Verbeke report on Kosovo stirs UN debate

Serbs were hoping so much in the 'fact dinfing mission', but even this fact finding mission was a positive one for the albanian side and a negative one for the serbian side.
Im sorry to say but B92 did not inform here that the head of the Ambassadors in fact finding mission, Mr. Verbeke said that that UN should go on and finalize the status of Kosova.
Even the beloved Russian ambassador accepted that there was improvement made in Kosova... I bet this has a lot to say for people for some serbs that hope in a russian veto.
Anyway serbs, you have to understand that if you really care for the serbs living in Kosova, then you should not ask that Russia uses veto, because if Russia uses veto, Kosova will be independent anyway, but in this way the serb minority in Kosova will not be enjoying all the benefits that are included in the Ahtisaari plan but something less than that.
Also, I have to say that Mr. Churkin said that we want some improvements in favor of serb minority in Kosova... Which means that Mr. Churkin now only cares for the serb minority in Kosova and forgot about Serbia in general and did not mention at all that the territorial integrity of Serbia like before...
The tone of Russia is surely going lower and lower as it was expected...
Also, your " strong ally" Slovakia changed her mind and now will be for Ahtisaari proposal... Its so sad that you even lost the support of Slovakia...

I always find this word "negotiations" being used in these quotes rather amusing. I find it so because there were no negotiations. When the moderator is already biased against you. The solution was already decided. If there were true negotiations, then all options would've been on the table and both sides would've known that, and both sides would've gone into the negotiations trying to make their case. The trouble is, one side felt no need. They already knew they got what they really wanted. And the other side just had to live with that.

So no, there were no negotiations. Not real ones. It was merely for show.

During the visit of UNSC Ambasadors ,Russian Ambasador was assked a question by local journalist and he answered by pointing a finger towards Vebeck and said the followin" Verbeck is my ambasador as well, therefore he will answer your question", and now Russia is contradicting itself agin as usual. Russia knows that they are fightinga loosing battle, because in way they con stop the Independence.

Western powers want to grant Albanians independence so that they can say the Kosovo war was a 'success'. They are desperate for it, especially after the mess Iraq and Afghanistan are in atm. The fact is, 8 years on the UN is still adminstering the 'province' (not country), 200,000+ non-albanians have been forced to flee their homes, 300+ churches (some including catholic, but mainly orthodox) have been destroyed, at least 50% of the youth see no future in Kosovo (they would live if given the chance), unemployment and poverty rate is amongst (if not) the highest in Europe. So how is independence going to address all these issues???

The time for further talks has run out. Those who allegedly are for further "talks" are looking for excuses to destabilise the whole region. It is very clear for those who want to see that the parties involved Kosovar Albanians and Serbs have totally different views regarding the status of the province. The Albanians want the full independence from Serbia and the Serbs want to have still the soverignity over Kosova. Their bitter history has dictated that. At least we have to agree to disagree for argument's sake. The Kosovar Albanians and the Serbs have had their chance to negotiate for a settlement for more than one year under UN Special envoy Persident Marti Ahtisari who is an extremely experience personality worldwide respected. The Kosovar Albanians agreed to make tough concessions to the Serbian minority for the sake of stability and peace. Serbs in Kosova will have priviledged garanteed rights compared even with the most development European countries. The Ahtisari plan which has been already endorsed by Kosovar Albanians will enable the safe return of displaced Serbian minority and will pave the way for historical reconciliation between the two nations Albanian and Serbian. That would mean looking for a realisitic solutions and not living with dreams with open eyes. It would be great to have the Russian support for the new UN resolution but Russia need to be reminded that it is the EU and US who are the main contributors in Kosova in every aspects and should Russia still decide to veto because of their arrogance and it slavic ties with Serbia, stuff them. At the end of the day Kosova will be in European Union before Serbia. Serbia can join Russia and good luck to them. That is also the will of the Serbian political elite such Tomislav, Koshtunica and Sheshel.

Please find below an eloquent article by a prominent Serbian historian who argues that Serbia 'lost' Kosovo from the moment it annexed it in 1912. Enjoy reading!

Kosovo - the ultimate myth

Author: Dubravka Stojanovic
Uploaded: Wednesday, 09 May, 2007


Ever since Martti Ahtisaari made his plan public, we have been hearing the most unbelievable pronouncements coming from Serbian officials concerning Kosovo’s future status. Whether ‘imaginative’ or ‘threatening’, they have the following in common: they are formulated in such a way as to prepare public opinion for a Serbian refusal to accept the international community’s decision.


As in all previous years, their statements address only an imaginary Kosovo. During the parliamentary session at which the Resolution on Kosovo was adopted, no one (except the deputies of the coalition around the Liberal-Democrats) spoke about the concrete political questions that would be posed if by some miracle Kosovo were to remain in Serbia. No one spoke, for example, about how the Serbian army and police would enter Kosovo, given that only the presence of such instruments of force testifies to real national sovereignty. No one spoke about how Kosovo citizens would vote in Serbian parliamentary elections, or how the Serbian elite would deal with Albanian deputies in parliament and Albanian ministers in Serbian governments. What sort of educational system would there be? How would the Battle of Kosovo and the Balkan Wars be taught? Would it be in the spirit of ‘the only truth’, ‘our truth’, as our current educational authorities like to say? During all these years, ever since Kosovo was separated from Serbia, I have heard no explication of such questions, because no one ever mentions Kosovo’s population. What is talked about in such conversations is only ‘Kosovo’ - a Kosovo that does not exist in reality, a Kosovo without the people.


It is my view that Serbia lost Kosovo essentially on that issue. For the Serbian political and intellectual class, Kosovo never implied its inhabitants, but only territory - an imaginary territory torn out of time, torn from reality. A field [of battle] without people, in the year 1389! This is why the debate on whether Kosovo will be lost in 2007 or whether that happened in 1999 is superfluous in my view. Taking into account all the relevant data, I think it happened in 1912, the moment when, five centuries after the celebrated battle, the territory in question was absorbed into the Serbian state.


What is the whole thing all about? Immediately after the start of the first Balkan War in 1912, the Serbian army promptly entered the territory of Kosovo; when peace was signed the region was joined to Serbia, along with Sandžak and Macedonia. The papers of the time were full of patriotic outbursts, declaring that Kosovo had been avenged, that Lazar’s promise had been fulfilled, that the medieval Serbian state had been resurrected, that the old pledge had been redeemed... At that moment even the habitually cynical Jovan Skerlić was swept along by the patriotic surge. All was exalted and patriotic until the question arose of what kind of government would be established for Kosovo: i.e. a question similar to that which meets with no reply today either. A very interesting debate opened up in the national assembly, which needs to be recalled if we are to think seriously about the very difficult question: how was it possible that within less than a century Serbia lost part of its territory - a part, moreover, that its highest representatives insist is a holy place?


Back in 1913 the issue acquired the name of ‘regulation of the new territories’. The governing Radical Party, led by Nikola Pašić, argued that a separate military-police regime should be introduced there. During the parliamentary and public debate, government officials insisted that the inhabitants of those territories were not sufficiently civilised, that they were not sufficiently politically mature, and that the Serbian democratic constitution could not be extended to those lands because their inhabitants would not know what to do with the rights it granted. The deputies worried about what would happen if the inhabitants of the ‘new territories’ gained equal voting rights, how this would influence the political balance inside Serbia itself, what would happen to the established relationship between the parties, and whether this might not bring down the government. Asked by the parliamentary opposition whether the government intended to consult the inhabitants of the ‘new territories’ on the form of government to be imposed, Stojan Protić [a prominent Radical] replied: ‘We did not consult them about their liberation either, which is why our brethren would surely permit us to govern them for five or six years in the manner we deem best. It is because we know better than they how to do it, because we are older and more mature, that we do not feel bound to ask them how they should be governed.’


This question divided the parties at the time. The otherwise conservative Progressive Party demanded that the constitution promptly be extended to the annexed lands, and advocated the convening of a Grand Assembly at which the revision of the 1903 constitution would be carried out. Its deputies argued that Serbian democracy was being tested, and that Serbs should remain consistent opponents of any division between higher and lower races (the effects of which they themselves had experienced). Opposing the government, the Independent Radical Party wrote at the time in its paper Odjek [Echo]: ‘The Radicals have proclaimed half of [the new] Serbia to be their pashalik. Through their minister of the interior they have proclaimed half of Serbia not to be Serbia, and on the territory which they consider not to be Serbian they have installed a regime of their own choosing.’ The Social Democrats were the most vociferous. They wrote in their Radničke novine [Workers’ News]: ‘One can make all sorts of criticism of the Turkish constitution, but one thing is for certain: on entering these lands Serbia should not have moved back from it but instead marched forward - promptly replacing the limited and false Turkish constitution with a true constitution, turning the patriarchal and primitive municipal self-government into a modern one, and giving the population an opportunity to feel itself to be really in Europe rather than treating it as a conquered people.’ Responding to the government’s analogy of democracy with swimming, and the argument that the population of the ‘new territories’ could not yet swim, the Social-Democrats responded: ‘Can a child ever learn to swim, unless it first jumps into the water?’


