26

Thursday, 03.05.2007.

10:25

Verbeke briefs UN Security Council

UN Kosovo fact-finding mission chief Belgium’s Johan Verbeke briefed the Security Council on the visit Wednesday.

Izvor: Beta

Verbeke briefs UN Security Council IMAGE SOURCE
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26 Komentari

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Dane

pre 17 godina

Zoran, Milan, Ratko, Kate, Princip, Brian, Lawyer and the others with similar statements

Ideas you present and promote are certain reasons why Kosovo must be and de facto is independent.
All your statements lead to an conclusion that Serbs are heavenly and angelic people and all the rest are not worth even to live... You are wrong and don't confuse your Serbian brothers living in Kosovo... They seem to have good perspective there...

George

pre 17 godina

A comment about Trepca mines: people, the area is so poluted that looks like a second Chernobyl! I am working currently in Kosovo, in Mitrovice/a, and you get sick only by looking at the waste&leftovers from digging... I tell you, this is an ecological catastrophe, we had something like this in Romania, only limited (we do not have such big surface exploatation, mostly underground mines)and they were shut down! Forget about digging there, it will require so much money for cleaning that will be totally ineficient economically... If this would be a good investment, then would have been already used as such, even by UN Mission. But I am afraid all potential investors are looking more to the scrap metal they could take out and sell, make some easy money and then leave for good! This also happened in my country, more than once.

JHam

pre 17 godina

How much tax money will Kosovo recieve from those mines? Answer Zero because the legal fighting and disagreements will not produce anything for at least 10 years, those minds have been sold and bought no one knows who owns what. Now if there is a partition then oh boy there will be problems. Do you think for a second that Serbia will allow presevo to go Yeah right whatever you guys are smoking you need to send me some of it. Be happy with Kosovo and live on. Trepca is not going to be the savior of kosovo. If there are any mineral left you won't be able to mine anyway you want EU rules state certain guidelines to do things and that will make it more expensive to do and foreign companies won't spend money when they cannot make money. See what China did to albania, mined all of the minerals and left them with nothing. Kosovo will be the same way. You ask for independence to be free to do what you want well since you want to hook up with the EU things will be different. No more power unless you pay, there will be less human and drug trafficking. That is going to cut the illegal profits. So wake Kosovo and smell the coffee independence is going to be more expensive than what you wish for.

ilir

pre 17 godina

Ratko,
You are the exact reason why Kosovo SHOULD be independent. This is the language Milosevic used: albanians are immigrants. Croats are ustasha, bosnians are turks. So? Only serbs are here the choosen people? Like the germans for example during WWII?
Serbs like all the other slavic nomade populations came in the Balkans in the 7-th century. What they found here were the greeks united in a state, and the illyrians divided in many states. Albans were one of the illyrian tribes, like ancient greeks testimony (Herodotus, Ptolemeus).

Brian

pre 17 godina

Serbs south of Ibar river would leave to North of the Ibar or to Serbia proper but North of the Ibar would probably declare itself part of Serbia.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

There is no need to discuss partition if a win win solution can be the overriding concept for the talks that are now nevitable given that plan A-htisaari is finished!

New and substantive talks wil be held under a new found understanding that all alternatives must be explored and discussed to find a lasting and stable solution

Looks like there will be no indpendence!!!

PB

pre 17 godina

Ahmet Sufi - Mention of Trepca mines was in response to Toni.

The trepca mines are a much bigger issue for the albanians than the Serbs. They can't live within Serbia with Serbs, yet insist on no partition of Kosovo on ethnic lines. So, if you can't live with Serbs in Serbia, why do you think you can live with Serbs in Kosovo? what's the difference? The answer is the Trepca mines. you'll have to learn to live without them and find some other means of economic support for your economy. why not ask your ally - the USA. see how good a friend they are and if they'll give you some money.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

"I might be one of the few Albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning. (toni, Thursday, 3 May, 2007, 12:14)"
Toni, I am extremely pleased to have a rational discussion of the issues, and I think you hit the nail on the head with your concerns. I also know that there are other Albanians open to the idea of partition.
I see it playing out one of two ways.
Either partition happens in accordance to the reality on the ground at this time. Either as a result of unilateral recognition or simply a result of being unwilling to compromise with each other.
However the best case would be based on compromise and negotiation.
As a Serb, I actually agree with you that Kosovo should have Trepca, I think you need it for your economic stability. I also believe it would be better for your people to have Presevo et all.
However, I also believe that in exchange for these compromises that Serbia must get in exchange something that allows us to feel that we still hold onto to our historical sites that represent the very cradle of our civilization.
If this can be done, it might mean lasting peace between our two peoples.

Mike

pre 17 godina

There is no solution that will make everyone happy. Serbs and Albanians are going to have to make sacrificed in order for an outcome to manifest.

1. Clearly demarcate which municipalities will be Serbian. All Serb communities outside those municipalities will probably move there for protection. 3 north of Ibar, which will practically be Serbia, another at Gracanica, another at Strpce, and the last possibly in either Obilic or Vucitrn. Other places like the 400 member neighborhood in Orahovac will probably empty. Prizren is gone, so is Pec.

2. Clearly demarcate autonomous territory around key Serb monasteries like Pec and Decani. The regions are overwhelmingly Albanian, but the churches are off limits. Let's be honest, that's what Belgrade really wants to protect.

