Berisha-Ceku-Sejdiu: “Secret meeting”

I don't understand why Serbia has relations with Albania. That country trained and supplied the KLA.

Also, in Albania President Bush had his wristwatch stolen as he shook hands with the crowd. It's on video at around 57 seconds into it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKDdF6vfjoo

I would like to add that the media in Prishtina has also announced for the informal meeting between Albanian primeminister and kosovar President and Primeminister... Anyway this doesnt really matter but what matters is that Berisha gave the message of Mr. Bush for FULL SUPPORT FOR INDEPENDENCE OF KOSOVA as you all know.

From what I recall in 2004, Ceku and a few other Albanian politicians met with John Kerry. Soon afterwards, there was the March riots. Perhaps they were told to go ahead and carry out the riots. I don't know, but I do know that Americans are brilliant at having other people do their dirty work. Remember Krajina? Americans participated in that, but of course, the Hague has only indicted the Croats for it. So here we have a secret meeting. I wonder what George Bush told them. He probably gave them the greenlight to finish the job.

Its not a secret. It was announced in the Albanian media.

Do you know what was said? Then its a secret meeting. Maybe Bush told them if I dont get my watch back you are on your own.

Ida,

wow thanks for the link - yes Bush was welcome like any other mug about to be a victim of crime!!! One wonders if he even knew what happened and is still wondering where is watch went!!! It is evident that the hand came from the crowd and swiped it - what a welcome!!!!

All these secret talks imply that they need to discuss other othings other then the fact that they have now lost cerdibility!!

Secret meeting?! No, it was just to show to all the world and Albanians especially, that for Kosovo is competent Tirana and notPristina, and that independent Kosovo will be actuall for a very short terms-United Albania is real target. Bush visit in Tirana, was a symbolic act for a same purpose: make clear to K-Albanians that Pristina will be ruled by Tirana.

Haha, of course I have to laugh when i see useless comments from some people pretending that Bush's watch has been stolen. This is completely unbelievable.
Some people here try to put down the welcome of albanians for President Bush and have nothing else to say but that his watch was stolen.

Remember, BUSH OPENLY DECLARED PRO INDEPENDENCE OF KOSOVA IN THE MIDDLE OF TIRANA.

Princip, Ida.
The watch was taken by Bush's bodygards(probably as a security measure). Have a closer look at the video. Bush had his watch when he waved goodbye from the Air Force One stairs. This only shows how you make conclusions and it shows your understanding of truth!! For you, with the same superficial viewpoint, Kosovo was, is and will be Serbia forever!! You just have to look closer and see that the truth might be somewhat different! Cheers.

Guy, the wrist watch is turned back (according to the latest news).
Fortunately, it was assured as well, so there is no need to worry about any more.
But the relevance lies on the result of the very sensitive issue, and it isn’t in favor of those who live with myths and stories even today.
Suma samarum; in these situations, I wouldn’t have been happy, even if the wrist watch of someone I don’t like was lost.

cheers

To behar

You have to forget that Prishtina will by rulled by Tirana.
Neither Tirana nor Belgrad can rule Prishtina. That time has gone forver

Meeting cant be secret if we know about it. As for the message we can plausibly speculate that Mr. Berisha conveyed to the Kosovar's the US command: thou shalt not declare independence unilaterally.

To Cvele:
Bush's watch was not stolen but taken away by it's body guards. See for the records while Bush hailes from stairways while leaving Albania. Watch was on his hand

The Daily Mail reports: “The waiting crowds in Fushe Kruje [Albania] had been passed through metal detectors before being allowed and security men in dark suits and sunglasses almost outnumbered the well-wishers. [---] Someone pulled him, someone grabbed him and someone took his watch." I had my watch taken on stage in front of four hundred onlookers and everyone thought I participated in the slight of hand. You have to admire the skill of this thief. I forgot to ask the man who took my watch if he learned this skill in Albania? On a side trip from Corfu to Tirana I read in the Guardian that “Most of the cars in Albania are stolen; no one knows how many there are and [what parts of Europe] they come from”. If you want to visit Albania you better wear a gas mask since during “the rush hour the smoke and dust is as thick as fog, the air heavy with lead and tiny particles called PM10s, which harm the lungs and cause cancer” No wonder they had George visit a village some 20 km from Tirana.

Behar wrote:
"Bush visit in Tirana, was a symbolic act for a same purpose: make clear to K-Albanians that Pristina will be ruled by Tirana"

Just like fish in a bowl, politicians will fight to get the power...

On a side note....

Why is it that Albania openly sides for an independent Kosovo, and it's upheld and praised, yet any sign or mention of Serbia doing the same thing is considered Land grabbing in the name of a "Greater Serbia"??

Pijetro,

excellent question! Moreover, when you consider that the UN also oversaw Krajina before the Croatians ethnic-cleansed 250,000+ serbs in 1995 the contradiction is all the more evident! Which is why Putin said;

"If we come to the conclusion that the principle of a nation's right to self-determination is more important than territorial integrity then we will have to stick to that principle all over the world,"

He is setting out exactly what consequences such reckless actions Mr Bush will set in motion!!!