The weighty and interesting debate which took place in 1913 (of a kind that we have not had during the past decade or so) did not bear fruit, in that a decree on the new territories was adopted by virtue of which Kosovo was placed under military-police administration. The constitution was not extended to Serbia’s new territories, and their citizens did not gain the same rights as those enjoyed by the inhabitants of Serbia proper. A key role in this outcome was played by the conspirators gathered around Apis and the Black Hand. It was they, in fact, who directed Serbia’s foreign policy, and who in many ways proved stronger than the Radical government that they had brought to power after assassinating the last Obrenović [in 1903]. They were given the newly annexed territories as a kind of personal fiefdom, in which their power had no bounds.


Another problem for the population of the annexed area was that police, military and civilian officials preferred not to be posted there. Being sent there was in the nature of a punishment The officials posted to the annexed area were ones who had been found guilty back in Serbia of corruption, or of physical brutality towards prisoners. It was an administration based on convicts and retired soldiers, who governed without any supervision. This is why I think that Kosovo was ‘lost’ before it had been ‘gained’. It was ‘lost’ because of the way in which the Serbians thought about it, because of its place in the myth-prone national ideology, and because of the inability of the ruling elites to accept and understand reality. While seeking to ‘free and unite the Serb people’ and to create a large national state, Serbian politicians proved unable to rule the annexed lands in a way that would make the new inhabitants accept the new state as their own. This was true of the expanded Serbia in 1913 as well as of all subsequent Yugoslavias. Their attitude towards ‘the other’ excluded tolerance and equality.


Their understanding of the state, in other words, never went beyond the pre-modern period. The state remained an abstraction, rather like Kosovo. It seems to me, therefore, that we are witnessing the end of a policy, not that of Milošević but one that was ideologically formed at the start of the history of the modern Serbian state. The resolution in Kosovo is also the resolution of that national ideology, the end of a certain way of perceiving ourselves and others, space and time. It represents the final defeat of a stubborn refusal to understand the world and historical circumstances, and critically to confront ourselves. It is the end of a national arrogance and a distorted perception of reality.


Translated from Helsinška povelja 103-4, January-February 2007

First of all there were no negotiations between serbs and albanians. It was a farce with already in advance determined solutions from the "west"-camp or should I say the US and the UK. Ahtisaari just was their speaksperson.

Second of all the proposed plan is illegal and will if it is pushed through lead to new wars and violence. Serbia will never accept loss of territory. No other nation in the world would have accepted it and therefore you must not be surprised when Serbia starts to defend its territory.

What is the difference between the Kosovo-situation and the situation in Bosnia and in Croatia where a large serb population wanted independence?

What is this? You make up the rules a you go along or what!?!

My dear serbian friends. As we see Kosovo problem is over, It will win its independence within a month or less and nobody can change this. One thing what I would like to see now is one real attempt from both governments and also from civil societies for reconciliation of relations between our nations, in order to prevent any uncontrolled move from each sides. I am albanian and I have faced with a criminal regime during 90-th and I survived the 98-99 war, but even that I am very glad to see people living together and building their life together. You serbs, especially you who have everything good there in serbia, please don't manipulate poor serbian people here in Kosova and let them live as they want.
I pray for better days which are coming.

Re the article by Dubravka Stojanovic, it is certainly her opinion. Further investigation reveals who she works for: http://www.helsinki.org.yu/about.php?lang=en

Funded and/or supported by:

-Human Rights
Lawyers
-Srebrenica
1995-2005
-Building up Democracy and
Good Governance
in Multiethnic
Communities
-USIP
Belgrade-Prishtina
project
-Hague Tribunal
-Prevention of
Torture
-Training for
Lawyers
-Helsinki Charter
-South Serbia:
Building
Intercommunal
Ties
-Strategy for
Modernization
-Overcoming
Anti-Semitism
-Religion and
Human Rights

So it can be reasonably argued that she is not arguing as an non-partisan historian, but (and considering the timing), she plays the role of an advocate for Kosovo independence and is supported by an organization that is directly sponsored by certain states that have already decided Kosovo is to be independent.

The same goes for the likes of 'Historian' Noel Malcolm with his short histories of Bosnia and Kosovo (for idiots) who as president of the anglo-albanian society, also compromises his role as a non-partisan historian.

The Beatles were wrong. Money can buy you love.

Afrim, Ahmet, EA & Aleksandër,

sorry to disappoint but behind the scenes there is the formation of plan C. C for Contingency is being developed read the economist article fully and you will see; http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9149701

"If the assembly declared independence without a new UN resolution, the UN representative in Kosovo would be legally bound to annul the decision, making recognition by any other country tricky. The UN mission in Pristina has asked the lawyers in New York for guidance on what to do—and it is still waiting for the answer."

- the Russians have every reason to say NO - it is of course now very much in their interest and of course the US have created a very tight trap!!!

Of course the alternative plan C will be acceptable to Russia and Serbia eg Ahtisaari within Serbia just like Wisner hinted at previously we might be on the verge of a new resolution that incorporates elements of Ahtisaari - the minority rights element but is OBLIGATED (Wisner's words 2 months ago) by 1244 & thus continuing Serbia's sovereignity over all it's territory;

" Western diplomats have insisted that there is no Plan B. Now they are falling back on a Plan C, for contingency. One idea, if Russia refuses to budge, is being called “Ahtisaari minus status”. It would accept much of the plan, including the replacement of the UN by the EU. But determining the formal status of the territory would be put off until a review in, say, a year's time. American diplomats furiously reject this suggestion, arguing that Kosovo's status must be settled now. Yet without the endorsement of the Ahtisaari plan, all other options are unpalatable."

Looks like we might have a resolution after all - Ahtisaari minus status - sounds very appealing - certainly sounds like the US & Uk are coming round to their senses!

Justice Veritas,

First of all Serbia is too weak to start a new war or any military operation.
Secondly if you would start one you would be hit hard again. All those "hits" were not enough for you?

"Western envoys suggested Russia was being more flexible in closed-door negotiations"

These are comments from minority of very noisy US diplomats who come from fantasy world, constructed to impress American voters, in which failures are sold as successes. When Kosovo resolution hits wall in UNSC, Will Dubya stand on a deck of some another warship and declare supposed victory once again?

Joe,

Serbia does not need war when legality is fairly and squarly on it's side - that is a preposterous suggestion and correct me if I am wrong but the only side suggesting violence is teh ethnic-Albanians if they do not get what they want. However, I guess plan C is being formulated and "Ahtisaari minus staus" is concievably a the WIN-WIN that Serbia would settle for.

Let me remind you what is the perceived wisdom of your ethnic-Albanian leadership;

"But Kosovo's leaders now say they will do nothing without the Americans' say-so. If the assembly declared independence without a new UN resolution, the UN representative in Kosovo would be legally bound to annul the decision, making recognition by any other country tricky."

You see your leadership have pinned all and everything on the US but things change in 8 years and as many have mentioned if Independence was not granted immediatly after the war in 1999 it cannot be now given retrospectivly - nor can the US ILLEGALLY recognise an ILLEGAL entity - unless of course it wished to lose all credibility that it has left and show the world that this has been super-power is no longer a force for good in the world - that would be tragic and given the recent reminder of ethnic-Albanian "friendship" - fort Dix - I think there are few who congresswo/men wishing to bring to much attention to the issue currently.

There will be no resolution that ignores international law and disrespects a sovereign states territorial integrity and as such it looks like "Ahtisaari minus status" is the best that can happen for all concerned. Following on from that I think you will find that your leaderhip will be fueding between yourselves but no one will be willing to step out of the US determined line!!! Get ready for EUMIK overseeing the implementaion of Ahtisaari in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

Aleksandër,

I read that article yesterday. Very interesting and very well written. However, it raises two points that I don't think you considered:

1. It certainly doesn't argue that K-Albanians are in any better position to govern Kosovo. It mentions Serb mismanagement, but it certainly doesn't cast the region in any productive light, especially for the likes of the people you elected to run it.

2. This is a great sign that dissention and non-conformity with ideas and symbols can and does exist in Serbia. It's called freedom on speech, and it's a fundamental tenet of democracy. Could you produce an Albanian journalist who doesn't toe the official line in Pristina and doesn't live like a pariah? Last time I looked, you guys are having a hard time trying to keep people testifying against Haradinaj alive.

