The prospect of giving Kosovo to the Albanians post NATO war was always on the table with Clinton, in fact he wanted to do that but psycho President Milosevic would have none of it! In fact he refused to pull his troops from Kosovo unless there was assurances that Kosovo shall remain Serbian. And Clinton knew he could not bomb Serbia for much longer and that there would have to be a ground invasion of Serbia unless Milosevic gave up, there was no way NATO wanted to fight the Serbs on the ground, if they had it would have been much worse then what is going on in Iraq now, so Clinton made sure that in resolution 1244 it clearly stated that Kosovo remain Serbian.
Kosovars are getting independency because of people like you. From this forum everybody can see that Albanians were right on their intentions and goals...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
First and foremost, I am truly sorry for what you and your people suffered. I'm a Western Born Serb, so it is easier for me to be objective about such things. My wife is from Krajina, so I do understand how brutal the Balkans can be at times, and no one should suffer as your people did, regardless of their ethnicity.
If you're interested, I suggest you read "Guerilla Radio" by Matthew Collin, its all about B92 and what they went through during the Milosevic era. It might change some of your opinions on Serbs. We are not one unified block, and we disagree as much as any people.
As far as the Roma of Kosovo go, although I have no direct experience with that, I have seen Albanian posters here on B92 refer to Roma families in Kosovo as "Serbs" in a very negative context accusing them of crimes, at least the Serbian speaking Roma families, so I'm not convinced that they were not targeted by some sectors of Albanian society, but that's not really important…
You know, as far as the average Serb goes, I think its all very similar to the US in many regards. Somewhere around 50% of the American population believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the 9/11 Terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. Its more a matter of education and such, and not that all Serbs agreed with the harsh policies meted out towards your people.
So, personally, I support partition as I do believe your people should live as they wish. I do believe our churches represent the cradle of our civilization, so I would support granting Presevo Independence as well in exchange for some important concessions in regards to our cultural sites. I also believe that since the average Serb from Kosovo is just about as likely as the average Albanian to be counted among the dead, cleansed and missing that our population deserves to live under Serb rule. I'm not trying to belittle what you suffered, which was state sponsered terrorism, plain and simple, but the fact is the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims is roughly 1 to 10 mirroring the population. Doesn't matter to me the why, how, or when, just that both our people suffer when we are in the minority position, so maybe its better for us to go our separate ways for now.
As far as sanctioning Princip or Jovan, I think all ideas should be heard, even if to expose them as false. Jovan and I have disagreed with in the past, as well as other Serbs here. PB for example told me recently if I were Orthodox, he was a Martian. As far as Princip goes, I've never seen him make up numbers or use racist slurs. I've even seen him apologize for the crimes suffered by the Albanians. I think he's a decent guy and to be honest, I don't really understand why what he says upsets people so much? His vision seems to be one of living together in harmony, as naïve as I personally believe that to be, I am and always will be a Yugophile, so I actually agree with his vision, despite the fact that I don't think its really practical. If anyone should be censored, it should be Ahmet's lies that Serbs drowned those two boys in the river that started the 2004 riots, this is clearly incitement to violence, it is actually a very very dangerous thing to say, people lost their lives as a result of these "rumors". Or possibly maybe Victor for libeling the Serbian nation as a whole with his made up numbers and actrocities motivated by hate and xenophobia. Although as I've stated before, in a way in this format it’s a positive thing to correct such disinformation as spouts from Victors mouth. Most of it is a repetition of early propaganda against Serbs that has been disproven later, such as 100,000 women raped in Bosnia, or 250,000 killed. Both numbers Victor still claims as true.
As far as Bush goes, the far right in the US has always been against the bombing of Serbia, so I'm not sure just how deep Bush's comittment to Kosovo really is. In fact, to be honest, as a Serb, if the democrats come to power, you will most certainly have stronger support from the US. So far all I've seen Bush do is make a comment or two, and then promptly forget exactly what it was that he said, which is very typical of Bush. So for those of you who think the Serbs are just stalling, I want you to know, that stalling really isn't in the best interest of the Serbs. Right now we actually have one of the most sypathetic regimes in power in the US, and we should focus on that.
If you don't know the history how do you think you can talk about the future, and I talk with facts, and most importantly is what happens behind the camera, President Bush knows Albanian history better than any foreigner and june 10th he said it wright. By the way none of albanians in Kosovo carry serbian passaports or any ID whatsoever because they are not worth it, in fact they are invalid since the end of the war 1999. It's time to celebrate the newest country in the world or country number 193.
10000 Albanian civilian were killed only during the last conflict hundred thousands were force to leave, Kosova is NOT yours anymore, if you want to be good neibourgh in the future you should feel sorry and appologise to Albanian nation, still masive grave are foumd in serbia
If Albania is Mother to you and all Kosovar Albanians then what are you doing in Serbia? Are you in Serbia illegally? Do you have a Serbian citizenship card or passport? Can you prove that you are in the country legally, if you can't you should be deported at once! That is what the Americans would do with Mexican illegals and even Canadien Illegals.
Serb politicians must understand that Kosovo is not going to go back under Serbia again! They are trying to blame it to the US, Ahtisari, etc., but the province and hopes for a peaceful living under Serbia were shattered like glass by Serb leadership in the first place.
Can you put together a shattered piece of glass?
Also, all former-communist Balkan countries are eager to become EU and NATO members. What this means is no boundaries and economic development. So, as much as upsetting the word independence is for the Serbia, Kosovo and Serbia will still be neighbors and in the long run both countries have to put behind them the past and think about a better future.
am sorry but you do not know what are you talking about and your writing shows a lot your background. Kosova is part of Albanian nation, the oldest nation living in this trouble side which is called Balkan.The oldest churches in Kosova are Albanian churches because we did belong before you in Christianity and the archeological side show our anciently and civilization since in Homeric and Pelasgic time.
The world community is coming to realise that there was NO genocide. it was perpetrated by the west (evil clinton) to serve their own agenda's. they employed the wanting and ignorant kla, which they trained, but the show is being exposed. like a cheap magic act. typical usa policy. send in the cia, make some trouble, train the local rebels, help create disaster, justify your presence, come in and be chief. i hate the way my country does business. i am ashamed of them (politicos).
I was trapped in Belgrade during the war. I was a student there. You right. Some Serbian News Agencies were reporting the attrocities. It had no effect. 98. If B92 was anti-Miloshevic, they can still be. How about sanctioning Princip's Miloshevic's type comments, and definetly banning Jovan's arrogant and racist comments.
I would like a response of this from editors of B92.
Hi Jovan!
With your third or fourth comment you just confirmed not only nervosnes but even panic too!
Dont vorry we are gonna live side by side each on its own!
Mathew, it was not just MILOSEVIC. Serbs try to blame him for everything, like it was just that guy with a great knife walking through the streets of Kosovo and killing everybody, meanwhile the innocent and peaceful serbs didnt have a clue of what that maniac was doing. The truth, actually is bitter: It was all the serbs backing him. I dont know of how B92 acted. From what I googled I learned that B92 was an independent radio channel which stood for the opposition interests within Serbia. That's all I know. Sorry again if I am missing facts. And respect for what they did, if they were able to raise against the common way of thinking around there and if they showed the other side of the story.
All I know is that except of Natasa Kandic, I never, never saw a single serb sayin "sorry" for what their army, police and fellow chetniks, (komits, sokole, or whatever you call them) from Kosovo did to albanians. Everybody was so proud to see how the "terrorists" were being smashed by the glorious Serbia. And everybody was convinced that the only guys in Kosovo seeking freedom were a bunch of islamic, dirty, longbirded, primitive terrorists. The truth is totally different. IT WAS ALL OF ALBANIANS. 2 millions. And I am impressed to see how serbs here try to count also other minorities of Kosovo as serb supporters. Actually, go and ask turks, croats, bosnians or even roma, what they think about Kosovo's independence. Except of serbs, everybody agrees: Kosovo deserves independence.
As for your last question, asking me where I was when albanians were hunting serbs the answer is: I was in Germany, because the serb army burned down my home in Gjakova, because the serb police ravaged my "butique".
Best regards.
"Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? (Mikel, Monday, 11 June, 2007, 12:33)"
Mikel, I can understand your anger and your frustration, but isn't it a little insulting to come onto B92 itself and claim not one single Serb did anything to help you, when the staff of B92 put their very lives on the line in order to bring the truth to the Serbian people about what was going on. Why can't you acknowledge that some Serbs were true heroes and stood up against Milosevic? There were in fact many of us that did not agree with what was going on. Many Serbs did in fact give their lives opposing Milosevic. Do you even know what B92 went through during the time period in which you discuss?
I'll turn the question around and ask where were you in 2004 when Albanians were hunting Serbs?
President Bush tried to remember what he said. He does remember how to emphasize the letter "o" in KosovO: http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2007/06/10/malveaux.bush.albania.visit.cnn&wm=11
I ACOMPLETELY AGREE with Mr Bush. Time has come to settle the Kosovo's rep0ort. For years now, Serbia is turning around and make nations are doing the same. Serbia cannot settles this; the USA, once again, will have to wear its big shoes and do the job. Serbia should have cooperated years ago with the UN, the USA and the EU, and Serbia failed... and we all know why: because of a stubborn Kostunica who is protecting pursued for war crimes, and pursuing at the same time the victimization of Serbia. It does not work like this. America knows, just as all the EU that the Serbs had a plan to cleanse Kosovo from all Albanians, just as Milosevic, Karadzic and the Serb general had a plan of committing a genocide against Bosnia. Here what I read this morning in Trbic's indictement: «The indictment alleges that Trbić entered an agreement with several others, including Generals Ratko Mladić, Milenko Živanović, Zdravko Tolimir and Radislav Krstić, to kill the able-bodied Bosnian Muslim men from Srebrenica that were captured or surrendered after the fall of Srebrenica on 11 July 1995 and remove the remaining Muslim population of Srebrenica and Žepa from Republika Srpska with the intent to destroy those Muslims.»
Bush knows this and he knows why the USA had to bomb Serbia to stop the genocide. It seems to me that Kostunica is the only one not to understand... and this is a big mistake that Bush won't tolerate for long.
The Albanians desserves 100 times Kosovo because of the way they were treated in 1999.
This is awsome. This tells that USA supports Kosova's indipendence totally and there will be nothing that will stop that. USA ROCKS!!!
(Hekuran, Sunday, 10 June, 2007, 15:13)
okay, this is the first one I'll mention. What bush did was say he supports you. Don't ever confuse his wants with our (American people) wants.
You have the support of a president with a 30% approval rating from the American people. That means 3 out of every 10 of us agree with him and feel he's doing a good job. So I wouldn't get to excited.
To take away 15% of the territory from a country that in 1998 and 1999 tried to kill and expel 22% of its own population? I think it’s a good deal.
Human rights violations are above questions about country borders, and the apologist Serbs should know that. And besides all mediaval religious orthodox myth, Kosovo was part of Serbia for a mere 300 years (first around 200 years during Middle Ages and close to 100 years during Serbo-Yugoslav years). Even if we count the time from the time the slavs came to the Balkans to today, we see that most of the time Kosovo was not part of Serbia, even when Serbia was a mere province of Turkey.
To justify the possession of a territory based on a battle that occurred in 1389 is simply ridiculous.
George W. Bush may be wrong in Iraq, but he’s right on Kosovo.
Don't you see you people that the world is divided on two blocks: with USA or another block with Russia (Serbia choosed this one). Of course we Albanians chooseed to be and support USA. We, Albanians are the people who always suffered by Russians alies will get independence.
“The United States has to find some other way to express its love and affection for the Albanians instead of giving them Serbian territory as a present,” Koštunica's words should be repeated by all albanians before they go to bed at night. Laku Noc everyone!
It does not matter of what kind of a president he is, what it matters the most to us is whom he represents.
George W Bush visiting Albania represents the American people; therefore he was given a warm welcome.
Any American presidents will be given such welcomes as long as the Lands of the Eagles will exist on this planet.
I can tell you this with certainty, against the humbling odds, mainly due to hostile neighbors our Lands of the Eagles will exist for long time to come, and the Americans will be welcomed at all times.
Of course, there was a diplomatic connotation of President Bush's speech in Tirana, but message was very clear: AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT AND NOW IS THE TIME...
Considering that this is declared after consultations at UNSC, CG and G8 everybody should be convinced that this is not his personal statement and statement of USA only, but statement and decision of whole international decision making structures, institutions and community. This message might be not clear only for them who doesn't want to receive it... Matter is that you may not want to receive it, but you can not change it eather...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
it is not 100 marines..., read my comment ( or the news ) more properly! the entire security was provided by american services. there is a difference.
and to the writer who thinks I am nervous:
sorry for you, buddy, but you are wrong. the level of nervousity seems to be very high on the k-albanian side, if we take a look on how you behave because of just a few words spoken by the US-president... =)
To Princip, UK.
You write in moderate way, but the esence is not different from what Milloshevic said on 1989. EU is for integrating all europian countries and nations economically, politically and socially, where all have to be EQUAL. Do you know how 'equal' was an albanian in Yougoslavia, and specially in Serbia, and how 'equal' was an serb in Kosova. That is the main problem, not any serb will accept to go back and be equal with an albanian. Have you ever been in Kosova before?
We can talk, of course, but after we are independent or be what we are: Albania. I would like to comment with you further, if you do have enough time and courage. Here is my email: ardiko82@walla.com
Hi Foks...here is another piece of news from Bush visi to Sofia...
Sofia. US President George Bush announced at a joint press conference with the Bulgarian Head of State Georgi Parvanov that he deeply respects the progress Bulgaria has made to build a free society, a journalist of FOCUS News Agency reported. As for the Kosovo status, Kosovo should be independent, the US Head of State confirmed.
Does anyone even take Bush seriously anymore?? He is a walking disaster, even the Americans say so! Now thats saying something. His little trip to Albania is of no consequence
I hope the Serbs will understand soon that Kosovo isn't anymore and was never an integral part of Serbia. It's over since the ending of Kosovo-War in 1999.
To all those who think that George Bush is the only one in the USA supporting a daydream independence of Kosovo. Take a look what will happen if today Bush resigns and democrats come over. Hillary Clinton's president. Bingo. The first act she will take is granting independence to Kosovo. She is an albanian lobbyst among the US Senat. So, sorry guys, but in the case of Kosovo, Bush is doing right, he has the full support of both sides of US politics, and he is walking in a very left wing and strong moral territory: AUTODETERMINATION of NATIONS.
Finally I have to add a thought to the very moving words of some serbian contributors in this forum about "reconciliation", "forgiveness" and "looking toward the bright future". I fully agree with that. It will come a day when albanians and serbs will sit together around a lovely table and will talk about this lovely notions. But first, justice must have been done. After they accept that all that big issue of "Kosovo cradle of serbs" is just a fiction built by Vuk Karadzic's books, and the only thing that matters is that 95% of the people in that occupied area never accepted their rule, THAN and only THAN we can start that process everybody is eager to see happening in the Balkans. We are so different. We can be good neighbors. But we shouldn't be allowed to rule each other. And don't talk me about: stop the great powers deciding our fate. It was a great power: Russia, which decided in 1913 that Albania should be mutilated (because it isn't slavic) and gave Kosovo to Serbia. Now, sorry, but the story is different. Who makes the rules is someone else, and Russia can only yell a little bit, but just that. But thanks God it is the age of internet, cable tv and satellites and everything what took place in the heart of Europe had witnesses. Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? So dear serbs, you lost your chance. And with that, you lost that territory of Albania which was given to you as a present by Russia. But which you treated like it was your "own" land forcing for years and years the inhabitants of that land to leave, or die.
Mikel, Tirana
Well, well… the US again reconfirming independence of Kosova...I have a sincere message for my neighbours Serbs, start thinking now about other parts of your country, Vojvodina, Sanxhak and Presheva Valley…as far as UNSC recognition, it doesn’t matter, we will act same as Slovenia did, unilateral declaration followed by recognition from most powerful and developed countries in the world, except poor countries Serbia and Russia. The US Rocks…God Bless the US...Cheers for United State of Albania
First, President Bush does not make policy decisions on his own, foreign policy decisions as important as those relating to Kosovo are carefully considered by Washington before statements, such as those made by Bush in Albania are issued. I would have thought even the Serbian posters here would understand this simple fact.
Second, the support of the US is the one and most important thing Albanians in general and Kosovar Albanians in particular care about. It was Woodrow Wilson that prevented Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria from tearing Albania to pieces and it will be President Bush who will make Kosovo an independent state.
A very interesting article in the daily Koha Ditore today read "A Phyrric Victory for Serbia in St.Petersburg" Although you may have the support of Mr.Putin and Russia the current position the Government of Serbia has taken will cost Serbia a lot in relations with the West.
I hope Serbia will soon understand that its future lies in the European Union and NATO. The Ballkans wants Serbia to join the EU and end the centuries of Serbian nationalism that have caused so much suffering and hate.
bush stance was all diplomatic. everybody knows that US is in favor of independence. of all his european tours, protestors are there. only in albania was he welcomed like a hero. all the advanced european coutries knows that he is the worst president of the USA and here comes a country giving him the 21 cannon salute.
i saw in the CNN the live telecast of the press conference. mr bush almost forgot what to say then he looked in his codigo. when he was asked about deadline he seemed shocked and couldnt give a date except the phrase > the time is now, the end goal is independence. these are diplomatic words. of course his ambassador in the UNSC is the lead actor in the YES vote. the BIG problem is russia. bush did not manage to comvince putin in the G8. without russia's yes means no independence even with cowboy bush overwhelming YES.
