“UN mission will visit Serb enclaves”

Serbs in Kosova have isolated themselves because these are the instructions from Belgrade. They must understand that it is in their best interest to be integrated in Kosova institutions rather than listening to Belgrade which encourages them in boycotting tactitcs. They claim to be the as victims without realising that their tactics are old-fashined and unhelpful in the modern Europe.

I just wanted to tell the Serbian people. You are excellent negotiators. Six months ago, it seemed like Kosovo would gain independence. Today, it has never been further away of independence. When UNSC see these poor, barb wire enclaves...Lets see what happens.

Ha-ha-ha , what enclaves is she talking about. I can give a prefect example; Gorazhdevac - they move freely as they please and everyone of them comes Peja to hang out and do shopping. But if that delegation will go there they will say the opposite, like they are locked in sort of camp.Thank God that everybody knows the truth even Russia but is just playing games. The end result will be the same and that is: Kosova and serbia will gain its own Independence from each other, once and for all.Another thing, Please -Princip, Jovan,Kate and other do not make any comment about gorazhdevac because I know better because I live around here as well as i work. Therefore , don't even try your pathetic propaganda. I also, have printed facts about the murder of children while playing near the river, but at that time b92 did not print my coments but I have said that the former Police Commissioner Feller knows the truth.

I can remember how some very smart writers here pointed out, that the UNSC-mission will only be a tourist-trip...

unbelievable, this level of ignorance.

I am interested to see, what those members of the UNSC-mission will think of the KiM-issue, after witnessing how Serbs live in ghetto´s in their own country...

now it revenges that the Albanians chose brutal fanatism instead of reconciliation.

ahmet, ...if you mean those serbian children, that were shot dead while bathing... I think you can bring up as much "printed facts" as you want...

the international media already covered it and they tell the story a little bit different from yours.

it´s shameless how you are trying to belittle albanian crimes against little kids.

calling it that way only shows your cynical approach towards people in need.

UNSC delgation should visit the new mass grave that they already found and see for themself how far Serbia is gone since 90's. About Serb Enclavs don't be too sure because they live better then lots of people in Serbia. One more thing that i heard yesterday about if KFOR needs help fou security, if the do they have SHPK and KLA to help them no serbian police will ever return to Kosova.

The UN mission would have been a farce unless it visited the Serbian ghettos, & it should spend much more than just one day. Yes, the Serbs did isolate themselves. What would anyone do under the same circumstances? Their (Serbs) lives & property are under constant threat from the (so called) democratic, freedom loving, peaceful Albanians who just want peace in the ethnically cleansed Serbian province. Ahmet; are you for real? It's been proven that Serbs had nothing to do with those boys who drowned. Stop beating a dead horse! Telling a lie over & over does not make it any more true! Yes, the Serbs are the victims, Kosovo is Serbian land & Albanians are a minority in Serbia. Yet this minority forces the Majority to live like dogs in their own country! Switching the words Majority & Minority does not fool anyone and frankly am getting sick of that tactic.

Of course EA. "Serbs in Kosova have isolated themselves because these are the instructions from Belgrade."
They are just paranoid to worry when 2,000 innocent civilians have been murdered or kidnapped since Nato 'liberated' Kosovo. Or to take it personally when someone lobs the occasional grenade or stabs the occasional teenager just because they are Serbian. Or to feel victimised when their bus is stoned as they travel to church or to go shopping in your own country.
What paranoia to be worried about these trifling matters.
And, Ahmet, believe me I am far from being a propagandist. Wasn't the story about children drowning because they were being chased by Serbs the basis on which the last attacks against the Serbian community were launched? At the time it was found that there was no substance to those allegations and that the children had drowned while playing.

I hope they visit, the sites of the mass graves of Albanians killed by Serbian forces too.

In any case, this visit seems to be only a face saving strategy for Russia, so they can say to Serbia: Look we tried!

@ Ahment,

Come of it will you? I was with US KFOR for 22 months and have guarded Serb children, returnees, IDPs, and Priests through the province. Tell the people how a few months ago a Serb man was beat up in downtown Decan/Decani because he came from the monastery to buy ice cream for his child.