Princip,

You didn't disappoint me as I know exactely how you feel. It would be difficult for some Serbs to accept the new reality in Kosova and that is nothing less that full independence from Serbia. It will take some time for Serbs to come to terms with that reality, some of them might be thinking leaving the province soon after the recognition of the independence of Kosova, but many Serbs will be back to Kosova as they will realise that their leaders have mislead them all the time in their names. The independent Kosova hopefully under the United Nations resolution and EU supervision will garantee the safe and peaceful return of other desplaced people. That is something that the Albanian majority have adhered to cooperate with the international community. That is their commitment to supporting Ahtisari Plan. Regarding the article in "The Economist" it is all about the way how you read the article and your desire to take things out of context is unhelpful and proves ones again your desperation and others who think like you. In any case it doesnt do any good to you and those innocent Serbian people who really want to live in Kosova. While reading the article you are missing the point by failing to see the woods for the trees, and still having illusions about the true facts. If you read my comments carefully you will see that I genuinely intend to encourage both Albanian and Serbs in Kosova to live to the new realities together and change the Balkan mentality in solving their historic problems. To summirise Kosova should be independent because of its historic merits, brutal treatment that Kosovar Albanians suffered from the Serbian state, NATO intervention to stop the ethnic cleansing, it is a unique case and de facto Kosova has been independent since more almost a decade now. That would be a very good lesson for those dictators and countries who support them that oppression towards your "own" people will make them lose their country.

Prinicp

Lets say hypotheticaly that that does happen i.e. Plan C 'Ahtisaari minus status' to be review in a year or two!

What do you think is going to happen in a year or two? Do you think albanians will just forget about independence?

It hasn't happend for the last 8 years (and more) its not going to happend in a year or two. All thats going to happend is prolong the suspense, tensions and misery of Kosovan residents. And still albanisn and serbs will never agree even if negotiations go on for another 10 years!

But I suppose prologning the misery of K albanians (and serbs) would make some people happy here!

All this is irrelevant, since there won't be a stupid illogiccal resolution like that, since the whole point of the resolution is to determine the status!

"The time for further talks has run out. Those who allegedly are for further "talks" are looking for excuses to destabilize the whole region. It is very clear for those who want to see that the parties involved Kosovar Albanians and Serbs have totally different views regarding the status of the province. The Albanians want the full independence from Serbia and the Serbs want to have still the sovereignty over Kosova."(EA, Friday, 11 May, 2007, 11:45)
EA, while it may be appropriate for you to speak on behalf of the Ghegs in Kosovo (Assuming you are Gheg), I do not believe you understand the Serbian viewpoint well enough to represent our needs and wishes. While it would be helpful for your cause if all Serbs only wanted continued sovereignty and nothing else, the fact is many if not most Serbs would be willing to consider a compromise solution such as partition. Many Ghegs have also expressed support for such a situation, and when you include Presevo into the equation, you have strong support among the Gheg population. Even some of the most extreme on this website have grudgingly acknowledged that this scenario would be acceptable to them if it were to include Presevo.
Even China is now becoming very vocal for continued discussion on the topic.
"China's deputy U.N. ambassador, Liu Zhenmin, called the Kosovo issue "a major challenge" for the council and said Beijing is prepared to work constructively to find a compromise solution.
"There is a need for all sides to reflect on the ways and means to promote reconciliation..., maintain the lasting peace and security in the Balkan region, and maintain integrity and authority of international law," he said.
"On this major issue, adequate patience, flexibility and caution are necessary and worthwhile."
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007May10/0,4670,UNKosovo,00.html

"Serbs in Kosova will have privileged guaranteed rights"(EA, Friday, 11 May, 2007, 11:45)
Please EA tell me which rights are actually guaranteed? Did you even bother to read Ahtisaari's proposal? The fact is nearly all these so called "guarantees" can be repealed with a simple majority vote of the seats in the assembly reserved for minorities, half of which go to non-Serbs. Please read paragraph 3.7 carefully and tell me what guarantees the Serbs truly have there. In addition, the rights and protections for the Serbs of Kosvo are far more limited then what the Republic of Srpska enjoys, that simply doesn't make sense.
"3.7 The following laws shall require for their adoption, amendment or repeal both the majority of the Assembly members present and voting and the majority of the Assembly members holding seats reserved or guaranteed for representatives of Communities that are not in the majority in Kosovo:
a. Laws changing municipal boundaries, establishing or abolishing municipalities, defining the scope of powers of municipalities and their participation in inter- municipal and cross-border relations;
b. Laws implementing the rights of Communities and their members, other than those set forth in the Constitution;
c. Laws on the use of language;
d. Laws on local elections;
e. Laws on the protection of cultural heritage;
f. Laws on religious freedom or on agreements with religious communities;
g. Laws on education;
h. Laws on the use of symbols (including Community symbols) and on public holidays."

Clearly the result of such a structure for the assembly will be that the other minorities in Kosovo will have enormous pressure put on them in order to curtail the existing protections for Serbians there. This much is obvious from the many negative comments coming from the Ghegs opposing the level of protections given to the Serbs under the current Ahtisaari proposal. Its only a matter of time until the attempt is made to repeal these.
My particular concern is for the Roma of Kosovo, who have traditionally suffered the greatest of any ethnicity in Kosovo. One look at the breakdown on the number of victims in Kosovo proves the Roma suffered by far the highest per capita percentage of their population. The Roma have no country of their own, yet have managed to strongly maintain their identity and culture over the years. Is it not time to discuss the creation of a homeland for them? If Kosovar Ghegs have earned the moral right to rule themselves as a result of human rights violations and the need for international intervention to protect them, would not the same exact argument apply to the Roma? Considering the Roma have no country to call their own, and much like the Jews they have faced genocide in the past, it is only fair that they have at least one country in which they can be safe and make decisions for themselves. I personally believe that both Serbia and Kosovo should contribute some territory for the creation of such a noble project. For too long the Roma have faced discrimination and oppression in Europe.

Shukri Gashi: "You serbs, especially you who have everything good there in serbia, please don't manipulate poor serbian people here in Kosova and let them live as they want."

The Serbs in Kosovo want to live in their own country that they have lived in for 90+ years. Now who is it that wants to deny them that?

Joe, though I doubt there will be any war and violence, if there is it will be something similar to 17 March 2004. If KFOR don't do anything to stop it then Serbia would be well within its rights to intervene. NATO would have a hard time trying to explain then any counter measures when it failed to stop the keep a lid on the situation in the first place. Especially as getting away with a demonisation campaign like they did in 1999 wouldn't wash a second time. And if the hits in 1999 weren't enough NATO can rebuild everything for a second time like it is still doing from 1999.

Well Joe, don't under estimate your thinking are you sure that NATO would be bombing Serbia? Do you think they will attack a member of the Partnership for peace? You had better study more about politics and Defense pacts. I am sure there will be no war. Without the Support of the US the used to be KLA would have no chance. Most of the fighting age men left Kosovo for Macedonia and other places so they did not have to fight the majority were mujhadeens and other soliders of fortune. but you had all the brave KLA fighters coming back from Blace and other refugee camps proclaming victory.

It is true that real negotiations did not take place - not because the Contact Group (including Russia and the US) and UN envoy didnt try, but because it is impossible to negotiate if one of the sides simply repeats over and over their position. Serbian negotiators refused to negotiate. Serbian people should hold responsible for this. And still Kostunica repeats the same thing over and over in the press on Kosovo - independence is unacceptable. That is not a negotiating position, that is an ultimatum. And in issuing that repeatedly, he only hurts the Kosovo Serbs who may lose the best plan they will ever see. And who will be blamed for that? The UN, the U.S. and the Contact Group (except Russia) - the very people who wrote the plan, and are on the ground doing their best to keep the peace now. Ironic. Balkan.

300+churches (some catholic but majority orthodox0 were destroyed during past 8 years, said BK.
My friend, I am K-Albanian catholic and living in Kosova, but I have never herd such thing about catholic churches and we Albanians never had religious problems, we are by nationality Albanians but we practise religion of our choice. Now this is true democracy and we do not mix religion with state.

EA, I would suggets with a few of your own words

"If you read my comments carefully you will see that I genuinely intend to encourage" all in Serbia "to live to the new realities together and change the Balkan mentality in solving their historic problems."

- I think this would be the best possible solution do you not? Or do you think a new found mentality would come about by creating new walls and borders between all the peoples of Serbia ???? If you do then I guess you do not see a EU future for an ILLEGAL entity that was founded upon Illegal declarations and against International law and UN Resolutions!

Matthew,

I have mentioned in the past that I do not believe that partition of Serbia in any way or form is the best alternative but I do think it is an important alternative just as their might be many other alternatives. Only by real and substantive discussions and talks involving all the peoples can one discover the win-win solution which would be agreeable to all whom matter - trying to preclude such an outcome is denying lasting peace and against all rules of mediation. You are right to bring up the point that the Roma have been overlooked and it is another reason why real talks and negotiations should be held and that representatives of all ethnic groups should be able to represent themselves at a table with the governing leadership of Serbia at the helm. Ahtisaari has given no seconds thought for any other alternative other then his own pre-ordained (prejudiced) solution and has shown little respect of all & many ethnic minorities by ignoring all bar Serbs and ethnic-Albanians from this Serbian province - so much for "multi-ethnic" representation - maybe you are right to consider this point. I guess if partition did occur then one needs to consider all the ethnic groups not just ignore them because it makes the job of a so called "mediator" such as Ahtisaari easier - he took 15 years to solve Namibia so he should be a bit wiser now to allow for the real talks that must occuer if he is genuine about lasting peace and bringing stability to the region! Surely this is just another flaw in the Ahtisaari plan since it is not repective of all the ethnic groups (Roma, Gorani, Askali, Bosniak etc.. and even the jewish who were all evicted in 1999) - all of whom should be respected in terms of language, religion and self governing regions. Morover, the plan should be based on the situation as it was in 1999 not on the convienence of appeasing ethnic cleansing Albanians and the areas of self governing should respect that situation before 1999 - see the distribution maps for Serb populated areas;
http://www.alternativeinsight.com/KOSOVO1999.jpeg
Also for both Roma and Serbs.
http://www.csdbalkans.org/roma/Photos/Kosovo_minorities_1991_census.jpg

When you look at the map it is hard to suggest partition without disturbing anyone but if the West is determined in partitioning a UN recognised state then they really need to understand the consequences globally that such a precedent will set NATO intervention or not there is nothing unique to Kosovo & Metohija.

