Phillip, why looking for “reason” in the most unreasonable leader Serbia ever had? I, as well, am personally convinced that he killed himself but I am really not interested how he did it. Guess, future will tell.
Victor, the reports I heard were that he died due to a heart attack and no rifampicin was found in his body post mortem. He had to take his hypertension drugs in front of the guard everyday. It would have been very difficult to smuggle rifampicin into the detention centre. What you are alleging is nothing more than a fanciful conspiracy theory.
If he wanted to die why did he put up such a spirited defence?
General Tolimir has been sent to The hague and I wonder what Mladic thinks of that. He is the one who should be there to face justice. And I am reflecting on the kind of man Mladic is really. If he were a man, he would surrender to The Hague and face the music. Unfortunately, Mladic is a coward who was only strong with an uniform on; who was a brave man when he could give orders as a general. What a pity!
He is not man enough to end his own days and permit his nation, finally, to move on.
«Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition. »
YoU are right, Ida, they all remained in some unknown mass grave in Bosnia.
I tell no tale, my dear, I have worked with Bosnians and their children some 10 years ago, and they still have the same problem to cope with dreams and reality. A sound to loud reminds them of the shot theyr heard when they were 5 or 6 years.
It's a shame a man who defended Serbs is being tried by a kangaroo court run by the same people who are committing mass violations of international laws half-way around the world in Iraq and Afghanistan. All in order to justify their illegal war of aggression against Serbia. May this be the last Serb sent to the corrupt ICTY!
Milosevic smoked: that was one of the biggest contributions to his death. His smoking was self administered drug abuse that predated the Hague.
Smoking is a norm in Serbia and people seem to ignore its serious consequences. Mothers smoke while sitting next to their children - at the same time wanting the door shut because they worry about the draft!
To die from smoking is an 'auto goal' (own goal) - if you smoke, don't be suprised when you get ill from it and die.
Making petty attacks on the Hague sounds very weak - it is petty self justification.
The Hague was set up by the United Nations because of war crimes. The innocent and the guilty get a chance to make their case under very precise and fair legal process.
If I have any critism it is that there is not enough pressure from the international legal system to stop war crimes - e.g., Darfur.
"Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension."
The Bosnian war was over 11 1/2 years ago. The kids of the war with any memories would have to be teens. Therefore no small or young kids could you know who were living during the war.
I'm sure you are going on the TALES the people tell. It's their fibbing and exaggeration they are known for. Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition.
Some might have got a war injury - especially if they were soldiers - but signs of deliberate beating, scarring, cutting off of fingers, other mutilation as in the STORIES doesn't evince itself at all.
There aren't any deadlines.All deadlines ended years ago. What's been said is that the talks with the E.U. can resume when Belgrade shows it's co-operating with the Hague. With this arrest they have shown they did. Had they arrested Tolimir later, the talks would have resumed later. And Tolimir isn't exactly a small fish.
Milosovic might not have poisined himself, but he surely didn't help himself by keep on taking medicines he shouldn't have taken. It's nonense to say that Serb prisoners are being poisoned or something in The Hague. It's simply not in the tribunals interest to kill these people.
i dont care about the charges. They might as well pick up a man off the street and say he did this and that, I mean thats what Americans are all about anyways.
Just like on tv when they were showing grave sites that that supposedly Serbs killed Muslims and i remember the graves they showed were with crosses but on tv they were saying they were Muslim graves. So people like you Victor with no idea believed it because they dont know that Muslims don't have crosses on ther graves and that those graves sites were actually of Serbs that have been killed. So thats the kind of propaganda that you wonderful news sites spread
Thanks for the vote of confidence in Serbia James Lying;
"James Lyon, Balkans advisor at the International Crisis Group think tank, raised doubts about Serbia's real intentions, despite the arrest of Tolimir, indicted for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys.
"A lot of people think this is a one-off ploy," he said by telephone from Belgrade.
"The pattern that has been established is that Serbia does just enough to get SAA talks going and then it stops all cooperation with The Hague. There is reason to believe this is going to happen again.""
