UN ambassadors meet Koštunica

This a 3 day visit wich means ,that americans are trying to please rusians with this visit for the outcome of this resolution and everybody knows that but someway-somehow is goig to please this politicians temporary

i would not be surprised when tadic & co will ask for another UN fact finding mission. doing everything to procrastinate the whole status process is the only hope for serbian authorities. this is when you loose all arguments. that's the way it is...

cheers,

Adi,

you are wrong - Serbia has said it does not wish to have one-sided solutions imposed - it wants to give diplomacy and real negotiations a chance. Ahtisaari himself says he never spent one second discussing any other alternatives possible - he had already deceided that his solution is the only one he would offer. That however, is not negotiation it is imposition!!! If the US & UK wish to push through this through and once more disregard diplomacy and talks then that is a shame but Serbia will maintain it's tsnace that a stable and lasting solution can only ever be found when all concerned agree through a negotiated settlement. Serbia wants to find a solution that is evident and Russia is upholding this reasonable and principled stance so unless the US & UK want to be shown for the duplicity of their actions they will need to ensure any resolution is based on International laws and principles - unless of course it says the future is bleak and a free for all who want to force things by the barrel of a gun.

"Peace is not the absence of conflict but the presence of creative alternatives for responding to conflict -- alternatives to passive or aggressive responses, alternatives to violence" - D. Thompson

There will be no acceptance of a resolution that ignores all that the UN is founded upon so please start getting serious about finding the real alternatives!!!

This is ridiculous,

how a Prime Minister can stand in front of a UN mission and lie in their face about the "trust betwen serbs and albanians"

Princip,

We tried very hard to negociate with you betwen 1989 and 1998 and Belgrade ignored us completely. The more we resisted peacefully the worse things became. Besides this talk about negociations and all that is an attempt by belgrade politicans to make it in the history books as the heroic but failed-protectors of Kosovo.

By now I hope that lots of things are clear and that all had a chance to see that this visit is nothing but a cheap play by Russians and unfortunately Serbia's leaders bought it and tried to sell it to their nation as well (even though based on the reports there were only 70 people protesting outside Government building's, and perhaps 5000 gatheres near Kosova border, which indicates that Serbs don't buy this propaganda anymore).

Why a cheap play by Russia? Well, lets remember the events that happened in Kosova during 90's that lead to the NATO bombing of Serbia. For this UN needs not be reminded they all know the horrors and crimes committed in Kosova by the then official Serb state. Kostunica can refer to UN charter as much as he wants, but he cannot deny that his state, country, violated that same charter that he refers to now when it decided to kill all men of the Kruse village among other crimes committed, execution style. And let's not mention 1 million people expelled, and hunderds of catholic churches, mosques and schools destroyed.

What present Serb leaders missed to see and realize (this speaks about 2 things. 1 they are all bigots and Milosevic's in closets, blinded by the same nationalistic fervor that ruined Serbia or 2 they have no clue what they are doing and believe in some heavenly conspiracy agins them, feeling shared with many posters here who rant about wrong being done to Serbia) is that UN ambassadors will visit Kosova as well, and have a chance to get reminded again about the crimes committed against unarmed civilian population by a member state who was suppose to adhere to the UN charter and what else comes with it.

Russia, has counted exactly on this. In one hand it will gain obligations and favors from Serbia as a result of their "support" and on the other hand it will abstain (get additional favors from the West for it) and use as an excuse this fact finding visit when it gets faced with the overwhelming support of the plan by the UNSC.

That this is going to backfire for Serbia, you only need to know some of the questions asked by the UN ambassadors when they met with the Serb officials and they are:

-What is your plan to solve this issue
-How do you see Albanians and Serbs living together
-What do you plan to do in the even UN adopts a resolution supporting Ahtisaari plan


And the answers to these questions speak for themselves. On the first question Samardzic mentioned the famous more than autonomy less than independence thing, and said that some ambassadors did not know that Serbia had a plan at all until now. Wow what a statement!!! I am not sure but I though that Serbia's delegation, whose member Samardzic was, took part on the UN sponsored negotiations.

For the second one Kostunica mentioned Preševo, Bujanovac and Medveđa and Albanians there as an example. Now is Kostunica an incompetent or what?! There is something about this man. He chooses to ignore things that are not convenient for him as he pleases. Last time I checked not long ago there was a war there between Albanians and Serbs on Preševo, Bujanovac and Medveđa region and UN/EU got involved in defusing the situation.

