"Russia may veto UN Kosovo resolution"

USA and America aren't suprised by the Russia's position. The Russian theory of possible further "talks" and for a possible "compromise" between Serbia and Kosovar Albanians is just a pure speculation with the lovely words "talks" and "compromise" just to mislead the world "look we are for talks and compromise.....BUT only under Serbian soverignity" It is desperate attempt to sell to the West the soap for cheese. It is crystal clear that the Kosovar Albanians will never accept anything less than independence as it is for the Serbs,for the time being not agreeing with the Kosova independence. I am certain that the USA and Europe will continue to try to persuade Russia to come on board until "enough is enough" and stuff them. That would be a double humiliation for Russia and Serbia. Kosova independence will be recognised by most of the European countries despite the fact whether Russia likes it or not. Just wait and see!
Russia is to be blamed first for any potential instability in region.

I think it is a real shame that Kosovo is becoming a bargening chip between global powers who in reality have little interest in the actual situation and a much greater interest in their relationships with each other. I am neither supporting or arguing against the draft resolution merely pointing out that the UN should be forum for discussion of what best benefits Kosovo and Serbia, not the individual (suppossed) superpowers...

Tom,
wise words and I believe that it should be a solution that is formulated through genuine "negotiations" rather then the imposition of a one-sided plan that then becomes a battle of wills. But that is all the more reason that one should caution the US & UK haste and allow real and substantive talks to find a solution that will be acceptable to all and is win-win - that alternative must be found as all deserve peace, stability and economic development!

Neither the Rice talks nor the Samara meeting will bring any concrete steps to overcoming disagreements. In both cases, US/UK leaders are likely to encounter energy-rich Russia's increasingly combative stance and return home with little to show. They don't have a leg to stand on. They know it. Albanians need to grove up and start proper negotiations based on wide-ranging autonomy.

I think the kosova isue it's not just being used by Russia and Usa but from everybody,there are countries like Greece,Rumania and Slovakia claiming Kosova would be a precedent for other countries wich for somebody maybe true,but it isn't..the Kosova's history is diferent!
1st:every historian knows the part of Albania (today Kosova) was always Albanian.
2nd:Terror they went thru is fact why Kosova shouldn't live within Serbian rule,they just elected a radical as the head of their parliament,the party who is the most simpatized from Serbs is the radical party,what do u want to tell Kosovars ? wait until another milosevic get born in Serbian goverment and pas thru another terror and convince the opossing countries in favor of independence??? Serbians say we respect the democracy when the gave up Montenegro,Kosova is better case for indepence! over ninety percent of population are Albanians,over a million people were expelled from their homes,over 10.000 people were killed ( not to mention the others who are still missing ).I wish for a peaceful solution and for a agrement,Serbs know the bad part of independence declared from Kosovars without a resolution,if the Ahtisaris plans had some rights for Serbs it won't be any with an unilateral indepence and they only one to blame are themselfes and their mother Russia.

In view of most recent developments and what Ahtisari's plan contains, a Russian veto is a huge win for Albanians, even though they are afraid to contemplate the scenario. First of all, Kosovo will declare independence, to be recognized by the US and a few (likely not most at first) EU nations. That clearly establishes Kosovo on the same side of the battle with US and NATO as now US is obliged to keep the promise and wage War at Kosovo borders to protect the new state if necessary.

If that does not happen, a turmoil should re-emerge in the Ballkans, and Albanians are the likely ones to gain the most, with their compatriots unjustly divided in 4 other countries in the 19th century: Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia proper (i.e. Presheva region) and Greece (where Albanians are a huge number and a serious risk, despite dormant state.)

This will come at a huge cost to humanity and specifically the Balkans and Europe, as wars in this region are fought viscously and at great costs of lives and livelihood, but in the historic context it may bring about a lasting peace in Balkans: those of same nationalities will be incorporated under the same states. As backwards as the idea seems, before any kind of a union (as they may all go towards an EU union within a couple of decades) there need to be a clear establishment of identity and self rule. This has been the biggest flaw of World policy in the 20th century - believing that slaves can be created and tamed to accept a newly established status quo. For Albanians of Kosovo, that status quo started with Serbia's illegal annexation in 1912.

