Zobel apologizes, government sends protest

thanks to MR. Zobel for bringing up some real facts about the situation on the ground.
Serbia is only wasting its time with leaders like Kostunica and myths about kosova.
Kosova was in fact occupied by Serbia in 1912 and this is known very well, except that against this, people like Kostunica and Princip here have some proof based on myths.
There is no other way but an INDEPENDENT KOSOVA.

I've never heard such contradictory and stupid statements ever. His argument is just inconsistent. The German government should be wrapping his knuckles over such a naive statement.

So Serbs and Albanians cant live together? So whats Ahtisaari trying to do then with the Serb population in Kosovo?

Are we not actually supposed to be trying to live together. If Mr.Zoble says face it we cant live together, then should we go to war instead?

His views set a precedent for basing international borders on ethnic lines!!!

Crikey, that stinks of fascism!

And, when Kosovo is recognised (no doubt with Germany at the front of the queue), lets signal everyone else to secede, Moldavia, Georgia to name but a few.

naive, simply naive and no help to anyone

"Andreas Zobel said Wednesday than if Kosovo falls short of independence, “problems in Vojvodina and Sandžak might flare up.”"

And if independence is [illegally] granted, then problems will flare up in the south of Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, to name but a few. Plus they are more likely to flare up in places like Vojvodina if Kosovo DOES get independence.

This entire speel from Zobel sound exactly like a veiled threat to me.

It is absolutely outrageous that a serving ambassador should speak in this manner. This goes far beyond anything said by the British or US ambassadors. Apart from the offensive nature of his comments about Serbia's leaders, including Tadic, his implied threat about Sandzak and Vojvodina, despite claims to the contrary, represents an unprecedented questioning of Serbian territorial integrity.

By all accounts, Belgrade should insist on his departure. However, I have a feeling that this is exactly what he is hoping to see happen. Still, I would do it and have Tadic make it clear to the other EU member states that his comments represented a fundamental threat to Serbia's political stability as it quite clearly undermined the attempts to from a new administration and played into the hands of Serbian nationalists who believed that Germany was intent on breaking up the country.

Mr Zorbel's comments are ridiculous. The fact is that Serbian territorial integrity should be just as firmly held up by international law as German, Finnish, Spanish or Russian territorial integrity. All countries have minorities. If we were to start granting independence to each of them then the European state system as it has been created in 20th century would fall apart, and we would be faced by countless wars and bloodshed.

The facts are that Serbia won Kosovo during the Balkan Wars in 1912-1913. The majority of the population was then Serb, and she had every right to claim the region. There is no doubt that as result of Tito's, Milosevic's and NATO's misguided policies a 'special situation' now exists in Kosovo. The majority are Albanian and I dont see how Serbia could re-intergrate the Albanians.

However, while the Albanians do have a case- in that perhaps they should be allowed to go their own way, then so do the Serbs. Serbia is the legal owner of Kosovo, and there is also a Kosovo-Serb minority which does not want independence. I think a mutually agreed division of the Serbian province would be the fairest and best way forward for both parties. This would allow the Kosovo Abanians to go their own way, while respecting (to an extent) the wishes and rights of the Kosovo Serbs(whether they live in Kosovo at present or are refugees in Serbia) and The Serbian Republic.

Thats true MR Ambassador, Serbian Government should focus on not loosing Vojvodina and Sanxhak in a years to come, not wasting time with Kosovo. Kosovo was occupied by serbs in 1912, Vojvodina in 1918, Kosovo in 1974 become a constitutional part of ex Yugoslavia with its own borders, parliament,etc., at the time had a President (MR Sinan Hasani), so and Vojvodina (Im not sure was the same year as Kosovo or before). Kosovo and Vojvodina in 1989 were taken those rights by Milosevic regime, without even asking for referendum or parlament of Kosovo and Vojvodina that time. Finally Kosovars gained independent in 1999 after Nato entered Kosovo, after years of apartheid from Serbia, next turn will be Vojvodina's to do that, and I think they are waiting for the right time and moment to do just that, get Independent.
Cheers Mr Ambassador

I am glad that the German ambassador as well as the American and British one are beggining to understand the reality behind the Kosovo issue.

And i feel sorry for the Serbian leadership who are trying to use the same tricks that they used during the Berlin and London Conferences in 1880 and 1913.

Thank You Mr. Zobel

As a citizen of Kosova, I, in the name of Kosova, honor you with the award: Honored Citizen of Kosova.
It seems that politicians are getting itno the tracks finally.
Goodbye Serbia
See You in EU

This artical fuels the point of view of the Muslims living in Kosovo. Afrim Hoxha. I ask you. What is the purpose of this article. Is it to inform. Or simply provoke? and furthermore, what will independance of Kosovo really achive for the current people living in the province?

It is a pity that Serbia is unable to exercise what the Russians did in Chechnya and capitulate the current criminal Provisional Government. Over 25% of Albanians do not want to see an Independent Kosovo, it is being forced upon them, so that American, Britain and EU can say mission accomplished. Why are western governments immature and unwilling to accepting responsibility of wrongdoing; why not leave the issue similarly to the Ottomans (1878); Germany/Italy (1943); Tito (1974) and for the fourth and final time give broad autonomy and sever the criminal heads. Three times in the recent past Albanians have tried to realise Independence and failed. So, will western members push for full independence, rather than succumb to a barrage of questions from blinded policy makers when the bullets and bombs increase in frequency, again, for not answering positively to the Albanian-Kosovo question. Internationals should research Kosovo- Albanian history and note what happened leading to and after the above dates, and remember that history always dictates the future. Kosov is not a unique case, that argument is lost.


As for Vojvodina and Sandzak, well, if/if not an indirect threat to Serbia, the Americans, and Germans helped the Mujahadeen in Bosnia, so I don't rule out the possibility of WEU country think tanks already devising scenarios and initiating a flash or two. It is the EU and western image at stake with regards to being the powers of righteousness. Polite reminder, Iraq is a monumental failure, just like Kosovo. Serbia’s history has proven that they cannot be forced to kneel in front of oppressive actions, they will not kneel now.


Sad, very sad, and in the words of Prince Hassan, not forgetting other global issues - "I'm afraid the making of World War III is actually taking place in front of our eyes." Prince Hassan of Jordan - March 26, 2004

A War of Terrorist style actions lasting five to seven years, depending on the economical strength and losses of nations.

"He said that insisting that Kosovo remain an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918."

Zobel is contradicting himself. How will giving up Kosovo make Serbia's hold over Vojvodina more secure?

In fact I think the logic is exactly the other way round! If Serbia can be made to give up Kosovo, the Hungarians can then argue that she can be made to give up Vojvodina too! The German Ambassador is talking nonsense here!

"According to Zobel, the UN fact-finding mission set to determine the implementation of the standards “could only come to one conclusion – Serbs and Albanians cannot live together.”

then the answer is obviously partition!

So I guess mr. Zobel will soon request half of Europe for Germany. It used to be part Germany as recently as '45.
Both sides seem to be coming up with more and more ridiculous arguments and counter-arguments.
Find a solution that will at least somewhat satisfy both sides, instead of wasting more time and words on the past. This part of Europe needs to move on. In that sense Albanians and Serbs have more in common than they think.

Ambassador Zobel's logic truly has landed upside down.

"...insisting that Kosovo remain an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918."

Can Zobel actually be this stupid? Is this the level at which independence supporters discuss their case?

Zobel: “It was untrue that Kosovo had always belonged to Serbia, since it officially became Serbia’s in 1912...”

OK, let's return it to Ottoman Empire. But seriously - if we really must talk at this level - doesn't Zobel know anything about Serbian states in the Middle Ages?

I personally don't approve Serbia's demand on Kosovo based just on history and historical findings, but to be voluntarily ignorant about them is a sign of a fool.

What does Zobel mean with "it [Kosovo] officially became Serbia’s in 1912"?

Which records only can be held as "official"? Were the Balkans Ottoman Empire's land officially or unofficially?

Who's land Kosovo officially was before 1912?

Serbian scholars write like this: "Contrary to the many instances of the material culture of Serbs in the Middle Ages, Albanians cannot show a single archaeological trace of their presence in Kosovo.

Now, I don't buy that text as the final truth. Its content must be studied, and proven false if so be the case. Has Zobel done this?

Zobel: “This is not a threat, but a mere analysis.”

Zobel will be called home pretty soon to study the word analysis.

Zobel: "[the UN fact-finding mission] could only come to one conclusion – Serbs and Albanians cannot live together.”

So, let's anyway build a new state where they live together.

In other words he says Serbs and Albanians cannot live together in Serbia, but they must live together in indendent Kosovo.

He actually suggest that Kosovo must be partioned. As Afrim Hoxha also considers this being a real fact in his comment.

Germany, of all countries, should not meddle into Balkan affairs. Mr. Zobel has probably 'forgotten' that in the early 1990s German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher pushed for Croatia's independence, and this contributed (at least to some degree) to the 1991-1995 Balkan wars (even experts from the US and UK agree on this). In my opinion, Serbia deserves an German ambassador with more knowledge of Balkan history than Mr. Zobel...

how quick some Albanians are, if it is about cheering for some figure swallowing their propaganda...interesting.

Mr.Zobel abilities in regard to the analysis of the KiM-matter and history are astonishing!
if he meant it that way, he would have made a complete fool of himself.
of course there is no question about when KiM was part of Serbia. every sound person can take a look into history-books...
but, as Mr.Zobel is being quoted, he didn´t mean to link up Kosovo i Metohija with other parts of Serbia. otherwise he would be a persona non grata. a german ambassador should take better care about his words...

the bottomline is: just another media-hoax...

you´ve cheered too early, afrim. :)

These comments seem very irresponsible. Is he seeking to widen the break up of the balkans even further?

On one hand politicians say that taking Kosova will not set a precedent and then this man argues that Vojvodina somehow alters the case.

He also insults the political leadership of Serbia - not understanding the internal requirements they have to face.

He does not sound like a top-class diplomate. Certainly there are no lessons to be learned from his arguments as expressed here.

Sounds like Mr. Zobel is on the track of Germany's glorious past, which carved out Serbia during World War II precisely the way Mr. Zobel now proposes. "Nihil Novo Sub Sole". Nice to see some things haven't changed a bit in regards to German attitude towards the Serbs, and we should be grateful to Mr. Zobel for this outburst of sudden sincerity.

We likewise shall treat the Germans with the same traditional distrust and despise as before, because evidently there is a firm basis for it.

