Koštunica: Ahtisaari made cardinal mistake

I believe that there is and must be an alternative to conflict. That alternative can only be found in real and true discussions that must be allowed to take place. Only by considering all alternatives fully can one say there is no other alternative but imposition.

All those who are like minded (what ever your ethnicity) are welcome to get in touch via email

principuk@hotmail.co.uk

I think it is time for the next stage of talks and as such I realise that others might be interested in discussing in a different forum.

With all due respect Mr. Princip, I have never seen anybody to be off mark on every article published regarding Kosovo/a. It seems to me that you are so obsesed with serbian propaganda that is not funny any more.

I agree.
I can be reached via lazslow@hotmail.com

When there is no alternative present...the next thing is unfortunately war. I think that the arrogance that the West has used in this "mediation" if you can call it that has only stirred people up even more.

Princip, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I just don't understand - I have two questions that perhaps you can answer. What makes you think more talks will change the diametrically opposed stands of Pristina and Belgrade? And, why do Serbian leaders insist on "real" talks now - isn't anyone in Serbia upset that their leaders didn't really talk during the year-and-a-half they were meeting with Ahtisaari and the Kosovo team? I would be mad !

Time for compromise, we are advocating that. Serbia has peace to gain, but non-acceptance of compromise and violence against Serbs and Serbia will be a gross miscalculation and will not last.

If anybody tries to snatch 100% of Kosovo and denies Serbian rights, the Serbians will heat up to the point where no one can touch us and we become the masters of our destiny.

i don't know how can serbian citezens belive you when you was the only 1 to say that the Attisari plan has faild after the first meting at UN he is lying open and u still belive him

Koštunica is quite right. Mr.Ahtisaari did a quite bad job, but he was not expected to "deliver" a better one, since he is an ICG-guy...

maybe they can discuss the return of displaced persons from Republika Srpska too.

Dear Friends
-Do you think that Serbia has right to hang-on the fate of 2 million people living at their place in Kosovo since milliners?
When is the question of the territories - It belongs to peoples that live there. Serbia has occupied Kosovo after 1st WW. Didn't know to manage and treat the people of Kosovo in the civilized and human way. It’s already been one century. How many victims has fall at this colony?
So dear Serbian peoples open your eyes and think on the intellectual way.
-Do you agree that Serbia has right to keep in hostage the stability of the Balkans and Europe even after the war that causes the death of hundred thousand innocent peoples in the former Yugoslavia.
-You don't think that is enough? You don't think that the peoples of Serbia are sick of being considered like criminals, killers etc...
-Why you don't give a chance to peace and reconciliation by accepting the Kosova peoples as ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life at their place with their neighbors.
-Why the Serbian government has no plan for Kosovo, and just rejects the existing plan?

I'm afraid that when the people of Serbia understand who is playing with their fate, it will be too late to repair the damages. Once it was with Milosevic and now with Kostunica. Is the same politic just another farce?
-Why Serbian government didn't consider seriously the independence of Kosovo?
-Why didn’t explain to their peoples the reason of that possibility of independence?
-Do the Kosova Albanians position was unknown?
-Did the government of Serbia offered any other real solution so satisfy the Kosova Albanians to abandon the option of independence?

There are lots of mistakes of the Serbian government that bring them to this unlikely position in the face of their electors.

How do they suppose to keep Kosovo? With what? No diplomacy, no plan, no international support, no money?

The only card that Serbian government is playing is the UN chart of the territory sovereignty and paying with mythology and other lullabies.
This is not enough because:
-Everybody knows how Serbia brings Kosovo within the borders.
-Everybody knows what Serbian government did in Kosovo.
-Everybody knows that Serbia manipulate the Serbian minority in Kosovo and their apartheid role in Kosovo before 1999.
-Everybody knows that Serbia is seeking for Kosovo only about the natural resources.
-Everybody knows that Serbia want to destabilize Kosovo.

The Game is over.
All that Serbia has to do (If want to keep the head up and save the face) is to recognize the crimes against Albanians and accept their right for independence, to bring the criminals to the justice, to build good relations with the new state of Kosova.
This will be the best way also to protect the Serbian minority in Kosovo and the cultural and religious richest in that place.
I know that this won’t happen. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. I know the mentality of Balkan peoples...