3. Give sweeping degrees of local self government to these municipalities with parallel institutions from Belgrade for civic, educational, and financial links. Provide similar links between Presevo and Pristina.

4. Give the rest to Pristina. Population exchange, bittersweet feelings for a year or so, but it's over and done with.

kate

pre 17 godina

Agim - I know exactly where Decani is, thank you. There would have to be some some of land corridor in the scenario of a divided Kosovo. But I hope that there will be no division and that Kosovo will rightfully and legally remain part of Serbia.

Ratko

pre 17 godina

Suzna are you for real???

What kind of a comment is that?

Did you know that albanians are immigrants to KiM?

albanians are in no right to be asked about the outcome of KiM. It is america that is the problem. Always messing with other countires' internal affairs.

Milan

pre 17 godina

actually serbs make up 70%, kosovo is part of serbia isn't it not? so just because a few towns have a majority of others doesnt make it right saying serbs make 5%. lets go to other countries and use that same logic. technically republika srpska should be part of serbia or its own country then right? its 90% serbian.

Zoran

pre 17 godina

The Serbs in SERBIAN KOSOVO are the MAJORITY, since Kosovo is SERBIA & always has been (it was never part of Albania)! The Albanians can stay in SERBIAN KOSOVO provided that they respect the laws & don't attack the MAJORITY SERBS or their police or launch attacks across the border from Albania like the KLA did in the 90's that started this mess in the first place. The arrogance & audacidy of some commentators to twist the truth around is astonishing to me. How can Serbs be a minority in their own country? Presevo Valley is also SERBIA and is not going to get independence so stop your LAND GRABBING & worry about your own country that is in chaos, it's called Albania. Soon the Albanians will be calling northern Greece, Macedonia, & Montenegro by some other name and call the Greeks minorities.

EA

pre 17 godina

The appetite for Kosova partition is growing here. Come down guys! Thanks to Russians unhelpful stance on the issue we are having these discussion. Everyone knows the Russian simpathies for their Serbians slavic brothers. The partion based on ethic grounds is counter productive as it goes against the new realities in Europe. The would mean redrawing the borders in the Balkans, of Macedonia where more than 1/3 of the populations are Albanians, of Montenegro and Serbia (Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegje and Vojvodina). That is not a realisitc option. Kosova being independent is real and at present is under UN jurisdiction. Serbia has not control whatsoever in Kosova. You should know that by now guys. Serbian minority and other minorities in Kosova have been given assurances that their rights will be respected as every citizen of Kosova. All they have to do is do their duties as citizens of Kosova. The international community will be there to assure that happens.

Agim Elshani

pre 17 godina

Can anybody show Kate where Decani is located, becasue it seems to me that she has no clue.
Back to the article: VREBEK said soem intersting thing but in order to understand what he meant you have to be able to read between the lines.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

Based on coment coming from serb camp onn this article, everything it boils down to Trepca mines. You see I have told you so again. There is no such a thing as serbina craddle or orthodox churches but only the wealth and nothing esle. thanks guys for revealing the truth , and you ahve don it with anybody's help.We Albanians knew this all along that serbia is after the underground wealth and nothing else.

laki bani

pre 17 godina

Eureka, Mr. Curkin has found out the fact that Serbians and Albanians are not living together, and fear and uncertainty are still present in Kosovo! Apart of a few Serbian’s proclamations nothing else is relevant for up mentioned ambassador. No matter if those Serbs might be smuggled by …. in aim to obscure whole picture with all possible means.
Mr. Curkin refers only to that part, leaving aside the Delegation’s appreciation to the achievements such as development of all mechanisms of a stabile society, and crime reduction to the minimum etc. This Albanian’s commitment and willingness for multi-ethnic society must not be underestimated taking into consideration up mentioned by Belgium ambassador to the UN; that Kosovo’s society is still recovering from the wounds suffered by the conflict. It is more than obvious that Mr. Curkin would rather jump over that fact. Because it opposes his “truth” and vision (no matter what is).
International Community should be more resolute to the newest bluff over the fate of displaced people during the conflict. Everyone must return to his ground but in any case should the use of return use as a political goal.
Of course, I am not in position as an ordinary citizen to know all details about the delegation’s visit, but I was not in position to read or find out whether Mr. Curkin has paid a visit to at least those in Gjakovё who buried their beloved just returned in plastic bags from mass graves in Serbia at the same time of the delegation’s visit.
In the end; what is your opinion for the Krusha’s orphans?

PB

pre 17 godina

Partition Kosovo with the north going to the Serbs, including the Trepca mines. totally unrealistic to think that the albanians can have presevo valley as well. they can keep the southern half of kosovo and that's ALL.

They talk about persecution and the fact that Serbiahas no moral right to run Kosovo anymore. Fine, but since when were the Albanians in presevo valley persecuted? never, so a land swap is out of the question. as for Trepca mines, these are in the Serbina part of Kosovo and as such should stay in serbina control. if the albaninas have no economic assets then that is just tough.

The idea that presevo should be exchanged for allowing northern Kosovo to stay within serbian territory shows the albanian hand for what it truly is .i.e. nothing to do with milosevic's persecution, which they claim as the reason why they should be allowed self determination, but a land grab, a greater albania as evidenced by the desire to annex presevo valley which is part of serbia and was never involved in fighting with the serb army. this is also the reason why the serb part of kosovo should be allowed to break away if kosovo is granted independence. the albanians cite moral grounds as reason for independence - fine, but only the albanin part of kosovo should be allowed to break away then as the serbian part was not "persecuted" and as such should not be included as a part of Kosovo.

toni

pre 17 godina

iowe

The problem is that International community is worried that parition will encourage others in Bosnia , Macedonia etc.