Matthew,

I appreciate your comments in here and without prejudging your intentions, there are few points that I would like to clarify to you. I am originally from Tirana and a UK resident. You seem to be one of those partisans whom advocate the partition of Kosova as a compromise solution. That would mean asking for redrawing the borders in the Balkans. I beleive that you would agree how complicated that would be especially when you are talking about partitions based on ethnic lines. That would destibilise Macedonia first and other countries in the region. I can tell you for certain that Albania Kosova and Macedonia are looking forward to their future in Europe and we believe in co-existence in a Europe without borders. I did mention in my earlier comment that "Serbs in Kosova will have priviledged garanteed rights" but you missed an important point there because I was refering to the future rights upon the application of President Ahtisari plan should it be endorsed by United Nation Security Council. I invite you to read my previous comment again. The future independent Kosova should be a functional one like in any normal European democratic country. It would not be acceptable that a small minority is given the right to block the normal function of an entire country and in our case Kosova. I am afraid to say but you are also confusing two different realities when referring by comparison the rights of Serbs in Republic of Srpska rights and the Serbian minority in Kosova. It would be much more realistic to recognise the same rights to the Albanians in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegje as the rights enjoyed by Serbian minority in Kosova. That would lead to an historical agreement between the two nations Albanian and Serb.

Ana Wrote:

"Kostunica repeats the same thing over and over in the press on Kosovo - independence is unacceptable. That is not a negotiating position, that is an ultimatum. And in issuing that repeatedly, he only hurts the Kosovo Serbs who may lose the best plan they will ever see."

The truth is that the Serbs already have a better plan in UNSC Resolution 1244, which confirms that Kosovo is part of Serbia and guarrantees protection for the Serb Civillians, their churches & monuments, property rights, and the right of refugee return. Despite the fact that UNSC 1244 was approved by the UN Security Council,those contries responsible for implementing it have failed miserbly: Namely USA, UK,Germany, and the other non-Russian members of the contact group whom you mentioned.

The truthi is this:
Over the past 15 years western contries like USA, UK, Germany,France, and others who advocate "kosovar independence" have:

1. bombed Serbian Civillians in 3 seperate contries (Serbia-Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia)

2. aided and abetted Islamic terrorists targetting Serbs in Kosovo and Bosnia.

3. failed to protect Serb Life, Property, Culture, & religious freedom in Kosmet over the past 8 yrs., despite approving UNSC 1244 which specifically obligates them to do so.

4. have violated the terms of every agreement they've made with Serbia, despite the fact that Serbia has honored every agreement made with these nations to the letter.

5. continue to insist on collectively blame in all of Serbia for genocide in the Balkans, despie the fact that the ICJ recently exhonerated Serbia of all genocide charges in Bosnia, charges, and that the alledged "genocide" of albanians in Kosovo which never actually happened.

Given these facts, Kostunica is absolutely right not to trust the Ahtisassari, USA, Nato, and especially not the Albanians, all of whom have long since proven that their words and guarrantees are meaningless. I absolutely support the Legal and Principled stance of Serbia, Russia, China, Indonesia, Slovakia and others who are rejecting Ahtisarri's worthless plan, and insisting on the full implementation of UNSC resolution 1244, which guarantees Serbia's territorial integrity and soveirnty over Kosovo i Metohia.

I had a very quick scan through some comments on this page and I just had to say something.


Princip – stop fantasising! There will be no “Ahtisaari minus status”, no matter how many times you repeat it!

Matthew – Maybe I’m just not very clever but from what I know Gheg is a northern Albanian dialect. I really don’t understand what the dialect has to do with Kosovos solution.


The way I see it is that Kosovo was part of former Yugoslavia, just like Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia who are now all independent countries. Why shouldn’t Kosovo be? Yeah I know Kosovo legally never had the same status as these countries but just because Yugoslavia didn’t give Kosovo the same status it doesn’t mean Kosovo didn’t deserve it. A lot of mistakes have been done in the past that could have been prevented and now it’s a bit late and very difficult to get it fixed, so now the whole world has to get their hands dirty. But please don’t act as if Kosovos future will influence the whole world. Where was Russia when the other former Yugoslavian countries declared independence? And also I don’t think Serbia is in the position to say whether Kosovos independence is legal or not, considering the fact that Serbia tried to ethnically cleans Kosovo of its majority population.

From what I have read Albanians do not deserve independence, bc they have proven time and time again they they are not competent enough to govern Kosovo even with UN and NATO supervision. However Serbia has mad great strides to satisfy the West. Though ALL (serbian and albanian) of the civilians of Kosovo have lived through atrocities Kosovo will just become the Wests playground as it is today. Kosovo should not get independence if the Kurds cannot. there has to be a standard in the world not just double standards and hypocrisy . Independence will further ruin Serb-Albanian relations and will leave scars which cannot heal thus there has so be a compromise. If Europe is headed towards unification then it has to start with Serbs and Albanians unifying and finding a middle ground, western quick decisions will not keep the region stable because historical conflict like this do not and have not gone away.

I would say it is in every ones interest for Kosovo to be independent. Both Serbs and Albanians would profit from it. Both countries would end up in the EU and everybody would be happy. And precisely because both countries will be in the EU some time soon I don’t think Russia should get involved. They should worry about their own internal problems, whoops sorry yeah they are doing, from what I can see Russia is trying to get some kind of deal from the western countries out of Kosovo. I guess the West doesn’t want to play ball hm!?

One has to feel sorry for Serbia and its people. They have indeed suffered a lot in the last 15 years. One would think people learn from their mistakes, but obviously not. Still they are voting for the same people who have the same crazy ideas.

But hey it’s not all bad, at least Serbia won the Eurovision Song Contest. That’s a victory to celebrated right? WRONG! Serbs only celebrate loses like the battle of 1389!!!?!?

Sorry for all the sarcastic comments but it is really sad to see the peoples of Serbia suffering just because Serbias leaders have their own (very unrealistic) ideas.

I have to say that anyone who suggests that Serbs should just accept a part of their country being ripped away has got to be seriously out of their minds. Giving a piece of their own country away should not be a bases for joining the EU. I just can't believe how some people don't see the hypocrasy of this whole thing. Also, I can't believe how Albanians on here take pride on having support from the Americans.. where the hell have you been lately?

“It would be much more realistic to recognise the same rights to the Albanians in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegje as the rights enjoyed by Serbian minority in Kosova. That would lead to an historical agreement between the two nations Albanian and Serb.”

Yes, I agree about the treatment and rights for minorities. I would go further for Presevo et all and grant them independence as well, if they so chose to do so.

“I was refering to the future rights upon the application of President Ahtisari plan should it be endorsed by United Nation Security Council”

So was I, I quoted paragraph 3.7 of Annex 1 or 2, I forget which one. Its incredibly dangerous for the future relations between minorities there.

In Bosnia, Serbs were given a sort of autonomy, almost a country within a country, probably similar to what Kostunica would grant Albanians in Kosovo. No one can seriously deny that Serbs at times have also been oppressed when they found themselves in the minority in Kosovo. 2004 is the most recent example, WWII was probably one of the more severe incidents in the modern age. So yeah, at the very least if Kosovo were granted independence they should have at least the level of protection they enjoy in Bosnia.

“You seem to be one of those partisans whom advocate the partition of Kosova as a compromise solution. That would mean asking for redrawing the borders in the Balkans. I beleive that you would agree how complicated that would be especially when you are talking about partitions based on ethnic lines. That would destibilise Macedonia first and other countries in the region.”

I agree the risk of destabilization is great in a partition plan. However, it if were done in a peaceful and agreed upon manner without the use of violence it would set a valuable precedent for dealing with such issues in the future in the region. The fact is, granting Kosovo independence is just as likely to fuel further destabilization as partition. If you are worried about further calls for Albanian independence then obviously the solution which discourages that the most is to keep Kosovo as a part of Serbia.

Partition is the obvious solution with the best protections for both Serbians and Ghegs. Ahtisaari’s proposal is facing a seriously uphill battle. If Kosovo is unilaterally recognized, I’m sure Russia will follow suit and recognize the Serbian areas. I do hope that partition is done in a negotiated fashion. This is the best way forward and would show the international community that both Serbian and Albanian leaders can act in a responsible and mature manner.