The representative of a nation that is responsible for the death of 1.2 million Serbs in WW I and as many in WW II, now comes to moralize and threat again!

Serbia occupied Kosova during Balkan wars in 1912-1913. Very true. One of the posters claims that Serbia had every right because at that time majority of population was Serbian. Very untrue. As far as the size of Serbia during Otoman empire is very easy; Belgrade with its surroundings. How naïve is to say that Hans DITRICH-Gensher is responsible for the war 1991-1995 because it supported Croatian Independence, we all know who started the wars in former Yug. It was Milosheviq with support of every serb in former Yug. the German Ambasador hit it right on the mark, and the truth is very painfull for some.

Well, Mr Ambassador, you have just made the perfect case for partition!

In fact, rather than call for you to be replaced, I hope that the Serbian Government will quote you on every piece of literature that calls for northern Kosovo to be allowed to remain a part of Serbia. Nothing would be more amusing to see you as the poster child for the policy that everyone now knows makes the most sense.

Still, the other threats are absolutely inexcusable. I think it might be time for Dodik to go against Spiric's recent comments about Bosnia's territorial integrity. If Serbia's unity is at risk, then so is that of Bosnia and the other states in the region.

Zobel is a truly appalling diplomat!

Zobel needs to be recalled by the German Govt. as it is clear that he is antagonising not just Serbia with veiled threats that Hungarians could take Vojvodina but it is exactly the same issue that enrages the Slovaks over it's southern region where the Hungarian's have in the past questioned their territorial integrity! I wonder if he has not infuriated the Hungarians too while he was at it let alone the Hungarian minorites who live harmoniously throughout the whole region of central and south Eastern Europe!!!

How does someone with such inept "diplomatic" skills become an Ambassador???? Not only does he insult Serbian territorial integrity but also is likely to have made Slovakia definetly vote against such a plan in the UN!!! What next will he tell the Romanians that they have little title to Transylvania??? Germany needs to question it's diplomats integrity as it is clear such statements offered by it's ambassador cast doubt on his diplomacy!

Talking about Gaff's, it's just as big a gaff as the OSCE's Secretary General Marc Perrin de Brichambaut
who suggests if Kosovo announces its independence, Russia can recognize Abkhazia and Transdnestr independence
http://www.regnum.ru/english/811325.html
"According to him, the UN Security Council started a long stage of discussions on the Kosovo issue. “The consultations can continue for the whole April and May, right up to the G8 summit in Germany, in which Russian President Vladimir Putin is planned to take part and where presidents and prime ministers will not manage to avoid this subject. Here the question of reciprocal action that the Russians can take is to appear,” "

Looks like the talks will go on & on & on seeing as Russia has the upper hand. I said it before Russia's best interest is being served untill of course it is able to apply the precedent to all matters it sees in the same light. If this does not materialise then Russia can always veto - Sui generis disaapears completly, 1244 stands and then the Status quo continues till new talks find a real and lasting solution. There is no war or illegal declaration because the US don't want to be shown up again for it's disregard of the UN. In this scenario they would be disregarding a UN resolution that they agreed to!!!!

The ethnic-Albanians commenting on this really don't see the desperation of such ill-thought comments by Zobel which show up even more the weak foundations of such folly!! Wakeup can't you see that the more people like Zobel speak the more they put their foot in their mouth and even less likely to deliver on the promise that is undeliverable!!!

In so many ways, Thanks Zobel for being so inept!!!

Jim,

Serbian territorial integrity was brought into question in 1999 when you de facto lost the territory of Kosovo to Nato and the Kosovo Albanians.

Certainly, your claims to Kosovo have a general legal basis, no one is trying to prove the contrary.

However, in order for a claim to be valid and implementable it needs not only take into account a general statement in 1244, but it is essential to take into account the concrete facts on the ground, and the fact is "you lost kosovo in 1999" you do not have any legal or administrative powers over Kosovo, you can not apply your legislation here and you can not impose your administration here, you have no security presence.

In fact i havent seen a Serb in Prishtina for over a year now.

The German ambassador is only pointing out the obvious. Why exactly should the Kosovo Albanians accept to be under the jurisdiction of a country that administratively and factualy is as alien to them as Kirgistan.

Trying to impose Serbian borders to Kosovo at this point in the Kosovo Albanians eyes would be the same as saying "from this point on Kosovo shall be an integral part of Kirgistan" because someone somewere wrote a piece of paper that esures Kirgistans territorial integrity and its right to Kosovo.

Hitler Pushed SS Albanians forces in Kosovo to gain INDEPENDANCE in 1942.

In 1990 Germany helped and pushed her Allies from 1942. Now 2007? What has changed? Same threats, same tactics to destabilise Serbia used by the powerful Germany.

Mr Ambassador

You sound like you have take a crash crouse on Serbian Politics and think you know everything about it.

How is it possible that Kosovo was occupied in 1912, when all the church's there date ~1000 years?

"Serbs and Albanians could never reach an agreement."
Why dont you force alittle pressure on the Albanians, instead of forcing everyone on Serbia. For EX: "Hay you can run your lies, economies, police, but u must stay within Serbia's borders"

“more than autonomy, less than independence,” adding that, in his opinion, Serbia “deserved better political elite.”
-Who would you rather like, the Radicals. You probably wouldn't mind that, would you?

"However, Serbia cannot regain control over the province, as its Albanian majority no longer wishes to live in Serbia. That’s why Kosovo is a unique case,” Zobel said.

UNIQUE: This sounds like you just got out of elementry school.
Defination of Unique: "Only one"
Than what about George and Southern Ossetia. Ossetians say out, George says no.
-So how can be "UNIQUE"

So please learn about what is really going on than come back.

I can still not understand what business Germany has in interfering in Serbia's affairs. I can sense that there is lobbying going on in the background because for the Germans to mention '1912', that is telling because only Kosovo's Albanians have mentioned this date consistently, not Serbs, so it looks like the Germans are getting their propaganda from somewhere.

I also cannot understand why Germany is interfering in Serbia when, at the same time, it it staying at 'arms length' over the UN peacekeeping between south Lebanon and north Israel. Obviously, the Germans are troubled by what they did to Jewish people in the Second World War, but not at all by what they did to the Serbian people in the same period. Serbs also ended up in Dachau, but you never would have known it from Germany's political and military actions over the past 18 years. Even the Wehrmacht was involved in the slaughter, not just their SS. What Germany has and wants to do to Serbia it would never contemplate for Israel. Where is Germany's memory about what it has done in the past to Serbia?

nkurtishi@yahoo.com

"In fact i havent seen a Serb in Prishtina for over a year now."

- it is exactly because of such a failure of the UNMIK that you examplify that Russia is insisting that a Team be sent in. Their objective will be to clarify what has happened thus far in implementing 1244 before discussions on a new resolution.

The fact remains that the West intervened to ensure all people could live in safety and security with basic human rights - what you illuminate is that thus far UNMIK has failed when it says all is successful

"Top Channel: Is it true that it has been reported that 96 percent of Serbs do have freedom of movement? They feel free and they have freedom of movement in Kosovo. Has this been reported at the Security Council?

Neeraj: We have over the past I think a year, in every Security Council session on Kosovo, progressively reported improvement in the freedom of movement situation in Kosovo and the details on that are available in our reports. So you can check it out."
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/SHES-726QDE?OpenDocument

Clearly, such a statement is contray to what is the actuality and in which case what else is the false in the folly of creating a "Kosovar" entity that has no historic, economic or ethnic reality for being other then to create a ethnically pure 2nd Albainian state on the territory of Serbia.

Mladen,
I think you mean, Serbia can run her lies and propaganda which nobody wants to hear them anymore, as far as Kosovo, from 1989 till 1998 during the Serb apartheid we managed to run our lives and never gave up gaining independence in a peaceful way till serb army came and did what everybody knows, killing almost 10000 people, deporting a million of them, 3000 of them still missing in a mass graves somewhere in Serbia, but we can still run our lives, economy and we will move on and forgive for all those atrocities that serbian people should feel ashame that they did, but never forget, and we are within our borders. Where is Serbia?- Out of Kosovo since 1999, de facto, out of Kosovo since 2007 de jure.
Serbia never enjoyed holding Kosovo, because it never been hers, just like in a everyday life you never enjoy something that isn't yours,sooner or later it will flip from your hands (it took long for Kosovo but better later then never).
cheers

Princip you like to distort the facts and you think people are ignorant and buy into your false statements. You are claiming that Hungarians live harmoniously in Slovakia and Serbia. NO, NOT AT ALL. They are discriminated, harassed in both countries, more naturelly in Serbia than in Slovakia. It is a very bad short-sited policy of these two countries to treat there biggest minority this way. The past treatement of the Albanians of Kosovo illustrates well where such mistreatment can lead.

Maybe Mr. Ambassador was drunk... sometimes drunk people convey real issues that the one is not allowed or do not wan't to convey in a normal state....

With or without Zobel's comments Kosova is getting independence... common wake up, Kosova is not and was never Serbia's cradle

I believe it was Germany's most accomplished statesmen, Otto Von Bismark, who said "the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single German grenadier"

Vojvodina will become independent anyway for two reasons. Victor Orban and his Neo Nazis in ties guys will probably gain power in Hungary. Meanwhile, the Serb Radical Party will be the big winners or Kosovo's loss. Where will all those 10,000's of Serbs go once Kosovo is independent? If they do not have family to move in with in Serbia, prhaps they will be "settled" in Vojvodina to Serbanize the area more? I believe efforts to name streets in Novi Sad after Serbian "war heros" during the Milosevic wars are the early signs of this. And tensions will heat up. And Mr. Orban will be "concerned." And the Neo Nazi's who riot after his rallies will have something more to do. And the Radicals will have an opportunity to get the tanks rolling to show everyone "no one is going to push us around anymore."

Kosovo will erupt into vioence anyway whether or not the economic globalists who want Kosovo to be independent are "afraid" of another Albanian outburst like 2004. Sorry guys, Kosovo won't be an investment opportunity. There are to many forces that want Kosovo to be a political no man's land, Europe's "frontier" of law and order.

Where do you think the "Wahabbi's" that Bosnia is trying to kick out will go? Kosovo! They will be a bit more discrete this time, since they understand that countries who will be happy to send anyne who says "Go Al-Qaeda!" to Gunatamamo in a heartbeat have troops there. But that's okay with Al-Qeada if they must shave their beards and cut their hair since Al-Qaeda wants to see Kosovo continue to tie down US military resources. If they do not want to live underground in Bosnia, Al-Qaeda's leadership will simply "Go south, young man, go south." And they will stirr things up at the right time.

