Yes, there is definitively a shift in language and attitude; why would China express the desire to develop relations with the Kosovar people, if they didn't recognize the possibility of them being independent? China doesn't follow anyone but their own interests, they make their own foreign policy.
Of course they are being diplomatic, because they don't want to anger Serbia. But as much as they would hate any country to become independent, they realize that there is life after Kosova becomes in fact independent AND they don't want to end up with a "Macedonian scenario", where the new state establishes diplomatic relations with Taiwan not China. All this points towards China's abstention in the voting, not a veto.
No we didn't notice the sift in language, its called being DIPLOMATIC.... You really think they will ally with Albanians over Russia, no seriously just think about it?
What Mr Burns is actually saying is :
We are trying to do an illegal act (steal territory from a UN member), because in past we also did an illegal act (Bombed a soveireign UN member which had no hostile intentions to any member of NATO).
Did those guys ever graduated from highschool?
Or brushing their teeth and smiling is the best they can do??
"Quintet talks"
This is just a "group discussion" - round table chat - and not Formal Talks otherwise they all know, Russia would have to be on the inside, and not speaking from outside to be heard.
Contact Group includes Russia unless we are looking at yet another serious BLUNDER!
In 1938 when Sudetenland was stripped from Czechoslovakia, the Russians and the country, Czechoslovakia whose territory was violated were not invited. Britain, France Italy and Fascist Germany like this Paris group rewarded aggression and gave Sudetenland to Hitler. Kosovo process is very similar other than that USA is present and leading the band. NATO rewards KLA terrorism just like the Munich Agreement rewarded Conrad Henlines terrorism.
Nations expect that people will conduct their affairs based on their understanding of what the national and international law requires. Governments in this country should act similarly since they subscribe to the principles in the UN Charter. Every law that a nation passes or administrative action they take must be performed with an eye to what the Constitution and UN Charter requires. This is the basis of the United Nations which was founded by the same member states that are now collectively breaking the law in order to enforce an illegal action against a sovereign nation. . As ignorance of the law is no excuse for an individual who breaks the law, ignorance of the United Nations Charter is no excuse for governments. But where a judicial ruling changes the existing law or creates new law nations like individuals must be held accountable for their illegal acts
As a serbian-american I cringed to see George Bush being greeted so graciously in Albania last week. He speaks of defeating terrorism and then meets with a country that supports it. The hipocracy in this administration has only confirmed my beliefs that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are for oil interests in those regions. Giving up Kosovo is giving up a piece of serbian history how can it be justified. To wipe out, which is what will happen to the churches and holy places in Kosovo so as to be granted entry into Europe which is what Serbia was promised when we gave up Milosevic. Serbia will survive this just like everything else and we will become stronger then ever.
To Philip Davies, “So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?” In 1999 Yugoslavia was still around and the US, EU, and the UN wanted Kosovo to be a Separate State in Yugoslavia. Thanks to the Serbs and Kostunica in particular for drive Montenegro out of their Union and To Independents, known there no other chose for Kosovo but Independent.
Kate and Martin thanks for the support on the stolen watch or not.
I have studied the tapes again and someone seems to be telling porkies - some stories say he took it off his left hand and placed it in his right pocket while others suggest that his body guards took it for him others that an investigation was held and that it was not stolen but surely it would not need an invetsigation if it had not been missing!!! The BBC say it was inconclusive so Joe can you please not try to use this forum just as an opportunity to just slate me while not even commenting on the thread of the post - as this is really immature!
Back to the thread of the but relating it to misinformation wa sit not yesaterday that we were told that the Russians declined an invitation and yet the Russians have put therecord right - not invited and that it is not a positive sign that the quintet choose to follow unilateral options. Looks like the Russians are again being very very explicit but the west just ignore away and the act surprised like they didn't have a clue!!!
We are being told indepedence but there is a deafening silence on what Blag used to reiterate endlessly on "legal Mechanism" for such a stance.
I have to admire the positive nature of some comments but the reality is that there is no legality and the west know this and are blustering with lies, lies and lies of independencebeing 'inevitable' in the hope that people will believe it for the truth ! Howver even the quintet cannot ignore the fact that without a new resolution thay have no legality even for a unilateral recognition - so the ball is in the US court - Russia has said no and won't be held responsible for US irresponsibility to find a solution acceptable to all!!!
Well, Russia better get used to it. That's what happens when a third world country with an economy smaller than Mexico's tries to blackmail the entire civilized world.
For those of you who still have questions about Pres. Bush's watch, check out this and make your own conclusion:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PsTqEO6MHCU
Kujtim
Did you understand what Rehn meant about Serbian putting conditions to EU and its very close relation to Russia? Just to remind you that it is Serbia who would like to join EU and not EU joining Serbia. Also Serbia has got to make a choice either EU on condition have good relation with the independent Kosova or Serbia might be better of join Russian Federation.
Joe - Princip was just repeating the story in all the papers and sourced from Reuters - it wasn't a lie. It's true that Reuters often can't be trusted for their reliability, but on such a small story it seemed unlikely to be a mistake.
In fact, once it was revealed not to be true, Reuters said:
"Photographs showed Bush, surrounded by five bodyguards, putting his hands behind his back so one of the bodyguards could remove his watch."
This is even more damning! He smiles as he shakes hands with people, while holding his watch behind his back to be removed. Not a very genuine way to behave, is it?!
Kosovo Albanians have been through a lot! Maybe I am not a political analyst but I can say that when you do not have freedom you cannot know how is it to bee free, but once you get free it is extremly hard (maybe impossible) for someone to take back the freedom from you.Serbia had her time in Kosovo and that time now is over, and it's "dreaming with eyes wide open" to think that they could rule again in Kosovo.
" He also said that Serbia "lost Kosovo" in 1999 when NATO bombed Serbia. "This is why independence is our goal and I think that we can reach it. It is impossible to turn time back," Burns added. "
So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?
Good for the Contact Group to kick out Russia, Russia should be kicked out of the UNSC as well.
Now China is getting on board with the independence, too. http://www.balkanweb.com/sitev4/index.php?id=4776
In a meeting with Veton Surroi, the Chinese Ambasador in Prishtina Wang Wengang, declared that China supports a lasting solution for Kosova, and it will play a constructive role in the UNSC, and promised that in the future, Bejing will "develop good relations between the chinese and the kosovar people."
Notice the shift in the language: China is apparently ready to recognize the Kosovar people as independent and wants to develop good relations with them. Have you ever heard for example, the Chinese Ambasador going over in Texas and saying that Chinese people want to develop good relations with the texan people?
Well China, we want to develop good relations with the Chinese people too, you know.
His support for Kosovan independence exposes Bush's naked Balkan ambitions for all to see
Neil Clark
Wednesday June 13, 2007
The Guardian
"Far from being concerned about this fragmentation, Washington encourages it. "Liberating" Kosovo from direct Belgrade control, achieved by the illegal 1999 bombardment of the rump Yugoslavia, has already brought rich pickings for US companies in the shape of the privatisation of socially owned assets.
Even more important, it has enabled the construction of Camp Bondsteel, the US's biggest "from scratch" military base since the Vietnam war, which jealously guards the route of the trans-Balkan Ambo pipeline, and guarantees western control of Caspian Sea oil supplies. The camp, which includes a detention facility used to house those detained during Nato operations in Kosovo, was described by Alvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe, as a "smaller version of Guantánamo" following a visit in November 2005. To guarantee US hegemony in the region, it is essential that Kosovo is severed permanently from Serbia - a country which, with its strong historical links to Russia, is never likely to be as obedient a servant as the empire demands."
Washington Post 1999 before the bombing: “With the Middle-East increasingly fragile, we will need bases and fly over rights in the Balkans to protect Caspian Sea oil.”
In April 1999, British General Michael Jackson, the commander in Macedonia during the NATO bombing of Serbia, explained to the Italian paper Sole 24 Ore “...we will certainly remain here a long time so that we can also guarantee the security of the energy corridors which traverse this country.”