Serbs were hoping so much in the 'fact dinfing mission', but even this fact finding mission was a positive one for the albanian side and a negative one for the serbian side.
Im sorry to say but B92 did not inform here that the head of the Ambassadors in fact finding mission, Mr. Verbeke said that that UN should go on and finalize the status of Kosova.
Even the beloved Russian ambassador accepted that there was improvement made in Kosova... I bet this has a lot to say for people for some serbs that hope in a russian veto.
Anyway serbs, you have to understand that if you really care for the serbs living in Kosova, then you should not ask that Russia uses veto, because if Russia uses veto, Kosova will be independent anyway, but in this way the serb minority in Kosova will not be enjoying all the benefits that are included in the Ahtisaari plan but something less than that.
Also, I have to say that Mr. Churkin said that we want some improvements in favor of serb minority in Kosova... Which means that Mr. Churkin now only cares for the serb minority in Kosova and forgot about Serbia in general and did not mention at all that the territorial integrity of Serbia like before...
The tone of Russia is surely going lower and lower as it was expected...
Also, your " strong ally" Slovakia changed her mind and now will be for Ahtisaari proposal... Its so sad that you even lost the support of Slovakia...

I always find this word "negotiations" being used in these quotes rather amusing. I find it so because there were no negotiations. When the moderator is already biased against you. The solution was already decided. If there were true negotiations, then all options would've been on the table and both sides would've known that, and both sides would've gone into the negotiations trying to make their case. The trouble is, one side felt no need. They already knew they got what they really wanted. And the other side just had to live with that.

So no, there were no negotiations. Not real ones. It was merely for show.

During the visit of UNSC Ambasadors ,Russian Ambasador was assked a question by local journalist and he answered by pointing a finger towards Vebeck and said the followin" Verbeck is my ambasador as well, therefore he will answer your question", and now Russia is contradicting itself agin as usual. Russia knows that they are fightinga loosing battle, because in way they con stop the Independence.

Western powers want to grant Albanians independence so that they can say the Kosovo war was a 'success'. They are desperate for it, especially after the mess Iraq and Afghanistan are in atm. The fact is, 8 years on the UN is still adminstering the 'province' (not country), 200,000+ non-albanians have been forced to flee their homes, 300+ churches (some including catholic, but mainly orthodox) have been destroyed, at least 50% of the youth see no future in Kosovo (they would live if given the chance), unemployment and poverty rate is amongst (if not) the highest in Europe. So how is independence going to address all these issues???

The time for further talks has run out. Those who allegedly are for further "talks" are looking for excuses to destabilise the whole region. It is very clear for those who want to see that the parties involved Kosovar Albanians and Serbs have totally different views regarding the status of the province. The Albanians want the full independence from Serbia and the Serbs want to have still the soverignity over Kosova. Their bitter history has dictated that. At least we have to agree to disagree for argument's sake. The Kosovar Albanians and the Serbs have had their chance to negotiate for a settlement for more than one year under UN Special envoy Persident Marti Ahtisari who is an extremely experience personality worldwide respected. The Kosovar Albanians agreed to make tough concessions to the Serbian minority for the sake of stability and peace. Serbs in Kosova will have priviledged garanteed rights compared even with the most development European countries. The Ahtisari plan which has been already endorsed by Kosovar Albanians will enable the safe return of displaced Serbian minority and will pave the way for historical reconciliation between the two nations Albanian and Serbian. That would mean looking for a realisitic solutions and not living with dreams with open eyes. It would be great to have the Russian support for the new UN resolution but Russia need to be reminded that it is the EU and US who are the main contributors in Kosova in every aspects and should Russia still decide to veto because of their arrogance and it slavic ties with Serbia, stuff them. At the end of the day Kosova will be in European Union before Serbia. Serbia can join Russia and good luck to them. That is also the will of the Serbian political elite such Tomislav, Koshtunica and Sheshel.

Please find below an eloquent article by a prominent Serbian historian who argues that Serbia 'lost' Kosovo from the moment it annexed it in 1912. Enjoy reading!

Kosovo - the ultimate myth

Author: Dubravka Stojanovic
Uploaded: Wednesday, 09 May, 2007


Ever since Martti Ahtisaari made his plan public, we have been hearing the most unbelievable pronouncements coming from Serbian officials concerning Kosovo’s future status. Whether ‘imaginative’ or ‘threatening’, they have the following in common: they are formulated in such a way as to prepare public opinion for a Serbian refusal to accept the international community’s decision.


As in all previous years, their statements address only an imaginary Kosovo. During the parliamentary session at which the Resolution on Kosovo was adopted, no one (except the deputies of the coalition around the Liberal-Democrats) spoke about the concrete political questions that would be posed if by some miracle Kosovo were to remain in Serbia. No one spoke, for example, about how the Serbian army and police would enter Kosovo, given that only the presence of such instruments of force testifies to real national sovereignty. No one spoke about how Kosovo citizens would vote in Serbian parliamentary elections, or how the Serbian elite would deal with Albanian deputies in parliament and Albanian ministers in Serbian governments. What sort of educational system would there be? How would the Battle of Kosovo and the Balkan Wars be taught? Would it be in the spirit of ‘the only truth’, ‘our truth’, as our current educational authorities like to say? During all these years, ever since Kosovo was separated from Serbia, I have heard no explication of such questions, because no one ever mentions Kosovo’s population. What is talked about in such conversations is only ‘Kosovo’ - a Kosovo that does not exist in reality, a Kosovo without the people.


It is my view that Serbia lost Kosovo essentially on that issue. For the Serbian political and intellectual class, Kosovo never implied its inhabitants, but only territory - an imaginary territory torn out of time, torn from reality. A field [of battle] without people, in the year 1389! This is why the debate on whether Kosovo will be lost in 2007 or whether that happened in 1999 is superfluous in my view. Taking into account all the relevant data, I think it happened in 1912, the moment when, five centuries after the celebrated battle, the territory in question was absorbed into the Serbian state.


What is the whole thing all about? Immediately after the start of the first Balkan War in 1912, the Serbian army promptly entered the territory of Kosovo; when peace was signed the region was joined to Serbia, along with Sandžak and Macedonia. The papers of the time were full of patriotic outbursts, declaring that Kosovo had been avenged, that Lazar’s promise had been fulfilled, that the medieval Serbian state had been resurrected, that the old pledge had been redeemed... At that moment even the habitually cynical Jovan Skerlić was swept along by the patriotic surge. All was exalted and patriotic until the question arose of what kind of government would be established for Kosovo: i.e. a question similar to that which meets with no reply today either. A very interesting debate opened up in the national assembly, which needs to be recalled if we are to think seriously about the very difficult question: how was it possible that within less than a century Serbia lost part of its territory - a part, moreover, that its highest representatives insist is a holy place?


Back in 1913 the issue acquired the name of ‘regulation of the new territories’. The governing Radical Party, led by Nikola Pašić, argued that a separate military-police regime should be introduced there. During the parliamentary and public debate, government officials insisted that the inhabitants of those territories were not sufficiently civilised, that they were not sufficiently politically mature, and that the Serbian democratic constitution could not be extended to those lands because their inhabitants would not know what to do with the rights it granted. The deputies worried about what would happen if the inhabitants of the ‘new territories’ gained equal voting rights, how this would influence the political balance inside Serbia itself, what would happen to the established relationship between the parties, and whether this might not bring down the government. Asked by the parliamentary opposition whether the government intended to consult the inhabitants of the ‘new territories’ on the form of government to be imposed, Stojan Protić [a prominent Radical] replied: ‘We did not consult them about their liberation either, which is why our brethren would surely permit us to govern them for five or six years in the manner we deem best. It is because we know better than they how to do it, because we are older and more mature, that we do not feel bound to ask them how they should be governed.’


This question divided the parties at the time. The otherwise conservative Progressive Party demanded that the constitution promptly be extended to the annexed lands, and advocated the convening of a Grand Assembly at which the revision of the 1903 constitution would be carried out. Its deputies argued that Serbian democracy was being tested, and that Serbs should remain consistent opponents of any division between higher and lower races (the effects of which they themselves had experienced). Opposing the government, the Independent Radical Party wrote at the time in its paper Odjek [Echo]: ‘The Radicals have proclaimed half of [the new] Serbia to be their pashalik. Through their minister of the interior they have proclaimed half of Serbia not to be Serbia, and on the territory which they consider not to be Serbian they have installed a regime of their own choosing.’ The Social Democrats were the most vociferous. They wrote in their Radničke novine [Workers’ News]: ‘One can make all sorts of criticism of the Turkish constitution, but one thing is for certain: on entering these lands Serbia should not have moved back from it but instead marched forward - promptly replacing the limited and false Turkish constitution with a true constitution, turning the patriarchal and primitive municipal self-government into a modern one, and giving the population an opportunity to feel itself to be really in Europe rather than treating it as a conquered people.’ Responding to the government’s analogy of democracy with swimming, and the argument that the population of the ‘new territories’ could not yet swim, the Social-Democrats responded: ‘Can a child ever learn to swim, unless it first jumps into the water?’