Princip,Jovan,Kate and others,
Specially you Lazar!
Don't be so nervous!
Don't panic!
If you are so sure that Kosova is not getting what it deserves (Independence),then why are you so nervous.
It i9s independent from 1999 and it will just be recognized it all!
As for seccurity of Bushs visit and the protocolar procedure,best picture was shown in that small vilage of Fushe Kruje when people brocked protocoles and expressed their devotion and love to US and President G.W.BUSH.
God Bless USA.
God Bless Albania!
God Bless albanians whenever they are!
Joe,
your absolutely right on the fact that Mr Bush as the President of the US cannot do what he blurted out over the weekend. I commend you for realising that this is not achievable via LEGAL processes of the UN. like you say;
"Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent."
I wish there were more critcal analysis from ethnic-Albaninan commentators. You undertsanding is spot on if Bush is to be held to his word then it will not be through the UN. Seeing as Bush has said "time is up" lets see him put this through the UN this week!!! More importantly lets see him take responsibility for his words and actions in the evident repurcusions that he has been warned can occur and also surely from the huge lesson you would have thought he learnt following on from his ill-thought actions in 2003!!!
I am certain Bush will need to visit Albania very soon to explain why he gave false hope and could not deliver on his predecessors dubiuos promise! Don't be surprised if he tries to back track this week on what he did or did not say!
Joe and others,
Why do you think I have being stating that we need to divert away from the path that such irresponsible words of Bush will result in - all will lose in pursuing such folly - no one deserves the misery of what would follow. Surely it is better that the barriers are removed and all the peoples of Serbia learn to find a way that is a win-win - it is in everyones best interest! Bush and the lack of thought in what happens next is not something that the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija needs - ask an Iraqi if they are happier now then they were before 2003???? Is this what you desire for Kosovo & Metohija???
Daniel, I have asked you previously to please provide evidence of your insinuations against me - look through the archives and either provide evidence or stop insulting - I am sure you are aware of the rules of these comments! Stick to the subject and please don't bring in your hatred at someone you have never even personally met - it does little for your credibility and adds very little to the comments page!!!
Finally I will add is that Ahtisaari 'Lite' (Ahtisaari + Serbian continued sovereignity) really is the best option possible and with Mr Bush suggesting "time is up" he has made this a finite time frame which he either backs down on in the next week or otherwise all will have lost out from his reckless words and actions that may follow!!
Jovan, 100 of secret service agents including marines were sent to Italy and all countries that were visited by Bush. So, Albanian was no exeption either.Som much for your coment.
Bush is talking unilateral recoginition because he knows the proposed resolution in its present form will not pass the UNSC.
The net result on the ground will be de facto partition -- the north declaring itself part of Serbia thru 1244.
Hot words from both sides will follow, but will not be allowed to translate into war because Nato is already overstretched in Afghanistan, Iran and Sudan. Nato will quietly tell Pristina that unilateral recognition is on condition that K-Albanians start economy building and not violence. In decades to come, the de facto partition will become de jour.
Kate,
it is time to put an end to the post WW2 world order (ruling of UN Security Council) since WW3 has already been fought and won by NATO against Warsaw PAct.
It is time to respect the will of the people.
That said EU and NATO should link Kosovo's independence recognition to protection of Serb minority end its effective represantation in Kosovar political Institutions.
i don't see here actually a real opinion of why and what Bush said. As we know there was no agreement on the G8 about Kosovo. And now suddenly he openly propagate an independent Kosovo? It is all fake people! Bush must say this because he wants his protection shields in The Czech Republic and in Poland. Not in Azerbeidjan because that's not in the influence sphere of the US. So, probably in 1-2 weeks you will see that Putin slowly will accpet it (or maybe it will go to Azerbeidjan) and in exchange the decision on Kosovo will be delayed, delayed and finally no one wants to talk about it then the Albanians only!
Goodmorning all,
I think now it is time for Serbian leadership that they no longer can keep Kosova. Kosova has its own leaders, its own institutions, its identity and language and practically it is independent since 1999. No one in Balkans wants to live with Serbs in one "federation". Especially Albanians of Kosova who had suffered so much under the Serbian oppression. They have shown their will, in different ways, ever since they were occupied by Serbia early 20th Century. Waiting to join Europe, that the past problems to disappear, it is just a fantasy, for both, serbs and albanians. Kosova is independent day by day. The sooner Serbians understands this the better for them. After all, the bloody 'Greater Serbian' nightmare is over. Do you get it? Kosova will soon recognised as an independent state and wise serbs know it.Its Over.
After signing over 4 billion in business deals in St. Petersburg Putin spoke out against American unilateralism. He also spoke out against the financial monopoly of the G8 saying “50 years ago, 60 per cent of world gross domestic product came from the Group of Seven industrial nations. Today, 60 per cent of world GDP came from outside the G7.” He wants changes so that interest of smaller nations are considered. He said that “Institutions created with a focus on a small number of active players sometimes look archaic, undemocratic and unwieldy. They are a far cry from recognising the existing balance of power,”
Putin also spoke about the Kosovo issue saying that “undermining Serbia’s sovereignty does not correspond to moral or legal norms’’, and “I got an impression that finally our arguments are being treated seriously by our G8 colleagues.’’
George Bush obviously did not get the message but that is understandable because it flies in the face of the American Agenda for the Twenty First Century” and its unilateral world vision.
Bush: Kosovo will get independence!!
Thank You, President for the support for kosova albanian people will always love your country thats why we send troops to iraq and afganistan.kosova is gonna be independent no matter what.thank you for coming to albania, albanian people will always love you and american people
Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent. At that time France tried to play the big boy by treatening to use her veto in the case of Irak. Nothing could stop superpower US. France was too little and impuissant to stand in its way. Now it will be the same. Russia has delusions of grandeur and feels that it can dictat the course of events. Well little Vlad will get the same lesson as little Jacques got 4 years ago.
Princip, those are fine words, pity you only use them when you and serbia are backed into a corner and want to pretend that everyone should get along, however as soon as something is said in media to put kosovo in corner, do you use the same words? No, you in fact continue the attack and makes you quiet two faced really. unfortuntately people in this forum dont forget.
There are negotiations to be done. The political campaign has worked so far.
Bush's display will not actually win respect. European politicians know that there are many issues in which he plays no part and of which he has no understanding.
Democratic Serbia has shown much willingness to be adaptable on issues but must be respected in defending its land.
Further negotiations are essential for the future of the region.
Serbia is increasingly being proactive in negotiating a wide range of topics and it will take on an increasingly important regional role. That cannot be the case for Kosovo.
One thing is clear: an American president doesn't just publicly commit to a policy if his administration is unsure about it.
There is a firm line on this: the US policy is to ensure the advent of a new Kosovar state.
Thus, it is only a matter of time when this happens. There's no doubt about IT happening.
There are two ways: one is thru a controlled UN process, in which case Russia can decide for its own where its interests lie; OR thru a unilateral pathway.
In either case, independence is where we'll end up at. The Russians know this: they know they can't stop it; they're either trying to push up the price for their eventual agreement, or they simply want to make themselves look relevant.
But, people tend to forget one fact: Kosovo is a western project - i cant seem to emphasize this enough! Thus, it will be settled on the West's terms.
If we end up on an uncontrolled unilateral pathway, the price will be paid mostly by the Serian minority in Kosovo, which will be stripped off its autonomy-level protections enshrined in the Ahtisari Plan. Doesn't seem to me they're a concern of anyone, including their brethren Slavs.
The Serbian pain over the 'loss' of Kosovo is long overdue: punishing them for the horrendous war crimes of 1990s, and teaching them a historical lesson on their destructive chauvenism.
it is time for serbian government to ask the american ambassador to leave serbia. it should be explained to him and the us administration that this kind of anti-serbian stand is not acceptable. serbia should freeze any further military / nato talks until the us apologize and the kosovo matter is resolved to serbia's satisfaction .
Christos: Kosovo can be declared an independent state since a war was fought (and won by NATO) and an external entity (the UN, through UNMIK) essentially became the government, provided security, etc.
The Serbian government hasn't been in power in Kosovo since 1999 as a result of UN Security Council Res. 1244. This means that Kosovo is already a independent state in practice, it just needs the official declaration.
If the US federal institutions violated every basic human right and committed genocide against Texas citizens, Texas governor would declare independence. Arnold would do the same thing if this was done to California citizens.
So spare us of the comparisons. Bangladesh was no precedent. Pakistan was no precedent. East Timor was no precedent. Kosova will be no precedent.
The only precedent that the independent Kosova will be known for is that if you commit genocide against an ethnic group, you will lose the right to govern that ethnic group and the territory that they reside in.
President Bush, Thank You.
I really regret not voting for you in 2000 and 2004.
we have all to be very gratefull to président Bush:at least a very clear message,without double understanding,without possibility of misinterpreting!
So now every body is fully aware of what the future of kosovo will beand each of us has to chose what he wants to do .
President Bush puts an end to the game of the serbian politician with the fate of kosovo serbs,président Bush puts aside the albanian frustration,and président Bush says that america will help both our countries in the future...
so my serbian guys,be brave for once,and accept that you were wrong in killing so many people,in destroying so many houses,in choising always the wrong side during these 20 years!
at the end ,be courageous:try to chose for an occidental future and not a russian one!
once again,thank you,mr president for being cristal clear!
I keep hearing from Serbs here how the US, the UK, France etc. should be dismembered. That is a complete state of denial. Wake up and realize that it is those countries that have the power to do whatever they want with Kosovo and not vice versa, meaning Serbia or even Russia have no power whatsoever to dismember those countries.
Observers widely regard Bush as a lame duck president in these last two years before the elections. In need of a cheap and easy PR success, he thought that preaching to the crowd (i.e. declaring his support for the 'independence' of Kosovo) would do it. Well, there's really nothing else he could say about Albanian with regards to human rights, poverty, crime etc. etc.
Why is he in Albanian? Since the end of the Cold War, Albanian has been regarded as strategic importance to the US, hence being the most regularly visited state by top us defense and military officials. It has only become more important since the agreement to build the Burgas-Volre pipeling, the US seeing its deepwater ports as its main assets.
So, this visit is not about the U.S. president's love for the albanian people, it's about the U.S. strategic interests and it always has been. The president's announcment is just the equivalent of the icing on the cake, i.e. to keep the people sweet. Like other major 'power' countries, the U.S. has 'friendly countries', but most are 'interests' rather than 'friends'. What the U.S. actually has 'in commmon' is very very few, and very very far apart.
"Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it"
@Vuk
hold your horses..
probably you and your srbs pals Wish you would trade Kosova for EU membership. you still have to deal with war criminals and other EU membership requirements.
Sadly President Bush, my commander in chief and the man I voted for in 2004, continues along the same failed lines that America committed in the Balkans in the 1990s.
American policy in the Balkans has failed and the government is afraid of admitting such a failure. President Bush, who I still support, was very critical of American intervention during the national debates with then Vice President Al Gore.
The realities on the ground are not irreversible but the west lacks the political will to do the right thing.
Read the BBC journal article about Bush coming to Albania.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6738275.stm
It is actually quite funny. Albanian army had to surrender their weapons! They stood there with their hands behind there backs. They renamed a street after Bush. And they are European? Europe is about protesting America!
Why is Bush not visiting Kosovo? It has nothing to do with security. He visited Iraq and came home alive. Anyway him not visiting Kosovo shows you how much he cares about you people.
Mr. Princip...I do agree with some of your thoughts such as “We all want the same thing-- to live freely” but did you ever asked yourself did Albanian people of former Yugoslavia ever “live freely”? No, Mr. Princip they never had any rights in any state of the former Yugoslavia. And do not forget Albanian people did not emigrate from Albania to Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece; that was, it is and it will be their land.
I liked this commend as well “I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires.” Yes, we all must learn “to put the past behind” but Albanian people can not do that because they are the one who were occupied and suffered for centuries, and if they remain part of Serbia (which it will not happen) how do they know the genocide against them will not happen again in the future. Mr. Princip, how about we give to the people of the Balkans what they want (independence) and then we all work together as neighbors
One think you should have add to your comment Mr. Princip is that Serbian citizens of Serbian heritage in Serbia and other neighboring countries should wake up and stop dreaming of “big Serbia”. Obviously it is not happening. Decades have past and nothing positive happened in Serbia or to Serbian people. Every move they made it was the wrong one and they lost every battle they had. Forget Russia they have tons of their own problems and they are not really a good sample to be looked at. Russia, with the promises of “big Serbia, is the one that brought Serbia and Serbian people to their original state THE “BEOGRADSKI PASHALUK”.
A sufficiently clear message from USA. As I said previously the more Serbia objects the more it pushes itself in the corner. Guess what's coming next? Vojvodina, Sandzak, Presevo Valley...there seem a consensus is building among Balkan nations that steps are needed to bring Serbia to its natural borders too..unless such post-Milosevic-Milosevic-inspired politics that is still practiced in Serbia stops once and forever.
my dear boys... I am surprised by this uproar among you! do you REALLY believe what Bush is saying to you? you buy everything, it seems!
now that they know there is no cheap bargain with the Russians possible and therefore no resolution passing the UNSC, that´s the only thing the US can do right now! calming down the albanian street.
but, after all, that´s nothing of importance, since the any status decision can only be made WITHIN the UNSC. do you get it?
it doesn´t really look very good, how you are degrading yourself by hailing mr.Bush.
Bush can say what he wants, history taught us that today's enemy is our tomorrow's friend.
USA have elections very soon, the hot potato for the USA is how to get out of Irag without it's image damaged. As for Kosovo, the solution will go along with the progress os Serbia towards the E.U.
You'll have to forgive Bush...his words don't necessarily reflect those of a bright individual.
I'm going to put this out on the table as thus: 1. Bush has no full idea what he's talking about, 2. He doesn't understand the ramifications of what may come about by his straight talk, 3. Nor could he locate where Serbia and/or Albania are on a map.
But anyway, if this decision does come about, it'll be up to the people of Southeastern Europe to follow the lead of what Princip in the UK said in paragraphs 4 and 5.
Independence for Kosovo is not an end in itself. We honestly have to learn to live together...forever. And we simply HAVE to do this. I mean, we're talking about an area that's so close together, that no amount of hatred can exist if any progress/friendliness/cooperation is to EVER emerge.
This isn't the Middle East, this is Europe. And we need to forgive more, hate less, and help one another get out of the hell we've been through in the past.
Bush can say whatever he wants, but his credibility in the world is close to zero. This is hardly making any news in the United States. Any stories relating to US-Russian relations being strained only seems to focus on the issue of missle defense systems in Europe. Kosovo is not even mentioned. Even the big newspapers like the New York Times or the Washington Post have stopped reporting any activities on Kosovo. Both papers have extensively written editorials in the past over how the province should be given independence. Now both are interestingly silent, with the occasional "pay attention to me" articles by Richard Holbrooke. Articles of Bush visiting Albania focused more or the wierdness of a country that adores him, rather than organizng protest rallies against him. The whole episode has become convoluted and selective in our press.
Still, Bush can say whatever he wants, but the question that no one is able to firmly answer is WHEN Kosovo will get its independence, HOW it will look after independence, and under what contexts will indepdendence come. It seems to me that if the Albanians' wish is to come true, considerable concessions will have to be given to both Serbia and Russia; more than what is being offered now, and I think many Albanians will be quite upset to see the type of state that results from their "independence by any means" campaign. So right now, Bush saying "Kosovo should be independent" has about as much depth as "Iraq should be democratic": in theory it would solve a lot of problems, but it's a long long way from manifesting.
Thank you USA, thank you Mr.Bush, thank you West... Finally ex Yugoslavia is dead and Kosova Free... Sorry Serbia, you are going East and we are very close to West --> Serbs have chosen wrong way..Good luck to you as well... Regards from Prishtina
To the Serbs that kept doubting if US will unilaterally recognize Kosova's independence, read what Bush said: "At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, Kosovo is independent" How can he be more clear than that!
So US will recognize Kosova and so will most EU countries, UK, Germany, France etc and the relevant Balkan countries, Albania, Macedonia, Croatia Slovenia and Bosnia. That is all we need. Russia will be proven again that is of no importance in this matter.
Albanian people received again guarantee for its independence from the USA President Bush.
Thank you dear Mr. President.
It is historical day!
God blessed Amerika!
Lumnije Krasniqi, Prishtina
Another example of Bush's idea of democracy. "Accept our proposal, or we'll have to ram it down you throat"! This Bush oligarchy has destroyed what the USA used to stand for. It is time for Americans to take back their country.
The inability to understand the current situation in Kosova/o its evident on this forum, though at times it's pointless to state the obvious.
Serbia lost Kosova/o in 1999 conflict (FACT), therefore most of the Serbian people already know and have conformed to the reality (there are some with high tendency to daydream otherwise)
There is no Serbian army or police in Kosova/o (FACT), there is no Serbian government in Kosova/o (FACT), in fact there is nothing of Serbian state in Kosova/o and all of you know it.
So far, those who are opposing (Russia, Serbia and..... sorry thats all) Kosova's independence have not come forth with constructive/comprehensive alternative sustainable solution to the independence because there is no alternatives to the independence.
Instead the very rouge nations who have no respect for the international law seek to be protected by the very laws they have brutally violated and continue to do so to date. Hence, the idea that Russia and Serbia are democratic (governments) is laughable.