Here is something that in my opinion confirms my belief that there is no way other than Kosovo independence. With the exception of possibly creating a "federal" independent republic of Kosovo comprised of South Kosovo and North Kosovo, which can be allowed to have a referendum in say 10-20 years and allow the North Kosovo Serbs to declare independence from this federation if they so wish. Now for the exerpt:
"Only one Serbian party doesn’t have anything about Kosovo independency, Liberal-democratic party (LDP), which already said, a year ago, that Serbia should be the first to establish the diplomatic relationship with Kosovo, and that for Serbian citizens it should be not difficult to accept the fact of Kosovo independence.
Milan St. Protic, the ex-ambassador of Serbia and Montenegro in Washington, esteems that the “arrogant attitude” of Serbian government toward the US because of Kosovo, “will finish badly” for Serbia and that the impetuous reactions from the government on the Bush statements cannot bring anything good. “Because of the Kostunica short-sighted politics, Serbia let the fate of Kosovo to the hands of Russia. It is very bad that Serbia put itself in that position to depend on weather Russia will make a deal with the USA and EU, especially if it is know that a few times in the past, Serbia has already been left short-handed because of these arrangements,” said Protic to the Serbian newspaper, Gradjanski list"
Now, I challange anyone to point out any prominent Kosovo-Albanian politician or official, current or past, that is willing to compromise on the issue of independence? There is not a one. Several Serbian officials and politicians, both current and past, have voiced their concession of Kosovo issue.
If this is to pass, and it looks like it certainly will, then I do support the Ahtisaari Plan in that it institutionally shakles Kosovo, making it totally dependent on the West and international administration, enables Serb municipalities to be all but independent from Pristina, keeps Albanian hands off Serb churches and monasteries, forces a multiethnic cooperative character on policymakers in Pristina, censors educational materials that is either flaudulent, erroneous, or just downright fabricated, and drives a definitive nail in the coffin of the "Kosova is ours, and not yours" mentality that still plagues the vast majority of Albanian minds in Kosovo and on this site. The more I read into this, I realize that if it's either a choice of supervised independence with managed chaos, or unilateral independence with rampant chaos, I'd rather choose Column A and temper the more virulent attitudes of Albanian nationalism.
a nice and clear message from the europeans to usa & uk: don´t even think about unilateral nonsense! greetings to mr. bush! giving over 2 lost wars to the next presidency is the only victory for him, that will stay so! don´t dream about south serbia.
of course the usa didnt´t realy think that way (because of their love for pseudo-states like bosnia or and mostly georgia), but now it´s hard to bluff.
but you need to have hutzpe to tell a people that had their motherland for 500 years "long & forever gone" that south-serbia is gone.
they depend on our food, our electricity, on the parts under serb control, and the biggest part of the gold-reserves (that ar much higher then the ones of former yougoslavia) of the national bank come from "long gone" kosovo for free.
Unbiased history has no data on any origins in fact. Except perhaps the one of Adam and Eve: thank God. Perhaps the disputed lands should be returned to the dinosaurs and thus find the much dreamed compromise.
"unbiased history tells us that albanians have no clear recordings of their exact origins and this is a fact.
(abdul aziz)"
Abdul Aziz,
A tradition that Serbs were known for during the wars of the nineties was to burn down houses and destroy everything that belonged to a different ethnic/religious group. Birth certificates, deed records, passports etc. were destroyed so they could claim that perhaps Kosovar and other residents resided there illegally.
What makes you think that this was not the case when they arrived in the Balkans from the Caucasus? According to Serbs, there was nothing in the area when they occupied it, no buildings, no history, people lived in mountains? Pretty much, God had created this area for the heavenly nation of Serbs.
Maybe they can claim this after they destroyed all the evidence just like they tried in the nineties?
It is true that the Albanians have no clear written documents proving their Illyrian heritage, but then again there is no proff whatsoever that the Albanian people are late commers to the Ballkans.
Some serbs claim the Albanians came with the Turks, which is clearly false as such a large population movement would have been recorded either by the Ottomans, the Byzantines, Serbs or other regional and/or European powers.
Most population movements at the time of the arrival of the Turks are very well recorded. Why is there no mention of Albanians at the time?
Truth is the Albanian people are descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Ballkans and why most people think they are the actual decendats of the Illyrian tribes.
If the Albanian people came to the Ballkans as late as some people claim then why are there no Albanians elswere, and why is the Albanian language only spoken by Albanians in the Ballkans.
A whole nation, tribe, people can not simply pick up and leave without leaving anything behind. It does not make any sense.
Now whether they are mostly illyrians or a mixture of illyrians and thracians for example, is something else.
On the other hand, we all know were the Slavs came from. Like many other Asiatic tribes that were forced into Europe as a consequence of the Hunnic invasions, the Slavs (Serbs and Croatians) the theory (which is supported by many facts) is that the Serbs and Croations first settled somewere in northern Europe (Eastern Germania) then slowly started crossing the Danube into the Ballkans.
Dear all,
I sow your comments... really different thinking...
I just wanted to ask some of you: do you really want to have 30% of serbian parlament albanians? why serbian regime wanted to have Kosovo without albanians? and do you think that serbian government can provide all rights to albanians of Kosovo and to develop them?
Nobady of you wants to think even about this... thats why there is no return back, thats why Kosovo must be indipendent... like this can be a stability in balcan, otherwise we can think only in problems and in the past. With a indipendent Kosovo both Serbia and Kosovo goes to EU and to e prespective future.
let me refresh you guys. UK and US presdiency gone. G8 passed, now Putin Bush talks in america. result??? MAY became MAYDAY, JUNE will become JUNE KNOW WHEN, JULY will be "JOE-LAY" DOWN YOUR ARMS, RUSSIA will say to america. Kosovo will be autonomous not independent. Like China and Hong Kong, 1 country 2 systems. by the way, cowboy bush lost his watch in Albania and they want to cover it up.
Serbia has lost Kosova once and for all. The atrocities and massacres committed by the Serb Army in Kosovo: the burning, raping and murder; all of these lost Kosova once and for all. No other argument or fact that Russia or Serbia try to make really matters. The best that the serbs can do now is ask for forgiveness and pray that God may forgive them at some point in time.
Kosova was never yours and thus you will never loose it……
● The region of Kosova has been inhabited by Illyrian (today’s Albanians) tribes since the Bronze Age. In ancient times, the area was known as Dardania (today’s Kosovar) and was settled by a tribe with the same name. The south of Kosovo was ruled by Macedonia since Alexander the Great's reign in the 4th century BC. The local Dardani (today’s Kosovar) were of Illyrian (today’s Albanians) stock. Illyrians “today’s Albanians” resisted rule by the Greeks and Romans for centuries but after the long periods of conflict between Illyrian tribes and invading imperial powers, the region was eventually occupied by the Roman Empire under Emperor Augustus in 28 BC and became part of the Roman province of Moesia.
● Slavs came to the territories that form modern Kosovo in the seventh-century migrations of White Serbs, with the largest influx of migrants in the 630s.
Notice the changes in history.
During the first and seconod world war’s Serbs where getting masacered by the Austro Hungarians and the Serbs themselves where masacaring the south. You will find names Illirian culture and identitity all over the region the empier that todays Albanians are very proud of.
The World knows these are the true fact of the matter of Kosovo’s current 98% Albanian population who do not wish to live under any serb regime.
Nothing is being stolen from Serbia,the land belong to the people who live in it.Kosovo is not property of Kostunica or Sesejl,its the land of 90% albanians and 10% minorities.
I've seen the video and pictures. There is a certain amount of ambiguity on who is actually telling the truth. If the watch was stolen, it would not be out of character for the White House to say it wasn't in order to protect a foreign group from embarrassment. Who is telling the truth in this case? Who knows.
It is, however, objectively known that the Contact Group does not favor Ahtissari's resolution. All individual members except Russia do, but not the Contact Group. A statement that it does is objectively wrong.
No surprise in the news story. Let's check again:
Germany - waged war on Serbia and singled out the Serbs for 'special punishment' during WW2
U.S. - war on Serbs
France - ditto
Italy - ditto
Great Britain - ditto
So much for an alleged 'Contact Group' that is not in contact with everyone interested (Russia). Anyone in the meeting of those countries ever thought about asking Serbia if it agrees to havign its land illegally hived off, contrary to international law?
