G8 leaders to discuss Kosovo

Now we wait the results from Bush-Putin talks (to find out what Russia ask from EU and USA). Russia is playing dirty games on Serb. They will approve this resolution.

Crunch time is coming. As I've said before, and been slated for saying and accused of being a 'Serb' (I can think of worse things to be called, and anyway I'm not tall enough!), I don't believe that independence will be agreed in a UN Resolution. And if it's declared without a resolution there will be violence and mayhem.
There are international troops on the ground under the UN umbrella. These troops are charged with backing up any agreements by the UN, so if it's not approved then they will have to fight against any moves taken towards independence.
Does anyone here really think that even if the US and EU recognise independence (unlikely) they will go against the official UN line? Would the US have its troops fight for one thing while the UN is supporting another (territorial integrity)?
Especially with the further ramifications for other areas of Southern Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia etc.
Time for real talks to begin and a compromise has to be reached. Ultimately, this is still legally Serbia's territory and they are not, and should not, be obliged to give it up.
There has to either be some sort of autonomy or a partition.

seems that mr. putin is a real statesman sticking to his principles against all odds and even against an american cowboy and war president.

Putin is an autocrat. He is basically a Russian version of Milosevic. I know he is currently of the Serbian side, but you have to realise this is only for his short term personal gain. He doesn't actually care about Serbia. As soon as he gets what he wants he will drop Serbia. His only principle is himself.

I don't get all the praise of Russia and Putin. He has ade his country an autocratic state which is slowly sliding towards fascism. Why praise that and criticise the west, which (for watever its faults) is free and prosperous, and genuinely wants to spread freedom and prosperity.

I am sure that the G8 leaders are more of a hindrance than a solution to the Kosovo Issue. G8 leaders need to put their own homes in order before they start telling Serbs and Albanians how to be good neighbors. I am sure that most people that post here are either good or bad neighbors. It all depends on the circumstances. Some of you are bad neighbors because of how you were brought up and it is natural for you to be bad as it is for me to be good since I was brought up to respect my neighbors. The only way for Serbs and Albanians to be good neighbors is to get rid of the leaders who lie to you while garbing all the wealth for them and in the process impoverishing you and then telling you it’s your neighbor’s fault. If all of you had a chance to make a decent living even if that decent living was provided by a political leader be he Serbian or Albanian it would not matter to you. As long as you choose your leaders on the basis of religion or ethnicity and not on the basis of ability you will never be a partner in the good things in life. Good things in life will only come when you become a partner in what your society produces no matter if you live in Albania or Serbia.
I don’t believe that any of you would care if you lived in the Roman Empire or the Russian Empire if your life was easy. It is only when people are hungry and unable to make a living and unable to feed and educate their children that they look at jumping the fence just like my cow did when I was a child because the grass was greener in my neighbor’s garden. People don’t rebel and kill others or become criminals or separate if conditions for a good life exist. It is of paramount importance to change the conditions that impoverishes you. If you have too many children to feed use birth control, if you are uneducated get more education, if you are not paid well organize with your fellow workers, a union will make you strong. These are all hard things to do.

In the 1920’s a hard working black man living beside a lazy white man in Mississippi purchased a mule. The next day the mule was dead. The neighbor who practices all the things and is well off will not be jealous of a neighbor who purchased a mule in order to better himself but may even help that neighbor because he is happy in his own home so he will not covet his neighbor’s home. The man who are criminals in Kosovo or Serbia have found a way to get out of their misery by creating wealth for themselves while spreading misery to those who want to get out of the miserable life that they live so they do the only thing that they know will feed their family.
. The only way to cure the miserable conditions in Kosovo is to create a society based on equality not ethnicity. In fact the best thing that people in the Balkans could have done was to shoot the first politician who drew borders and said this is Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Montenegro, and Greece and so on. There should be no nation states since they create division and wars. If we create one world with one human race no one would terrorize their neighbor. Nation states and nationalism as well as religion are a disease and a blot on human nature and civilization and wars and killing is the evidence of that.
Many of you who post here have that disease and you caught it from your leaders who preach democracy and practice nationalism with their hand in your pocket.. Your leaders are a blot upon civilization, but you are equally to blame because you refuse to examine the cause and effect of world events and believe that terrorism, war, and hate as a panacea for the miserable conditions in which your children live. Your leaders tell you this and they also tell you there is no other way which is nonsense. You are the victims of their greed. The only option you have is to continue on this road of hate and war or create a society where economic democracy is as important as political democracy. The only way to cure this hate is to give the people a chance to live, feed and educate their children without fear that their neighbor is going to harm them.

Are you albanians reading the same article as I am?? Its amazing how most of you make up these assumptions that have nothing to do with whats written in the articles! the Russians will veto and your dreams of independence are over!!!

Who is commenting? Kate, only Ratko and Jovan can match her.

Your comment is full of contradictions. First you say Kosovo solution should be found by UN. I just wonder if you know who asked Ahtisaari to write proposal about Kosovo status. It was UN Security Council.

Have you read the Serbian constitution? It says autonomy can be revoked by the Serbian parliament, where ultranationalists have majority.

But yes you have made many improvements since you started writing here. In the beginning you denied everything and after facing the facts have began to acknowledge the crimes Serbs committed against Albanians. But you have still a lot to learn. It seems like you try to understand the complicated issues before learning the basic facts; remember step by step.

PS: Just wonder why you don't move to Moscow since you are such a sympathiser of Russian foreign policy.

PEACE

The UN will soon vote on the resolution and if Russia decides to veto then the Kosovo Albanians will most likely give more time to the US diplomats to try and find a way to convince Russia.

If Russia is not convinced that independence is the only reasonable solution within a certain ammount of time then the Kosovo Albanians (hopefully with US and EU support) will declare independence and effectively take control of Kosovo.