Nevertheless here is what President Bush said and i quote: “At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, KOSOVA IS INDEPENDENT”.
Kate you’re definitely right when you said "Not everything can be bought" that’s what Serbs of Montenegro said before the referendum...what happened? Maybe your phrase does not apply to Serbs.
I hope these last statements from the President of the United States bring the Serbs to their senses.
Kosovo will be a state whether Russia, Serbia or whoever else likes it or not.
I am overjoyed and any further analysis seems pointless.
Jovan,
Why exactly would Albanians protest at having 500 US soldiers provide the necesary security for Bush? The US soldiers are our soldiers, we have trusted them with our lives in Kosovo and Albania and there is no reason whatsoever that they shouldnt be allowed to protect their President.
We fully support the USA and we would immediatly apply for membership in the US if it was offered to us.
THe most powerfull country on Earth is on our side and you cant do a thing abou it. In the words of the famous Star Trek, RESISTANCE IN FUTILE.
I agree, enough is enough! Americans have had enough of this administration and the world has had enough of the US dictating its will upon weaker nations, upsetting the international order, invading or bombing sovereign nations (without congress declaring war) enough is enough, the world and Serbia's sovereign territory is not yours to do with as you wish! "Bush expressed frustration about the lack of international consensus on granting Kosovo independence from Serbia". Mr. Bush, America, get ready to be "frustrated" more and more because your ability to project your will (violating international law, aggression against nations that made no aggressive actions towards you) is nearing and end. It is time for the US to act like a responsible member of the international community.
Ok, Ahmet,Hekuran,Genc, M.Miller, Valon, John2, and aa,
in which case lets see what Bush achieves this week seeing as now he says time is up even though he said that for May and sent Condi to Russia supposedly to convey the message!!!
I am willing to put some money on a new understanding from Bush very soon. The EU will be ensuring Bush thinks through his words and comes up with a better idea since they have signed up to a UN solution only - and we all know what happened the last time Mr Bush ignored the UN - this time he won't even have his pal "yo Blair" to back him up seeing as he is so discredited and has resigned with 27th June as the final day!!! If Bush was to act so recklessly then expect the fall of the US far faster then many have predicted!!
To Princip, Kate and others whom share the same view with them in here,
I hope you got the crystal clear messege from President Bush. "The time is now.....and we need to get moving...the result INDEPENDENCE and ....enough is enough". I have pointed it out several times for our B92 audiance that is the best solution for the region and Serbia itself. In English there is a saying "It is not the knocks that you take in life but the way how you take them". I hope that you will get the meaning of it at the end...it might take some time but we still can live together as good neighbours. Regards EA
Princip UK, stop insulting ALBANIANS calling their Kosovo "serbian region of Kosovo and Metohija". And above all, STOP insulting them, puting the prefix "serbian citizen" before that "albanian heritage". 90% of population in Kosovo is not of "albanian heritage". They ARE ALBANIANS. Is there need for reconciliation between both nations, serbs and albanians? Yes for sure. But first, serbs must be liberated by the influence of a heavy goebelsian propaganda which claims Kosovo is a serbian soil. It has never been. Serbs occupied Kosovo in 1913. This is the alfa and the omega. See this side of the mirror, and you will understand is not a matter of national proudness. Is a question of giving back what you stole to an unlucky people.
"We're winning the war on terror"
"Fool me once, shame on you..."
"WE never promised the Kurds anything?!"
"I DIDN'T have sexual relations with Monica Lewinski"...
Famous quotes by powerful Americans..
All hot air and bluster..
Whatever the outcome is, i agree with Princip..
People need to start talking..
Stop building walls of separation, admit to mistakes, look for forgiveness and find a common ground..
Throughout this whole process, both US and Russia hasn't allowed this to happen..They've fostered animosity for their OWN goals..
I've been on this board long enough to realize that the whole time people have been tit-tatting at one another in the name of their small peoples. In the meanwhile the US has still kept their army bases in Eastern Europe, and the Russians are simply yelling back...
I wish that both Serbs and Albanians have had eight years to simmer down, take a breath, and at least talk..My bigger wish, is that the bigger powers would allow this to happen...
But they don't..
Wake up. Don't hang on Bush's and Putin's words!!!!!!
They're simply hoping to add salt and pepper to a hot stew..
Bush and Putin yelling from treetops, at the expense of good hearted peoples should be a sign that nobody really cares for anything in the name of Albania or Serbia....
Listen Serbian guys/girls! I also think that dismembering a UN member state is a dangerous precedent, and I think that the US needs to rush to Bilbao and tell the Basques to continue the ETA attacks until the US-backed independence from Spain. But it is terribly NAIVE to rely on Russia! These guys are just as bad! if not worse. The pan-slavic propaganda is working unfortunately, but I've been to Russia and they call Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats etc. "blacks" (because they think of them as inferior for not having enough blond people - racist idiots). Russia wants to use the Slavic Balkan nations to de-stabilize the region - they love conflict, just like in Transnistria or the Caucasus.
Wake up Serbs! Everybody will sell you out: the EU, the US, and Russians. You might have better friends in your own neighbourhood (Bulgaria, Romania) if you stopped thinking they too are inferior to you and don't deserve a nod.
I would like to see what he will have for plan B hen this falls through after a Russian VETO. NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY WILL RECOGNISE Kosovos independence other then the US and maybe Britain. The troops in Kosovo will become an occupying force and once they leave welcome back to Serbia.
Those Americans have come half way arround the world to divide the people in the Balkans while they are doing everything to integrate and absorb Canada as the next state of the Union. Bush needs to keep his stars and stripes wagon and his war-mongering imperialistic policies in Washington and out of Europe You don’t need to add his stupidity since in Albania and Serbia you have enough of your own. If you can’t see Bush's nostalgia for the good old days of the arms race in Europe by these comments you have no idea how American economy works. As I said before today’s pig is tommorrow’e baccon with eggs on the American plate.
Poor George is blundering into yet another foreign policy debacle. If the resolution is vetoed, K-Albanians declare independence and the US recognizes it, then what? For the US, this is no problem - they have achieved their goal of signaling that the US can be good to Muslims. But for Europe it would be a huge crisis. The whole EU order is based on the principle of legality. If the word of countries like France and Germany is no good, then what is the purpose of signing treaties with them? I have a hard time seeing that any EU state would recognize Kosovo's independence without a UN mandate. This will create a huge rift in Europe, and severely damage the transatlantic relationship. Kosovo will be seen by Europeans as yet another example of US reckless unilateralism. If cooler heads prevail in Washington, they will not risk this relationship over Kosovo. But then poor George have boosted expectations, which will create huge disappointments among Albanians.
Just ignore provocations. Serbia should just follow the rule of law. The Western financial elites cannnot 'proclaim' or 'negotiate' Serbia's territory away against Serbia's wishes. The fact the Western leaders'are only being cheered in Albania and Kosovo speaks volumes. Their own populations have rejected them in clear terms. The Western imperialism is crashing. In front of our eyes. Only a negotiated settlement between Kosovo Albanians and Serbia will work in the long run. Nothing else will do.
For once Bush is right. Whether 12% or 15%, Serbia should recognize that the important number is 95%, which is the proportion of Kosovars that want a divorce from Serbia. EU membership offers a way for both republics of Kosovo and Serbia to co-exist as good neighbours with EU guaranteed freedoms and rights. Who can blame Kosovars for not trusting Serb promises, when its politcians are lying to Serbs, and maintaining a most corrupt and unpopular regime? Russia is no real friends of anybody in Europe; onlt last week Putin was threatening to point weapons of mass destruction at Europe!
Kosovo will be independendt one way or another. The sooner, the better for everyone(especially for Serbia. Serbs need to realize that their way out is toward the West and not East. Russian doesn't have food to feed it's people let along support Serbia...The probelm is the Serbian leadership. They seem to be afreaid the admit that the Kosovo is lost. The sooner they accept this fact and can deliver the message to their own people, the faster they can move forward. The more support they get from Russia, the more they isolate them selfs from EU/US...peace...move on...
Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it.
If Mr Bush wants the Kosovo to be an independent state, then with the same logic could also the American state, Texas become a independent state. will agree he in a such possibility. Rather no. Then why Mr Bush does fight in order to break Serbia?
Kostunica and posters here keep saying that Kosovo is 15% of SErbia's territory. It's just over 12%. This shows how much you and your premier know about kosovo. Kosovo's population density is double that of Serbia, which means that it would make 25% of its population if it were a part of it. In 50 years, albanians would make 60% of population and would overlflow Kosovo. Wake up and forget about Russia, double standards, substantial autonomy....
[ the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia..] comment by ahmes isufi!
oh ahmet isufi, my dear...the mere fact that it is exclusively the US-Marines securing Bush´s visit to that country shows how much trust the Americans have in albanian security measures, AND what is very interesting, how unimportant albanian sovereignty seems to be, since the Albanians do not seem to have protested against it.
calling Serbia a rogue-state shows your limited ability to see the "bigger picture".
you would probably applaude even if G.I.´s did all those things you are accusing the Serbs of.
“But, I can talk to the Serbs about economic development, and can talk about a better relationship with the United States" he said"
What can the world's biggest debtor possibly offer Serbia economically? And "a better relationship" only means that Serbia must become another lackey of the US. Don't fall for it!
The reality is that US is desperate to retain Albanian friendship because it is hated by the other Muslims all over the world.
If Russia vetoes and they still go ahead by recognising unilateral independence, it will change the entire order of international security. The implications are massive.
And what happens to the troops on the ground? This is not feasible and the ramifications are too great.
Bush is still talking about offering an incentive to Serbia (EU membership and better US relations etc.) which means he realises that this has to be done legally.
Which country would give up 15% of its territory to join a club??? Wipe out its history for a few dollars?! Not everything can be bought.
ok folks -- for once i agree with "my" president -- the time is up! wake up world, wake up europe, wake up serbia. independence for kosovo/a, and the last, final nail in yugoslavia's coffin. and then we can move forward with all of the other pressing issues...
Fine Mr Bush I completly agree the time is up on the folly of attempts at dismembering a UN member state. In which case why when the US was the presidency of the UN SC did they not vote on the proposal that will 'inevitably' be vetoed???
This is what the US said they would do in May but what then was the reason to continue giving a false hope - this is unfair to the Serbian citzens and inparticular to those Serbian citizens in Kosovo & Metohija - so be honest with them and end the false hope wwhich is now inevitable!
Kosovo & Metohija is an integral part of the UN recognised state of Serbia as reconfirmed by the UN resolution that the US itself formulated and signed and if Mr Bush is genuine then the satus will be resolved with the continuation of Serbian sovereignity!
I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires. Are we not all Europeans? The EU ethos is not about creating thousands of multi-ethnic entities with new borders and illuminating what seperates but quite the opposite about unity!!!
No matter how much you hate the other people, we are all just passing through on this planet. We would all do a lot better and live happier lives if we could put away our hate and try to understand the other side. We all want the same thing-- to live freely, without fear and conflict. Each of us should start respecting the other side as human beings. Peace starts with each one of us. The reality is that we must learn to live amongst each other in a new found tust and reconciliation - Serbia's integrity being upheld is not negative but can be positive for all it's citzens - no matter what their ethnic heritage is. Lets work together for the win-win that all the peoples of Serbia deserve.
the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia, it tells you pretty much everything you wnat to know about US resolve to move along with Kosova's Independence.Does any serb has any idea why Bush is not visiting serbia? ... becasue they have nothing in common.
Fine Mr Bush I completly agree the time is up on the folly of attempts at dismembering a UN member state. In which case why when the US was the presidency of the UN SC did they not vote on the proposal that will 'inevitably' be vetoed???
This is what the US said they would do in May but what then was the reason to continue giving a false hope - this is unfair to the Serbian citzens and inparticular to those Serbian citizens in Kosovo & Metohija - so be honest with them and end the false hope wwhich is now inevitable!
Kosovo & Metohija is an integral part of the UN recognised state of Serbia as reconfirmed by the UN resolution that the US itself formulated and signed and if Mr Bush is genuine then the satus will be resolved with the continuation of Serbian sovereignity!
I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires. Are we not all Europeans? The EU ethos is not about creating thousands of multi-ethnic entities with new borders and illuminating what seperates but quite the opposite about unity!!!
No matter how much you hate the other people, we are all just passing through on this planet. We would all do a lot better and live happier lives if we could put away our hate and try to understand the other side. We all want the same thing-- to live freely, without fear and conflict. Each of us should start respecting the other side as human beings. Peace starts with each one of us. The reality is that we must learn to live amongst each other in a new found tust and reconciliation - Serbia's integrity being upheld is not negative but can be positive for all it's citzens - no matter what their ethnic heritage is. Lets work together for the win-win that all the peoples of Serbia deserve.
the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia, it tells you pretty much everything you wnat to know about US resolve to move along with Kosova's Independence.Does any serb has any idea why Bush is not visiting serbia? ... becasue they have nothing in common.
ok folks -- for once i agree with "my" president -- the time is up! wake up world, wake up europe, wake up serbia. independence for kosovo/a, and the last, final nail in yugoslavia's coffin. and then we can move forward with all of the other pressing issues...
If Russia vetoes and they still go ahead by recognising unilateral independence, it will change the entire order of international security. The implications are massive.
And what happens to the troops on the ground? This is not feasible and the ramifications are too great.
Bush is still talking about offering an incentive to Serbia (EU membership and better US relations etc.) which means he realises that this has to be done legally.
Which country would give up 15% of its territory to join a club??? Wipe out its history for a few dollars?! Not everything can be bought.
“But, I can talk to the Serbs about economic development, and can talk about a better relationship with the United States" he said"
What can the world's biggest debtor possibly offer Serbia economically? And "a better relationship" only means that Serbia must become another lackey of the US. Don't fall for it!
The reality is that US is desperate to retain Albanian friendship because it is hated by the other Muslims all over the world.
[ the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia..] comment by ahmes isufi!
oh ahmet isufi, my dear...the mere fact that it is exclusively the US-Marines securing Bush´s visit to that country shows how much trust the Americans have in albanian security measures, AND what is very interesting, how unimportant albanian sovereignty seems to be, since the Albanians do not seem to have protested against it.
calling Serbia a rogue-state shows your limited ability to see the "bigger picture".
you would probably applaude even if G.I.´s did all those things you are accusing the Serbs of.
Kostunica and posters here keep saying that Kosovo is 15% of SErbia's territory. It's just over 12%. This shows how much you and your premier know about kosovo. Kosovo's population density is double that of Serbia, which means that it would make 25% of its population if it were a part of it. In 50 years, albanians would make 60% of population and would overlflow Kosovo. Wake up and forget about Russia, double standards, substantial autonomy....
Kosovo will be independendt one way or another. The sooner, the better for everyone(especially for Serbia. Serbs need to realize that their way out is toward the West and not East. Russian doesn't have food to feed it's people let along support Serbia...The probelm is the Serbian leadership. They seem to be afreaid the admit that the Kosovo is lost. The sooner they accept this fact and can deliver the message to their own people, the faster they can move forward. The more support they get from Russia, the more they isolate them selfs from EU/US...peace...move on...
Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it.
If Mr Bush wants the Kosovo to be an independent state, then with the same logic could also the American state, Texas become a independent state. will agree he in a such possibility. Rather no. Then why Mr Bush does fight in order to break Serbia?
Princip UK, stop insulting ALBANIANS calling their Kosovo "serbian region of Kosovo and Metohija". And above all, STOP insulting them, puting the prefix "serbian citizen" before that "albanian heritage". 90% of population in Kosovo is not of "albanian heritage". They ARE ALBANIANS. Is there need for reconciliation between both nations, serbs and albanians? Yes for sure. But first, serbs must be liberated by the influence of a heavy goebelsian propaganda which claims Kosovo is a serbian soil. It has never been. Serbs occupied Kosovo in 1913. This is the alfa and the omega. See this side of the mirror, and you will understand is not a matter of national proudness. Is a question of giving back what you stole to an unlucky people.
Just ignore provocations. Serbia should just follow the rule of law. The Western financial elites cannnot 'proclaim' or 'negotiate' Serbia's territory away against Serbia's wishes. The fact the Western leaders'are only being cheered in Albania and Kosovo speaks volumes. Their own populations have rejected them in clear terms. The Western imperialism is crashing. In front of our eyes. Only a negotiated settlement between Kosovo Albanians and Serbia will work in the long run. Nothing else will do.
I would like to see what he will have for plan B hen this falls through after a Russian VETO. NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY WILL RECOGNISE Kosovos independence other then the US and maybe Britain. The troops in Kosovo will become an occupying force and once they leave welcome back to Serbia.
"We're winning the war on terror"
"Fool me once, shame on you..."
"WE never promised the Kurds anything?!"
"I DIDN'T have sexual relations with Monica Lewinski"...
Famous quotes by powerful Americans..
All hot air and bluster..
Whatever the outcome is, i agree with Princip..
People need to start talking..
Stop building walls of separation, admit to mistakes, look for forgiveness and find a common ground..
Throughout this whole process, both US and Russia hasn't allowed this to happen..They've fostered animosity for their OWN goals..
I've been on this board long enough to realize that the whole time people have been tit-tatting at one another in the name of their small peoples. In the meanwhile the US has still kept their army bases in Eastern Europe, and the Russians are simply yelling back...
I wish that both Serbs and Albanians have had eight years to simmer down, take a breath, and at least talk..My bigger wish, is that the bigger powers would allow this to happen...
But they don't..
Wake up. Don't hang on Bush's and Putin's words!!!!!!