I might be one of the few albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning.

I think that when Kosovo gets independence, which it will, K Serbs, especially the ones in the north are going to do anything to disrupt the economic and political develpoment of Kosovo as a country. They will not participate in institutions or public live of Kosovo and they will constantly complain about 'mistreatment'.

I simply do not see Kosovo as a unified entity with both serbs in the north, and albanians living in perfect harmony in the next 10 years.

Maybe if north is given to Serbia excluding Trepca which is important for economic survival (even if it is sold to foreign ivestors, Kosovo will still get tax revenues from them), in return for Presevo valley, and immidiate unconditional independence, and recognition by UN, other internation organisation, and Serbia etc.

The simple fact is that ethnic structure in Kosovo has changed, and there are not many albanians living in the north of Iber any more. And there is no point and benefits in trying to force K serbs in the north to remain part of independent Kosovo if they don't want to, especially if we consider the excess 'baggage' they bring. The Kosovo goverment is going to have to spend loads of money on trying to make serbs in the north feel welcome, guarantee their safety, try and develop economy in serb areas etc etc. This will be wasted money since serbs will refuse to participate and they will continue complaining about 'mistreatment' 'discrimination' blah blah. That money could be better spent on developing the rest of Kosovo where the resident would be grateful.

The serbs in the south of Iber would either have to accept living in independent Kosovo or move.

Suzana

pre 17 godina

Serbs in Kosovo are a minority and they have and should understand that they can not have as much power as K- Albanians. Serbs constitute only 5 % of the population and unlike other minorities (Gypsies. Turks, Bosnjkas) the only thing they can is to complain and offend their fellow Albanians with hate speech. If they want more rights they have to be part of the parliament and accept they are a minority. But no… Milosevic learned them to treat Albanians like animals and now they can not accept the new democratic reality in Kosovo where Albanians rule. Churkin during his visit to Kosovo refused to meet with other non- Serb minorities after he learned they would support independence for Kosovo.

Serbs in Kosovo are welcome to stay but if the can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority they will have to leave Kosovo (no one will force them but they are saying we can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority) since Kosovo in the future will continue to be predominantly Albanian.

Forget about Decani!!! 1991: 97 % Albanians, today: 99 % Albanians.

Lawyer

pre 17 godina

The right to self-determination is UNIVERSAL.
"ALL PEOPLES HAVE RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION"
Why it should be any different for Kosovo Serbs?
Albanians are very good on banging about their rights but they tend to neglect the fact that the rights they claim are not exclusive to them, and certainly not proclaimed to fit them only.
If internal right to self-determination cannot be secured for Kosovo Serbs then external has to be secured.

tatiana stojkovic

pre 17 godina

thats the reality which the ambassadors have seen in the ground. albanian territories cradle only albanians same is true with serbians. they did not see any albanian establishment such as cafe bars, shops in north mitrovica and gracanica and they did not see any serbian markets in pristina. this only means that albanians and serbians continue to live separate ways. the multi ethnicity objective is ZERO and may never happen.

kate

pre 17 godina

Iowe - I do agree with that assessment, although I don't believe in principle that any of Serbian territory should be annexed. It is probably the only viable solution BUT there would need to be an arrangement for Decani to remain in Serbia.

lowe

pre 17 godina

Isn't it obvious? The Albanians don't want to live under Belgrade. The K-Serbs don't want to live under Pristina. They should therefore live apart -- partition -- if there is a need for population transfer, then so be it. Do it once and for all and henceforth everyone in Kosovo live in peace and without fear.

lowe

pre 17 godina

Isn't it obvious? The Albanians don't want to live under Belgrade. The K-Serbs don't want to live under Pristina. They should therefore live apart -- partition -- if there is a need for population transfer, then so be it. Do it once and for all and henceforth everyone in Kosovo live in peace and without fear.

kate

pre 17 godina

Iowe - I do agree with that assessment, although I don't believe in principle that any of Serbian territory should be annexed. It is probably the only viable solution BUT there would need to be an arrangement for Decani to remain in Serbia.

tatiana stojkovic

pre 17 godina

thats the reality which the ambassadors have seen in the ground. albanian territories cradle only albanians same is true with serbians. they did not see any albanian establishment such as cafe bars, shops in north mitrovica and gracanica and they did not see any serbian markets in pristina. this only means that albanians and serbians continue to live separate ways. the multi ethnicity objective is ZERO and may never happen.

toni

pre 17 godina

iowe

The problem is that International community is worried that parition will encourage others in Bosnia , Macedonia etc.

I might be one of the few albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning.

I think that when Kosovo gets independence, which it will, K Serbs, especially the ones in the north are going to do anything to disrupt the economic and political develpoment of Kosovo as a country. They will not participate in institutions or public live of Kosovo and they will constantly complain about 'mistreatment'.

I simply do not see Kosovo as a unified entity with both serbs in the north, and albanians living in perfect harmony in the next 10 years.

Maybe if north is given to Serbia excluding Trepca which is important for economic survival (even if it is sold to foreign ivestors, Kosovo will still get tax revenues from them), in return for Presevo valley, and immidiate unconditional independence, and recognition by UN, other internation organisation, and Serbia etc.

