Greece reopens Macedonia name issue

We should acknowledge the fact
that USA/UK/Germany and their satellites are behind the name conflict.

Macedonia issue is a child of the West.
Yugoslavs (maybe except bulgaria) were always friendly to Greece.

Give the Maks stability and sovereignity and the next day they become Serbs again
(ok speaking the torlakian dialect like in Dzep/Predejane/Vranje).

I repeat, we the greeks must open our eyes and see to what direction we should move on.

Crying "Macedonia was always Greek" (which of course is a definite fact) with closed eyes only proves our inability to be productive on the issue.

"Skopians" are
1m serbs (self proclaimed as Macedonians)
300k serbs on the north (Sar Planina)
700k albanians

Q. How long can Greece live a life of lies about Macedonia?

Macedonia was and always be for the ethnic Macedonian nativess (dopia). If the Greeks continue to live in the dark ages of "human rights" they will soon find out that there is a real world outside of the Greek borders and they may not like what they hear and see. Let them veto Macedonia from the EU then just sit back and watch where that little country of outsiders ends up.

There is only one place in the world where the name "Macedonia," is an "issue," and that is in Greece. It is time that the "Greeks," (and I use this word loosely) woke up and started referring to their northern neighbour as Macedonia.

pity there is a northern greek province called macedonia. where thessaloniki has been the makedonian capital since 315bc. now skopje a dardanian/paeonian city claims a right to be a makedonian capital as well in 1991ad. not bad considering skopje was never a makedonian city to begin with. yeah we greeks have problems with this. considering there are two capital of makedonias at such close proximity... a sure recipe for conflict..

In the Corfu Serbian Museum,
several references and documents are related to the "Vardar" Division.

Also Skoplje was the serbian capital during Stefan Dusan statehood.

I think we the greeks and the Skopians must agree on:

Skopians are virtued/civilazed people with no aggresive intentions towards greece.
Greece is a huge investor in Skopia
We could learn from Skopia how to build/design decent cities/roads (and no this unacceptable Antirio-Giannena "national road")
Slavic Skopians are more close to serbs and far away from albanians (attitude-wise)

I really fail to see the the reason for Greece's politicians keeping this name taboo and I wonder if the majority of the Greek population share their views.

Either way, they seem to be forgetting that the Macedonians have no territorial claims over any part of the Greek territory.

In fact, the only people with territorial claims on the Balkans are the Albanians which also a sizable community in Greece. So I suppose it's with the Albanians they should worry about, not the Macedonians.

Macedonia is was and always will be Greek.

Hey Filip, you may accuse the Albanians but evidence says otherwise. Remember the Balkan Wars, and the break up of Yugoslavia in the 90s. Hmmm Why did that happen?

What kind of historical or cultural link do the modern Greece have with either the ancient Greeks or ancient Macedonians? From what I know Mecedonia has always been there with this same historical name no matter the invasion of different people. Greek people after the Romans conquered them, they became Romei or Romii for many centuries (Byzantium and Ottoman Empires). In 1824 the Modern Greek State was created and the name they chose was taken from ancient history, Hellas, but the rest of the world knew them as Greki. Why do they today denay the right to other people to have a historical name of their territory for their State?After all, the Greeks already have more than one names!

Rename that country "Slav-Macedonia" or "New Macedonia" and end this issue.

To all Slavs of FYROM:

Pls quit this hopeless macedonia circle and join Serbia.

What drives Greek motivation to continue with an irrational approach of denying Macedonia their right to name their country the way it has always been named is not ancient history but rather very recent history rooted in a land grab that occured after the civil war in Greece.
Ex-Yugoslavia had a an agreemnt with Greece on never to legaly support any request from its Macedonian subjects to resolve land claim disputes in Northern Greece (aka Aegean Macedonia).It was absurd and very discriminatory to have yearly visas, humilitiang practices on the so called frienfly border imposed on part of Yugosalvians and never address the real issues such as the right of minorities in Greece, the property claims and the ability to cooperate and act in good faith.
It is a real shame that country which has given humanity one Plato and Aritotle can not allow itself to recognize and support just request from a very friendly country and its people whi dispate of all hardships they had to endure in dealing with Greece still profoundly love their southern neighbours.
It is a high time for Greece to raise above its tight corner and positional attitude of winning and losing and show the world it has deservedly been called the cradle of democracy.

we will all unite one day in the balkans.. macedonians will always refer to them as macedonian. So greece please stop this and move on. We have bright future ahead we love greece and we always did but the greeks need to respect our right as humans to decide on our name.. As for the facts the historians can prove it..

Aleksandar, there is a fairly massive gap between the people who gave us Plato, Aristotle, et al. and the people who currently inhabit "Greece."

I do not understand the Greeks that declare so strogly their Macedonian origin when at the same time they declare proudly that they are Mikrasiates, Pontii, Vhachi, Arvanites living in Macedonia. I am Macedonian because not only I was born in Macedonia but also because my parents, my grandparents and my grand-grand parents and as far back as our family memory can go, were born in Macedonia and we do not remember any other territorial or cultural origins but the Macedonian. And we are exactly the same, culturaly and linguisticaly, with the people that say they are Macedonians, in the Republic of Macedonia. We were separatated as a nation in 1912, by the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians and this is a true historical fact!Today part (half) of the historical Macedonian territory belongs to the Greek State, but not the Macedonian people and this is the reason why Greeks were always trying to get rid of this people so they could finally say that "Macedonia is Greek". The big problem for them is that they could not get their hands on the whole territory of Macedonia and know they cannot accept the fact they had lost a part of it in the war in 1912!

This dispute is the clear symptom of the childish Greek nationalism. There’s many cases around the world where are two or more regions belonging to different countries, but bearing the same name. The closer example is Luxembourg: there’s a country called Luxembourg and a province of Belgium called Luxembourg. And both countries go along very well and don’t have any kind of dispute.

The same goes to Pomerania: there are three Polish and one German states that have “Pomerania” in their names…

And here in Brazil, we have the Amazonas state… close to three other states also called Amazonas in Venezuela, Colombia and Peru. And since 1903, there’s no claims or unsettled questions… each country has its Amazonas state, and that’s OK…

Greeks have a very poor understanding of the Macedonians because the Greek government only teaches them how to think in slogans. Greeks say "Macedonia is Greece" and that is the extent of their knowledge on the matter. It is a disgrace what Greece is doing with the northern neighbor and the EU should not be encouraging this type of racist behavior.

RE: Vardanka Barajna

The Kingdom of Yugoslavia was divided by regions or baranjan, one of them was called the Vardaska Valley. Serbs paid the highest price during WWI to defend south slav land.

The VMRO began the Macedonian propoganda campaign in the early twentieth century. They assasinated King Alexander Karadjeordjevic of Yugoslavia as well as Louis Bartheau of France in 1934.

The Communist Tito continued VMRO objectives and created the so called Republic of Macedonia.

It is FYROM that should be ashamed of themselves claiming Hellenic Macedonian History while ignoring their true slavic roots, whether they be Serbian and or Bulgarian.

All of you make great points, I especially liked what Filip said. I am from Bitola and I feel more connected to Greece than to Macedonia, I don't agree that Skopje is the capital- it has nothing to do with the Macedonian Empire, nor do I think that the airport should be named "aleksander the great." That was low level punch from the so-called Macedonians, if you ask me. I have no problem with Greeks, Serbs or Macedonians but come on- get it straight and start working with one another.

Solun is Macedonian and always will be.

I see many comments refering to the Greeks of today as not having a direct link with the Greeks of ancient times. To this say then why is it that the Greeks of today speak Greek which is directly linked to ancient Greek. It is also well-documented that the ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek. Skopjans speak a slavic language that didn't appear in the balkans until the 6th century AD. This I believe ends this argument. Macedonia of the past has a direct link with Greece, by culture and by language, the slavo-macedonians, vardarskans whatever, cannot claim this.

"Either way, they seem to be forgetting that the Macedonians have no territorial claims over any part of the Greek territory."
I have a very good friend who is Macedonian, and he's always complaining about Greece stealing Thessaloniki and other places from them. So yes, they do have some real claims against Greece.
Personally, I find it rather silly for them to refer to themselves as Macedonians, they clearly aren't. A better cooler sounding name would be more appropriate.
However, I also find it odd that Greece makes such a huge issue out of it. Macedonia is in no position to take terroritory from them, now or ever.
How bout we call them Makisrbobulgaslavs? That's probably as accurate as anything else. It’s the Balkans! New Ethnicities happen everyday!

Greece is made up of different regions like Cyprus, Sparta and Macedonia and then they tell the world that they are pure greeks. Wake up to yourselfs.

This FYR Macedonia did not have this name until after WW2. It was southern Serbia and Skoplje was once Serbia's capital. They are Serbs, along with some Bulgarians in the east of the country.

Personally, I don't understand what the big deal is really. But if the Greeks express any reservations about the name, then the issue should be immediately dealt with with care and respect.

But if the name were to be changed, I would like to see a name like Adriland, or something along those lines, introduced simply because the whole of the Western Balkans is immersed in the Adriatic culture.

macedonia was never greek,the greeks have no right too change the macedonian name,skopje was never part of serbia,it has always been macedonian,the greeks settled in solun(aegean macedonia),after the ottoman war,they have no right too change the macedonian name nor the macedonian history,long lives macedonia!

Guyz....
Join Serbia, and then call yourself
Ahilovic,
Periklovski,
Platov,
we dont care...
Just acknowledge the fact that
Phill-ipos (frind of horses),
like in (philo-zwos, phil-ypoptos, phil-asthenos, etc...)
Alex-andros (Protector of men)
like in (alex-ikerauno, alex-isfairo, alex-iptoto, etc..)
had greek looks, greek language, greek origin, in few
words were simply GREEK.