They're simply hoping to add salt and pepper to a hot stew..
Bush and Putin yelling from treetops, at the expense of good hearted peoples should be a sign that nobody really cares for anything in the name of Albania or Serbia....
For once Bush is right. Whether 12% or 15%, Serbia should recognize that the important number is 95%, which is the proportion of Kosovars that want a divorce from Serbia. EU membership offers a way for both republics of Kosovo and Serbia to co-exist as good neighbours with EU guaranteed freedoms and rights. Who can blame Kosovars for not trusting Serb promises, when its politcians are lying to Serbs, and maintaining a most corrupt and unpopular regime? Russia is no real friends of anybody in Europe; onlt last week Putin was threatening to point weapons of mass destruction at Europe!
Those Americans have come half way arround the world to divide the people in the Balkans while they are doing everything to integrate and absorb Canada as the next state of the Union. Bush needs to keep his stars and stripes wagon and his war-mongering imperialistic policies in Washington and out of Europe You don’t need to add his stupidity since in Albania and Serbia you have enough of your own. If you can’t see Bush's nostalgia for the good old days of the arms race in Europe by these comments you have no idea how American economy works. As I said before today’s pig is tommorrow’e baccon with eggs on the American plate.
Poor George is blundering into yet another foreign policy debacle. If the resolution is vetoed, K-Albanians declare independence and the US recognizes it, then what? For the US, this is no problem - they have achieved their goal of signaling that the US can be good to Muslims. But for Europe it would be a huge crisis. The whole EU order is based on the principle of legality. If the word of countries like France and Germany is no good, then what is the purpose of signing treaties with them? I have a hard time seeing that any EU state would recognize Kosovo's independence without a UN mandate. This will create a huge rift in Europe, and severely damage the transatlantic relationship. Kosovo will be seen by Europeans as yet another example of US reckless unilateralism. If cooler heads prevail in Washington, they will not risk this relationship over Kosovo. But then poor George have boosted expectations, which will create huge disappointments among Albanians.
Listen Serbian guys/girls! I also think that dismembering a UN member state is a dangerous precedent, and I think that the US needs to rush to Bilbao and tell the Basques to continue the ETA attacks until the US-backed independence from Spain. But it is terribly NAIVE to rely on Russia! These guys are just as bad! if not worse. The pan-slavic propaganda is working unfortunately, but I've been to Russia and they call Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats etc. "blacks" (because they think of them as inferior for not having enough blond people - racist idiots). Russia wants to use the Slavic Balkan nations to de-stabilize the region - they love conflict, just like in Transnistria or the Caucasus.
Wake up Serbs! Everybody will sell you out: the EU, the US, and Russians. You might have better friends in your own neighbourhood (Bulgaria, Romania) if you stopped thinking they too are inferior to you and don't deserve a nod.
Ok, Ahmet,Hekuran,Genc, M.Miller, Valon, John2, and aa,
in which case lets see what Bush achieves this week seeing as now he says time is up even though he said that for May and sent Condi to Russia supposedly to convey the message!!!
I am willing to put some money on a new understanding from Bush very soon. The EU will be ensuring Bush thinks through his words and comes up with a better idea since they have signed up to a UN solution only - and we all know what happened the last time Mr Bush ignored the UN - this time he won't even have his pal "yo Blair" to back him up seeing as he is so discredited and has resigned with 27th June as the final day!!! If Bush was to act so recklessly then expect the fall of the US far faster then many have predicted!!
I hope these last statements from the President of the United States bring the Serbs to their senses.
Kosovo will be a state whether Russia, Serbia or whoever else likes it or not.
I am overjoyed and any further analysis seems pointless.
Jovan,
Why exactly would Albanians protest at having 500 US soldiers provide the necesary security for Bush? The US soldiers are our soldiers, we have trusted them with our lives in Kosovo and Albania and there is no reason whatsoever that they shouldnt be allowed to protect their President.
We fully support the USA and we would immediatly apply for membership in the US if it was offered to us.
THe most powerfull country on Earth is on our side and you cant do a thing abou it. In the words of the famous Star Trek, RESISTANCE IN FUTILE.
To Princip, Kate and others whom share the same view with them in here,
I hope you got the crystal clear messege from President Bush. "The time is now.....and we need to get moving...the result INDEPENDENCE and ....enough is enough". I have pointed it out several times for our B92 audiance that is the best solution for the region and Serbia itself. In English there is a saying "It is not the knocks that you take in life but the way how you take them". I hope that you will get the meaning of it at the end...it might take some time but we still can live together as good neighbours. Regards EA
I agree, enough is enough! Americans have had enough of this administration and the world has had enough of the US dictating its will upon weaker nations, upsetting the international order, invading or bombing sovereign nations (without congress declaring war) enough is enough, the world and Serbia's sovereign territory is not yours to do with as you wish! "Bush expressed frustration about the lack of international consensus on granting Kosovo independence from Serbia". Mr. Bush, America, get ready to be "frustrated" more and more because your ability to project your will (violating international law, aggression against nations that made no aggressive actions towards you) is nearing and end. It is time for the US to act like a responsible member of the international community.
Another example of Bush's idea of democracy. "Accept our proposal, or we'll have to ram it down you throat"! This Bush oligarchy has destroyed what the USA used to stand for. It is time for Americans to take back their country.
Bush can say whatever he wants, but his credibility in the world is close to zero. This is hardly making any news in the United States. Any stories relating to US-Russian relations being strained only seems to focus on the issue of missle defense systems in Europe. Kosovo is not even mentioned. Even the big newspapers like the New York Times or the Washington Post have stopped reporting any activities on Kosovo. Both papers have extensively written editorials in the past over how the province should be given independence. Now both are interestingly silent, with the occasional "pay attention to me" articles by Richard Holbrooke. Articles of Bush visiting Albania focused more or the wierdness of a country that adores him, rather than organizng protest rallies against him. The whole episode has become convoluted and selective in our press.
Still, Bush can say whatever he wants, but the question that no one is able to firmly answer is WHEN Kosovo will get its independence, HOW it will look after independence, and under what contexts will indepdendence come. It seems to me that if the Albanians' wish is to come true, considerable concessions will have to be given to both Serbia and Russia; more than what is being offered now, and I think many Albanians will be quite upset to see the type of state that results from their "independence by any means" campaign. So right now, Bush saying "Kosovo should be independent" has about as much depth as "Iraq should be democratic": in theory it would solve a lot of problems, but it's a long long way from manifesting.
You'll have to forgive Bush...his words don't necessarily reflect those of a bright individual.
I'm going to put this out on the table as thus: 1. Bush has no full idea what he's talking about, 2. He doesn't understand the ramifications of what may come about by his straight talk, 3. Nor could he locate where Serbia and/or Albania are on a map.
But anyway, if this decision does come about, it'll be up to the people of Southeastern Europe to follow the lead of what Princip in the UK said in paragraphs 4 and 5.
Independence for Kosovo is not an end in itself. We honestly have to learn to live together...forever. And we simply HAVE to do this. I mean, we're talking about an area that's so close together, that no amount of hatred can exist if any progress/friendliness/cooperation is to EVER emerge.
This isn't the Middle East, this is Europe. And we need to forgive more, hate less, and help one another get out of the hell we've been through in the past.
Kate you’re definitely right when you said "Not everything can be bought" that’s what Serbs of Montenegro said before the referendum...what happened? Maybe your phrase does not apply to Serbs.
The inability to understand the current situation in Kosova/o its evident on this forum, though at times it's pointless to state the obvious.
Serbia lost Kosova/o in 1999 conflict (FACT), therefore most of the Serbian people already know and have conformed to the reality (there are some with high tendency to daydream otherwise)
There is no Serbian army or police in Kosova/o (FACT), there is no Serbian government in Kosova/o (FACT), in fact there is nothing of Serbian state in Kosova/o and all of you know it.
So far, those who are opposing (Russia, Serbia and..... sorry thats all) Kosova's independence have not come forth with constructive/comprehensive alternative sustainable solution to the independence because there is no alternatives to the independence.
Instead the very rouge nations who have no respect for the international law seek to be protected by the very laws they have brutally violated and continue to do so to date. Hence, the idea that Russia and Serbia are democratic (governments) is laughable.
Nevertheless here is what President Bush said and i quote: “At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, KOSOVA IS INDEPENDENT”.
Thank you USA, thank you Mr.Bush, thank you West... Finally ex Yugoslavia is dead and Kosova Free... Sorry Serbia, you are going East and we are very close to West --> Serbs have chosen wrong way..Good luck to you as well... Regards from Prishtina
Albanian people received again guarantee for its independence from the USA President Bush.
Thank you dear Mr. President.
It is historical day!
God blessed Amerika!
Lumnije Krasniqi, Prishtina
To the Serbs that kept doubting if US will unilaterally recognize Kosova's independence, read what Bush said: "At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, Kosovo is independent" How can he be more clear than that!
So US will recognize Kosova and so will most EU countries, UK, Germany, France etc and the relevant Balkan countries, Albania, Macedonia, Croatia Slovenia and Bosnia. That is all we need. Russia will be proven again that is of no importance in this matter.
Sadly President Bush, my commander in chief and the man I voted for in 2004, continues along the same failed lines that America committed in the Balkans in the 1990s.
American policy in the Balkans has failed and the government is afraid of admitting such a failure. President Bush, who I still support, was very critical of American intervention during the national debates with then Vice President Al Gore.
The realities on the ground are not irreversible but the west lacks the political will to do the right thing.
Mr. Princip...I do agree with some of your thoughts such as “We all want the same thing-- to live freely” but did you ever asked yourself did Albanian people of former Yugoslavia ever “live freely”? No, Mr. Princip they never had any rights in any state of the former Yugoslavia. And do not forget Albanian people did not emigrate from Albania to Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece; that was, it is and it will be their land.
I liked this commend as well “I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires.” Yes, we all must learn “to put the past behind” but Albanian people can not do that because they are the one who were occupied and suffered for centuries, and if they remain part of Serbia (which it will not happen) how do they know the genocide against them will not happen again in the future. Mr. Princip, how about we give to the people of the Balkans what they want (independence) and then we all work together as neighbors
One think you should have add to your comment Mr. Princip is that Serbian citizens of Serbian heritage in Serbia and other neighboring countries should wake up and stop dreaming of “big Serbia”. Obviously it is not happening. Decades have past and nothing positive happened in Serbia or to Serbian people. Every move they made it was the wrong one and they lost every battle they had. Forget Russia they have tons of their own problems and they are not really a good sample to be looked at. Russia, with the promises of “big Serbia, is the one that brought Serbia and Serbian people to their original state THE “BEOGRADSKI PASHALUK”.
A sufficiently clear message from USA. As I said previously the more Serbia objects the more it pushes itself in the corner. Guess what's coming next? Vojvodina, Sandzak, Presevo Valley...there seem a consensus is building among Balkan nations that steps are needed to bring Serbia to its natural borders too..unless such post-Milosevic-Milosevic-inspired politics that is still practiced in Serbia stops once and forever.
Read the BBC journal article about Bush coming to Albania.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6738275.stm
It is actually quite funny. Albanian army had to surrender their weapons! They stood there with their hands behind there backs. They renamed a street after Bush. And they are European? Europe is about protesting America!
my dear boys... I am surprised by this uproar among you! do you REALLY believe what Bush is saying to you? you buy everything, it seems!
now that they know there is no cheap bargain with the Russians possible and therefore no resolution passing the UNSC, that´s the only thing the US can do right now! calming down the albanian street.
but, after all, that´s nothing of importance, since the any status decision can only be made WITHIN the UNSC. do you get it?
it doesn´t really look very good, how you are degrading yourself by hailing mr.Bush.
Why is Bush not visiting Kosovo? It has nothing to do with security. He visited Iraq and came home alive. Anyway him not visiting Kosovo shows you how much he cares about you people.
Bush can say what he wants, history taught us that today's enemy is our tomorrow's friend.
USA have elections very soon, the hot potato for the USA is how to get out of Irag without it's image damaged. As for Kosovo, the solution will go along with the progress os Serbia towards the E.U.
"Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it"
@Vuk
hold your horses..
probably you and your srbs pals Wish you would trade Kosova for EU membership. you still have to deal with war criminals and other EU membership requirements.
Observers widely regard Bush as a lame duck president in these last two years before the elections. In need of a cheap and easy PR success, he thought that preaching to the crowd (i.e. declaring his support for the 'independence' of Kosovo) would do it. Well, there's really nothing else he could say about Albanian with regards to human rights, poverty, crime etc. etc.
Why is he in Albanian? Since the end of the Cold War, Albanian has been regarded as strategic importance to the US, hence being the most regularly visited state by top us defense and military officials. It has only become more important since the agreement to build the Burgas-Volre pipeling, the US seeing its deepwater ports as its main assets.
So, this visit is not about the U.S. president's love for the albanian people, it's about the U.S. strategic interests and it always has been. The president's announcment is just the equivalent of the icing on the cake, i.e. to keep the people sweet. Like other major 'power' countries, the U.S. has 'friendly countries', but most are 'interests' rather than 'friends'. What the U.S. actually has 'in commmon' is very very few, and very very far apart.
I keep hearing from Serbs here how the US, the UK, France etc. should be dismembered. That is a complete state of denial. Wake up and realize that it is those countries that have the power to do whatever they want with Kosovo and not vice versa, meaning Serbia or even Russia have no power whatsoever to dismember those countries.
If the US federal institutions violated every basic human right and committed genocide against Texas citizens, Texas governor would declare independence. Arnold would do the same thing if this was done to California citizens.
So spare us of the comparisons. Bangladesh was no precedent. Pakistan was no precedent. East Timor was no precedent. Kosova will be no precedent.
The only precedent that the independent Kosova will be known for is that if you commit genocide against an ethnic group, you will lose the right to govern that ethnic group and the territory that they reside in.
President Bush, Thank You.
I really regret not voting for you in 2000 and 2004.
we have all to be very gratefull to président Bush:at least a very clear message,without double understanding,without possibility of misinterpreting!
So now every body is fully aware of what the future of kosovo will beand each of us has to chose what he wants to do .
President Bush puts an end to the game of the serbian politician with the fate of kosovo serbs,président Bush puts aside the albanian frustration,and président Bush says that america will help both our countries in the future...
so my serbian guys,be brave for once,and accept that you were wrong in killing so many people,in destroying so many houses,in choising always the wrong side during these 20 years!
at the end ,be courageous:try to chose for an occidental future and not a russian one!
once again,thank you,mr president for being cristal clear!
Christos: Kosovo can be declared an independent state since a war was fought (and won by NATO) and an external entity (the UN, through UNMIK) essentially became the government, provided security, etc.
The Serbian government hasn't been in power in Kosovo since 1999 as a result of UN Security Council Res. 1244. This means that Kosovo is already a independent state in practice, it just needs the official declaration.
it is time for serbian government to ask the american ambassador to leave serbia. it should be explained to him and the us administration that this kind of anti-serbian stand is not acceptable. serbia should freeze any further military / nato talks until the us apologize and the kosovo matter is resolved to serbia's satisfaction .
One thing is clear: an American president doesn't just publicly commit to a policy if his administration is unsure about it.
There is a firm line on this: the US policy is to ensure the advent of a new Kosovar state.
Thus, it is only a matter of time when this happens. There's no doubt about IT happening.
There are two ways: one is thru a controlled UN process, in which case Russia can decide for its own where its interests lie; OR thru a unilateral pathway.
In either case, independence is where we'll end up at. The Russians know this: they know they can't stop it; they're either trying to push up the price for their eventual agreement, or they simply want to make themselves look relevant.
But, people tend to forget one fact: Kosovo is a western project - i cant seem to emphasize this enough! Thus, it will be settled on the West's terms.
If we end up on an uncontrolled unilateral pathway, the price will be paid mostly by the Serian minority in Kosovo, which will be stripped off its autonomy-level protections enshrined in the Ahtisari Plan. Doesn't seem to me they're a concern of anyone, including their brethren Slavs.
The Serbian pain over the 'loss' of Kosovo is long overdue: punishing them for the horrendous war crimes of 1990s, and teaching them a historical lesson on their destructive chauvenism.
Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent. At that time France tried to play the big boy by treatening to use her veto in the case of Irak. Nothing could stop superpower US. France was too little and impuissant to stand in its way. Now it will be the same. Russia has delusions of grandeur and feels that it can dictat the course of events. Well little Vlad will get the same lesson as little Jacques got 4 years ago.
There are negotiations to be done. The political campaign has worked so far.
Bush's display will not actually win respect. European politicians know that there are many issues in which he plays no part and of which he has no understanding.
Democratic Serbia has shown much willingness to be adaptable on issues but must be respected in defending its land.
Further negotiations are essential for the future of the region.
Serbia is increasingly being proactive in negotiating a wide range of topics and it will take on an increasingly important regional role. That cannot be the case for Kosovo.
Princip, those are fine words, pity you only use them when you and serbia are backed into a corner and want to pretend that everyone should get along, however as soon as something is said in media to put kosovo in corner, do you use the same words? No, you in fact continue the attack and makes you quiet two faced really. unfortuntately people in this forum dont forget.
Bush: Kosovo will get independence!!