Look at any urban area of Kosovo and see the destruction of Serb civilian areas, post conflict. There is true and justifiable fear amongst the Serb populace. It is regional though, Serbs move freely through Gnjilane/Gjilan and east with little issues, but I would not take a care with Belgrade plates and park it in Pec/Peje, no thanks!

Ahmet,

Your earlier statements about the 2004 riots have about as much validity as Seselj’s claims that those who committed the crimes in Srebrenica were French sponsored mercenaries training for special genocidal operations in the Congo (He really said that). I’ve seen no facts or anything else to indicate either of these conspiracy theories have anything to support them. While conspiracy theories are often fun to speculate on and I do it often myself, they have no place in a rational discussion of known facts.

I suggest if you wish for normal rational people to believe your statements about Gorazhdevac, don’t follow those statements with wild speculation and conspiracy theories. It really does discredit what otherwise might be an accurate account of someone on the ground. If anything, you’ve convinced me they probably are in danger.

I have to scoff at any of these fact finding missions... They are for the most part impartial... If they wanted to find the facts go to the internationals that have worked Kosovo... Go the UNMIK police who have experienced the true faces of the citizens of Kosovo... true you have good people on both sides... but as a whole it is evident now and in the past that the K.albanians or to be politically correct; Serbian albanians (they were born in Kosovo so that makes them Serbs) shown that they are as a whole uncivilized by their attempts and their threats of violence towards the UN, Internationals and Serbians. Most major crimes that police respond to are that committed by Albanians. How they have fooled the world is far unknown to myself,most Americans and internationals in Kosovo... I had to laugh today when I read in another article that the K. albanians will declare independence by the end of may with or without the UNs approval... can you imagine? The American KFOR alone will slap them back to reality... Terrible!

stop your cinema!because you do not know what serbs do in kosovo ans how they live here:...Don't worry ,each time they need to get some money ,they come in town,among albanians ,without problems,they know then the road to come in town,they then don't fear the albanians,and they take then the buses too!
and i can tell you what they will ask:some years ago they said we don't have houses,we built them houses,we don't have schools,we built schools and public services for them,now they will say we do't have jobs ,and we will just say: we don't have jobs neither for us albanian,nor for you serbs!

Ahmet, the truth will come back to haunt you. You know very well what the Albanians have been hiding for the last 7 years. Now the entire world will see your dirty little secret. Come June (after your leaders "MAY" independence month arrives) your little dream will turn into your worst nightmare. Who will you turn on then? Russia? UN? Nato?

All of you that responded to my comments, I have one thing to tell you: "Why don't you put presure in UN in New York to reveel the truth about the shoting of children while playing near the river", can anybody tell me that UNMIK Police came up with final results of investigation and is naybody doing prison time for that horrable crime?

I should have opened up a barb-wire shops in serbs areas in Kosovo. Sales would be booming.

Im sure many serbs are busy putting barb-wires round their houses now, and trying to teach their kids how to looks scared. ' Now kids, lets practice again: Who are the baddies? Kids: Albanians!'

I am not denying that serbs in Kosovo live in difficult conditions, but a lot of times they are exagaratted, and they will be ten fold for this fact-finding mission.

Most of the people that comment on the condition of serbs in Kosovo have never even been there, or at least not recently.

I've heard many serbs in Prishtina speaking serbian, and they are free to walk and do whatever.

Also, I've been in Gracanica many times and Serbs do whatever they want.

2000 serbs killed since 1999????? Where do you get that figure!! Where are the bodies? If serbs were getting killed daily, how come its not on the news? Let me guess CIA cencorship?

Kate- maybe you are getting confused with Iraq.

Ahmet, To be honest with you there is no hard evidence that leads to a suspect or suspects... But rest assured the Internationals have stated on many occasions that they suspect Albanians committed this crime themselves as an excuse to lash out at the Serbs... At first I found it hard to believe... but after working there for two years and seeing what I have seen... I find it easy to believe...