How different is your language
from bugarski or srpksi?

Dont get me wrong...
I am the first to try to educate my countrymen
when they resolv to ignorant racist attributions to the Fyromians....
(My kids are half Serbians, i am a clear slavo-PHIL!)

My aswer to Ionikos about greek language, with a question. Do all the people that speak latin languages are ALL descendents of ancient Rome? Or do all the people that speak slavic languages are ALL, for example, Russians?After all, the Greek you speak today is different from the ancient greek dialects. And do not forget that many Greek people that arrived in Macedonia in 1922 declare ethnically Greek but spoke only the turkish language.

to the so called greeks, turkiye was ruling ur for 100's of years , greeks originate from a turkish, kurds background , so before you go into the topic of MACEDONIA ask yourselves what your ancestors and grandfathers really came from. macedonia will be again wot it was MACEDONIA with its original borders.

The slavs in Macedonia have
nothing to do with Macedonia.
In the ancient times their area was capital of dardania.It was only in 1946
that the communist leaders Stalin and Tito gave them thename macedonia in order to have a claim over greek territory.Anybody with basic knowledge of history knows that macedonia is greek

To Eugenia. If you really want to find out about macedonia i suggest you visit
the public library in Alexandria in Egypt. There is
a lot of literature on ancient Macedonia all written in Greek.Since you
don't speak greek you won't
be able to find out who you
really are.

Nothing Macedonian, in Macedonia.
Slavs of Bulgarian stock, Albanians, Serbs & Turks (The Greek Macedonians were forced out of the area) living on a section of ancient Macedonia call themselves Macedonians?

Why some people stick with archeology? I personally do not know much of archeology,but I guess nobody in modern times can get so far back as 4.000 or 2.000 years and claim direct origins, forgetting about all what happened after that era, up today. I still believe that modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancient people that lived in the same region called Greece now. And the proof is that, for example, Peloponese was inhabitated by Slavic speaking people and its name was Morea (More=sea)and many toponims are slavic in many parts of Greece. So, who gave this toponims to the region? Descendants of ancient Greeks? Ancient Greeks had names for every part of their region so why the names were changed? And I know wery well who I am and who were my ancestors;they are Macedonians, as they define themselves and this is in their rights and nobody can deny it, as I do not deny the right to Greeks to define themselves as direct descendants of ancient people, even if I do not believe they really are.

To Eugenia, language and culture are just one common bond shared between Greeks and Macedonians of the past. They worshiped the same gods, spoke similar dialects, Alexander spread Greek ideals and culture as he conquered Asia. Obviously the Greek language of today is not the same as ancient Greek but it is more intelligible to a modern Greek than say Anglo-Saxon English of 800 years ago is to a modern English speaker. Maybe the peoples are mixed but the language and cultural history have survived more or less. The Skopjans are claiming that they are decendants of the ancient Macedonians yet slavic and Greek are very different languages. I'm just saying that there is a big gap in logic there. I live in the United States. My ancestors are European. I don't tell people I am a Native American, Sioux, or Potawatami Indian nor do I call Sitting Bull, Chief Blackhawk my direct decendants.

Ancient Quotes on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation:

www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/AncientEvidence.html

Modern Historians on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation:

www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/ModernHistorians.html

This is what the greeks avoid to discuss because they can't explain it. Note that the modern historians include German, French, English and American historians.

Ionikos, I am very glad you mentioned the Native Americans. Do you know that here in the greek Macedonia everybody are refering to us as Native Macedonians? In Greek is "dopii Makedones" or "gigenis Makedones"(meaning that we speak Macedonian language) so that they can distinguish us from the Greek "Macedonians" imported from Turkey and other parts of Greece, after 1912, in Macedonia?

Any of these arguments or quotes from historical experts could also apply to the Spartans. They considered themselves a separate nation in a way, yet you don't hear any discussion of the Spartans not being Greek. The Athenians, Spartans, Thebans, Boetians, Aeolians, Ionians, Macedonians, etc. were united by language and culture. That is the common link. No one has yet to explain to me how the Slavic tribes that moved into the Balkan peninsula around the 6th century AD (900 years after Alexander lived) have some kind of link to Alexander and Macedonia. Someone please answer this. The fact that Greek speaking peoples were displaced from Macedonia and then replaced after 1912 is an artifact of the Ottoman Empire's internal population migrations.

There is a subtlety here that is often being confused: that is the use of Macedonia as a geographical region versus a national identity. If the Skopjans want to call themselves Macedonian because of the geographical region that they, as well as the Greeks, Bulgarians, etc. inhabit, then I don't have a problem with that except the correct name for the region that includes FYROM as well as Greek and Pirin Macedonia should be Paeonia. Using Macedonia as a national name is incorrect especially if you are a Slavic speaker. For the reason stated above (no link between Slavs and Macedonians) Greek Macedonia is a region,a geographical toponym of the people that live there not a national identity.

Could some one tell me what are the cultural characteristics of a modern greek Macedonian? I can distinguish the Greeks from the defferent parts of Greece (Epirus, Thessalia Peloponese, Ionian islands, Crete etc.)but I do not have in mind someone that is native Macedonian and Greek.If the ancient Macedonians were displaced or desapeared, I would like to know when (date-period of time)this happened. If now people think that the population replaced from Turkey in Macedonia with their very turkish cultural characteristic are the REAL MACEDONIANS, I really have nothing more to say!

whoever told you there were no greeks in makedonia?
in 1821 and 1854 there were to hellenic revolutions in makedonia and according to historians [non greek] that wrote down the events of 1821 & 1854 there were no references of any slavs. according to the league of nation report when the 500,000 minor asia refugees settled in macedonia the population of macedonia was 1.3 million in 1923. therefore 800.000 greeks were already in makedonia before the asia minor refugees settled there.

More than 75% of classical Macedonia lies inside the present borders of Greece, including all the important historical sites. Similarly, more than 51% of the Ottoman Sanjak of Macedonia is now within the present Greek boarders. The remainder is shared between FYROM and Bulgaria. So, even without other arguments of historical or cultural nature, the province of modern Greece called Macedonia automatically has a much older and more important claim to use this name exclusively.
Moreover, it totally astounds me why a people who descended in the region more than one thousand years after the death of Alexander the Great should in the year 1945 for the first time in history choose to adopt a mane for their country that belongs to someone else, and also try to adopt the history and symbols of this alien country as their own. It is as if the Poles after WWII were to insist that their country should now be named Prussia, and that Frederick the Great was indeed their own national hero. Of course the people of Poland never contemplated anything as ludicrous as this. But now here it is, further south in Skopje, which itself incidentally, together with a big chunk of this country, was never ever part of the ancient, medieval, or more modern Macedonia, geographically, historically or administratively.

all this argument is not coming too nothing,the truth is macedonia was not greek,the greeks(athenians),settled in solun now called(thessaloniki),but the macedonians lived in that region for centuries before the greek settlers,before the ottoman war greece never had that region,alexander the great never spread hellenic around,he never knewed wat was hellenic,how can macedonia be greek when the macedonians were fighting against greece,the macedonians do know there history and greeks do know the macedonian history aswell they just dont want too admit this so they start being very selfish,the truth is the greeks know that macedonia was not greek but they are scared too give the houses back that the macedonians used too live in and properties so they deny our human rights and name,i hope the eu understands our point of view,macedonia is macedonia,and greece is greece,they r both seperated,long lives macedonia and the macedonians!

I am restating this question which still remains unanswered: how can the Slavic tribes which migrated to the Balkan peninsula in the 6th century AD have anything to do with Alexander the Great and the Macedonians of 900 years prior to this date? How can anyone refute this? Those that do are deluded.

Also, it is well known that Alexander slept with the Iliad under his pillow, Macedonian coins of the period have GREEK writing on them, the Macedonians worshiped the same 12 gods the Greeks did, Alexander's name is Greek for protector of men, Alexander's father's name Phillip is Greek for lover of horses. Let's look at another third-party source: the Bible, specifically the New Testament and St. Paul's letters to the THESSALONIANS and PHILLIPI. These are the names of cities in Macedonia at the time of St. Paul about 2000 years ago. Note, the names are GREEK. It was not St. Paul's letters to the Solunians. How could it be? The Slavs had not migrated to the area until 600 years later. How are these hard facts being ignored? Saying that the Macedonians were not Greek because they fought with the Athenians is an invalid argument. The Athenians fought with the Spartans but no one questions the fact that the Spartans were also Greek. Please educate yourselves.

Alexander The Great did not know the greek language,he spoke a different dialect too the greek language,when the greeks called him out in the greek language he did not understand,he spoke ancient macedonian,ancient macedonian is not greek!,either way slavs or no slavs macedonia was not greek,the macedonians spoke a different dialect too the greeks!,i think the macedonians do have the right too call there country as macedonia,There is no problem for the country too be called macedonia,it doesnt matter if there is a region in greece called macedonia and a country called macedonia,i think the greeks are reacting childish too this,nothing will change if the country is called macedonia everything will be the same,if greece really wanted macedonia why didnt they call there country as macedonia,if they want they can change the greek name too macedonia and we can all be macedonians if they like it that way,why cant the macedonians be called macedonia,i think they do have the right for the country too be called macedonia,hopefully the macedonians will have the right too call there country as macedonia,eu should recognise it!peace!

John, just because you contradict something does not make it true. What is your proof? I am open to discussion if you can make a valid argument.

