians to change their position. They can just hold tight and do nothing, knowing that they will get independence at the end. Also the idea of keeping Ahtisaari, who is clearly partial, is a non-starter.

In many ways, the obvious answer would be for the international community to tell both sides that if they fail to reach an agreement, then Kosovo will simply be partitioned. The danger, of course, is that, this could spark a armed land grab by either side. However, this could be prevented if Pristina was told that if it tried anything by force it would never receive recognition. Meanwhile, Belgrade would be told that if it did this, the current proposals would be enforced. All things considered, this would be the fairest and most logical approach as it would give both sides an incentive either to reach an agreement or live with the consequences.

The anonymous leaks have started again but once more they will fail since they just don't get Putin has now openly stated that there will never be an acceptance of the partition of Serbia
Putin stated;
“Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council."
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985
This is all delaying tactics to find the right opportunity for the US to slowly let the penny drop that they tried but could not deliver though they tried and they huffed and puffed but they could not blow the UN resolution 1244 down!!!

July will be a good month when the Portugese will assume the EU presidency for the next 6 months and China will hold the UN SC presidency - has the penny not dropped yet....

Hi every one. It's been a while a haven't been on this forum, but not much has changed for sure. The same old Princip, Jovan , I miss Blag though; He was a nice guy and smart enough to tell what time it was.I like your posts Nick Shala, you keep it proffesional, but I also understand your humor sometimes, b/c it's really hard not to laugh with what you read in here a lot of times. I would like to remind to all of you what President Bush said in Tirana last Sunday, that at some point he will say enough is enough and Kosovo will be Independent. 10000 people were killed, 1.000.000 people expelled, hundreds of villages burned,... etc etc...that's a lot for a people to go through. I am very sure that every single family in kosovo has been hurt from this "democratic' state of Serbia in one way or another, and 8 years later expecting those people to be reintegrated back in the state that tried to kill every one of them,...., I don't know how you people think, ... ,I guess each person, every nation has a different morality, ... , but this is way over the line of huminity. Good luck to all of you, and please remember less ANGER, b/c anger is just a letter away from DANGER. PEACE is what we all need, what this world needs.
Thanks guys, thanks B92.

i think if the is posible to have a new talks people of Kosovo cano't acept beacuse we not have for what to talk with serbia beacuse serbia was do it terror in kosovo and people of kosovo will not acept new talks and we want self-determination that will be a god solution for all

An absolutely ridiculous and DISHONEST proposal! And to top it all, to possibly appoint Ahtisaari again! All Pristina has to do then is to stall and pretend to negotiate for 4 months. The US and Italy are really devious to say the least ..... or maybe desperate enough now to even propose this absurd no-brainer of a proposal!

"Supervised Autonomy"!!

I have heard this term few times and frankly I don't get the meaning. What I don't understand about this scenario is; what will happen after international forces leave Kosova? According to "Supervised Autonomy" proponents everything will roll back to the autonomy of 1974, an autonomy that was revoked despite the fact that was sanctioned by Serbia's constitution, or Yugoslavia's for that matter. So after all Serbia is willing to give Kosova something that shouldn't have taken in the first place and be done with it.

I am sorry but I have never heard someone commiting a crime and get off the hook by just promising not to do it again.
(Except O.J Simpson)

Princip seems to have all the time in the world commenting on every article about Kosova. As always, he's very predictable. By September, Kosova is independent. You better look for another Serbian cause to defend. May I suggest Vojvodina?

Mospyt

Glad you have time to read all of these posts. But now for albanians it is just wishful thinking. There is obviously no independence. Supervised autonomy will be implemented by the end of the year. After the new resolution fails EU will do their best to govern Kosovo under 1244 but will fail and abandon the cause to the Serbs.