And the answer to the third questions is the most appalling one. Kostunica simply did not have an answer and called that a hypothetical question and said it was highly improbable and impossible for UN to pass such a resolution. Now, let me get this, UN ambassadors are in Kosova just for fun, you know ... they are not visiting Kosova to gather information about the place and decide on the Ahtissari plan through some UN resolution. This is irresponsible at best and ignorant at worst of the world political reality by the man who is the acting prime minister of a state and wants to be the next prime minister of that state.

You see this thing boils down to two things. On one is the UN charter and countries borders and the other is the obligations of this country towards its people. Everything would have been very simple and easy if the country, in this case Serbia, had honored its obligation towards its people. At that point, that Serbia decided to exterminate its Albanian population, Serbia lost its right to decide about their future and the future of the territory they live in.

By adopting this resolution UN is going to put in place the most serious mechanism that will protect the people from their country, jut like it has a mechanism to protect the borders of a country. This way countries will be held responsible for their actions. Countries as organized entities and as such they must be held accountable to higher standards. There is nothing that will bring back the dead, and there is nothing to restore the material loss that people in Kosova, no matter who they are, have suffered. And to ensure that something like this does not happen again UN should and will adopt this resolution. Countries like Spain have nothing to fear. Spain faced with decades of Basque terrorism has never undertaken action equal to the ones done by Serbia in Kosova, and to make things even worst Serbia at no point, and I add at no point in its history with Albanians, was dealing with Albanian terrorism, but yet it did what it did.

Yes, UN fact-finding Ladies and Gentlemen
What you have to say now. I would rather suggest stopping and getting back to New York. Isn’t more than enough Mr. Kostunica’s justification regarding the live-together possibility? You see how easy is when you are minority in Serbia? Subsequently, there are some 10.000 Albanians (most of them don’t speak Serbian) in Belgrade, who even striped off of anything that distinguishes their origin (i.e. language, education in their mother tongue, distinctive etc) are alive, and people do trust them!
OK, the fact that Serbian population in Kosovo doesn’t agree to participate in Kosovo institution is nothing. It isn’t their fault; they are instructed to act that way by Mr. Kostunica.
As far as the UN Charter is concerned my opinion is that it is not that rigid as expressed by Mr. Kostunica. UN Charter is not unchangeable document since it was created by human in accordance with circumstances which today need to be changed; more then 90% involved factors agree with that. Apart of very few who don’t have the same opinion mostly because of nostalgic, political interests and so on.

"The ambassadors were also told that some 10,000 ethnic Albanians live in Belgrade, proof, according to the Serb officials, that there is trust in the wider layers of society."

This is pure lie. That number could have been true in the early 80's however since then and especially since 1999 when Albanians were terrorized and their property damaged there are less than 1,000 Albanians today there, with most of them having ceased practicing their culture for obvious reasons.

Serbs asked that the UN ambassadors should go to the serb enclaves, but did the serb government send these ambasadors to the Mass graves of albanian civilians which are killed and buried through Serbia in order to hide the crimes of the serb military?
Anyway, UN has been in Kosovo for about 8 years now and they know the truth.
I wonder what else will the Serbs ask after this mission because in just few days the Serbs will say that this mission failed and they will ask for another mission...
Kosova will be an independent country and there is no other way.
Serbs can ask for 100 more missions but its over.
Remember the mission of OSCE in 1998, then UNMIK mission for 8 yeears, all missions were telling the truth, this one will see the truth also taht Kosova will not be under Serbia anymore.

I think what is most humorous about this meeting is the complaint of NATO, essentially complaining that they just don't have any more troops.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Albanians would already have independence if they hadn't acted like the Milosevic regime and acted against Serbs.

You guys had your chance to do it right. I really wish you had. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You took the moral low ground and are reaping.

Sorry, guys, but you only have yourselves to blame.

*If* you get independence don't expect the West to come running with aid. I'll write my senators and representatives to make sure they know what I think.

You guys made your nest.

Kosovo Albaniens comments are usually nasty and most likely that was their atitude all along in order to start the war and create illusion to the world of victum-which they did well, but the truth about them is slowly comming out. Soon California will be majority latinos and I doubt that they will get the independance. Respect the land that you live in and if you can't or don't want to be Serb go somwhere where you will be happy-as simple as that.

"U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Michael Polt said that the UN mission would assess the situation in Kosovo, but stressed that, in his opinion, "the UN Security Council will grant supervised independence to Kosovo by the beginning of summer 2007."

Obviously Polt has not been listening to what the Russians are saying recently. Maybe it is wishful thinking on his part, or maybe, more likely, he is resorting to psychological pressure on Belgrade and Moscow -- which belies the fact that the US is really getting worried.