The simple fact is that ethnic structure in Kosovo has changed, and there are not many albanians living in the north of Iber any more. And there is no point and benefits in trying to force K serbs in the north to remain part of independent Kosovo if they don't want to, especially if we consider the excess 'baggage' they bring. The Kosovo goverment is going to have to spend loads of money on trying to make serbs in the north feel welcome, guarantee their safety, try and develop economy in serb areas etc etc. This will be wasted money since serbs will refuse to participate and they will continue complaining about 'mistreatment' 'discrimination' blah blah. That money could be better spent on developing the rest of Kosovo where the resident would be grateful.

The serbs in the south of Iber would either have to accept living in independent Kosovo or move.

Lawyer

pre 17 godina

The right to self-determination is UNIVERSAL.
"ALL PEOPLES HAVE RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION"
Why it should be any different for Kosovo Serbs?
Albanians are very good on banging about their rights but they tend to neglect the fact that the rights they claim are not exclusive to them, and certainly not proclaimed to fit them only.
If internal right to self-determination cannot be secured for Kosovo Serbs then external has to be secured.

Suzana

pre 17 godina

Serbs in Kosovo are a minority and they have and should understand that they can not have as much power as K- Albanians. Serbs constitute only 5 % of the population and unlike other minorities (Gypsies. Turks, Bosnjkas) the only thing they can is to complain and offend their fellow Albanians with hate speech. If they want more rights they have to be part of the parliament and accept they are a minority. But no… Milosevic learned them to treat Albanians like animals and now they can not accept the new democratic reality in Kosovo where Albanians rule. Churkin during his visit to Kosovo refused to meet with other non- Serb minorities after he learned they would support independence for Kosovo.

Serbs in Kosovo are welcome to stay but if the can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority they will have to leave Kosovo (no one will force them but they are saying we can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority) since Kosovo in the future will continue to be predominantly Albanian.

Forget about Decani!!! 1991: 97 % Albanians, today: 99 % Albanians.

laki bani

pre 17 godina

Eureka, Mr. Curkin has found out the fact that Serbians and Albanians are not living together, and fear and uncertainty are still present in Kosovo! Apart of a few Serbian’s proclamations nothing else is relevant for up mentioned ambassador. No matter if those Serbs might be smuggled by …. in aim to obscure whole picture with all possible means.
Mr. Curkin refers only to that part, leaving aside the Delegation’s appreciation to the achievements such as development of all mechanisms of a stabile society, and crime reduction to the minimum etc. This Albanian’s commitment and willingness for multi-ethnic society must not be underestimated taking into consideration up mentioned by Belgium ambassador to the UN; that Kosovo’s society is still recovering from the wounds suffered by the conflict. It is more than obvious that Mr. Curkin would rather jump over that fact. Because it opposes his “truth” and vision (no matter what is).
International Community should be more resolute to the newest bluff over the fate of displaced people during the conflict. Everyone must return to his ground but in any case should the use of return use as a political goal.
Of course, I am not in position as an ordinary citizen to know all details about the delegation’s visit, but I was not in position to read or find out whether Mr. Curkin has paid a visit to at least those in Gjakovё who buried their beloved just returned in plastic bags from mass graves in Serbia at the same time of the delegation’s visit.
In the end; what is your opinion for the Krusha’s orphans?

PB

pre 17 godina

Partition Kosovo with the north going to the Serbs, including the Trepca mines. totally unrealistic to think that the albanians can have presevo valley as well. they can keep the southern half of kosovo and that's ALL.

They talk about persecution and the fact that Serbiahas no moral right to run Kosovo anymore. Fine, but since when were the Albanians in presevo valley persecuted? never, so a land swap is out of the question. as for Trepca mines, these are in the Serbina part of Kosovo and as such should stay in serbina control. if the albaninas have no economic assets then that is just tough.

The idea that presevo should be exchanged for allowing northern Kosovo to stay within serbian territory shows the albanian hand for what it truly is .i.e. nothing to do with milosevic's persecution, which they claim as the reason why they should be allowed self determination, but a land grab, a greater albania as evidenced by the desire to annex presevo valley which is part of serbia and was never involved in fighting with the serb army. this is also the reason why the serb part of kosovo should be allowed to break away if kosovo is granted independence. the albanians cite moral grounds as reason for independence - fine, but only the albanin part of kosovo should be allowed to break away then as the serbian part was not "persecuted" and as such should not be included as a part of Kosovo.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

Based on coment coming from serb camp onn this article, everything it boils down to Trepca mines. You see I have told you so again. There is no such a thing as serbina craddle or orthodox churches but only the wealth and nothing esle. thanks guys for revealing the truth , and you ahve don it with anybody's help.We Albanians knew this all along that serbia is after the underground wealth and nothing else.

Agim Elshani

pre 17 godina

Can anybody show Kate where Decani is located, becasue it seems to me that she has no clue.
Back to the article: VREBEK said soem intersting thing but in order to understand what he meant you have to be able to read between the lines.