It is well documented that all the inscriptions found in Macedonia thus far are of Koine or Attic Greek , the same dialect spoken by the Athenians. This was the language spoken at least up to the time of Alexander in the 4th century BC. There is also an account by Herodotus that stated that in order for Alexander II of Macedon (a decendant of Alexander the Great) to compete in the Olympics around 450BC he had to prove he was of Greek origin (non-Greeks were not allowed to compete at the time). He was able to prove that his family was of Argolic (southern Greek origin). To me it seems, based on the historical evidence, that Macedonia, Sparta, Athens, Thebes, etc. were all Greek city-states not separate ethnic identities.

Also the city of Napoli (Italy), for example, was a greek city and still has its ancient greek name. Do anybody today say that the Italian citizens should declare that they are living on greek territory or they should change their city's name because the use of a greek name by Italians can confuse people about the greek culture or history?

macedonians themeselves were not called hellenes!,the main thing is that alexander's toungue did not speak greek!

The difference, Eugenia, is that Italy is not claiming Greek territory as the borders are today. There are numerous examples, even in Skopjan school books, that show maps of FYROM that include all of historical Macedonia including northern Greece. Also, Italy is not claiming that Pericles or Socrates are Italian. In fact, they acknowledge that Archimides who spent most of his life in Syracusa (in present-day Sicily) is Greek, not Roman or Italian. THAT is the difference. Yes there were Greek colonies at one time that covered vast areas around the Mediterranean and Black seas, but other countries are not claiming that parts of Greece or her history or historical figures are theirs.

Gregory, you make no valid argument nor do you give factual information to support your claim.

As about the "propaganda" of territorial claims, we have hundreds of examples how Greece is using the propaganda against Turkey, by officially and publicly talking and writing about Asia Minor and Pondos and Istanbul (Kostantinoupoli they call it) as their taken by Turkey homelands which should be greek and they still educate children at school with the idea of a Greater Greece.

Anyway, this has to stop, in some way. The Macedonian governement declared that they will not change the name of the country, ever, so Greece has only one choice: to find a name that suits them to call us. All the rest of the world that does not have any problem with history and archeology must call the country with the costitutional name its people chose. There is no other argument on it. And for what Greece says about its historical heritage and culture, nobody is going to take from them the right to say crazy things like they are the direct descendants of ancient Greeks or Macedonians and that Alexander the Great is their very close relative from his father side.

I forgot to mention that the inhabitants of Siracuse are called Siracusans and Napoli Napoletans, with the greek name of their cities and of course they are not greeks and do not claim to be greeks! Nobody said that ancients Macedonians were slavic people, but the modern native Macedonians in Greece or in the Republic of Macedonia or in the Bulgarian Pirin Macedonia are not greeks!They are just plain Macedonians, name they have from their native land and are different culturally from the modern Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Turks etc.They are a separate nation, very different from ancient times people, of course.

Eugenia, what you just said I had posted a few days ago on this article, that is that calling yourself Macedonian becuse you live in the geographical region called Macedonia is different from saying you are an ethnic Macedonian, implying some national conotation. In this sense I agree with you. But what I disagree with is the people that deny that Alexander and the ancient Macedonians did not speak Greek or were not Greek. I had mentioned in previous posts, then why are Macedonian coins inscribed with Greek words. Denying this kind of evidence seems ridiculous.

Also, with respect to Syracusans and Neopolitans, the same argument that I have been making applies: they may have called themselves Syracusans, Neopolitans, Spartans, Athenians, etc. but that does not change the fact that they spoke Greek and in the case of the Italian city-states were founded by Greek colonists.

Ionikos, I am Macedonian not Greek. I live in Greece (in Macedonia) so I have greek citizenship, but I do not belong to the greek ethnic group. I am not Greek, I am not Bulgarian, I am not Serbian, I am not Turk, I am not Gipsy and I am not Vlach. So what could I be, being native of this land that is called Macedonia and with the rest that goes with it(language. music, dances, uses and customs)?I tell you, I could not be anything else but Macedonian!I am one of those to whom the greek State denys the existance, and gave to my people many names before (Bulgarians, Slavophones, locals or natives and last Slavomacedonians)!The State denys to us to have our real name, which we know from our grand fathers and grand-grand fathers and not from Tito!

As soon as the news of Alexander's death were known, the Greeks rebelled yet again and so begun the Lamian War. The Macedonians were defeated and expelled from Greece, but then Antipater received reinforcements from Craterus who brought to Macedonia the 10,000 veterans discharged at Opis. Antipater and Craterus jointly marched into Greece, defeated the Greek army at Crannon in Thessaly and brought the war to an end. Greece will remain under Macedonian rule for the next one and a half century.

According to the tradition generally accepted by the Greeks, the Macedonian kingdom, which under Philip and Alexander attained to such extraordinary greatness, was founded by Hellenic emigrants from Argos. The Macedonians themselves were not Hellenes; they belonged to the barbaric races, not greatly differing from the Greeks in ethnic type, but far behind them in civilization, which bordered Hellas upon the north. They were a distinct race, not Paeonian, not Illyrian, not Thracian; but, of the three, their connection was closest with the Illyrians. The Argive colony, received hospitably, gradually acquired power in the region about Mount Bermius; and Perdiccas, one of the original emigrants, was (according to Herodotus) acknowledged as king. (Other writers mentioned three kings anterior to Perdiccas, whose joint reigns covered the space of about a century.) The period which follows is one of great obscurity, little being known of it but the names of the kings!,The greeks called the macedonians barbarians!hopefully there will be peace one day!

Turkey conquered the Balkans in the 14th century including Greece and Macedonia. With the help of the western powers, the Greeks freed themselves in the 1820's, but the Macedonians failed to gain freedom with their rebellions in 1870's and in 1903.

Slavs invaded the whole of Balkans in the 6th century, including Macedonia and the whole of Greece, all the way down to the Peloponnesus. Byzantine historians clearly mentioned that the Macedonians did not disappear with the Slavic invasion but continued to exist. In the 10th century Salonica is described as the "largest city of the Macedonians" and to subdue the independent Slavic tribes in the Peloponnesus in Greece, the Byzantine emperors who were Macedonians, belonging to the Macedonian Dynasty, had to sent "Macedonians and Thracians" against them. Thus the Macedonians and Slavs have been living side by side ever since the 6th century. Over period of centuries these Slavic people mixed into the Macedonians in Macedonia, and with the Greeks in Greece, and laid the foundations for the modern Macedonian and Greek nations. Historical records continue to mention the Macedonians until the fall of the Byzantine Empire. It must be stressed that there is NO record of invasion of Greeks into Macedonia.

Even Greeks sources, including the king of Greece himself in 1912, confirm that when the Greek armies occupied Aegean Macedonia the overwhelming majority of the population were NOT Greeks, confirming the fact that the Greeks never lived in Macedonia since the most ancient times!Since 1913 Greece begun its assimilatory policies against the Macedonians, changing their family names to Greek names, renaming the cities, rivers, and mountains with Greek names, and forbidding the speaking of the Macedonian language!

In the mid 1920's Greeks from Asia Minor begun migrating into Aegean Macedonia for a first time ever, and soon the Macedonians found themselves among strangers in their native land, who most vigorously attacked everything that represents the Macedonian nationality and consciousness. In the 1930's the Macedonians were forced to drink castor oil for speaking Macedonian and had to pay financial penalty for every spoken word of Macedonian!the macedonian history will never change macedonia will always live, greeks will be punished one day!

Because the majority of the population living in Aegean Macedonia was not Greek, does not mean there were never any Greeks in Macedonia. This logic is completely wrong. In fact, the sentence contradicts itself. The name places were a mixture of languages because of the internal political structure of the Ottoman Empire in which populations were diplaced or moved freely. I have already shown that the original place names that predate the Slavic migration were Greek and I used the New Testament of the Bible to prove a few of them, i.e. Phillipi and Thessalonia. Sorry your argument does not hold water.

Also in the mid 1920s, the Greeks did not migrate to Macedonia. They were forced to relocate because of the Treaty of Lusanne which included a forced population exchange between Greece and Turkey after the Greco-Turkish War. The relocation was coordinated by the International Red Cross after 1923.

Because of the nationalism that was created during the 18th century by the crumbling Ottoman Empire, all peoples in this region may feel drawn to one extreme or another and this causes discord and territorial ambitions but one must find a way to see through the propaganda and look at the evidence. I have yet to hear any explanation as to why Alexander, a Macedonian, spread HELLENISTIC ideals and his death signaled the beginning of the HELLENISTIC Period or why there is Greek written on everything found in the ancient Macedonia of Alexander's time. How can one deny that there is no connection to ancient Macedonia and the Slavs who live there today.

Ionikos, you still write about archeology and I say to you that we live our lives in 2007 A.D. and not 2.000 years B.C. So what if ancient kings of Macedonia were greek or not? Archeologists say that before the Macedonians, the Frygians lived in the same land and before them some neolithic polulations,etc. Today Asia Minor and Istanbul are turkish, Magnia Grecia is italian and Macedonia is macedonian. And the Parthenon in Athens belongs to the people that built it. People from all over the world today come to Greece to admire the ancient monuments, not the modern greek people!

When historical claims are made to legitimize FYROM's name and character that infringe on another people's history and are revisionist, then I use historical evidence to refute those claims and defend my own. Your people are using the same history from, as you say "2000BC" so then so do I. Insults are very unbecoming of you Eugenia.