This will in turn lead to Serbia placing its security forces north of Mitrovica and in response to that the southern Serb enclaves will have to leave, leading to uncontrolled and violent partition.

16,000 NATO forces will not risk their lives and try to stop something their countries in fact SUPPORT, which is independence for Kosovo.

Serbia will not rule Kosovo and Kosovo will not be part of Serbia in any way shape or form. That is promise to you.

Federal Unit, Autonomy, Broad Autonomy, Cultural Autonomy, Dictatorship, Police State, War.

We have been through your notion of "Autonomy" in all its forms and shapes and history shows us that Serbia does not respect the rights of other ethnic groups nor does it respect any legal or moral obligation towards is citizens.

Have you ever stopped for a moment and asked yourself a simple question "Why dont the Albanians want to live with us?"

Open your eyes and think about the people who suffered under your kings, dictators and leaders for decades, and do not think of them as Albanians, Croats or Bosnians but as human beeings.

My dear friend Obiliq

Yes, I am reading the same article as you are. and I believe that Russia is not doing any favour to Serbia and Serbian people at all.
You seem to be happy if the status of Kosova is not solved is it? I believe that you don not realize that this will harm Serbs living in Kosova and Serbia proper not only Albanians. What makes you think that minorities(Serb, Turks, Bosnians, Roma, Ashkali etc) in Independent Kosova would not have a proper human treatment. I would suggest you do not take the Serbian authorities as your comparing point. In Kosova we do respect rights of every person no matter what nationality are they. To prove my point you can read about the standards before status implementation if you know what I am talking about.

Dear friends, we have a unique opportunity to build something new in Kosova/Balkans as we have the support of most of the planet except Russia. I believe that these opportunities will not come very often to all of us. If we behave like we did in the past(building our future on someone else’s tragedy) than this opportunity will go and we will remain living like in middle ages.

Posters in this site I believe that are not written form the people living in Kosova or Serbia but from people living abroad who do not understand a thing about the situation on the ground

Dear friends, I think we should use the opportunity to exchange the views for a better future of Kosova and Serbia and not insult each other or event worst, insult the family members that have lost their loved ones.

PEACE

Watt a You people talking about ? I em in the US the is noting on the news about Kosovo or Kosova receiving independence You people a dreaming.

Obilic,
Some Serbs took me for an Albanian. I never met one. I just have this profond sense of justice and I feel since the nineties that the Kosovars - after all those terribles sufferings - should get their independence. They are entitled to it!! Putin, this Russian Milosevic can delay it but will not be able to prevent it. So if I would be a Serb I would restrain myself of being arrogant or cocky and wait for the final result.

Joe it seems to me that you have been educated very well from watching CNN and BBC.

Nick: there is a simple reason why a part of the k-albanians is so fanatic in the status-question. and if you stop kidding yourself, you will admit that it is the truth.

first of all, they are young, most k-albanians are about their twenties, most of them have no job, so, they are easily mislead youths. other, more mature Albanians, know very well that the most important thing is to bring the own family through the daily life. they would also live in an autonomous province, but they cannot say it freely, since they would put their life and their families lives in danger.
so much for democratic standards in Kosmet at the present time.

those who write here belong to the first group mentioned, even though they won´t admit it, as they deny everything that proves them wrong.

second: it´s in the interest of foreign-powers to have some vassals, or to create a vassal state in the balkans, and the Albanians were always willing to be vassals, thats why they had so many privileges in the ottoman time.

there´s no UN-resolution this week, and, the sound watcher will know why.
only ignorants STILL believe in the Russians to bend down, or "waiting for the price".

ridiculous.

"Watt" "a" "em" "noting"

This is not a rep concert. Please refrain from using slang.

i have stated many times that promises will remain as promises. in march the tune is to have UN resolution in April when the Brits are the chair, but didnt happen. next was to be MAy when the US chaired the UN which became MAYDAY. now is june when G8 is happening. is there any card left?

now that we have nicks promise of guaranteed independence all you need not worry any more because his high sources in Kremlin have told him straight up.

Joe
since you are a sympathizer then here is an article for you.

http://www.counterpunch.org/johnstone06022007.html

Its by another sympathizer who is a little wiser and a little better informed. That is if your support is not based on purely Islam or other possible factors like having a wife or neighbours from there.

What happens if there is no independence by the end of the G8 summit? The albanians are going to attack the UN forces again? Or the helpless enclaves that still live in the south? Smart move on their part.

Its quite ironic how some poeple (serbian origin) that post on this website, criticise US and UK, their politicians and their democracies, while praising Russia as the only 'democratic' country in the world whose aim is to preserve 'justice' and 'international law' etc etc., but they themselves are living in UK or USA.

If mother Russia is so great and UK and USA so bad,then why don't you move to Russia and live in 'true democracy'? where:

- people are free to express their views (political, sexuality etc.) - as long as its same as Putins cause other wise they get shot (that reporter) or beaten up on the street by Putins youth!

- politicians are allowed to oppose the goverment - if they are willing to risk getting arrested or poisoned!

- where ethnic minorities rights are respected - unless of course you are a 5 year old Tajik girl, because then you are in danger of getting stabbed to death by racist gangs that will never get prosecuted.

- where the Russian goverment respects its neighbours - as we saw recently with Estonia.

etc etc.

Princip is expect soon you'll leave your nickname as 'Princip, Russia'

Hope B92 publishes this.

nikshala:

" - where ethnic minorities rights are respected - unless of course you are a 5 year old Tajik girl, because then you are in danger of getting stabbed to death by racist gangs that will never get prosecuted. "

my question to you is: how many albanian criminals who have burned down churches, behaeaded serbian monks, or have beaten up even american civilians in Kosovo, have been brought to justice?

you won´t start a discussion about russian democracy, while in your own "society" no non-albanian can live in peace!?

It always makes me laugh when the Albanian posters on this site denigrate countries that don't agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on this site recently include Russia, Slovakia, Indonesia and Ghana to name but a few.