- interesting to see that the same James is a regular blogger on B92 and yet holds very diffrent views when he phones to pretend at being a "balkan advisor" - one wonders if anyone can have such a title!!! There is a certain contradiction in the terms one-off and one seeing a "pattern" - but then I guess "advisors" need to cover all eventualities!
«We have been informed that Tolimir has health problems.»
Living with such a weight on the conscience can cause mdedical problems, but I am sure that this is the source of his medical precarity. I will wait for the medical expertice on Tolimir's health!
Philip,
With Milosevic it was commun knowladge what happened.
He tought once more that he can outsmart everybody by tempering with his drug of hypertention. He started not to take it or just periodically to show that his hypertention is out of control. This way - as he requested it many times - he wanted to go to Russia for treatement. Once there he would take his medication again and naturelly never return to Hague. Nice plan except that the people in Hague were smarter than he thought. So your freind killed himself by miscalculation. He was not so smart after all!!
Look, I'm going to take Victor's side in this and say that the more Serb fugitives are found, arrested, and extradicted, the better it is for all of Serbia to move forward.
«Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition of the term enclave.»
I know! I just wanted to be sarcastic and a bit provocative!
As for Milosevic, you certainly heard the same reports as me, that he used counter-indicated medecines that his doctors did not want them to take! He killed himself, and I am sure he wanted to die! He was far from Mrs Markovic and life without her was not a life.
It seems to me that General Tolimir is somehow an HERO for you Viva. Just in case, here is the charges against your friend as it is established by the ICTY:
The Tribunal's indictment charges Tolimir, Assistant Commander for Intelligence and Security of the Main Staff of the Bosnian Serb Army (VRS), with responsibility for murdering more than 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys from Srebrenica in July 1995. The indictment also accuses him with making life unbearable for the civilian inhabitants of Srebrenica and Žepa and forcing them to leave the UN protected areas. Tolimir reported directly to the VRS Commander, Mladić.
Tolimir is charged, amongst other crimes, with involvement in the murder of Bosnian Muslim prisoners temporarily held in various locations in the towns of Bratunac and Potočari in eastern Bosnia. Among more than a dozen incidents of murder, the indictment alleges that Tolimir supervised the VRS detachment that summarily executed more than 1,700 Muslim men and boys at the Branjevo Military Farm and the Pilica Cultural Center. »
Victor, an enclave is a territory totally surrounded by another territory. An example is Lesotho being surrounded by South Africa. Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition.
Funny how any time a deadline approaches, Serbia seems to find out of the blue one of the small war criminals. But this game is coming to an end, because sooner or later the small ones will end, and they will be left out of cards to play. The EU should call the bluff now and state clearly that the condition for the resumption of talks is the arrest of Ratko Mladic, or that of Radovan Karadzic, and no one else. And the US should withold all financial and military aid until the couple are arrested, and then they should reject full membership of PFP, when the trial year expires. Only pressure and pressure and pressure can make Serbia behave. Kindness and encouragemente are totally wasted with this country.
Viva, these war criminals are better treated at The Hague that the treatment they inflicted to their victims. Believe me. Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension.
Besides Milosevic who poisoned himeself, and Deronjic who died from natural causes, who was posoned at The Hague?
General Tolimir who was on the run for the last 12 years has been arrested by the Serbian and RS Police forces, even though they knew all the time where he was, just as they know where Mladic is. Tolimir was number 3 in the triumvirat of the Srebrenica massacre. He is responsible of the ethnic cleansing of the enclaves of Srebrenica and Zepa, and the killing of all the males aged between 16 and 70.
I am glad with the victims who see this arrest as a positive step in the right direction, from the Serb authorities in Serbia and the little enclave of RS!
His health is weak. Well yeah send him to Hague where they will continue to poison him. Funny how every Serb that was sent to the Hague either died or is sick. Hmm I wonder why?
His health is weak. Well yeah send him to Hague where they will continue to poison him. Funny how every Serb that was sent to the Hague either died or is sick. Hmm I wonder why?