Ionikos, I am very sorry if I insulted you in some way. It was not in my intentions.The right I have to say I am a Macedonian, because I am a native of the land is called Macedonia and I learn Macedonian history because is the history of my homeland, does not take from you the right to say the history as you think is right. But, please do not deny my right to call my self after the name of my land. If my land was called today Peonea I would call my self Peonean. But the name is Macedonia, and it was like this for centuries after Alexander the Great time. It never changed.The fact I do not feel I belong to the greek ethnic group is because of the historical facts that happened in Macedonia the time after Alexander the Great. I have the same right you have to call yourself a greek, because you have origins from a land that is called Greece today. If Greece was named Achaia, you most probably would call yourself Achaian.And probably you have origins from Ionia (Asia Minor)and you call yourself Ionikos.Do I have the right to say that you are a Turk? Of course not.The name you use shows what you feel you are and that is in your rights.And I respect that.

Eugenia, I agree with your previous statement. In fact I think we have some common ground and I find your moderation in the issue refreshing. It's the extreme views (on both sides) that poison our relations. I do not deny your existence. As I had said previously, I don't think it is wrong to call yourself Macedonian because of the region you live in but there is a fine line, and one we probably disagree on, on where the geography ends and the ethnic and historical conotations begin.

Ionikos, I agree that extremistic views are doing a very bad service to our people, both greek and macedonian. I never denyed the rights to the greek people to have their history and tell it as they think is right. I am not an historian or archeologist so I cannot argue on these issues. What matters to me is to be able to declare my origins from my homeland, without beeing obliged to declare a greek ethnic origin, not because I think this is bad but because it is not true. All the geografical region of Macedonia today is inhabitated by different ethnic groups (Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs,Vlachs, Gipsies, Turks, etc.)and native Macedonians which in their majority are slav language speakers. This language does not mean that they are just plain Slavs with no other ethnic identity, just like the Italian or Spanish people are not just plain Latins.All the rest on this argument is very bad politics, from both sides.

To Eugenia.
"The country by the sea is now called Macedonia..Alexander,the father of Perdiccas,and his forefathers,who were originally Temenidae from Argos"Thucydides
The Macedonians were Greeks,spoke tha same language and worshipped the same gods and performed the same sacrifices as all the other Greeks.
Your claim that modern Greeks are alien to the lands of Greece is utter nonsense.I am living proof.I was born in Edessa 51 years ago,my father was born in 1914 and my grandfather in 1873 in Yianitsa.My family
tree extends to few hundred all living in Macedonia .The only language spoken was Greek and never heard anybody disputing his Greek identity
Furthermore,Eugenia i could read ancient Greek and understand the subjiect.You dismiss history and then assert that modern Greeks were absorbed by other races hereas you and your ancnstors remained pure Macedonian.You remind me the ideas of the brainwashed children of the ommunist fellow travellers
which lost the war in 1949 and subsequently have been ngaged in crude propaganga to deceive the world.Your falsification of history will ot succeed.Macedonia was liberated with the blood of
the Greek people(my grandfather fought in this war) and will be defended with the same zeal and determination by my fellow Greek Macedonians.

Vassilis, you put the issue on a right track. You are a Greek Macedonian, with all the historical and cultural heritage of the ancient people, if you like to say so, and I am a native Macedonian, slav speaker, that has nothing to do with greek ethnicity (new or ancient). Why should I change the name of the ethnic group I belong? Or you mean I do not have the right to live in Macedonia because I am not of greek origins? So, I think nobody has to change names. You are a Greek Macedonian and I am a Native Macedonian. There are of course also Arvanites Macedonians, Vlachs Macedonians, Gypsies Macedonian etc. You, just because are Greek, do not have the right to deny to other people the right to take the name after the land they live on. And FYROM, as Greeks call it, is Macedonia, too.

Eugenia i would take issue with you as to whether FYROM
is Macedonia.Skopje was never part of Macedonia.In ancient
times it was the capital of
Dardania.Under the Ottoman
occupation was the capital of the Vilaeti of Kosovo until 1912 when it became the
capital of Vardar until 1944.
Therefore,geographicaly your
claim is invalid.
Your claims of Macedonian
identity as outlined by your history books are also
fraudulent because slavs cannot make the link with the
ancient Macedonians.Your
language which is a mixture
of Servo-Croat and Bulgarian
has nothing to do with Greek
language spoken by the people
lived in the land that we call today Greek Macedonia.
All inscriptions from ancient
Macedonia are written in Greek. Your decision to use
the name Macedonia as your
country's name was a well
devised communist plot conceived by Stalin,Tito and
commitern. As Stalin said in
1946 " we gave them a name but now they must gain
consciousness".

Vassilis, how would you feel if I told you that Greece never existed before 1824 as geografical region? Or could you tell me which are the historical bounderies of Greece?Why the greek territory, as modern Greek State, changed its bounderies so many times in the last 150 years, with the last annexation of the Dodecanese Islands, in 1945, taken from Italy? Is Asia Minor (Ionia) historical greek territory as well as the Greater Greece (Megali Ellada)in southern Italy and should be annexed to the Greek State? Why you have the problem only with Macedonia' s history and geografy? And the name of the modern Macedonian State is Former Yugoslav Republic of MACEDONIA, RECOGNIZED in U.N. and Greece. FYROM is like the USA for United States of America. The inhabitants of FYROM are called Macedonians and not Fyromians as the inhabitants of USA are called Americans and not USANIANS!

Eugenia,the boundaries of the modern Hellenic State
encompass the geographical areas that are related to the present inhabitants through history,language and
culture.As to the Dodecanese islands, have you heard about the Colossus of Rhodes as being one of the Seven Wonders of the World.Did you know that it took the sculptor,Chares of Lindos,12 years to finish the bronze
statue of Helios the sun god 33 meters tall.Did you know that as from the 15th century onwards Greek merchants from the Aegean islands dominated trade in Mediterranean and helped the revolution.Iam writing these
because you seem to doubt the Greekness of the Dodecanese islands despite all the evidence to the contrary.
History & geography provide compelling reasons for someone to label himself.

Vassilis, you got me wrong! I did not doubt the Greekness of the Dodecanese Islands. What I am saying is the territories that in the ancient times could have been Greek and inhabitated by Greek people, in modern times are not Greek anymore. And there are regions with ethnic Greek people that live outside the modern Greek State boundaries (South Albania or Boria Epirus, where the Greeks are an ethnic minority, for example). Or in the case of Cyprus, where Greeks live in a separate State, but still are Greeks. So, I think that today we should disconnect the ancient history and geography from our everyday life, and leave to the archeologists and historians talk about these issues. To belong to an ethnic group is a matter of consiusness and not a study of history and geography.

Eugenia i didn't get you wrong.You said that Greece annexed the Dodecanese.To annexe means to add territory
by conquest and the Greeks idn't conquer but liberated them.As to your remarks about Cyprus there is only one republic of Cyprus recognised by the UN and also a full member of EU.The pseudo-state created by the Turks with the importation of 250,000 Turks from Anatolia and baptised as Cypriots doesn't change the dynamics
in Cyprus. As to your belief that history should be left to historians i disagree for the simple reason that
it teaches people about the evolution of the human race in terms of progress, peace, wars , movements etc.What
binds people together is the idea of belonging and this is derived from common history, language, culture and
geography.Your ethnicity is not determined by wishful thinking of who you really are but by empirical evidence based on historical and cultural evolution.

Ok, Vassilis, I probably used the wrong verb saying "annexed". What I wanted to say is that Greece changed its borders many times, in the last 150 years. As about Cyprus, it is an indipendent and sovereign State where the inhabitants declare they are Greeks. So where is the problem? There are Greek citizens and Cyprot citizens and all belong to the same Greek ethnic group, but in two different States.As about history and geography I can tell you for sure that I learned I am Macedonian, not Greek, at home from my parents and grand-parents who told me they were proud Macedonians. Only when I went to primary school, in Edessa, I was told that is very bad to be a slav speaker and that I have to learn ancient greek history because I was a Greek with direct link to the ancient Greeks. I just did not buy it! I prefer to be what my famiiy told me I am! And this is in my human rights and nobody can deny this to me or, worse, to impose to me an identity I feel I do not have, just because the State I leave in is called Greece and the majority of its inhabitants declare ethnicaly, historicaly and geographicaly Greeks.

Good for you Eugenia and i've got no objection on how you feel and who you think you are.The European Human Rights act confers your human rights as well as your responsibilities.It is not one way traffic. You are a slav speaking person living in Macedonia Greece.Since you live in peace and liberty in a democratic country with all
its wonders and faults make the most of it.Refrain yourself from the crude lies and propaganda exercided by
the people of the F.Y.R of Vardar against people like myself.Iam a native of my land and so are millions of
my fellow Greek Macedonians. Our rights are confered to us by our ancestors throughout history.

Yes, dear neighbors. There is a tremendous issue about the name of MAKEDONIA. If you ask a German or a French or a Chinese citizen who knows and respect his history, to accept the name of his ancestors to be used by their northern neighbor, imagine his reaction and compare it with our one. I ensure you that, if there was no war till now between FYROM and Hellenic republic, it is because Greeks are peaceful and very civilized, and they try always to persuade everybody through dialogs respecting all human rights of nations. But do not forget that throughout centuries of glorious Creek history if a nation claimed land and water in any way from Greece, the Creeks knew only one answer: COME AND TRY TO TAKE IT FROM US!!! And all mankind knows how the Greeks fight for their freedom and independence. So don't push it too hard because the time is closing for such an answer. Try to be reasonable and accept the fact that Greeks -although they dissagree- are ready to discuss a familiar name with Macedonia but with geographical characteristics.