Ratko,
You are wrong again. I never watch CNN and BBC. In reality I get my informations from different internet sites in English, French and German (sorry nothing from the Russian media).

Jovan,

You are mistaken and your comment shows exactly how little information you have about Kosovo and the people living in it.

Your arguement that older people are not as interested in independence and freedom is ridiculous. The older generations are just as keen (if not more) to get rid of Serbia once and for all, after having lived under Serbian repression and persection for most of their lives. Please do not pretend to know anything about the various groups of Kosovar society. Attempting to create such divisions betwen old and young quite frankly makes you appear younger than most people here.

I share an office with a couple of people older than 50, and they are more keen in getting independence than most youths i know. They have been through many "broad autonomies" and what they want now if for their children to be free of Serbia.

Furthermore, our youth have no jobs because of YOU. YOU were the ones that ruined our economy, closed our schools and fired hundreds of thousands of people replacing them with Serbs. YOU Sir are guilty for the decades lost in the economy and education.

You may argue that Serbia does not wish to administer Kosovo again and that it only wants to maintain its "territorial integrity". This combination has always resulted in trouble in the Ballkans. We all saw how easily a person like Milosevic could take our "broad autonomy" away.

the fact that my last comment wasnt posted is ridiculous. Im just going to stop supporting this website, because...well i'll keep my reasons to myself!

Cvele,
So you give me the link to an obscure little newsletter with Serbian connection. Ridiculous.
it is even more ridiculous when you wright that "what happens when there is no independence at the end of the summit". Nobody said ever that this summit will decide it but it will be at the UN or simply an unilateral declaration.

Jack

"It always makes me laugh when the Albanian posters on this site denigrate countries that don't agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on this site recently include Russia, Slovakia, Indonesia and Ghana to name but a few."

It always makes me laugh when the Serbian posters on this site denigrate countries that agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on these posts recently are UK, USA, Germany, Albanian, Macedonia to name but a few.

Its even funnier since many of those Serbs posting here live in those countries that they are ridiculing. Move to Russia!!!

Joe
Well your comment clearly states you haven't read the article. Since its an American living in Paris that wrote it based on facts. Your opinion is completely biased and now its clear for everyone to see.

As for unilateral independence - Not even US is dumb enough to allow that to happen. Why would they push Europe towards East. Effectively cutting themselves off from the rest of the world.

All that will happen is partition in the end. Followed by RS succesion from BH and a high possibility of the democratic SRS coming to power in Serbia. Which would push it towards East making Europe very upset with the US for causing another Balkan conflict.

i think it is too late to give Kosovo an independence. Russia is back on its feet, and we Americans have more important things to care about.

Cvele,
Your comments reflect the strange mind-set of an SRS "democrat". If an average American living in Paris write something favorable about Serbs his writing is immediately "based on facts".
If I would write from Paris about the same subject you would say I am biased.
What I find real funny: you over estimate the inportance of little Serbia of 7,5 million inhabitants so much for Europe. You try to make believe that it has the importance of a Spain or Poland (both about 40 millions). And please don't tell me that with Kosovo it is 9,5 millions.

Jovan,

Beheading monks?

Perhaps you need to stop watching the History Channels series of "Barbarians" Jovan, its dangerous to pay too much attention to those kind of things. This is not the 15th century and you have no proff whatsoever for what you claim.

Burning churches?

What about the hundreds of mosques burned? Such as the the 500 year old Mosque of Hadum in Gjakova or the Mosques in the villages of Nagavc, Kruse e Vogel and many hundreds of others? Have you actualy seen a burned church? or are you speculating from what you read in www.kosovo.com?

Is a church more holy than a mosque?

Beating up american ciizens?

Where is your proff. I have met many americans in Kosovo and most of them have told me its safer for them to walk in the night in Prishtina then it is to walk in Washington. We are enourmously grateful to the Americans for what they have done for us and beating of even insulting an american citizen in Kosovo is something that will make you a lot of enemies.

I ask that B92 post my comment in its entirety if possible but i will understand if it is censored.

And i would like to thank the B92 mods and staff for allowing everyone in these forums to express themselves.

You are indead a beacon of reason and equality, qualities which most Serb politicans do not have and which has harmed and will contiue to harm Serbia in the future.

Nik: this is the type of Russia they would be moving to: "Demonstrators shout slogans as they rally in Russia's southern city of Stavropol June 5, 2007. Hundreds of locals rallied in the town of Stavropol in southern Russia on Tuesday, demanding the eviction of ethnic Chechens, witnesses and media said, reviving memories of racial riots in other parts of the country." (Reuters, June 7, 2007). Now I am starting to understand why Russia supports Serbia so much. Both places have so much in common, they want the land, but not the people, and both governments are filled with Ultra Nationalists.

nikshala, actually my plan is to move to Kosovo! Not Russia. I'm Serbian, so why not live in my own country. Thats the way i look at it. See you soon my friend. Cannot wait to finally be back HOME.

I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children); I've seen a lot of serbs blame him for having lost this war.
This war was lost and Yougoslavia , undeservedly, destroyed. Kosovo was lost as a result of a war. For which reason the Kosovo Albanians would like to live under serbs? They never had a chance to live WITH the serbs during the last 100 years of occupation.

an agreement to 6 months of talks between Belgrade and Pristina have been reached at the G8 summit. Maybe in 2008 you will get independence. Maybe... NOT!

Nick:

you´re rapidly loosing credibility here...

not only is it wrong what you say, I can only assume the reason why you are posting something that is not true, but you also make the mistake to judge over me, since I am one of the few posters here, who do not use racist, or natinalistic rhetorics, in contrast to most of the albanian posters here.
do not care about my age, I am old enough to know what I am writing about.