General Tolimir who was on the run for the last 12 years has been arrested by the Serbian and RS Police forces, even though they knew all the time where he was, just as they know where Mladic is. Tolimir was number 3 in the triumvirat of the Srebrenica massacre. He is responsible of the ethnic cleansing of the enclaves of Srebrenica and Zepa, and the killing of all the males aged between 16 and 70.
I am glad with the victims who see this arrest as a positive step in the right direction, from the Serb authorities in Serbia and the little enclave of RS!
Victor, an enclave is a territory totally surrounded by another territory. An example is Lesotho being surrounded by South Africa. Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition.
Viva, these war criminals are better treated at The Hague that the treatment they inflicted to their victims. Believe me. Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension.
Besides Milosevic who poisoned himeself, and Deronjic who died from natural causes, who was posoned at The Hague?
Funny how any time a deadline approaches, Serbia seems to find out of the blue one of the small war criminals. But this game is coming to an end, because sooner or later the small ones will end, and they will be left out of cards to play. The EU should call the bluff now and state clearly that the condition for the resumption of talks is the arrest of Ratko Mladic, or that of Radovan Karadzic, and no one else. And the US should withold all financial and military aid until the couple are arrested, and then they should reject full membership of PFP, when the trial year expires. Only pressure and pressure and pressure can make Serbia behave. Kindness and encouragemente are totally wasted with this country.
It seems to me that General Tolimir is somehow an HERO for you Viva. Just in case, here is the charges against your friend as it is established by the ICTY:
The Tribunal's indictment charges Tolimir, Assistant Commander for Intelligence and Security of the Main Staff of the Bosnian Serb Army (VRS), with responsibility for murdering more than 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys from Srebrenica in July 1995. The indictment also accuses him with making life unbearable for the civilian inhabitants of Srebrenica and Žepa and forcing them to leave the UN protected areas. Tolimir reported directly to the VRS Commander, Mladić.
Tolimir is charged, amongst other crimes, with involvement in the murder of Bosnian Muslim prisoners temporarily held in various locations in the towns of Bratunac and Potočari in eastern Bosnia. Among more than a dozen incidents of murder, the indictment alleges that Tolimir supervised the VRS detachment that summarily executed more than 1,700 Muslim men and boys at the Branjevo Military Farm and the Pilica Cultural Center. »
«Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition of the term enclave.»
I know! I just wanted to be sarcastic and a bit provocative!
As for Milosevic, you certainly heard the same reports as me, that he used counter-indicated medecines that his doctors did not want them to take! He killed himself, and I am sure he wanted to die! He was far from Mrs Markovic and life without her was not a life.
Philip,
With Milosevic it was commun knowladge what happened.
He tought once more that he can outsmart everybody by tempering with his drug of hypertention. He started not to take it or just periodically to show that his hypertention is out of control. This way - as he requested it many times - he wanted to go to Russia for treatement. Once there he would take his medication again and naturelly never return to Hague. Nice plan except that the people in Hague were smarter than he thought. So your freind killed himself by miscalculation. He was not so smart after all!!
Look, I'm going to take Victor's side in this and say that the more Serb fugitives are found, arrested, and extradicted, the better it is for all of Serbia to move forward.
«We have been informed that Tolimir has health problems.»
Living with such a weight on the conscience can cause mdedical problems, but I am sure that this is the source of his medical precarity. I will wait for the medical expertice on Tolimir's health!
Thanks for the vote of confidence in Serbia James Lying;
"James Lyon, Balkans advisor at the International Crisis Group think tank, raised doubts about Serbia's real intentions, despite the arrest of Tolimir, indicted for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys.
"A lot of people think this is a one-off ploy," he said by telephone from Belgrade.
"The pattern that has been established is that Serbia does just enough to get SAA talks going and then it stops all cooperation with The Hague. There is reason to believe this is going to happen again.""