There is only one place in the world where the name "Macedonia," is an "issue," and that is in Greece. It is time that the "Greeks," (and I use this word loosely) woke up and started referring to their northern neighbour as Macedonia.

pity there is a northern greek province called macedonia. where thessaloniki has been the makedonian capital since 315bc. now skopje a dardanian/paeonian city claims a right to be a makedonian capital as well in 1991ad. not bad considering skopje was never a makedonian city to begin with. yeah we greeks have problems with this. considering there are two capital of makedonias at such close proximity... a sure recipe for conflict..

In the Corfu Serbian Museum,
several references and documents are related to the "Vardar" Division.

Also Skoplje was the serbian capital during Stefan Dusan statehood.

I think we the greeks and the Skopians must agree on:

Skopians are virtued/civilazed people with no aggresive intentions towards greece.
Greece is a huge investor in Skopia
We could learn from Skopia how to build/design decent cities/roads (and no this unacceptable Antirio-Giannena "national road")
Slavic Skopians are more close to serbs and far away from albanians (attitude-wise)

I really fail to see the the reason for Greece's politicians keeping this name taboo and I wonder if the majority of the Greek population share their views.

Either way, they seem to be forgetting that the Macedonians have no territorial claims over any part of the Greek territory.

In fact, the only people with territorial claims on the Balkans are the Albanians which also a sizable community in Greece. So I suppose it's with the Albanians they should worry about, not the Macedonians.

Macedonia is was and always will be Greek.

Hey Filip, you may accuse the Albanians but evidence says otherwise. Remember the Balkan Wars, and the break up of Yugoslavia in the 90s. Hmmm Why did that happen?

We should acknowledge the fact
that USA/UK/Germany and their satellites are behind the name conflict.

Macedonia issue is a child of the West.
Yugoslavs (maybe except bulgaria) were always friendly to Greece.

Give the Maks stability and sovereignity and the next day they become Serbs again
(ok speaking the torlakian dialect like in Dzep/Predejane/Vranje).

I repeat, we the greeks must open our eyes and see to what direction we should move on.

Crying "Macedonia was always Greek" (which of course is a definite fact) with closed eyes only proves our inability to be productive on the issue.

"Skopians" are
1m serbs (self proclaimed as Macedonians)
300k serbs on the north (Sar Planina)
700k albanians

What kind of historical or cultural link do the modern Greece have with either the ancient Greeks or ancient Macedonians? From what I know Mecedonia has always been there with this same historical name no matter the invasion of different people. Greek people after the Romans conquered them, they became Romei or Romii for many centuries (Byzantium and Ottoman Empires). In 1824 the Modern Greek State was created and the name they chose was taken from ancient history, Hellas, but the rest of the world knew them as Greki. Why do they today denay the right to other people to have a historical name of their territory for their State?After all, the Greeks already have more than one names!

Rename that country "Slav-Macedonia" or "New Macedonia" and end this issue.

To all Slavs of FYROM:

Pls quit this hopeless macedonia circle and join Serbia.

What drives Greek motivation to continue with an irrational approach of denying Macedonia their right to name their country the way it has always been named is not ancient history but rather very recent history rooted in a land grab that occured after the civil war in Greece.
Ex-Yugoslavia had a an agreemnt with Greece on never to legaly support any request from its Macedonian subjects to resolve land claim disputes in Northern Greece (aka Aegean Macedonia).It was absurd and very discriminatory to have yearly visas, humilitiang practices on the so called frienfly border imposed on part of Yugosalvians and never address the real issues such as the right of minorities in Greece, the property claims and the ability to cooperate and act in good faith.
It is a real shame that country which has given humanity one Plato and Aritotle can not allow itself to recognize and support just request from a very friendly country and its people whi dispate of all hardships they had to endure in dealing with Greece still profoundly love their southern neighbours.
It is a high time for Greece to raise above its tight corner and positional attitude of winning and losing and show the world it has deservedly been called the cradle of democracy.

we will all unite one day in the balkans.. macedonians will always refer to them as macedonian. So greece please stop this and move on. We have bright future ahead we love greece and we always did but the greeks need to respect our right as humans to decide on our name.. As for the facts the historians can prove it..

Aleksandar, there is a fairly massive gap between the people who gave us Plato, Aristotle, et al. and the people who currently inhabit "Greece."

I do not understand the Greeks that declare so strogly their Macedonian origin when at the same time they declare proudly that they are Mikrasiates, Pontii, Vhachi, Arvanites living in Macedonia. I am Macedonian because not only I was born in Macedonia but also because my parents, my grandparents and my grand-grand parents and as far back as our family memory can go, were born in Macedonia and we do not remember any other territorial or cultural origins but the Macedonian. And we are exactly the same, culturaly and linguisticaly, with the people that say they are Macedonians, in the Republic of Macedonia. We were separatated as a nation in 1912, by the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians and this is a true historical fact!Today part (half) of the historical Macedonian territory belongs to the Greek State, but not the Macedonian people and this is the reason why Greeks were always trying to get rid of this people so they could finally say that "Macedonia is Greek". The big problem for them is that they could not get their hands on the whole territory of Macedonia and know they cannot accept the fact they had lost a part of it in the war in 1912!

This dispute is the clear symptom of the childish Greek nationalism. There’s many cases around the world where are two or more regions belonging to different countries, but bearing the same name. The closer example is Luxembourg: there’s a country called Luxembourg and a province of Belgium called Luxembourg. And both countries go along very well and don’t have any kind of dispute.

The same goes to Pomerania: there are three Polish and one German states that have “Pomerania” in their names…

And here in Brazil, we have the Amazonas state… close to three other states also called Amazonas in Venezuela, Colombia and Peru. And since 1903, there’s no claims or unsettled questions… each country has its Amazonas state, and that’s OK…

Greeks have a very poor understanding of the Macedonians because the Greek government only teaches them how to think in slogans. Greeks say "Macedonia is Greece" and that is the extent of their knowledge on the matter. It is a disgrace what Greece is doing with the northern neighbor and the EU should not be encouraging this type of racist behavior.

RE: Vardanka Barajna

The Kingdom of Yugoslavia was divided by regions or baranjan, one of them was called the Vardaska Valley. Serbs paid the highest price during WWI to defend south slav land.

The VMRO began the Macedonian propoganda campaign in the early twentieth century. They assasinated King Alexander Karadjeordjevic of Yugoslavia as well as Louis Bartheau of France in 1934.

The Communist Tito continued VMRO objectives and created the so called Republic of Macedonia.

It is FYROM that should be ashamed of themselves claiming Hellenic Macedonian History while ignoring their true slavic roots, whether they be Serbian and or Bulgarian.

All of you make great points, I especially liked what Filip said. I am from Bitola and I feel more connected to Greece than to Macedonia, I don't agree that Skopje is the capital- it has nothing to do with the Macedonian Empire, nor do I think that the airport should be named "aleksander the great." That was low level punch from the so-called Macedonians, if you ask me. I have no problem with Greeks, Serbs or Macedonians but come on- get it straight and start working with one another.

Solun is Macedonian and always will be.

I see many comments refering to the Greeks of today as not having a direct link with the Greeks of ancient times. To this say then why is it that the Greeks of today speak Greek which is directly linked to ancient Greek. It is also well-documented that the ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek. Skopjans speak a slavic language that didn't appear in the balkans until the 6th century AD. This I believe ends this argument. Macedonia of the past has a direct link with Greece, by culture and by language, the slavo-macedonians, vardarskans whatever, cannot claim this.

"Either way, they seem to be forgetting that the Macedonians have no territorial claims over any part of the Greek territory."
I have a very good friend who is Macedonian, and he's always complaining about Greece stealing Thessaloniki and other places from them. So yes, they do have some real claims against Greece.
Personally, I find it rather silly for them to refer to themselves as Macedonians, they clearly aren't. A better cooler sounding name would be more appropriate.
However, I also find it odd that Greece makes such a huge issue out of it. Macedonia is in no position to take terroritory from them, now or ever.
How bout we call them Makisrbobulgaslavs? That's probably as accurate as anything else. It’s the Balkans! New Ethnicities happen everyday!

Greece is made up of different regions like Cyprus, Sparta and Macedonia and then they tell the world that they are pure greeks. Wake up to yourselfs.

This FYR Macedonia did not have this name until after WW2. It was southern Serbia and Skoplje was once Serbia's capital. They are Serbs, along with some Bulgarians in the east of the country.

Personally, I don't understand what the big deal is really. But if the Greeks express any reservations about the name, then the issue should be immediately dealt with with care and respect.

But if the name were to be changed, I would like to see a name like Adriland, or something along those lines, introduced simply because the whole of the Western Balkans is immersed in the Adriatic culture.

macedonia was never greek,the greeks have no right too change the macedonian name,skopje was never part of serbia,it has always been macedonian,the greeks settled in solun(aegean macedonia),after the ottoman war,they have no right too change the macedonian name nor the macedonian history,long lives macedonia!

Guyz....
Join Serbia, and then call yourself
Ahilovic,
Periklovski,
Platov,
we dont care...
Just acknowledge the fact that
Phill-ipos (frind of horses),
like in (philo-zwos, phil-ypoptos, phil-asthenos, etc...)
Alex-andros (Protector of men)
like in (alex-ikerauno, alex-isfairo, alex-iptoto, etc..)
had greek looks, greek language, greek origin, in few
words were simply GREEK.

How different is your language
from bugarski or srpksi?

Dont get me wrong...
I am the first to try to educate my countrymen
when they resolv to ignorant racist attributions to the Fyromians....
(My kids are half Serbians, i am a clear slavo-PHIL!)