And the Albanian nationalists will also stir things up. They will say "we are not the EU's version of Puerto Rico!!!...(and secretly want to kill every &*^%$ remaining Serb that did not leave after the ecomonic globalists gave us our 'commonwealth' status)

2004 will happen again, minus a speed of about 20 mph, after "independence" is granted. The current Kosovar PM, a convicted war criminal himself let out by the economic globalist hypocrites who granted Kosovo's "independence", will say "common on guys, stop blowing up Serb churches at night and doing drive bys and proverbially burning crosses on Serb properities...can't we all get along??? (He can say he said this quote if he ever goes to the Hague for his acquittal trial) In reality however, he is probably holding back his burst of laughter.

The Serbs won't be laughing though. Wether they be living in the enclaves or up north, they won't be laughing, but will be begging for help from paramilitaries who will be happy to sneak into northern Kosovo to help them.

The EU nations with peacekeepers there, and the US National Guard, won't be happy either. Come on, an Army that needs to bring a Burger King stand with them in the field is not going to think that these people are that special enough to die for. Both Serbs and Albanians have studied Iraq...just get the cycle of strike and relatialiation going fast enough, reinfect the society with enough hate, and they cycle of violence will overwhlem them. Partition, or ethnic cleansing (depending on the victor) either by force or by the pen, will be achieved. And the Serb Radicals will look the other way...they will say "don't Serb property owners have a right to defend their property? The EU isn't doing it."

The only people who are sensitive about property will be the Albanian mafia. They don't want to EU to close their "black maretplace" that is called Kosovo. And that is when will have the Lexinton Concord event. Because in reality, the extremist will have nothing, and next to little support from the vast bulk of Kosovo's political weary residents. They will need the the mafia's resources and access to gun replenishment to carry out their agenda. And what will be 2004 minus 20 mph will turn into 2004 plus 75 mph (assunimg 2004 was about 90 mph)once the mafias decide it is in their interests to support tha nationalists again.

And Al-Qeada in Kosovo will pick up its activities too. They will never be as strong as the nationalists, even if the "silent majority" of Albanians are sick of crime. Heck, the nationalist and Islamic radical factons of the Albanian Kosovo resurgence may even fight each other!

It will be fine with them to just keep their footprint in Kosovo. Gotta keep the Americans scared. They also need a base from which to stir things up in Bosnia...it's not fair, after all, the Serbs (Radical Party) have a yard to do the same with said country...lets see, the first place to stir things up, hmmm, why not Serbrenica?

Shame shame, the financial globalist's plan just backfired...

I hope I end up standing as a stupid fool, and NONE of this happens.

hahaha this really got you goin my dear serbian counterparts. You'd better get used to it as this is what is to come in the next few weeks/months. Therefore, i suggest that taking more realistic approach when the day comes it wan't hurt as much. Gathering from all your comments only reaferms again the Serbian propaganda and how brainwashed they have been from their own goverment. Like my fellow kosovars have been suggesting to you all that the official day will come and is knoking on the door now.

The Germans are again provoking conflicts in the region as they had when they supported Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia. Not only are the statements contradictory they are completely unwarranted. Serbs and Albanians cannot live together? Of course not since the west started supporting separatist movements in Serbia. The ambassador is not contradicting himself, he is simply stating that everyone expects the Serbs to be completely cleansed from Kosovo once Albanians get independence, and that is how "peace" will be achieved. The Germans had always waited for this day, when Serbia would fall apart. Knowing Germanys history I cannot believe that they are commenting on the Serbs and their politics. Instead of supporting a countrys national integrity the Germans are basically promoting separatists. Incredible, once again these statements would not be acceptable for any nation but since it is Serbia everything goes. Can I say double-standard?

The Germans might be trying to back track upon what their Amabassador said being out of context but it seems like it is the Germans who are out of context.

For an example of another series of "out of context" gaffs by Germans and further insight into the view of German politicians present and past read the article by former foreign minister and vice chancellor from 1998 to 2005 - Joscka Fisher's article in the Guardian trying to promote the cause of independence and failling appalingly,
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/joschka_fischer/2007/04/breaking_with_the_past.html

It would seem that Germany is only too keen to suggest to Serbs that they should "break with the past" but it seems the Germans would hope no one recalls their involment in the recent past let alone during the second world war!! The Germans were just as complicit in agitating, training and inspiring the ethnic-Albanian KLA terrorists as was the US's not so secret CIA. Read the article, "German Intelligence and the CIA supported Al Qaeda sponsored Terrorists in Yugoslavia"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEH502A.html
Maybe the Germans hope that this is resolved before the real truth is fully known, but then the Ambassador seems to have let his tongue slip more then he now wishes!!!

Whichever person tells the truth and the reality which the serbs do not like, has to be removed from whatever position he or she has.
Serbs asked for Ahtisaari to be removed, now are asking for Mr. ZObel to be removed, and even in the past have asked for a lot of political leaders to be removed just because those leaders said the truth which the serbs didnt like because the serbs have some real problems with the truth and reality due to the fact that the serbs live in the World of myths.
Basically, whoever does not buy the serb propaganda and myths, has to be removed because nobody should stand against the serb propaganda. This is how the rule is according to serb dreamers.
********
Again, thanks to Mr. Zobel for pointing up some really great facts such as the one that Kosova was occupied by Serbia in 1912.
There are some orthodox churches in Kosova, but there are also some Cacholic churches in Kosova too which date even older than the orthodox ones, but the decision of Kosova should not be made based on the fact that there are some orthodox or catholic churches but it should be based on the reality in the ground which clearly shows that KOSOVA will be an independent country, no matter if the serb dreamers like it or not.

Greetings to all from Kosova/o.
This is my second week in here.It is an interesting situation people are living in.Even though still are not 100% certain, citizens of Kosova/o are preparing for the first 120 days after the status.
Hopefully it will be a good one for all Kosovan People.
I would like to invite all of you to come and visit Kosova/o,it's not and ideal place to live in at the moment,but spirit and williness is here.People are tired of this situation and they deserve better.
Give Peace a chance.

I know nobody wants to hear this, even many pro EU Serbs, but hear it goes. Gemany is rebuilding it's empire under the guise of the European Union. To do this it must have the Serbs under control. three ways to do this. First, divide the Serbs into many small states. Two, strenghten the Serbs local enemys (Albanians, Muslium Bosnians & Croatians). Three, if one and two don't work just eliminate the Serbs altogether. Germany has tried this in the past and I hope it's plain to see now by Mr. Zobel's words if not Germany's actions since reunification. This is a wake up call! Only unity will save the Serbs!!!!

M and other Kosovo Albanians / pro Albanians,

I dont have a problem with the inevitable, but, comments from Mr.Zobel are so stupid and naive I cant believe someone in that position can be so out of touch with the bigger picture.

He really is advocating borders drawn on ethnic lines and. Surely, from a modern Kosovo Albanian point of view, you want and welcome ethnic minorities living amongst you?

Or do you want your own land based upon 100% of your own ethnic group?

If you want the latter, then this is nothing short of fascism.

I liked the comments made by the ambassador of Germany to Serbia. He is telling the truth to the Serbs. Enough is enough, now they must wake up and realize what they have done against their neighbours. Mr. Ambassador the Serbs does not like the comments because your are saying the truth and it hurts for many of them.

Another German, former foreign minister Joscha Ficsher yesterday:

"In the 1990s, following its atrocities in Bosnia, Slobodan Milosevic's Serb regime abolished Kosovo's long-standing autonomy, suppressing the rights of the province's overwhelming Albanian majority. Instead of simply watching in horror, as it did at the start of the Bosnian war, NATO decided to intervene before Milosevic's forces could again devastate one of the constituent ethnic groups of the former Yugoslavia. Security of the European Union and Europe's moral responsibility after the crimes of World War II were at stake."

"Resolving Kosovo's status is also a necessity for the province's Serb minority, which continues to live in uncertainty, not knowing whether to look to Belgrade or Pristina for protection of its rights. It would free both Serbia and the EU to move forward on Serbia's domestic reforms and international integration."

"Reintegrating Kosovo into Serbia is not tenable. Since the end of the conflict in June 1999, Serbia has not exercised any governing authority over Kosovo. Under UN administration, legitimate Kosovar institutions for managing domestic affairs have been created. With these institutions in place, Kosovo's people expect greater self-government.

Sadly, Belgrade's vision of Kosovo returning to Serbian rule - albeit with autonomy - ignores these realities. Indeed, Serbia has no viable strategy for integrating Kosovo's 2 million people into Serbian political institutions and public life. "

I would kindly ask people who are supporting this kind of statement from German ambassador to tell us, honestly, do Serbs can have their own state at all, what be its boundaries, and is there at all any point at which this policy towards Serbia should stop? Dont get me wrong, this is not rethorical question, I sincerely want to hear your opinion, since it looks like we could face destiny of Kurds or Palestinians, according to some of you and Mr. Zobbel, of course.

RE: German Ambassador Zobel

Archduke Franz Ferdinand was making the same comments to anniliate Serbia and annex Bosnia to the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1905-1912 and was assasinated by Gavrilo Princip led by Tankosic and Dragutin Dimitrijevic.

Yes, Hans Deitrich Genscher within the Cole government meddled with Yugoslav sovereignty in 1989 and along with the Vatican were first to recognize Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina igniting a civil war in Yugoslavia.

Yes, Hitler invaded and divided Yugoslavia in 1941 but were defeated by the Allies in 1945.

In 2007, Germany is the Economic powerhouse of the EU. Charlemagne was the leader of the Holy Roman Empire during the middle ages, Germany is back in the 21st century with vengeance.

If Germany has any sense of justice and reality, the citizens of Germany should demand that Zobel be recalled and dismissed.

"In remarks during a panel discussion in Belgrade on Tuesday, Ambassador Andreas Zobel warned that if Serbia continues to oppose the U.N. plan for the southern Serbian province, it risks seeing questions raised about other parts of its territory."

Last I heard 1244 was the prevailing UN document regarding Serbia's sovereignty over a peaceful Kosovo.

"Not all diplomats are peace negotiators, but all peace negotiators are diplomats."