It’s just to give a chance to long-term peace in the region.

Best regards
albanianlegend@hotmail.com

To Albanian legend, Kosovo (not Kosova)has never been a country. It was not one of the six republics that made up Jugoslavia, instead it was a region of Serbia. So don't say that the Serbs conquered Kosovo after WWI, because that is not a correct statement to make. Secondly the Serbians fought againt the KLA, who were insurgents demanding independence on Serbian soil. Both sides are guilty of killing, the Albanians' hands are not clean, as you imply that the Serbs were the only ones doing the killing (Where are the mass graves?). They can't come to a compromise because the Albanians won't compromise, they wont accept anything less than independence. If they get independence the Serbs then lose 15% of their land, which is completely unacceptable (If the roles were reversed and there were 2 million Serbs living in Albania demanding independence I'm sure you would call us Serbs names and tell us to leave your land, because it is not ours). So independence is out of the question, real talks are necessary between the Serbs and Albanians where Kosovo can have its own government and the right to speak Albanian in Serbia. But they cannot form an army (Because of the Attacks March '04) they can't have a flag or a national anthem and so on. There needs to be a COMPROMISE where both parties give something and then get something in return. If Kosovo gains independence then the Albanians get a 2nd country at the expense of the Serbs, which is not a compromise. The 2 sides have lived together before and they can again, but a COMPROMISE is needed, not the Albanians getting everything that they want or threatening with violence, we can come to a compromise where the Albanians have guaranteed rights within Serbia's borders.

Ana,

To answer your questions.

Ahtisaari’s discussions did not include some of the most plausible solutions such as partition. Every option must be on the table if we are to fully explore all the possibilities.

Also, while the West is promising full Independence to all of Kosovo if a compromise is not found, the Albanians have absolutely no motivation to even engage in any sort of negotiations.

While the current positions of the respective governments may be diametrically opposed, the needs of the people on the ground are not.

In addition, I and many others, feel Ahtisaari viewed his role as negotiating the terms of Kosovo Independence and not what the final status would be.

So, in answer to question number 1. Having all options on the table will give the best chance of a compromise between the two positions.

I answer to question number 2. I personally think the Serbian government did the best job possible in light of the conditions mandated by Ahtisaari. The end result of their peaceful diplomacy are serious questions about Ahtisaari’s plan in the international community. This is light years ahead of the style of diplomacy utilized by Milosevic and his cronies and far more effective. They should be applauded for their peaceful, consistent and diplomatic approach to the issue. Once Ahtisaari’s plan fails in the UNSC, a serious discussion on all the possible status outcomes will occur. Its time for some creative thinking right now. Its obvious that the best chance for future stability and peace in the region is an agreement supported by both sides.

Given the history of the region over the last 100 years, it seems obvious to me that the violence has gone back and forth on a regular basis depending on who is in “charge” of that region. Neither side has shown the capacity to respect the rights of their respective minorities.

To me partition seems the most logical and practical solution for now. I would very much like to hear from Albanians who have other ideas that might possibly find support in the moderate elements of both our societies.

If the region is to move forward and prosper, we must learn to work together and solve our issues maturely in a diplomatic fashion.

Ana and M.Miller are certainly internalizing the talking points of the Albanian public relations machine quite thoroughly. The so-called negotiations started with the conclusion that Kosovo would be independent, and that made the talks illegitimate and unreasonable. Secondly, it is against international law to dismember a UN State against its will. Kosovo is Serbian territory by law and history, and your romanticm of the Albanian cause is based on ignorance of the situation and gullibility. Under no circumstances would the US allow the original thirteen states to secede, even if 100% of the population demanded it. Just look at 19th Century South Carolina. Your attacks on Princip are hollow and absurd.

Dear Matthew

Please be honest in some things:
Kosova belongs to all habitants, (Albanians didn't fall from the sky) and is NOT serbian territory. For example you can occupy a territory of Africa and tell - oh yes is Serbian territory, here are some churches and some Serbian living here. Serbia is too small and too poor to keep any colony in the heart of Europe.
The truth is different.
Kosovo was consecutive part of the puzzle of Yugoslavia with the same role as other 6 republics till the time when Serbia illegally suspend that autonomy and put Kosova by force within her borders.