In view of most recent developments and what Ahtisari's plan contains, a Russian veto is a huge win for Albanians, even though they are afraid to contemplate the scenario. First of all, Kosovo will declare independence, to be recognized by the US and a few (likely not most at first) EU nations. That clearly establishes Kosovo on the same side of the battle with US and NATO as now US is obliged to keep the promise and wage War at Kosovo borders to protect the new state if necessary.

If that does not happen, a turmoil should re-emerge in the Ballkans, and Albanians are the likely ones to gain the most, with their compatriots unjustly divided in 4 other countries in the 19th century: Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia proper (i.e. Presheva region) and Greece (where Albanians are a huge number and a serious risk, despite dormant state.)

This will come at a huge cost to humanity and specifically the Balkans and Europe, as wars in this region are fought viscously and at great costs of lives and livelihood, but in the historic context it may bring about a lasting peace in Balkans: those of same nationalities will be incorporated under the same states. As backwards as the idea seems, before any kind of a union (as they may all go towards an EU union within a couple of decades) there need to be a clear establishment of identity and self rule. This has been the biggest flaw of World policy in the 20th century - believing that slaves can be created and tamed to accept a newly established status quo. For Albanians of Kosovo, that status quo started with Serbia's illegal annexation in 1912.

Arti, I think you make a fair point but is the removal of Nikolic and the resulting formation of governmentnot proof that Serbia now has moved forward enough that they will not go back. I agree if the radicals had managed to hold onto power or declare a state of emergency they would have been dark times for Kosovo and Serbia but they have now managed to find a solution in government which does not go down the radical path. Surely the massive international presence as well as the progression in domestic Serbian politics since Milosevic means that the threat of a repeat of widescale violence is very low?

“I do not have a crystal ball, but I do feel that Russia and the U.S. are headed towards a compromise on Kosovo’s sustainable future,” Judah argued.

This is what I've been saying all along on the subject! Russia "threatens" to veto, causing the US to change its tactics to avoid such an outcome and hold off unilateral recogniztion of a uinilaterally declared statelet. I totally agree with Judah in that neither side wants to do what it is threatening to do, so compromise, compromise, compromise is the key.

And for those of you who didn't get it the first time: COMPROMISE.

BB, are you kidding?? Even though I strongly support the independence of Kosovo I would never wish wars or other unrests. We are talking about human lives and human beings, not numbers of machines!!The war is never the solution!The states are made for the people and not viceversa (that is the main reason of my support on kosovo independence; it's the people's will). Let us all hope that all these jokes and strategies made by the international forces for their own interest could soon end and finally all the people in Balkans could begin a new era in peace and good neighborhood. Good day to you all from Albania.
P.S. Congratulations Serbia for the win in Eurovision song contest.

I predict the Russian veto for a long time. It will come like an "Amen" in a church. Kosovo however will become independent and - without the UN vote - the Serbs of Kosovo will be the losers and also Russia, humiliated for a second time.

It's quite simple, Standards before Status. That has to be the way. Ceku's promises mean nothing. Show through your actions, that you really are creating a multi-ethnic state. There are international laws that must be met. You cannot just desolve a UN resolution, just because it doesn't suit you. The West is, as always trying to get things their way, or no way. This will be interesting.

And if either side raises a rifle, NATO must make a convincing display of force.

International Law must be respected.
This is fundamental for everything.
Politics and lobbying must never over-ride international law and this is a fact, otherwise we will ALL live in chaotic times.

i am resurrecting my independence day contest for multi-ethnic kosovo/a. no fuss, no muss -- just choose a date and if you hit it you win a fabulous bottle of fine champagne, anywhere in the world! no losers here. the 2 dates taken so far: june 15th and july 11th. any takers out there? let's make this fun -- enough with the positioning and feuding, ok?? okay!

send all entries to robertoruss@yahoo.com

peace.

Well well there we go again with war and everything. And if you think the US will protect Kosovo has any interest in it, I think you should rethink your position. They have a huge mess in Irak and they got burned I doubt that they will come to your rescue if you threaten with war. Don't forget 1999 was before September 11th and since then state terror is persued by the US with a different eye and UCK terrorsim in Serbia was clear terrorism.