The German Ambassador said no thing new regarding Serbia's claim over Kosovo, ie. that Kosovo came under Serbia only in 1912. The same was said clearly by President Tadic several months ago. Using distorted and untrue historic arguments does not help Serbia. If the Turks used the Ottoman arguments the Balkans would have been called Turkey a long time ago. It is therefore best that the historic myth about Kosovo to Serbia be done away with once and for all. Just it is high time to let go of Kosovo and that the Serb people look to the future.

The arrogance of the ambassador is quite astonishing. If he wants to link Kosovo to the status of Vojvodina and the Sandžak, will he also accept the linkage of Kosovo's status to that of the RS in BiH? Oh no, that's not allowed!

Mr. Zobel should resign from his post.

To all the moderate Albanians who read and don't write on the blogs, you really have a choice:

1)Remove the current PISG leadership from the clutches of Albanian extremists and corrupt and BlindUS Senators and Congressman.

2) Relieve yourselves of the false image that allignment with Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia with refresh the your dying fruits.

or

3) Go ahead like in the past and committ to varying degrees of violence, because your dream was not realised.

You ewere given an unrealistic and false presentation of the future by Holbrooke and paddy Ashdown via Tony Blair. Don't isolate yourselves. Whether the EU like it or not Serbia will once again be a prominent political, security and economic power in eastern europe.

Choose your path wisely and without false influence.

The German Ambassador said no thing new regarding Serbia's claim over Kosovo, ie. that Kosovo came under Serbia only in 1912. (Gjini, 12 April 2007, 18:20)

The Orthodox Kosovo Churches built under the Nemenja dynasty bear proof of the first settlement of Serbs that occured in Kosovo. The first Serbian settelment occured in Kosovo and Old Montenegro.

Kosovo was annexed from Ottoman Rule, not Albanian rule in 1912.

Kosovo never was, is and ever will be Albanian. The Serbian Constitution guarantees it, every Serb knows it and no amount of Albanian propoganda and distortion of the truth will ever change it.

So Zobel is now trying to apologise & the German Govt. is distancing itself from it's Ambassador - well, well looks like Serbia needs to assert itself diplomatically more often.

This will stop the lies that are peddled as fact that I hear so often by proAlbanian commentators as exemplified in many of the above comments and even in undiplomatic circles of the West!!!

I think the term put his foot in his mouth is very apt indeed. Many thanks for the own goal Mr Zobel and collect your p45 on the way out!

I am sure that Kosovo Independens won´t cause any other problem for Serbia such as Vojvodina or Sandjak...

One thing though; I now for sure that once serbs politician and people in general(serbs) "realise" that the fact kosovo has nothing to do with serbia, they will do themselvs a big favor...WAKEING UP from this Utopia and starting to educate their children to respect other people

Guys what the world is trying to tell you (Serbians) stop looking at the History books written by Serbian scholars as they are fulling you!!!!

What I am trying to explain here is that actually what the German ambassador is telling you is exactly the same thing other countries are arguing. However, you have to take into consideration cultural differences (In my opinion something Serbians don't understand at all) and understand that this a way Germans express themselves (direct way). However, British French etc are arguing exactly the same thing, and the only difference is the way off communicating with the public.

I already mentioned in this forum (though not everything is published) if we were to divide any country we should start by Serbia for obvious reasons (ethnic composition of the population).

And by the way I don't mean to insult anyone by any means by this comments but simply encourage to think independently (unbiased).

This article is a apology to Serbia for this mans remarks!!!

Which were ridicules & false, Only desperate Albanians could believe and wish for such statements to be true...

“Zobel said that insisting on Kosovo remaining an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918.

Zobel was also quoted as saying ‘it was untrue that Kosovo had always belonged to Serbia, since it officially became Serbia’s in 1912, along with Vojvodina, which joined in 1918.’

‘This is not a threat, but a mere analysis,’ he said adding that Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica’s insistence that Kosovo is Serbia’s land ‘led to stagnation and a situation Serbia couldn’t win.’

He stated his belief that Serbs and Albanians could never reach an agreement, explaining that the push for the continuation of the talks was only meant to postpone the final status settlement. ”

(…)

“‘However, Serbia cannot regain control over the province, as its Albanian majority no longer wishes to live in Serbia. That’s why Kosovo is a unique case’, Zobel said.”

DAMN IT, ZOBEL IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

Kosovo must be independent. Sometimes I think that the majority of Serbians that post nationalistic comments here belongs to “Milosevic Generation” who learned all this “Serbs-Are-Holy-Innocent-People-Threatened-By-All-Others” trhough distorted propagandistic schoobooks in the 90’s…

These comments from Zobel are quite bizare and untrue. An elementary search through history would show that all the regions he commented on have been a part of the Serbian state throughout.

With the partition of Serbia, Croatia, Romania and the present day Bosnia (Federation of Bosnia & Hercegovina and the Republika Srpska)between the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires, Kosovo fell under the Turks while northern Serbia (the Vojvodina region)was occupied by Austria-Hungary (as was Slavonia, Isria, Dalmatia in Croatia and Translyvania in Romania). The Hungarian and German minorities in these areas are due to that occupation.

Kosovo's demographics stem from Ottoman rule as well as other factors such as high birthrates among Albanians and socio-ecomonic factors which have forced many Serbs to migrate out particularly over the past 100 years. These patterns can be seen through census data during this period.

Vojvodina means 'Duchy' in Serbian and during the Austro-Hungarian occupation it was known as the crownland of "Voivodship of Serbia and Tamis Banat".

With the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire Vojvodina voted to reunify with Serbia as did Istria, Dalmatia with Croatia etc. The regions' population has always been, as it is currently, dominately Serbian. Recent census figures show that out of the regions' 2,031,992 residents, 1,321,807 are ethnic Serbs, while Hungarians constitute 290,207. I understand that some people, mostly Gheg's and Tosk's will dispute this, saying that this is due to re-settlements etc but many areas in the former Yugoslavia have had migrations and re-settlments due to the wars and actions of all sides to the conflicts.

Reading some comments on various blogs on this website it seems that the Gheg's and Tosk's are quick to point this out against others, particularly Serbs,but ignore this when referring to the Kosovo Albanian population. It just does not wash.

I think that the only changes to Balkan borders in the future will be the independence of the Republika Srpska and the Hercegovina Croat cantons and the establishment of a Bosniak State out of the central parts of the FBiH.

In the interests of long term peace and with pressure from the international community parts of Kosovo, western Macedonia and southern Montenegro will be unforunately given to Albania. One can only hope that the Macedonians from Mala Prespa and the Greeks from northern Epirus will follow the examples of the Albanian minority in neighbouring countries and call for independence.

Zobel's comments therefore do not hold much truth but as a German diplomat he should know better.

It may well be true that Serbia deserves better political elite, but it is absolutely certain that it deserves better ambassadors.

Olli. I fully agree whit you.

Whos was kosovo "officialy" before 1912? Ottomans? And before?

Germany's ambassador to Serbia Andreas Zobel has clearly intentionally put his foot into his mouth and I wonder if the German Govt. can remove it. Time will tell.
For ambassador Zobel to even mention Vojvodina and Sandjak at this time is to tell Serbia, its Diaspora and the World that this is what is in the minds of the German elite.
Amin.

Steven from Sydney,

Are you not affraided that the sky will fell on you? How can you twist, falsify history in such an shamefull way? Vojvodina is part of Serbia only since 1918. It was never serbian before but hungarian for 1000 years. Bacska (the richest part of Vojvodina)was 80-90% hungarian before you got it as a present after WWI.

I am surprised that some Serbians are so hurt by words of HE German Ambassador. If Serbians are claiming that province Kosovo is historically Serbian. In the same logic, Hungarians can claim province Vajdasag/Vojvodina back, since it was until 1918 Hungarian, and was for 900 years a part of Hungary.

Djuro UK,

To a degree you are right with regard to German ambassador for being as blunt as he ha been ( perhaps he should have applied the sensitivity issue towards the Serbian people here since he is to serve in Serbia) But let me ask you something? Would you appreciate if someone told you the way the matter is and prepare you in time for what is to come, or someone telling you twisted stories and then leave you with the shock of the news????!!!!
As far as i am concerned, i can live with the devil so long as he didn't interfere with my live. What makes it interesting living in London for you?(tolerance, independence, proud of your identity) I want the same thing to be applied in both Kosovo and Serbia. Is that realistic (think views of Milosevic then and Kostunica now), same sh**** different person (pardon my French).

I hope i made my values clear to you my dear Serbian UK friend ( think outside the box)

regards

Firstly to Joe who responded to my previous entry, I am not Serbian. Secondily I have not falsified any history, the information I presented is readily available.

You said that Hungary ruled Vojvodina for a thousand years before 1918, well Serbian Slav tribes settled into Vojvodina in the 6th century A.D. The Magyar tribes moved into the Carpathian Basin region around modern day Hungary, Slovakia and northern Romania where they encountered mainly Slavic populations living there.

Parts of Vojvodina were annexed by the Hungarian Kingdom from the 13th century and Austria annexed more after the Ottoman invasions of South-eastern Europe. During this period of Hungarian and later Austro-Hungarian occupation local Serbian nobles ruled Vojvodina as Vassals of these empires, eg, Jovan Nenad ruled Backa beginning in 1526.

So, Hungary did not rule Vojvodina for a thousand years. And the word Backa is a slavic word which means "land which belongs to the city of Bac". Bac is a city in Serbia.

The Hungarian Kingdom ruled Croatia and Slavonia from 1102 to 1918, so does that mean that Hungary gave the Croats their nation as a gift after World War One?

Or was Slovakia, Transylvania and southern Ukraine also given as a gift after the war? Did Austria give the Czech lands of Bohemia and Morovia as a gift to the Czechs or was that Austrian land cruelly taken away from Austria?

Various European Empires throughout history ruled and annexed different lands over and over again, it does not mean that all the land they conquered is theirs.

To Joe,

The only thing shameful is your version of history. I am sure that the vast majority of Hungarians do not have such a narrow vision of history on the region and Hungarian, Austro-Hungarian involvement in it.

We are so equal in diverse way…

Its fact, the reality heart …Its about time to declare a peace of all kind a specially from coming from government sides and accept e new reality of Kosovo… in order to develop our live and nations lets try to live independently maybe we will love each other more in new reality called EU countries…any how Europe will gather us again!!!