You can not compares the serbian crime in Kosova at 1998 and 1999 when the official Serbian uniforms killed more than 15.000 innocent peoples with the propaganda that they are killing the "terrorists”. In the same time they killed and put out of their homes about 1000000 Albanians. Isn’t that a fascist act? That’s the reason of bombing Serbia because nobody of Serbian politics didn't act to stop those ethnic cleanings. Some Serbian peoples (peoples like you) still believe that propaganda even after 8 years later. It’s impossible to balance the criminal acts that Serbian official forces did in Kosova with some particular acts against Serbians (that contributed at the ethnic ceasing) in Kosova. The Serbian crime goes too far. The fear of Albanians from Serbian regime will never let the Albanians to turn back under that regime that don’t regret what he did to them and is not able to offer any real compromise. It’s just like to say to someone: “come back here and let me fight you again, again and again whenever I want”. So mister Matthew, You believe that your “compromise” will work?
I don’t think so.
Kosovar Albanians have strong support from the biggest powers in the world, NATO, USA and EU. It’s really slimly to imagine any kind of turning back of Kosova under that Serbian government.

The real compromise is: Recognition of the independence of Kosova and to deliver the SAME rights that the Serbians have in Kosovo, to Albanians in the valley of Presheva, recognition of the borders between Serbia and Kosova and free circulations of citizens without matter of ethnicity by mutual respect.

Best regards from your Kosovar neighbor.
albanianlegend@hotmail.com

Sorry but the last comment was addressed to Milos and not to Matthew.
Best regards.

To Albanian Legend
Kosovo has been a part of Serbia since the creation of the Kingdom of Serbia, so yes it is Serbian territory. I am not going to argue with an individual who does not respect international law. If you do not want to admit to an irrefutable fact that Kosovo is Serbian, then there is no reason for us to communicate any further. You can go spread your Albanian propaganda to others, because I do not want to hear it anymore. And by the way, the total dead was 10,000, not the 15,000 that you claim, and that 10,000 includes deaths from both sides, so when you argue use legit numbers.

I believe that there is and must be an alternative to conflict. That alternative can only be found in real and true discussions that must be allowed to take place. Only by considering all alternatives fully can one say there is no other alternative but imposition.

All those who are like minded (what ever your ethnicity) are welcome to get in touch via email

principuk@hotmail.co.uk

I think it is time for the next stage of talks and as such I realise that others might be interested in discussing in a different forum.

With all due respect Mr. Princip, I have never seen anybody to be off mark on every article published regarding Kosovo/a. It seems to me that you are so obsesed with serbian propaganda that is not funny any more.

I agree.
I can be reached via lazslow@hotmail.com

When there is no alternative present...the next thing is unfortunately war. I think that the arrogance that the West has used in this "mediation" if you can call it that has only stirred people up even more.

Princip, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I just don't understand - I have two questions that perhaps you can answer. What makes you think more talks will change the diametrically opposed stands of Pristina and Belgrade? And, why do Serbian leaders insist on "real" talks now - isn't anyone in Serbia upset that their leaders didn't really talk during the year-and-a-half they were meeting with Ahtisaari and the Kosovo team? I would be mad !

Time for compromise, we are advocating that. Serbia has peace to gain, but non-acceptance of compromise and violence against Serbs and Serbia will be a gross miscalculation and will not last.

If anybody tries to snatch 100% of Kosovo and denies Serbian rights, the Serbians will heat up to the point where no one can touch us and we become the masters of our destiny.

i don't know how can serbian citezens belive you when you was the only 1 to say that the Attisari plan has faild after the first meting at UN he is lying open and u still belive him

Koštunica is quite right. Mr.Ahtisaari did a quite bad job, but he was not expected to "deliver" a better one, since he is an ICG-guy...

maybe they can discuss the return of displaced persons from Republika Srpska too.