- interesting to see that the same James is a regular blogger on B92 and yet holds very diffrent views when he phones to pretend at being a "balkan advisor" - one wonders if anyone can have such a title!!! There is a certain contradiction in the terms one-off and one seeing a "pattern" - but then I guess "advisors" need to cover all eventualities!
i dont care about the charges. They might as well pick up a man off the street and say he did this and that, I mean thats what Americans are all about anyways.
Just like on tv when they were showing grave sites that that supposedly Serbs killed Muslims and i remember the graves they showed were with crosses but on tv they were saying they were Muslim graves. So people like you Victor with no idea believed it because they dont know that Muslims don't have crosses on ther graves and that those graves sites were actually of Serbs that have been killed. So thats the kind of propaganda that you wonderful news sites spread
There aren't any deadlines.All deadlines ended years ago. What's been said is that the talks with the E.U. can resume when Belgrade shows it's co-operating with the Hague. With this arrest they have shown they did. Had they arrested Tolimir later, the talks would have resumed later. And Tolimir isn't exactly a small fish.
Milosovic might not have poisined himself, but he surely didn't help himself by keep on taking medicines he shouldn't have taken. It's nonense to say that Serb prisoners are being poisoned or something in The Hague. It's simply not in the tribunals interest to kill these people.
"Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension."
The Bosnian war was over 11 1/2 years ago. The kids of the war with any memories would have to be teens. Therefore no small or young kids could you know who were living during the war.
I'm sure you are going on the TALES the people tell. It's their fibbing and exaggeration they are known for. Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition.
Some might have got a war injury - especially if they were soldiers - but signs of deliberate beating, scarring, cutting off of fingers, other mutilation as in the STORIES doesn't evince itself at all.
Milosevic smoked: that was one of the biggest contributions to his death. His smoking was self administered drug abuse that predated the Hague.
Smoking is a norm in Serbia and people seem to ignore its serious consequences. Mothers smoke while sitting next to their children - at the same time wanting the door shut because they worry about the draft!
To die from smoking is an 'auto goal' (own goal) - if you smoke, don't be suprised when you get ill from it and die.
Making petty attacks on the Hague sounds very weak - it is petty self justification.
The Hague was set up by the United Nations because of war crimes. The innocent and the guilty get a chance to make their case under very precise and fair legal process.
If I have any critism it is that there is not enough pressure from the international legal system to stop war crimes - e.g., Darfur.
It's a shame a man who defended Serbs is being tried by a kangaroo court run by the same people who are committing mass violations of international laws half-way around the world in Iraq and Afghanistan. All in order to justify their illegal war of aggression against Serbia. May this be the last Serb sent to the corrupt ICTY!
«Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition. »
YoU are right, Ida, they all remained in some unknown mass grave in Bosnia.
I tell no tale, my dear, I have worked with Bosnians and their children some 10 years ago, and they still have the same problem to cope with dreams and reality. A sound to loud reminds them of the shot theyr heard when they were 5 or 6 years.
General Tolimir has been sent to The hague and I wonder what Mladic thinks of that. He is the one who should be there to face justice. And I am reflecting on the kind of man Mladic is really. If he were a man, he would surrender to The Hague and face the music. Unfortunately, Mladic is a coward who was only strong with an uniform on; who was a brave man when he could give orders as a general. What a pity!
He is not man enough to end his own days and permit his nation, finally, to move on.
Victor, the reports I heard were that he died due to a heart attack and no rifampicin was found in his body post mortem. He had to take his hypertension drugs in front of the guard everyday. It would have been very difficult to smuggle rifampicin into the detention centre. What you are alleging is nothing more than a fanciful conspiracy theory.
If he wanted to die why did he put up such a spirited defence?
Phillip, why looking for “reason” in the most unreasonable leader Serbia ever had? I, as well, am personally convinced that he killed himself but I am really not interested how he did it. Guess, future will tell.
His health is weak. Well yeah send him to Hague where they will continue to poison him. Funny how every Serb that was sent to the Hague either died or is sick. Hmm I wonder why?