”When you lose, don't lose the lesson”

Girl from Kosovo

thanks to MR. Zobel for bringing up some real facts about the situation on the ground.
Serbia is only wasting its time with leaders like Kostunica and myths about kosova.
Kosova was in fact occupied by Serbia in 1912 and this is known very well, except that against this, people like Kostunica and Princip here have some proof based on myths.
There is no other way but an INDEPENDENT KOSOVA.

I've never heard such contradictory and stupid statements ever. His argument is just inconsistent. The German government should be wrapping his knuckles over such a naive statement.

So Serbs and Albanians cant live together? So whats Ahtisaari trying to do then with the Serb population in Kosovo?

Are we not actually supposed to be trying to live together. If Mr.Zoble says face it we cant live together, then should we go to war instead?

His views set a precedent for basing international borders on ethnic lines!!!

Crikey, that stinks of fascism!

And, when Kosovo is recognised (no doubt with Germany at the front of the queue), lets signal everyone else to secede, Moldavia, Georgia to name but a few.

naive, simply naive and no help to anyone

"Andreas Zobel said Wednesday than if Kosovo falls short of independence, “problems in Vojvodina and Sandžak might flare up.”"

And if independence is [illegally] granted, then problems will flare up in the south of Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, to name but a few. Plus they are more likely to flare up in places like Vojvodina if Kosovo DOES get independence.

This entire speel from Zobel sound exactly like a veiled threat to me.

It is absolutely outrageous that a serving ambassador should speak in this manner. This goes far beyond anything said by the British or US ambassadors. Apart from the offensive nature of his comments about Serbia's leaders, including Tadic, his implied threat about Sandzak and Vojvodina, despite claims to the contrary, represents an unprecedented questioning of Serbian territorial integrity.

By all accounts, Belgrade should insist on his departure. However, I have a feeling that this is exactly what he is hoping to see happen. Still, I would do it and have Tadic make it clear to the other EU member states that his comments represented a fundamental threat to Serbia's political stability as it quite clearly undermined the attempts to from a new administration and played into the hands of Serbian nationalists who believed that Germany was intent on breaking up the country.

Mr Zorbel's comments are ridiculous. The fact is that Serbian territorial integrity should be just as firmly held up by international law as German, Finnish, Spanish or Russian territorial integrity. All countries have minorities. If we were to start granting independence to each of them then the European state system as it has been created in 20th century would fall apart, and we would be faced by countless wars and bloodshed.

The facts are that Serbia won Kosovo during the Balkan Wars in 1912-1913. The majority of the population was then Serb, and she had every right to claim the region. There is no doubt that as result of Tito's, Milosevic's and NATO's misguided policies a 'special situation' now exists in Kosovo. The majority are Albanian and I dont see how Serbia could re-intergrate the Albanians.

However, while the Albanians do have a case- in that perhaps they should be allowed to go their own way, then so do the Serbs. Serbia is the legal owner of Kosovo, and there is also a Kosovo-Serb minority which does not want independence. I think a mutually agreed division of the Serbian province would be the fairest and best way forward for both parties. This would allow the Kosovo Abanians to go their own way, while respecting (to an extent) the wishes and rights of the Kosovo Serbs(whether they live in Kosovo at present or are refugees in Serbia) and The Serbian Republic.

Thats true MR Ambassador, Serbian Government should focus on not loosing Vojvodina and Sanxhak in a years to come, not wasting time with Kosovo. Kosovo was occupied by serbs in 1912, Vojvodina in 1918, Kosovo in 1974 become a constitutional part of ex Yugoslavia with its own borders, parliament,etc., at the time had a President (MR Sinan Hasani), so and Vojvodina (Im not sure was the same year as Kosovo or before). Kosovo and Vojvodina in 1989 were taken those rights by Milosevic regime, without even asking for referendum or parlament of Kosovo and Vojvodina that time. Finally Kosovars gained independent in 1999 after Nato entered Kosovo, after years of apartheid from Serbia, next turn will be Vojvodina's to do that, and I think they are waiting for the right time and moment to do just that, get Independent.
Cheers Mr Ambassador

I am glad that the German ambassador as well as the American and British one are beggining to understand the reality behind the Kosovo issue.

And i feel sorry for the Serbian leadership who are trying to use the same tricks that they used during the Berlin and London Conferences in 1880 and 1913.

Thank You Mr. Zobel

As a citizen of Kosova, I, in the name of Kosova, honor you with the award: Honored Citizen of Kosova.
It seems that politicians are getting itno the tracks finally.
Goodbye Serbia
See You in EU

This artical fuels the point of view of the Muslims living in Kosovo. Afrim Hoxha. I ask you. What is the purpose of this article. Is it to inform. Or simply provoke? and furthermore, what will independance of Kosovo really achive for the current people living in the province?

It is a pity that Serbia is unable to exercise what the Russians did in Chechnya and capitulate the current criminal Provisional Government. Over 25% of Albanians do not want to see an Independent Kosovo, it is being forced upon them, so that American, Britain and EU can say mission accomplished. Why are western governments immature and unwilling to accepting responsibility of wrongdoing; why not leave the issue similarly to the Ottomans (1878); Germany/Italy (1943); Tito (1974) and for the fourth and final time give broad autonomy and sever the criminal heads. Three times in the recent past Albanians have tried to realise Independence and failed. So, will western members push for full independence, rather than succumb to a barrage of questions from blinded policy makers when the bullets and bombs increase in frequency, again, for not answering positively to the Albanian-Kosovo question. Internationals should research Kosovo- Albanian history and note what happened leading to and after the above dates, and remember that history always dictates the future. Kosov is not a unique case, that argument is lost.


As for Vojvodina and Sandzak, well, if/if not an indirect threat to Serbia, the Americans, and Germans helped the Mujahadeen in Bosnia, so I don't rule out the possibility of WEU country think tanks already devising scenarios and initiating a flash or two. It is the EU and western image at stake with regards to being the powers of righteousness. Polite reminder, Iraq is a monumental failure, just like Kosovo. Serbia’s history has proven that they cannot be forced to kneel in front of oppressive actions, they will not kneel now.


Sad, very sad, and in the words of Prince Hassan, not forgetting other global issues - "I'm afraid the making of World War III is actually taking place in front of our eyes." Prince Hassan of Jordan - March 26, 2004

A War of Terrorist style actions lasting five to seven years, depending on the economical strength and losses of nations.

"He said that insisting that Kosovo remain an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918."

Zobel is contradicting himself. How will giving up Kosovo make Serbia's hold over Vojvodina more secure?

In fact I think the logic is exactly the other way round! If Serbia can be made to give up Kosovo, the Hungarians can then argue that she can be made to give up Vojvodina too! The German Ambassador is talking nonsense here!

"According to Zobel, the UN fact-finding mission set to determine the implementation of the standards “could only come to one conclusion – Serbs and Albanians cannot live together.”

then the answer is obviously partition!

So I guess mr. Zobel will soon request half of Europe for Germany. It used to be part Germany as recently as '45.
Both sides seem to be coming up with more and more ridiculous arguments and counter-arguments.
Find a solution that will at least somewhat satisfy both sides, instead of wasting more time and words on the past. This part of Europe needs to move on. In that sense Albanians and Serbs have more in common than they think.

Ambassador Zobel's logic truly has landed upside down.

"...insisting that Kosovo remain an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918."

Can Zobel actually be this stupid? Is this the level at which independence supporters discuss their case?

Zobel: “It was untrue that Kosovo had always belonged to Serbia, since it officially became Serbia’s in 1912...”

OK, let's return it to Ottoman Empire. But seriously - if we really must talk at this level - doesn't Zobel know anything about Serbian states in the Middle Ages?

I personally don't approve Serbia's demand on Kosovo based just on history and historical findings, but to be voluntarily ignorant about them is a sign of a fool.

What does Zobel mean with "it [Kosovo] officially became Serbia’s in 1912"?

Which records only can be held as "official"? Were the Balkans Ottoman Empire's land officially or unofficially?

Who's land Kosovo officially was before 1912?

Serbian scholars write like this: "Contrary to the many instances of the material culture of Serbs in the Middle Ages, Albanians cannot show a single archaeological trace of their presence in Kosovo.

Now, I don't buy that text as the final truth. Its content must be studied, and proven false if so be the case. Has Zobel done this?

Zobel: “This is not a threat, but a mere analysis.”

Zobel will be called home pretty soon to study the word analysis.

Zobel: "[the UN fact-finding mission] could only come to one conclusion – Serbs and Albanians cannot live together.”

So, let's anyway build a new state where they live together.

In other words he says Serbs and Albanians cannot live together in Serbia, but they must live together in indendent Kosovo.

He actually suggest that Kosovo must be partioned. As Afrim Hoxha also considers this being a real fact in his comment.

Germany, of all countries, should not meddle into Balkan affairs. Mr. Zobel has probably 'forgotten' that in the early 1990s German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher pushed for Croatia's independence, and this contributed (at least to some degree) to the 1991-1995 Balkan wars (even experts from the US and UK agree on this). In my opinion, Serbia deserves an German ambassador with more knowledge of Balkan history than Mr. Zobel...

how quick some Albanians are, if it is about cheering for some figure swallowing their propaganda...interesting.

Mr.Zobel abilities in regard to the analysis of the KiM-matter and history are astonishing!
if he meant it that way, he would have made a complete fool of himself.
of course there is no question about when KiM was part of Serbia. every sound person can take a look into history-books...
but, as Mr.Zobel is being quoted, he didn´t mean to link up Kosovo i Metohija with other parts of Serbia. otherwise he would be a persona non grata. a german ambassador should take better care about his words...

the bottomline is: just another media-hoax...

you´ve cheered too early, afrim. :)

These comments seem very irresponsible. Is he seeking to widen the break up of the balkans even further?

On one hand politicians say that taking Kosova will not set a precedent and then this man argues that Vojvodina somehow alters the case.

He also insults the political leadership of Serbia - not understanding the internal requirements they have to face.

He does not sound like a top-class diplomate. Certainly there are no lessons to be learned from his arguments as expressed here.

Sounds like Mr. Zobel is on the track of Germany's glorious past, which carved out Serbia during World War II precisely the way Mr. Zobel now proposes. "Nihil Novo Sub Sole". Nice to see some things haven't changed a bit in regards to German attitude towards the Serbs, and we should be grateful to Mr. Zobel for this outburst of sudden sincerity.

We likewise shall treat the Germans with the same traditional distrust and despise as before, because evidently there is a firm basis for it.