My aswer to Ionikos about greek language, with a question. Do all the people that speak latin languages are ALL descendents of ancient Rome? Or do all the people that speak slavic languages are ALL, for example, Russians?After all, the Greek you speak today is different from the ancient greek dialects. And do not forget that many Greek people that arrived in Macedonia in 1922 declare ethnically Greek but spoke only the turkish language.

to the so called greeks, turkiye was ruling ur for 100's of years , greeks originate from a turkish, kurds background , so before you go into the topic of MACEDONIA ask yourselves what your ancestors and grandfathers really came from. macedonia will be again wot it was MACEDONIA with its original borders.

The slavs in Macedonia have
nothing to do with Macedonia.
In the ancient times their area was capital of dardania.It was only in 1946
that the communist leaders Stalin and Tito gave them thename macedonia in order to have a claim over greek territory.Anybody with basic knowledge of history knows that macedonia is greek

To Eugenia. If you really want to find out about macedonia i suggest you visit
the public library in Alexandria in Egypt. There is
a lot of literature on ancient Macedonia all written in Greek.Since you
don't speak greek you won't
be able to find out who you
really are.

Nothing Macedonian, in Macedonia.
Slavs of Bulgarian stock, Albanians, Serbs & Turks (The Greek Macedonians were forced out of the area) living on a section of ancient Macedonia call themselves Macedonians?

Why some people stick with archeology? I personally do not know much of archeology,but I guess nobody in modern times can get so far back as 4.000 or 2.000 years and claim direct origins, forgetting about all what happened after that era, up today. I still believe that modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancient people that lived in the same region called Greece now. And the proof is that, for example, Peloponese was inhabitated by Slavic speaking people and its name was Morea (More=sea)and many toponims are slavic in many parts of Greece. So, who gave this toponims to the region? Descendants of ancient Greeks? Ancient Greeks had names for every part of their region so why the names were changed? And I know wery well who I am and who were my ancestors;they are Macedonians, as they define themselves and this is in their rights and nobody can deny it, as I do not deny the right to Greeks to define themselves as direct descendants of ancient people, even if I do not believe they really are.

To Eugenia, language and culture are just one common bond shared between Greeks and Macedonians of the past. They worshiped the same gods, spoke similar dialects, Alexander spread Greek ideals and culture as he conquered Asia. Obviously the Greek language of today is not the same as ancient Greek but it is more intelligible to a modern Greek than say Anglo-Saxon English of 800 years ago is to a modern English speaker. Maybe the peoples are mixed but the language and cultural history have survived more or less. The Skopjans are claiming that they are decendants of the ancient Macedonians yet slavic and Greek are very different languages. I'm just saying that there is a big gap in logic there. I live in the United States. My ancestors are European. I don't tell people I am a Native American, Sioux, or Potawatami Indian nor do I call Sitting Bull, Chief Blackhawk my direct decendants.

Ancient Quotes on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation:

www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/AncientEvidence.html

Modern Historians on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation:

www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/ModernHistorians.html

This is what the greeks avoid to discuss because they can't explain it. Note that the modern historians include German, French, English and American historians.

Ionikos, I am very glad you mentioned the Native Americans. Do you know that here in the greek Macedonia everybody are refering to us as Native Macedonians? In Greek is "dopii Makedones" or "gigenis Makedones"(meaning that we speak Macedonian language) so that they can distinguish us from the Greek "Macedonians" imported from Turkey and other parts of Greece, after 1912, in Macedonia?

Any of these arguments or quotes from historical experts could also apply to the Spartans. They considered themselves a separate nation in a way, yet you don't hear any discussion of the Spartans not being Greek. The Athenians, Spartans, Thebans, Boetians, Aeolians, Ionians, Macedonians, etc. were united by language and culture. That is the common link. No one has yet to explain to me how the Slavic tribes that moved into the Balkan peninsula around the 6th century AD (900 years after Alexander lived) have some kind of link to Alexander and Macedonia. Someone please answer this. The fact that Greek speaking peoples were displaced from Macedonia and then replaced after 1912 is an artifact of the Ottoman Empire's internal population migrations.

There is a subtlety here that is often being confused: that is the use of Macedonia as a geographical region versus a national identity. If the Skopjans want to call themselves Macedonian because of the geographical region that they, as well as the Greeks, Bulgarians, etc. inhabit, then I don't have a problem with that except the correct name for the region that includes FYROM as well as Greek and Pirin Macedonia should be Paeonia. Using Macedonia as a national name is incorrect especially if you are a Slavic speaker. For the reason stated above (no link between Slavs and Macedonians) Greek Macedonia is a region,a geographical toponym of the people that live there not a national identity.

Could some one tell me what are the cultural characteristics of a modern greek Macedonian? I can distinguish the Greeks from the defferent parts of Greece (Epirus, Thessalia Peloponese, Ionian islands, Crete etc.)but I do not have in mind someone that is native Macedonian and Greek.If the ancient Macedonians were displaced or desapeared, I would like to know when (date-period of time)this happened. If now people think that the population replaced from Turkey in Macedonia with their very turkish cultural characteristic are the REAL MACEDONIANS, I really have nothing more to say!

whoever told you there were no greeks in makedonia?
in 1821 and 1854 there were to hellenic revolutions in makedonia and according to historians [non greek] that wrote down the events of 1821 & 1854 there were no references of any slavs. according to the league of nation report when the 500,000 minor asia refugees settled in macedonia the population of macedonia was 1.3 million in 1923. therefore 800.000 greeks were already in makedonia before the asia minor refugees settled there.

More than 75% of classical Macedonia lies inside the present borders of Greece, including all the important historical sites. Similarly, more than 51% of the Ottoman Sanjak of Macedonia is now within the present Greek boarders. The remainder is shared between FYROM and Bulgaria. So, even without other arguments of historical or cultural nature, the province of modern Greece called Macedonia automatically has a much older and more important claim to use this name exclusively.
Moreover, it totally astounds me why a people who descended in the region more than one thousand years after the death of Alexander the Great should in the year 1945 for the first time in history choose to adopt a mane for their country that belongs to someone else, and also try to adopt the history and symbols of this alien country as their own. It is as if the Poles after WWII were to insist that their country should now be named Prussia, and that Frederick the Great was indeed their own national hero. Of course the people of Poland never contemplated anything as ludicrous as this. But now here it is, further south in Skopje, which itself incidentally, together with a big chunk of this country, was never ever part of the ancient, medieval, or more modern Macedonia, geographically, historically or administratively.

all this argument is not coming too nothing,the truth is macedonia was not greek,the greeks(athenians),settled in solun now called(thessaloniki),but the macedonians lived in that region for centuries before the greek settlers,before the ottoman war greece never had that region,alexander the great never spread hellenic around,he never knewed wat was hellenic,how can macedonia be greek when the macedonians were fighting against greece,the macedonians do know there history and greeks do know the macedonian history aswell they just dont want too admit this so they start being very selfish,the truth is the greeks know that macedonia was not greek but they are scared too give the houses back that the macedonians used too live in and properties so they deny our human rights and name,i hope the eu understands our point of view,macedonia is macedonia,and greece is greece,they r both seperated,long lives macedonia and the macedonians!

I am restating this question which still remains unanswered: how can the Slavic tribes which migrated to the Balkan peninsula in the 6th century AD have anything to do with Alexander the Great and the Macedonians of 900 years prior to this date? How can anyone refute this? Those that do are deluded.

Also, it is well known that Alexander slept with the Iliad under his pillow, Macedonian coins of the period have GREEK writing on them, the Macedonians worshiped the same 12 gods the Greeks did, Alexander's name is Greek for protector of men, Alexander's father's name Phillip is Greek for lover of horses. Let's look at another third-party source: the Bible, specifically the New Testament and St. Paul's letters to the THESSALONIANS and PHILLIPI. These are the names of cities in Macedonia at the time of St. Paul about 2000 years ago. Note, the names are GREEK. It was not St. Paul's letters to the Solunians. How could it be? The Slavs had not migrated to the area until 600 years later. How are these hard facts being ignored? Saying that the Macedonians were not Greek because they fought with the Athenians is an invalid argument. The Athenians fought with the Spartans but no one questions the fact that the Spartans were also Greek. Please educate yourselves.

Alexander The Great did not know the greek language,he spoke a different dialect too the greek language,when the greeks called him out in the greek language he did not understand,he spoke ancient macedonian,ancient macedonian is not greek!,either way slavs or no slavs macedonia was not greek,the macedonians spoke a different dialect too the greeks!,i think the macedonians do have the right too call there country as macedonia,There is no problem for the country too be called macedonia,it doesnt matter if there is a region in greece called macedonia and a country called macedonia,i think the greeks are reacting childish too this,nothing will change if the country is called macedonia everything will be the same,if greece really wanted macedonia why didnt they call there country as macedonia,if they want they can change the greek name too macedonia and we can all be macedonians if they like it that way,why cant the macedonians be called macedonia,i think they do have the right for the country too be called macedonia,hopefully the macedonians will have the right too call there country as macedonia,eu should recognise it!peace!

John, just because you contradict something does not make it true. What is your proof? I am open to discussion if you can make a valid argument.

It is well documented that all the inscriptions found in Macedonia thus far are of Koine or Attic Greek , the same dialect spoken by the Athenians. This was the language spoken at least up to the time of Alexander in the 4th century BC. There is also an account by Herodotus that stated that in order for Alexander II of Macedon (a decendant of Alexander the Great) to compete in the Olympics around 450BC he had to prove he was of Greek origin (non-Greeks were not allowed to compete at the time). He was able to prove that his family was of Argolic (southern Greek origin). To me it seems, based on the historical evidence, that Macedonia, Sparta, Athens, Thebes, etc. were all Greek city-states not separate ethnic identities.