* Albania openly sides with Kosova on the issue of independence because it shares the shame values with Europe and USA - hence the backing it receives. It does not of course share the vision of an ex-KGB thug who's recent attempt to play the superpower once again.
* Kosova will be independent because there is no ways you guys are coming back - that is to say your tanks, your government rather than Kosovar Serbs. No rule from Belgrade and certainly no rule from Tirana.

* To some commentators - we have never ever been outnumbered by Serbians in Kosova despite many attempts to expel the Albanians en masse - Every world history book and reputable demographer will confirm that (except serbian ones of course). The nomadic Serbian people, including Serbs did not find a vacum land when they arrived in Kosova.

B92: Top class

To: Fitim and other "Kosovars"
Albania doesn't need to rule Kosovo. Kosovo is same as rest of Albania, it is one nation. Kosovo ruling Albania and Albania ruling Kosovo is the same but this expression sounds weird. Nobody wants to rule anybody. Therefore Behar expressed himself wrongly but that does not justify your wording either. Are you one of these Kosovars that declared himself Yugoslav by the way?

Bush probably wasn't too worried about having his watch stolen: he didn't know how to read it anyway.

Then again, I wonder if the new owner does?

You know Walter, the most curious thing of serbs of this forum (because here is full of people like you)is that the only argument you have is just insulting albanians with low level stories. And this reminds me of some bookes of Ukshin Hoti (you know, the one that your soldiers killed in 1999...)where he analysed the attitude of radical serbs not to have arguments, but just to destroy the others. It's a real problem of identity. You should meditate about this. Try to create your own identity walter, without hanging on the other's one.

Behar
Did you see the video? It was stolen and its shocking to me that it surprises you. There is no difference between Kosovo and Bushs watch.

Serbs are finding all these weapons. I want to see what the UN will do if the albans attack them or Serbs. Russia will make such a international scam of that, that in the end you will be subdued by those who are there to protect you. Rather entertaining for Serbs to watch from the sidelines. Waiting for UN to give up on KOSOVO.

Celebralis

You are mixing things up, yes of course we are one nation, yes of course we are one and the same, yes of course we appreciate and are indebted to Albania for its support, and no of course I am not a Yugoslav because there is no slavic blood in me.

However I was merely stating that an independent Kosova means just that, Independent with a government based in Pristina.

Of course, we do get access to the Albanian ports (wink, wink)

all the albanians on this thread are trying to make out that Bush's security guards took his watch off him for protection. If that's true, then why did they have to go into the crowd to take it off him. why didn't they just ask him to take it off for safekeeping? i would have some respect for you if you'd admitted that it was an albanian who stole it and not Bush's personal security.

"i would have some respect for you if you'd admitted that it was an albanian who stole it and not Bush's personal security."

Actually I stole it. I was there, I confess.
Now what is your point? I thought we were talking about Kosova independence? Or maybe there is nothing to say anymore about it. It's a done deal right?

Bush's watch fell - check the video again, he actually looks down for it when it falls. A bodyguard took the watch and Bush now has it, so rest assured fellow Serbs. I would like to thank the Serbs for their honest worries about the fate of President Bush's watch. It is now safe and with its owner, just like Kosovo is now safe and with its owners, the Albanians.

Bush is lucky his drawers were not stolen........

Albanians, take care!
Berisha is a serbian secret agent! :)

your newspapers are really great for amusement. maybe that´s the reason why Albanians come to a serbian web-site to express their wishful thinking?

"nomadic Serbs" hahaha are you serious??

Serbs have a clear history and understanding of wht they are and where they came from. Kosovo is our ancient homeland. But please tell me where the Albanian people come from? And dont confuse yourselves more, youre from some ancient Illyrian tribe.

I dont understand this anger many serbs show here to the Republic of Albania, as this country ever caused any bad to them. I check history records and I dont find any reason. Still, I find here in this forum serbs talking about albanian thiefs, albanian poor, albanian dirty and other racist stuff like this. Just in case you need a few facts and figures I have from first hand (given I live in Tirana):
Albania's GDP per capita is 5600 USD, Serbia's is 4200.
Albania's economic growth is 6-7%, Serbia's is 3-4%. Albania has access to two seas (Ionian and Adriatic), Serbia is landlocked as hell. Albania shares the borders with Italy and Greece, Serbia, with Bulgaria and Romania. And finally, Albania has choosen the right side as its ally, USA and it has a really strong political and economical lobby at the US, Serbia counts to Russia and its stronger lobbyst is the patriarch of russian orthodox curch.
Albania is eager to share its development with the natural brothers of an independent Kosovo, Serbia is not ready to call albanians in Kosovo as equal citizens of it.
Now, you decide where and with whom Kosovo has a future.