The representative of a nation that is responsible for the death of 1.2 million Serbs in WW I and as many in WW II, now comes to moralize and threat again!

Serbia occupied Kosova during Balkan wars in 1912-1913. Very true. One of the posters claims that Serbia had every right because at that time majority of population was Serbian. Very untrue. As far as the size of Serbia during Otoman empire is very easy; Belgrade with its surroundings. How naïve is to say that Hans DITRICH-Gensher is responsible for the war 1991-1995 because it supported Croatian Independence, we all know who started the wars in former Yug. It was Milosheviq with support of every serb in former Yug. the German Ambasador hit it right on the mark, and the truth is very painfull for some.

Well, Mr Ambassador, you have just made the perfect case for partition!

In fact, rather than call for you to be replaced, I hope that the Serbian Government will quote you on every piece of literature that calls for northern Kosovo to be allowed to remain a part of Serbia. Nothing would be more amusing to see you as the poster child for the policy that everyone now knows makes the most sense.

Still, the other threats are absolutely inexcusable. I think it might be time for Dodik to go against Spiric's recent comments about Bosnia's territorial integrity. If Serbia's unity is at risk, then so is that of Bosnia and the other states in the region.

Zobel is a truly appalling diplomat!

Zobel needs to be recalled by the German Govt. as it is clear that he is antagonising not just Serbia with veiled threats that Hungarians could take Vojvodina but it is exactly the same issue that enrages the Slovaks over it's southern region where the Hungarian's have in the past questioned their territorial integrity! I wonder if he has not infuriated the Hungarians too while he was at it let alone the Hungarian minorites who live harmoniously throughout the whole region of central and south Eastern Europe!!!

How does someone with such inept "diplomatic" skills become an Ambassador???? Not only does he insult Serbian territorial integrity but also is likely to have made Slovakia definetly vote against such a plan in the UN!!! What next will he tell the Romanians that they have little title to Transylvania??? Germany needs to question it's diplomats integrity as it is clear such statements offered by it's ambassador cast doubt on his diplomacy!

Talking about Gaff's, it's just as big a gaff as the OSCE's Secretary General Marc Perrin de Brichambaut
who suggests if Kosovo announces its independence, Russia can recognize Abkhazia and Transdnestr independence
http://www.regnum.ru/english/811325.html
"According to him, the UN Security Council started a long stage of discussions on the Kosovo issue. “The consultations can continue for the whole April and May, right up to the G8 summit in Germany, in which Russian President Vladimir Putin is planned to take part and where presidents and prime ministers will not manage to avoid this subject. Here the question of reciprocal action that the Russians can take is to appear,” "

Looks like the talks will go on & on & on seeing as Russia has the upper hand. I said it before Russia's best interest is being served untill of course it is able to apply the precedent to all matters it sees in the same light. If this does not materialise then Russia can always veto - Sui generis disaapears completly, 1244 stands and then the Status quo continues till new talks find a real and lasting solution. There is no war or illegal declaration because the US don't want to be shown up again for it's disregard of the UN. In this scenario they would be disregarding a UN resolution that they agreed to!!!!

The ethnic-Albanians commenting on this really don't see the desperation of such ill-thought comments by Zobel which show up even more the weak foundations of such folly!! Wakeup can't you see that the more people like Zobel speak the more they put their foot in their mouth and even less likely to deliver on the promise that is undeliverable!!!

In so many ways, Thanks Zobel for being so inept!!!

Jim,

Serbian territorial integrity was brought into question in 1999 when you de facto lost the territory of Kosovo to Nato and the Kosovo Albanians.

Certainly, your claims to Kosovo have a general legal basis, no one is trying to prove the contrary.

However, in order for a claim to be valid and implementable it needs not only take into account a general statement in 1244, but it is essential to take into account the concrete facts on the ground, and the fact is "you lost kosovo in 1999" you do not have any legal or administrative powers over Kosovo, you can not apply your legislation here and you can not impose your administration here, you have no security presence.

In fact i havent seen a Serb in Prishtina for over a year now.

The German ambassador is only pointing out the obvious. Why exactly should the Kosovo Albanians accept to be under the jurisdiction of a country that administratively and factualy is as alien to them as Kirgistan.

Trying to impose Serbian borders to Kosovo at this point in the Kosovo Albanians eyes would be the same as saying "from this point on Kosovo shall be an integral part of Kirgistan" because someone somewere wrote a piece of paper that esures Kirgistans territorial integrity and its right to Kosovo.

Hitler Pushed SS Albanians forces in Kosovo to gain INDEPENDANCE in 1942.

In 1990 Germany helped and pushed her Allies from 1942. Now 2007? What has changed? Same threats, same tactics to destabilise Serbia used by the powerful Germany.

Mr Ambassador

You sound like you have take a crash crouse on Serbian Politics and think you know everything about it.

How is it possible that Kosovo was occupied in 1912, when all the church's there date ~1000 years?

"Serbs and Albanians could never reach an agreement."
Why dont you force alittle pressure on the Albanians, instead of forcing everyone on Serbia. For EX: "Hay you can run your lies, economies, police, but u must stay within Serbia's borders"

“more than autonomy, less than independence,” adding that, in his opinion, Serbia “deserved better political elite.”
-Who would you rather like, the Radicals. You probably wouldn't mind that, would you?

"However, Serbia cannot regain control over the province, as its Albanian majority no longer wishes to live in Serbia. That’s why Kosovo is a unique case,” Zobel said.

UNIQUE: This sounds like you just got out of elementry school.
Defination of Unique: "Only one"
Than what about George and Southern Ossetia. Ossetians say out, George says no.
-So how can be "UNIQUE"

So please learn about what is really going on than come back.

I can still not understand what business Germany has in interfering in Serbia's affairs. I can sense that there is lobbying going on in the background because for the Germans to mention '1912', that is telling because only Kosovo's Albanians have mentioned this date consistently, not Serbs, so it looks like the Germans are getting their propaganda from somewhere.

I also cannot understand why Germany is interfering in Serbia when, at the same time, it it staying at 'arms length' over the UN peacekeeping between south Lebanon and north Israel. Obviously, the Germans are troubled by what they did to Jewish people in the Second World War, but not at all by what they did to the Serbian people in the same period. Serbs also ended up in Dachau, but you never would have known it from Germany's political and military actions over the past 18 years. Even the Wehrmacht was involved in the slaughter, not just their SS. What Germany has and wants to do to Serbia it would never contemplate for Israel. Where is Germany's memory about what it has done in the past to Serbia?

nkurtishi@yahoo.com

"In fact i havent seen a Serb in Prishtina for over a year now."

- it is exactly because of such a failure of the UNMIK that you examplify that Russia is insisting that a Team be sent in. Their objective will be to clarify what has happened thus far in implementing 1244 before discussions on a new resolution.

The fact remains that the West intervened to ensure all people could live in safety and security with basic human rights - what you illuminate is that thus far UNMIK has failed when it says all is successful

"Top Channel: Is it true that it has been reported that 96 percent of Serbs do have freedom of movement? They feel free and they have freedom of movement in Kosovo. Has this been reported at the Security Council?

Neeraj: We have over the past I think a year, in every Security Council session on Kosovo, progressively reported improvement in the freedom of movement situation in Kosovo and the details on that are available in our reports. So you can check it out."
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/SHES-726QDE?OpenDocument

Clearly, such a statement is contray to what is the actuality and in which case what else is the false in the folly of creating a "Kosovar" entity that has no historic, economic or ethnic reality for being other then to create a ethnically pure 2nd Albainian state on the territory of Serbia.

Mladen,
I think you mean, Serbia can run her lies and propaganda which nobody wants to hear them anymore, as far as Kosovo, from 1989 till 1998 during the Serb apartheid we managed to run our lives and never gave up gaining independence in a peaceful way till serb army came and did what everybody knows, killing almost 10000 people, deporting a million of them, 3000 of them still missing in a mass graves somewhere in Serbia, but we can still run our lives, economy and we will move on and forgive for all those atrocities that serbian people should feel ashame that they did, but never forget, and we are within our borders. Where is Serbia?- Out of Kosovo since 1999, de facto, out of Kosovo since 2007 de jure.
Serbia never enjoyed holding Kosovo, because it never been hers, just like in a everyday life you never enjoy something that isn't yours,sooner or later it will flip from your hands (it took long for Kosovo but better later then never).
cheers

Princip you like to distort the facts and you think people are ignorant and buy into your false statements. You are claiming that Hungarians live harmoniously in Slovakia and Serbia. NO, NOT AT ALL. They are discriminated, harassed in both countries, more naturelly in Serbia than in Slovakia. It is a very bad short-sited policy of these two countries to treat there biggest minority this way. The past treatement of the Albanians of Kosovo illustrates well where such mistreatment can lead.

Maybe Mr. Ambassador was drunk... sometimes drunk people convey real issues that the one is not allowed or do not wan't to convey in a normal state....

With or without Zobel's comments Kosova is getting independence... common wake up, Kosova is not and was never Serbia's cradle

I believe it was Germany's most accomplished statesmen, Otto Von Bismark, who said "the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single German grenadier"

Vojvodina will become independent anyway for two reasons. Victor Orban and his Neo Nazis in ties guys will probably gain power in Hungary. Meanwhile, the Serb Radical Party will be the big winners or Kosovo's loss. Where will all those 10,000's of Serbs go once Kosovo is independent? If they do not have family to move in with in Serbia, prhaps they will be "settled" in Vojvodina to Serbanize the area more? I believe efforts to name streets in Novi Sad after Serbian "war heros" during the Milosevic wars are the early signs of this. And tensions will heat up. And Mr. Orban will be "concerned." And the Neo Nazi's who riot after his rallies will have something more to do. And the Radicals will have an opportunity to get the tanks rolling to show everyone "no one is going to push us around anymore."

Kosovo will erupt into vioence anyway whether or not the economic globalists who want Kosovo to be independent are "afraid" of another Albanian outburst like 2004. Sorry guys, Kosovo won't be an investment opportunity. There are to many forces that want Kosovo to be a political no man's land, Europe's "frontier" of law and order.

Where do you think the "Wahabbi's" that Bosnia is trying to kick out will go? Kosovo! They will be a bit more discrete this time, since they understand that countries who will be happy to send anyne who says "Go Al-Qaeda!" to Gunatamamo in a heartbeat have troops there. But that's okay with Al-Qeada if they must shave their beards and cut their hair since Al-Qaeda wants to see Kosovo continue to tie down US military resources. If they do not want to live underground in Bosnia, Al-Qaeda's leadership will simply "Go south, young man, go south." And they will stirr things up at the right time.