EA

pre 17 godina

The appetite for Kosova partition is growing here. Come down guys! Thanks to Russians unhelpful stance on the issue we are having these discussion. Everyone knows the Russian simpathies for their Serbians slavic brothers. The partion based on ethic grounds is counter productive as it goes against the new realities in Europe. The would mean redrawing the borders in the Balkans, of Macedonia where more than 1/3 of the populations are Albanians, of Montenegro and Serbia (Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegje and Vojvodina). That is not a realisitc option. Kosova being independent is real and at present is under UN jurisdiction. Serbia has not control whatsoever in Kosova. You should know that by now guys. Serbian minority and other minorities in Kosova have been given assurances that their rights will be respected as every citizen of Kosova. All they have to do is do their duties as citizens of Kosova. The international community will be there to assure that happens.

Zoran

pre 17 godina

The Serbs in SERBIAN KOSOVO are the MAJORITY, since Kosovo is SERBIA & always has been (it was never part of Albania)! The Albanians can stay in SERBIAN KOSOVO provided that they respect the laws & don't attack the MAJORITY SERBS or their police or launch attacks across the border from Albania like the KLA did in the 90's that started this mess in the first place. The arrogance & audacidy of some commentators to twist the truth around is astonishing to me. How can Serbs be a minority in their own country? Presevo Valley is also SERBIA and is not going to get independence so stop your LAND GRABBING & worry about your own country that is in chaos, it's called Albania. Soon the Albanians will be calling northern Greece, Macedonia, & Montenegro by some other name and call the Greeks minorities.

Milan

pre 17 godina

actually serbs make up 70%, kosovo is part of serbia isn't it not? so just because a few towns have a majority of others doesnt make it right saying serbs make 5%. lets go to other countries and use that same logic. technically republika srpska should be part of serbia or its own country then right? its 90% serbian.

Ratko

pre 17 godina

Suzna are you for real???

What kind of a comment is that?

Did you know that albanians are immigrants to KiM?

albanians are in no right to be asked about the outcome of KiM. It is america that is the problem. Always messing with other countires' internal affairs.

kate

pre 17 godina

Agim - I know exactly where Decani is, thank you. There would have to be some some of land corridor in the scenario of a divided Kosovo. But I hope that there will be no division and that Kosovo will rightfully and legally remain part of Serbia.

PB

pre 17 godina

Ahmet Sufi - Mention of Trepca mines was in response to Toni.

The trepca mines are a much bigger issue for the albanians than the Serbs. They can't live within Serbia with Serbs, yet insist on no partition of Kosovo on ethnic lines. So, if you can't live with Serbs in Serbia, why do you think you can live with Serbs in Kosovo? what's the difference? The answer is the Trepca mines. you'll have to learn to live without them and find some other means of economic support for your economy. why not ask your ally - the USA. see how good a friend they are and if they'll give you some money.

Mike

pre 17 godina

There is no solution that will make everyone happy. Serbs and Albanians are going to have to make sacrificed in order for an outcome to manifest.

1. Clearly demarcate which municipalities will be Serbian. All Serb communities outside those municipalities will probably move there for protection. 3 north of Ibar, which will practically be Serbia, another at Gracanica, another at Strpce, and the last possibly in either Obilic or Vucitrn. Other places like the 400 member neighborhood in Orahovac will probably empty. Prizren is gone, so is Pec.

2. Clearly demarcate autonomous territory around key Serb monasteries like Pec and Decani. The regions are overwhelmingly Albanian, but the churches are off limits. Let's be honest, that's what Belgrade really wants to protect.

3. Give sweeping degrees of local self government to these municipalities with parallel institutions from Belgrade for civic, educational, and financial links. Provide similar links between Presevo and Pristina.

4. Give the rest to Pristina. Population exchange, bittersweet feelings for a year or so, but it's over and done with.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

"I might be one of the few Albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning. (toni, Thursday, 3 May, 2007, 12:14)"
Toni, I am extremely pleased to have a rational discussion of the issues, and I think you hit the nail on the head with your concerns. I also know that there are other Albanians open to the idea of partition.
I see it playing out one of two ways.
Either partition happens in accordance to the reality on the ground at this time. Either as a result of unilateral recognition or simply a result of being unwilling to compromise with each other.
However the best case would be based on compromise and negotiation.
As a Serb, I actually agree with you that Kosovo should have Trepca, I think you need it for your economic stability. I also believe it would be better for your people to have Presevo et all.
However, I also believe that in exchange for these compromises that Serbia must get in exchange something that allows us to feel that we still hold onto to our historical sites that represent the very cradle of our civilization.
If this can be done, it might mean lasting peace between our two peoples.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

There is no need to discuss partition if a win win solution can be the overriding concept for the talks that are now nevitable given that plan A-htisaari is finished!

New and substantive talks wil be held under a new found understanding that all alternatives must be explored and discussed to find a lasting and stable solution

Looks like there will be no indpendence!!!

Brian

pre 17 godina

Serbs south of Ibar river would leave to North of the Ibar or to Serbia proper but North of the Ibar would probably declare itself part of Serbia.

ilir

pre 17 godina

Ratko,
You are the exact reason why Kosovo SHOULD be independent. This is the language Milosevic used: albanians are immigrants. Croats are ustasha, bosnians are turks. So? Only serbs are here the choosen people? Like the germans for example during WWII?
Serbs like all the other slavic nomade populations came in the Balkans in the 7-th century. What they found here were the greeks united in a state, and the illyrians divided in many states. Albans were one of the illyrian tribes, like ancient greeks testimony (Herodotus, Ptolemeus).

