SPC bishop criticizes isolation

What the good bishop says is very poetical and very true at the same time, and I understand well why it took him so long to come up with such a statement. Even a few years ago, one had to be careful before making such an enunciation.

It is not good for the Serbs to be isolated from the rest of the world because of war criminals who have «tarnished the soul of the nation for generation.»

I would like to read the Serbs on this famous quote of Patriarch Pavle.

Hvala.

What a stark difference between the Serbian orthodox churchs words and actions in comparison to the catholic church who beatifies a known war criminal - Stepinac. the contrast is striking.

If Pope John Paul, a man of faith and holiness, beatified Cardinal Stepinac, I am sure it's because Cardinal Stepinac is also a Saint. Cardinal Stepinac had no choice to have discussions with Pavelic during the war, just as Patriarch Pavle had no choice to give Holy Communion to war criminals Karadzic and Mladic during Easter 1995.

As far as I am concerned, all religions are the same, and the Orthodox religion is not the one to throw a stone to others, as Christ himself told the people 2000 years ago!

Sigh....

Again Victor, for the umpteenth time: SHOW A PICTURE OF IT. You have a serious hangup over this fabricated issue. Don't lose your credibility by getting all into the WWII debate again.

Victor, the Pope beatifying a person does not make them a saint. i know it does to followers of Catholicism but to the rest of the world the Pope is not God's representative on earth. Only God decides who is or isn't a saint, not a mortal man.

Here Victor, I'll do it for you because you're just going to avoid the question again, like you have every other time.

To anyone else who cares about this, here is the picture of a SPC priest "distributing communion" and blessing paramilitary soldiers that Victor is so hung up on thinking it was the Patriarch:

http://www.gfbv.it/2c-stampa/2005/050607ortod.jpg

That is not Pavle. THIS is Pavle:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Patrijarh_Pavle.jpg

I know it's hard for a non-Orthodox like Victor to tell the difference because to him all Orthodox priests have long beards and black robes - not as clean cut as a proper civilized Catholic minister, but hopefully this should put his aching mind to rest. So to conclude this charade, in the informidable words of our dear friend, "As far as I am concerned, all religions are the same, and the Orthodox religion is not the one to throw a stone to other..." neither is the Catholic Church of Victor. If you're going to repeatedly make an argument my friend, at least make sure you have all your facts straight, especially since you seem to take such pride in your own intelligence and moral high ground.

The Catholic church has been involved in promoting and covering up sodomy and child abuse.

Altar boys, Catholic school boys and young parishoners were preyed on by the priests and monks for decades.

Now as adults they have had thousands of lawsuits and trials convicting the priests and monks of dirty deeds.

The Catholic leadership, including the popes covered up this and simply transferred the molester priests to a new diocese from which they'd prey on a new set of boys.

Mike, I do have the picture of your Pope, Patriarch Pavle giving Communion to the two war criminals! If I could, I would send it to you.

Ida, last year an orthodox priest was sent to jail for abusing an altar boy. I am sure that this has also been going around in your church for decades! As I told PB in my last comment, the Orthodox Church is not the one to throw a stone!

I personally have nothing against Catholica and I believe that everyone has a right to believe in what they choose however as a historian the Church has sanctified many inhumane pratices through the centuries: the selling of indulgences, the tithe tax, the inquisition, the crusades in which they killed many fellow christians, the 100 year war, the forcible conversions that occured during colonization of the New World through the WWII, the coverups around the world that has happened because molestations, the incubines, the harboring of WWII war criminals...etc. Whether they beatify someone or not has no relevance whether that person was involved in inhumane actions. The Church has a history of denial and cruelty.

All of this discussion reminds of the old wound that was initiated in 1054, when the Vatican and the Orthodoxy became two separated worlds.

But, as an agnostic, I’m prettey scared by this upsurge in the Orthodox-Slav nationalism that is happening nowadays in Serbia and Russia. Both feel "betrayed by History and their racial-religious enemies"

RELIGION

Is the biggest cause of wars throughout history.