The thing is that the consensus that Serbia is trying to reach is not a true, real and sincere consensus. Its a formula for colonization. How on earth do you expect the Albanians in Kosovo accept it when the current status they have is much better than what Serbia is offering. And of course the internationals and Kosovars don't like what they have at all, still beats what Serbia offers, hence Ahtisari's plan.
Also how do you expect the Albanians to accept that Serbia deals with the money, the taxes and any monetary legislation for them and they have no say. How on earth do you expect the Albanians to accept for the Serbs to do their politics for them, when in for the whole last century they've branded them as terrorists, criminals, animals and all kinds of names. How do you expect the Albanians to accept the Serb security forces, the same uniforms that killed their children,brothers, mothers, elders.
If the Serbs had a true intention to offer a compromise they would offer more not less than what Albanians already have been having for 8 years now.
For example since they don't like losing Kosova they could have offered a Federation made by the two independent states of Kosova. Where there Albanian parliamentarians in the Confederation's senate, and laws are passed according to the protections Ahtissari's plan has for Serbs. In this confederation there are Albanian ministers, according to an agreed formula, and Albanian workers ( vice-ministers) in each ministry according to the same formula. Both republics would have absolute veto's in the parliament for important laws. ...And as Serbs say this would be flexible, even more flexible for the future, than the bad plan disguised as a compromise by the Serbs which they claim to be flexible. Also this can be seen as a true compromise by the West.
This compromise by the way is 15 years too late, but it's still better than what Serbia is offering now. Anyway as an Albanian what Serbia is offering now is better because it makes our position much easier.

Nothing will change since Serbia wants Kosovo without Albanians. Albanians have made a compromise by giving Serb villages in Kosovo autonomy. Now it is Serbia's turn to recognize Kosovo independent.

I'm not exactly sure which planet these people live on, but when I think of negotiations and talks, I would think that there is no solution and that's why there should be talks. What's the point of having talks if the end result must be independence? Do they think that things will change this time around? I'm not exactly sure if these diplomats are just stupid, or if they're stubborn and refuse to accept the cold hard truth: Serbia will not give up Kosovo.

If this proves anything, it proves that the negotiations and talks from day one were a farce. They already decided. So why this big song and dance?

I believe it is time to give the independence and let old wounds heal. The future of both countries lie in the balance. yes i was at a time pro serb but i have come to the realization that to be separate will be the best for both sides. As long as both abide by the agreement.

"Not to delay what the outcome has to be, but to make it clear to the world that every avenue was pursued," Wisner said.

One wonders how Wisner square's that circle in his own mind ??? We will have talks as long as our imposed choice of outcomes is adopted before we start discussing all other alternatives????

Yep right well square it with the fact that there is already a valid resolution and that Putin says
" “Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council. This resolution states black on white that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia,” Mr Putin said. The Russians also ask, if Kosovo is granted independence, why not the two breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia? "
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985

Lets just see what the Chinese presidency of the UN SC will bring in July & while we are at it the Portugese Presidency of the EU from July to Dec.???

well, if one thing became clear, then it is the fact that the old finn is simply the wrong person for that job.

Russians won´t be that silly to say "yes and amen" to this proposal with "independence following automatically" ... on the other side it reveals a certain desperation, they don´t know what to do, since all deadlines they have drawn were a joke.
fresh talks, okay, but without a predetermined result. to think the Russians and Serbs would accept that shows the naivety of that idea.

What's the point Serbia will not agree on Kosova's independence. Kosovars will not agree to live under the belgrade government ever again. The US has proposed a deadline for Kosova’s Independence.

Nehat, has the last 8 years not taught you that the Satus Quo is in no-ones interest but that ignoring the opportunity to resolve the situation on agreeable terms to all will just be a continuation of the Status Quo - it's a shame that you wish that for yourself and everyone else.

Question mark, why would the Serbian government not want Kosovo without all the Serbian citizens irrespective of ethnic heritage???

The only compromise that is possible to be adopted in the UN is Ahtisaari 'Lite' - principles of Ahtisaari regarding the administartion of the Serbian province

- Ahtisaari 'Lite'
- Zero % partition
- 100 % Serbian State

“If, after the four months of resumed Belgrade-Priština talks, the new envoy concluded that no headway has been made, the international organizations in Kosovo would automatically launch implementation of Ahtisaari’s plan.”

Of course no headway will be made in such talks. The Albanians feel no need to talk, or God forbid “compromise” due to the fact that the U.S and many of it’s allies have stated that the only option is Independence. Had the U.S (& it’s allies) taken the Russian approach from the beginning of ‘a solution accepted by both sides’, the Albanians and Serbs would be forced to talk and create a true compromised deal.