“Most of the people that comment on the condition of serbs in Kosovo have never even been there, or at least not recently.” (nikshala, Monday, 23 April, 2007, 16:16)

Nikshala, both Anthony and Jake work for KFOR. They sound like credible witnesses to me.

If things are so good for Serbians there, why was “Standards before Status” abandoned? Why do the vast majority of international reports of the conditions there shed a negative light on the conditions Serbians live under?

Let’s face the facts, both sides have a deep history of abusing the other side when they are in “charge” of the region.

Personally I feel that the whole issue should be put on hold until the rights of minorities are respected in Kosovo by both sides. I do honestly feel that currently the Serbian government does a better job respecting their minorities then the Kosovar government.

Mathew

One of the reasons why standards before status was droped, was because in reality it does not work that way. Theoretically it sound good though. The whole aim of "standards before status' was to delay the final status desicion. However most of the standards are dependent on the status itself!

One of the standards was eceonomic development. You cannot acheive economic development when the political status is unstable and uncertain: lack of foregin investment, lack loans from World Bank and international organisations etc etc. Econimical development would help fight corruption, unemployment, security etc.

The status uncertainty is a great barrier between albanian and serbian community, increasing the tension between the two, thus making the imporvement of this standard almost impossible. It is difficult to integrate serbs in Kosovo community when they still hope that Kosovo will remain within Serbia.

The Kosovan institution are making an effort to accomodate the Serbs in the Kosovo scene, especially Agim Ceku, whatever you might think of him. The problems lies within the averge albanian and serb, and the mistrust between the two.

Plus the majority of serbs refuse to take part in anything coming from Kosovo, because they want to be part of Serbia. YOu can't force them to integrate.


But it is true, some serbs do live in difficult conditions. I am not denying that. Few Albanians that live in the north of Ibar live in the same dificult conditions as well.

I do not think delaying the status will do anything to improve the position of minorites. If anything it will make it much worse.

The UNSC mission will see some Serb enclaves, they will meet some Kosovar leaders, they will visit Belgrade. However, a quick read of this series of postings makes me doubt they will find "facts" - facts in this conflict only reveal the truth as the teller sees it. Every side has their own facts.

Serbs in Kosova have isolated themselves because these are the instructions from Belgrade. They must understand that it is in their best interest to be integrated in Kosova institutions rather than listening to Belgrade which encourages them in boycotting tactitcs. They claim to be the as victims without realising that their tactics are old-fashined and unhelpful in the modern Europe.

I just wanted to tell the Serbian people. You are excellent negotiators. Six months ago, it seemed like Kosovo would gain independence. Today, it has never been further away of independence. When UNSC see these poor, barb wire enclaves...Lets see what happens.

Ha-ha-ha , what enclaves is she talking about. I can give a prefect example; Gorazhdevac - they move freely as they please and everyone of them comes Peja to hang out and do shopping. But if that delegation will go there they will say the opposite, like they are locked in sort of camp.Thank God that everybody knows the truth even Russia but is just playing games. The end result will be the same and that is: Kosova and serbia will gain its own Independence from each other, once and for all.Another thing, Please -Princip, Jovan,Kate and other do not make any comment about gorazhdevac because I know better because I live around here as well as i work. Therefore , don't even try your pathetic propaganda. I also, have printed facts about the murder of children while playing near the river, but at that time b92 did not print my coments but I have said that the former Police Commissioner Feller knows the truth.

I can remember how some very smart writers here pointed out, that the UNSC-mission will only be a tourist-trip...

unbelievable, this level of ignorance.

I am interested to see, what those members of the UNSC-mission will think of the KiM-issue, after witnessing how Serbs live in ghetto´s in their own country...

now it revenges that the Albanians chose brutal fanatism instead of reconciliation.

ahmet, ...if you mean those serbian children, that were shot dead while bathing... I think you can bring up as much "printed facts" as you want...

the international media already covered it and they tell the story a little bit different from yours.

it´s shameless how you are trying to belittle albanian crimes against little kids.

calling it that way only shows your cynical approach towards people in need.