Germany on particular needs to remember that Serbs have not forgotten what they did in 1941-45 even if the German education system overlooks this in its history curriculum.
Princip,
You wrote "In my perspective a lie is still a lie".
Yesterday you lied when you stated that Bush's watch was stollen by an Albanian. Any comments?
People you need to stay calm. Russia met his side, USA met his side. Suddenly things begin to move towards something (naturally). I think you put too much effort into something that has been already decided. Oh, has been decided probably at a glass of wine (sitting on the law we all cry about being or not being respected). By the way, that law has been written by some guys that have the power and will to also change it(when it no longer fits with the reality). We do not go by the law. Actually the law goes by us. Otherwise it would be illegal to change it. It has always been like this. I am sure you agree. And it will be always like this (that is a good thing by the way - what would happen if we would live today with the laws from ancient slavery?). After all it is not given by God. Nobody will push buttons and nobody will take revenge. Nobody throws a full plate for a bigger but empty one. If you play chess you know that when it comes of protecting pieces pawns are often sacrificed, but when it comes to the queen... that's a whole different story. Russia does not even need to play now because it has already won the game no matter the outcome of the Kosovo status. If I would be Russia I would be celebrating now. Would I be thinking about veto? Not really, I would not care much in fact. I could concentrate on other things now. This status business gave what it promised. Who cares anymore!? Well, we all know who cares, but they have no word in this...
Even in the case of 100 % of Russia’s correctness around Kosovo issue, they must be showing more serous image. Because the rest of the world more or less agree with Ahtisari’s plan. It is impossible for the rest of… to be manipulated collectively, as Russia and Serbia together pretend to explain, simultaneously trying to “sober them down”. On the other side; if Russia possesses with the truth how pretends, it should take among the first participants the seat in the Contact Group, distributing that “truth” to the others without hesitation.
It is more then obvious that Russia has no clue what to do with a vote, which in my opinion doesn’t deserve to have, with this performance.
In the end; it is unacceptable and incomprehensible, that someone who obstruct the whole process constantly for the sake of dialogue continuation, to boycott any gathering about that topic. It is nothing else then hypocrisy
On July 24, 2006, Contact Group representatives observed the first high-level meeting between the prime ministers and presidents of Kosovo and Serbia to discuss Kosovo's future status. A Contact Group statement issued after the meeting praised Kosovo for demonstrating flexibility in the technical talks underway in the Kosovo future status process, but urged Serbia to demonstrate more flexibility than it had so far.
Therefore, Serbia was NOT FLEXIBLE on anything, and most likely will lose Russia’s support as well.
"This is the only road to take. We think that there is no going back"
I am pretty surprised with this kind of narrow sighted behavior coming from the West. This kind of hurried, no plan B approach obviously indicates they need their resources else where in the world. I just feel sorry for the next country they try to bring ‘Liberty’ and ‘Democracy’ too.
The Contact Group is Russia, UK, France, Italy, Germany and US
Given that the Russians were not present this is not the contact group!!! It is fairly simple to comprehend so why are we lied to with such a headline - this is not a comment at B92 I know your just reprinting. Its is just an observation of fact about what in reality is a lie!!!
The continual deception of the Western elites to it's citizens not just over Serbia's province but many other issues really is quite patronising to it's electorate and is ominous of Joseph Goebbels in his Nuremburg trial stated "Tell a lie enough times, and it becomes the truth."
So do the Kosovo Albanians Mr. Kouchner, we are not that crazy about unilateral recodnition either, but what has to be done has to be done if all other options fail.
As Nick Burns said, we cant turn back time, Kosovo was lost to Serbia a long time ago.
Throughout history, Serbia could only manage to keep Kosovo by force, once that force was gone Serbian sovreinty over Kosovo went with it. Forever.
In other words G-7 favours UN revolution on Kosova. What does it mean? Does it mean that Russia is closing eyes, closing ears, as nothing seen, nothing heard!? I think so! I really must emphasise once more Mr. Protic's statement that if Serbia's politicians continue like the are doing so far, Serbias people will actually suffer, not politicians, they will definitely end with "some" million $, as every one before them (think of Milosevic and company!), as it seems that isolation, embargo, and other measures against the people of Serbias are suitable only for the politicians in power! People of Serbia think wisely, at least this time.
The "international community" should come to terms with two facts: 1) 1244:s (binding) affirmations about the territorial integrity of Serbia will never be revoked. 2) Kosovo will never have a seat at the UN. They must now make up their minds whether or not to come up with a resolution that accommodates these two facts.
This is the only road to take? I'm sure the Nazis thought the same when they invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland. I'm sure Saddam thought the same when he went into Kuwait. America is simply justifying another crime. It justified the invasion of Iraq and now it's trying to justify the theft of Kosovo from Serbia.
So I wonder why America finds terrorists in the middle east so confusing. They too have found a way to justify flying planes into buildings and killing innocent people.
This is no surprise, of course. The Contact Group is like a little wooden puppet. France, Italy, England, and Germany are the puppet and the strings are being pulled by the USA.
I can only hope that Russia cuts off their oil, or charges them extra for heating oil in the dead of winter for treating them as irrelevant. By not inviting them, and totally disregarding what Russia has to say is a slap in their face. It seems money and comfort are the only things that get through to people these days. Obviously international law is irrelevant to these European countries. So Russia should use it's power to make these nations pay for its disrespect.
And why not? America has been blackmailing small nations for years with economic sanctions. When they want something, they simply use their power and money to make nations suffer. So it's time for the Russians to do the same.
This is the only road to take? I'm sure the Nazis thought the same when they invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland. I'm sure Saddam thought the same when he went into Kuwait. America is simply justifying another crime. It justified the invasion of Iraq and now it's trying to justify the theft of Kosovo from Serbia.
So I wonder why America finds terrorists in the middle east so confusing. They too have found a way to justify flying planes into buildings and killing innocent people.
This is no surprise, of course. The Contact Group is like a little wooden puppet. France, Italy, England, and Germany are the puppet and the strings are being pulled by the USA.
I can only hope that Russia cuts off their oil, or charges them extra for heating oil in the dead of winter for treating them as irrelevant. By not inviting them, and totally disregarding what Russia has to say is a slap in their face. It seems money and comfort are the only things that get through to people these days. Obviously international law is irrelevant to these European countries. So Russia should use it's power to make these nations pay for its disrespect.
And why not? America has been blackmailing small nations for years with economic sanctions. When they want something, they simply use their power and money to make nations suffer. So it's time for the Russians to do the same.
In other words G-7 favours UN revolution on Kosova. What does it mean? Does it mean that Russia is closing eyes, closing ears, as nothing seen, nothing heard!? I think so! I really must emphasise once more Mr. Protic's statement that if Serbia's politicians continue like the are doing so far, Serbias people will actually suffer, not politicians, they will definitely end with "some" million $, as every one before them (think of Milosevic and company!), as it seems that isolation, embargo, and other measures against the people of Serbias are suitable only for the politicians in power! People of Serbia think wisely, at least this time.
So do the Kosovo Albanians Mr. Kouchner, we are not that crazy about unilateral recodnition either, but what has to be done has to be done if all other options fail.
As Nick Burns said, we cant turn back time, Kosovo was lost to Serbia a long time ago.
Throughout history, Serbia could only manage to keep Kosovo by force, once that force was gone Serbian sovreinty over Kosovo went with it. Forever.
The Contact Group is Russia, UK, France, Italy, Germany and US
Given that the Russians were not present this is not the contact group!!! It is fairly simple to comprehend so why are we lied to with such a headline - this is not a comment at B92 I know your just reprinting. Its is just an observation of fact about what in reality is a lie!!!
The continual deception of the Western elites to it's citizens not just over Serbia's province but many other issues really is quite patronising to it's electorate and is ominous of Joseph Goebbels in his Nuremburg trial stated "Tell a lie enough times, and it becomes the truth."
The "international community" should come to terms with two facts: 1) 1244:s (binding) affirmations about the territorial integrity of Serbia will never be revoked. 2) Kosovo will never have a seat at the UN. They must now make up their minds whether or not to come up with a resolution that accommodates these two facts.