This a 3 day visit wich means ,that americans are trying to please rusians with this visit for the outcome of this resolution and everybody knows that but someway-somehow is goig to please this politicians temporary

i would not be surprised when tadic & co will ask for another UN fact finding mission. doing everything to procrastinate the whole status process is the only hope for serbian authorities. this is when you loose all arguments. that's the way it is...

cheers,

Adi,

you are wrong - Serbia has said it does not wish to have one-sided solutions imposed - it wants to give diplomacy and real negotiations a chance. Ahtisaari himself says he never spent one second discussing any other alternatives possible - he had already deceided that his solution is the only one he would offer. That however, is not negotiation it is imposition!!! If the US & UK wish to push through this through and once more disregard diplomacy and talks then that is a shame but Serbia will maintain it's tsnace that a stable and lasting solution can only ever be found when all concerned agree through a negotiated settlement. Serbia wants to find a solution that is evident and Russia is upholding this reasonable and principled stance so unless the US & UK want to be shown for the duplicity of their actions they will need to ensure any resolution is based on International laws and principles - unless of course it says the future is bleak and a free for all who want to force things by the barrel of a gun.

"Peace is not the absence of conflict but the presence of creative alternatives for responding to conflict -- alternatives to passive or aggressive responses, alternatives to violence" - D. Thompson

There will be no acceptance of a resolution that ignores all that the UN is founded upon so please start getting serious about finding the real alternatives!!!

This is ridiculous,

how a Prime Minister can stand in front of a UN mission and lie in their face about the "trust betwen serbs and albanians"

Princip,

We tried very hard to negociate with you betwen 1989 and 1998 and Belgrade ignored us completely. The more we resisted peacefully the worse things became. Besides this talk about negociations and all that is an attempt by belgrade politicans to make it in the history books as the heroic but failed-protectors of Kosovo.

By now I hope that lots of things are clear and that all had a chance to see that this visit is nothing but a cheap play by Russians and unfortunately Serbia's leaders bought it and tried to sell it to their nation as well (even though based on the reports there were only 70 people protesting outside Government building's, and perhaps 5000 gatheres near Kosova border, which indicates that Serbs don't buy this propaganda anymore).

Why a cheap play by Russia? Well, lets remember the events that happened in Kosova during 90's that lead to the NATO bombing of Serbia. For this UN needs not be reminded they all know the horrors and crimes committed in Kosova by the then official Serb state. Kostunica can refer to UN charter as much as he wants, but he cannot deny that his state, country, violated that same charter that he refers to now when it decided to kill all men of the Kruse village among other crimes committed, execution style. And let's not mention 1 million people expelled, and hunderds of catholic churches, mosques and schools destroyed.

What present Serb leaders missed to see and realize (this speaks about 2 things. 1 they are all bigots and Milosevic's in closets, blinded by the same nationalistic fervor that ruined Serbia or 2 they have no clue what they are doing and believe in some heavenly conspiracy agins them, feeling shared with many posters here who rant about wrong being done to Serbia) is that UN ambassadors will visit Kosova as well, and have a chance to get reminded again about the crimes committed against unarmed civilian population by a member state who was suppose to adhere to the UN charter and what else comes with it.

Russia, has counted exactly on this. In one hand it will gain obligations and favors from Serbia as a result of their "support" and on the other hand it will abstain (get additional favors from the West for it) and use as an excuse this fact finding visit when it gets faced with the overwhelming support of the plan by the UNSC.

That this is going to backfire for Serbia, you only need to know some of the questions asked by the UN ambassadors when they met with the Serb officials and they are:

-What is your plan to solve this issue
-How do you see Albanians and Serbs living together
-What do you plan to do in the even UN adopts a resolution supporting Ahtisaari plan


And the answers to these questions speak for themselves. On the first question Samardzic mentioned the famous more than autonomy less than independence thing, and said that some ambassadors did not know that Serbia had a plan at all until now. Wow what a statement!!! I am not sure but I though that Serbia's delegation, whose member Samardzic was, took part on the UN sponsored negotiations.

For the second one Kostunica mentioned Preševo, Bujanovac and Medveđa and Albanians there as an example. Now is Kostunica an incompetent or what?! There is something about this man. He chooses to ignore things that are not convenient for him as he pleases. Last time I checked not long ago there was a war there between Albanians and Serbs on Preševo, Bujanovac and Medveđa region and UN/EU got involved in defusing the situation.