The weighty and interesting debate which took place in 1913 (of a kind that we have not had during the past decade or so) did not bear fruit, in that a decree on the new territories was adopted by virtue of which Kosovo was placed under military-police administration. The constitution was not extended to Serbia’s new territories, and their citizens did not gain the same rights as those enjoyed by the inhabitants of Serbia proper. A key role in this outcome was played by the conspirators gathered around Apis and the Black Hand. It was they, in fact, who directed Serbia’s foreign policy, and who in many ways proved stronger than the Radical government that they had brought to power after assassinating the last Obrenović [in 1903]. They were given the newly annexed territories as a kind of personal fiefdom, in which their power had no bounds.


Another problem for the population of the annexed area was that police, military and civilian officials preferred not to be posted there. Being sent there was in the nature of a punishment The officials posted to the annexed area were ones who had been found guilty back in Serbia of corruption, or of physical brutality towards prisoners. It was an administration based on convicts and retired soldiers, who governed without any supervision. This is why I think that Kosovo was ‘lost’ before it had been ‘gained’. It was ‘lost’ because of the way in which the Serbians thought about it, because of its place in the myth-prone national ideology, and because of the inability of the ruling elites to accept and understand reality. While seeking to ‘free and unite the Serb people’ and to create a large national state, Serbian politicians proved unable to rule the annexed lands in a way that would make the new inhabitants accept the new state as their own. This was true of the expanded Serbia in 1913 as well as of all subsequent Yugoslavias. Their attitude towards ‘the other’ excluded tolerance and equality.


Their understanding of the state, in other words, never went beyond the pre-modern period. The state remained an abstraction, rather like Kosovo. It seems to me, therefore, that we are witnessing the end of a policy, not that of Milošević but one that was ideologically formed at the start of the history of the modern Serbian state. The resolution in Kosovo is also the resolution of that national ideology, the end of a certain way of perceiving ourselves and others, space and time. It represents the final defeat of a stubborn refusal to understand the world and historical circumstances, and critically to confront ourselves. It is the end of a national arrogance and a distorted perception of reality.


Translated from Helsinška povelja 103-4, January-February 2007

First of all there were no negotiations between serbs and albanians. It was a farce with already in advance determined solutions from the "west"-camp or should I say the US and the UK. Ahtisaari just was their speaksperson.

Second of all the proposed plan is illegal and will if it is pushed through lead to new wars and violence. Serbia will never accept loss of territory. No other nation in the world would have accepted it and therefore you must not be surprised when Serbia starts to defend its territory.

What is the difference between the Kosovo-situation and the situation in Bosnia and in Croatia where a large serb population wanted independence?

What is this? You make up the rules a you go along or what!?!

My dear serbian friends. As we see Kosovo problem is over, It will win its independence within a month or less and nobody can change this. One thing what I would like to see now is one real attempt from both governments and also from civil societies for reconciliation of relations between our nations, in order to prevent any uncontrolled move from each sides. I am albanian and I have faced with a criminal regime during 90-th and I survived the 98-99 war, but even that I am very glad to see people living together and building their life together. You serbs, especially you who have everything good there in serbia, please don't manipulate poor serbian people here in Kosova and let them live as they want.
I pray for better days which are coming.

Re the article by Dubravka Stojanovic, it is certainly her opinion. Further investigation reveals who she works for: http://www.helsinki.org.yu/about.php?lang=en

Funded and/or supported by:

-Human Rights
Lawyers
-Srebrenica
1995-2005
-Building up Democracy and
Good Governance
in Multiethnic
Communities
-USIP
Belgrade-Prishtina
project
-Hague Tribunal
-Prevention of
Torture
-Training for
Lawyers
-Helsinki Charter
-South Serbia:
Building
Intercommunal
Ties
-Strategy for
Modernization
-Overcoming
Anti-Semitism
-Religion and
Human Rights

So it can be reasonably argued that she is not arguing as an non-partisan historian, but (and considering the timing), she plays the role of an advocate for Kosovo independence and is supported by an organization that is directly sponsored by certain states that have already decided Kosovo is to be independent.

The same goes for the likes of 'Historian' Noel Malcolm with his short histories of Bosnia and Kosovo (for idiots) who as president of the anglo-albanian society, also compromises his role as a non-partisan historian.

The Beatles were wrong. Money can buy you love.

Afrim, Ahmet, EA & Aleksandër,

sorry to disappoint but behind the scenes there is the formation of plan C. C for Contingency is being developed read the economist article fully and you will see; http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9149701

"If the assembly declared independence without a new UN resolution, the UN representative in Kosovo would be legally bound to annul the decision, making recognition by any other country tricky. The UN mission in Pristina has asked the lawyers in New York for guidance on what to do—and it is still waiting for the answer."

- the Russians have every reason to say NO - it is of course now very much in their interest and of course the US have created a very tight trap!!!

Of course the alternative plan C will be acceptable to Russia and Serbia eg Ahtisaari within Serbia just like Wisner hinted at previously we might be on the verge of a new resolution that incorporates elements of Ahtisaari - the minority rights element but is OBLIGATED (Wisner's words 2 months ago) by 1244 & thus continuing Serbia's sovereignity over all it's territory;

" Western diplomats have insisted that there is no Plan B. Now they are falling back on a Plan C, for contingency. One idea, if Russia refuses to budge, is being called “Ahtisaari minus status”. It would accept much of the plan, including the replacement of the UN by the EU. But determining the formal status of the territory would be put off until a review in, say, a year's time. American diplomats furiously reject this suggestion, arguing that Kosovo's status must be settled now. Yet without the endorsement of the Ahtisaari plan, all other options are unpalatable."

Looks like we might have a resolution after all - Ahtisaari minus status - sounds very appealing - certainly sounds like the US & Uk are coming round to their senses!

Justice Veritas,

First of all Serbia is too weak to start a new war or any military operation.
Secondly if you would start one you would be hit hard again. All those "hits" were not enough for you?

"Western envoys suggested Russia was being more flexible in closed-door negotiations"

These are comments from minority of very noisy US diplomats who come from fantasy world, constructed to impress American voters, in which failures are sold as successes. When Kosovo resolution hits wall in UNSC, Will Dubya stand on a deck of some another warship and declare supposed victory once again?

Joe,

Serbia does not need war when legality is fairly and squarly on it's side - that is a preposterous suggestion and correct me if I am wrong but the only side suggesting violence is teh ethnic-Albanians if they do not get what they want. However, I guess plan C is being formulated and "Ahtisaari minus staus" is concievably a the WIN-WIN that Serbia would settle for.

Let me remind you what is the perceived wisdom of your ethnic-Albanian leadership;

"But Kosovo's leaders now say they will do nothing without the Americans' say-so. If the assembly declared independence without a new UN resolution, the UN representative in Kosovo would be legally bound to annul the decision, making recognition by any other country tricky."

You see your leadership have pinned all and everything on the US but things change in 8 years and as many have mentioned if Independence was not granted immediatly after the war in 1999 it cannot be now given retrospectivly - nor can the US ILLEGALLY recognise an ILLEGAL entity - unless of course it wished to lose all credibility that it has left and show the world that this has been super-power is no longer a force for good in the world - that would be tragic and given the recent reminder of ethnic-Albanian "friendship" - fort Dix - I think there are few who congresswo/men wishing to bring to much attention to the issue currently.

There will be no resolution that ignores international law and disrespects a sovereign states territorial integrity and as such it looks like "Ahtisaari minus status" is the best that can happen for all concerned. Following on from that I think you will find that your leaderhip will be fueding between yourselves but no one will be willing to step out of the US determined line!!! Get ready for EUMIK overseeing the implementaion of Ahtisaari in the Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija.

Aleksandër,

I read that article yesterday. Very interesting and very well written. However, it raises two points that I don't think you considered:

1. It certainly doesn't argue that K-Albanians are in any better position to govern Kosovo. It mentions Serb mismanagement, but it certainly doesn't cast the region in any productive light, especially for the likes of the people you elected to run it.

2. This is a great sign that dissention and non-conformity with ideas and symbols can and does exist in Serbia. It's called freedom on speech, and it's a fundamental tenet of democracy. Could you produce an Albanian journalist who doesn't toe the official line in Pristina and doesn't live like a pariah? Last time I looked, you guys are having a hard time trying to keep people testifying against Haradinaj alive.