Albanian schools were not closed by order, truth is, Albanians boycotted them, and built up a shadow-society, that´s a fact that is known in western circles ( and I know what I am talking about, ´cause during my studies I had acces to sources that clearly approved that, and those sources were everything but serbian.
so, don´t try to mislead here, it´s an useless attempt, not more.

of course there are some fanatics of older age...but you know very well that there is another albanian society, that cannot speak out freely what it thinks.

even in regard to the illyrian-myth I once wrote a really long comment, even with albanian sources, if you are the Nick I was corresponding with then you only had the quite simple answer "simply not true". that was all you could write.

it seems like I know more than you are ready to admit.

Serbia has absolute right under international law to hold onto its sovereign territory and Russian President Vladimir Putin as does Serbia's Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica know this.
Any action of independence for Kosovo and Metohija can be normally and logically viewed as a precedent for other ethnic minority groups.
Ethnic Albanians are a minority group in Serbia and at most can be given autonomy.
Autonomy is what G8 leaders should be discussing for Serbia's province and return of refugees and human rights for Serbs who have been living under threats from Albanian warlords.
What should be discussed at G8 summit is that President George Bush has a one-sided view and seeks only to support the ethnic Albanians in Serbia's province leaving the Serbian citizens vulnerable, especially the SOC with its duty to protect and comfort its faithful. Many in the EU are parroting his phrases.
On the other hand Russia's President Vladimir Putin continues to look for dialogue from both sides, Belgrade and Pristina, and also to work for a solution for the ethnic Albanians and the Serbs living in Kosovo and Metohija.
Serbia and its diaspora ask for respect for what is its medieval and spiritual territory and identity.
The UN entered into Serbia's province to keep it multi-ethnic. Why is Kosovo and Metohija 90% ethnic Albanian today, and where is it's multi-ethnicity?

Multi-ethnicity, unemployment, return of refugees and solutions for improved relations must be discussed at the G8 summit and not independence for an ethnic group!!!

Jovan,

1. What i write here has nothing to do with my credibility. I am not here to promote myself and i could not care less what you think of my credibility.

2. What you read I have lived. I was at school when the Serbian spreyed the clasrooms of my school with poision and our parents came to get us, terrified at the prospect of lossing their children. But of course this sounds so terrifying that it cant be true right? I have no reason to lie Jovan, the truth of what happened to the Kosovo Albanians is more terrifying than anything i could make up.

During the Milosevic regime the primary schools were mostly not closed. The secondary schools had 2 choices, accept the Curriculum from Belgrade which promoted Serbian nationalism and was aimed at teaching our children the heroic acts of people like Rankovic, Milosevic and other murderous individuals who contributed so much in repressing and violating the rights of Kosovo Albanians.

Of course we didnt accept your curriculum and instead of compromising or doing what most civilised countries do (respect the rights of minorities) Milosevic kicked us out and so started studying what we though would benefit us in private houses and other improvised schools.

There would be no reason for us to protest or boycot if our rights werent beeing violated, but of course you do not understand that.

3. I am not the Nick you talk to about the Illyrians.

population means nothing. Mexico has 120 mil and look how useless it is. Its all about positioning (EU) and about natural resources (US). Which you have to agree that Serbia incl. Kosovo have in abundance. I just wonder now if that there is no independence... will they still keep those statues of BILL AND BLAIR or will they get mad and cover them with a blanket.

Well obviously Belgrade feels that school is important. :)

"I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children) (Gjon Cima, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 22:43)"
Well, now you have. I hate Milosevic, not just for selling out the Serbs and ruining them economically, but for the suffering he brought to everyone in the former Yugoslavia. I do strongly believe he had a very willing partner in Tudjman in the mass atrocities which made them both rich and powerful. Had not nationalists torn apart YU, we would all be in the EU now. What a waste of human life on all sides, and absolutely pointless and unnecessary.
"Is a church more holy than a mosque? (Nick, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 20:41)"
Nick, first and foremost, I hold deep respect for your religion, and I was lucky enough to have visited the mosque in Belgrade during Ramadan before it was destroyed in retaliation for the 2004 riots in Kosovo (which didn't make sense to me since it wasn't an Albanian mosque).
However, it isn't about it being a Church per se, its about what it represents to Serbs, which is the very cradle and foundation of our civilization and identity itself. The Greeks hold their ancient temples in high esteem and that has NOTHING to do with worshiping pagan Gods, its because it represents the very cradle and foundation of their civilization. In addition, since religion determines whether someone is a Bosniak, Croatian or a Serbian, religion plays a very different role for us then it does for Albanians, so its probably a difficult concept for outsiders to truly understand.
"I was at school when the Serbian spreyed the clasrooms of my school with poision and our parents came to get us, terrified at the prospect of lossing their children. But of course this sounds so terrifying that it cant be true right?"
I heard rumors about Serbs poisoning the food supply etc. in the schools. Do you have any real evidence for this? Is it possible it was just a rumor, like Serbs drowning those two Albanian children that set off the 2004 riots? I'm just curious if you know for sure 100% it was in fact poison. I believe you that you believed you were being poisoned, I'm just wondering if maybe it was a misunderstanding or something?
I'm not going to comment about the schools or language or jobs or anything like that, since in all honesty, I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I do know similar things happened to Serbs in Croatia, so I imagine those things could very well be true.
Personally, I feel a lot of the arguments that go on here are pretty much irrelevant. Does it really matter whether Albanians are Illyrians or not? No, in my mind, that really doesn't effect the situation one way or the other.
Yes, Serbs did some things for which we should be ashamed of, but does that mean that Kosovo is not dearly important to our national identity? No, of course not.
What we need to focus on is how to we satisfy the needs of the Albanians to feel safe and secure in how they live without it destroying Serbian culture or endangering our people.

I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children) (Gjon Cima, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 22:43)"

Have you ever heard of OTPOR?

Now we wait the results from Bush-Putin talks (to find out what Russia ask from EU and USA). Russia is playing dirty games on Serb. They will approve this resolution.