They are wasting time till July 1st. These are the same offers over and over again. They think Russia will change their mind and say YES to what they said NO to just a few days ago. For some reason West believes that Russia is looking for a way out.
IF Russia VETOs the resolution then they benefit HUGE. Not only do they undermine the pipeline plans from Caspian Sea through Kosovo they also undermine them in Georgia since they know that if US recognizes them unilaterally Russians will follow up with the same respect.

We will hear different offers after the meeting in July.

No independence.

"He however underscored that Kosovo’s partition was ruled out as an option, as it ran against the Serbian Constitution and principles of International law."

There you have it folks, Simic and the Serbian govt is against partition.So, partition of N Kosovo is out - nobody wants it. I think the best solution is to give the sovereignty of Kosovo to the EU. Albanians and local Serbs can run the internal affairs, but the international representation and policy will be handled by EU. It's the best solution for all.

just to ask an objective question...please don't construe this as an opinion of any kind:

if serbia is to be granted full eu membership, then all of serbia would need to meet some par. i.e. serbia as a whole would have to join the eu, not parts of it. if kosovo were to be a part of that serbia, how long would it take for the whole of kosovo to reach par with belgrade, to allow for its (serbia as a whole) accession?

the international community has already linked just about every media pubilicized major terrorist attack somehow to kosovo. is it possible somehow to believe that western europe would feel comfortable with lifting the visa regime to serbia with open boarders to this element? we all know the big stir that is brewing in britain after it was discovered that thousands of alleged kosovar refugees were in fact really opportunists from albania, and have since gone missing. it's these events that help to disclose the real mindset of western europe. then, does one conclude that western europe's granting independence would only be an appeasement to protect themselves from any future reprisals?

Princip, if the Serbian state would want all its citizens irrespective of its ethnic heritage, it wouldn't deny them the right to vote for the highest law of the land, The Constitution. How do you expect such citizens to respect a country that does not allow them to vote for the laws which will apply to them. This did not happen under Milosevic, but under the new so called "democratic" Serbia. This has to be the most pervert idea of "democracy" that the "loving" Serbian state and politicians offer to Kosovo and to its citizens. Again as in Milosevic's time not one person in Serbia protested against such a flagrant abuse of democracy and human rights towards the people of Kosova, a people and land which Serbia claims it would love to integrate into its life. If this is the first step towards integration I can only imagine what comes next.

There are more solutions then independence, but these haven't been given serious thought. The only solution that seems to be on the table is independence, so there is little reason for discusions as far as the albanians are concerned since they get what they want after all.

A real compromise would be far reaching autonomy, which since it would have been agreed upon on an international level through the U.N., can't be revoked by Beograd.So Albanians wouldn't have to worry about that.

This is a truly ridiculous idea in every way. There is absolutely no incentive for the Kosovo Albanians to change their position. They can just hold tight and do nothing, knowing that they will get independence at the end. Also the idea of keeping Ahtisaari, who is clearly partial, is a non-starter.

In many ways, the obvious answer would be for the international community to tell both sides that if they fail to reach an agreement, then Kosovo will simply be partitioned. The danger, of course, is that, this could spark a armed land grab by either side. However, this could be prevented if Pristina was told that if it tried anything by force it would never receive recognition. Meanwhile, Belgrade would be told that if it did this, the current proposals would be enforced. All things considered, this would be the fairest and most logical approach as it would give both sides an incentive either to reach an agreement or live with the consequences.

The anonymous leaks have started again but once more they will fail since they just don't get Putin has now openly stated that there will never be an acceptance of the partition of Serbia
Putin stated;
“Our position on Kosovo is based on international law and on the decisions adopted by the UN Security Council."
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340985
This is all delaying tactics to find the right opportunity for the US to slowly let the penny drop that they tried but could not deliver though they tried and they huffed and puffed but they could not blow the UN resolution 1244 down!!!

July will be a good month when the Portugese will assume the EU presidency for the next 6 months and China will hold the UN SC presidency - has the penny not dropped yet....