JHam

pre 17 godina

How much tax money will Kosovo recieve from those mines? Answer Zero because the legal fighting and disagreements will not produce anything for at least 10 years, those minds have been sold and bought no one knows who owns what. Now if there is a partition then oh boy there will be problems. Do you think for a second that Serbia will allow presevo to go Yeah right whatever you guys are smoking you need to send me some of it. Be happy with Kosovo and live on. Trepca is not going to be the savior of kosovo. If there are any mineral left you won't be able to mine anyway you want EU rules state certain guidelines to do things and that will make it more expensive to do and foreign companies won't spend money when they cannot make money. See what China did to albania, mined all of the minerals and left them with nothing. Kosovo will be the same way. You ask for independence to be free to do what you want well since you want to hook up with the EU things will be different. No more power unless you pay, there will be less human and drug trafficking. That is going to cut the illegal profits. So wake Kosovo and smell the coffee independence is going to be more expensive than what you wish for.

George

pre 17 godina

A comment about Trepca mines: people, the area is so poluted that looks like a second Chernobyl! I am working currently in Kosovo, in Mitrovice/a, and you get sick only by looking at the waste&leftovers from digging... I tell you, this is an ecological catastrophe, we had something like this in Romania, only limited (we do not have such big surface exploatation, mostly underground mines)and they were shut down! Forget about digging there, it will require so much money for cleaning that will be totally ineficient economically... If this would be a good investment, then would have been already used as such, even by UN Mission. But I am afraid all potential investors are looking more to the scrap metal they could take out and sell, make some easy money and then leave for good! This also happened in my country, more than once.

Dane

pre 17 godina

Zoran, Milan, Ratko, Kate, Princip, Brian, Lawyer and the others with similar statements

Ideas you present and promote are certain reasons why Kosovo must be and de facto is independent.
All your statements lead to an conclusion that Serbs are heavenly and angelic people and all the rest are not worth even to live... You are wrong and don't confuse your Serbian brothers living in Kosovo... They seem to have good perspective there...

lowe

pre 17 godina

Isn't it obvious? The Albanians don't want to live under Belgrade. The K-Serbs don't want to live under Pristina. They should therefore live apart -- partition -- if there is a need for population transfer, then so be it. Do it once and for all and henceforth everyone in Kosovo live in peace and without fear.

kate

pre 17 godina

Iowe - I do agree with that assessment, although I don't believe in principle that any of Serbian territory should be annexed. It is probably the only viable solution BUT there would need to be an arrangement for Decani to remain in Serbia.

tatiana stojkovic

pre 17 godina

thats the reality which the ambassadors have seen in the ground. albanian territories cradle only albanians same is true with serbians. they did not see any albanian establishment such as cafe bars, shops in north mitrovica and gracanica and they did not see any serbian markets in pristina. this only means that albanians and serbians continue to live separate ways. the multi ethnicity objective is ZERO and may never happen.

toni

pre 17 godina

iowe

The problem is that International community is worried that parition will encourage others in Bosnia , Macedonia etc.

I might be one of the few albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning.

I think that when Kosovo gets independence, which it will, K Serbs, especially the ones in the north are going to do anything to disrupt the economic and political develpoment of Kosovo as a country. They will not participate in institutions or public live of Kosovo and they will constantly complain about 'mistreatment'.

I simply do not see Kosovo as a unified entity with both serbs in the north, and albanians living in perfect harmony in the next 10 years.

Maybe if north is given to Serbia excluding Trepca which is important for economic survival (even if it is sold to foreign ivestors, Kosovo will still get tax revenues from them), in return for Presevo valley, and immidiate unconditional independence, and recognition by UN, other internation organisation, and Serbia etc.

The simple fact is that ethnic structure in Kosovo has changed, and there are not many albanians living in the north of Iber any more. And there is no point and benefits in trying to force K serbs in the north to remain part of independent Kosovo if they don't want to, especially if we consider the excess 'baggage' they bring. The Kosovo goverment is going to have to spend loads of money on trying to make serbs in the north feel welcome, guarantee their safety, try and develop economy in serb areas etc etc. This will be wasted money since serbs will refuse to participate and they will continue complaining about 'mistreatment' 'discrimination' blah blah. That money could be better spent on developing the rest of Kosovo where the resident would be grateful.

The serbs in the south of Iber would either have to accept living in independent Kosovo or move.

Lawyer

pre 17 godina

The right to self-determination is UNIVERSAL.
"ALL PEOPLES HAVE RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION"
Why it should be any different for Kosovo Serbs?
Albanians are very good on banging about their rights but they tend to neglect the fact that the rights they claim are not exclusive to them, and certainly not proclaimed to fit them only.
If internal right to self-determination cannot be secured for Kosovo Serbs then external has to be secured.

Suzana

pre 17 godina

Serbs in Kosovo are a minority and they have and should understand that they can not have as much power as K- Albanians. Serbs constitute only 5 % of the population and unlike other minorities (Gypsies. Turks, Bosnjkas) the only thing they can is to complain and offend their fellow Albanians with hate speech. If they want more rights they have to be part of the parliament and accept they are a minority. But no… Milosevic learned them to treat Albanians like animals and now they can not accept the new democratic reality in Kosovo where Albanians rule. Churkin during his visit to Kosovo refused to meet with other non- Serb minorities after he learned they would support independence for Kosovo.

Serbs in Kosovo are welcome to stay but if the can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority they will have to leave Kosovo (no one will force them but they are saying we can not live in a Kosovo where Albanians have majority) since Kosovo in the future will continue to be predominantly Albanian.