"This is the only road to take. We think that there is no going back"
I am pretty surprised with this kind of narrow sighted behavior coming from the West. This kind of hurried, no plan B approach obviously indicates they need their resources else where in the world. I just feel sorry for the next country they try to bring ‘Liberty’ and ‘Democracy’ too.
No surprise in the news story. Let's check again:
Germany - waged war on Serbia and singled out the Serbs for 'special punishment' during WW2
U.S. - war on Serbs
France - ditto
Italy - ditto
Great Britain - ditto
So much for an alleged 'Contact Group' that is not in contact with everyone interested (Russia). Anyone in the meeting of those countries ever thought about asking Serbia if it agrees to havign its land illegally hived off, contrary to international law?
Germany on particular needs to remember that Serbs have not forgotten what they did in 1941-45 even if the German education system overlooks this in its history curriculum.
Princip,
You wrote "In my perspective a lie is still a lie".
Yesterday you lied when you stated that Bush's watch was stollen by an Albanian. Any comments?
Even in the case of 100 % of Russia’s correctness around Kosovo issue, they must be showing more serous image. Because the rest of the world more or less agree with Ahtisari’s plan. It is impossible for the rest of… to be manipulated collectively, as Russia and Serbia together pretend to explain, simultaneously trying to “sober them down”. On the other side; if Russia possesses with the truth how pretends, it should take among the first participants the seat in the Contact Group, distributing that “truth” to the others without hesitation.
It is more then obvious that Russia has no clue what to do with a vote, which in my opinion doesn’t deserve to have, with this performance.
In the end; it is unacceptable and incomprehensible, that someone who obstruct the whole process constantly for the sake of dialogue continuation, to boycott any gathering about that topic. It is nothing else then hypocrisy
On July 24, 2006, Contact Group representatives observed the first high-level meeting between the prime ministers and presidents of Kosovo and Serbia to discuss Kosovo's future status. A Contact Group statement issued after the meeting praised Kosovo for demonstrating flexibility in the technical talks underway in the Kosovo future status process, but urged Serbia to demonstrate more flexibility than it had so far.
Therefore, Serbia was NOT FLEXIBLE on anything, and most likely will lose Russia’s support as well.
People you need to stay calm. Russia met his side, USA met his side. Suddenly things begin to move towards something (naturally). I think you put too much effort into something that has been already decided. Oh, has been decided probably at a glass of wine (sitting on the law we all cry about being or not being respected). By the way, that law has been written by some guys that have the power and will to also change it(when it no longer fits with the reality). We do not go by the law. Actually the law goes by us. Otherwise it would be illegal to change it. It has always been like this. I am sure you agree. And it will be always like this (that is a good thing by the way - what would happen if we would live today with the laws from ancient slavery?). After all it is not given by God. Nobody will push buttons and nobody will take revenge. Nobody throws a full plate for a bigger but empty one. If you play chess you know that when it comes of protecting pieces pawns are often sacrificed, but when it comes to the queen... that's a whole different story. Russia does not even need to play now because it has already won the game no matter the outcome of the Kosovo status. If I would be Russia I would be celebrating now. Would I be thinking about veto? Not really, I would not care much in fact. I could concentrate on other things now. This status business gave what it promised. Who cares anymore!? Well, we all know who cares, but they have no word in this...
Kosova was never yours and thus you will never loose it……
● The region of Kosova has been inhabited by Illyrian (today’s Albanians) tribes since the Bronze Age. In ancient times, the area was known as Dardania (today’s Kosovar) and was settled by a tribe with the same name. The south of Kosovo was ruled by Macedonia since Alexander the Great's reign in the 4th century BC. The local Dardani (today’s Kosovar) were of Illyrian (today’s Albanians) stock. Illyrians “today’s Albanians” resisted rule by the Greeks and Romans for centuries but after the long periods of conflict between Illyrian tribes and invading imperial powers, the region was eventually occupied by the Roman Empire under Emperor Augustus in 28 BC and became part of the Roman province of Moesia.
● Slavs came to the territories that form modern Kosovo in the seventh-century migrations of White Serbs, with the largest influx of migrants in the 630s.
Notice the changes in history.
During the first and seconod world war’s Serbs where getting masacered by the Austro Hungarians and the Serbs themselves where masacaring the south. You will find names Illirian culture and identitity all over the region the empier that todays Albanians are very proud of.
The World knows these are the true fact of the matter of Kosovo’s current 98% Albanian population who do not wish to live under any serb regime.
Serbia has lost Kosova once and for all. The atrocities and massacres committed by the Serb Army in Kosovo: the burning, raping and murder; all of these lost Kosova once and for all. No other argument or fact that Russia or Serbia try to make really matters. The best that the serbs can do now is ask for forgiveness and pray that God may forgive them at some point in time.
let me refresh you guys. UK and US presdiency gone. G8 passed, now Putin Bush talks in america. result??? MAY became MAYDAY, JUNE will become JUNE KNOW WHEN, JULY will be "JOE-LAY" DOWN YOUR ARMS, RUSSIA will say to america. Kosovo will be autonomous not independent. Like China and Hong Kong, 1 country 2 systems. by the way, cowboy bush lost his watch in Albania and they want to cover it up.
Nothing is being stolen from Serbia,the land belong to the people who live in it.Kosovo is not property of Kostunica or Sesejl,its the land of 90% albanians and 10% minorities.
Dear all,
I sow your comments... really different thinking...
I just wanted to ask some of you: do you really want to have 30% of serbian parlament albanians? why serbian regime wanted to have Kosovo without albanians? and do you think that serbian government can provide all rights to albanians of Kosovo and to develop them?
Nobady of you wants to think even about this... thats why there is no return back, thats why Kosovo must be indipendent... like this can be a stability in balcan, otherwise we can think only in problems and in the past. With a indipendent Kosovo both Serbia and Kosovo goes to EU and to e prespective future.
I've seen the video and pictures. There is a certain amount of ambiguity on who is actually telling the truth. If the watch was stolen, it would not be out of character for the White House to say it wasn't in order to protect a foreign group from embarrassment. Who is telling the truth in this case? Who knows.
It is, however, objectively known that the Contact Group does not favor Ahtissari's resolution. All individual members except Russia do, but not the Contact Group. A statement that it does is objectively wrong.
It is true that the Albanians have no clear written documents proving their Illyrian heritage, but then again there is no proff whatsoever that the Albanian people are late commers to the Ballkans.
Some serbs claim the Albanians came with the Turks, which is clearly false as such a large population movement would have been recorded either by the Ottomans, the Byzantines, Serbs or other regional and/or European powers.
Most population movements at the time of the arrival of the Turks are very well recorded. Why is there no mention of Albanians at the time?
Truth is the Albanian people are descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Ballkans and why most people think they are the actual decendats of the Illyrian tribes.
If the Albanian people came to the Ballkans as late as some people claim then why are there no Albanians elswere, and why is the Albanian language only spoken by Albanians in the Ballkans.
A whole nation, tribe, people can not simply pick up and leave without leaving anything behind. It does not make any sense.
Now whether they are mostly illyrians or a mixture of illyrians and thracians for example, is something else.
On the other hand, we all know were the Slavs came from. Like many other Asiatic tribes that were forced into Europe as a consequence of the Hunnic invasions, the Slavs (Serbs and Croatians) the theory (which is supported by many facts) is that the Serbs and Croations first settled somewere in northern Europe (Eastern Germania) then slowly started crossing the Danube into the Ballkans.
a nice and clear message from the europeans to usa & uk: don´t even think about unilateral nonsense! greetings to mr. bush! giving over 2 lost wars to the next presidency is the only victory for him, that will stay so! don´t dream about south serbia.
of course the usa didnt´t realy think that way (because of their love for pseudo-states like bosnia or and mostly georgia), but now it´s hard to bluff.
but you need to have hutzpe to tell a people that had their motherland for 500 years "long & forever gone" that south-serbia is gone.
they depend on our food, our electricity, on the parts under serb control, and the biggest part of the gold-reserves (that ar much higher then the ones of former yougoslavia) of the national bank come from "long gone" kosovo for free.
"unbiased history tells us that albanians have no clear recordings of their exact origins and this is a fact.