Dear Friends
-Do you think that Serbia has right to hang-on the fate of 2 million people living at their place in Kosovo since milliners?
When is the question of the territories - It belongs to peoples that live there. Serbia has occupied Kosovo after 1st WW. Didn't know to manage and treat the people of Kosovo in the civilized and human way. It’s already been one century. How many victims has fall at this colony?
So dear Serbian peoples open your eyes and think on the intellectual way.
-Do you agree that Serbia has right to keep in hostage the stability of the Balkans and Europe even after the war that causes the death of hundred thousand innocent peoples in the former Yugoslavia.
-You don't think that is enough? You don't think that the peoples of Serbia are sick of being considered like criminals, killers etc...
-Why you don't give a chance to peace and reconciliation by accepting the Kosova peoples as ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life at their place with their neighbors.
-Why the Serbian government has no plan for Kosovo, and just rejects the existing plan?

I'm afraid that when the people of Serbia understand who is playing with their fate, it will be too late to repair the damages. Once it was with Milosevic and now with Kostunica. Is the same politic just another farce?
-Why Serbian government didn't consider seriously the independence of Kosovo?
-Why didn’t explain to their peoples the reason of that possibility of independence?
-Do the Kosova Albanians position was unknown?
-Did the government of Serbia offered any other real solution so satisfy the Kosova Albanians to abandon the option of independence?

There are lots of mistakes of the Serbian government that bring them to this unlikely position in the face of their electors.

How do they suppose to keep Kosovo? With what? No diplomacy, no plan, no international support, no money?

The only card that Serbian government is playing is the UN chart of the territory sovereignty and paying with mythology and other lullabies.
This is not enough because:
-Everybody knows how Serbia brings Kosovo within the borders.
-Everybody knows what Serbian government did in Kosovo.
-Everybody knows that Serbia manipulate the Serbian minority in Kosovo and their apartheid role in Kosovo before 1999.
-Everybody knows that Serbia is seeking for Kosovo only about the natural resources.
-Everybody knows that Serbia want to destabilize Kosovo.

The Game is over.
All that Serbia has to do (If want to keep the head up and save the face) is to recognize the crimes against Albanians and accept their right for independence, to bring the criminals to the justice, to build good relations with the new state of Kosova.
This will be the best way also to protect the Serbian minority in Kosovo and the cultural and religious richest in that place.
I know that this won’t happen. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. I know the mentality of Balkan peoples...

It’s just to give a chance to long-term peace in the region.

Best regards
albanianlegend@hotmail.com

To Albanian legend, Kosovo (not Kosova)has never been a country. It was not one of the six republics that made up Jugoslavia, instead it was a region of Serbia. So don't say that the Serbs conquered Kosovo after WWI, because that is not a correct statement to make. Secondly the Serbians fought againt the KLA, who were insurgents demanding independence on Serbian soil. Both sides are guilty of killing, the Albanians' hands are not clean, as you imply that the Serbs were the only ones doing the killing (Where are the mass graves?). They can't come to a compromise because the Albanians won't compromise, they wont accept anything less than independence. If they get independence the Serbs then lose 15% of their land, which is completely unacceptable (If the roles were reversed and there were 2 million Serbs living in Albania demanding independence I'm sure you would call us Serbs names and tell us to leave your land, because it is not ours). So independence is out of the question, real talks are necessary between the Serbs and Albanians where Kosovo can have its own government and the right to speak Albanian in Serbia. But they cannot form an army (Because of the Attacks March '04) they can't have a flag or a national anthem and so on. There needs to be a COMPROMISE where both parties give something and then get something in return. If Kosovo gains independence then the Albanians get a 2nd country at the expense of the Serbs, which is not a compromise. The 2 sides have lived together before and they can again, but a COMPROMISE is needed, not the Albanians getting everything that they want or threatening with violence, we can come to a compromise where the Albanians have guaranteed rights within Serbia's borders.

Ana,

To answer your questions.

Ahtisaari’s discussions did not include some of the most plausible solutions such as partition. Every option must be on the table if we are to fully explore all the possibilities.

Also, while the West is promising full Independence to all of Kosovo if a compromise is not found, the Albanians have absolutely no motivation to even engage in any sort of negotiations.

While the current positions of the respective governments may be diametrically opposed, the needs of the people on the ground are not.

In addition, I and many others, feel Ahtisaari viewed his role as negotiating the terms of Kosovo Independence and not what the final status would be.