Forget about Decani!!! 1991: 97 % Albanians, today: 99 % Albanians.

laki bani

pre 17 godina

Eureka, Mr. Curkin has found out the fact that Serbians and Albanians are not living together, and fear and uncertainty are still present in Kosovo! Apart of a few Serbian’s proclamations nothing else is relevant for up mentioned ambassador. No matter if those Serbs might be smuggled by …. in aim to obscure whole picture with all possible means.
Mr. Curkin refers only to that part, leaving aside the Delegation’s appreciation to the achievements such as development of all mechanisms of a stabile society, and crime reduction to the minimum etc. This Albanian’s commitment and willingness for multi-ethnic society must not be underestimated taking into consideration up mentioned by Belgium ambassador to the UN; that Kosovo’s society is still recovering from the wounds suffered by the conflict. It is more than obvious that Mr. Curkin would rather jump over that fact. Because it opposes his “truth” and vision (no matter what is).
International Community should be more resolute to the newest bluff over the fate of displaced people during the conflict. Everyone must return to his ground but in any case should the use of return use as a political goal.
Of course, I am not in position as an ordinary citizen to know all details about the delegation’s visit, but I was not in position to read or find out whether Mr. Curkin has paid a visit to at least those in Gjakovё who buried their beloved just returned in plastic bags from mass graves in Serbia at the same time of the delegation’s visit.
In the end; what is your opinion for the Krusha’s orphans?

PB

pre 17 godina

Partition Kosovo with the north going to the Serbs, including the Trepca mines. totally unrealistic to think that the albanians can have presevo valley as well. they can keep the southern half of kosovo and that's ALL.

They talk about persecution and the fact that Serbiahas no moral right to run Kosovo anymore. Fine, but since when were the Albanians in presevo valley persecuted? never, so a land swap is out of the question. as for Trepca mines, these are in the Serbina part of Kosovo and as such should stay in serbina control. if the albaninas have no economic assets then that is just tough.

The idea that presevo should be exchanged for allowing northern Kosovo to stay within serbian territory shows the albanian hand for what it truly is .i.e. nothing to do with milosevic's persecution, which they claim as the reason why they should be allowed self determination, but a land grab, a greater albania as evidenced by the desire to annex presevo valley which is part of serbia and was never involved in fighting with the serb army. this is also the reason why the serb part of kosovo should be allowed to break away if kosovo is granted independence. the albanians cite moral grounds as reason for independence - fine, but only the albanin part of kosovo should be allowed to break away then as the serbian part was not "persecuted" and as such should not be included as a part of Kosovo.

Ahmet Isufi

pre 17 godina

Based on coment coming from serb camp onn this article, everything it boils down to Trepca mines. You see I have told you so again. There is no such a thing as serbina craddle or orthodox churches but only the wealth and nothing esle. thanks guys for revealing the truth , and you ahve don it with anybody's help.We Albanians knew this all along that serbia is after the underground wealth and nothing else.

Agim Elshani

pre 17 godina

Can anybody show Kate where Decani is located, becasue it seems to me that she has no clue.
Back to the article: VREBEK said soem intersting thing but in order to understand what he meant you have to be able to read between the lines.

EA

pre 17 godina

The appetite for Kosova partition is growing here. Come down guys! Thanks to Russians unhelpful stance on the issue we are having these discussion. Everyone knows the Russian simpathies for their Serbians slavic brothers. The partion based on ethic grounds is counter productive as it goes against the new realities in Europe. The would mean redrawing the borders in the Balkans, of Macedonia where more than 1/3 of the populations are Albanians, of Montenegro and Serbia (Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegje and Vojvodina). That is not a realisitc option. Kosova being independent is real and at present is under UN jurisdiction. Serbia has not control whatsoever in Kosova. You should know that by now guys. Serbian minority and other minorities in Kosova have been given assurances that their rights will be respected as every citizen of Kosova. All they have to do is do their duties as citizens of Kosova. The international community will be there to assure that happens.

Zoran

pre 17 godina

The Serbs in SERBIAN KOSOVO are the MAJORITY, since Kosovo is SERBIA & always has been (it was never part of Albania)! The Albanians can stay in SERBIAN KOSOVO provided that they respect the laws & don't attack the MAJORITY SERBS or their police or launch attacks across the border from Albania like the KLA did in the 90's that started this mess in the first place. The arrogance & audacidy of some commentators to twist the truth around is astonishing to me. How can Serbs be a minority in their own country? Presevo Valley is also SERBIA and is not going to get independence so stop your LAND GRABBING & worry about your own country that is in chaos, it's called Albania. Soon the Albanians will be calling northern Greece, Macedonia, & Montenegro by some other name and call the Greeks minorities.

Milan

pre 17 godina

actually serbs make up 70%, kosovo is part of serbia isn't it not? so just because a few towns have a majority of others doesnt make it right saying serbs make 5%. lets go to other countries and use that same logic. technically republika srpska should be part of serbia or its own country then right? its 90% serbian.

Ratko

pre 17 godina

Suzna are you for real???

What kind of a comment is that?

Did you know that albanians are immigrants to KiM?

albanians are in no right to be asked about the outcome of KiM. It is america that is the problem. Always messing with other countires' internal affairs.

kate

pre 17 godina

Agim - I know exactly where Decani is, thank you. There would have to be some some of land corridor in the scenario of a divided Kosovo. But I hope that there will be no division and that Kosovo will rightfully and legally remain part of Serbia.