And the Albanian nationalists will also stir things up. They will say "we are not the EU's version of Puerto Rico!!!...(and secretly want to kill every &*^%$ remaining Serb that did not leave after the ecomonic globalists gave us our 'commonwealth' status)

2004 will happen again, minus a speed of about 20 mph, after "independence" is granted. The current Kosovar PM, a convicted war criminal himself let out by the economic globalist hypocrites who granted Kosovo's "independence", will say "common on guys, stop blowing up Serb churches at night and doing drive bys and proverbially burning crosses on Serb properities...can't we all get along??? (He can say he said this quote if he ever goes to the Hague for his acquittal trial) In reality however, he is probably holding back his burst of laughter.

The Serbs won't be laughing though. Wether they be living in the enclaves or up north, they won't be laughing, but will be begging for help from paramilitaries who will be happy to sneak into northern Kosovo to help them.

The EU nations with peacekeepers there, and the US National Guard, won't be happy either. Come on, an Army that needs to bring a Burger King stand with them in the field is not going to think that these people are that special enough to die for. Both Serbs and Albanians have studied Iraq...just get the cycle of strike and relatialiation going fast enough, reinfect the society with enough hate, and they cycle of violence will overwhlem them. Partition, or ethnic cleansing (depending on the victor) either by force or by the pen, will be achieved. And the Serb Radicals will look the other way...they will say "don't Serb property owners have a right to defend their property? The EU isn't doing it."

The only people who are sensitive about property will be the Albanian mafia. They don't want to EU to close their "black maretplace" that is called Kosovo. And that is when will have the Lexinton Concord event. Because in reality, the extremist will have nothing, and next to little support from the vast bulk of Kosovo's political weary residents. They will need the the mafia's resources and access to gun replenishment to carry out their agenda. And what will be 2004 minus 20 mph will turn into 2004 plus 75 mph (assunimg 2004 was about 90 mph)once the mafias decide it is in their interests to support tha nationalists again.

And Al-Qeada in Kosovo will pick up its activities too. They will never be as strong as the nationalists, even if the "silent majority" of Albanians are sick of crime. Heck, the nationalist and Islamic radical factons of the Albanian Kosovo resurgence may even fight each other!

It will be fine with them to just keep their footprint in Kosovo. Gotta keep the Americans scared. They also need a base from which to stir things up in Bosnia...it's not fair, after all, the Serbs (Radical Party) have a yard to do the same with said country...lets see, the first place to stir things up, hmmm, why not Serbrenica?

Shame shame, the financial globalist's plan just backfired...

I hope I end up standing as a stupid fool, and NONE of this happens.

hahaha this really got you goin my dear serbian counterparts. You'd better get used to it as this is what is to come in the next few weeks/months. Therefore, i suggest that taking more realistic approach when the day comes it wan't hurt as much. Gathering from all your comments only reaferms again the Serbian propaganda and how brainwashed they have been from their own goverment. Like my fellow kosovars have been suggesting to you all that the official day will come and is knoking on the door now.

The Germans are again provoking conflicts in the region as they had when they supported Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia. Not only are the statements contradictory they are completely unwarranted. Serbs and Albanians cannot live together? Of course not since the west started supporting separatist movements in Serbia. The ambassador is not contradicting himself, he is simply stating that everyone expects the Serbs to be completely cleansed from Kosovo once Albanians get independence, and that is how "peace" will be achieved. The Germans had always waited for this day, when Serbia would fall apart. Knowing Germanys history I cannot believe that they are commenting on the Serbs and their politics. Instead of supporting a countrys national integrity the Germans are basically promoting separatists. Incredible, once again these statements would not be acceptable for any nation but since it is Serbia everything goes. Can I say double-standard?

The Germans might be trying to back track upon what their Amabassador said being out of context but it seems like it is the Germans who are out of context.

For an example of another series of "out of context" gaffs by Germans and further insight into the view of German politicians present and past read the article by former foreign minister and vice chancellor from 1998 to 2005 - Joscka Fisher's article in the Guardian trying to promote the cause of independence and failling appalingly,
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/joschka_fischer/2007/04/breaking_with_the_past.html

It would seem that Germany is only too keen to suggest to Serbs that they should "break with the past" but it seems the Germans would hope no one recalls their involment in the recent past let alone during the second world war!! The Germans were just as complicit in agitating, training and inspiring the ethnic-Albanian KLA terrorists as was the US's not so secret CIA. Read the article, "German Intelligence and the CIA supported Al Qaeda sponsored Terrorists in Yugoslavia"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BEH502A.html
Maybe the Germans hope that this is resolved before the real truth is fully known, but then the Ambassador seems to have let his tongue slip more then he now wishes!!!

Whichever person tells the truth and the reality which the serbs do not like, has to be removed from whatever position he or she has.
Serbs asked for Ahtisaari to be removed, now are asking for Mr. ZObel to be removed, and even in the past have asked for a lot of political leaders to be removed just because those leaders said the truth which the serbs didnt like because the serbs have some real problems with the truth and reality due to the fact that the serbs live in the World of myths.
Basically, whoever does not buy the serb propaganda and myths, has to be removed because nobody should stand against the serb propaganda. This is how the rule is according to serb dreamers.
********
Again, thanks to Mr. Zobel for pointing up some really great facts such as the one that Kosova was occupied by Serbia in 1912.
There are some orthodox churches in Kosova, but there are also some Cacholic churches in Kosova too which date even older than the orthodox ones, but the decision of Kosova should not be made based on the fact that there are some orthodox or catholic churches but it should be based on the reality in the ground which clearly shows that KOSOVA will be an independent country, no matter if the serb dreamers like it or not.

Greetings to all from Kosova/o.
This is my second week in here.It is an interesting situation people are living in.Even though still are not 100% certain, citizens of Kosova/o are preparing for the first 120 days after the status.
Hopefully it will be a good one for all Kosovan People.
I would like to invite all of you to come and visit Kosova/o,it's not and ideal place to live in at the moment,but spirit and williness is here.People are tired of this situation and they deserve better.
Give Peace a chance.

I know nobody wants to hear this, even many pro EU Serbs, but hear it goes. Gemany is rebuilding it's empire under the guise of the European Union. To do this it must have the Serbs under control. three ways to do this. First, divide the Serbs into many small states. Two, strenghten the Serbs local enemys (Albanians, Muslium Bosnians & Croatians). Three, if one and two don't work just eliminate the Serbs altogether. Germany has tried this in the past and I hope it's plain to see now by Mr. Zobel's words if not Germany's actions since reunification. This is a wake up call! Only unity will save the Serbs!!!!

M and other Kosovo Albanians / pro Albanians,

I dont have a problem with the inevitable, but, comments from Mr.Zobel are so stupid and naive I cant believe someone in that position can be so out of touch with the bigger picture.

He really is advocating borders drawn on ethnic lines and. Surely, from a modern Kosovo Albanian point of view, you want and welcome ethnic minorities living amongst you?

Or do you want your own land based upon 100% of your own ethnic group?

If you want the latter, then this is nothing short of fascism.

I liked the comments made by the ambassador of Germany to Serbia. He is telling the truth to the Serbs. Enough is enough, now they must wake up and realize what they have done against their neighbours. Mr. Ambassador the Serbs does not like the comments because your are saying the truth and it hurts for many of them.

Another German, former foreign minister Joscha Ficsher yesterday:

"In the 1990s, following its atrocities in Bosnia, Slobodan Milosevic's Serb regime abolished Kosovo's long-standing autonomy, suppressing the rights of the province's overwhelming Albanian majority. Instead of simply watching in horror, as it did at the start of the Bosnian war, NATO decided to intervene before Milosevic's forces could again devastate one of the constituent ethnic groups of the former Yugoslavia. Security of the European Union and Europe's moral responsibility after the crimes of World War II were at stake."

"Resolving Kosovo's status is also a necessity for the province's Serb minority, which continues to live in uncertainty, not knowing whether to look to Belgrade or Pristina for protection of its rights. It would free both Serbia and the EU to move forward on Serbia's domestic reforms and international integration."

"Reintegrating Kosovo into Serbia is not tenable. Since the end of the conflict in June 1999, Serbia has not exercised any governing authority over Kosovo. Under UN administration, legitimate Kosovar institutions for managing domestic affairs have been created. With these institutions in place, Kosovo's people expect greater self-government.

Sadly, Belgrade's vision of Kosovo returning to Serbian rule - albeit with autonomy - ignores these realities. Indeed, Serbia has no viable strategy for integrating Kosovo's 2 million people into Serbian political institutions and public life. "

I would kindly ask people who are supporting this kind of statement from German ambassador to tell us, honestly, do Serbs can have their own state at all, what be its boundaries, and is there at all any point at which this policy towards Serbia should stop? Dont get me wrong, this is not rethorical question, I sincerely want to hear your opinion, since it looks like we could face destiny of Kurds or Palestinians, according to some of you and Mr. Zobbel, of course.

RE: German Ambassador Zobel

Archduke Franz Ferdinand was making the same comments to anniliate Serbia and annex Bosnia to the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1905-1912 and was assasinated by Gavrilo Princip led by Tankosic and Dragutin Dimitrijevic.

Yes, Hans Deitrich Genscher within the Cole government meddled with Yugoslav sovereignty in 1989 and along with the Vatican were first to recognize Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina igniting a civil war in Yugoslavia.

Yes, Hitler invaded and divided Yugoslavia in 1941 but were defeated by the Allies in 1945.

In 2007, Germany is the Economic powerhouse of the EU. Charlemagne was the leader of the Holy Roman Empire during the middle ages, Germany is back in the 21st century with vengeance.

If Germany has any sense of justice and reality, the citizens of Germany should demand that Zobel be recalled and dismissed.

"In remarks during a panel discussion in Belgrade on Tuesday, Ambassador Andreas Zobel warned that if Serbia continues to oppose the U.N. plan for the southern Serbian province, it risks seeing questions raised about other parts of its territory."

Last I heard 1244 was the prevailing UN document regarding Serbia's sovereignty over a peaceful Kosovo.

"Not all diplomats are peace negotiators, but all peace negotiators are diplomats."