UNSC delgation should visit the new mass grave that they already found and see for themself how far Serbia is gone since 90's. About Serb Enclavs don't be too sure because they live better then lots of people in Serbia. One more thing that i heard yesterday about if KFOR needs help fou security, if the do they have SHPK and KLA to help them no serbian police will ever return to Kosova.

The UN mission would have been a farce unless it visited the Serbian ghettos, & it should spend much more than just one day. Yes, the Serbs did isolate themselves. What would anyone do under the same circumstances? Their (Serbs) lives & property are under constant threat from the (so called) democratic, freedom loving, peaceful Albanians who just want peace in the ethnically cleansed Serbian province. Ahmet; are you for real? It's been proven that Serbs had nothing to do with those boys who drowned. Stop beating a dead horse! Telling a lie over & over does not make it any more true! Yes, the Serbs are the victims, Kosovo is Serbian land & Albanians are a minority in Serbia. Yet this minority forces the Majority to live like dogs in their own country! Switching the words Majority & Minority does not fool anyone and frankly am getting sick of that tactic.

Of course EA. "Serbs in Kosova have isolated themselves because these are the instructions from Belgrade."
They are just paranoid to worry when 2,000 innocent civilians have been murdered or kidnapped since Nato 'liberated' Kosovo. Or to take it personally when someone lobs the occasional grenade or stabs the occasional teenager just because they are Serbian. Or to feel victimised when their bus is stoned as they travel to church or to go shopping in your own country.
What paranoia to be worried about these trifling matters.
And, Ahmet, believe me I am far from being a propagandist. Wasn't the story about children drowning because they were being chased by Serbs the basis on which the last attacks against the Serbian community were launched? At the time it was found that there was no substance to those allegations and that the children had drowned while playing.

I hope they visit, the sites of the mass graves of Albanians killed by Serbian forces too.

In any case, this visit seems to be only a face saving strategy for Russia, so they can say to Serbia: Look we tried!

@ Ahment,

Come of it will you? I was with US KFOR for 22 months and have guarded Serb children, returnees, IDPs, and Priests through the province. Tell the people how a few months ago a Serb man was beat up in downtown Decan/Decani because he came from the monastery to buy ice cream for his child.

Look at any urban area of Kosovo and see the destruction of Serb civilian areas, post conflict. There is true and justifiable fear amongst the Serb populace. It is regional though, Serbs move freely through Gnjilane/Gjilan and east with little issues, but I would not take a care with Belgrade plates and park it in Pec/Peje, no thanks!

Ahmet,

Your earlier statements about the 2004 riots have about as much validity as Seselj’s claims that those who committed the crimes in Srebrenica were French sponsored mercenaries training for special genocidal operations in the Congo (He really said that). I’ve seen no facts or anything else to indicate either of these conspiracy theories have anything to support them. While conspiracy theories are often fun to speculate on and I do it often myself, they have no place in a rational discussion of known facts.

I suggest if you wish for normal rational people to believe your statements about Gorazhdevac, don’t follow those statements with wild speculation and conspiracy theories. It really does discredit what otherwise might be an accurate account of someone on the ground. If anything, you’ve convinced me they probably are in danger.

I have to scoff at any of these fact finding missions... They are for the most part impartial... If they wanted to find the facts go to the internationals that have worked Kosovo... Go the UNMIK police who have experienced the true faces of the citizens of Kosovo... true you have good people on both sides... but as a whole it is evident now and in the past that the K.albanians or to be politically correct; Serbian albanians (they were born in Kosovo so that makes them Serbs) shown that they are as a whole uncivilized by their attempts and their threats of violence towards the UN, Internationals and Serbians. Most major crimes that police respond to are that committed by Albanians. How they have fooled the world is far unknown to myself,most Americans and internationals in Kosovo... I had to laugh today when I read in another article that the K. albanians will declare independence by the end of may with or without the UNs approval... can you imagine? The American KFOR alone will slap them back to reality... Terrible!

stop your cinema!because you do not know what serbs do in kosovo ans how they live here:...Don't worry ,each time they need to get some money ,they come in town,among albanians ,without problems,they know then the road to come in town,they then don't fear the albanians,and they take then the buses too!
and i can tell you what they will ask:some years ago they said we don't have houses,we built them houses,we don't have schools,we built schools and public services for them,now they will say we do't have jobs ,and we will just say: we don't have jobs neither for us albanian,nor for you serbs!