Thank You, President for the support for kosova albanian people will always love your country thats why we send troops to iraq and afganistan.kosova is gonna be independent no matter what.thank you for coming to albania, albanian people will always love you and american people
After signing over 4 billion in business deals in St. Petersburg Putin spoke out against American unilateralism. He also spoke out against the financial monopoly of the G8 saying “50 years ago, 60 per cent of world gross domestic product came from the Group of Seven industrial nations. Today, 60 per cent of world GDP came from outside the G7.” He wants changes so that interest of smaller nations are considered. He said that “Institutions created with a focus on a small number of active players sometimes look archaic, undemocratic and unwieldy. They are a far cry from recognising the existing balance of power,”
Putin also spoke about the Kosovo issue saying that “undermining Serbia’s sovereignty does not correspond to moral or legal norms’’, and “I got an impression that finally our arguments are being treated seriously by our G8 colleagues.’’
George Bush obviously did not get the message but that is understandable because it flies in the face of the American Agenda for the Twenty First Century” and its unilateral world vision.
i don't see here actually a real opinion of why and what Bush said. As we know there was no agreement on the G8 about Kosovo. And now suddenly he openly propagate an independent Kosovo? It is all fake people! Bush must say this because he wants his protection shields in The Czech Republic and in Poland. Not in Azerbeidjan because that's not in the influence sphere of the US. So, probably in 1-2 weeks you will see that Putin slowly will accpet it (or maybe it will go to Azerbeidjan) and in exchange the decision on Kosovo will be delayed, delayed and finally no one wants to talk about it then the Albanians only!
Goodmorning all,
I think now it is time for Serbian leadership that they no longer can keep Kosova. Kosova has its own leaders, its own institutions, its identity and language and practically it is independent since 1999. No one in Balkans wants to live with Serbs in one "federation". Especially Albanians of Kosova who had suffered so much under the Serbian oppression. They have shown their will, in different ways, ever since they were occupied by Serbia early 20th Century. Waiting to join Europe, that the past problems to disappear, it is just a fantasy, for both, serbs and albanians. Kosova is independent day by day. The sooner Serbians understands this the better for them. After all, the bloody 'Greater Serbian' nightmare is over. Do you get it? Kosova will soon recognised as an independent state and wise serbs know it.Its Over.
Bush is talking unilateral recoginition because he knows the proposed resolution in its present form will not pass the UNSC.
The net result on the ground will be de facto partition -- the north declaring itself part of Serbia thru 1244.
Hot words from both sides will follow, but will not be allowed to translate into war because Nato is already overstretched in Afghanistan, Iran and Sudan. Nato will quietly tell Pristina that unilateral recognition is on condition that K-Albanians start economy building and not violence. In decades to come, the de facto partition will become de jour.
Kate,
it is time to put an end to the post WW2 world order (ruling of UN Security Council) since WW3 has already been fought and won by NATO against Warsaw PAct.
It is time to respect the will of the people.
That said EU and NATO should link Kosovo's independence recognition to protection of Serb minority end its effective represantation in Kosovar political Institutions.
Jovan, 100 of secret service agents including marines were sent to Italy and all countries that were visited by Bush. So, Albanian was no exeption either.Som much for your coment.
i saw in the CNN the live telecast of the press conference. mr bush almost forgot what to say then he looked in his codigo. when he was asked about deadline he seemed shocked and couldnt give a date except the phrase > the time is now, the end goal is independence. these are diplomatic words. of course his ambassador in the UNSC is the lead actor in the YES vote. the BIG problem is russia. bush did not manage to comvince putin in the G8. without russia's yes means no independence even with cowboy bush overwhelming YES.
Princip,Jovan,Kate and others,
Specially you Lazar!
Don't be so nervous!
Don't panic!
If you are so sure that Kosova is not getting what it deserves (Independence),then why are you so nervous.
It i9s independent from 1999 and it will just be recognized it all!
As for seccurity of Bushs visit and the protocolar procedure,best picture was shown in that small vilage of Fushe Kruje when people brocked protocoles and expressed their devotion and love to US and President G.W.BUSH.
God Bless USA.
God Bless Albania!
God Bless albanians whenever they are!
bush stance was all diplomatic. everybody knows that US is in favor of independence. of all his european tours, protestors are there. only in albania was he welcomed like a hero. all the advanced european coutries knows that he is the worst president of the USA and here comes a country giving him the 21 cannon salute.
Joe,
your absolutely right on the fact that Mr Bush as the President of the US cannot do what he blurted out over the weekend. I commend you for realising that this is not achievable via LEGAL processes of the UN. like you say;
"Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent."
I wish there were more critcal analysis from ethnic-Albaninan commentators. You undertsanding is spot on if Bush is to be held to his word then it will not be through the UN. Seeing as Bush has said "time is up" lets see him put this through the UN this week!!! More importantly lets see him take responsibility for his words and actions in the evident repurcusions that he has been warned can occur and also surely from the huge lesson you would have thought he learnt following on from his ill-thought actions in 2003!!!
I am certain Bush will need to visit Albania very soon to explain why he gave false hope and could not deliver on his predecessors dubiuos promise! Don't be surprised if he tries to back track this week on what he did or did not say!
Joe and others,
Why do you think I have being stating that we need to divert away from the path that such irresponsible words of Bush will result in - all will lose in pursuing such folly - no one deserves the misery of what would follow. Surely it is better that the barriers are removed and all the peoples of Serbia learn to find a way that is a win-win - it is in everyones best interest! Bush and the lack of thought in what happens next is not something that the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija needs - ask an Iraqi if they are happier now then they were before 2003???? Is this what you desire for Kosovo & Metohija???
Daniel, I have asked you previously to please provide evidence of your insinuations against me - look through the archives and either provide evidence or stop insulting - I am sure you are aware of the rules of these comments! Stick to the subject and please don't bring in your hatred at someone you have never even personally met - it does little for your credibility and adds very little to the comments page!!!
Finally I will add is that Ahtisaari 'Lite' (Ahtisaari + Serbian continued sovereignity) really is the best option possible and with Mr Bush suggesting "time is up" he has made this a finite time frame which he either backs down on in the next week or otherwise all will have lost out from his reckless words and actions that may follow!!
First, President Bush does not make policy decisions on his own, foreign policy decisions as important as those relating to Kosovo are carefully considered by Washington before statements, such as those made by Bush in Albania are issued. I would have thought even the Serbian posters here would understand this simple fact.
Second, the support of the US is the one and most important thing Albanians in general and Kosovar Albanians in particular care about. It was Woodrow Wilson that prevented Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria from tearing Albania to pieces and it will be President Bush who will make Kosovo an independent state.
A very interesting article in the daily Koha Ditore today read "A Phyrric Victory for Serbia in St.Petersburg" Although you may have the support of Mr.Putin and Russia the current position the Government of Serbia has taken will cost Serbia a lot in relations with the West.
I hope Serbia will soon understand that its future lies in the European Union and NATO. The Ballkans wants Serbia to join the EU and end the centuries of Serbian nationalism that have caused so much suffering and hate.
Well, well… the US again reconfirming independence of Kosova...I have a sincere message for my neighbours Serbs, start thinking now about other parts of your country, Vojvodina, Sanxhak and Presheva Valley…as far as UNSC recognition, it doesn’t matter, we will act same as Slovenia did, unilateral declaration followed by recognition from most powerful and developed countries in the world, except poor countries Serbia and Russia. The US Rocks…God Bless the US...Cheers for United State of Albania
To Princip, UK.
You write in moderate way, but the esence is not different from what Milloshevic said on 1989. EU is for integrating all europian countries and nations economically, politically and socially, where all have to be EQUAL. Do you know how 'equal' was an albanian in Yougoslavia, and specially in Serbia, and how 'equal' was an serb in Kosova. That is the main problem, not any serb will accept to go back and be equal with an albanian. Have you ever been in Kosova before?
We can talk, of course, but after we are independent or be what we are: Albania. I would like to comment with you further, if you do have enough time and courage. Here is my email: ardiko82@walla.com
Does anyone even take Bush seriously anymore?? He is a walking disaster, even the Americans say so! Now thats saying something. His little trip to Albania is of no consequence
Hi Foks...here is another piece of news from Bush visi to Sofia...
Sofia. US President George Bush announced at a joint press conference with the Bulgarian Head of State Georgi Parvanov that he deeply respects the progress Bulgaria has made to build a free society, a journalist of FOCUS News Agency reported. As for the Kosovo status, Kosovo should be independent, the US Head of State confirmed.
I hope the Serbs will understand soon that Kosovo isn't anymore and was never an integral part of Serbia. It's over since the ending of Kosovo-War in 1999.
To all those who think that George Bush is the only one in the USA supporting a daydream independence of Kosovo. Take a look what will happen if today Bush resigns and democrats come over. Hillary Clinton's president. Bingo. The first act she will take is granting independence to Kosovo. She is an albanian lobbyst among the US Senat. So, sorry guys, but in the case of Kosovo, Bush is doing right, he has the full support of both sides of US politics, and he is walking in a very left wing and strong moral territory: AUTODETERMINATION of NATIONS.
Finally I have to add a thought to the very moving words of some serbian contributors in this forum about "reconciliation", "forgiveness" and "looking toward the bright future". I fully agree with that. It will come a day when albanians and serbs will sit together around a lovely table and will talk about this lovely notions. But first, justice must have been done. After they accept that all that big issue of "Kosovo cradle of serbs" is just a fiction built by Vuk Karadzic's books, and the only thing that matters is that 95% of the people in that occupied area never accepted their rule, THAN and only THAN we can start that process everybody is eager to see happening in the Balkans. We are so different. We can be good neighbors. But we shouldn't be allowed to rule each other. And don't talk me about: stop the great powers deciding our fate. It was a great power: Russia, which decided in 1913 that Albania should be mutilated (because it isn't slavic) and gave Kosovo to Serbia. Now, sorry, but the story is different. Who makes the rules is someone else, and Russia can only yell a little bit, but just that. But thanks God it is the age of internet, cable tv and satellites and everything what took place in the heart of Europe had witnesses. Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? So dear serbs, you lost your chance. And with that, you lost that territory of Albania which was given to you as a present by Russia. But which you treated like it was your "own" land forcing for years and years the inhabitants of that land to leave, or die.
Mikel, Tirana
it is not 100 marines..., read my comment ( or the news ) more properly! the entire security was provided by american services. there is a difference.
and to the writer who thinks I am nervous:
sorry for you, buddy, but you are wrong. the level of nervousity seems to be very high on the k-albanian side, if we take a look on how you behave because of just a few words spoken by the US-president... =)
Of course, there was a diplomatic connotation of President Bush's speech in Tirana, but message was very clear: AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT AND NOW IS THE TIME...
Considering that this is declared after consultations at UNSC, CG and G8 everybody should be convinced that this is not his personal statement and statement of USA only, but statement and decision of whole international decision making structures, institutions and community. This message might be not clear only for them who doesn't want to receive it... Matter is that you may not want to receive it, but you can not change it eather...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
It does not matter of what kind of a president he is, what it matters the most to us is whom he represents.
George W Bush visiting Albania represents the American people; therefore he was given a warm welcome.
Any American presidents will be given such welcomes as long as the Lands of the Eagles will exist on this planet.
I can tell you this with certainty, against the humbling odds, mainly due to hostile neighbors our Lands of the Eagles will exist for long time to come, and the Americans will be welcomed at all times.
“The United States has to find some other way to express its love and affection for the Albanians instead of giving them Serbian territory as a present,” Koštunica's words should be repeated by all albanians before they go to bed at night. Laku Noc everyone!
Don't you see you people that the world is divided on two blocks: with USA or another block with Russia (Serbia choosed this one). Of course we Albanians chooseed to be and support USA. We, Albanians are the people who always suffered by Russians alies will get independence.
This is awsome. This tells that USA supports Kosova's indipendence totally and there will be nothing that will stop that. USA ROCKS!!!
(Hekuran, Sunday, 10 June, 2007, 15:13)
okay, this is the first one I'll mention. What bush did was say he supports you. Don't ever confuse his wants with our (American people) wants.
You have the support of a president with a 30% approval rating from the American people. That means 3 out of every 10 of us agree with him and feel he's doing a good job. So I wouldn't get to excited.
To take away 15% of the territory from a country that in 1998 and 1999 tried to kill and expel 22% of its own population? I think it’s a good deal.
Human rights violations are above questions about country borders, and the apologist Serbs should know that. And besides all mediaval religious orthodox myth, Kosovo was part of Serbia for a mere 300 years (first around 200 years during Middle Ages and close to 100 years during Serbo-Yugoslav years). Even if we count the time from the time the slavs came to the Balkans to today, we see that most of the time Kosovo was not part of Serbia, even when Serbia was a mere province of Turkey.
To justify the possession of a territory based on a battle that occurred in 1389 is simply ridiculous.
George W. Bush may be wrong in Iraq, but he’s right on Kosovo.
I ACOMPLETELY AGREE with Mr Bush. Time has come to settle the Kosovo's rep0ort. For years now, Serbia is turning around and make nations are doing the same. Serbia cannot settles this; the USA, once again, will have to wear its big shoes and do the job. Serbia should have cooperated years ago with the UN, the USA and the EU, and Serbia failed... and we all know why: because of a stubborn Kostunica who is protecting pursued for war crimes, and pursuing at the same time the victimization of Serbia. It does not work like this. America knows, just as all the EU that the Serbs had a plan to cleanse Kosovo from all Albanians, just as Milosevic, Karadzic and the Serb general had a plan of committing a genocide against Bosnia. Here what I read this morning in Trbic's indictement: «The indictment alleges that Trbić entered an agreement with several others, including Generals Ratko Mladić, Milenko Živanović, Zdravko Tolimir and Radislav Krstić, to kill the able-bodied Bosnian Muslim men from Srebrenica that were captured or surrendered after the fall of Srebrenica on 11 July 1995 and remove the remaining Muslim population of Srebrenica and Žepa from Republika Srpska with the intent to destroy those Muslims.»
Bush knows this and he knows why the USA had to bomb Serbia to stop the genocide. It seems to me that Kostunica is the only one not to understand... and this is a big mistake that Bush won't tolerate for long.
The Albanians desserves 100 times Kosovo because of the way they were treated in 1999.
President Bush tried to remember what he said. He does remember how to emphasize the letter "o" in KosovO: http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2007/06/10/malveaux.bush.albania.visit.cnn&wm=11
"Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? (Mikel, Monday, 11 June, 2007, 12:33)"
Mikel, I can understand your anger and your frustration, but isn't it a little insulting to come onto B92 itself and claim not one single Serb did anything to help you, when the staff of B92 put their very lives on the line in order to bring the truth to the Serbian people about what was going on. Why can't you acknowledge that some Serbs were true heroes and stood up against Milosevic? There were in fact many of us that did not agree with what was going on. Many Serbs did in fact give their lives opposing Milosevic. Do you even know what B92 went through during the time period in which you discuss?
I'll turn the question around and ask where were you in 2004 when Albanians were hunting Serbs?
Mathew, it was not just MILOSEVIC. Serbs try to blame him for everything, like it was just that guy with a great knife walking through the streets of Kosovo and killing everybody, meanwhile the innocent and peaceful serbs didnt have a clue of what that maniac was doing. The truth, actually is bitter: It was all the serbs backing him. I dont know of how B92 acted. From what I googled I learned that B92 was an independent radio channel which stood for the opposition interests within Serbia. That's all I know. Sorry again if I am missing facts. And respect for what they did, if they were able to raise against the common way of thinking around there and if they showed the other side of the story.
All I know is that except of Natasa Kandic, I never, never saw a single serb sayin "sorry" for what their army, police and fellow chetniks, (komits, sokole, or whatever you call them) from Kosovo did to albanians. Everybody was so proud to see how the "terrorists" were being smashed by the glorious Serbia. And everybody was convinced that the only guys in Kosovo seeking freedom were a bunch of islamic, dirty, longbirded, primitive terrorists. The truth is totally different. IT WAS ALL OF ALBANIANS. 2 millions. And I am impressed to see how serbs here try to count also other minorities of Kosovo as serb supporters. Actually, go and ask turks, croats, bosnians or even roma, what they think about Kosovo's independence. Except of serbs, everybody agrees: Kosovo deserves independence.
As for your last question, asking me where I was when albanians were hunting serbs the answer is: I was in Germany, because the serb army burned down my home in Gjakova, because the serb police ravaged my "butique".
Best regards.
Hi Jovan!
With your third or fourth comment you just confirmed not only nervosnes but even panic too!
Dont vorry we are gonna live side by side each on its own!
I was trapped in Belgrade during the war. I was a student there. You right. Some Serbian News Agencies were reporting the attrocities. It had no effect. 98. If B92 was anti-Miloshevic, they can still be. How about sanctioning Princip's Miloshevic's type comments, and definetly banning Jovan's arrogant and racist comments.
I would like a response of this from editors of B92.
The world community is coming to realise that there was NO genocide. it was perpetrated by the west (evil clinton) to serve their own agenda's. they employed the wanting and ignorant kla, which they trained, but the show is being exposed. like a cheap magic act. typical usa policy. send in the cia, make some trouble, train the local rebels, help create disaster, justify your presence, come in and be chief. i hate the way my country does business. i am ashamed of them (politicos).
am sorry but you do not know what are you talking about and your writing shows a lot your background. Kosova is part of Albanian nation, the oldest nation living in this trouble side which is called Balkan.The oldest churches in Kosova are Albanian churches because we did belong before you in Christianity and the archeological side show our anciently and civilization since in Homeric and Pelasgic time.
Serb politicians must understand that Kosovo is not going to go back under Serbia again! They are trying to blame it to the US, Ahtisari, etc., but the province and hopes for a peaceful living under Serbia were shattered like glass by Serb leadership in the first place.