To: Kosovari or Fitim or whatever

You mean you get access to Albanian ports like a proud independent state right? Sounds funny to me, you can have access to everything cause I have no more right in Republic of Albania then you. Anyway think inside the box as you wish.

Kosovari wrote:
"Albania openly sides with Kosova on the issue of independence because it shares the shame values with Europe and USA - hence the backing it receives."

Firstly, don't disguise your dream of Greater Albania via independence, in substitution for Western Values and democracy...

If Martians came from Mars, and supported Kosovo independence, then you'd be painting your faces green and clapping for the great leader called Zoltar...


Although i understand the need for Albanians to grow economically, you naturally look to the west for support..

But please, for the love of God, what you SAY and what you DO are two totally different things..

NEWS FLASH - Albanian Kosovars and Albanians meet to judfe value of Bush's watch on Black Market. Maybe Clinton will buy it, and give it to Monica. This is all too complicated international power-brokering for me. I just want to feel free and safe visiting my Serbian heritage churches in Metohija. I'm sure Bush will secure that for me.....Hope he gets a new Mickey Mouse watch, they are hard to find now.

It doesn't matter who took the watch - the issues is it was stolen by Dino - he admitted it:)

Once again, people are being fooled by an Bush's presence in Tirana. Bush doesn't care about any land that doesn't contain OIL!!

Just give him a chance, he'll try (key word is TRY) and do something with Russia too. Bush in one corner, the cowboy and Putin in the other, the Black Belt - who do you think walk away the victor in that one?

yeah serbs, keep yourselves happy with the story about the watch, as you have nothing else to argue for...
President Bush is very very happy with his visit in Albania, Albanians showed high culture of friendship and how a guest such the president of USA should be welcomed. Serbs and all the others are very jelaous for this fact. This is why serbs have nothing else to say but argue for the watch.

Liria like your Mr. Hoti I am a historian but unlike your Mr. Hoti I am an internationalist who opposes Canada’s international policies when they harm others or when they interfere in national sovereignty of other nations. Also unlike your Mr. Hoti I oppose these policies through the legal system of Canada. Your Mr Hoti who was educated in Zagreb and Belgrade at the expense of the citizens of Yugoslavia advocated by all means including violence, Kosovo's unification with Albania. True or not true?. Is it an insult to quote a reputable international newspaper that states most of the cars in Albania are stolen? True or not true? The Guardian also states that the people who greeted Bush had to pass through metal detectors before being allowed to cheer him, true or not true? I also read in the Guardian that “during “the rush hour [in Tirana] the smoke and dust is as thick as fog, the air heavy with lead and tiny particles called PM10s. True or not true? When the guardian writes about Yugoslavia I challenge them with evidence, you on the other hand have none so you tell me to meditate on Mr. Hotis comment and “ analysed the attitude of radical serbs not to have arguments, but just to destroy the others” . What is your point? Are Serbs radical when they defend their nation and Albanians are moderate when they take up arms against the nation in which they live? Lira you advise that I should “meditate about this [and] Try to create your own identity”. Look around you Lira, everything you see has a Serbian name and history. Serbs know who they are and so do I. I know that I was born in Yugoslavia and now I live in Canada and I have read extensively about Yugoslavia and Albanians in Yugoslavia. . Does my memory supply evidence of this all by itself, for instance, or does it count as evidence only insofar as we can check it against other evidence available to us and accept it or reject it. I think the truth lies somewhere between the two but you don’t you think that the truth is only as you see it. I know that from what many have posted here, particularly the Serbs, that you say have insulted you with the truth has not made you wiser but I am sure that you are now better informed.

To all the Serbs...

What scares you so much about US supporting and mentoring Kosova Independence and statehood?

Your churches in Belgrade lay empty and you think this would convince the west? About losing land, you lost Slavonija and Krajina, and what happened? Nothing, more SErbs have returned since these lands returned to their rightful owners, than before. Serbs cried WAR and other such nonsense regarding Montenegro's independence, what happened? NOTHING. Life is better for all people there. Serb rights weren't trampled on, they didn't lose their homes..etc. And, now we come to Kosova and again, the rhetorical tripe hits the fan in belgrade.

Seriously Serbs, tell us why you fear the independence of Kosova and the Albanians?

this is the video about really what happen about the watch
http://www.poroj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=1

www.poroj.com

just for verification purposes
watch the video in
www.poroj.com
you will CLEARLY SEE that Bush took his watch from his wrist and put it in his right pocket
so if someone want to blamw sombody else for nothing it shows here
this is a great example how the myth menatlity distort the reality and the facts
when you are going to wake up
please
you are driving me insane
I feel i have been drunk all my life and living in a shlivo fog

Kosovari, of course you do get to access the ports. Our houses and our hearts are always open as they have always been. Government in Prishtina, Independence for Kosova and power to the people! You should be the owners of your own house and your own fate and nobody else.