Also the city of Napoli (Italy), for example, was a greek city and still has its ancient greek name. Do anybody today say that the Italian citizens should declare that they are living on greek territory or they should change their city's name because the use of a greek name by Italians can confuse people about the greek culture or history?

macedonians themeselves were not called hellenes!,the main thing is that alexander's toungue did not speak greek!

The difference, Eugenia, is that Italy is not claiming Greek territory as the borders are today. There are numerous examples, even in Skopjan school books, that show maps of FYROM that include all of historical Macedonia including northern Greece. Also, Italy is not claiming that Pericles or Socrates are Italian. In fact, they acknowledge that Archimides who spent most of his life in Syracusa (in present-day Sicily) is Greek, not Roman or Italian. THAT is the difference. Yes there were Greek colonies at one time that covered vast areas around the Mediterranean and Black seas, but other countries are not claiming that parts of Greece or her history or historical figures are theirs.

Gregory, you make no valid argument nor do you give factual information to support your claim.

As about the "propaganda" of territorial claims, we have hundreds of examples how Greece is using the propaganda against Turkey, by officially and publicly talking and writing about Asia Minor and Pondos and Istanbul (Kostantinoupoli they call it) as their taken by Turkey homelands which should be greek and they still educate children at school with the idea of a Greater Greece.

Anyway, this has to stop, in some way. The Macedonian governement declared that they will not change the name of the country, ever, so Greece has only one choice: to find a name that suits them to call us. All the rest of the world that does not have any problem with history and archeology must call the country with the costitutional name its people chose. There is no other argument on it. And for what Greece says about its historical heritage and culture, nobody is going to take from them the right to say crazy things like they are the direct descendants of ancient Greeks or Macedonians and that Alexander the Great is their very close relative from his father side.

I forgot to mention that the inhabitants of Siracuse are called Siracusans and Napoli Napoletans, with the greek name of their cities and of course they are not greeks and do not claim to be greeks! Nobody said that ancients Macedonians were slavic people, but the modern native Macedonians in Greece or in the Republic of Macedonia or in the Bulgarian Pirin Macedonia are not greeks!They are just plain Macedonians, name they have from their native land and are different culturally from the modern Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Turks etc.They are a separate nation, very different from ancient times people, of course.

Eugenia, what you just said I had posted a few days ago on this article, that is that calling yourself Macedonian becuse you live in the geographical region called Macedonia is different from saying you are an ethnic Macedonian, implying some national conotation. In this sense I agree with you. But what I disagree with is the people that deny that Alexander and the ancient Macedonians did not speak Greek or were not Greek. I had mentioned in previous posts, then why are Macedonian coins inscribed with Greek words. Denying this kind of evidence seems ridiculous.

Also, with respect to Syracusans and Neopolitans, the same argument that I have been making applies: they may have called themselves Syracusans, Neopolitans, Spartans, Athenians, etc. but that does not change the fact that they spoke Greek and in the case of the Italian city-states were founded by Greek colonists.

Ionikos, I am Macedonian not Greek. I live in Greece (in Macedonia) so I have greek citizenship, but I do not belong to the greek ethnic group. I am not Greek, I am not Bulgarian, I am not Serbian, I am not Turk, I am not Gipsy and I am not Vlach. So what could I be, being native of this land that is called Macedonia and with the rest that goes with it(language. music, dances, uses and customs)?I tell you, I could not be anything else but Macedonian!I am one of those to whom the greek State denys the existance, and gave to my people many names before (Bulgarians, Slavophones, locals or natives and last Slavomacedonians)!The State denys to us to have our real name, which we know from our grand fathers and grand-grand fathers and not from Tito!

As soon as the news of Alexander's death were known, the Greeks rebelled yet again and so begun the Lamian War. The Macedonians were defeated and expelled from Greece, but then Antipater received reinforcements from Craterus who brought to Macedonia the 10,000 veterans discharged at Opis. Antipater and Craterus jointly marched into Greece, defeated the Greek army at Crannon in Thessaly and brought the war to an end. Greece will remain under Macedonian rule for the next one and a half century.

According to the tradition generally accepted by the Greeks, the Macedonian kingdom, which under Philip and Alexander attained to such extraordinary greatness, was founded by Hellenic emigrants from Argos. The Macedonians themselves were not Hellenes; they belonged to the barbaric races, not greatly differing from the Greeks in ethnic type, but far behind them in civilization, which bordered Hellas upon the north. They were a distinct race, not Paeonian, not Illyrian, not Thracian; but, of the three, their connection was closest with the Illyrians. The Argive colony, received hospitably, gradually acquired power in the region about Mount Bermius; and Perdiccas, one of the original emigrants, was (according to Herodotus) acknowledged as king. (Other writers mentioned three kings anterior to Perdiccas, whose joint reigns covered the space of about a century.) The period which follows is one of great obscurity, little being known of it but the names of the kings!,The greeks called the macedonians barbarians!hopefully there will be peace one day!

Turkey conquered the Balkans in the 14th century including Greece and Macedonia. With the help of the western powers, the Greeks freed themselves in the 1820's, but the Macedonians failed to gain freedom with their rebellions in 1870's and in 1903.

Slavs invaded the whole of Balkans in the 6th century, including Macedonia and the whole of Greece, all the way down to the Peloponnesus. Byzantine historians clearly mentioned that the Macedonians did not disappear with the Slavic invasion but continued to exist. In the 10th century Salonica is described as the "largest city of the Macedonians" and to subdue the independent Slavic tribes in the Peloponnesus in Greece, the Byzantine emperors who were Macedonians, belonging to the Macedonian Dynasty, had to sent "Macedonians and Thracians" against them. Thus the Macedonians and Slavs have been living side by side ever since the 6th century. Over period of centuries these Slavic people mixed into the Macedonians in Macedonia, and with the Greeks in Greece, and laid the foundations for the modern Macedonian and Greek nations. Historical records continue to mention the Macedonians until the fall of the Byzantine Empire. It must be stressed that there is NO record of invasion of Greeks into Macedonia.

Even Greeks sources, including the king of Greece himself in 1912, confirm that when the Greek armies occupied Aegean Macedonia the overwhelming majority of the population were NOT Greeks, confirming the fact that the Greeks never lived in Macedonia since the most ancient times!Since 1913 Greece begun its assimilatory policies against the Macedonians, changing their family names to Greek names, renaming the cities, rivers, and mountains with Greek names, and forbidding the speaking of the Macedonian language!

In the mid 1920's Greeks from Asia Minor begun migrating into Aegean Macedonia for a first time ever, and soon the Macedonians found themselves among strangers in their native land, who most vigorously attacked everything that represents the Macedonian nationality and consciousness. In the 1930's the Macedonians were forced to drink castor oil for speaking Macedonian and had to pay financial penalty for every spoken word of Macedonian!the macedonian history will never change macedonia will always live, greeks will be punished one day!

Q. How long can Greece live a life of lies about Macedonia?

Macedonia was and always be for the ethnic Macedonian nativess (dopia). If the Greeks continue to live in the dark ages of "human rights" they will soon find out that there is a real world outside of the Greek borders and they may not like what they hear and see. Let them veto Macedonia from the EU then just sit back and watch where that little country of outsiders ends up.

Because the majority of the population living in Aegean Macedonia was not Greek, does not mean there were never any Greeks in Macedonia. This logic is completely wrong. In fact, the sentence contradicts itself. The name places were a mixture of languages because of the internal political structure of the Ottoman Empire in which populations were diplaced or moved freely. I have already shown that the original place names that predate the Slavic migration were Greek and I used the New Testament of the Bible to prove a few of them, i.e. Phillipi and Thessalonia. Sorry your argument does not hold water.

Also in the mid 1920s, the Greeks did not migrate to Macedonia. They were forced to relocate because of the Treaty of Lusanne which included a forced population exchange between Greece and Turkey after the Greco-Turkish War. The relocation was coordinated by the International Red Cross after 1923.

Because of the nationalism that was created during the 18th century by the crumbling Ottoman Empire, all peoples in this region may feel drawn to one extreme or another and this causes discord and territorial ambitions but one must find a way to see through the propaganda and look at the evidence. I have yet to hear any explanation as to why Alexander, a Macedonian, spread HELLENISTIC ideals and his death signaled the beginning of the HELLENISTIC Period or why there is Greek written on everything found in the ancient Macedonia of Alexander's time. How can one deny that there is no connection to ancient Macedonia and the Slavs who live there today.

Ionikos, you still write about archeology and I say to you that we live our lives in 2007 A.D. and not 2.000 years B.C. So what if ancient kings of Macedonia were greek or not? Archeologists say that before the Macedonians, the Frygians lived in the same land and before them some neolithic polulations,etc. Today Asia Minor and Istanbul are turkish, Magnia Grecia is italian and Macedonia is macedonian. And the Parthenon in Athens belongs to the people that built it. People from all over the world today come to Greece to admire the ancient monuments, not the modern greek people!

When historical claims are made to legitimize FYROM's name and character that infringe on another people's history and are revisionist, then I use historical evidence to refute those claims and defend my own. Your people are using the same history from, as you say "2000BC" so then so do I. Insults are very unbecoming of you Eugenia.