Can you put together a shattered piece of glass?
Also, all former-communist Balkan countries are eager to become EU and NATO members. What this means is no boundaries and economic development. So, as much as upsetting the word independence is for the Serbia, Kosovo and Serbia will still be neighbors and in the long run both countries have to put behind them the past and think about a better future.
If Albania is Mother to you and all Kosovar Albanians then what are you doing in Serbia? Are you in Serbia illegally? Do you have a Serbian citizenship card or passport? Can you prove that you are in the country legally, if you can't you should be deported at once! That is what the Americans would do with Mexican illegals and even Canadien Illegals.
10000 Albanian civilian were killed only during the last conflict hundred thousands were force to leave, Kosova is NOT yours anymore, if you want to be good neibourgh in the future you should feel sorry and appologise to Albanian nation, still masive grave are foumd in serbia
If you don't know the history how do you think you can talk about the future, and I talk with facts, and most importantly is what happens behind the camera, President Bush knows Albanian history better than any foreigner and june 10th he said it wright. By the way none of albanians in Kosovo carry serbian passaports or any ID whatsoever because they are not worth it, in fact they are invalid since the end of the war 1999. It's time to celebrate the newest country in the world or country number 193.
First and foremost, I am truly sorry for what you and your people suffered. I'm a Western Born Serb, so it is easier for me to be objective about such things. My wife is from Krajina, so I do understand how brutal the Balkans can be at times, and no one should suffer as your people did, regardless of their ethnicity.
If you're interested, I suggest you read "Guerilla Radio" by Matthew Collin, its all about B92 and what they went through during the Milosevic era. It might change some of your opinions on Serbs. We are not one unified block, and we disagree as much as any people.
As far as the Roma of Kosovo go, although I have no direct experience with that, I have seen Albanian posters here on B92 refer to Roma families in Kosovo as "Serbs" in a very negative context accusing them of crimes, at least the Serbian speaking Roma families, so I'm not convinced that they were not targeted by some sectors of Albanian society, but that's not really important…
You know, as far as the average Serb goes, I think its all very similar to the US in many regards. Somewhere around 50% of the American population believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the 9/11 Terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. Its more a matter of education and such, and not that all Serbs agreed with the harsh policies meted out towards your people.
So, personally, I support partition as I do believe your people should live as they wish. I do believe our churches represent the cradle of our civilization, so I would support granting Presevo Independence as well in exchange for some important concessions in regards to our cultural sites. I also believe that since the average Serb from Kosovo is just about as likely as the average Albanian to be counted among the dead, cleansed and missing that our population deserves to live under Serb rule. I'm not trying to belittle what you suffered, which was state sponsered terrorism, plain and simple, but the fact is the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims is roughly 1 to 10 mirroring the population. Doesn't matter to me the why, how, or when, just that both our people suffer when we are in the minority position, so maybe its better for us to go our separate ways for now.
As far as sanctioning Princip or Jovan, I think all ideas should be heard, even if to expose them as false. Jovan and I have disagreed with in the past, as well as other Serbs here. PB for example told me recently if I were Orthodox, he was a Martian. As far as Princip goes, I've never seen him make up numbers or use racist slurs. I've even seen him apologize for the crimes suffered by the Albanians. I think he's a decent guy and to be honest, I don't really understand why what he says upsets people so much? His vision seems to be one of living together in harmony, as naïve as I personally believe that to be, I am and always will be a Yugophile, so I actually agree with his vision, despite the fact that I don't think its really practical. If anyone should be censored, it should be Ahmet's lies that Serbs drowned those two boys in the river that started the 2004 riots, this is clearly incitement to violence, it is actually a very very dangerous thing to say, people lost their lives as a result of these "rumors". Or possibly maybe Victor for libeling the Serbian nation as a whole with his made up numbers and actrocities motivated by hate and xenophobia. Although as I've stated before, in a way in this format it’s a positive thing to correct such disinformation as spouts from Victors mouth. Most of it is a repetition of early propaganda against Serbs that has been disproven later, such as 100,000 women raped in Bosnia, or 250,000 killed. Both numbers Victor still claims as true.
As far as Bush goes, the far right in the US has always been against the bombing of Serbia, so I'm not sure just how deep Bush's comittment to Kosovo really is. In fact, to be honest, as a Serb, if the democrats come to power, you will most certainly have stronger support from the US. So far all I've seen Bush do is make a comment or two, and then promptly forget exactly what it was that he said, which is very typical of Bush. So for those of you who think the Serbs are just stalling, I want you to know, that stalling really isn't in the best interest of the Serbs. Right now we actually have one of the most sypathetic regimes in power in the US, and we should focus on that.
Kosovars are getting independency because of people like you. From this forum everybody can see that Albanians were right on their intentions and goals...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
The prospect of giving Kosovo to the Albanians post NATO war was always on the table with Clinton, in fact he wanted to do that but psycho President Milosevic would have none of it! In fact he refused to pull his troops from Kosovo unless there was assurances that Kosovo shall remain Serbian. And Clinton knew he could not bomb Serbia for much longer and that there would have to be a ground invasion of Serbia unless Milosevic gave up, there was no way NATO wanted to fight the Serbs on the ground, if they had it would have been much worse then what is going on in Iraq now, so Clinton made sure that in resolution 1244 it clearly stated that Kosovo remain Serbian.
Fine Mr Bush I completly agree the time is up on the folly of attempts at dismembering a UN member state. In which case why when the US was the presidency of the UN SC did they not vote on the proposal that will 'inevitably' be vetoed???
This is what the US said they would do in May but what then was the reason to continue giving a false hope - this is unfair to the Serbian citzens and inparticular to those Serbian citizens in Kosovo & Metohija - so be honest with them and end the false hope wwhich is now inevitable!
Kosovo & Metohija is an integral part of the UN recognised state of Serbia as reconfirmed by the UN resolution that the US itself formulated and signed and if Mr Bush is genuine then the satus will be resolved with the continuation of Serbian sovereignity!
I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires. Are we not all Europeans? The EU ethos is not about creating thousands of multi-ethnic entities with new borders and illuminating what seperates but quite the opposite about unity!!!
No matter how much you hate the other people, we are all just passing through on this planet. We would all do a lot better and live happier lives if we could put away our hate and try to understand the other side. We all want the same thing-- to live freely, without fear and conflict. Each of us should start respecting the other side as human beings. Peace starts with each one of us. The reality is that we must learn to live amongst each other in a new found tust and reconciliation - Serbia's integrity being upheld is not negative but can be positive for all it's citzens - no matter what their ethnic heritage is. Lets work together for the win-win that all the peoples of Serbia deserve.
the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia, it tells you pretty much everything you wnat to know about US resolve to move along with Kosova's Independence.Does any serb has any idea why Bush is not visiting serbia? ... becasue they have nothing in common.
ok folks -- for once i agree with "my" president -- the time is up! wake up world, wake up europe, wake up serbia. independence for kosovo/a, and the last, final nail in yugoslavia's coffin. and then we can move forward with all of the other pressing issues...
If Russia vetoes and they still go ahead by recognising unilateral independence, it will change the entire order of international security. The implications are massive.
And what happens to the troops on the ground? This is not feasible and the ramifications are too great.
Bush is still talking about offering an incentive to Serbia (EU membership and better US relations etc.) which means he realises that this has to be done legally.
Which country would give up 15% of its territory to join a club??? Wipe out its history for a few dollars?! Not everything can be bought.
“But, I can talk to the Serbs about economic development, and can talk about a better relationship with the United States" he said"
What can the world's biggest debtor possibly offer Serbia economically? And "a better relationship" only means that Serbia must become another lackey of the US. Don't fall for it!
The reality is that US is desperate to retain Albanian friendship because it is hated by the other Muslims all over the world.
[ the fact itself that Mr. Bush is visiting Albania and not rouge state of serbia..] comment by ahmes isufi!
oh ahmet isufi, my dear...the mere fact that it is exclusively the US-Marines securing Bush´s visit to that country shows how much trust the Americans have in albanian security measures, AND what is very interesting, how unimportant albanian sovereignty seems to be, since the Albanians do not seem to have protested against it.
calling Serbia a rogue-state shows your limited ability to see the "bigger picture".
you would probably applaude even if G.I.´s did all those things you are accusing the Serbs of.
Kostunica and posters here keep saying that Kosovo is 15% of SErbia's territory. It's just over 12%. This shows how much you and your premier know about kosovo. Kosovo's population density is double that of Serbia, which means that it would make 25% of its population if it were a part of it. In 50 years, albanians would make 60% of population and would overlflow Kosovo. Wake up and forget about Russia, double standards, substantial autonomy....
Kosovo will be independendt one way or another. The sooner, the better for everyone(especially for Serbia. Serbs need to realize that their way out is toward the West and not East. Russian doesn't have food to feed it's people let along support Serbia...The probelm is the Serbian leadership. They seem to be afreaid the admit that the Kosovo is lost. The sooner they accept this fact and can deliver the message to their own people, the faster they can move forward. The more support they get from Russia, the more they isolate them selfs from EU/US...peace...move on...
Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it.
If Mr Bush wants the Kosovo to be an independent state, then with the same logic could also the American state, Texas become a independent state. will agree he in a such possibility. Rather no. Then why Mr Bush does fight in order to break Serbia?
Princip UK, stop insulting ALBANIANS calling their Kosovo "serbian region of Kosovo and Metohija". And above all, STOP insulting them, puting the prefix "serbian citizen" before that "albanian heritage". 90% of population in Kosovo is not of "albanian heritage". They ARE ALBANIANS. Is there need for reconciliation between both nations, serbs and albanians? Yes for sure. But first, serbs must be liberated by the influence of a heavy goebelsian propaganda which claims Kosovo is a serbian soil. It has never been. Serbs occupied Kosovo in 1913. This is the alfa and the omega. See this side of the mirror, and you will understand is not a matter of national proudness. Is a question of giving back what you stole to an unlucky people.
Just ignore provocations. Serbia should just follow the rule of law. The Western financial elites cannnot 'proclaim' or 'negotiate' Serbia's territory away against Serbia's wishes. The fact the Western leaders'are only being cheered in Albania and Kosovo speaks volumes. Their own populations have rejected them in clear terms. The Western imperialism is crashing. In front of our eyes. Only a negotiated settlement between Kosovo Albanians and Serbia will work in the long run. Nothing else will do.
I would like to see what he will have for plan B hen this falls through after a Russian VETO. NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY WILL RECOGNISE Kosovos independence other then the US and maybe Britain. The troops in Kosovo will become an occupying force and once they leave welcome back to Serbia.
"We're winning the war on terror"
"Fool me once, shame on you..."
"WE never promised the Kurds anything?!"
"I DIDN'T have sexual relations with Monica Lewinski"...
Famous quotes by powerful Americans..
All hot air and bluster..
Whatever the outcome is, i agree with Princip..
People need to start talking..
Stop building walls of separation, admit to mistakes, look for forgiveness and find a common ground..
Throughout this whole process, both US and Russia hasn't allowed this to happen..They've fostered animosity for their OWN goals..
I've been on this board long enough to realize that the whole time people have been tit-tatting at one another in the name of their small peoples. In the meanwhile the US has still kept their army bases in Eastern Europe, and the Russians are simply yelling back...
I wish that both Serbs and Albanians have had eight years to simmer down, take a breath, and at least talk..My bigger wish, is that the bigger powers would allow this to happen...
But they don't..
Wake up. Don't hang on Bush's and Putin's words!!!!!!
They're simply hoping to add salt and pepper to a hot stew..
Bush and Putin yelling from treetops, at the expense of good hearted peoples should be a sign that nobody really cares for anything in the name of Albania or Serbia....
For once Bush is right. Whether 12% or 15%, Serbia should recognize that the important number is 95%, which is the proportion of Kosovars that want a divorce from Serbia. EU membership offers a way for both republics of Kosovo and Serbia to co-exist as good neighbours with EU guaranteed freedoms and rights. Who can blame Kosovars for not trusting Serb promises, when its politcians are lying to Serbs, and maintaining a most corrupt and unpopular regime? Russia is no real friends of anybody in Europe; onlt last week Putin was threatening to point weapons of mass destruction at Europe!
Those Americans have come half way arround the world to divide the people in the Balkans while they are doing everything to integrate and absorb Canada as the next state of the Union. Bush needs to keep his stars and stripes wagon and his war-mongering imperialistic policies in Washington and out of Europe You don’t need to add his stupidity since in Albania and Serbia you have enough of your own. If you can’t see Bush's nostalgia for the good old days of the arms race in Europe by these comments you have no idea how American economy works. As I said before today’s pig is tommorrow’e baccon with eggs on the American plate.
Poor George is blundering into yet another foreign policy debacle. If the resolution is vetoed, K-Albanians declare independence and the US recognizes it, then what? For the US, this is no problem - they have achieved their goal of signaling that the US can be good to Muslims. But for Europe it would be a huge crisis. The whole EU order is based on the principle of legality. If the word of countries like France and Germany is no good, then what is the purpose of signing treaties with them? I have a hard time seeing that any EU state would recognize Kosovo's independence without a UN mandate. This will create a huge rift in Europe, and severely damage the transatlantic relationship. Kosovo will be seen by Europeans as yet another example of US reckless unilateralism. If cooler heads prevail in Washington, they will not risk this relationship over Kosovo. But then poor George have boosted expectations, which will create huge disappointments among Albanians.
Listen Serbian guys/girls! I also think that dismembering a UN member state is a dangerous precedent, and I think that the US needs to rush to Bilbao and tell the Basques to continue the ETA attacks until the US-backed independence from Spain. But it is terribly NAIVE to rely on Russia! These guys are just as bad! if not worse. The pan-slavic propaganda is working unfortunately, but I've been to Russia and they call Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats etc. "blacks" (because they think of them as inferior for not having enough blond people - racist idiots). Russia wants to use the Slavic Balkan nations to de-stabilize the region - they love conflict, just like in Transnistria or the Caucasus.
Wake up Serbs! Everybody will sell you out: the EU, the US, and Russians. You might have better friends in your own neighbourhood (Bulgaria, Romania) if you stopped thinking they too are inferior to you and don't deserve a nod.
Ok, Ahmet,Hekuran,Genc, M.Miller, Valon, John2, and aa,
in which case lets see what Bush achieves this week seeing as now he says time is up even though he said that for May and sent Condi to Russia supposedly to convey the message!!!
I am willing to put some money on a new understanding from Bush very soon. The EU will be ensuring Bush thinks through his words and comes up with a better idea since they have signed up to a UN solution only - and we all know what happened the last time Mr Bush ignored the UN - this time he won't even have his pal "yo Blair" to back him up seeing as he is so discredited and has resigned with 27th June as the final day!!! If Bush was to act so recklessly then expect the fall of the US far faster then many have predicted!!
I hope these last statements from the President of the United States bring the Serbs to their senses.
Kosovo will be a state whether Russia, Serbia or whoever else likes it or not.
I am overjoyed and any further analysis seems pointless.
Jovan,
Why exactly would Albanians protest at having 500 US soldiers provide the necesary security for Bush? The US soldiers are our soldiers, we have trusted them with our lives in Kosovo and Albania and there is no reason whatsoever that they shouldnt be allowed to protect their President.
We fully support the USA and we would immediatly apply for membership in the US if it was offered to us.
THe most powerfull country on Earth is on our side and you cant do a thing abou it. In the words of the famous Star Trek, RESISTANCE IN FUTILE.
To Princip, Kate and others whom share the same view with them in here,
I hope you got the crystal clear messege from President Bush. "The time is now.....and we need to get moving...the result INDEPENDENCE and ....enough is enough". I have pointed it out several times for our B92 audiance that is the best solution for the region and Serbia itself. In English there is a saying "It is not the knocks that you take in life but the way how you take them". I hope that you will get the meaning of it at the end...it might take some time but we still can live together as good neighbours. Regards EA
I agree, enough is enough! Americans have had enough of this administration and the world has had enough of the US dictating its will upon weaker nations, upsetting the international order, invading or bombing sovereign nations (without congress declaring war) enough is enough, the world and Serbia's sovereign territory is not yours to do with as you wish! "Bush expressed frustration about the lack of international consensus on granting Kosovo independence from Serbia". Mr. Bush, America, get ready to be "frustrated" more and more because your ability to project your will (violating international law, aggression against nations that made no aggressive actions towards you) is nearing and end. It is time for the US to act like a responsible member of the international community.
Another example of Bush's idea of democracy. "Accept our proposal, or we'll have to ram it down you throat"! This Bush oligarchy has destroyed what the USA used to stand for. It is time for Americans to take back their country.
Bush can say whatever he wants, but his credibility in the world is close to zero. This is hardly making any news in the United States. Any stories relating to US-Russian relations being strained only seems to focus on the issue of missle defense systems in Europe. Kosovo is not even mentioned. Even the big newspapers like the New York Times or the Washington Post have stopped reporting any activities on Kosovo. Both papers have extensively written editorials in the past over how the province should be given independence. Now both are interestingly silent, with the occasional "pay attention to me" articles by Richard Holbrooke. Articles of Bush visiting Albania focused more or the wierdness of a country that adores him, rather than organizng protest rallies against him. The whole episode has become convoluted and selective in our press.