Bush dropped his watch, time 00:54!
As you may notice in the video:
link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKDdF6vfjoo,

Bush's wristwatch fell off at some point, but it has been confirmed by media (VizionPlus TV) that it was found by the bodyguards who handed it over to Lady Bush later on. And you will see in many other videos Bush wearing his watch again while entering Air Force One during departure as he waives back to us. If he had a spare watch, most likely it would have been inside the airplane, therefore, there is no doubt that Bush got his original watch back and everything was accidental. So, don't worry, be happy, time is still ticking on and everything is in Bush's hands! Kosovo will be Independent soon, think of 4th July 2007 as the day of happening, where we can celebrate together with Americans, The Independence Day.

Sorry to burst your buble, serbian camp, but see what NBC's got to say about that watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rntPPNL2hTo

To Ratko,

I said Serbians - Nomadic people who settled in Kosova - that is to say travellers, and I thought even your own history books tell you that.

You have been conditioned toassume however that you were the first ones to settle in Kosova - now come on,do you actually believe this? What exactly is your theory on this?

The Illyrians are dead? They vanished in thin air, but what's more puzzling is that this Albanian people also turned out of nowhere, no reports of mass migrations (like there are about the Serbs), no reports by any reputable historians of new settlers in the Balkans, nothing, zilch. Perhaps we arrived by means of an extraterrestial ship.

Walter,
I've known a lot of people like you that claim to be internationalists, but when it comes to talk about their own country (and this is mostly noticed in serbs) they put another chip in the brain and become others! I'm sorry to confuse you, but if you were a real historian you would be more cautios not to lose some slanted details.
Prof Ukshin Hoti was educated in the University of Zagreb, Belgrade and then in Chicago and Harvard too. He didn't have the opportunity to study in the University of Prishtina as it was allowed only in 1970 when he was already degreed (he was born in 1943).The university of zagreb and belgrade were financed by him and all the other albanians that lived in Yugoslavia those times as they had to pay taxes in the state they were told to live in! So, stop telling the untruth. Concerning to him you should get informed and I strongly recomend to read his books, you'll have other points of view in your hand about the difficuilt relations between albanians and yugoslavs in general and serbs in particular. What about the fact that albanian language was recognized in yugoslavia only in 1974 (as an ethnic minority language)when albanians in this country were the third most numerous after serbs and croats?? Medidate about this and meditate about why Prof. Ukshin Hoti was academically fighting for. A civil state doesn't imprison you for requiring your rights. These are the facts!
Regarding to the other facts you mentioned the fenomen of the stolen cars is a passed story and it was a fenomen in Serbia and in all the other countries with difficuilt transition in a better life (do you remember the story of the car of Beckham and one minister of Macedonia?). Enviromental pollution is a global problem, true or not true???
What builds an insult my dear Walter is that facts are used in a slanted mood and put there together confusely without any logic connection with the argument of the discussion. This is an old tactic when you have no arguments and just try to divert the attention in other directions. It is not the first time that serbs use it and it is highly spread in serbs I've known to denigrate others ("bulgarians are thieves how could they join EU; romanians work in Serbia to earn more, how could they join EU; even romas are EU citizens and we not"). Don't you think it is a problem of identity??
Another fact: Balkan means mountain in turkish and our peninsula is called like this by us too (and all the rest of the world) because when turks came in the balkans what they noticed were the mountains. Does this mean that we (all balkan people) are all turks?The people that lived there had not given a name to their place. They had never felt the need to name a place that was theirs...So, I would'nt rely so much in the names of the places in the Balkans.
Finally: Prof. Ukshin Hoti was killed by the state he belonged to, while you are alive and in good conditions as I see.

President Bush took off his watch because he was afraid of 'loosing' it once he decided to get up close with his fans. If he felt it was 'coming loose', it would be because of all those people pawing at him.

"your newspapers are really great for amusement. maybe that´s the reason why Albanians come to a serbian web-site to express their wishful thinking?
(Jovan, Tuesday, 12 June, 2007, 21:43) "


And what would be the reason that Serbian journalists are comming to Albania to seek political asylum? Serbia is a dictatorial state, where freedom of press is under attack by the government and the more Serbia slides towards Russia and its values, the harder it will be for journalists to report freely. Kudos to B92, for the courage, however as a bigger and more visible outlet it is harder for the govt to put them under pressure. Journalists in smaller newspaper are not so lucky though.

This was on Albanian newspapers yesterday:
http://www.peshkupauje.com/gazetarja-serbe-kerkon-azil-politik-ne-kukes/2007/06/12/

Redica Petrovic, a local journalist from Zaicar, asked for political asylum yesterday at the border crossing of Vermica, Kukes. Petrovic, 47, works in the local media, and declared that lately she had written a series of articles, that had not been received will by the government. She feels that her life is threatened and she asked for political asylum.

TO LILLY - There is no fear of the independence of KosovO cause it will not happen.

To your point of losing this & losing that - it's because they weren't albanians! You said it yourself - "we" come to KosovO - that's where the "rhetorical tripe hits the fan" - You're coming to our land & desecrating our churches, graves, homes & lives. That didn't happen anywhere else.