The German Ambassador said no thing new regarding Serbia's claim over Kosovo, ie. that Kosovo came under Serbia only in 1912. The same was said clearly by President Tadic several months ago. Using distorted and untrue historic arguments does not help Serbia. If the Turks used the Ottoman arguments the Balkans would have been called Turkey a long time ago. It is therefore best that the historic myth about Kosovo to Serbia be done away with once and for all. Just it is high time to let go of Kosovo and that the Serb people look to the future.

The arrogance of the ambassador is quite astonishing. If he wants to link Kosovo to the status of Vojvodina and the Sandžak, will he also accept the linkage of Kosovo's status to that of the RS in BiH? Oh no, that's not allowed!

Mr. Zobel should resign from his post.

To all the moderate Albanians who read and don't write on the blogs, you really have a choice:

1)Remove the current PISG leadership from the clutches of Albanian extremists and corrupt and BlindUS Senators and Congressman.

2) Relieve yourselves of the false image that allignment with Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia with refresh the your dying fruits.

or

3) Go ahead like in the past and committ to varying degrees of violence, because your dream was not realised.

You ewere given an unrealistic and false presentation of the future by Holbrooke and paddy Ashdown via Tony Blair. Don't isolate yourselves. Whether the EU like it or not Serbia will once again be a prominent political, security and economic power in eastern europe.

Choose your path wisely and without false influence.

The German Ambassador said no thing new regarding Serbia's claim over Kosovo, ie. that Kosovo came under Serbia only in 1912. (Gjini, 12 April 2007, 18:20)

The Orthodox Kosovo Churches built under the Nemenja dynasty bear proof of the first settlement of Serbs that occured in Kosovo. The first Serbian settelment occured in Kosovo and Old Montenegro.

Kosovo was annexed from Ottoman Rule, not Albanian rule in 1912.

Kosovo never was, is and ever will be Albanian. The Serbian Constitution guarantees it, every Serb knows it and no amount of Albanian propoganda and distortion of the truth will ever change it.

So Zobel is now trying to apologise & the German Govt. is distancing itself from it's Ambassador - well, well looks like Serbia needs to assert itself diplomatically more often.

This will stop the lies that are peddled as fact that I hear so often by proAlbanian commentators as exemplified in many of the above comments and even in undiplomatic circles of the West!!!

I think the term put his foot in his mouth is very apt indeed. Many thanks for the own goal Mr Zobel and collect your p45 on the way out!

I am sure that Kosovo Independens won´t cause any other problem for Serbia such as Vojvodina or Sandjak...

One thing though; I now for sure that once serbs politician and people in general(serbs) "realise" that the fact kosovo has nothing to do with serbia, they will do themselvs a big favor...WAKEING UP from this Utopia and starting to educate their children to respect other people

Guys what the world is trying to tell you (Serbians) stop looking at the History books written by Serbian scholars as they are fulling you!!!!

What I am trying to explain here is that actually what the German ambassador is telling you is exactly the same thing other countries are arguing. However, you have to take into consideration cultural differences (In my opinion something Serbians don't understand at all) and understand that this a way Germans express themselves (direct way). However, British French etc are arguing exactly the same thing, and the only difference is the way off communicating with the public.

I already mentioned in this forum (though not everything is published) if we were to divide any country we should start by Serbia for obvious reasons (ethnic composition of the population).

And by the way I don't mean to insult anyone by any means by this comments but simply encourage to think independently (unbiased).

This article is a apology to Serbia for this mans remarks!!!

Which were ridicules & false, Only desperate Albanians could believe and wish for such statements to be true...

“Zobel said that insisting on Kosovo remaining an integral part of Serbia, based on the claim that it officially became Serbian land in 1912, meant that Hungary could try to claim Vojvodina, a Serbian province since 1918.

Zobel was also quoted as saying ‘it was untrue that Kosovo had always belonged to Serbia, since it officially became Serbia’s in 1912, along with Vojvodina, which joined in 1918.’

‘This is not a threat, but a mere analysis,’ he said adding that Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica’s insistence that Kosovo is Serbia’s land ‘led to stagnation and a situation Serbia couldn’t win.’

He stated his belief that Serbs and Albanians could never reach an agreement, explaining that the push for the continuation of the talks was only meant to postpone the final status settlement. ”

(…)

“‘However, Serbia cannot regain control over the province, as its Albanian majority no longer wishes to live in Serbia. That’s why Kosovo is a unique case’, Zobel said.”

DAMN IT, ZOBEL IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

Kosovo must be independent. Sometimes I think that the majority of Serbians that post nationalistic comments here belongs to “Milosevic Generation” who learned all this “Serbs-Are-Holy-Innocent-People-Threatened-By-All-Others” trhough distorted propagandistic schoobooks in the 90’s…

These comments from Zobel are quite bizare and untrue. An elementary search through history would show that all the regions he commented on have been a part of the Serbian state throughout.

With the partition of Serbia, Croatia, Romania and the present day Bosnia (Federation of Bosnia & Hercegovina and the Republika Srpska)between the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires, Kosovo fell under the Turks while northern Serbia (the Vojvodina region)was occupied by Austria-Hungary (as was Slavonia, Isria, Dalmatia in Croatia and Translyvania in Romania). The Hungarian and German minorities in these areas are due to that occupation.

Kosovo's demographics stem from Ottoman rule as well as other factors such as high birthrates among Albanians and socio-ecomonic factors which have forced many Serbs to migrate out particularly over the past 100 years. These patterns can be seen through census data during this period.

Vojvodina means 'Duchy' in Serbian and during the Austro-Hungarian occupation it was known as the crownland of "Voivodship of Serbia and Tamis Banat".

With the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire Vojvodina voted to reunify with Serbia as did Istria, Dalmatia with Croatia etc. The regions' population has always been, as it is currently, dominately Serbian. Recent census figures show that out of the regions' 2,031,992 residents, 1,321,807 are ethnic Serbs, while Hungarians constitute 290,207. I understand that some people, mostly Gheg's and Tosk's will dispute this, saying that this is due to re-settlements etc but many areas in the former Yugoslavia have had migrations and re-settlments due to the wars and actions of all sides to the conflicts.

Reading some comments on various blogs on this website it seems that the Gheg's and Tosk's are quick to point this out against others, particularly Serbs,but ignore this when referring to the Kosovo Albanian population. It just does not wash.

I think that the only changes to Balkan borders in the future will be the independence of the Republika Srpska and the Hercegovina Croat cantons and the establishment of a Bosniak State out of the central parts of the FBiH.

In the interests of long term peace and with pressure from the international community parts of Kosovo, western Macedonia and southern Montenegro will be unforunately given to Albania. One can only hope that the Macedonians from Mala Prespa and the Greeks from northern Epirus will follow the examples of the Albanian minority in neighbouring countries and call for independence.

Zobel's comments therefore do not hold much truth but as a German diplomat he should know better.

It may well be true that Serbia deserves better political elite, but it is absolutely certain that it deserves better ambassadors.

Olli. I fully agree whit you.

Whos was kosovo "officialy" before 1912? Ottomans? And before?

Germany's ambassador to Serbia Andreas Zobel has clearly intentionally put his foot into his mouth and I wonder if the German Govt. can remove it. Time will tell.
For ambassador Zobel to even mention Vojvodina and Sandjak at this time is to tell Serbia, its Diaspora and the World that this is what is in the minds of the German elite.
Amin.

Steven from Sydney,

Are you not affraided that the sky will fell on you? How can you twist, falsify history in such an shamefull way? Vojvodina is part of Serbia only since 1918. It was never serbian before but hungarian for 1000 years. Bacska (the richest part of Vojvodina)was 80-90% hungarian before you got it as a present after WWI.

I am surprised that some Serbians are so hurt by words of HE German Ambassador. If Serbians are claiming that province Kosovo is historically Serbian. In the same logic, Hungarians can claim province Vajdasag/Vojvodina back, since it was until 1918 Hungarian, and was for 900 years a part of Hungary.

Djuro UK,

To a degree you are right with regard to German ambassador for being as blunt as he ha been ( perhaps he should have applied the sensitivity issue towards the Serbian people here since he is to serve in Serbia) But let me ask you something? Would you appreciate if someone told you the way the matter is and prepare you in time for what is to come, or someone telling you twisted stories and then leave you with the shock of the news????!!!!
As far as i am concerned, i can live with the devil so long as he didn't interfere with my live. What makes it interesting living in London for you?(tolerance, independence, proud of your identity) I want the same thing to be applied in both Kosovo and Serbia. Is that realistic (think views of Milosevic then and Kostunica now), same sh**** different person (pardon my French).

I hope i made my values clear to you my dear Serbian UK friend ( think outside the box)

regards

Firstly to Joe who responded to my previous entry, I am not Serbian. Secondily I have not falsified any history, the information I presented is readily available.

You said that Hungary ruled Vojvodina for a thousand years before 1918, well Serbian Slav tribes settled into Vojvodina in the 6th century A.D. The Magyar tribes moved into the Carpathian Basin region around modern day Hungary, Slovakia and northern Romania where they encountered mainly Slavic populations living there.

Parts of Vojvodina were annexed by the Hungarian Kingdom from the 13th century and Austria annexed more after the Ottoman invasions of South-eastern Europe. During this period of Hungarian and later Austro-Hungarian occupation local Serbian nobles ruled Vojvodina as Vassals of these empires, eg, Jovan Nenad ruled Backa beginning in 1526.

So, Hungary did not rule Vojvodina for a thousand years. And the word Backa is a slavic word which means "land which belongs to the city of Bac". Bac is a city in Serbia.

The Hungarian Kingdom ruled Croatia and Slavonia from 1102 to 1918, so does that mean that Hungary gave the Croats their nation as a gift after World War One?

Or was Slovakia, Transylvania and southern Ukraine also given as a gift after the war? Did Austria give the Czech lands of Bohemia and Morovia as a gift to the Czechs or was that Austrian land cruelly taken away from Austria?

Various European Empires throughout history ruled and annexed different lands over and over again, it does not mean that all the land they conquered is theirs.

To Joe,

The only thing shameful is your version of history. I am sure that the vast majority of Hungarians do not have such a narrow vision of history on the region and Hungarian, Austro-Hungarian involvement in it.

We are so equal in diverse way…

Its fact, the reality heart …Its about time to declare a peace of all kind a specially from coming from government sides and accept e new reality of Kosovo… in order to develop our live and nations lets try to live independently maybe we will love each other more in new reality called EU countries…any how Europe will gather us again!!!

”When you lose, don't lose the lesson”

Girl from Kosovo