Still, Bush can say whatever he wants, but the question that no one is able to firmly answer is WHEN Kosovo will get its independence, HOW it will look after independence, and under what contexts will indepdendence come. It seems to me that if the Albanians' wish is to come true, considerable concessions will have to be given to both Serbia and Russia; more than what is being offered now, and I think many Albanians will be quite upset to see the type of state that results from their "independence by any means" campaign. So right now, Bush saying "Kosovo should be independent" has about as much depth as "Iraq should be democratic": in theory it would solve a lot of problems, but it's a long long way from manifesting.
You'll have to forgive Bush...his words don't necessarily reflect those of a bright individual.
I'm going to put this out on the table as thus: 1. Bush has no full idea what he's talking about, 2. He doesn't understand the ramifications of what may come about by his straight talk, 3. Nor could he locate where Serbia and/or Albania are on a map.
But anyway, if this decision does come about, it'll be up to the people of Southeastern Europe to follow the lead of what Princip in the UK said in paragraphs 4 and 5.
Independence for Kosovo is not an end in itself. We honestly have to learn to live together...forever. And we simply HAVE to do this. I mean, we're talking about an area that's so close together, that no amount of hatred can exist if any progress/friendliness/cooperation is to EVER emerge.
This isn't the Middle East, this is Europe. And we need to forgive more, hate less, and help one another get out of the hell we've been through in the past.
Kate you’re definitely right when you said "Not everything can be bought" that’s what Serbs of Montenegro said before the referendum...what happened? Maybe your phrase does not apply to Serbs.
The inability to understand the current situation in Kosova/o its evident on this forum, though at times it's pointless to state the obvious.
Serbia lost Kosova/o in 1999 conflict (FACT), therefore most of the Serbian people already know and have conformed to the reality (there are some with high tendency to daydream otherwise)
There is no Serbian army or police in Kosova/o (FACT), there is no Serbian government in Kosova/o (FACT), in fact there is nothing of Serbian state in Kosova/o and all of you know it.
So far, those who are opposing (Russia, Serbia and..... sorry thats all) Kosova's independence have not come forth with constructive/comprehensive alternative sustainable solution to the independence because there is no alternatives to the independence.
Instead the very rouge nations who have no respect for the international law seek to be protected by the very laws they have brutally violated and continue to do so to date. Hence, the idea that Russia and Serbia are democratic (governments) is laughable.
Nevertheless here is what President Bush said and i quote: “At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, KOSOVA IS INDEPENDENT”.
Thank you USA, thank you Mr.Bush, thank you West... Finally ex Yugoslavia is dead and Kosova Free... Sorry Serbia, you are going East and we are very close to West --> Serbs have chosen wrong way..Good luck to you as well... Regards from Prishtina
Albanian people received again guarantee for its independence from the USA President Bush.
Thank you dear Mr. President.
It is historical day!
God blessed Amerika!
Lumnije Krasniqi, Prishtina
To the Serbs that kept doubting if US will unilaterally recognize Kosova's independence, read what Bush said: "At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you've got to say enough is enough, Kosovo is independent" How can he be more clear than that!
So US will recognize Kosova and so will most EU countries, UK, Germany, France etc and the relevant Balkan countries, Albania, Macedonia, Croatia Slovenia and Bosnia. That is all we need. Russia will be proven again that is of no importance in this matter.
Sadly President Bush, my commander in chief and the man I voted for in 2004, continues along the same failed lines that America committed in the Balkans in the 1990s.
American policy in the Balkans has failed and the government is afraid of admitting such a failure. President Bush, who I still support, was very critical of American intervention during the national debates with then Vice President Al Gore.
The realities on the ground are not irreversible but the west lacks the political will to do the right thing.
Mr. Princip...I do agree with some of your thoughts such as “We all want the same thing-- to live freely” but did you ever asked yourself did Albanian people of former Yugoslavia ever “live freely”? No, Mr. Princip they never had any rights in any state of the former Yugoslavia. And do not forget Albanian people did not emigrate from Albania to Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Greece; that was, it is and it will be their land.
I liked this commend as well “I implore the Serbian citzens of ethnic-Albanian heritage in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija that we must all learn to put the past behind and stop with hate against each other - such diversions do little to help in the economic progression that the region desperatly requires.” Yes, we all must learn “to put the past behind” but Albanian people can not do that because they are the one who were occupied and suffered for centuries, and if they remain part of Serbia (which it will not happen) how do they know the genocide against them will not happen again in the future. Mr. Princip, how about we give to the people of the Balkans what they want (independence) and then we all work together as neighbors
One think you should have add to your comment Mr. Princip is that Serbian citizens of Serbian heritage in Serbia and other neighboring countries should wake up and stop dreaming of “big Serbia”. Obviously it is not happening. Decades have past and nothing positive happened in Serbia or to Serbian people. Every move they made it was the wrong one and they lost every battle they had. Forget Russia they have tons of their own problems and they are not really a good sample to be looked at. Russia, with the promises of “big Serbia, is the one that brought Serbia and Serbian people to their original state THE “BEOGRADSKI PASHALUK”.
A sufficiently clear message from USA. As I said previously the more Serbia objects the more it pushes itself in the corner. Guess what's coming next? Vojvodina, Sandzak, Presevo Valley...there seem a consensus is building among Balkan nations that steps are needed to bring Serbia to its natural borders too..unless such post-Milosevic-Milosevic-inspired politics that is still practiced in Serbia stops once and forever.
Read the BBC journal article about Bush coming to Albania.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6738275.stm
It is actually quite funny. Albanian army had to surrender their weapons! They stood there with their hands behind there backs. They renamed a street after Bush. And they are European? Europe is about protesting America!
my dear boys... I am surprised by this uproar among you! do you REALLY believe what Bush is saying to you? you buy everything, it seems!
now that they know there is no cheap bargain with the Russians possible and therefore no resolution passing the UNSC, that´s the only thing the US can do right now! calming down the albanian street.
but, after all, that´s nothing of importance, since the any status decision can only be made WITHIN the UNSC. do you get it?
it doesn´t really look very good, how you are degrading yourself by hailing mr.Bush.
Why is Bush not visiting Kosovo? It has nothing to do with security. He visited Iraq and came home alive. Anyway him not visiting Kosovo shows you how much he cares about you people.
Bush can say what he wants, history taught us that today's enemy is our tomorrow's friend.
USA have elections very soon, the hot potato for the USA is how to get out of Irag without it's image damaged. As for Kosovo, the solution will go along with the progress os Serbia towards the E.U.
"Again they are trying to buy the Serbs out with EU membership and economic insentives.
This "solution" will cause bloodshed in the future I am sure of it"
@Vuk
hold your horses..
probably you and your srbs pals Wish you would trade Kosova for EU membership. you still have to deal with war criminals and other EU membership requirements.
Observers widely regard Bush as a lame duck president in these last two years before the elections. In need of a cheap and easy PR success, he thought that preaching to the crowd (i.e. declaring his support for the 'independence' of Kosovo) would do it. Well, there's really nothing else he could say about Albanian with regards to human rights, poverty, crime etc. etc.
Why is he in Albanian? Since the end of the Cold War, Albanian has been regarded as strategic importance to the US, hence being the most regularly visited state by top us defense and military officials. It has only become more important since the agreement to build the Burgas-Volre pipeling, the US seeing its deepwater ports as its main assets.
So, this visit is not about the U.S. president's love for the albanian people, it's about the U.S. strategic interests and it always has been. The president's announcment is just the equivalent of the icing on the cake, i.e. to keep the people sweet. Like other major 'power' countries, the U.S. has 'friendly countries', but most are 'interests' rather than 'friends'. What the U.S. actually has 'in commmon' is very very few, and very very far apart.
I keep hearing from Serbs here how the US, the UK, France etc. should be dismembered. That is a complete state of denial. Wake up and realize that it is those countries that have the power to do whatever they want with Kosovo and not vice versa, meaning Serbia or even Russia have no power whatsoever to dismember those countries.
If the US federal institutions violated every basic human right and committed genocide against Texas citizens, Texas governor would declare independence. Arnold would do the same thing if this was done to California citizens.
So spare us of the comparisons. Bangladesh was no precedent. Pakistan was no precedent. East Timor was no precedent. Kosova will be no precedent.
The only precedent that the independent Kosova will be known for is that if you commit genocide against an ethnic group, you will lose the right to govern that ethnic group and the territory that they reside in.
President Bush, Thank You.
I really regret not voting for you in 2000 and 2004.
we have all to be very gratefull to président Bush:at least a very clear message,without double understanding,without possibility of misinterpreting!
So now every body is fully aware of what the future of kosovo will beand each of us has to chose what he wants to do .
President Bush puts an end to the game of the serbian politician with the fate of kosovo serbs,président Bush puts aside the albanian frustration,and président Bush says that america will help both our countries in the future...
so my serbian guys,be brave for once,and accept that you were wrong in killing so many people,in destroying so many houses,in choising always the wrong side during these 20 years!
at the end ,be courageous:try to chose for an occidental future and not a russian one!
once again,thank you,mr president for being cristal clear!
Christos: Kosovo can be declared an independent state since a war was fought (and won by NATO) and an external entity (the UN, through UNMIK) essentially became the government, provided security, etc.
The Serbian government hasn't been in power in Kosovo since 1999 as a result of UN Security Council Res. 1244. This means that Kosovo is already a independent state in practice, it just needs the official declaration.
it is time for serbian government to ask the american ambassador to leave serbia. it should be explained to him and the us administration that this kind of anti-serbian stand is not acceptable. serbia should freeze any further military / nato talks until the us apologize and the kosovo matter is resolved to serbia's satisfaction .
One thing is clear: an American president doesn't just publicly commit to a policy if his administration is unsure about it.
There is a firm line on this: the US policy is to ensure the advent of a new Kosovar state.
Thus, it is only a matter of time when this happens. There's no doubt about IT happening.
There are two ways: one is thru a controlled UN process, in which case Russia can decide for its own where its interests lie; OR thru a unilateral pathway.
In either case, independence is where we'll end up at. The Russians know this: they know they can't stop it; they're either trying to push up the price for their eventual agreement, or they simply want to make themselves look relevant.
But, people tend to forget one fact: Kosovo is a western project - i cant seem to emphasize this enough! Thus, it will be settled on the West's terms.
If we end up on an uncontrolled unilateral pathway, the price will be paid mostly by the Serian minority in Kosovo, which will be stripped off its autonomy-level protections enshrined in the Ahtisari Plan. Doesn't seem to me they're a concern of anyone, including their brethren Slavs.
The Serbian pain over the 'loss' of Kosovo is long overdue: punishing them for the horrendous war crimes of 1990s, and teaching them a historical lesson on their destructive chauvenism.
Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent. At that time France tried to play the big boy by treatening to use her veto in the case of Irak. Nothing could stop superpower US. France was too little and impuissant to stand in its way. Now it will be the same. Russia has delusions of grandeur and feels that it can dictat the course of events. Well little Vlad will get the same lesson as little Jacques got 4 years ago.
There are negotiations to be done. The political campaign has worked so far.
Bush's display will not actually win respect. European politicians know that there are many issues in which he plays no part and of which he has no understanding.
Democratic Serbia has shown much willingness to be adaptable on issues but must be respected in defending its land.
Further negotiations are essential for the future of the region.
Serbia is increasingly being proactive in negotiating a wide range of topics and it will take on an increasingly important regional role. That cannot be the case for Kosovo.
Princip, those are fine words, pity you only use them when you and serbia are backed into a corner and want to pretend that everyone should get along, however as soon as something is said in media to put kosovo in corner, do you use the same words? No, you in fact continue the attack and makes you quiet two faced really. unfortuntately people in this forum dont forget.
Bush: Kosovo will get independence!!
Thank You, President for the support for kosova albanian people will always love your country thats why we send troops to iraq and afganistan.kosova is gonna be independent no matter what.thank you for coming to albania, albanian people will always love you and american people
After signing over 4 billion in business deals in St. Petersburg Putin spoke out against American unilateralism. He also spoke out against the financial monopoly of the G8 saying “50 years ago, 60 per cent of world gross domestic product came from the Group of Seven industrial nations. Today, 60 per cent of world GDP came from outside the G7.” He wants changes so that interest of smaller nations are considered. He said that “Institutions created with a focus on a small number of active players sometimes look archaic, undemocratic and unwieldy. They are a far cry from recognising the existing balance of power,”
Putin also spoke about the Kosovo issue saying that “undermining Serbia’s sovereignty does not correspond to moral or legal norms’’, and “I got an impression that finally our arguments are being treated seriously by our G8 colleagues.’’
George Bush obviously did not get the message but that is understandable because it flies in the face of the American Agenda for the Twenty First Century” and its unilateral world vision.
i don't see here actually a real opinion of why and what Bush said. As we know there was no agreement on the G8 about Kosovo. And now suddenly he openly propagate an independent Kosovo? It is all fake people! Bush must say this because he wants his protection shields in The Czech Republic and in Poland. Not in Azerbeidjan because that's not in the influence sphere of the US. So, probably in 1-2 weeks you will see that Putin slowly will accpet it (or maybe it will go to Azerbeidjan) and in exchange the decision on Kosovo will be delayed, delayed and finally no one wants to talk about it then the Albanians only!
Goodmorning all,
I think now it is time for Serbian leadership that they no longer can keep Kosova. Kosova has its own leaders, its own institutions, its identity and language and practically it is independent since 1999. No one in Balkans wants to live with Serbs in one "federation". Especially Albanians of Kosova who had suffered so much under the Serbian oppression. They have shown their will, in different ways, ever since they were occupied by Serbia early 20th Century. Waiting to join Europe, that the past problems to disappear, it is just a fantasy, for both, serbs and albanians. Kosova is independent day by day. The sooner Serbians understands this the better for them. After all, the bloody 'Greater Serbian' nightmare is over. Do you get it? Kosova will soon recognised as an independent state and wise serbs know it.Its Over.
Bush is talking unilateral recoginition because he knows the proposed resolution in its present form will not pass the UNSC.
The net result on the ground will be de facto partition -- the north declaring itself part of Serbia thru 1244.
Hot words from both sides will follow, but will not be allowed to translate into war because Nato is already overstretched in Afghanistan, Iran and Sudan. Nato will quietly tell Pristina that unilateral recognition is on condition that K-Albanians start economy building and not violence. In decades to come, the de facto partition will become de jour.
Kate,
it is time to put an end to the post WW2 world order (ruling of UN Security Council) since WW3 has already been fought and won by NATO against Warsaw PAct.
It is time to respect the will of the people.
That said EU and NATO should link Kosovo's independence recognition to protection of Serb minority end its effective represantation in Kosovar political Institutions.
Jovan, 100 of secret service agents including marines were sent to Italy and all countries that were visited by Bush. So, Albanian was no exeption either.Som much for your coment.
i saw in the CNN the live telecast of the press conference. mr bush almost forgot what to say then he looked in his codigo. when he was asked about deadline he seemed shocked and couldnt give a date except the phrase > the time is now, the end goal is independence. these are diplomatic words. of course his ambassador in the UNSC is the lead actor in the YES vote. the BIG problem is russia. bush did not manage to comvince putin in the G8. without russia's yes means no independence even with cowboy bush overwhelming YES.
Princip,Jovan,Kate and others,
Specially you Lazar!
Don't be so nervous!
Don't panic!
If you are so sure that Kosova is not getting what it deserves (Independence),then why are you so nervous.
It i9s independent from 1999 and it will just be recognized it all!
As for seccurity of Bushs visit and the protocolar procedure,best picture was shown in that small vilage of Fushe Kruje when people brocked protocoles and expressed their devotion and love to US and President G.W.BUSH.
God Bless USA.
God Bless Albania!
God Bless albanians whenever they are!
bush stance was all diplomatic. everybody knows that US is in favor of independence. of all his european tours, protestors are there. only in albania was he welcomed like a hero. all the advanced european coutries knows that he is the worst president of the USA and here comes a country giving him the 21 cannon salute.
Joe,
your absolutely right on the fact that Mr Bush as the President of the US cannot do what he blurted out over the weekend. I commend you for realising that this is not achievable via LEGAL processes of the UN. like you say;
"Since Russia is hell bent on a veto at the UN it is very likely that the independence of Kosovo will happen without a UN resolution. It will be a repetition of 2003, when the UN became irrelevent."
I wish there were more critcal analysis from ethnic-Albaninan commentators. You undertsanding is spot on if Bush is to be held to his word then it will not be through the UN. Seeing as Bush has said "time is up" lets see him put this through the UN this week!!! More importantly lets see him take responsibility for his words and actions in the evident repurcusions that he has been warned can occur and also surely from the huge lesson you would have thought he learnt following on from his ill-thought actions in 2003!!!
I am certain Bush will need to visit Albania very soon to explain why he gave false hope and could not deliver on his predecessors dubiuos promise! Don't be surprised if he tries to back track this week on what he did or did not say!
Joe and others,
Why do you think I have being stating that we need to divert away from the path that such irresponsible words of Bush will result in - all will lose in pursuing such folly - no one deserves the misery of what would follow. Surely it is better that the barriers are removed and all the peoples of Serbia learn to find a way that is a win-win - it is in everyones best interest! Bush and the lack of thought in what happens next is not something that the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija needs - ask an Iraqi if they are happier now then they were before 2003???? Is this what you desire for Kosovo & Metohija???
Daniel, I have asked you previously to please provide evidence of your insinuations against me - look through the archives and either provide evidence or stop insulting - I am sure you are aware of the rules of these comments! Stick to the subject and please don't bring in your hatred at someone you have never even personally met - it does little for your credibility and adds very little to the comments page!!!