Does that answer your question - seriously!

I don't understand why Serbia has relations with Albania. That country trained and supplied the KLA.

Also, in Albania President Bush had his wristwatch stolen as he shook hands with the crowd. It's on video at around 57 seconds into it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKDdF6vfjoo

I would like to add that the media in Prishtina has also announced for the informal meeting between Albanian primeminister and kosovar President and Primeminister... Anyway this doesnt really matter but what matters is that Berisha gave the message of Mr. Bush for FULL SUPPORT FOR INDEPENDENCE OF KOSOVA as you all know.

From what I recall in 2004, Ceku and a few other Albanian politicians met with John Kerry. Soon afterwards, there was the March riots. Perhaps they were told to go ahead and carry out the riots. I don't know, but I do know that Americans are brilliant at having other people do their dirty work. Remember Krajina? Americans participated in that, but of course, the Hague has only indicted the Croats for it. So here we have a secret meeting. I wonder what George Bush told them. He probably gave them the greenlight to finish the job.

Its not a secret. It was announced in the Albanian media.

Do you know what was said? Then its a secret meeting. Maybe Bush told them if I dont get my watch back you are on your own.

Ida,

wow thanks for the link - yes Bush was welcome like any other mug about to be a victim of crime!!! One wonders if he even knew what happened and is still wondering where is watch went!!! It is evident that the hand came from the crowd and swiped it - what a welcome!!!!

All these secret talks imply that they need to discuss other othings other then the fact that they have now lost cerdibility!!

Secret meeting?! No, it was just to show to all the world and Albanians especially, that for Kosovo is competent Tirana and notPristina, and that independent Kosovo will be actuall for a very short terms-United Albania is real target. Bush visit in Tirana, was a symbolic act for a same purpose: make clear to K-Albanians that Pristina will be ruled by Tirana.

Haha, of course I have to laugh when i see useless comments from some people pretending that Bush's watch has been stolen. This is completely unbelievable.
Some people here try to put down the welcome of albanians for President Bush and have nothing else to say but that his watch was stolen.

Remember, BUSH OPENLY DECLARED PRO INDEPENDENCE OF KOSOVA IN THE MIDDLE OF TIRANA.

Princip, Ida.
The watch was taken by Bush's bodygards(probably as a security measure). Have a closer look at the video. Bush had his watch when he waved goodbye from the Air Force One stairs. This only shows how you make conclusions and it shows your understanding of truth!! For you, with the same superficial viewpoint, Kosovo was, is and will be Serbia forever!! You just have to look closer and see that the truth might be somewhat different! Cheers.

Guy, the wrist watch is turned back (according to the latest news).
Fortunately, it was assured as well, so there is no need to worry about any more.
But the relevance lies on the result of the very sensitive issue, and it isn’t in favor of those who live with myths and stories even today.
Suma samarum; in these situations, I wouldn’t have been happy, even if the wrist watch of someone I don’t like was lost.

cheers

To behar

You have to forget that Prishtina will by rulled by Tirana.
Neither Tirana nor Belgrad can rule Prishtina. That time has gone forver

Meeting cant be secret if we know about it. As for the message we can plausibly speculate that Mr. Berisha conveyed to the Kosovar's the US command: thou shalt not declare independence unilaterally.

To Cvele:
Bush's watch was not stolen but taken away by it's body guards. See for the records while Bush hailes from stairways while leaving Albania. Watch was on his hand

The Daily Mail reports: “The waiting crowds in Fushe Kruje [Albania] had been passed through metal detectors before being allowed and security men in dark suits and sunglasses almost outnumbered the well-wishers. [---] Someone pulled him, someone grabbed him and someone took his watch." I had my watch taken on stage in front of four hundred onlookers and everyone thought I participated in the slight of hand. You have to admire the skill of this thief. I forgot to ask the man who took my watch if he learned this skill in Albania? On a side trip from Corfu to Tirana I read in the Guardian that “Most of the cars in Albania are stolen; no one knows how many there are and [what parts of Europe] they come from”. If you want to visit Albania you better wear a gas mask since during “the rush hour the smoke and dust is as thick as fog, the air heavy with lead and tiny particles called PM10s, which harm the lungs and cause cancer” No wonder they had George visit a village some 20 km from Tirana.

Behar wrote:
"Bush visit in Tirana, was a symbolic act for a same purpose: make clear to K-Albanians that Pristina will be ruled by Tirana"

Just like fish in a bowl, politicians will fight to get the power...

On a side note....

Why is it that Albania openly sides for an independent Kosovo, and it's upheld and praised, yet any sign or mention of Serbia doing the same thing is considered Land grabbing in the name of a "Greater Serbia"??

Pijetro,

excellent question! Moreover, when you consider that the UN also oversaw Krajina before the Croatians ethnic-cleansed 250,000+ serbs in 1995 the contradiction is all the more evident! Which is why Putin said;

"If we come to the conclusion that the principle of a nation's right to self-determination is more important than territorial integrity then we will have to stick to that principle all over the world,"

He is setting out exactly what consequences such reckless actions Mr Bush will set in motion!!!