The will of the people must be respected: UN should organise a referendum asking kosovar people if they want to transform the de facto independence in legal independence.
Nobody should have the right to impose an external political choice.
Can somebody disagree on this?

to Patrick
Take care Patrick when you referee to UCK as terrorist:
1.It was a rebel army(small) that fought against the Serbian forces who killed children’s and women’s (male Albanian civilians for you means terrorists, so you don’t count them as innocent. Your standards are such). See Hague documents or at least the charges at the Belgrade trial for Serb police officials charged for Suhareka case on 1999.
2. Find any single case where Serb children’s where executed by UCK. There is no single case, non.
3. I understand you very good(if you are not Serb). There were international mercenaries who fought for the Serbs (due to their personal documents been found on their dead body or after been captured).
4. Most of Albanians believed that International community will protect us. They were wrong and they know that. I was one of them, but now days, we know that our life’s, family, homes, property primarily will be protected by ourselves.

Roberto the story is about Russian Veto - therefore there is NO independence. Of course ILLEGAL declarations can be made but resolution 1244 will stand and as such the UN will nullify such an ILLEGAL move and would dissolve the self governing administration if forced since it must uphold it's own resolutions. The US have been shown up for the false bluff of recognistion without UN resolution and if they do well I guess Abkhasia, Pridniester, South Ossetia, Nagorno Karabakh, Republika Srpska etc etc.. will have been given the green light by the US - maybe the US are ok with such a scenario?

But what of this ILLEGAL entity of Southern Kosovo & Metohija? I really think if this was to occur then the ethnic-Albaninas would look back on the last 8 years as an economic panacea - which is why I doubt any such declaration will ever happen!

One date I am sure on is the 6-8th June - the G8 summit when high on the agenda will be Kosovo & Metohija discussions for real "negotiations" - at which point Independence will be off any agenda!

Valdet i would not be so sure about the US protecting you, if you guys want to declare independence and demand you rights and pick up the gun then do so but no one has attacked you nor will they. But if you and the rest of folks beleive you can do as you wish then i afraid Val you find yourself on the outside looking in. It only takes one dummy to ruined it for everybody. Case in point Dubai, you cannot get a visa to enter the country because of couple of dumbasses trying to steal property. So just remember valdet it only takes a few to mess it up for a million.

massimo,

You said: The will of the people must be respected: UN should organise a referendum asking kosovar people if they want to transform the de facto independence in legal independence.
Nobody should have the right to impose an external political choice.

--

I agree with you but if you want to do this then the people of Serbia (over 8 Million) must be included in the vote. It would be interesting to see what the final numbers are.

USA and America aren't suprised by the Russia's position. The Russian theory of possible further "talks" and for a possible "compromise" between Serbia and Kosovar Albanians is just a pure speculation with the lovely words "talks" and "compromise" just to mislead the world "look we are for talks and compromise.....BUT only under Serbian soverignity" It is desperate attempt to sell to the West the soap for cheese. It is crystal clear that the Kosovar Albanians will never accept anything less than independence as it is for the Serbs,for the time being not agreeing with the Kosova independence. I am certain that the USA and Europe will continue to try to persuade Russia to come on board until "enough is enough" and stuff them. That would be a double humiliation for Russia and Serbia. Kosova independence will be recognised by most of the European countries despite the fact whether Russia likes it or not. Just wait and see!
Russia is to be blamed first for any potential instability in region.

I think it is a real shame that Kosovo is becoming a bargening chip between global powers who in reality have little interest in the actual situation and a much greater interest in their relationships with each other. I am neither supporting or arguing against the draft resolution merely pointing out that the UN should be forum for discussion of what best benefits Kosovo and Serbia, not the individual (suppossed) superpowers...

Tom,
wise words and I believe that it should be a solution that is formulated through genuine "negotiations" rather then the imposition of a one-sided plan that then becomes a battle of wills. But that is all the more reason that one should caution the US & UK haste and allow real and substantive talks to find a solution that will be acceptable to all and is win-win - that alternative must be found as all deserve peace, stability and economic development!

Neither the Rice talks nor the Samara meeting will bring any concrete steps to overcoming disagreements. In both cases, US/UK leaders are likely to encounter energy-rich Russia's increasingly combative stance and return home with little to show. They don't have a leg to stand on. They know it. Albanians need to grove up and start proper negotiations based on wide-ranging autonomy.