General Tolimir who was on the run for the last 12 years has been arrested by the Serbian and RS Police forces, even though they knew all the time where he was, just as they know where Mladic is. Tolimir was number 3 in the triumvirat of the Srebrenica massacre. He is responsible of the ethnic cleansing of the enclaves of Srebrenica and Zepa, and the killing of all the males aged between 16 and 70.
I am glad with the victims who see this arrest as a positive step in the right direction, from the Serb authorities in Serbia and the little enclave of RS!
Victor, an enclave is a territory totally surrounded by another territory. An example is Lesotho being surrounded by South Africa. Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition.
Viva, these war criminals are better treated at The Hague that the treatment they inflicted to their victims. Believe me. Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension.
Besides Milosevic who poisoned himeself, and Deronjic who died from natural causes, who was posoned at The Hague?
Funny how any time a deadline approaches, Serbia seems to find out of the blue one of the small war criminals. But this game is coming to an end, because sooner or later the small ones will end, and they will be left out of cards to play. The EU should call the bluff now and state clearly that the condition for the resumption of talks is the arrest of Ratko Mladic, or that of Radovan Karadzic, and no one else. And the US should withold all financial and military aid until the couple are arrested, and then they should reject full membership of PFP, when the trial year expires. Only pressure and pressure and pressure can make Serbia behave. Kindness and encouragemente are totally wasted with this country.
It seems to me that General Tolimir is somehow an HERO for you Viva. Just in case, here is the charges against your friend as it is established by the ICTY:
The Tribunal's indictment charges Tolimir, Assistant Commander for Intelligence and Security of the Main Staff of the Bosnian Serb Army (VRS), with responsibility for murdering more than 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys from Srebrenica in July 1995. The indictment also accuses him with making life unbearable for the civilian inhabitants of Srebrenica and Žepa and forcing them to leave the UN protected areas. Tolimir reported directly to the VRS Commander, Mladić.
Tolimir is charged, amongst other crimes, with involvement in the murder of Bosnian Muslim prisoners temporarily held in various locations in the towns of Bratunac and Potočari in eastern Bosnia. Among more than a dozen incidents of murder, the indictment alleges that Tolimir supervised the VRS detachment that summarily executed more than 1,700 Muslim men and boys at the Branjevo Military Farm and the Pilica Cultural Center. »
«Obviously Republika Srpska doesn't fit the definition of the term enclave.»
I know! I just wanted to be sarcastic and a bit provocative!
As for Milosevic, you certainly heard the same reports as me, that he used counter-indicated medecines that his doctors did not want them to take! He killed himself, and I am sure he wanted to die! He was far from Mrs Markovic and life without her was not a life.
Philip,
With Milosevic it was commun knowladge what happened.
He tought once more that he can outsmart everybody by tempering with his drug of hypertention. He started not to take it or just periodically to show that his hypertention is out of control. This way - as he requested it many times - he wanted to go to Russia for treatement. Once there he would take his medication again and naturelly never return to Hague. Nice plan except that the people in Hague were smarter than he thought. So your freind killed himself by miscalculation. He was not so smart after all!!
Look, I'm going to take Victor's side in this and say that the more Serb fugitives are found, arrested, and extradicted, the better it is for all of Serbia to move forward.
«We have been informed that Tolimir has health problems.»
Living with such a weight on the conscience can cause mdedical problems, but I am sure that this is the source of his medical precarity. I will wait for the medical expertice on Tolimir's health!
Thanks for the vote of confidence in Serbia James Lying;
"James Lyon, Balkans advisor at the International Crisis Group think tank, raised doubts about Serbia's real intentions, despite the arrest of Tolimir, indicted for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys.
"A lot of people think this is a one-off ploy," he said by telephone from Belgrade.
"The pattern that has been established is that Serbia does just enough to get SAA talks going and then it stops all cooperation with The Hague. There is reason to believe this is going to happen again.""