* Albania openly sides with Kosova on the issue of independence because it shares the shame values with Europe and USA - hence the backing it receives. It does not of course share the vision of an ex-KGB thug who's recent attempt to play the superpower once again.
* Kosova will be independent because there is no ways you guys are coming back - that is to say your tanks, your government rather than Kosovar Serbs. No rule from Belgrade and certainly no rule from Tirana.

* To some commentators - we have never ever been outnumbered by Serbians in Kosova despite many attempts to expel the Albanians en masse - Every world history book and reputable demographer will confirm that (except serbian ones of course). The nomadic Serbian people, including Serbs did not find a vacum land when they arrived in Kosova.

B92: Top class

To: Fitim and other "Kosovars"
Albania doesn't need to rule Kosovo. Kosovo is same as rest of Albania, it is one nation. Kosovo ruling Albania and Albania ruling Kosovo is the same but this expression sounds weird. Nobody wants to rule anybody. Therefore Behar expressed himself wrongly but that does not justify your wording either. Are you one of these Kosovars that declared himself Yugoslav by the way?

Bush probably wasn't too worried about having his watch stolen: he didn't know how to read it anyway.

Then again, I wonder if the new owner does?

You know Walter, the most curious thing of serbs of this forum (because here is full of people like you)is that the only argument you have is just insulting albanians with low level stories. And this reminds me of some bookes of Ukshin Hoti (you know, the one that your soldiers killed in 1999...)where he analysed the attitude of radical serbs not to have arguments, but just to destroy the others. It's a real problem of identity. You should meditate about this. Try to create your own identity walter, without hanging on the other's one.

Behar
Did you see the video? It was stolen and its shocking to me that it surprises you. There is no difference between Kosovo and Bushs watch.

Serbs are finding all these weapons. I want to see what the UN will do if the albans attack them or Serbs. Russia will make such a international scam of that, that in the end you will be subdued by those who are there to protect you. Rather entertaining for Serbs to watch from the sidelines. Waiting for UN to give up on KOSOVO.

Celebralis

You are mixing things up, yes of course we are one nation, yes of course we are one and the same, yes of course we appreciate and are indebted to Albania for its support, and no of course I am not a Yugoslav because there is no slavic blood in me.

However I was merely stating that an independent Kosova means just that, Independent with a government based in Pristina.

Of course, we do get access to the Albanian ports (wink, wink)

all the albanians on this thread are trying to make out that Bush's security guards took his watch off him for protection. If that's true, then why did they have to go into the crowd to take it off him. why didn't they just ask him to take it off for safekeeping? i would have some respect for you if you'd admitted that it was an albanian who stole it and not Bush's personal security.

"i would have some respect for you if you'd admitted that it was an albanian who stole it and not Bush's personal security."

Actually I stole it. I was there, I confess.
Now what is your point? I thought we were talking about Kosova independence? Or maybe there is nothing to say anymore about it. It's a done deal right?

Bush's watch fell - check the video again, he actually looks down for it when it falls. A bodyguard took the watch and Bush now has it, so rest assured fellow Serbs. I would like to thank the Serbs for their honest worries about the fate of President Bush's watch. It is now safe and with its owner, just like Kosovo is now safe and with its owners, the Albanians.

Bush is lucky his drawers were not stolen........

Albanians, take care!
Berisha is a serbian secret agent! :)

your newspapers are really great for amusement. maybe that´s the reason why Albanians come to a serbian web-site to express their wishful thinking?

"nomadic Serbs" hahaha are you serious??

Serbs have a clear history and understanding of wht they are and where they came from. Kosovo is our ancient homeland. But please tell me where the Albanian people come from? And dont confuse yourselves more, youre from some ancient Illyrian tribe.

I dont understand this anger many serbs show here to the Republic of Albania, as this country ever caused any bad to them. I check history records and I dont find any reason. Still, I find here in this forum serbs talking about albanian thiefs, albanian poor, albanian dirty and other racist stuff like this. Just in case you need a few facts and figures I have from first hand (given I live in Tirana):
Albania's GDP per capita is 5600 USD, Serbia's is 4200.
Albania's economic growth is 6-7%, Serbia's is 3-4%. Albania has access to two seas (Ionian and Adriatic), Serbia is landlocked as hell. Albania shares the borders with Italy and Greece, Serbia, with Bulgaria and Romania. And finally, Albania has choosen the right side as its ally, USA and it has a really strong political and economical lobby at the US, Serbia counts to Russia and its stronger lobbyst is the patriarch of russian orthodox curch.
Albania is eager to share its development with the natural brothers of an independent Kosovo, Serbia is not ready to call albanians in Kosovo as equal citizens of it.
Now, you decide where and with whom Kosovo has a future.

To: Kosovari or Fitim or whatever

You mean you get access to Albanian ports like a proud independent state right? Sounds funny to me, you can have access to everything cause I have no more right in Republic of Albania then you. Anyway think inside the box as you wish.