Crunch time is coming. As I've said before, and been slated for saying and accused of being a 'Serb' (I can think of worse things to be called, and anyway I'm not tall enough!), I don't believe that independence will be agreed in a UN Resolution. And if it's declared without a resolution there will be violence and mayhem.
There are international troops on the ground under the UN umbrella. These troops are charged with backing up any agreements by the UN, so if it's not approved then they will have to fight against any moves taken towards independence.
Does anyone here really think that even if the US and EU recognise independence (unlikely) they will go against the official UN line? Would the US have its troops fight for one thing while the UN is supporting another (territorial integrity)?
Especially with the further ramifications for other areas of Southern Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia etc.
Time for real talks to begin and a compromise has to be reached. Ultimately, this is still legally Serbia's territory and they are not, and should not, be obliged to give it up.
There has to either be some sort of autonomy or a partition.

seems that mr. putin is a real statesman sticking to his principles against all odds and even against an american cowboy and war president.

Putin is an autocrat. He is basically a Russian version of Milosevic. I know he is currently of the Serbian side, but you have to realise this is only for his short term personal gain. He doesn't actually care about Serbia. As soon as he gets what he wants he will drop Serbia. His only principle is himself.

I don't get all the praise of Russia and Putin. He has ade his country an autocratic state which is slowly sliding towards fascism. Why praise that and criticise the west, which (for watever its faults) is free and prosperous, and genuinely wants to spread freedom and prosperity.

I am sure that the G8 leaders are more of a hindrance than a solution to the Kosovo Issue. G8 leaders need to put their own homes in order before they start telling Serbs and Albanians how to be good neighbors. I am sure that most people that post here are either good or bad neighbors. It all depends on the circumstances. Some of you are bad neighbors because of how you were brought up and it is natural for you to be bad as it is for me to be good since I was brought up to respect my neighbors. The only way for Serbs and Albanians to be good neighbors is to get rid of the leaders who lie to you while garbing all the wealth for them and in the process impoverishing you and then telling you it’s your neighbor’s fault. If all of you had a chance to make a decent living even if that decent living was provided by a political leader be he Serbian or Albanian it would not matter to you. As long as you choose your leaders on the basis of religion or ethnicity and not on the basis of ability you will never be a partner in the good things in life. Good things in life will only come when you become a partner in what your society produces no matter if you live in Albania or Serbia.
I don’t believe that any of you would care if you lived in the Roman Empire or the Russian Empire if your life was easy. It is only when people are hungry and unable to make a living and unable to feed and educate their children that they look at jumping the fence just like my cow did when I was a child because the grass was greener in my neighbor’s garden. People don’t rebel and kill others or become criminals or separate if conditions for a good life exist. It is of paramount importance to change the conditions that impoverishes you. If you have too many children to feed use birth control, if you are uneducated get more education, if you are not paid well organize with your fellow workers, a union will make you strong. These are all hard things to do.

In the 1920’s a hard working black man living beside a lazy white man in Mississippi purchased a mule. The next day the mule was dead. The neighbor who practices all the things and is well off will not be jealous of a neighbor who purchased a mule in order to better himself but may even help that neighbor because he is happy in his own home so he will not covet his neighbor’s home. The man who are criminals in Kosovo or Serbia have found a way to get out of their misery by creating wealth for themselves while spreading misery to those who want to get out of the miserable life that they live so they do the only thing that they know will feed their family.
. The only way to cure the miserable conditions in Kosovo is to create a society based on equality not ethnicity. In fact the best thing that people in the Balkans could have done was to shoot the first politician who drew borders and said this is Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Montenegro, and Greece and so on. There should be no nation states since they create division and wars. If we create one world with one human race no one would terrorize their neighbor. Nation states and nationalism as well as religion are a disease and a blot on human nature and civilization and wars and killing is the evidence of that.
Many of you who post here have that disease and you caught it from your leaders who preach democracy and practice nationalism with their hand in your pocket.. Your leaders are a blot upon civilization, but you are equally to blame because you refuse to examine the cause and effect of world events and believe that terrorism, war, and hate as a panacea for the miserable conditions in which your children live. Your leaders tell you this and they also tell you there is no other way which is nonsense. You are the victims of their greed. The only option you have is to continue on this road of hate and war or create a society where economic democracy is as important as political democracy. The only way to cure this hate is to give the people a chance to live, feed and educate their children without fear that their neighbor is going to harm them.

Are you albanians reading the same article as I am?? Its amazing how most of you make up these assumptions that have nothing to do with whats written in the articles! the Russians will veto and your dreams of independence are over!!!

Who is commenting? Kate, only Ratko and Jovan can match her.

Your comment is full of contradictions. First you say Kosovo solution should be found by UN. I just wonder if you know who asked Ahtisaari to write proposal about Kosovo status. It was UN Security Council.

Have you read the Serbian constitution? It says autonomy can be revoked by the Serbian parliament, where ultranationalists have majority.

But yes you have made many improvements since you started writing here. In the beginning you denied everything and after facing the facts have began to acknowledge the crimes Serbs committed against Albanians. But you have still a lot to learn. It seems like you try to understand the complicated issues before learning the basic facts; remember step by step.

PS: Just wonder why you don't move to Moscow since you are such a sympathiser of Russian foreign policy.

PEACE

The UN will soon vote on the resolution and if Russia decides to veto then the Kosovo Albanians will most likely give more time to the US diplomats to try and find a way to convince Russia.

If Russia is not convinced that independence is the only reasonable solution within a certain ammount of time then the Kosovo Albanians (hopefully with US and EU support) will declare independence and effectively take control of Kosovo.

This will in turn lead to Serbia placing its security forces north of Mitrovica and in response to that the southern Serb enclaves will have to leave, leading to uncontrolled and violent partition.