Princip,

You didn't disappoint me as I know exactely how you feel. It would be difficult for some Serbs to accept the new reality in Kosova and that is nothing less that full independence from Serbia. It will take some time for Serbs to come to terms with that reality, some of them might be thinking leaving the province soon after the recognition of the independence of Kosova, but many Serbs will be back to Kosova as they will realise that their leaders have mislead them all the time in their names. The independent Kosova hopefully under the United Nations resolution and EU supervision will garantee the safe and peaceful return of other desplaced people. That is something that the Albanian majority have adhered to cooperate with the international community. That is their commitment to supporting Ahtisari Plan. Regarding the article in "The Economist" it is all about the way how you read the article and your desire to take things out of context is unhelpful and proves ones again your desperation and others who think like you. In any case it doesnt do any good to you and those innocent Serbian people who really want to live in Kosova. While reading the article you are missing the point by failing to see the woods for the trees, and still having illusions about the true facts. If you read my comments carefully you will see that I genuinely intend to encourage both Albanian and Serbs in Kosova to live to the new realities together and change the Balkan mentality in solving their historic problems. To summirise Kosova should be independent because of its historic merits, brutal treatment that Kosovar Albanians suffered from the Serbian state, NATO intervention to stop the ethnic cleansing, it is a unique case and de facto Kosova has been independent since more almost a decade now. That would be a very good lesson for those dictators and countries who support them that oppression towards your "own" people will make them lose their country.

Prinicp

Lets say hypotheticaly that that does happen i.e. Plan C 'Ahtisaari minus status' to be review in a year or two!

What do you think is going to happen in a year or two? Do you think albanians will just forget about independence?

It hasn't happend for the last 8 years (and more) its not going to happend in a year or two. All thats going to happend is prolong the suspense, tensions and misery of Kosovan residents. And still albanisn and serbs will never agree even if negotiations go on for another 10 years!

But I suppose prologning the misery of K albanians (and serbs) would make some people happy here!

All this is irrelevant, since there won't be a stupid illogiccal resolution like that, since the whole point of the resolution is to determine the status!

"The time for further talks has run out. Those who allegedly are for further "talks" are looking for excuses to destabilize the whole region. It is very clear for those who want to see that the parties involved Kosovar Albanians and Serbs have totally different views regarding the status of the province. The Albanians want the full independence from Serbia and the Serbs want to have still the sovereignty over Kosova."(EA, Friday, 11 May, 2007, 11:45)
EA, while it may be appropriate for you to speak on behalf of the Ghegs in Kosovo (Assuming you are Gheg), I do not believe you understand the Serbian viewpoint well enough to represent our needs and wishes. While it would be helpful for your cause if all Serbs only wanted continued sovereignty and nothing else, the fact is many if not most Serbs would be willing to consider a compromise solution such as partition. Many Ghegs have also expressed support for such a situation, and when you include Presevo into the equation, you have strong support among the Gheg population. Even some of the most extreme on this website have grudgingly acknowledged that this scenario would be acceptable to them if it were to include Presevo.
Even China is now becoming very vocal for continued discussion on the topic.
"China's deputy U.N. ambassador, Liu Zhenmin, called the Kosovo issue "a major challenge" for the council and said Beijing is prepared to work constructively to find a compromise solution.
"There is a need for all sides to reflect on the ways and means to promote reconciliation..., maintain the lasting peace and security in the Balkan region, and maintain integrity and authority of international law," he said.
"On this major issue, adequate patience, flexibility and caution are necessary and worthwhile."
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007May10/0,4670,UNKosovo,00.html

"Serbs in Kosova will have privileged guaranteed rights"(EA, Friday, 11 May, 2007, 11:45)
Please EA tell me which rights are actually guaranteed? Did you even bother to read Ahtisaari's proposal? The fact is nearly all these so called "guarantees" can be repealed with a simple majority vote of the seats in the assembly reserved for minorities, half of which go to non-Serbs. Please read paragraph 3.7 carefully and tell me what guarantees the Serbs truly have there. In addition, the rights and protections for the Serbs of Kosvo are far more limited then what the Republic of Srpska enjoys, that simply doesn't make sense.
"3.7 The following laws shall require for their adoption, amendment or repeal both the majority of the Assembly members present and voting and the majority of the Assembly members holding seats reserved or guaranteed for representatives of Communities that are not in the majority in Kosovo:
a. Laws changing municipal boundaries, establishing or abolishing municipalities, defining the scope of powers of municipalities and their participation in inter- municipal and cross-border relations;
b. Laws implementing the rights of Communities and their members, other than those set forth in the Constitution;
c. Laws on the use of language;
d. Laws on local elections;
e. Laws on the protection of cultural heritage;
f. Laws on religious freedom or on agreements with religious communities;
g. Laws on education;
h. Laws on the use of symbols (including Community symbols) and on public holidays."

Clearly the result of such a structure for the assembly will be that the other minorities in Kosovo will have enormous pressure put on them in order to curtail the existing protections for Serbians there. This much is obvious from the many negative comments coming from the Ghegs opposing the level of protections given to the Serbs under the current Ahtisaari proposal. Its only a matter of time until the attempt is made to repeal these.
My particular concern is for the Roma of Kosovo, who have traditionally suffered the greatest of any ethnicity in Kosovo. One look at the breakdown on the number of victims in Kosovo proves the Roma suffered by far the highest per capita percentage of their population. The Roma have no country of their own, yet have managed to strongly maintain their identity and culture over the years. Is it not time to discuss the creation of a homeland for them? If Kosovar Ghegs have earned the moral right to rule themselves as a result of human rights violations and the need for international intervention to protect them, would not the same exact argument apply to the Roma? Considering the Roma have no country to call their own, and much like the Jews they have faced genocide in the past, it is only fair that they have at least one country in which they can be safe and make decisions for themselves. I personally believe that both Serbia and Kosovo should contribute some territory for the creation of such a noble project. For too long the Roma have faced discrimination and oppression in Europe.

Shukri Gashi: "You serbs, especially you who have everything good there in serbia, please don't manipulate poor serbian people here in Kosova and let them live as they want."

The Serbs in Kosovo want to live in their own country that they have lived in for 90+ years. Now who is it that wants to deny them that?

Joe, though I doubt there will be any war and violence, if there is it will be something similar to 17 March 2004. If KFOR don't do anything to stop it then Serbia would be well within its rights to intervene. NATO would have a hard time trying to explain then any counter measures when it failed to stop the keep a lid on the situation in the first place. Especially as getting away with a demonisation campaign like they did in 1999 wouldn't wash a second time. And if the hits in 1999 weren't enough NATO can rebuild everything for a second time like it is still doing from 1999.

Well Joe, don't under estimate your thinking are you sure that NATO would be bombing Serbia? Do you think they will attack a member of the Partnership for peace? You had better study more about politics and Defense pacts. I am sure there will be no war. Without the Support of the US the used to be KLA would have no chance. Most of the fighting age men left Kosovo for Macedonia and other places so they did not have to fight the majority were mujhadeens and other soliders of fortune. but you had all the brave KLA fighters coming back from Blace and other refugee camps proclaming victory.

It is true that real negotiations did not take place - not because the Contact Group (including Russia and the US) and UN envoy didnt try, but because it is impossible to negotiate if one of the sides simply repeats over and over their position. Serbian negotiators refused to negotiate. Serbian people should hold responsible for this. And still Kostunica repeats the same thing over and over in the press on Kosovo - independence is unacceptable. That is not a negotiating position, that is an ultimatum. And in issuing that repeatedly, he only hurts the Kosovo Serbs who may lose the best plan they will ever see. And who will be blamed for that? The UN, the U.S. and the Contact Group (except Russia) - the very people who wrote the plan, and are on the ground doing their best to keep the peace now. Ironic. Balkan.

300+churches (some catholic but majority orthodox0 were destroyed during past 8 years, said BK.
My friend, I am K-Albanian catholic and living in Kosova, but I have never herd such thing about catholic churches and we Albanians never had religious problems, we are by nationality Albanians but we practise religion of our choice. Now this is true democracy and we do not mix religion with state.

EA, I would suggets with a few of your own words

"If you read my comments carefully you will see that I genuinely intend to encourage" all in Serbia "to live to the new realities together and change the Balkan mentality in solving their historic problems."

- I think this would be the best possible solution do you not? Or do you think a new found mentality would come about by creating new walls and borders between all the peoples of Serbia ???? If you do then I guess you do not see a EU future for an ILLEGAL entity that was founded upon Illegal declarations and against International law and UN Resolutions!

Matthew,

I have mentioned in the past that I do not believe that partition of Serbia in any way or form is the best alternative but I do think it is an important alternative just as their might be many other alternatives. Only by real and substantive discussions and talks involving all the peoples can one discover the win-win solution which would be agreeable to all whom matter - trying to preclude such an outcome is denying lasting peace and against all rules of mediation. You are right to bring up the point that the Roma have been overlooked and it is another reason why real talks and negotiations should be held and that representatives of all ethnic groups should be able to represent themselves at a table with the governing leadership of Serbia at the helm. Ahtisaari has given no seconds thought for any other alternative other then his own pre-ordained (prejudiced) solution and has shown little respect of all & many ethnic minorities by ignoring all bar Serbs and ethnic-Albanians from this Serbian province - so much for "multi-ethnic" representation - maybe you are right to consider this point. I guess if partition did occur then one needs to consider all the ethnic groups not just ignore them because it makes the job of a so called "mediator" such as Ahtisaari easier - he took 15 years to solve Namibia so he should be a bit wiser now to allow for the real talks that must occuer if he is genuine about lasting peace and bringing stability to the region! Surely this is just another flaw in the Ahtisaari plan since it is not repective of all the ethnic groups (Roma, Gorani, Askali, Bosniak etc.. and even the jewish who were all evicted in 1999) - all of whom should be respected in terms of language, religion and self governing regions. Morover, the plan should be based on the situation as it was in 1999 not on the convienence of appeasing ethnic cleansing Albanians and the areas of self governing should respect that situation before 1999 - see the distribution maps for Serb populated areas;
http://www.alternativeinsight.com/KOSOVO1999.jpeg
Also for both Roma and Serbs.
http://www.csdbalkans.org/roma/Photos/Kosovo_minorities_1991_census.jpg

When you look at the map it is hard to suggest partition without disturbing anyone but if the West is determined in partitioning a UN recognised state then they really need to understand the consequences globally that such a precedent will set NATO intervention or not there is nothing unique to Kosovo & Metohija.