Kosovari wrote:
"Albania openly sides with Kosova on the issue of independence because it shares the shame values with Europe and USA - hence the backing it receives."

Firstly, don't disguise your dream of Greater Albania via independence, in substitution for Western Values and democracy...

If Martians came from Mars, and supported Kosovo independence, then you'd be painting your faces green and clapping for the great leader called Zoltar...


Although i understand the need for Albanians to grow economically, you naturally look to the west for support..

But please, for the love of God, what you SAY and what you DO are two totally different things..

NEWS FLASH - Albanian Kosovars and Albanians meet to judfe value of Bush's watch on Black Market. Maybe Clinton will buy it, and give it to Monica. This is all too complicated international power-brokering for me. I just want to feel free and safe visiting my Serbian heritage churches in Metohija. I'm sure Bush will secure that for me.....Hope he gets a new Mickey Mouse watch, they are hard to find now.

It doesn't matter who took the watch - the issues is it was stolen by Dino - he admitted it:)

Once again, people are being fooled by an Bush's presence in Tirana. Bush doesn't care about any land that doesn't contain OIL!!

Just give him a chance, he'll try (key word is TRY) and do something with Russia too. Bush in one corner, the cowboy and Putin in the other, the Black Belt - who do you think walk away the victor in that one?

yeah serbs, keep yourselves happy with the story about the watch, as you have nothing else to argue for...
President Bush is very very happy with his visit in Albania, Albanians showed high culture of friendship and how a guest such the president of USA should be welcomed. Serbs and all the others are very jelaous for this fact. This is why serbs have nothing else to say but argue for the watch.

Liria like your Mr. Hoti I am a historian but unlike your Mr. Hoti I am an internationalist who opposes Canada’s international policies when they harm others or when they interfere in national sovereignty of other nations. Also unlike your Mr. Hoti I oppose these policies through the legal system of Canada. Your Mr Hoti who was educated in Zagreb and Belgrade at the expense of the citizens of Yugoslavia advocated by all means including violence, Kosovo's unification with Albania. True or not true?. Is it an insult to quote a reputable international newspaper that states most of the cars in Albania are stolen? True or not true? The Guardian also states that the people who greeted Bush had to pass through metal detectors before being allowed to cheer him, true or not true? I also read in the Guardian that “during “the rush hour [in Tirana] the smoke and dust is as thick as fog, the air heavy with lead and tiny particles called PM10s. True or not true? When the guardian writes about Yugoslavia I challenge them with evidence, you on the other hand have none so you tell me to meditate on Mr. Hotis comment and “ analysed the attitude of radical serbs not to have arguments, but just to destroy the others” . What is your point? Are Serbs radical when they defend their nation and Albanians are moderate when they take up arms against the nation in which they live? Lira you advise that I should “meditate about this [and] Try to create your own identity”. Look around you Lira, everything you see has a Serbian name and history. Serbs know who they are and so do I. I know that I was born in Yugoslavia and now I live in Canada and I have read extensively about Yugoslavia and Albanians in Yugoslavia. . Does my memory supply evidence of this all by itself, for instance, or does it count as evidence only insofar as we can check it against other evidence available to us and accept it or reject it. I think the truth lies somewhere between the two but you don’t you think that the truth is only as you see it. I know that from what many have posted here, particularly the Serbs, that you say have insulted you with the truth has not made you wiser but I am sure that you are now better informed.

To all the Serbs...

What scares you so much about US supporting and mentoring Kosova Independence and statehood?

Your churches in Belgrade lay empty and you think this would convince the west? About losing land, you lost Slavonija and Krajina, and what happened? Nothing, more SErbs have returned since these lands returned to their rightful owners, than before. Serbs cried WAR and other such nonsense regarding Montenegro's independence, what happened? NOTHING. Life is better for all people there. Serb rights weren't trampled on, they didn't lose their homes..etc. And, now we come to Kosova and again, the rhetorical tripe hits the fan in belgrade.

Seriously Serbs, tell us why you fear the independence of Kosova and the Albanians?

this is the video about really what happen about the watch
http://www.poroj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=1

www.poroj.com

just for verification purposes
watch the video in
www.poroj.com
you will CLEARLY SEE that Bush took his watch from his wrist and put it in his right pocket
so if someone want to blamw sombody else for nothing it shows here
this is a great example how the myth menatlity distort the reality and the facts
when you are going to wake up
please
you are driving me insane
I feel i have been drunk all my life and living in a shlivo fog

Kosovari, of course you do get to access the ports. Our houses and our hearts are always open as they have always been. Government in Prishtina, Independence for Kosova and power to the people! You should be the owners of your own house and your own fate and nobody else.