16,000 NATO forces will not risk their lives and try to stop something their countries in fact SUPPORT, which is independence for Kosovo.

Serbia will not rule Kosovo and Kosovo will not be part of Serbia in any way shape or form. That is promise to you.

Federal Unit, Autonomy, Broad Autonomy, Cultural Autonomy, Dictatorship, Police State, War.

We have been through your notion of "Autonomy" in all its forms and shapes and history shows us that Serbia does not respect the rights of other ethnic groups nor does it respect any legal or moral obligation towards is citizens.

Have you ever stopped for a moment and asked yourself a simple question "Why dont the Albanians want to live with us?"

Open your eyes and think about the people who suffered under your kings, dictators and leaders for decades, and do not think of them as Albanians, Croats or Bosnians but as human beeings.

My dear friend Obiliq

Yes, I am reading the same article as you are. and I believe that Russia is not doing any favour to Serbia and Serbian people at all.
You seem to be happy if the status of Kosova is not solved is it? I believe that you don not realize that this will harm Serbs living in Kosova and Serbia proper not only Albanians. What makes you think that minorities(Serb, Turks, Bosnians, Roma, Ashkali etc) in Independent Kosova would not have a proper human treatment. I would suggest you do not take the Serbian authorities as your comparing point. In Kosova we do respect rights of every person no matter what nationality are they. To prove my point you can read about the standards before status implementation if you know what I am talking about.

Dear friends, we have a unique opportunity to build something new in Kosova/Balkans as we have the support of most of the planet except Russia. I believe that these opportunities will not come very often to all of us. If we behave like we did in the past(building our future on someone else’s tragedy) than this opportunity will go and we will remain living like in middle ages.

Posters in this site I believe that are not written form the people living in Kosova or Serbia but from people living abroad who do not understand a thing about the situation on the ground

Dear friends, I think we should use the opportunity to exchange the views for a better future of Kosova and Serbia and not insult each other or event worst, insult the family members that have lost their loved ones.

PEACE

Watt a You people talking about ? I em in the US the is noting on the news about Kosovo or Kosova receiving independence You people a dreaming.

Obilic,
Some Serbs took me for an Albanian. I never met one. I just have this profond sense of justice and I feel since the nineties that the Kosovars - after all those terribles sufferings - should get their independence. They are entitled to it!! Putin, this Russian Milosevic can delay it but will not be able to prevent it. So if I would be a Serb I would restrain myself of being arrogant or cocky and wait for the final result.

Joe it seems to me that you have been educated very well from watching CNN and BBC.

Nick: there is a simple reason why a part of the k-albanians is so fanatic in the status-question. and if you stop kidding yourself, you will admit that it is the truth.

first of all, they are young, most k-albanians are about their twenties, most of them have no job, so, they are easily mislead youths. other, more mature Albanians, know very well that the most important thing is to bring the own family through the daily life. they would also live in an autonomous province, but they cannot say it freely, since they would put their life and their families lives in danger.
so much for democratic standards in Kosmet at the present time.

those who write here belong to the first group mentioned, even though they won´t admit it, as they deny everything that proves them wrong.

second: it´s in the interest of foreign-powers to have some vassals, or to create a vassal state in the balkans, and the Albanians were always willing to be vassals, thats why they had so many privileges in the ottoman time.

there´s no UN-resolution this week, and, the sound watcher will know why.
only ignorants STILL believe in the Russians to bend down, or "waiting for the price".

ridiculous.

"Watt" "a" "em" "noting"

This is not a rep concert. Please refrain from using slang.

i have stated many times that promises will remain as promises. in march the tune is to have UN resolution in April when the Brits are the chair, but didnt happen. next was to be MAy when the US chaired the UN which became MAYDAY. now is june when G8 is happening. is there any card left?

now that we have nicks promise of guaranteed independence all you need not worry any more because his high sources in Kremlin have told him straight up.

Joe
since you are a sympathizer then here is an article for you.

http://www.counterpunch.org/johnstone06022007.html

Its by another sympathizer who is a little wiser and a little better informed. That is if your support is not based on purely Islam or other possible factors like having a wife or neighbours from there.

What happens if there is no independence by the end of the G8 summit? The albanians are going to attack the UN forces again? Or the helpless enclaves that still live in the south? Smart move on their part.

Its quite ironic how some poeple (serbian origin) that post on this website, criticise US and UK, their politicians and their democracies, while praising Russia as the only 'democratic' country in the world whose aim is to preserve 'justice' and 'international law' etc etc., but they themselves are living in UK or USA.

If mother Russia is so great and UK and USA so bad,then why don't you move to Russia and live in 'true democracy'? where:

- people are free to express their views (political, sexuality etc.) - as long as its same as Putins cause other wise they get shot (that reporter) or beaten up on the street by Putins youth!

- politicians are allowed to oppose the goverment - if they are willing to risk getting arrested or poisoned!

- where ethnic minorities rights are respected - unless of course you are a 5 year old Tajik girl, because then you are in danger of getting stabbed to death by racist gangs that will never get prosecuted.

- where the Russian goverment respects its neighbours - as we saw recently with Estonia.

etc etc.

Princip is expect soon you'll leave your nickname as 'Princip, Russia'

Hope B92 publishes this.

nikshala:

" - where ethnic minorities rights are respected - unless of course you are a 5 year old Tajik girl, because then you are in danger of getting stabbed to death by racist gangs that will never get prosecuted. "

my question to you is: how many albanian criminals who have burned down churches, behaeaded serbian monks, or have beaten up even american civilians in Kosovo, have been brought to justice?

you won´t start a discussion about russian democracy, while in your own "society" no non-albanian can live in peace!?

It always makes me laugh when the Albanian posters on this site denigrate countries that don't agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on this site recently include Russia, Slovakia, Indonesia and Ghana to name but a few.

Ratko,
You are wrong again. I never watch CNN and BBC. In reality I get my informations from different internet sites in English, French and German (sorry nothing from the Russian media).