Ahmet, the truth will come back to haunt you. You know very well what the Albanians have been hiding for the last 7 years. Now the entire world will see your dirty little secret. Come June (after your leaders "MAY" independence month arrives) your little dream will turn into your worst nightmare. Who will you turn on then? Russia? UN? Nato?

All of you that responded to my comments, I have one thing to tell you: "Why don't you put presure in UN in New York to reveel the truth about the shoting of children while playing near the river", can anybody tell me that UNMIK Police came up with final results of investigation and is naybody doing prison time for that horrable crime?

I should have opened up a barb-wire shops in serbs areas in Kosovo. Sales would be booming.

Im sure many serbs are busy putting barb-wires round their houses now, and trying to teach their kids how to looks scared. ' Now kids, lets practice again: Who are the baddies? Kids: Albanians!'

I am not denying that serbs in Kosovo live in difficult conditions, but a lot of times they are exagaratted, and they will be ten fold for this fact-finding mission.

Most of the people that comment on the condition of serbs in Kosovo have never even been there, or at least not recently.

I've heard many serbs in Prishtina speaking serbian, and they are free to walk and do whatever.

Also, I've been in Gracanica many times and Serbs do whatever they want.

2000 serbs killed since 1999????? Where do you get that figure!! Where are the bodies? If serbs were getting killed daily, how come its not on the news? Let me guess CIA cencorship?

Kate- maybe you are getting confused with Iraq.

Ahmet, To be honest with you there is no hard evidence that leads to a suspect or suspects... But rest assured the Internationals have stated on many occasions that they suspect Albanians committed this crime themselves as an excuse to lash out at the Serbs... At first I found it hard to believe... but after working there for two years and seeing what I have seen... I find it easy to believe...

“Most of the people that comment on the condition of serbs in Kosovo have never even been there, or at least not recently.” (nikshala, Monday, 23 April, 2007, 16:16)

Nikshala, both Anthony and Jake work for KFOR. They sound like credible witnesses to me.

If things are so good for Serbians there, why was “Standards before Status” abandoned? Why do the vast majority of international reports of the conditions there shed a negative light on the conditions Serbians live under?

Let’s face the facts, both sides have a deep history of abusing the other side when they are in “charge” of the region.

Personally I feel that the whole issue should be put on hold until the rights of minorities are respected in Kosovo by both sides. I do honestly feel that currently the Serbian government does a better job respecting their minorities then the Kosovar government.

Mathew

One of the reasons why standards before status was droped, was because in reality it does not work that way. Theoretically it sound good though. The whole aim of "standards before status' was to delay the final status desicion. However most of the standards are dependent on the status itself!

One of the standards was eceonomic development. You cannot acheive economic development when the political status is unstable and uncertain: lack of foregin investment, lack loans from World Bank and international organisations etc etc. Econimical development would help fight corruption, unemployment, security etc.

The status uncertainty is a great barrier between albanian and serbian community, increasing the tension between the two, thus making the imporvement of this standard almost impossible. It is difficult to integrate serbs in Kosovo community when they still hope that Kosovo will remain within Serbia.

The Kosovan institution are making an effort to accomodate the Serbs in the Kosovo scene, especially Agim Ceku, whatever you might think of him. The problems lies within the averge albanian and serb, and the mistrust between the two.

Plus the majority of serbs refuse to take part in anything coming from Kosovo, because they want to be part of Serbia. YOu can't force them to integrate.


But it is true, some serbs do live in difficult conditions. I am not denying that. Few Albanians that live in the north of Ibar live in the same dificult conditions as well.

I do not think delaying the status will do anything to improve the position of minorites. If anything it will make it much worse.

The UNSC mission will see some Serb enclaves, they will meet some Kosovar leaders, they will visit Belgrade. However, a quick read of this series of postings makes me doubt they will find "facts" - facts in this conflict only reveal the truth as the teller sees it. Every side has their own facts.