I think the kosova isue it's not just being used by Russia and Usa but from everybody,there are countries like Greece,Rumania and Slovakia claiming Kosova would be a precedent for other countries wich for somebody maybe true,but it isn't..the Kosova's history is diferent!
1st:every historian knows the part of Albania (today Kosova) was always Albanian.
2nd:Terror they went thru is fact why Kosova shouldn't live within Serbian rule,they just elected a radical as the head of their parliament,the party who is the most simpatized from Serbs is the radical party,what do u want to tell Kosovars ? wait until another milosevic get born in Serbian goverment and pas thru another terror and convince the opossing countries in favor of independence??? Serbians say we respect the democracy when the gave up Montenegro,Kosova is better case for indepence! over ninety percent of population are Albanians,over a million people were expelled from their homes,over 10.000 people were killed ( not to mention the others who are still missing ).I wish for a peaceful solution and for a agrement,Serbs know the bad part of independence declared from Kosovars without a resolution,if the Ahtisaris plans had some rights for Serbs it won't be any with an unilateral indepence and they only one to blame are themselfes and their mother Russia.

In view of most recent developments and what Ahtisari's plan contains, a Russian veto is a huge win for Albanians, even though they are afraid to contemplate the scenario. First of all, Kosovo will declare independence, to be recognized by the US and a few (likely not most at first) EU nations. That clearly establishes Kosovo on the same side of the battle with US and NATO as now US is obliged to keep the promise and wage War at Kosovo borders to protect the new state if necessary.

If that does not happen, a turmoil should re-emerge in the Ballkans, and Albanians are the likely ones to gain the most, with their compatriots unjustly divided in 4 other countries in the 19th century: Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia proper (i.e. Presheva region) and Greece (where Albanians are a huge number and a serious risk, despite dormant state.)

This will come at a huge cost to humanity and specifically the Balkans and Europe, as wars in this region are fought viscously and at great costs of lives and livelihood, but in the historic context it may bring about a lasting peace in Balkans: those of same nationalities will be incorporated under the same states. As backwards as the idea seems, before any kind of a union (as they may all go towards an EU union within a couple of decades) there need to be a clear establishment of identity and self rule. This has been the biggest flaw of World policy in the 20th century - believing that slaves can be created and tamed to accept a newly established status quo. For Albanians of Kosovo, that status quo started with Serbia's illegal annexation in 1912.

In view of most recent developments and what Ahtisari's plan contains, a Russian veto is a huge win for Albanians, even though they are afraid to contemplate the scenario. First of all, Kosovo will declare independence, to be recognized by the US and a few (likely not most at first) EU nations. That clearly establishes Kosovo on the same side of the battle with US and NATO as now US is obliged to keep the promise and wage War at Kosovo borders to protect the new state if necessary.

If that does not happen, a turmoil should re-emerge in the Ballkans, and Albanians are the likely ones to gain the most, with their compatriots unjustly divided in 4 other countries in the 19th century: Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia proper (i.e. Presheva region) and Greece (where Albanians are a huge number and a serious risk, despite dormant state.)

This will come at a huge cost to humanity and specifically the Balkans and Europe, as wars in this region are fought viscously and at great costs of lives and livelihood, but in the historic context it may bring about a lasting peace in Balkans: those of same nationalities will be incorporated under the same states. As backwards as the idea seems, before any kind of a union (as they may all go towards an EU union within a couple of decades) there need to be a clear establishment of identity and self rule. This has been the biggest flaw of World policy in the 20th century - believing that slaves can be created and tamed to accept a newly established status quo. For Albanians of Kosovo, that status quo started with Serbia's illegal annexation in 1912.

Arti, I think you make a fair point but is the removal of Nikolic and the resulting formation of governmentnot proof that Serbia now has moved forward enough that they will not go back. I agree if the radicals had managed to hold onto power or declare a state of emergency they would have been dark times for Kosovo and Serbia but they have now managed to find a solution in government which does not go down the radical path. Surely the massive international presence as well as the progression in domestic Serbian politics since Milosevic means that the threat of a repeat of widescale violence is very low?

“I do not have a crystal ball, but I do feel that Russia and the U.S. are headed towards a compromise on Kosovo’s sustainable future,” Judah argued.

This is what I've been saying all along on the subject! Russia "threatens" to veto, causing the US to change its tactics to avoid such an outcome and hold off unilateral recogniztion of a uinilaterally declared statelet. I totally agree with Judah in that neither side wants to do what it is threatening to do, so compromise, compromise, compromise is the key.

And for those of you who didn't get it the first time: COMPROMISE.