Victor,
I would be very interested to know what kind of apologies or condemnations the Catholic Church has made in regards to the Ustashe genocide or Operation Storm. Certainly the Orthodox Church is light years ahead in acknowledging and apologizing for the crimes committed by those of their faith as even you are fond of quoting. So yeah Victor I do see a big difference in how the Orthodox Church handles these types of situations.
Stepinac was a convicted war criminal and approved of the forced conversions of Serbians into Catholic Croatians. Hardly the qualities of a Saint under anyone’s definition. The reality is the Catholic Church aided and abetted the Ustashe before, during and after they came to power. The reality is the Catholic Church is actively involved in covering up the crimes of their priests. Please see this recent CNN article on a Catholic Priest accused of murder.

“He said he was told by the head of the Assumption Abbey Monastery in Ava, Missouri, that Feit was a murderer and that it was his job to counsel him…
"I asked him one time, 'Why are you here and not in prison?' And he said, 'I was protected by the church authorities ...
Tachney said that after about six months of treatment, church authorities believed it was safe for Feit to leave the monastery in Missouri. “
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/29/tuchman.btsc/index.html
Of course last time I mentioned someone bringing a lawsuit against the Catholic Church Victor responded;
“Mr Levy is certainly a Jew who dislikes the Catholic Church and will try to defame the Pope and the Church. Mr Levy should try to find the reasons why Hitler decided in 1940 to 'cleanse' Europe of the presence of all Jews. “

«The Church has a history of denial and cruelty.»

lollee, I would suggest that instead of looking into the catholic religion history, have a look in what the Orthodox Church has done through history!

I agree though that the Catholic Church has initiated crimes that all catholics should be ahamed of, especially duuring the Crusades and the Inquisition.

Matthew, I would not answer you anymore because the past has shown that your not a mature individual enough to interact with you. You completely difform what I write, and your interpretation of what I say in fallacious!

You are a very poor representative of Serbia in America!

Victor, all I do is quote you. Maybe you ought to put more thought into how you express your arguments if you don't like how it sounds to the people reading them. I can not be liable for people not understanding your intent, as I said, all I do is quote you.

What the good bishop says is very poetical and very true at the same time, and I understand well why it took him so long to come up with such a statement. Even a few years ago, one had to be careful before making such an enunciation.

It is not good for the Serbs to be isolated from the rest of the world because of war criminals who have «tarnished the soul of the nation for generation.»

I would like to read the Serbs on this famous quote of Patriarch Pavle.

Hvala.

What a stark difference between the Serbian orthodox churchs words and actions in comparison to the catholic church who beatifies a known war criminal - Stepinac. the contrast is striking.

If Pope John Paul, a man of faith and holiness, beatified Cardinal Stepinac, I am sure it's because Cardinal Stepinac is also a Saint. Cardinal Stepinac had no choice to have discussions with Pavelic during the war, just as Patriarch Pavle had no choice to give Holy Communion to war criminals Karadzic and Mladic during Easter 1995.

As far as I am concerned, all religions are the same, and the Orthodox religion is not the one to throw a stone to others, as Christ himself told the people 2000 years ago!

Sigh....

Again Victor, for the umpteenth time: SHOW A PICTURE OF IT. You have a serious hangup over this fabricated issue. Don't lose your credibility by getting all into the WWII debate again.

Victor, the Pope beatifying a person does not make them a saint. i know it does to followers of Catholicism but to the rest of the world the Pope is not God's representative on earth. Only God decides who is or isn't a saint, not a mortal man.

Here Victor, I'll do it for you because you're just going to avoid the question again, like you have every other time.

To anyone else who cares about this, here is the picture of a SPC priest "distributing communion" and blessing paramilitary soldiers that Victor is so hung up on thinking it was the Patriarch:

http://www.gfbv.it/2c-stampa/2005/050607ortod.jpg

That is not Pavle. THIS is Pavle:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Patrijarh_Pavle.jpg

I know it's hard for a non-Orthodox like Victor to tell the difference because to him all Orthodox priests have long beards and black robes - not as clean cut as a proper civilized Catholic minister, but hopefully this should put his aching mind to rest. So to conclude this charade, in the informidable words of our dear friend, "As far as I am concerned, all religions are the same, and the Orthodox religion is not the one to throw a stone to other..." neither is the Catholic Church of Victor. If you're going to repeatedly make an argument my friend, at least make sure you have all your facts straight, especially since you seem to take such pride in your own intelligence and moral high ground.