(abdul aziz)"
Abdul Aziz,
A tradition that Serbs were known for during the wars of the nineties was to burn down houses and destroy everything that belonged to a different ethnic/religious group. Birth certificates, deed records, passports etc. were destroyed so they could claim that perhaps Kosovar and other residents resided there illegally.
What makes you think that this was not the case when they arrived in the Balkans from the Caucasus? According to Serbs, there was nothing in the area when they occupied it, no buildings, no history, people lived in mountains? Pretty much, God had created this area for the heavenly nation of Serbs.
Maybe they can claim this after they destroyed all the evidence just like they tried in the nineties?
Unbiased history has no data on any origins in fact. Except perhaps the one of Adam and Eve: thank God. Perhaps the disputed lands should be returned to the dinosaurs and thus find the much dreamed compromise.
If this is to pass, and it looks like it certainly will, then I do support the Ahtisaari Plan in that it institutionally shakles Kosovo, making it totally dependent on the West and international administration, enables Serb municipalities to be all but independent from Pristina, keeps Albanian hands off Serb churches and monasteries, forces a multiethnic cooperative character on policymakers in Pristina, censors educational materials that is either flaudulent, erroneous, or just downright fabricated, and drives a definitive nail in the coffin of the "Kosova is ours, and not yours" mentality that still plagues the vast majority of Albanian minds in Kosovo and on this site. The more I read into this, I realize that if it's either a choice of supervised independence with managed chaos, or unilateral independence with rampant chaos, I'd rather choose Column A and temper the more virulent attitudes of Albanian nationalism.
Here is something that in my opinion confirms my belief that there is no way other than Kosovo independence. With the exception of possibly creating a "federal" independent republic of Kosovo comprised of South Kosovo and North Kosovo, which can be allowed to have a referendum in say 10-20 years and allow the North Kosovo Serbs to declare independence from this federation if they so wish. Now for the exerpt:
"Only one Serbian party doesn’t have anything about Kosovo independency, Liberal-democratic party (LDP), which already said, a year ago, that Serbia should be the first to establish the diplomatic relationship with Kosovo, and that for Serbian citizens it should be not difficult to accept the fact of Kosovo independence.
Milan St. Protic, the ex-ambassador of Serbia and Montenegro in Washington, esteems that the “arrogant attitude” of Serbian government toward the US because of Kosovo, “will finish badly” for Serbia and that the impetuous reactions from the government on the Bush statements cannot bring anything good. “Because of the Kostunica short-sighted politics, Serbia let the fate of Kosovo to the hands of Russia. It is very bad that Serbia put itself in that position to depend on weather Russia will make a deal with the USA and EU, especially if it is know that a few times in the past, Serbia has already been left short-handed because of these arrangements,” said Protic to the Serbian newspaper, Gradjanski list"
Now, I challange anyone to point out any prominent Kosovo-Albanian politician or official, current or past, that is willing to compromise on the issue of independence? There is not a one. Several Serbian officials and politicians, both current and past, have voiced their concession of Kosovo issue.
His support for Kosovan independence exposes Bush's naked Balkan ambitions for all to see
Neil Clark
Wednesday June 13, 2007
The Guardian
"Far from being concerned about this fragmentation, Washington encourages it. "Liberating" Kosovo from direct Belgrade control, achieved by the illegal 1999 bombardment of the rump Yugoslavia, has already brought rich pickings for US companies in the shape of the privatisation of socially owned assets.
Even more important, it has enabled the construction of Camp Bondsteel, the US's biggest "from scratch" military base since the Vietnam war, which jealously guards the route of the trans-Balkan Ambo pipeline, and guarantees western control of Caspian Sea oil supplies. The camp, which includes a detention facility used to house those detained during Nato operations in Kosovo, was described by Alvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe, as a "smaller version of Guantánamo" following a visit in November 2005. To guarantee US hegemony in the region, it is essential that Kosovo is severed permanently from Serbia - a country which, with its strong historical links to Russia, is never likely to be as obedient a servant as the empire demands."
Washington Post 1999 before the bombing: “With the Middle-East increasingly fragile, we will need bases and fly over rights in the Balkans to protect Caspian Sea oil.”
In April 1999, British General Michael Jackson, the commander in Macedonia during the NATO bombing of Serbia, explained to the Italian paper Sole 24 Ore “...we will certainly remain here a long time so that we can also guarantee the security of the energy corridors which traverse this country.”
" He also said that Serbia "lost Kosovo" in 1999 when NATO bombed Serbia. "This is why independence is our goal and I think that we can reach it. It is impossible to turn time back," Burns added. "
So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?
Good for the Contact Group to kick out Russia, Russia should be kicked out of the UNSC as well.
Now China is getting on board with the independence, too. http://www.balkanweb.com/sitev4/index.php?id=4776
In a meeting with Veton Surroi, the Chinese Ambasador in Prishtina Wang Wengang, declared that China supports a lasting solution for Kosova, and it will play a constructive role in the UNSC, and promised that in the future, Bejing will "develop good relations between the chinese and the kosovar people."
Notice the shift in the language: China is apparently ready to recognize the Kosovar people as independent and wants to develop good relations with them. Have you ever heard for example, the Chinese Ambasador going over in Texas and saying that Chinese people want to develop good relations with the texan people?
Well China, we want to develop good relations with the Chinese people too, you know.
Joe - Princip was just repeating the story in all the papers and sourced from Reuters - it wasn't a lie. It's true that Reuters often can't be trusted for their reliability, but on such a small story it seemed unlikely to be a mistake.
In fact, once it was revealed not to be true, Reuters said:
"Photographs showed Bush, surrounded by five bodyguards, putting his hands behind his back so one of the bodyguards could remove his watch."
This is even more damning! He smiles as he shakes hands with people, while holding his watch behind his back to be removed. Not a very genuine way to behave, is it?!
Kosovo Albanians have been through a lot! Maybe I am not a political analyst but I can say that when you do not have freedom you cannot know how is it to bee free, but once you get free it is extremly hard (maybe impossible) for someone to take back the freedom from you.Serbia had her time in Kosovo and that time now is over, and it's "dreaming with eyes wide open" to think that they could rule again in Kosovo.
Did you understand what Rehn meant about Serbian putting conditions to EU and its very close relation to Russia? Just to remind you that it is Serbia who would like to join EU and not EU joining Serbia. Also Serbia has got to make a choice either EU on condition have good relation with the independent Kosova or Serbia might be better of join Russian Federation.
For those of you who still have questions about Pres. Bush's watch, check out this and make your own conclusion:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PsTqEO6MHCU
Kujtim
Well, Russia better get used to it. That's what happens when a third world country with an economy smaller than Mexico's tries to blackmail the entire civilized world.
To Philip Davies, “So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?” In 1999 Yugoslavia was still around and the US, EU, and the UN wanted Kosovo to be a Separate State in Yugoslavia. Thanks to the Serbs and Kostunica in particular for drive Montenegro out of their Union and To Independents, known there no other chose for Kosovo but Independent.
Kate and Martin thanks for the support on the stolen watch or not.
I have studied the tapes again and someone seems to be telling porkies - some stories say he took it off his left hand and placed it in his right pocket while others suggest that his body guards took it for him others that an investigation was held and that it was not stolen but surely it would not need an invetsigation if it had not been missing!!! The BBC say it was inconclusive so Joe can you please not try to use this forum just as an opportunity to just slate me while not even commenting on the thread of the post - as this is really immature!
Back to the thread of the but relating it to misinformation wa sit not yesaterday that we were told that the Russians declined an invitation and yet the Russians have put therecord right - not invited and that it is not a positive sign that the quintet choose to follow unilateral options. Looks like the Russians are again being very very explicit but the west just ignore away and the act surprised like they didn't have a clue!!!
We are being told indepedence but there is a deafening silence on what Blag used to reiterate endlessly on "legal Mechanism" for such a stance.
I have to admire the positive nature of some comments but the reality is that there is no legality and the west know this and are blustering with lies, lies and lies of independencebeing 'inevitable' in the hope that people will believe it for the truth ! Howver even the quintet cannot ignore the fact that without a new resolution thay have no legality even for a unilateral recognition - so the ball is in the US court - Russia has said no and won't be held responsible for US irresponsibility to find a solution acceptable to all!!!