Jovan,

You are mistaken and your comment shows exactly how little information you have about Kosovo and the people living in it.

Your arguement that older people are not as interested in independence and freedom is ridiculous. The older generations are just as keen (if not more) to get rid of Serbia once and for all, after having lived under Serbian repression and persection for most of their lives. Please do not pretend to know anything about the various groups of Kosovar society. Attempting to create such divisions betwen old and young quite frankly makes you appear younger than most people here.

I share an office with a couple of people older than 50, and they are more keen in getting independence than most youths i know. They have been through many "broad autonomies" and what they want now if for their children to be free of Serbia.

Furthermore, our youth have no jobs because of YOU. YOU were the ones that ruined our economy, closed our schools and fired hundreds of thousands of people replacing them with Serbs. YOU Sir are guilty for the decades lost in the economy and education.

You may argue that Serbia does not wish to administer Kosovo again and that it only wants to maintain its "territorial integrity". This combination has always resulted in trouble in the Ballkans. We all saw how easily a person like Milosevic could take our "broad autonomy" away.

the fact that my last comment wasnt posted is ridiculous. Im just going to stop supporting this website, because...well i'll keep my reasons to myself!

Cvele,
So you give me the link to an obscure little newsletter with Serbian connection. Ridiculous.
it is even more ridiculous when you wright that "what happens when there is no independence at the end of the summit". Nobody said ever that this summit will decide it but it will be at the UN or simply an unilateral declaration.

Jack

"It always makes me laugh when the Albanian posters on this site denigrate countries that don't agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on this site recently include Russia, Slovakia, Indonesia and Ghana to name but a few."

It always makes me laugh when the Serbian posters on this site denigrate countries that agree with independence. Countries that have been insulted on these posts recently are UK, USA, Germany, Albanian, Macedonia to name but a few.

Its even funnier since many of those Serbs posting here live in those countries that they are ridiculing. Move to Russia!!!

Joe
Well your comment clearly states you haven't read the article. Since its an American living in Paris that wrote it based on facts. Your opinion is completely biased and now its clear for everyone to see.

As for unilateral independence - Not even US is dumb enough to allow that to happen. Why would they push Europe towards East. Effectively cutting themselves off from the rest of the world.

All that will happen is partition in the end. Followed by RS succesion from BH and a high possibility of the democratic SRS coming to power in Serbia. Which would push it towards East making Europe very upset with the US for causing another Balkan conflict.

i think it is too late to give Kosovo an independence. Russia is back on its feet, and we Americans have more important things to care about.

Cvele,
Your comments reflect the strange mind-set of an SRS "democrat". If an average American living in Paris write something favorable about Serbs his writing is immediately "based on facts".
If I would write from Paris about the same subject you would say I am biased.
What I find real funny: you over estimate the inportance of little Serbia of 7,5 million inhabitants so much for Europe. You try to make believe that it has the importance of a Spain or Poland (both about 40 millions). And please don't tell me that with Kosovo it is 9,5 millions.

Jovan,

Beheading monks?

Perhaps you need to stop watching the History Channels series of "Barbarians" Jovan, its dangerous to pay too much attention to those kind of things. This is not the 15th century and you have no proff whatsoever for what you claim.

Burning churches?

What about the hundreds of mosques burned? Such as the the 500 year old Mosque of Hadum in Gjakova or the Mosques in the villages of Nagavc, Kruse e Vogel and many hundreds of others? Have you actualy seen a burned church? or are you speculating from what you read in www.kosovo.com?

Is a church more holy than a mosque?

Beating up american ciizens?

Where is your proff. I have met many americans in Kosovo and most of them have told me its safer for them to walk in the night in Prishtina then it is to walk in Washington. We are enourmously grateful to the Americans for what they have done for us and beating of even insulting an american citizen in Kosovo is something that will make you a lot of enemies.

I ask that B92 post my comment in its entirety if possible but i will understand if it is censored.

And i would like to thank the B92 mods and staff for allowing everyone in these forums to express themselves.

You are indead a beacon of reason and equality, qualities which most Serb politicans do not have and which has harmed and will contiue to harm Serbia in the future.

Nik: this is the type of Russia they would be moving to: "Demonstrators shout slogans as they rally in Russia's southern city of Stavropol June 5, 2007. Hundreds of locals rallied in the town of Stavropol in southern Russia on Tuesday, demanding the eviction of ethnic Chechens, witnesses and media said, reviving memories of racial riots in other parts of the country." (Reuters, June 7, 2007). Now I am starting to understand why Russia supports Serbia so much. Both places have so much in common, they want the land, but not the people, and both governments are filled with Ultra Nationalists.

nikshala, actually my plan is to move to Kosovo! Not Russia. I'm Serbian, so why not live in my own country. Thats the way i look at it. See you soon my friend. Cannot wait to finally be back HOME.

I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children); I've seen a lot of serbs blame him for having lost this war.
This war was lost and Yougoslavia , undeservedly, destroyed. Kosovo was lost as a result of a war. For which reason the Kosovo Albanians would like to live under serbs? They never had a chance to live WITH the serbs during the last 100 years of occupation.

an agreement to 6 months of talks between Belgrade and Pristina have been reached at the G8 summit. Maybe in 2008 you will get independence. Maybe... NOT!

Nick:

you´re rapidly loosing credibility here...

not only is it wrong what you say, I can only assume the reason why you are posting something that is not true, but you also make the mistake to judge over me, since I am one of the few posters here, who do not use racist, or natinalistic rhetorics, in contrast to most of the albanian posters here.
do not care about my age, I am old enough to know what I am writing about.