The Catholic church has been involved in promoting and covering up sodomy and child abuse.

Altar boys, Catholic school boys and young parishoners were preyed on by the priests and monks for decades.

Now as adults they have had thousands of lawsuits and trials convicting the priests and monks of dirty deeds.

The Catholic leadership, including the popes covered up this and simply transferred the molester priests to a new diocese from which they'd prey on a new set of boys.

Mike, I do have the picture of your Pope, Patriarch Pavle giving Communion to the two war criminals! If I could, I would send it to you.

Ida, last year an orthodox priest was sent to jail for abusing an altar boy. I am sure that this has also been going around in your church for decades! As I told PB in my last comment, the Orthodox Church is not the one to throw a stone!

I personally have nothing against Catholica and I believe that everyone has a right to believe in what they choose however as a historian the Church has sanctified many inhumane pratices through the centuries: the selling of indulgences, the tithe tax, the inquisition, the crusades in which they killed many fellow christians, the 100 year war, the forcible conversions that occured during colonization of the New World through the WWII, the coverups around the world that has happened because molestations, the incubines, the harboring of WWII war criminals...etc. Whether they beatify someone or not has no relevance whether that person was involved in inhumane actions. The Church has a history of denial and cruelty.

All of this discussion reminds of the old wound that was initiated in 1054, when the Vatican and the Orthodoxy became two separated worlds.

But, as an agnostic, I’m prettey scared by this upsurge in the Orthodox-Slav nationalism that is happening nowadays in Serbia and Russia. Both feel "betrayed by History and their racial-religious enemies"

RELIGION

Is the biggest cause of wars throughout history.

Victor,
I would be very interested to know what kind of apologies or condemnations the Catholic Church has made in regards to the Ustashe genocide or Operation Storm. Certainly the Orthodox Church is light years ahead in acknowledging and apologizing for the crimes committed by those of their faith as even you are fond of quoting. So yeah Victor I do see a big difference in how the Orthodox Church handles these types of situations.
Stepinac was a convicted war criminal and approved of the forced conversions of Serbians into Catholic Croatians. Hardly the qualities of a Saint under anyone’s definition. The reality is the Catholic Church aided and abetted the Ustashe before, during and after they came to power. The reality is the Catholic Church is actively involved in covering up the crimes of their priests. Please see this recent CNN article on a Catholic Priest accused of murder.

“He said he was told by the head of the Assumption Abbey Monastery in Ava, Missouri, that Feit was a murderer and that it was his job to counsel him…
"I asked him one time, 'Why are you here and not in prison?' And he said, 'I was protected by the church authorities ...
Tachney said that after about six months of treatment, church authorities believed it was safe for Feit to leave the monastery in Missouri. “
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/29/tuchman.btsc/index.html
Of course last time I mentioned someone bringing a lawsuit against the Catholic Church Victor responded;
“Mr Levy is certainly a Jew who dislikes the Catholic Church and will try to defame the Pope and the Church. Mr Levy should try to find the reasons why Hitler decided in 1940 to 'cleanse' Europe of the presence of all Jews. “

«The Church has a history of denial and cruelty.»

lollee, I would suggest that instead of looking into the catholic religion history, have a look in what the Orthodox Church has done through history!

I agree though that the Catholic Church has initiated crimes that all catholics should be ahamed of, especially duuring the Crusades and the Inquisition.

Matthew, I would not answer you anymore because the past has shown that your not a mature individual enough to interact with you. You completely difform what I write, and your interpretation of what I say in fallacious!

You are a very poor representative of Serbia in America!

Victor, all I do is quote you. Maybe you ought to put more thought into how you express your arguments if you don't like how it sounds to the people reading them. I can not be liable for people not understanding your intent, as I said, all I do is quote you.