Bush dropped his watch, time 00:54!
As you may notice in the video:
link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKDdF6vfjoo,

Bush's wristwatch fell off at some point, but it has been confirmed by media (VizionPlus TV) that it was found by the bodyguards who handed it over to Lady Bush later on. And you will see in many other videos Bush wearing his watch again while entering Air Force One during departure as he waives back to us. If he had a spare watch, most likely it would have been inside the airplane, therefore, there is no doubt that Bush got his original watch back and everything was accidental. So, don't worry, be happy, time is still ticking on and everything is in Bush's hands! Kosovo will be Independent soon, think of 4th July 2007 as the day of happening, where we can celebrate together with Americans, The Independence Day.

Sorry to burst your buble, serbian camp, but see what NBC's got to say about that watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rntPPNL2hTo

To Ratko,

I said Serbians - Nomadic people who settled in Kosova - that is to say travellers, and I thought even your own history books tell you that.

You have been conditioned toassume however that you were the first ones to settle in Kosova - now come on,do you actually believe this? What exactly is your theory on this?

The Illyrians are dead? They vanished in thin air, but what's more puzzling is that this Albanian people also turned out of nowhere, no reports of mass migrations (like there are about the Serbs), no reports by any reputable historians of new settlers in the Balkans, nothing, zilch. Perhaps we arrived by means of an extraterrestial ship.

Walter,
I've known a lot of people like you that claim to be internationalists, but when it comes to talk about their own country (and this is mostly noticed in serbs) they put another chip in the brain and become others! I'm sorry to confuse you, but if you were a real historian you would be more cautios not to lose some slanted details.
Prof Ukshin Hoti was educated in the University of Zagreb, Belgrade and then in Chicago and Harvard too. He didn't have the opportunity to study in the University of Prishtina as it was allowed only in 1970 when he was already degreed (he was born in 1943).The university of zagreb and belgrade were financed by him and all the other albanians that lived in Yugoslavia those times as they had to pay taxes in the state they were told to live in! So, stop telling the untruth. Concerning to him you should get informed and I strongly recomend to read his books, you'll have other points of view in your hand about the difficuilt relations between albanians and yugoslavs in general and serbs in particular. What about the fact that albanian language was recognized in yugoslavia only in 1974 (as an ethnic minority language)when albanians in this country were the third most numerous after serbs and croats?? Medidate about this and meditate about why Prof. Ukshin Hoti was academically fighting for. A civil state doesn't imprison you for requiring your rights. These are the facts!
Regarding to the other facts you mentioned the fenomen of the stolen cars is a passed story and it was a fenomen in Serbia and in all the other countries with difficuilt transition in a better life (do you remember the story of the car of Beckham and one minister of Macedonia?). Enviromental pollution is a global problem, true or not true???
What builds an insult my dear Walter is that facts are used in a slanted mood and put there together confusely without any logic connection with the argument of the discussion. This is an old tactic when you have no arguments and just try to divert the attention in other directions. It is not the first time that serbs use it and it is highly spread in serbs I've known to denigrate others ("bulgarians are thieves how could they join EU; romanians work in Serbia to earn more, how could they join EU; even romas are EU citizens and we not"). Don't you think it is a problem of identity??
Another fact: Balkan means mountain in turkish and our peninsula is called like this by us too (and all the rest of the world) because when turks came in the balkans what they noticed were the mountains. Does this mean that we (all balkan people) are all turks?The people that lived there had not given a name to their place. They had never felt the need to name a place that was theirs...So, I would'nt rely so much in the names of the places in the Balkans.
Finally: Prof. Ukshin Hoti was killed by the state he belonged to, while you are alive and in good conditions as I see.

President Bush took off his watch because he was afraid of 'loosing' it once he decided to get up close with his fans. If he felt it was 'coming loose', it would be because of all those people pawing at him.

"your newspapers are really great for amusement. maybe that´s the reason why Albanians come to a serbian web-site to express their wishful thinking?
(Jovan, Tuesday, 12 June, 2007, 21:43) "


And what would be the reason that Serbian journalists are comming to Albania to seek political asylum? Serbia is a dictatorial state, where freedom of press is under attack by the government and the more Serbia slides towards Russia and its values, the harder it will be for journalists to report freely. Kudos to B92, for the courage, however as a bigger and more visible outlet it is harder for the govt to put them under pressure. Journalists in smaller newspaper are not so lucky though.

This was on Albanian newspapers yesterday:
http://www.peshkupauje.com/gazetarja-serbe-kerkon-azil-politik-ne-kukes/2007/06/12/

Redica Petrovic, a local journalist from Zaicar, asked for political asylum yesterday at the border crossing of Vermica, Kukes. Petrovic, 47, works in the local media, and declared that lately she had written a series of articles, that had not been received will by the government. She feels that her life is threatened and she asked for political asylum.

TO LILLY - There is no fear of the independence of KosovO cause it will not happen.

To your point of losing this & losing that - it's because they weren't albanians! You said it yourself - "we" come to KosovO - that's where the "rhetorical tripe hits the fan" - You're coming to our land & desecrating our churches, graves, homes & lives. That didn't happen anywhere else.

Does that answer your question - seriously!