PB

pre 17 godina

Ahmet Sufi - Mention of Trepca mines was in response to Toni.

The trepca mines are a much bigger issue for the albanians than the Serbs. They can't live within Serbia with Serbs, yet insist on no partition of Kosovo on ethnic lines. So, if you can't live with Serbs in Serbia, why do you think you can live with Serbs in Kosovo? what's the difference? The answer is the Trepca mines. you'll have to learn to live without them and find some other means of economic support for your economy. why not ask your ally - the USA. see how good a friend they are and if they'll give you some money.

Mike

pre 17 godina

There is no solution that will make everyone happy. Serbs and Albanians are going to have to make sacrificed in order for an outcome to manifest.

1. Clearly demarcate which municipalities will be Serbian. All Serb communities outside those municipalities will probably move there for protection. 3 north of Ibar, which will practically be Serbia, another at Gracanica, another at Strpce, and the last possibly in either Obilic or Vucitrn. Other places like the 400 member neighborhood in Orahovac will probably empty. Prizren is gone, so is Pec.

2. Clearly demarcate autonomous territory around key Serb monasteries like Pec and Decani. The regions are overwhelmingly Albanian, but the churches are off limits. Let's be honest, that's what Belgrade really wants to protect.

3. Give sweeping degrees of local self government to these municipalities with parallel institutions from Belgrade for civic, educational, and financial links. Provide similar links between Presevo and Pristina.

4. Give the rest to Pristina. Population exchange, bittersweet feelings for a year or so, but it's over and done with.

Matthew

pre 17 godina

"I might be one of the few Albanians that is not against the idea of partitioning. (toni, Thursday, 3 May, 2007, 12:14)"
Toni, I am extremely pleased to have a rational discussion of the issues, and I think you hit the nail on the head with your concerns. I also know that there are other Albanians open to the idea of partition.
I see it playing out one of two ways.
Either partition happens in accordance to the reality on the ground at this time. Either as a result of unilateral recognition or simply a result of being unwilling to compromise with each other.
However the best case would be based on compromise and negotiation.
As a Serb, I actually agree with you that Kosovo should have Trepca, I think you need it for your economic stability. I also believe it would be better for your people to have Presevo et all.
However, I also believe that in exchange for these compromises that Serbia must get in exchange something that allows us to feel that we still hold onto to our historical sites that represent the very cradle of our civilization.
If this can be done, it might mean lasting peace between our two peoples.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

There is no need to discuss partition if a win win solution can be the overriding concept for the talks that are now nevitable given that plan A-htisaari is finished!

New and substantive talks wil be held under a new found understanding that all alternatives must be explored and discussed to find a lasting and stable solution

Looks like there will be no indpendence!!!

Brian

pre 17 godina

Serbs south of Ibar river would leave to North of the Ibar or to Serbia proper but North of the Ibar would probably declare itself part of Serbia.

ilir

pre 17 godina

Ratko,
You are the exact reason why Kosovo SHOULD be independent. This is the language Milosevic used: albanians are immigrants. Croats are ustasha, bosnians are turks. So? Only serbs are here the choosen people? Like the germans for example during WWII?
Serbs like all the other slavic nomade populations came in the Balkans in the 7-th century. What they found here were the greeks united in a state, and the illyrians divided in many states. Albans were one of the illyrian tribes, like ancient greeks testimony (Herodotus, Ptolemeus).

JHam

pre 17 godina

How much tax money will Kosovo recieve from those mines? Answer Zero because the legal fighting and disagreements will not produce anything for at least 10 years, those minds have been sold and bought no one knows who owns what. Now if there is a partition then oh boy there will be problems. Do you think for a second that Serbia will allow presevo to go Yeah right whatever you guys are smoking you need to send me some of it. Be happy with Kosovo and live on. Trepca is not going to be the savior of kosovo. If there are any mineral left you won't be able to mine anyway you want EU rules state certain guidelines to do things and that will make it more expensive to do and foreign companies won't spend money when they cannot make money. See what China did to albania, mined all of the minerals and left them with nothing. Kosovo will be the same way. You ask for independence to be free to do what you want well since you want to hook up with the EU things will be different. No more power unless you pay, there will be less human and drug trafficking. That is going to cut the illegal profits. So wake Kosovo and smell the coffee independence is going to be more expensive than what you wish for.

George

pre 17 godina

A comment about Trepca mines: people, the area is so poluted that looks like a second Chernobyl! I am working currently in Kosovo, in Mitrovice/a, and you get sick only by looking at the waste&leftovers from digging... I tell you, this is an ecological catastrophe, we had something like this in Romania, only limited (we do not have such big surface exploatation, mostly underground mines)and they were shut down! Forget about digging there, it will require so much money for cleaning that will be totally ineficient economically... If this would be a good investment, then would have been already used as such, even by UN Mission. But I am afraid all potential investors are looking more to the scrap metal they could take out and sell, make some easy money and then leave for good! This also happened in my country, more than once.

Dane

pre 17 godina

Zoran, Milan, Ratko, Kate, Princip, Brian, Lawyer and the others with similar statements

Ideas you present and promote are certain reasons why Kosovo must be and de facto is independent.
All your statements lead to an conclusion that Serbs are heavenly and angelic people and all the rest are not worth even to live... You are wrong and don't confuse your Serbian brothers living in Kosovo... They seem to have good perspective there...