So, in answer to question number 1. Having all options on the table will give the best chance of a compromise between the two positions.

I answer to question number 2. I personally think the Serbian government did the best job possible in light of the conditions mandated by Ahtisaari. The end result of their peaceful diplomacy are serious questions about Ahtisaari’s plan in the international community. This is light years ahead of the style of diplomacy utilized by Milosevic and his cronies and far more effective. They should be applauded for their peaceful, consistent and diplomatic approach to the issue. Once Ahtisaari’s plan fails in the UNSC, a serious discussion on all the possible status outcomes will occur. Its time for some creative thinking right now. Its obvious that the best chance for future stability and peace in the region is an agreement supported by both sides.

Given the history of the region over the last 100 years, it seems obvious to me that the violence has gone back and forth on a regular basis depending on who is in “charge” of that region. Neither side has shown the capacity to respect the rights of their respective minorities.

To me partition seems the most logical and practical solution for now. I would very much like to hear from Albanians who have other ideas that might possibly find support in the moderate elements of both our societies.

If the region is to move forward and prosper, we must learn to work together and solve our issues maturely in a diplomatic fashion.

Ana and M.Miller are certainly internalizing the talking points of the Albanian public relations machine quite thoroughly. The so-called negotiations started with the conclusion that Kosovo would be independent, and that made the talks illegitimate and unreasonable. Secondly, it is against international law to dismember a UN State against its will. Kosovo is Serbian territory by law and history, and your romanticm of the Albanian cause is based on ignorance of the situation and gullibility. Under no circumstances would the US allow the original thirteen states to secede, even if 100% of the population demanded it. Just look at 19th Century South Carolina. Your attacks on Princip are hollow and absurd.

Dear Matthew

Please be honest in some things:
Kosova belongs to all habitants, (Albanians didn't fall from the sky) and is NOT serbian territory. For example you can occupy a territory of Africa and tell - oh yes is Serbian territory, here are some churches and some Serbian living here. Serbia is too small and too poor to keep any colony in the heart of Europe.
The truth is different.
Kosovo was consecutive part of the puzzle of Yugoslavia with the same role as other 6 republics till the time when Serbia illegally suspend that autonomy and put Kosova by force within her borders.

You can not compares the serbian crime in Kosova at 1998 and 1999 when the official Serbian uniforms killed more than 15.000 innocent peoples with the propaganda that they are killing the "terrorists”. In the same time they killed and put out of their homes about 1000000 Albanians. Isn’t that a fascist act? That’s the reason of bombing Serbia because nobody of Serbian politics didn't act to stop those ethnic cleanings. Some Serbian peoples (peoples like you) still believe that propaganda even after 8 years later. It’s impossible to balance the criminal acts that Serbian official forces did in Kosova with some particular acts against Serbians (that contributed at the ethnic ceasing) in Kosova. The Serbian crime goes too far. The fear of Albanians from Serbian regime will never let the Albanians to turn back under that regime that don’t regret what he did to them and is not able to offer any real compromise. It’s just like to say to someone: “come back here and let me fight you again, again and again whenever I want”. So mister Matthew, You believe that your “compromise” will work?
I don’t think so.
Kosovar Albanians have strong support from the biggest powers in the world, NATO, USA and EU. It’s really slimly to imagine any kind of turning back of Kosova under that Serbian government.

The real compromise is: Recognition of the independence of Kosova and to deliver the SAME rights that the Serbians have in Kosovo, to Albanians in the valley of Presheva, recognition of the borders between Serbia and Kosova and free circulations of citizens without matter of ethnicity by mutual respect.

Best regards from your Kosovar neighbor.
albanianlegend@hotmail.com

Sorry but the last comment was addressed to Milos and not to Matthew.
Best regards.

To Albanian Legend
Kosovo has been a part of Serbia since the creation of the Kingdom of Serbia, so yes it is Serbian territory. I am not going to argue with an individual who does not respect international law. If you do not want to admit to an irrefutable fact that Kosovo is Serbian, then there is no reason for us to communicate any further. You can go spread your Albanian propaganda to others, because I do not want to hear it anymore. And by the way, the total dead was 10,000, not the 15,000 that you claim, and that 10,000 includes deaths from both sides, so when you argue use legit numbers.