As a serbian-american I cringed to see George Bush being greeted so graciously in Albania last week. He speaks of defeating terrorism and then meets with a country that supports it. The hipocracy in this administration has only confirmed my beliefs that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are for oil interests in those regions. Giving up Kosovo is giving up a piece of serbian history how can it be justified. To wipe out, which is what will happen to the churches and holy places in Kosovo so as to be granted entry into Europe which is what Serbia was promised when we gave up Milosevic. Serbia will survive this just like everything else and we will become stronger then ever.
In 1938 when Sudetenland was stripped from Czechoslovakia, the Russians and the country, Czechoslovakia whose territory was violated were not invited. Britain, France Italy and Fascist Germany like this Paris group rewarded aggression and gave Sudetenland to Hitler. Kosovo process is very similar other than that USA is present and leading the band. NATO rewards KLA terrorism just like the Munich Agreement rewarded Conrad Henlines terrorism.
Nations expect that people will conduct their affairs based on their understanding of what the national and international law requires. Governments in this country should act similarly since they subscribe to the principles in the UN Charter. Every law that a nation passes or administrative action they take must be performed with an eye to what the Constitution and UN Charter requires. This is the basis of the United Nations which was founded by the same member states that are now collectively breaking the law in order to enforce an illegal action against a sovereign nation. . As ignorance of the law is no excuse for an individual who breaks the law, ignorance of the United Nations Charter is no excuse for governments. But where a judicial ruling changes the existing law or creates new law nations like individuals must be held accountable for their illegal acts
"Quintet talks"
This is just a "group discussion" - round table chat - and not Formal Talks otherwise they all know, Russia would have to be on the inside, and not speaking from outside to be heard.
Contact Group includes Russia unless we are looking at yet another serious BLUNDER!
What Mr Burns is actually saying is :
We are trying to do an illegal act (steal territory from a UN member), because in past we also did an illegal act (Bombed a soveireign UN member which had no hostile intentions to any member of NATO).
Did those guys ever graduated from highschool?
Or brushing their teeth and smiling is the best they can do??
No we didn't notice the sift in language, its called being DIPLOMATIC.... You really think they will ally with Albanians over Russia, no seriously just think about it?
Yes, there is definitively a shift in language and attitude; why would China express the desire to develop relations with the Kosovar people, if they didn't recognize the possibility of them being independent? China doesn't follow anyone but their own interests, they make their own foreign policy.
Of course they are being diplomatic, because they don't want to anger Serbia. But as much as they would hate any country to become independent, they realize that there is life after Kosova becomes in fact independent AND they don't want to end up with a "Macedonian scenario", where the new state establishes diplomatic relations with Taiwan not China. All this points towards China's abstention in the voting, not a veto.
This is the only road to take? I'm sure the Nazis thought the same when they invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland. I'm sure Saddam thought the same when he went into Kuwait. America is simply justifying another crime. It justified the invasion of Iraq and now it's trying to justify the theft of Kosovo from Serbia.
So I wonder why America finds terrorists in the middle east so confusing. They too have found a way to justify flying planes into buildings and killing innocent people.
This is no surprise, of course. The Contact Group is like a little wooden puppet. France, Italy, England, and Germany are the puppet and the strings are being pulled by the USA.
I can only hope that Russia cuts off their oil, or charges them extra for heating oil in the dead of winter for treating them as irrelevant. By not inviting them, and totally disregarding what Russia has to say is a slap in their face. It seems money and comfort are the only things that get through to people these days. Obviously international law is irrelevant to these European countries. So Russia should use it's power to make these nations pay for its disrespect.
And why not? America has been blackmailing small nations for years with economic sanctions. When they want something, they simply use their power and money to make nations suffer. So it's time for the Russians to do the same.
In other words G-7 favours UN revolution on Kosova. What does it mean? Does it mean that Russia is closing eyes, closing ears, as nothing seen, nothing heard!? I think so! I really must emphasise once more Mr. Protic's statement that if Serbia's politicians continue like the are doing so far, Serbias people will actually suffer, not politicians, they will definitely end with "some" million $, as every one before them (think of Milosevic and company!), as it seems that isolation, embargo, and other measures against the people of Serbias are suitable only for the politicians in power! People of Serbia think wisely, at least this time.
So do the Kosovo Albanians Mr. Kouchner, we are not that crazy about unilateral recodnition either, but what has to be done has to be done if all other options fail.
As Nick Burns said, we cant turn back time, Kosovo was lost to Serbia a long time ago.
Throughout history, Serbia could only manage to keep Kosovo by force, once that force was gone Serbian sovreinty over Kosovo went with it. Forever.
The Contact Group is Russia, UK, France, Italy, Germany and US
Given that the Russians were not present this is not the contact group!!! It is fairly simple to comprehend so why are we lied to with such a headline - this is not a comment at B92 I know your just reprinting. Its is just an observation of fact about what in reality is a lie!!!
The continual deception of the Western elites to it's citizens not just over Serbia's province but many other issues really is quite patronising to it's electorate and is ominous of Joseph Goebbels in his Nuremburg trial stated "Tell a lie enough times, and it becomes the truth."
The "international community" should come to terms with two facts: 1) 1244:s (binding) affirmations about the territorial integrity of Serbia will never be revoked. 2) Kosovo will never have a seat at the UN. They must now make up their minds whether or not to come up with a resolution that accommodates these two facts.
"This is the only road to take. We think that there is no going back"
I am pretty surprised with this kind of narrow sighted behavior coming from the West. This kind of hurried, no plan B approach obviously indicates they need their resources else where in the world. I just feel sorry for the next country they try to bring ‘Liberty’ and ‘Democracy’ too.
No surprise in the news story. Let's check again:
Germany - waged war on Serbia and singled out the Serbs for 'special punishment' during WW2
U.S. - war on Serbs
France - ditto
Italy - ditto
Great Britain - ditto
So much for an alleged 'Contact Group' that is not in contact with everyone interested (Russia). Anyone in the meeting of those countries ever thought about asking Serbia if it agrees to havign its land illegally hived off, contrary to international law?
Germany on particular needs to remember that Serbs have not forgotten what they did in 1941-45 even if the German education system overlooks this in its history curriculum.
Princip,
You wrote "In my perspective a lie is still a lie".
Yesterday you lied when you stated that Bush's watch was stollen by an Albanian. Any comments?
Even in the case of 100 % of Russia’s correctness around Kosovo issue, they must be showing more serous image. Because the rest of the world more or less agree with Ahtisari’s plan. It is impossible for the rest of… to be manipulated collectively, as Russia and Serbia together pretend to explain, simultaneously trying to “sober them down”. On the other side; if Russia possesses with the truth how pretends, it should take among the first participants the seat in the Contact Group, distributing that “truth” to the others without hesitation.
It is more then obvious that Russia has no clue what to do with a vote, which in my opinion doesn’t deserve to have, with this performance.
In the end; it is unacceptable and incomprehensible, that someone who obstruct the whole process constantly for the sake of dialogue continuation, to boycott any gathering about that topic. It is nothing else then hypocrisy
On July 24, 2006, Contact Group representatives observed the first high-level meeting between the prime ministers and presidents of Kosovo and Serbia to discuss Kosovo's future status. A Contact Group statement issued after the meeting praised Kosovo for demonstrating flexibility in the technical talks underway in the Kosovo future status process, but urged Serbia to demonstrate more flexibility than it had so far.
Therefore, Serbia was NOT FLEXIBLE on anything, and most likely will lose Russia’s support as well.
People you need to stay calm. Russia met his side, USA met his side. Suddenly things begin to move towards something (naturally). I think you put too much effort into something that has been already decided. Oh, has been decided probably at a glass of wine (sitting on the law we all cry about being or not being respected). By the way, that law has been written by some guys that have the power and will to also change it(when it no longer fits with the reality). We do not go by the law. Actually the law goes by us. Otherwise it would be illegal to change it. It has always been like this. I am sure you agree. And it will be always like this (that is a good thing by the way - what would happen if we would live today with the laws from ancient slavery?). After all it is not given by God. Nobody will push buttons and nobody will take revenge. Nobody throws a full plate for a bigger but empty one. If you play chess you know that when it comes of protecting pieces pawns are often sacrificed, but when it comes to the queen... that's a whole different story. Russia does not even need to play now because it has already won the game no matter the outcome of the Kosovo status. If I would be Russia I would be celebrating now. Would I be thinking about veto? Not really, I would not care much in fact. I could concentrate on other things now. This status business gave what it promised. Who cares anymore!? Well, we all know who cares, but they have no word in this...