Albanian schools were not closed by order, truth is, Albanians boycotted them, and built up a shadow-society, that´s a fact that is known in western circles ( and I know what I am talking about, ´cause during my studies I had acces to sources that clearly approved that, and those sources were everything but serbian.
so, don´t try to mislead here, it´s an useless attempt, not more.

of course there are some fanatics of older age...but you know very well that there is another albanian society, that cannot speak out freely what it thinks.

even in regard to the illyrian-myth I once wrote a really long comment, even with albanian sources, if you are the Nick I was corresponding with then you only had the quite simple answer "simply not true". that was all you could write.

it seems like I know more than you are ready to admit.

Serbia has absolute right under international law to hold onto its sovereign territory and Russian President Vladimir Putin as does Serbia's Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica know this.
Any action of independence for Kosovo and Metohija can be normally and logically viewed as a precedent for other ethnic minority groups.
Ethnic Albanians are a minority group in Serbia and at most can be given autonomy.
Autonomy is what G8 leaders should be discussing for Serbia's province and return of refugees and human rights for Serbs who have been living under threats from Albanian warlords.
What should be discussed at G8 summit is that President George Bush has a one-sided view and seeks only to support the ethnic Albanians in Serbia's province leaving the Serbian citizens vulnerable, especially the SOC with its duty to protect and comfort its faithful. Many in the EU are parroting his phrases.
On the other hand Russia's President Vladimir Putin continues to look for dialogue from both sides, Belgrade and Pristina, and also to work for a solution for the ethnic Albanians and the Serbs living in Kosovo and Metohija.
Serbia and its diaspora ask for respect for what is its medieval and spiritual territory and identity.
The UN entered into Serbia's province to keep it multi-ethnic. Why is Kosovo and Metohija 90% ethnic Albanian today, and where is it's multi-ethnicity?

Multi-ethnicity, unemployment, return of refugees and solutions for improved relations must be discussed at the G8 summit and not independence for an ethnic group!!!

Jovan,

1. What i write here has nothing to do with my credibility. I am not here to promote myself and i could not care less what you think of my credibility.

2. What you read I have lived. I was at school when the Serbian spreyed the clasrooms of my school with poision and our parents came to get us, terrified at the prospect of lossing their children. But of course this sounds so terrifying that it cant be true right? I have no reason to lie Jovan, the truth of what happened to the Kosovo Albanians is more terrifying than anything i could make up.

During the Milosevic regime the primary schools were mostly not closed. The secondary schools had 2 choices, accept the Curriculum from Belgrade which promoted Serbian nationalism and was aimed at teaching our children the heroic acts of people like Rankovic, Milosevic and other murderous individuals who contributed so much in repressing and violating the rights of Kosovo Albanians.

Of course we didnt accept your curriculum and instead of compromising or doing what most civilised countries do (respect the rights of minorities) Milosevic kicked us out and so started studying what we though would benefit us in private houses and other improvised schools.

There would be no reason for us to protest or boycot if our rights werent beeing violated, but of course you do not understand that.

3. I am not the Nick you talk to about the Illyrians.

population means nothing. Mexico has 120 mil and look how useless it is. Its all about positioning (EU) and about natural resources (US). Which you have to agree that Serbia incl. Kosovo have in abundance. I just wonder now if that there is no independence... will they still keep those statues of BILL AND BLAIR or will they get mad and cover them with a blanket.

Well obviously Belgrade feels that school is important. :)

"I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children) (Gjon Cima, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 22:43)"
Well, now you have. I hate Milosevic, not just for selling out the Serbs and ruining them economically, but for the suffering he brought to everyone in the former Yugoslavia. I do strongly believe he had a very willing partner in Tudjman in the mass atrocities which made them both rich and powerful. Had not nationalists torn apart YU, we would all be in the EU now. What a waste of human life on all sides, and absolutely pointless and unnecessary.
"Is a church more holy than a mosque? (Nick, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 20:41)"
Nick, first and foremost, I hold deep respect for your religion, and I was lucky enough to have visited the mosque in Belgrade during Ramadan before it was destroyed in retaliation for the 2004 riots in Kosovo (which didn't make sense to me since it wasn't an Albanian mosque).
However, it isn't about it being a Church per se, its about what it represents to Serbs, which is the very cradle and foundation of our civilization and identity itself. The Greeks hold their ancient temples in high esteem and that has NOTHING to do with worshiping pagan Gods, its because it represents the very cradle and foundation of their civilization. In addition, since religion determines whether someone is a Bosniak, Croatian or a Serbian, religion plays a very different role for us then it does for Albanians, so its probably a difficult concept for outsiders to truly understand.
"I was at school when the Serbian spreyed the clasrooms of my school with poision and our parents came to get us, terrified at the prospect of lossing their children. But of course this sounds so terrifying that it cant be true right?"
I heard rumors about Serbs poisoning the food supply etc. in the schools. Do you have any real evidence for this? Is it possible it was just a rumor, like Serbs drowning those two Albanian children that set off the 2004 riots? I'm just curious if you know for sure 100% it was in fact poison. I believe you that you believed you were being poisoned, I'm just wondering if maybe it was a misunderstanding or something?
I'm not going to comment about the schools or language or jobs or anything like that, since in all honesty, I don't know enough about that to say one way or another. I do know similar things happened to Serbs in Croatia, so I imagine those things could very well be true.
Personally, I feel a lot of the arguments that go on here are pretty much irrelevant. Does it really matter whether Albanians are Illyrians or not? No, in my mind, that really doesn't effect the situation one way or the other.
Yes, Serbs did some things for which we should be ashamed of, but does that mean that Kosovo is not dearly important to our national identity? No, of course not.
What we need to focus on is how to we satisfy the needs of the Albanians to feel safe and secure in how they live without it destroying Serbian culture or endangering our people.

I'm an albanian and note one thing: i've never seen one only serb to balme Milosevic for having waged a war against Yougoslav citizen (Kosovo-most children) (Gjon Cima, Thursday, 7 June, 2007, 22:43)"

Have you ever heard of OTPOR?