- interesting to see that the same James is a regular blogger on B92 and yet holds very diffrent views when he phones to pretend at being a "balkan advisor" - one wonders if anyone can have such a title!!! There is a certain contradiction in the terms one-off and one seeing a "pattern" - but then I guess "advisors" need to cover all eventualities!
i dont care about the charges. They might as well pick up a man off the street and say he did this and that, I mean thats what Americans are all about anyways.
Just like on tv when they were showing grave sites that that supposedly Serbs killed Muslims and i remember the graves they showed were with crosses but on tv they were saying they were Muslim graves. So people like you Victor with no idea believed it because they dont know that Muslims don't have crosses on ther graves and that those graves sites were actually of Serbs that have been killed. So thats the kind of propaganda that you wonderful news sites spread
There aren't any deadlines.All deadlines ended years ago. What's been said is that the talks with the E.U. can resume when Belgrade shows it's co-operating with the Hague. With this arrest they have shown they did. Had they arrested Tolimir later, the talks would have resumed later. And Tolimir isn't exactly a small fish.
Milosovic might not have poisined himself, but he surely didn't help himself by keep on taking medicines he shouldn't have taken. It's nonense to say that Serb prisoners are being poisoned or something in The Hague. It's simply not in the tribunals interest to kill these people.
"Every day I work with kids and adult from Bosnia and what Tolimir and his alikes did to these kids are beyond comprehension."
The Bosnian war was over 11 1/2 years ago. The kids of the war with any memories would have to be teens. Therefore no small or young kids could you know who were living during the war.
I'm sure you are going on the TALES the people tell. It's their fibbing and exaggeration they are known for. Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition.
Some might have got a war injury - especially if they were soldiers - but signs of deliberate beating, scarring, cutting off of fingers, other mutilation as in the STORIES doesn't evince itself at all.
Milosevic smoked: that was one of the biggest contributions to his death. His smoking was self administered drug abuse that predated the Hague.
Smoking is a norm in Serbia and people seem to ignore its serious consequences. Mothers smoke while sitting next to their children - at the same time wanting the door shut because they worry about the draft!
To die from smoking is an 'auto goal' (own goal) - if you smoke, don't be suprised when you get ill from it and die.
Making petty attacks on the Hague sounds very weak - it is petty self justification.
The Hague was set up by the United Nations because of war crimes. The innocent and the guilty get a chance to make their case under very precise and fair legal process.
If I have any critism it is that there is not enough pressure from the international legal system to stop war crimes - e.g., Darfur.
It's a shame a man who defended Serbs is being tried by a kangaroo court run by the same people who are committing mass violations of international laws half-way around the world in Iraq and Afghanistan. All in order to justify their illegal war of aggression against Serbia. May this be the last Serb sent to the corrupt ICTY!
«Every Bosnian Muslim people seems to see in the U.S. or Canada is able-bodied with no signs of torture or malnutrition. »
YoU are right, Ida, they all remained in some unknown mass grave in Bosnia.
I tell no tale, my dear, I have worked with Bosnians and their children some 10 years ago, and they still have the same problem to cope with dreams and reality. A sound to loud reminds them of the shot theyr heard when they were 5 or 6 years.
General Tolimir has been sent to The hague and I wonder what Mladic thinks of that. He is the one who should be there to face justice. And I am reflecting on the kind of man Mladic is really. If he were a man, he would surrender to The Hague and face the music. Unfortunately, Mladic is a coward who was only strong with an uniform on; who was a brave man when he could give orders as a general. What a pity!
He is not man enough to end his own days and permit his nation, finally, to move on.
Victor, the reports I heard were that he died due to a heart attack and no rifampicin was found in his body post mortem. He had to take his hypertension drugs in front of the guard everyday. It would have been very difficult to smuggle rifampicin into the detention centre. What you are alleging is nothing more than a fanciful conspiracy theory.
If he wanted to die why did he put up such a spirited defence?
Phillip, why looking for “reason” in the most unreasonable leader Serbia ever had? I, as well, am personally convinced that he killed himself but I am really not interested how he did it. Guess, future will tell.
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