Hi every one. It's been a while a haven't been on this forum, but not much has changed for sure. The same old Princip, Jovan , I miss Blag though; He was a nice guy and smart enough to tell what time it was.I like your posts Nick Shala, you keep it proffesional, but I also understand your humor sometimes, b/c it's really hard not to laugh with what you read in here a lot of times. I would like to remind to all of you what President Bush said in Tirana last Sunday, that at some point he will say enough is enough and Kosovo will be Independent. 10000 people were killed, 1.000.000 people expelled, hundreds of villages burned,... etc etc...that's a lot for a people to go through. I am very sure that every single family in kosovo has been hurt from this "democratic' state of Serbia in one way or another, and 8 years later expecting those people to be reintegrated back in the state that tried to kill every one of them,...., I don't know how you people think, ... ,I guess each person, every nation has a different morality, ... , but this is way over the line of huminity. Good luck to all of you, and please remember less ANGER, b/c anger is just a letter away from DANGER. PEACE is what we all need, what this world needs.
Thanks guys, thanks B92.

i think if the is posible to have a new talks people of Kosovo cano't acept beacuse we not have for what to talk with serbia beacuse serbia was do it terror in kosovo and people of kosovo will not acept new talks and we want self-determination that will be a god solution for all

An absolutely ridiculous and DISHONEST proposal! And to top it all, to possibly appoint Ahtisaari again! All Pristina has to do then is to stall and pretend to negotiate for 4 months. The US and Italy are really devious to say the least ..... or maybe desperate enough now to even propose this absurd no-brainer of a proposal!

"Supervised Autonomy"!!

I have heard this term few times and frankly I don't get the meaning. What I don't understand about this scenario is; what will happen after international forces leave Kosova? According to "Supervised Autonomy" proponents everything will roll back to the autonomy of 1974, an autonomy that was revoked despite the fact that was sanctioned by Serbia's constitution, or Yugoslavia's for that matter. So after all Serbia is willing to give Kosova something that shouldn't have taken in the first place and be done with it.

I am sorry but I have never heard someone commiting a crime and get off the hook by just promising not to do it again.
(Except O.J Simpson)

Princip seems to have all the time in the world commenting on every article about Kosova. As always, he's very predictable. By September, Kosova is independent. You better look for another Serbian cause to defend. May I suggest Vojvodina?

Mospyt

Glad you have time to read all of these posts. But now for albanians it is just wishful thinking. There is obviously no independence. Supervised autonomy will be implemented by the end of the year. After the new resolution fails EU will do their best to govern Kosovo under 1244 but will fail and abandon the cause to the Serbs.

The thing is that the consensus that Serbia is trying to reach is not a true, real and sincere consensus. Its a formula for colonization. How on earth do you expect the Albanians in Kosovo accept it when the current status they have is much better than what Serbia is offering. And of course the internationals and Kosovars don't like what they have at all, still beats what Serbia offers, hence Ahtisari's plan.
Also how do you expect the Albanians to accept that Serbia deals with the money, the taxes and any monetary legislation for them and they have no say. How on earth do you expect the Albanians to accept for the Serbs to do their politics for them, when in for the whole last century they've branded them as terrorists, criminals, animals and all kinds of names. How do you expect the Albanians to accept the Serb security forces, the same uniforms that killed their children,brothers, mothers, elders.
If the Serbs had a true intention to offer a compromise they would offer more not less than what Albanians already have been having for 8 years now.
For example since they don't like losing Kosova they could have offered a Federation made by the two independent states of Kosova. Where there Albanian parliamentarians in the Confederation's senate, and laws are passed according to the protections Ahtissari's plan has for Serbs. In this confederation there are Albanian ministers, according to an agreed formula, and Albanian workers ( vice-ministers) in each ministry according to the same formula. Both republics would have absolute veto's in the parliament for important laws. ...And as Serbs say this would be flexible, even more flexible for the future, than the bad plan disguised as a compromise by the Serbs which they claim to be flexible. Also this can be seen as a true compromise by the West.
This compromise by the way is 15 years too late, but it's still better than what Serbia is offering now. Anyway as an Albanian what Serbia is offering now is better because it makes our position much easier.