Matthew,

I appreciate your comments in here and without prejudging your intentions, there are few points that I would like to clarify to you. I am originally from Tirana and a UK resident. You seem to be one of those partisans whom advocate the partition of Kosova as a compromise solution. That would mean asking for redrawing the borders in the Balkans. I beleive that you would agree how complicated that would be especially when you are talking about partitions based on ethnic lines. That would destibilise Macedonia first and other countries in the region. I can tell you for certain that Albania Kosova and Macedonia are looking forward to their future in Europe and we believe in co-existence in a Europe without borders. I did mention in my earlier comment that "Serbs in Kosova will have priviledged garanteed rights" but you missed an important point there because I was refering to the future rights upon the application of President Ahtisari plan should it be endorsed by United Nation Security Council. I invite you to read my previous comment again. The future independent Kosova should be a functional one like in any normal European democratic country. It would not be acceptable that a small minority is given the right to block the normal function of an entire country and in our case Kosova. I am afraid to say but you are also confusing two different realities when referring by comparison the rights of Serbs in Republic of Srpska rights and the Serbian minority in Kosova. It would be much more realistic to recognise the same rights to the Albanians in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegje as the rights enjoyed by Serbian minority in Kosova. That would lead to an historical agreement between the two nations Albanian and Serb.

Ana Wrote:

"Kostunica repeats the same thing over and over in the press on Kosovo - independence is unacceptable. That is not a negotiating position, that is an ultimatum. And in issuing that repeatedly, he only hurts the Kosovo Serbs who may lose the best plan they will ever see."

The truth is that the Serbs already have a better plan in UNSC Resolution 1244, which confirms that Kosovo is part of Serbia and guarrantees protection for the Serb Civillians, their churches & monuments, property rights, and the right of refugee return. Despite the fact that UNSC 1244 was approved by the UN Security Council,those contries responsible for implementing it have failed miserbly: Namely USA, UK,Germany, and the other non-Russian members of the contact group whom you mentioned.

The truthi is this:
Over the past 15 years western contries like USA, UK, Germany,France, and others who advocate "kosovar independence" have:

1. bombed Serbian Civillians in 3 seperate contries (Serbia-Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia)

2. aided and abetted Islamic terrorists targetting Serbs in Kosovo and Bosnia.

3. failed to protect Serb Life, Property, Culture, & religious freedom in Kosmet over the past 8 yrs., despite approving UNSC 1244 which specifically obligates them to do so.

4. have violated the terms of every agreement they've made with Serbia, despite the fact that Serbia has honored every agreement made with these nations to the letter.

5. continue to insist on collectively blame in all of Serbia for genocide in the Balkans, despie the fact that the ICJ recently exhonerated Serbia of all genocide charges in Bosnia, charges, and that the alledged "genocide" of albanians in Kosovo which never actually happened.

Given these facts, Kostunica is absolutely right not to trust the Ahtisassari, USA, Nato, and especially not the Albanians, all of whom have long since proven that their words and guarrantees are meaningless. I absolutely support the Legal and Principled stance of Serbia, Russia, China, Indonesia, Slovakia and others who are rejecting Ahtisarri's worthless plan, and insisting on the full implementation of UNSC resolution 1244, which guarantees Serbia's territorial integrity and soveirnty over Kosovo i Metohia.

I had a very quick scan through some comments on this page and I just had to say something.


Princip – stop fantasising! There will be no “Ahtisaari minus status”, no matter how many times you repeat it!

Matthew – Maybe I’m just not very clever but from what I know Gheg is a northern Albanian dialect. I really don’t understand what the dialect has to do with Kosovos solution.


The way I see it is that Kosovo was part of former Yugoslavia, just like Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia who are now all independent countries. Why shouldn’t Kosovo be? Yeah I know Kosovo legally never had the same status as these countries but just because Yugoslavia didn’t give Kosovo the same status it doesn’t mean Kosovo didn’t deserve it. A lot of mistakes have been done in the past that could have been prevented and now it’s a bit late and very difficult to get it fixed, so now the whole world has to get their hands dirty. But please don’t act as if Kosovos future will influence the whole world. Where was Russia when the other former Yugoslavian countries declared independence? And also I don’t think Serbia is in the position to say whether Kosovos independence is legal or not, considering the fact that Serbia tried to ethnically cleans Kosovo of its majority population.

From what I have read Albanians do not deserve independence, bc they have proven time and time again they they are not competent enough to govern Kosovo even with UN and NATO supervision. However Serbia has mad great strides to satisfy the West. Though ALL (serbian and albanian) of the civilians of Kosovo have lived through atrocities Kosovo will just become the Wests playground as it is today. Kosovo should not get independence if the Kurds cannot. there has to be a standard in the world not just double standards and hypocrisy . Independence will further ruin Serb-Albanian relations and will leave scars which cannot heal thus there has so be a compromise. If Europe is headed towards unification then it has to start with Serbs and Albanians unifying and finding a middle ground, western quick decisions will not keep the region stable because historical conflict like this do not and have not gone away.

I would say it is in every ones interest for Kosovo to be independent. Both Serbs and Albanians would profit from it. Both countries would end up in the EU and everybody would be happy. And precisely because both countries will be in the EU some time soon I don’t think Russia should get involved. They should worry about their own internal problems, whoops sorry yeah they are doing, from what I can see Russia is trying to get some kind of deal from the western countries out of Kosovo. I guess the West doesn’t want to play ball hm!?

One has to feel sorry for Serbia and its people. They have indeed suffered a lot in the last 15 years. One would think people learn from their mistakes, but obviously not. Still they are voting for the same people who have the same crazy ideas.

But hey it’s not all bad, at least Serbia won the Eurovision Song Contest. That’s a victory to celebrated right? WRONG! Serbs only celebrate loses like the battle of 1389!!!?!?

Sorry for all the sarcastic comments but it is really sad to see the peoples of Serbia suffering just because Serbias leaders have their own (very unrealistic) ideas.

I have to say that anyone who suggests that Serbs should just accept a part of their country being ripped away has got to be seriously out of their minds. Giving a piece of their own country away should not be a bases for joining the EU. I just can't believe how some people don't see the hypocrasy of this whole thing. Also, I can't believe how Albanians on here take pride on having support from the Americans.. where the hell have you been lately?

“It would be much more realistic to recognise the same rights to the Albanians in Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegje as the rights enjoyed by Serbian minority in Kosova. That would lead to an historical agreement between the two nations Albanian and Serb.”

Yes, I agree about the treatment and rights for minorities. I would go further for Presevo et all and grant them independence as well, if they so chose to do so.

“I was refering to the future rights upon the application of President Ahtisari plan should it be endorsed by United Nation Security Council”

So was I, I quoted paragraph 3.7 of Annex 1 or 2, I forget which one. Its incredibly dangerous for the future relations between minorities there.

In Bosnia, Serbs were given a sort of autonomy, almost a country within a country, probably similar to what Kostunica would grant Albanians in Kosovo. No one can seriously deny that Serbs at times have also been oppressed when they found themselves in the minority in Kosovo. 2004 is the most recent example, WWII was probably one of the more severe incidents in the modern age. So yeah, at the very least if Kosovo were granted independence they should have at least the level of protection they enjoy in Bosnia.

“You seem to be one of those partisans whom advocate the partition of Kosova as a compromise solution. That would mean asking for redrawing the borders in the Balkans. I beleive that you would agree how complicated that would be especially when you are talking about partitions based on ethnic lines. That would destibilise Macedonia first and other countries in the region.”

I agree the risk of destabilization is great in a partition plan. However, it if were done in a peaceful and agreed upon manner without the use of violence it would set a valuable precedent for dealing with such issues in the future in the region. The fact is, granting Kosovo independence is just as likely to fuel further destabilization as partition. If you are worried about further calls for Albanian independence then obviously the solution which discourages that the most is to keep Kosovo as a part of Serbia.

Partition is the obvious solution with the best protections for both Serbians and Ghegs. Ahtisaari’s proposal is facing a seriously uphill battle. If Kosovo is unilaterally recognized, I’m sure Russia will follow suit and recognize the Serbian areas. I do hope that partition is done in a negotiated fashion. This is the best way forward and would show the international community that both Serbian and Albanian leaders can act in a responsible and mature manner.