BB, are you kidding?? Even though I strongly support the independence of Kosovo I would never wish wars or other unrests. We are talking about human lives and human beings, not numbers of machines!!The war is never the solution!The states are made for the people and not viceversa (that is the main reason of my support on kosovo independence; it's the people's will). Let us all hope that all these jokes and strategies made by the international forces for their own interest could soon end and finally all the people in Balkans could begin a new era in peace and good neighborhood. Good day to you all from Albania.
P.S. Congratulations Serbia for the win in Eurovision song contest.

I predict the Russian veto for a long time. It will come like an "Amen" in a church. Kosovo however will become independent and - without the UN vote - the Serbs of Kosovo will be the losers and also Russia, humiliated for a second time.

It's quite simple, Standards before Status. That has to be the way. Ceku's promises mean nothing. Show through your actions, that you really are creating a multi-ethnic state. There are international laws that must be met. You cannot just desolve a UN resolution, just because it doesn't suit you. The West is, as always trying to get things their way, or no way. This will be interesting.

And if either side raises a rifle, NATO must make a convincing display of force.

International Law must be respected.
This is fundamental for everything.
Politics and lobbying must never over-ride international law and this is a fact, otherwise we will ALL live in chaotic times.

i am resurrecting my independence day contest for multi-ethnic kosovo/a. no fuss, no muss -- just choose a date and if you hit it you win a fabulous bottle of fine champagne, anywhere in the world! no losers here. the 2 dates taken so far: june 15th and july 11th. any takers out there? let's make this fun -- enough with the positioning and feuding, ok?? okay!

send all entries to robertoruss@yahoo.com

peace.

Well well there we go again with war and everything. And if you think the US will protect Kosovo has any interest in it, I think you should rethink your position. They have a huge mess in Irak and they got burned I doubt that they will come to your rescue if you threaten with war. Don't forget 1999 was before September 11th and since then state terror is persued by the US with a different eye and UCK terrorsim in Serbia was clear terrorism.

The will of the people must be respected: UN should organise a referendum asking kosovar people if they want to transform the de facto independence in legal independence.
Nobody should have the right to impose an external political choice.
Can somebody disagree on this?

to Patrick
Take care Patrick when you referee to UCK as terrorist:
1.It was a rebel army(small) that fought against the Serbian forces who killed children’s and women’s (male Albanian civilians for you means terrorists, so you don’t count them as innocent. Your standards are such). See Hague documents or at least the charges at the Belgrade trial for Serb police officials charged for Suhareka case on 1999.
2. Find any single case where Serb children’s where executed by UCK. There is no single case, non.
3. I understand you very good(if you are not Serb). There were international mercenaries who fought for the Serbs (due to their personal documents been found on their dead body or after been captured).
4. Most of Albanians believed that International community will protect us. They were wrong and they know that. I was one of them, but now days, we know that our life’s, family, homes, property primarily will be protected by ourselves.

Roberto the story is about Russian Veto - therefore there is NO independence. Of course ILLEGAL declarations can be made but resolution 1244 will stand and as such the UN will nullify such an ILLEGAL move and would dissolve the self governing administration if forced since it must uphold it's own resolutions. The US have been shown up for the false bluff of recognistion without UN resolution and if they do well I guess Abkhasia, Pridniester, South Ossetia, Nagorno Karabakh, Republika Srpska etc etc.. will have been given the green light by the US - maybe the US are ok with such a scenario?

But what of this ILLEGAL entity of Southern Kosovo & Metohija? I really think if this was to occur then the ethnic-Albaninas would look back on the last 8 years as an economic panacea - which is why I doubt any such declaration will ever happen!

One date I am sure on is the 6-8th June - the G8 summit when high on the agenda will be Kosovo & Metohija discussions for real "negotiations" - at which point Independence will be off any agenda!

Valdet i would not be so sure about the US protecting you, if you guys want to declare independence and demand you rights and pick up the gun then do so but no one has attacked you nor will they. But if you and the rest of folks beleive you can do as you wish then i afraid Val you find yourself on the outside looking in. It only takes one dummy to ruined it for everybody. Case in point Dubai, you cannot get a visa to enter the country because of couple of dumbasses trying to steal property. So just remember valdet it only takes a few to mess it up for a million.

massimo,

You said: The will of the people must be respected: UN should organise a referendum asking kosovar people if they want to transform the de facto independence in legal independence.
Nobody should have the right to impose an external political choice.

--

I agree with you but if you want to do this then the people of Serbia (over 8 Million) must be included in the vote. It would be interesting to see what the final numbers are.