And the answer to the third questions is the most appalling one. Kostunica simply did not have an answer and called that a hypothetical question and said it was highly improbable and impossible for UN to pass such a resolution. Now, let me get this, UN ambassadors are in Kosova just for fun, you know ... they are not visiting Kosova to gather information about the place and decide on the Ahtissari plan through some UN resolution. This is irresponsible at best and ignorant at worst of the world political reality by the man who is the acting prime minister of a state and wants to be the next prime minister of that state.

You see this thing boils down to two things. On one is the UN charter and countries borders and the other is the obligations of this country towards its people. Everything would have been very simple and easy if the country, in this case Serbia, had honored its obligation towards its people. At that point, that Serbia decided to exterminate its Albanian population, Serbia lost its right to decide about their future and the future of the territory they live in.

By adopting this resolution UN is going to put in place the most serious mechanism that will protect the people from their country, jut like it has a mechanism to protect the borders of a country. This way countries will be held responsible for their actions. Countries as organized entities and as such they must be held accountable to higher standards. There is nothing that will bring back the dead, and there is nothing to restore the material loss that people in Kosova, no matter who they are, have suffered. And to ensure that something like this does not happen again UN should and will adopt this resolution. Countries like Spain have nothing to fear. Spain faced with decades of Basque terrorism has never undertaken action equal to the ones done by Serbia in Kosova, and to make things even worst Serbia at no point, and I add at no point in its history with Albanians, was dealing with Albanian terrorism, but yet it did what it did.

Yes, UN fact-finding Ladies and Gentlemen
What you have to say now. I would rather suggest stopping and getting back to New York. Isn’t more than enough Mr. Kostunica’s justification regarding the live-together possibility? You see how easy is when you are minority in Serbia? Subsequently, there are some 10.000 Albanians (most of them don’t speak Serbian) in Belgrade, who even striped off of anything that distinguishes their origin (i.e. language, education in their mother tongue, distinctive etc) are alive, and people do trust them!
OK, the fact that Serbian population in Kosovo doesn’t agree to participate in Kosovo institution is nothing. It isn’t their fault; they are instructed to act that way by Mr. Kostunica.
As far as the UN Charter is concerned my opinion is that it is not that rigid as expressed by Mr. Kostunica. UN Charter is not unchangeable document since it was created by human in accordance with circumstances which today need to be changed; more then 90% involved factors agree with that. Apart of very few who don’t have the same opinion mostly because of nostalgic, political interests and so on.

"The ambassadors were also told that some 10,000 ethnic Albanians live in Belgrade, proof, according to the Serb officials, that there is trust in the wider layers of society."

This is pure lie. That number could have been true in the early 80's however since then and especially since 1999 when Albanians were terrorized and their property damaged there are less than 1,000 Albanians today there, with most of them having ceased practicing their culture for obvious reasons.

Serbs asked that the UN ambassadors should go to the serb enclaves, but did the serb government send these ambasadors to the Mass graves of albanian civilians which are killed and buried through Serbia in order to hide the crimes of the serb military?
Anyway, UN has been in Kosovo for about 8 years now and they know the truth.
I wonder what else will the Serbs ask after this mission because in just few days the Serbs will say that this mission failed and they will ask for another mission...
Kosova will be an independent country and there is no other way.
Serbs can ask for 100 more missions but its over.
Remember the mission of OSCE in 1998, then UNMIK mission for 8 yeears, all missions were telling the truth, this one will see the truth also taht Kosova will not be under Serbia anymore.

I think what is most humorous about this meeting is the complaint of NATO, essentially complaining that they just don't have any more troops.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Albanians would already have independence if they hadn't acted like the Milosevic regime and acted against Serbs.

You guys had your chance to do it right. I really wish you had. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You took the moral low ground and are reaping.

Sorry, guys, but you only have yourselves to blame.

*If* you get independence don't expect the West to come running with aid. I'll write my senators and representatives to make sure they know what I think.

You guys made your nest.

Kosovo Albaniens comments are usually nasty and most likely that was their atitude all along in order to start the war and create illusion to the world of victum-which they did well, but the truth about them is slowly comming out. Soon California will be majority latinos and I doubt that they will get the independance. Respect the land that you live in and if you can't or don't want to be Serb go somwhere where you will be happy-as simple as that.

"U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Michael Polt said that the UN mission would assess the situation in Kosovo, but stressed that, in his opinion, "the UN Security Council will grant supervised independence to Kosovo by the beginning of summer 2007."

Obviously Polt has not been listening to what the Russians are saying recently. Maybe it is wishful thinking on his part, or maybe, more likely, he is resorting to psychological pressure on Belgrade and Moscow -- which belies the fact that the US is really getting worried.