Kosova was never yours and thus you will never loose it……
● The region of Kosova has been inhabited by Illyrian (today’s Albanians) tribes since the Bronze Age. In ancient times, the area was known as Dardania (today’s Kosovar) and was settled by a tribe with the same name. The south of Kosovo was ruled by Macedonia since Alexander the Great's reign in the 4th century BC. The local Dardani (today’s Kosovar) were of Illyrian (today’s Albanians) stock. Illyrians “today’s Albanians” resisted rule by the Greeks and Romans for centuries but after the long periods of conflict between Illyrian tribes and invading imperial powers, the region was eventually occupied by the Roman Empire under Emperor Augustus in 28 BC and became part of the Roman province of Moesia.
● Slavs came to the territories that form modern Kosovo in the seventh-century migrations of White Serbs, with the largest influx of migrants in the 630s.
Notice the changes in history.
During the first and seconod world war’s Serbs where getting masacered by the Austro Hungarians and the Serbs themselves where masacaring the south. You will find names Illirian culture and identitity all over the region the empier that todays Albanians are very proud of.
The World knows these are the true fact of the matter of Kosovo’s current 98% Albanian population who do not wish to live under any serb regime.
Serbia has lost Kosova once and for all. The atrocities and massacres committed by the Serb Army in Kosovo: the burning, raping and murder; all of these lost Kosova once and for all. No other argument or fact that Russia or Serbia try to make really matters. The best that the serbs can do now is ask for forgiveness and pray that God may forgive them at some point in time.
let me refresh you guys. UK and US presdiency gone. G8 passed, now Putin Bush talks in america. result??? MAY became MAYDAY, JUNE will become JUNE KNOW WHEN, JULY will be "JOE-LAY" DOWN YOUR ARMS, RUSSIA will say to america. Kosovo will be autonomous not independent. Like China and Hong Kong, 1 country 2 systems. by the way, cowboy bush lost his watch in Albania and they want to cover it up.
Nothing is being stolen from Serbia,the land belong to the people who live in it.Kosovo is not property of Kostunica or Sesejl,its the land of 90% albanians and 10% minorities.
Dear all,
I sow your comments... really different thinking...
I just wanted to ask some of you: do you really want to have 30% of serbian parlament albanians? why serbian regime wanted to have Kosovo without albanians? and do you think that serbian government can provide all rights to albanians of Kosovo and to develop them?
Nobady of you wants to think even about this... thats why there is no return back, thats why Kosovo must be indipendent... like this can be a stability in balcan, otherwise we can think only in problems and in the past. With a indipendent Kosovo both Serbia and Kosovo goes to EU and to e prespective future.
I've seen the video and pictures. There is a certain amount of ambiguity on who is actually telling the truth. If the watch was stolen, it would not be out of character for the White House to say it wasn't in order to protect a foreign group from embarrassment. Who is telling the truth in this case? Who knows.
It is, however, objectively known that the Contact Group does not favor Ahtissari's resolution. All individual members except Russia do, but not the Contact Group. A statement that it does is objectively wrong.
It is true that the Albanians have no clear written documents proving their Illyrian heritage, but then again there is no proff whatsoever that the Albanian people are late commers to the Ballkans.
Some serbs claim the Albanians came with the Turks, which is clearly false as such a large population movement would have been recorded either by the Ottomans, the Byzantines, Serbs or other regional and/or European powers.
Most population movements at the time of the arrival of the Turks are very well recorded. Why is there no mention of Albanians at the time?
Truth is the Albanian people are descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Ballkans and why most people think they are the actual decendats of the Illyrian tribes.
If the Albanian people came to the Ballkans as late as some people claim then why are there no Albanians elswere, and why is the Albanian language only spoken by Albanians in the Ballkans.
A whole nation, tribe, people can not simply pick up and leave without leaving anything behind. It does not make any sense.
Now whether they are mostly illyrians or a mixture of illyrians and thracians for example, is something else.
On the other hand, we all know were the Slavs came from. Like many other Asiatic tribes that were forced into Europe as a consequence of the Hunnic invasions, the Slavs (Serbs and Croatians) the theory (which is supported by many facts) is that the Serbs and Croations first settled somewere in northern Europe (Eastern Germania) then slowly started crossing the Danube into the Ballkans.
a nice and clear message from the europeans to usa & uk: don´t even think about unilateral nonsense! greetings to mr. bush! giving over 2 lost wars to the next presidency is the only victory for him, that will stay so! don´t dream about south serbia.
of course the usa didnt´t realy think that way (because of their love for pseudo-states like bosnia or and mostly georgia), but now it´s hard to bluff.
but you need to have hutzpe to tell a people that had their motherland for 500 years "long & forever gone" that south-serbia is gone.
they depend on our food, our electricity, on the parts under serb control, and the biggest part of the gold-reserves (that ar much higher then the ones of former yougoslavia) of the national bank come from "long gone" kosovo for free.
"unbiased history tells us that albanians have no clear recordings of their exact origins and this is a fact.
(abdul aziz)"
Abdul Aziz,
A tradition that Serbs were known for during the wars of the nineties was to burn down houses and destroy everything that belonged to a different ethnic/religious group. Birth certificates, deed records, passports etc. were destroyed so they could claim that perhaps Kosovar and other residents resided there illegally.
What makes you think that this was not the case when they arrived in the Balkans from the Caucasus? According to Serbs, there was nothing in the area when they occupied it, no buildings, no history, people lived in mountains? Pretty much, God had created this area for the heavenly nation of Serbs.
Maybe they can claim this after they destroyed all the evidence just like they tried in the nineties?
Unbiased history has no data on any origins in fact. Except perhaps the one of Adam and Eve: thank God. Perhaps the disputed lands should be returned to the dinosaurs and thus find the much dreamed compromise.
If this is to pass, and it looks like it certainly will, then I do support the Ahtisaari Plan in that it institutionally shakles Kosovo, making it totally dependent on the West and international administration, enables Serb municipalities to be all but independent from Pristina, keeps Albanian hands off Serb churches and monasteries, forces a multiethnic cooperative character on policymakers in Pristina, censors educational materials that is either flaudulent, erroneous, or just downright fabricated, and drives a definitive nail in the coffin of the "Kosova is ours, and not yours" mentality that still plagues the vast majority of Albanian minds in Kosovo and on this site. The more I read into this, I realize that if it's either a choice of supervised independence with managed chaos, or unilateral independence with rampant chaos, I'd rather choose Column A and temper the more virulent attitudes of Albanian nationalism.
Here is something that in my opinion confirms my belief that there is no way other than Kosovo independence. With the exception of possibly creating a "federal" independent republic of Kosovo comprised of South Kosovo and North Kosovo, which can be allowed to have a referendum in say 10-20 years and allow the North Kosovo Serbs to declare independence from this federation if they so wish. Now for the exerpt:
"Only one Serbian party doesn’t have anything about Kosovo independency, Liberal-democratic party (LDP), which already said, a year ago, that Serbia should be the first to establish the diplomatic relationship with Kosovo, and that for Serbian citizens it should be not difficult to accept the fact of Kosovo independence.
Milan St. Protic, the ex-ambassador of Serbia and Montenegro in Washington, esteems that the “arrogant attitude” of Serbian government toward the US because of Kosovo, “will finish badly” for Serbia and that the impetuous reactions from the government on the Bush statements cannot bring anything good. “Because of the Kostunica short-sighted politics, Serbia let the fate of Kosovo to the hands of Russia. It is very bad that Serbia put itself in that position to depend on weather Russia will make a deal with the USA and EU, especially if it is know that a few times in the past, Serbia has already been left short-handed because of these arrangements,” said Protic to the Serbian newspaper, Gradjanski list"
Now, I challange anyone to point out any prominent Kosovo-Albanian politician or official, current or past, that is willing to compromise on the issue of independence? There is not a one. Several Serbian officials and politicians, both current and past, have voiced their concession of Kosovo issue.