Ionikos, I am very sorry if I insulted you in some way. It was not in my intentions.The right I have to say I am a Macedonian, because I am a native of the land is called Macedonia and I learn Macedonian history because is the history of my homeland, does not take from you the right to say the history as you think is right. But, please do not deny my right to call my self after the name of my land. If my land was called today Peonea I would call my self Peonean. But the name is Macedonia, and it was like this for centuries after Alexander the Great time. It never changed.The fact I do not feel I belong to the greek ethnic group is because of the historical facts that happened in Macedonia the time after Alexander the Great. I have the same right you have to call yourself a greek, because you have origins from a land that is called Greece today. If Greece was named Achaia, you most probably would call yourself Achaian.And probably you have origins from Ionia (Asia Minor)and you call yourself Ionikos.Do I have the right to say that you are a Turk? Of course not.The name you use shows what you feel you are and that is in your rights.And I respect that.

Eugenia, I agree with your previous statement. In fact I think we have some common ground and I find your moderation in the issue refreshing. It's the extreme views (on both sides) that poison our relations. I do not deny your existence. As I had said previously, I don't think it is wrong to call yourself Macedonian because of the region you live in but there is a fine line, and one we probably disagree on, on where the geography ends and the ethnic and historical conotations begin.

Ionikos, I agree that extremistic views are doing a very bad service to our people, both greek and macedonian. I never denyed the rights to the greek people to have their history and tell it as they think is right. I am not an historian or archeologist so I cannot argue on these issues. What matters to me is to be able to declare my origins from my homeland, without beeing obliged to declare a greek ethnic origin, not because I think this is bad but because it is not true. All the geografical region of Macedonia today is inhabitated by different ethnic groups (Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs,Vlachs, Gipsies, Turks, etc.)and native Macedonians which in their majority are slav language speakers. This language does not mean that they are just plain Slavs with no other ethnic identity, just like the Italian or Spanish people are not just plain Latins.All the rest on this argument is very bad politics, from both sides.

To Eugenia.
"The country by the sea is now called Macedonia..Alexander,the father of Perdiccas,and his forefathers,who were originally Temenidae from Argos"Thucydides
The Macedonians were Greeks,spoke tha same language and worshipped the same gods and performed the same sacrifices as all the other Greeks.
Your claim that modern Greeks are alien to the lands of Greece is utter nonsense.I am living proof.I was born in Edessa 51 years ago,my father was born in 1914 and my grandfather in 1873 in Yianitsa.My family
tree extends to few hundred all living in Macedonia .The only language spoken was Greek and never heard anybody disputing his Greek identity
Furthermore,Eugenia i could read ancient Greek and understand the subjiect.You dismiss history and then assert that modern Greeks were absorbed by other races hereas you and your ancnstors remained pure Macedonian.You remind me the ideas of the brainwashed children of the ommunist fellow travellers
which lost the war in 1949 and subsequently have been ngaged in crude propaganga to deceive the world.Your falsification of history will ot succeed.Macedonia was liberated with the blood of
the Greek people(my grandfather fought in this war) and will be defended with the same zeal and determination by my fellow Greek Macedonians.

Vassilis, you put the issue on a right track. You are a Greek Macedonian, with all the historical and cultural heritage of the ancient people, if you like to say so, and I am a native Macedonian, slav speaker, that has nothing to do with greek ethnicity (new or ancient). Why should I change the name of the ethnic group I belong? Or you mean I do not have the right to live in Macedonia because I am not of greek origins? So, I think nobody has to change names. You are a Greek Macedonian and I am a Native Macedonian. There are of course also Arvanites Macedonians, Vlachs Macedonians, Gypsies Macedonian etc. You, just because are Greek, do not have the right to deny to other people the right to take the name after the land they live on. And FYROM, as Greeks call it, is Macedonia, too.

Eugenia i would take issue with you as to whether FYROM
is Macedonia.Skopje was never part of Macedonia.In ancient
times it was the capital of
Dardania.Under the Ottoman
occupation was the capital of the Vilaeti of Kosovo until 1912 when it became the
capital of Vardar until 1944.
Therefore,geographicaly your
claim is invalid.
Your claims of Macedonian
identity as outlined by your history books are also
fraudulent because slavs cannot make the link with the
ancient Macedonians.Your
language which is a mixture
of Servo-Croat and Bulgarian
has nothing to do with Greek
language spoken by the people
lived in the land that we call today Greek Macedonia.
All inscriptions from ancient
Macedonia are written in Greek. Your decision to use
the name Macedonia as your
country's name was a well
devised communist plot conceived by Stalin,Tito and
commitern. As Stalin said in
1946 " we gave them a name but now they must gain
consciousness".

Vassilis, how would you feel if I told you that Greece never existed before 1824 as geografical region? Or could you tell me which are the historical bounderies of Greece?Why the greek territory, as modern Greek State, changed its bounderies so many times in the last 150 years, with the last annexation of the Dodecanese Islands, in 1945, taken from Italy? Is Asia Minor (Ionia) historical greek territory as well as the Greater Greece (Megali Ellada)in southern Italy and should be annexed to the Greek State? Why you have the problem only with Macedonia' s history and geografy? And the name of the modern Macedonian State is Former Yugoslav Republic of MACEDONIA, RECOGNIZED in U.N. and Greece. FYROM is like the USA for United States of America. The inhabitants of FYROM are called Macedonians and not Fyromians as the inhabitants of USA are called Americans and not USANIANS!

Eugenia,the boundaries of the modern Hellenic State
encompass the geographical areas that are related to the present inhabitants through history,language and
culture.As to the Dodecanese islands, have you heard about the Colossus of Rhodes as being one of the Seven Wonders of the World.Did you know that it took the sculptor,Chares of Lindos,12 years to finish the bronze
statue of Helios the sun god 33 meters tall.Did you know that as from the 15th century onwards Greek merchants from the Aegean islands dominated trade in Mediterranean and helped the revolution.Iam writing these
because you seem to doubt the Greekness of the Dodecanese islands despite all the evidence to the contrary.
History & geography provide compelling reasons for someone to label himself.

Vassilis, you got me wrong! I did not doubt the Greekness of the Dodecanese Islands. What I am saying is the territories that in the ancient times could have been Greek and inhabitated by Greek people, in modern times are not Greek anymore. And there are regions with ethnic Greek people that live outside the modern Greek State boundaries (South Albania or Boria Epirus, where the Greeks are an ethnic minority, for example). Or in the case of Cyprus, where Greeks live in a separate State, but still are Greeks. So, I think that today we should disconnect the ancient history and geography from our everyday life, and leave to the archeologists and historians talk about these issues. To belong to an ethnic group is a matter of consiusness and not a study of history and geography.

Eugenia i didn't get you wrong.You said that Greece annexed the Dodecanese.To annexe means to add territory
by conquest and the Greeks idn't conquer but liberated them.As to your remarks about Cyprus there is only one republic of Cyprus recognised by the UN and also a full member of EU.The pseudo-state created by the Turks with the importation of 250,000 Turks from Anatolia and baptised as Cypriots doesn't change the dynamics
in Cyprus. As to your belief that history should be left to historians i disagree for the simple reason that
it teaches people about the evolution of the human race in terms of progress, peace, wars , movements etc.What
binds people together is the idea of belonging and this is derived from common history, language, culture and
geography.Your ethnicity is not determined by wishful thinking of who you really are but by empirical evidence based on historical and cultural evolution.

Ok, Vassilis, I probably used the wrong verb saying "annexed". What I wanted to say is that Greece changed its borders many times, in the last 150 years. As about Cyprus, it is an indipendent and sovereign State where the inhabitants declare they are Greeks. So where is the problem? There are Greek citizens and Cyprot citizens and all belong to the same Greek ethnic group, but in two different States.As about history and geography I can tell you for sure that I learned I am Macedonian, not Greek, at home from my parents and grand-parents who told me they were proud Macedonians. Only when I went to primary school, in Edessa, I was told that is very bad to be a slav speaker and that I have to learn ancient greek history because I was a Greek with direct link to the ancient Greeks. I just did not buy it! I prefer to be what my famiiy told me I am! And this is in my human rights and nobody can deny this to me or, worse, to impose to me an identity I feel I do not have, just because the State I leave in is called Greece and the majority of its inhabitants declare ethnicaly, historicaly and geographicaly Greeks.

Good for you Eugenia and i've got no objection on how you feel and who you think you are.The European Human Rights act confers your human rights as well as your responsibilities.It is not one way traffic. You are a slav speaking person living in Macedonia Greece.Since you live in peace and liberty in a democratic country with all
its wonders and faults make the most of it.Refrain yourself from the crude lies and propaganda exercided by
the people of the F.Y.R of Vardar against people like myself.Iam a native of my land and so are millions of
my fellow Greek Macedonians. Our rights are confered to us by our ancestors throughout history.

Yes, dear neighbors. There is a tremendous issue about the name of MAKEDONIA. If you ask a German or a French or a Chinese citizen who knows and respect his history, to accept the name of his ancestors to be used by their northern neighbor, imagine his reaction and compare it with our one. I ensure you that, if there was no war till now between FYROM and Hellenic republic, it is because Greeks are peaceful and very civilized, and they try always to persuade everybody through dialogs respecting all human rights of nations. But do not forget that throughout centuries of glorious Creek history if a nation claimed land and water in any way from Greece, the Creeks knew only one answer: COME AND TRY TO TAKE IT FROM US!!! And all mankind knows how the Greeks fight for their freedom and independence. So don't push it too hard because the time is closing for such an answer. Try to be reasonable and accept the fact that Greeks -although they dissagree- are ready to discuss a familiar name with Macedonia but with geographical characteristics.