Finally I will add is that Ahtisaari 'Lite' (Ahtisaari + Serbian continued sovereignity) really is the best option possible and with Mr Bush suggesting "time is up" he has made this a finite time frame which he either backs down on in the next week or otherwise all will have lost out from his reckless words and actions that may follow!!
First, President Bush does not make policy decisions on his own, foreign policy decisions as important as those relating to Kosovo are carefully considered by Washington before statements, such as those made by Bush in Albania are issued. I would have thought even the Serbian posters here would understand this simple fact.
Second, the support of the US is the one and most important thing Albanians in general and Kosovar Albanians in particular care about. It was Woodrow Wilson that prevented Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Bulgaria from tearing Albania to pieces and it will be President Bush who will make Kosovo an independent state.
A very interesting article in the daily Koha Ditore today read "A Phyrric Victory for Serbia in St.Petersburg" Although you may have the support of Mr.Putin and Russia the current position the Government of Serbia has taken will cost Serbia a lot in relations with the West.
I hope Serbia will soon understand that its future lies in the European Union and NATO. The Ballkans wants Serbia to join the EU and end the centuries of Serbian nationalism that have caused so much suffering and hate.
Well, well… the US again reconfirming independence of Kosova...I have a sincere message for my neighbours Serbs, start thinking now about other parts of your country, Vojvodina, Sanxhak and Presheva Valley…as far as UNSC recognition, it doesn’t matter, we will act same as Slovenia did, unilateral declaration followed by recognition from most powerful and developed countries in the world, except poor countries Serbia and Russia. The US Rocks…God Bless the US...Cheers for United State of Albania
To Princip, UK.
You write in moderate way, but the esence is not different from what Milloshevic said on 1989. EU is for integrating all europian countries and nations economically, politically and socially, where all have to be EQUAL. Do you know how 'equal' was an albanian in Yougoslavia, and specially in Serbia, and how 'equal' was an serb in Kosova. That is the main problem, not any serb will accept to go back and be equal with an albanian. Have you ever been in Kosova before?
We can talk, of course, but after we are independent or be what we are: Albania. I would like to comment with you further, if you do have enough time and courage. Here is my email: ardiko82@walla.com
Does anyone even take Bush seriously anymore?? He is a walking disaster, even the Americans say so! Now thats saying something. His little trip to Albania is of no consequence
Hi Foks...here is another piece of news from Bush visi to Sofia...
Sofia. US President George Bush announced at a joint press conference with the Bulgarian Head of State Georgi Parvanov that he deeply respects the progress Bulgaria has made to build a free society, a journalist of FOCUS News Agency reported. As for the Kosovo status, Kosovo should be independent, the US Head of State confirmed.
I hope the Serbs will understand soon that Kosovo isn't anymore and was never an integral part of Serbia. It's over since the ending of Kosovo-War in 1999.
To all those who think that George Bush is the only one in the USA supporting a daydream independence of Kosovo. Take a look what will happen if today Bush resigns and democrats come over. Hillary Clinton's president. Bingo. The first act she will take is granting independence to Kosovo. She is an albanian lobbyst among the US Senat. So, sorry guys, but in the case of Kosovo, Bush is doing right, he has the full support of both sides of US politics, and he is walking in a very left wing and strong moral territory: AUTODETERMINATION of NATIONS.
Finally I have to add a thought to the very moving words of some serbian contributors in this forum about "reconciliation", "forgiveness" and "looking toward the bright future". I fully agree with that. It will come a day when albanians and serbs will sit together around a lovely table and will talk about this lovely notions. But first, justice must have been done. After they accept that all that big issue of "Kosovo cradle of serbs" is just a fiction built by Vuk Karadzic's books, and the only thing that matters is that 95% of the people in that occupied area never accepted their rule, THAN and only THAN we can start that process everybody is eager to see happening in the Balkans. We are so different. We can be good neighbors. But we shouldn't be allowed to rule each other. And don't talk me about: stop the great powers deciding our fate. It was a great power: Russia, which decided in 1913 that Albania should be mutilated (because it isn't slavic) and gave Kosovo to Serbia. Now, sorry, but the story is different. Who makes the rules is someone else, and Russia can only yell a little bit, but just that. But thanks God it is the age of internet, cable tv and satellites and everything what took place in the heart of Europe had witnesses. Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? So dear serbs, you lost your chance. And with that, you lost that territory of Albania which was given to you as a present by Russia. But which you treated like it was your "own" land forcing for years and years the inhabitants of that land to leave, or die.
Mikel, Tirana
it is not 100 marines..., read my comment ( or the news ) more properly! the entire security was provided by american services. there is a difference.
and to the writer who thinks I am nervous:
sorry for you, buddy, but you are wrong. the level of nervousity seems to be very high on the k-albanian side, if we take a look on how you behave because of just a few words spoken by the US-president... =)
Of course, there was a diplomatic connotation of President Bush's speech in Tirana, but message was very clear: AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS KOSOVO WILL BE INDEPENDENT AND NOW IS THE TIME...
Considering that this is declared after consultations at UNSC, CG and G8 everybody should be convinced that this is not his personal statement and statement of USA only, but statement and decision of whole international decision making structures, institutions and community. This message might be not clear only for them who doesn't want to receive it... Matter is that you may not want to receive it, but you can not change it eather...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
It does not matter of what kind of a president he is, what it matters the most to us is whom he represents.
George W Bush visiting Albania represents the American people; therefore he was given a warm welcome.
Any American presidents will be given such welcomes as long as the Lands of the Eagles will exist on this planet.
I can tell you this with certainty, against the humbling odds, mainly due to hostile neighbors our Lands of the Eagles will exist for long time to come, and the Americans will be welcomed at all times.
“The United States has to find some other way to express its love and affection for the Albanians instead of giving them Serbian territory as a present,” Koštunica's words should be repeated by all albanians before they go to bed at night. Laku Noc everyone!
Don't you see you people that the world is divided on two blocks: with USA or another block with Russia (Serbia choosed this one). Of course we Albanians chooseed to be and support USA. We, Albanians are the people who always suffered by Russians alies will get independence.
This is awsome. This tells that USA supports Kosova's indipendence totally and there will be nothing that will stop that. USA ROCKS!!!
(Hekuran, Sunday, 10 June, 2007, 15:13)
okay, this is the first one I'll mention. What bush did was say he supports you. Don't ever confuse his wants with our (American people) wants.
You have the support of a president with a 30% approval rating from the American people. That means 3 out of every 10 of us agree with him and feel he's doing a good job. So I wouldn't get to excited.
To take away 15% of the territory from a country that in 1998 and 1999 tried to kill and expel 22% of its own population? I think it’s a good deal.
Human rights violations are above questions about country borders, and the apologist Serbs should know that. And besides all mediaval religious orthodox myth, Kosovo was part of Serbia for a mere 300 years (first around 200 years during Middle Ages and close to 100 years during Serbo-Yugoslav years). Even if we count the time from the time the slavs came to the Balkans to today, we see that most of the time Kosovo was not part of Serbia, even when Serbia was a mere province of Turkey.
To justify the possession of a territory based on a battle that occurred in 1389 is simply ridiculous.
George W. Bush may be wrong in Iraq, but he’s right on Kosovo.
I ACOMPLETELY AGREE with Mr Bush. Time has come to settle the Kosovo's rep0ort. For years now, Serbia is turning around and make nations are doing the same. Serbia cannot settles this; the USA, once again, will have to wear its big shoes and do the job. Serbia should have cooperated years ago with the UN, the USA and the EU, and Serbia failed... and we all know why: because of a stubborn Kostunica who is protecting pursued for war crimes, and pursuing at the same time the victimization of Serbia. It does not work like this. America knows, just as all the EU that the Serbs had a plan to cleanse Kosovo from all Albanians, just as Milosevic, Karadzic and the Serb general had a plan of committing a genocide against Bosnia. Here what I read this morning in Trbic's indictement: «The indictment alleges that Trbić entered an agreement with several others, including Generals Ratko Mladić, Milenko Živanović, Zdravko Tolimir and Radislav Krstić, to kill the able-bodied Bosnian Muslim men from Srebrenica that were captured or surrendered after the fall of Srebrenica on 11 July 1995 and remove the remaining Muslim population of Srebrenica and Žepa from Republika Srpska with the intent to destroy those Muslims.»
Bush knows this and he knows why the USA had to bomb Serbia to stop the genocide. It seems to me that Kostunica is the only one not to understand... and this is a big mistake that Bush won't tolerate for long.
The Albanians desserves 100 times Kosovo because of the way they were treated in 1999.
President Bush tried to remember what he said. He does remember how to emphasize the letter "o" in KosovO: http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/politics/2007/06/10/malveaux.bush.albania.visit.cnn&wm=11
"Where was Princip UK, Kate or the others from 1981 to 1999 when serbs were hunting albanians in Kosovo like rabbits? Why didn't exist that time a single serb saying: stop it, we should talk to each other, forget the past, build a future in peace etc etc? (Mikel, Monday, 11 June, 2007, 12:33)"
Mikel, I can understand your anger and your frustration, but isn't it a little insulting to come onto B92 itself and claim not one single Serb did anything to help you, when the staff of B92 put their very lives on the line in order to bring the truth to the Serbian people about what was going on. Why can't you acknowledge that some Serbs were true heroes and stood up against Milosevic? There were in fact many of us that did not agree with what was going on. Many Serbs did in fact give their lives opposing Milosevic. Do you even know what B92 went through during the time period in which you discuss?
I'll turn the question around and ask where were you in 2004 when Albanians were hunting Serbs?
Mathew, it was not just MILOSEVIC. Serbs try to blame him for everything, like it was just that guy with a great knife walking through the streets of Kosovo and killing everybody, meanwhile the innocent and peaceful serbs didnt have a clue of what that maniac was doing. The truth, actually is bitter: It was all the serbs backing him. I dont know of how B92 acted. From what I googled I learned that B92 was an independent radio channel which stood for the opposition interests within Serbia. That's all I know. Sorry again if I am missing facts. And respect for what they did, if they were able to raise against the common way of thinking around there and if they showed the other side of the story.
All I know is that except of Natasa Kandic, I never, never saw a single serb sayin "sorry" for what their army, police and fellow chetniks, (komits, sokole, or whatever you call them) from Kosovo did to albanians. Everybody was so proud to see how the "terrorists" were being smashed by the glorious Serbia. And everybody was convinced that the only guys in Kosovo seeking freedom were a bunch of islamic, dirty, longbirded, primitive terrorists. The truth is totally different. IT WAS ALL OF ALBANIANS. 2 millions. And I am impressed to see how serbs here try to count also other minorities of Kosovo as serb supporters. Actually, go and ask turks, croats, bosnians or even roma, what they think about Kosovo's independence. Except of serbs, everybody agrees: Kosovo deserves independence.
As for your last question, asking me where I was when albanians were hunting serbs the answer is: I was in Germany, because the serb army burned down my home in Gjakova, because the serb police ravaged my "butique".
Best regards.
Hi Jovan!
With your third or fourth comment you just confirmed not only nervosnes but even panic too!
Dont vorry we are gonna live side by side each on its own!
I was trapped in Belgrade during the war. I was a student there. You right. Some Serbian News Agencies were reporting the attrocities. It had no effect. 98. If B92 was anti-Miloshevic, they can still be. How about sanctioning Princip's Miloshevic's type comments, and definetly banning Jovan's arrogant and racist comments.
I would like a response of this from editors of B92.
The world community is coming to realise that there was NO genocide. it was perpetrated by the west (evil clinton) to serve their own agenda's. they employed the wanting and ignorant kla, which they trained, but the show is being exposed. like a cheap magic act. typical usa policy. send in the cia, make some trouble, train the local rebels, help create disaster, justify your presence, come in and be chief. i hate the way my country does business. i am ashamed of them (politicos).
am sorry but you do not know what are you talking about and your writing shows a lot your background. Kosova is part of Albanian nation, the oldest nation living in this trouble side which is called Balkan.The oldest churches in Kosova are Albanian churches because we did belong before you in Christianity and the archeological side show our anciently and civilization since in Homeric and Pelasgic time.
Serb politicians must understand that Kosovo is not going to go back under Serbia again! They are trying to blame it to the US, Ahtisari, etc., but the province and hopes for a peaceful living under Serbia were shattered like glass by Serb leadership in the first place.
Can you put together a shattered piece of glass?
Also, all former-communist Balkan countries are eager to become EU and NATO members. What this means is no boundaries and economic development. So, as much as upsetting the word independence is for the Serbia, Kosovo and Serbia will still be neighbors and in the long run both countries have to put behind them the past and think about a better future.
If Albania is Mother to you and all Kosovar Albanians then what are you doing in Serbia? Are you in Serbia illegally? Do you have a Serbian citizenship card or passport? Can you prove that you are in the country legally, if you can't you should be deported at once! That is what the Americans would do with Mexican illegals and even Canadien Illegals.
10000 Albanian civilian were killed only during the last conflict hundred thousands were force to leave, Kosova is NOT yours anymore, if you want to be good neibourgh in the future you should feel sorry and appologise to Albanian nation, still masive grave are foumd in serbia
If you don't know the history how do you think you can talk about the future, and I talk with facts, and most importantly is what happens behind the camera, President Bush knows Albanian history better than any foreigner and june 10th he said it wright. By the way none of albanians in Kosovo carry serbian passaports or any ID whatsoever because they are not worth it, in fact they are invalid since the end of the war 1999. It's time to celebrate the newest country in the world or country number 193.
First and foremost, I am truly sorry for what you and your people suffered. I'm a Western Born Serb, so it is easier for me to be objective about such things. My wife is from Krajina, so I do understand how brutal the Balkans can be at times, and no one should suffer as your people did, regardless of their ethnicity.
If you're interested, I suggest you read "Guerilla Radio" by Matthew Collin, its all about B92 and what they went through during the Milosevic era. It might change some of your opinions on Serbs. We are not one unified block, and we disagree as much as any people.
As far as the Roma of Kosovo go, although I have no direct experience with that, I have seen Albanian posters here on B92 refer to Roma families in Kosovo as "Serbs" in a very negative context accusing them of crimes, at least the Serbian speaking Roma families, so I'm not convinced that they were not targeted by some sectors of Albanian society, but that's not really important…
You know, as far as the average Serb goes, I think its all very similar to the US in many regards. Somewhere around 50% of the American population believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the 9/11 Terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. Its more a matter of education and such, and not that all Serbs agreed with the harsh policies meted out towards your people.
So, personally, I support partition as I do believe your people should live as they wish. I do believe our churches represent the cradle of our civilization, so I would support granting Presevo Independence as well in exchange for some important concessions in regards to our cultural sites. I also believe that since the average Serb from Kosovo is just about as likely as the average Albanian to be counted among the dead, cleansed and missing that our population deserves to live under Serb rule. I'm not trying to belittle what you suffered, which was state sponsered terrorism, plain and simple, but the fact is the ratio of Serb victims to Albanian victims is roughly 1 to 10 mirroring the population. Doesn't matter to me the why, how, or when, just that both our people suffer when we are in the minority position, so maybe its better for us to go our separate ways for now.
As far as sanctioning Princip or Jovan, I think all ideas should be heard, even if to expose them as false. Jovan and I have disagreed with in the past, as well as other Serbs here. PB for example told me recently if I were Orthodox, he was a Martian. As far as Princip goes, I've never seen him make up numbers or use racist slurs. I've even seen him apologize for the crimes suffered by the Albanians. I think he's a decent guy and to be honest, I don't really understand why what he says upsets people so much? His vision seems to be one of living together in harmony, as naïve as I personally believe that to be, I am and always will be a Yugophile, so I actually agree with his vision, despite the fact that I don't think its really practical. If anyone should be censored, it should be Ahmet's lies that Serbs drowned those two boys in the river that started the 2004 riots, this is clearly incitement to violence, it is actually a very very dangerous thing to say, people lost their lives as a result of these "rumors". Or possibly maybe Victor for libeling the Serbian nation as a whole with his made up numbers and actrocities motivated by hate and xenophobia. Although as I've stated before, in a way in this format it’s a positive thing to correct such disinformation as spouts from Victors mouth. Most of it is a repetition of early propaganda against Serbs that has been disproven later, such as 100,000 women raped in Bosnia, or 250,000 killed. Both numbers Victor still claims as true.
As far as Bush goes, the far right in the US has always been against the bombing of Serbia, so I'm not sure just how deep Bush's comittment to Kosovo really is. In fact, to be honest, as a Serb, if the democrats come to power, you will most certainly have stronger support from the US. So far all I've seen Bush do is make a comment or two, and then promptly forget exactly what it was that he said, which is very typical of Bush. So for those of you who think the Serbs are just stalling, I want you to know, that stalling really isn't in the best interest of the Serbs. Right now we actually have one of the most sypathetic regimes in power in the US, and we should focus on that.
Kosovars are getting independency because of people like you. From this forum everybody can see that Albanians were right on their intentions and goals...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way...
The prospect of giving Kosovo to the Albanians post NATO war was always on the table with Clinton, in fact he wanted to do that but psycho President Milosevic would have none of it! In fact he refused to pull his troops from Kosovo unless there was assurances that Kosovo shall remain Serbian. And Clinton knew he could not bomb Serbia for much longer and that there would have to be a ground invasion of Serbia unless Milosevic gave up, there was no way NATO wanted to fight the Serbs on the ground, if they had it would have been much worse then what is going on in Iraq now, so Clinton made sure that in resolution 1244 it clearly stated that Kosovo remain Serbian.
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