His support for Kosovan independence exposes Bush's naked Balkan ambitions for all to see
Neil Clark
Wednesday June 13, 2007
The Guardian
"Far from being concerned about this fragmentation, Washington encourages it. "Liberating" Kosovo from direct Belgrade control, achieved by the illegal 1999 bombardment of the rump Yugoslavia, has already brought rich pickings for US companies in the shape of the privatisation of socially owned assets.
Even more important, it has enabled the construction of Camp Bondsteel, the US's biggest "from scratch" military base since the Vietnam war, which jealously guards the route of the trans-Balkan Ambo pipeline, and guarantees western control of Caspian Sea oil supplies. The camp, which includes a detention facility used to house those detained during Nato operations in Kosovo, was described by Alvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe, as a "smaller version of Guantánamo" following a visit in November 2005. To guarantee US hegemony in the region, it is essential that Kosovo is severed permanently from Serbia - a country which, with its strong historical links to Russia, is never likely to be as obedient a servant as the empire demands."
Washington Post 1999 before the bombing: “With the Middle-East increasingly fragile, we will need bases and fly over rights in the Balkans to protect Caspian Sea oil.”
In April 1999, British General Michael Jackson, the commander in Macedonia during the NATO bombing of Serbia, explained to the Italian paper Sole 24 Ore “...we will certainly remain here a long time so that we can also guarantee the security of the energy corridors which traverse this country.”
" He also said that Serbia "lost Kosovo" in 1999 when NATO bombed Serbia. "This is why independence is our goal and I think that we can reach it. It is impossible to turn time back," Burns added. "
So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?
Good for the Contact Group to kick out Russia, Russia should be kicked out of the UNSC as well.
Now China is getting on board with the independence, too. http://www.balkanweb.com/sitev4/index.php?id=4776
In a meeting with Veton Surroi, the Chinese Ambasador in Prishtina Wang Wengang, declared that China supports a lasting solution for Kosova, and it will play a constructive role in the UNSC, and promised that in the future, Bejing will "develop good relations between the chinese and the kosovar people."
Notice the shift in the language: China is apparently ready to recognize the Kosovar people as independent and wants to develop good relations with them. Have you ever heard for example, the Chinese Ambasador going over in Texas and saying that Chinese people want to develop good relations with the texan people?
Well China, we want to develop good relations with the Chinese people too, you know.
Joe - Princip was just repeating the story in all the papers and sourced from Reuters - it wasn't a lie. It's true that Reuters often can't be trusted for their reliability, but on such a small story it seemed unlikely to be a mistake.
In fact, once it was revealed not to be true, Reuters said:
"Photographs showed Bush, surrounded by five bodyguards, putting his hands behind his back so one of the bodyguards could remove his watch."
This is even more damning! He smiles as he shakes hands with people, while holding his watch behind his back to be removed. Not a very genuine way to behave, is it?!
Kosovo Albanians have been through a lot! Maybe I am not a political analyst but I can say that when you do not have freedom you cannot know how is it to bee free, but once you get free it is extremly hard (maybe impossible) for someone to take back the freedom from you.Serbia had her time in Kosovo and that time now is over, and it's "dreaming with eyes wide open" to think that they could rule again in Kosovo.
Did you understand what Rehn meant about Serbian putting conditions to EU and its very close relation to Russia? Just to remind you that it is Serbia who would like to join EU and not EU joining Serbia. Also Serbia has got to make a choice either EU on condition have good relation with the independent Kosova or Serbia might be better of join Russian Federation.
For those of you who still have questions about Pres. Bush's watch, check out this and make your own conclusion:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PsTqEO6MHCU
Kujtim
Well, Russia better get used to it. That's what happens when a third world country with an economy smaller than Mexico's tries to blackmail the entire civilized world.
To Philip Davies, “So why did the US support resolution 1244 which states the opposite to this?” In 1999 Yugoslavia was still around and the US, EU, and the UN wanted Kosovo to be a Separate State in Yugoslavia. Thanks to the Serbs and Kostunica in particular for drive Montenegro out of their Union and To Independents, known there no other chose for Kosovo but Independent.
Kate and Martin thanks for the support on the stolen watch or not.
I have studied the tapes again and someone seems to be telling porkies - some stories say he took it off his left hand and placed it in his right pocket while others suggest that his body guards took it for him others that an investigation was held and that it was not stolen but surely it would not need an invetsigation if it had not been missing!!! The BBC say it was inconclusive so Joe can you please not try to use this forum just as an opportunity to just slate me while not even commenting on the thread of the post - as this is really immature!
Back to the thread of the but relating it to misinformation wa sit not yesaterday that we were told that the Russians declined an invitation and yet the Russians have put therecord right - not invited and that it is not a positive sign that the quintet choose to follow unilateral options. Looks like the Russians are again being very very explicit but the west just ignore away and the act surprised like they didn't have a clue!!!
We are being told indepedence but there is a deafening silence on what Blag used to reiterate endlessly on "legal Mechanism" for such a stance.
I have to admire the positive nature of some comments but the reality is that there is no legality and the west know this and are blustering with lies, lies and lies of independencebeing 'inevitable' in the hope that people will believe it for the truth ! Howver even the quintet cannot ignore the fact that without a new resolution thay have no legality even for a unilateral recognition - so the ball is in the US court - Russia has said no and won't be held responsible for US irresponsibility to find a solution acceptable to all!!!
As a serbian-american I cringed to see George Bush being greeted so graciously in Albania last week. He speaks of defeating terrorism and then meets with a country that supports it. The hipocracy in this administration has only confirmed my beliefs that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are for oil interests in those regions. Giving up Kosovo is giving up a piece of serbian history how can it be justified. To wipe out, which is what will happen to the churches and holy places in Kosovo so as to be granted entry into Europe which is what Serbia was promised when we gave up Milosevic. Serbia will survive this just like everything else and we will become stronger then ever.
In 1938 when Sudetenland was stripped from Czechoslovakia, the Russians and the country, Czechoslovakia whose territory was violated were not invited. Britain, France Italy and Fascist Germany like this Paris group rewarded aggression and gave Sudetenland to Hitler. Kosovo process is very similar other than that USA is present and leading the band. NATO rewards KLA terrorism just like the Munich Agreement rewarded Conrad Henlines terrorism.
Nations expect that people will conduct their affairs based on their understanding of what the national and international law requires. Governments in this country should act similarly since they subscribe to the principles in the UN Charter. Every law that a nation passes or administrative action they take must be performed with an eye to what the Constitution and UN Charter requires. This is the basis of the United Nations which was founded by the same member states that are now collectively breaking the law in order to enforce an illegal action against a sovereign nation. . As ignorance of the law is no excuse for an individual who breaks the law, ignorance of the United Nations Charter is no excuse for governments. But where a judicial ruling changes the existing law or creates new law nations like individuals must be held accountable for their illegal acts
"Quintet talks"
This is just a "group discussion" - round table chat - and not Formal Talks otherwise they all know, Russia would have to be on the inside, and not speaking from outside to be heard.
Contact Group includes Russia unless we are looking at yet another serious BLUNDER!
What Mr Burns is actually saying is :
We are trying to do an illegal act (steal territory from a UN member), because in past we also did an illegal act (Bombed a soveireign UN member which had no hostile intentions to any member of NATO).
Did those guys ever graduated from highschool?
Or brushing their teeth and smiling is the best they can do??
No we didn't notice the sift in language, its called being DIPLOMATIC.... You really think they will ally with Albanians over Russia, no seriously just think about it?
Yes, there is definitively a shift in language and attitude; why would China express the desire to develop relations with the Kosovar people, if they didn't recognize the possibility of them being independent? China doesn't follow anyone but their own interests, they make their own foreign policy.
Of course they are being diplomatic, because they don't want to anger Serbia. But as much as they would hate any country to become independent, they realize that there is life after Kosova becomes in fact independent AND they don't want to end up with a "Macedonian scenario", where the new state establishes diplomatic relations with Taiwan not China. All this points towards China's abstention in the voting, not a veto.
IMAGE SOURCE
50 Komentari
Sortiraj po: