Reactions to first UN SC Kosovo session

To those who suggest that there is support for Independence I suggets you read the following piece - Kosovo Shelved by All Sides
http://www.kommersant.com/p756080/Kosovo_UN_Ahtisaari_plan/

In particular realise that beyond the US, UK, France & Belgium - there is no support for this imposed predetermined plan promoted by the US & UK! No EU unity either, even the Italians sided with Slovakia not to support this imposition and the more this plan is considered the less chance of it's imposition. To quote from the article

"several temporary members posed some tricky questions to Mr. Ahtisaari. For instance, the UN general secretary's special representative to Kosovo could not answer a question about how much time during the negotiations was devoted to a discussion of the most important question, the status of Kosovo, and what alternatives had been proposed. It became clear that no alternatives to independence had been discussed."

- how do you hold negotiations without discussing all the possible alternatives???? Looks like not only are the Serbian ethnic-Albanian leadership negotiating skills spent but also Ahtisaari's negotiating skills were clearly lacking too - less said of his mediation skills!!!

The Russians don't wish to pick the plan to pieces and would rather get on with formulating an agrrement that is a true compromise, one which is stable and lasting. The more that the US & UK push this plan the greater a folly it will become!!!

I feel sorry for PRINCIP that is still feeding himself with empty russian propaganda. REMEMBER DEAR PRINCIP, USA fought for KOSOVA not Russia, USA WON THE WAR and USA WILL DECIDE for its fate so therefore Kosova will be independent. Russia can only talk but just like USA decided to fight for KOsova, it will also decide for its fate, not the old Russia who cant even solve problems in her own land.
Sorry to say but you are just falling a victim of Russia and Kostunica lies.
PRINCIP, at this time you are in a LOSE/LOSE situation and you will be like that for as long as you keep living in the world of myths.

Princip. I agree with you 100%. There will not be any independent Kosovo, thats for sure. But to tell you the truth, I feel a little bit sorry that the K Albanians have been fooled by US and especially their media. Every person with education knows that it is impossible according to all laws to take a bit out of a sovereign state and suddenly make it independent. Im afraid this mess will continue for decades. I promise you, when we write here in 10 years, nothing has changed with Kosovo.

All other alternatives are worse than independence. The West will give Kosovo independence since all other alternatives will cause more problems in Balkans. All in the West knows that giving Kosovo back to racist Serbia is not an option. The website of the Serbian government is full of extreme anti Albanian hate speech. Visit the website of government of Kosovo and see if you can find any nationalism and/or hate speech there.

The Serbian proposal stinks. They want Kosovo to be autonomy or actually it is very difficult to understand what they offer because they first said more than autonomy less then independence, so confederation and now are saying autonomy again. Less rights than e.g. Serbs in Bosnia. But they offer autonomy to Albanians Kosovo and independence from Kosovo to villages in Kosovo with Serbian majority. The substance in all the actions and sayings is that Serbs should have more rights in countries where they are minority than any other minority. You can not call it anything else than racism and ethnocentrism.

The Kommersant article was very good since it gave good details of what is going on in the UNSC. Much props!

I wish the press gave more detailed coverage of the individual positions of the less well known non-permanent members of the UNSC.

It does seem that the Ahtissari is not a fait accompli and it would be irresponsible to say that it is THE plan for resolving the Kosovo status question and then force a vote that would pass, resulting in another win-lose outcome against Serbia, or not pass, perhaps triggering a crisis in Kosovo proper. Although the West would prefer a yes over a no vote, a rushed vote would be tantomount to sabotaging any further peace efforts and attempts of national and international reconciliation in the Balkans.

Although the latest version of the plan appears to have rushed towards independence without serious discussions of alternatives, it is not to say that the Ahtissari plan does not hold any good points. It obviously does, and Serbs in and outside Kosovo should strive to make reasonable ammendments to the plan (to all sides) so that Belgrade and Pristina can reach a lasting, or at least a better compromise. So far, the Belgrade approach has cried with sovereignty, nationalism and cliche historical lessons that ring hollow in the West.

It would be in its best interests to work (perhaps through Russian channels) to modify UN plans (even if it is Ahtissari's for now) in case there is a precipitous vote.

Dear Princip,
I would like to point out that the EU parliament clearly spoke in favour of recognised independence (de facto independence is already the reality).
That said we will see what is going to happen.

Afrim Hoxha,

your right about the Lose/lose but Serbia is not driving this - it is the inability of the ethnic-Albanian leadership who wholeheartedly believe in nothing but a promise that ex-political leaders of the US (Clinton/Holbrooke/Albright) gave but guess what they are not in power! Equally Russia has moved on as has China (remeber they had their embassey deliberatly bombed). Today the UN SC is not under the US command and lets face it the US have lost a great deal of credibilty in the UN over the last few years.

I would be intereted in you providing some alternatives in the Western media who carry anything different from the Kommersant view. The most positive spin on AP news is;

"Ahtisaari appeared before the Security Council to discuss his plan Tuesday and faced opposition and skepticism from some members. The proposal has the support of United States and key European Union states, but Russia has implied it could use its veto power in the council if Serbia's interests are not addressed."
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/05/europe/EU-POL-Kosovo-UN-Plan.php

- Certainly blows the clear lie that has been peddled in the Albanian media about overwhelming support! Ask yourself if this really was the case then why no resolution - answer - no support beyond US, UK, France and Belgium - hardly overwhelming!!!

Maybe the next few weeks will make your leaderhip think again about creating the win-win all the peoples of Serbia deserve - including Serbians of Albanian descent from it's province of Kosovo & Metohija!! This opportunity is still open - is it not time for a real opportunity for reconciliation and respect for all the peoples of Serbia?

Massimo,

they voted to support the UN plan put forth by Ahtisaari but if the plan is not adopted and affirmed by the UN SC it remains a porposal and is not a resolution. In which case the EU parliment and it's respective nation members as well as the US is still required to respect the UN resolution 1244 that they agreed only 8 years ago after ILLEGAL bombardment of a sovereign state.

Of course there will be no unilateral declaration since no one who wants to recognise an ILLEGAL act not even the US want this since they play right into Russia's best interets and would immediatly cause the frozen conflicts of South Ossetia, Pridnistria to thaw with recognition too.

However, where would such a move lead to ? The answer would be continued ambiguity and partition of the province! I really don't believe this to be in the best interest of anyone in Serbia as a whole but I guess if this is forced in some way then the State of Serbia will need to make the best of what ever it faces at the time but in the future it might be able to ensure it's integrity. I really couldn't say the same positive note for a Southern Kosovo & Metohija with dubious legality and the continued legal threat against it - one needs only look at Northern Cyprus!

Can you start to understand the message? Win-win is still possible and remains the best opportunity for reconciliation and respect for all the peoples of Serbia! It would be the best solution for the region and be a progressive move to EU membership for the whole of the Western Balkans - without that win-win everyone will lose - some nore then others but still lose-lose!

It is clear that the EU is split on the issue and for an agreement they need it to pass through the UNSC which is unlikely to happen in its current format, a crisis of EU foreign policy is likely to happen. So the albanians have been made a promise the west cannot keep unless serbia and russia are given a large carrot which is not likely. For Russia to let Kosovo become independant the west needs to accept it as a precedent which they wont because they know Russia stands to gain many disputed territories of the old USSR. Kosovo will remain part of Serbia and the albanians are kidding themselves. It makes no difference who in the UNSC is for it, it can be 14 votes to 1 for independance but if that one vote is a veto its no independance.

Hey Princip,
You should know that this UNSC session was only to test the waters, but beleive me when time comes to vote on Ahtisari's package you will see the YEYS with 2-3 Neys and or absetnies, and this means a vote of BIG YES for Kosova's Independence.

Is what I was saying all this time. This story is going to go on for a long time to come, unless something is given to the Serbian side, so as to please the national feeling and ensure the continuation of the Serbian people and heritage.
As the plan is now, it wont be backed with a desive resolution. I repeat the same story is going on in Cyprus for the last 40 years.

Serbs must understand that is better for them to accept Ahtisari plan. Both ways Kosova will be independent but is better for serbs to take advantage of the rights given to them in Ahtisari plan.

To Princip: I don't know what you do but you spend a lot of time writing here. And I'm very sorry to see you comments in each article that are copy and paste, as well one sided. What bases Serbia has when they claim about 15% loss of land, that makes clear that they don't care about the local Serbs in Kosovo but for the land how they can abuse. I wish that one day Kosovars will live together as they did before '90. Peace!!!

Arguing with Princip and his kind , is equivalent to questioning credibility of myths. Same old same old, lies and lies, and sad story is that they believe on them. He even quotes a article from kommersant Russia daily newspaper (obviously pro Slavic newspaper) – first time I heard about that newspaper anyways.
It was the same with NATO bombing, Rusia ,..Rusia , China will help us. Sure they did help you , and as for China they got to bombed as well.
Princip if you think Russia and China are cradle of democracy, justice and freedom, what you doing in UK? why Serbian youth looks toward west for better life and education?

"You should know that this UNSC session was only to test the waters" an Albanian here wrote...

oh boy, ...what will have to happen before you realize that you are lying to yourself...?

UNSC-sessions..."only" to test waters... is that what the albanians newspapers told you? :)

To princip,
Komersant???????

anything from Washington post or new york times

Afrim wrote:
"REMEMBER DEAR PRINCIP, USA fought for KOSOVA not Russia, USA WON THE WAR and USA WILL DECIDE"

Is this for real??
Do you people actually believe this?? Is this what gets you through the day??

Afrim..Yes, you're correct. Perhaps the US might decide in the end, but I'm really astonished that anybody would take your quotes seriously..

Princip, you are saying that the Ex leaders of USA are not in power anymore, but guess what, Albanians in USA have friends from both great parties, Democrats and Republicans also. Just as a reminder to you that even Joseph Dioguardi himself is a republican so do not get happy that we have no friends in the side of republicans. Also Bob Dole, one of the senior leaders of the Republican party is one of our greatest helpers.
But lets look how you have your friends worldwide. France was with you, but not is in our side. Same thing with England, Italy and even Greece is not in your side anymore. Oh i forgot, you have some african and arab countries in your side and Slovakia. Russia says that both sides Prishtina and Belgrade have to agree in order for Russia to accept it, so therefore if we were to stay under Serbia and we wouldnt like it, then Russia would be in our side since it says that both sides have to agree. But anyway, who would ask an old Russia after all. Even you the serbs are trying to leave Russia and join the EU, so how would you expect Russia to help you when in fact you are trying to leave it and head towards EU.Come on lets get to reality you stayed enough dreaming my dear neighbor.
You asked me what i have to say based on western journalists since you quoted an out of date newspaper of Russia but I suggest to you to see what Nenad Canak had to say about Kostunica and his presenation at the UN SC, but anyway, every single western newspaper talks the reality, which is KOSOVA WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.
Anyway, I do not argue with you because i have to or i want to but just for fun, since you are still living in the world of myths, so i find it funny arguing with a person who lives in the world of myths.
But still i would suggest to you to get back to reality because i feel sorry for you.
MARK, do not make urself happy about the EU splittage. This is an absolute propaganda because EU is not split at all but overwhelmengly is in favor of Independence while some countries who were divided themsleves like Slovakia are against it but at the end of the day who would really care what Slovakia has to say? haha. Your supporters make me laugh when they try to raise their voice that is not even heard in their own little countries.
I hope you a very nice day and wish you less myths in your lives.

The “negotiations” in Wienna were never truly negotiations to start with.
In any (voluntary) negotiations both involved and interested parties are aiming to gain something and are willing to let something go in return.
In Wienna:
- The mediator ( Mr. Ahtisari) was muscling the Serbian negotiation team into submission. Kosovo Albanians were mere décor.
- Serbia had to choose between lose or lose. Stated principles (and endorsed by all USA protégés) were: no withdrawal from the negotiation process, no separation of Northern Kosovo, no Kosovo in Serbia and a predetermined due date for defining and presenting the Final Status Proposal to the UN SC regardless of the progress or outcome.
- Kosovo Albanians had to choose between win or win: either they gain a second state on Balkans .. or … they gain a second state on Balkans.
- Serbia could not even refuse to continue giving the legitimacy to this “process” as it was frantically echoed by every US/EU emissary as likely to be viewed as an “…act of non-cooperation…” ?!
-

Therefore, the entire “Wienna charade” never was nor it was meant to be a negotiation.
What is a logical reaction of any State if given the following choice: in return for 15% of your territory your citizens remaining on that territory will be given right to live without being attacked every day, to speak and to go to school? (what is , in essence, on the table once you take out all the bits and frills)

Any takers?

Princip, following comes also from Kommersant, you probably know where to find it (article translated on B92):
According to Kommersant, this propaganda campaign (they are talking about srbian politicians) is deliberately circumventing the reality, which is that in essence Kosovo has long been lost to Serbia:

“The issue now is not how to keep it under Belgrade's authority, but how to find a solution to will avoid destabilization and that will allow both the international community and Serbia to save face.”

As you can read the russians already have given the hope (if they ever had hope) that Kosovo will stay part of Srbia. The only question that remains is - What does Russia really wants in return for support for Kosovo's independence? Before the start of the summer, there will be another recognised country on the world map - Kosova. That's just enough time for you to accept this fact(if you already didn't).

For starters as an American I have been employed in Kosovo for the past two years. I am fully aware of both cultures and their stories as to what led up to the negotiations. I am still curious as to the personal gains sought out by the USA in supporting Kosovo independence and even involving ourselves in the war of 1999. The US does NOT get involved unless there is something in it for them.
It is the opinion of myself and several other Americans that not only the USA but the International community in general has no right in negotiating over a territory that does not belong to them nor the K. Albanians. If I studied my readings correctly Kosovo has been the territory of the Serbs since the early 13th century. There are still several Monasteries throughout Kosovo dating back to the 13th century. Yes according to demographics the majority are Albanians. But it is no secret that since 1999 the albanian population in Kosovo has at the minimum doubled. Situation taken advantage of? So too in Texas and California the majority will very soon be Mexican. If they want to be independent countries will the International community grant them their request?
I agree that KFOR should remain in Kosovo for a period of time. I agree that resolution 1244 should be implemented. I believe that Kosovo is the history and the heart of Serbia according to history books. I believe that just as I am of German descent I was born in the USA so that makes me AMERICAN, so too with all those that were born in Kosovo are in fact Serbian.
It is our moral obligation as an International community to protect those in need but it is without a doubt injust and immoral to erase a countries history, oocupy their land and then make the decision to give that land to another race without the consent of the true occupier. Am I the only one seeing the logic in this situation. Both sides are guilty for the past, that is no seceret. The Serbs have paid the price for their crimes at an international level (72 day bombing campaign). I will use this analogy for the simple minded (politicians etc.)"If you stir up a bees nest, you are bound to get stung." I use this for immigrants to US and any other country. When you CHOOSE to leave your country of birth and migrate to another country, do not impose your religious beliefs nor your culture nor attempt to claim their land as you own... You are "bound to get stung."

Princip,

I am disgusted when you call me "Serbian of Albanian descent"

You know? If Albanians had a funny bone they'd play the Quebec way: create a federation and blackmail the federal government with secesson referendums in exchange for billions of euros in 'equalization' payments.

C'mon Serbs! Not only are you not Canada, but also you cannot afford Kosovo. Let it go.

Ahmet Isufi,

"but beleive me when time comes to vote on Ahtisari's package you will see the YEYS "

- if that was the case why the reason for delay??? Surely if the resolution could be passed then it would have been done yesterday!!!

The US and the UK have pushed through a proposal that is "futile & counterproductive" they can try again but what will change in the meantime? Do you really think that South Africa, Ghana, Congo, Peru, Indonesia as smaller nations in the scale of influence would be happy to forge through a resolution that legalises the amputation of a nation because one of it's ethnic groups become a majority in one province? This would be state suicide for any of these small nations! Slovakia and Italy have not expressed any support and are in all instances inclined to abstain in future - Slovakia has legislated in it's own parliment that there should be no Independence. Beyond which both China & Russia have made their stance clear.

You might be right in testing the water but guess what it was too hot to pass - now is the time for the proposal to be diluted with some cold reality so that it can pass - that cold reality is a compromise solution based on Serbia's terrirorial Integrity !!!

Also can you tell me where in the world does negotiation and mediation mean we will not even consider any other alternatives beyond the one we have already determined must be the case? - I think more then anything else will have been a big Question mark over Ahtisaari's credibility amongst any wavering voters - big big mistake by the so called "mediator". Russia does not need to shoot the plan to bits but if the US & Uk continue with the folly I think they will start pulling it apart completly.

Princip, a very interesting article that contains far more information than any American source will report on this matter. In fact, I found it almost impossible to find any major news outlet in the States yesterday that actually devoted an article to this, rather than putting it in the news ticker.

The article clearly demonstrates two increasingly important points.

1. Without the UN's blessing from a resolution, the status of Kosovo will not be embraced by the international community - especially Europe. Each state may individually support independence, but without a UN resolution, these governments will not risk going against international arbitration. You've got to hand it to Europe for praying at the altar of bureaucratic procedure. Therefore it seems abundantly obvious that if a resolution is to be passed, and by passed I mean not vetoed by Russia or China, both the language and the substance of the resolution will have to be changed to accomodate more interests for Belgrade. Passing a resolution recognizing the sovereignty of a new country should not be taken lightly and cannot simply be crammed through by one or two nations. In the end, Pristins will have to make far more concessions in order to gain its independence (which we should still not rule out, nor delay for years as some have suggested).

2. The crisis in Kosovo is no longer in the hands of Serbs and Albanians - if it ever really was. This is shaping up to be a battle between the US and UK on one side and Russia and China on the other. All these states have their interests in supporting or denying independence to Kosovo and it will be interesting to see the ongoing negotiating among these states for a more unified position in the next few weeks and months.

Conrad,
Thank you. Anyone who really does their homework and researches Kosovo and what it's all about, like you have done, will come to the same conclusions. Unfortunately, journalists are lazy and never wanted the facts to get in the way of a great story, and politicians are all about which group donates the most to their campaigns and couldn't care less about truth or justice. Things are slowly changing however, and Kosovo will never be independent because of smart people like you.

“Having demonstrated that Ahtisaari’s plan is an illegal and illegitimate proposal aimed at seizing 15% of Serbia’s territory, which directly breaches the UN Charter”

Well why is there 90% Albanians in that territory. Did the Albanian suddenly on a Sunday morning pop out of nowhere from the rich soils of Kosovo like mushrooms? Or the fact of the matter is Albanians were there before the Serb occupation. This guy speeches cause so much stir yet he’s proving very popular back in Serbia.

Kustunica is doing no good to neither side, his argument hold no realistic grounds and are very anti Albanian, which fuels the situation in Kosovo. No matter what the future holds for Kosovo politically, the relation between Albanians and Serbs has to improve in order for Kosovo situation to become stable.

Re: Link suggested by Princip, UK, Thursday, 5 April, 2007, 10:00

It is my understanding that Komerssant is a Russian newspaper. In case someone wants to really hear from the source go to the United Nation's newroom. Click on the webcasts and you will have a chance to listen to statements and Q&A sessions with Ahtissari, Churkin, Wolf, Parry, and Sejdiu. It's quite clear that Kosovo is centerpiece and centerfold, and nobody has shelved it as a Russian journalist writes. Remember, SC's meeting was behind closed doors. The only comments were made after the meeting. Go to the website, listen, and judge for yourselves.
Stan

Conrad is saying the number of Albanian more than doubled in Kosovo since 1999. He does not know what he is talking about. Now I will present the facts:

Official Yugoslav statistical results: 82 % (est) Albanians in 1991.

UNMIK 2001: 88 % (est)

The number after the war increased with 6 % due to several reasons e.g. Albanian from Belgrade and Preshevo valley decided to move to Kosovo and some Serbs left Kosovo when NATO entered Kosovo.

My opinion is that Serbian people has a lot to work on changing their perception of themselves and the perception of how the World think of them.
Turning to independence or autonomy topic, I had asked this question before
What do you think about this scenario?
If in case, that UNSC does not support the independence of Kosovo and gives the Serb the right to keep Kosovo then what?
I just want to ask Serbian and Albanian commentators to give me a detailed answer of what they think is the solution who is going to do what and how (to Serbians) and what will be the reaction (to Albanians)? Do they think (their politicians) are going to go themselves deal directly with Albanians or they are going to govern them from Beograd? and how?
Seriously I just want to know and just a simple answer that they have the autonomy
Please reply to my request including Princip (not copy and paste Princip).

*Gunar Knob...
What kind of negotiaton are you talking about...In civil world there is no room for negotiation for human rights, serbs had to think that the truth will prevail,,,u (serbs)should be very thankful to Mr. Ahtisaris solution, I know the serbs who lives out of Kosova, they don´t give a damn thing about serbs who live in Kosova, but the politicians like Kustunica, Seselj and ma*Gunar Knob...
What kind of negotiaton are you talking about...In civil world there is no room for negotiation for human rights, serbs had to think before they start the ethnic clansing on albanians. Of course, truth will always prevail! U(serbs) should be very thankful to Mr. Ahtisaris solution, I know the serbs who lives out of Kosova, they don´t give a damn thing about serbs who live in Kosova, but the politicians like Kustunica, Seselj and many many more, they use them like Marionets for their own purposes, and edvantualy those become Marionets for real...
ny many more, they us them like Marionets for their own purposes

Hi Princip,

I just want to shed some light reagrding some of the comments I've read. First of all, if Serbia hasn't lost Kosovo to the Turks, I don't believe it's about to do so to the most impoverished country in Europe (Albania). If the Albanians feel that Kosovo is rightfully theirs, then why not fight for it. Why are they hanging on to the coattails of the West? I've heard so much hipe that if the Muslims are not given Kosovo, then all hell is going to break loose. What do these people believe the Serbs are going to do?, keil over and go to sleep? I believe that the Serbs learnt their lesson from the prior war and are re-equiped and ready to go into action, only after, they've exhausted every political alternative there is.

The Report sent to the UNSC by Mr Ahtisaari 26 March 2007 lacks one important answer: whether his suggestions correspond to the UN Charter or not. By avoiding a logical answer ("no, it does not correspond")he intentionally missed this statement in the Report.

To those who suggest that there is support for Independence I suggets you read the following piece - Kosovo Shelved by All Sides
http://www.kommersant.com/p756080/Kosovo_UN_Ahtisaari_plan/

In particular realise that beyond the US, UK, France & Belgium - there is no support for this imposed predetermined plan promoted by the US & UK! No EU unity either, even the Italians sided with Slovakia not to support this imposition and the more this plan is considered the less chance of it's imposition. To quote from the article

"several temporary members posed some tricky questions to Mr. Ahtisaari. For instance, the UN general secretary's special representative to Kosovo could not answer a question about how much time during the negotiations was devoted to a discussion of the most important question, the status of Kosovo, and what alternatives had been proposed. It became clear that no alternatives to independence had been discussed."

- how do you hold negotiations without discussing all the possible alternatives???? Looks like not only are the Serbian ethnic-Albanian leadership negotiating skills spent but also Ahtisaari's negotiating skills were clearly lacking too - less said of his mediation skills!!!

The Russians don't wish to pick the plan to pieces and would rather get on with formulating an agrrement that is a true compromise, one which is stable and lasting. The more that the US & UK push this plan the greater a folly it will become!!!

I feel sorry for PRINCIP that is still feeding himself with empty russian propaganda. REMEMBER DEAR PRINCIP, USA fought for KOSOVA not Russia, USA WON THE WAR and USA WILL DECIDE for its fate so therefore Kosova will be independent. Russia can only talk but just like USA decided to fight for KOsova, it will also decide for its fate, not the old Russia who cant even solve problems in her own land.
Sorry to say but you are just falling a victim of Russia and Kostunica lies.
PRINCIP, at this time you are in a LOSE/LOSE situation and you will be like that for as long as you keep living in the world of myths.

Princip. I agree with you 100%. There will not be any independent Kosovo, thats for sure. But to tell you the truth, I feel a little bit sorry that the K Albanians have been fooled by US and especially their media. Every person with education knows that it is impossible according to all laws to take a bit out of a sovereign state and suddenly make it independent. Im afraid this mess will continue for decades. I promise you, when we write here in 10 years, nothing has changed with Kosovo.

All other alternatives are worse than independence. The West will give Kosovo independence since all other alternatives will cause more problems in Balkans. All in the West knows that giving Kosovo back to racist Serbia is not an option. The website of the Serbian government is full of extreme anti Albanian hate speech. Visit the website of government of Kosovo and see if you can find any nationalism and/or hate speech there.

The Serbian proposal stinks. They want Kosovo to be autonomy or actually it is very difficult to understand what they offer because they first said more than autonomy less then independence, so confederation and now are saying autonomy again. Less rights than e.g. Serbs in Bosnia. But they offer autonomy to Albanians Kosovo and independence from Kosovo to villages in Kosovo with Serbian majority. The substance in all the actions and sayings is that Serbs should have more rights in countries where they are minority than any other minority. You can not call it anything else than racism and ethnocentrism.

The Kommersant article was very good since it gave good details of what is going on in the UNSC. Much props!

I wish the press gave more detailed coverage of the individual positions of the less well known non-permanent members of the UNSC.

It does seem that the Ahtissari is not a fait accompli and it would be irresponsible to say that it is THE plan for resolving the Kosovo status question and then force a vote that would pass, resulting in another win-lose outcome against Serbia, or not pass, perhaps triggering a crisis in Kosovo proper. Although the West would prefer a yes over a no vote, a rushed vote would be tantomount to sabotaging any further peace efforts and attempts of national and international reconciliation in the Balkans.

Although the latest version of the plan appears to have rushed towards independence without serious discussions of alternatives, it is not to say that the Ahtissari plan does not hold any good points. It obviously does, and Serbs in and outside Kosovo should strive to make reasonable ammendments to the plan (to all sides) so that Belgrade and Pristina can reach a lasting, or at least a better compromise. So far, the Belgrade approach has cried with sovereignty, nationalism and cliche historical lessons that ring hollow in the West.

It would be in its best interests to work (perhaps through Russian channels) to modify UN plans (even if it is Ahtissari's for now) in case there is a precipitous vote.

Dear Princip,
I would like to point out that the EU parliament clearly spoke in favour of recognised independence (de facto independence is already the reality).
That said we will see what is going to happen.

Afrim Hoxha,

your right about the Lose/lose but Serbia is not driving this - it is the inability of the ethnic-Albanian leadership who wholeheartedly believe in nothing but a promise that ex-political leaders of the US (Clinton/Holbrooke/Albright) gave but guess what they are not in power! Equally Russia has moved on as has China (remeber they had their embassey deliberatly bombed). Today the UN SC is not under the US command and lets face it the US have lost a great deal of credibilty in the UN over the last few years.

I would be intereted in you providing some alternatives in the Western media who carry anything different from the Kommersant view. The most positive spin on AP news is;

"Ahtisaari appeared before the Security Council to discuss his plan Tuesday and faced opposition and skepticism from some members. The proposal has the support of United States and key European Union states, but Russia has implied it could use its veto power in the council if Serbia's interests are not addressed."
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/05/europe/EU-POL-Kosovo-UN-Plan.php

- Certainly blows the clear lie that has been peddled in the Albanian media about overwhelming support! Ask yourself if this really was the case then why no resolution - answer - no support beyond US, UK, France and Belgium - hardly overwhelming!!!

Maybe the next few weeks will make your leaderhip think again about creating the win-win all the peoples of Serbia deserve - including Serbians of Albanian descent from it's province of Kosovo & Metohija!! This opportunity is still open - is it not time for a real opportunity for reconciliation and respect for all the peoples of Serbia?

Massimo,

they voted to support the UN plan put forth by Ahtisaari but if the plan is not adopted and affirmed by the UN SC it remains a porposal and is not a resolution. In which case the EU parliment and it's respective nation members as well as the US is still required to respect the UN resolution 1244 that they agreed only 8 years ago after ILLEGAL bombardment of a sovereign state.

Of course there will be no unilateral declaration since no one who wants to recognise an ILLEGAL act not even the US want this since they play right into Russia's best interets and would immediatly cause the frozen conflicts of South Ossetia, Pridnistria to thaw with recognition too.

However, where would such a move lead to ? The answer would be continued ambiguity and partition of the province! I really don't believe this to be in the best interest of anyone in Serbia as a whole but I guess if this is forced in some way then the State of Serbia will need to make the best of what ever it faces at the time but in the future it might be able to ensure it's integrity. I really couldn't say the same positive note for a Southern Kosovo & Metohija with dubious legality and the continued legal threat against it - one needs only look at Northern Cyprus!

Can you start to understand the message? Win-win is still possible and remains the best opportunity for reconciliation and respect for all the peoples of Serbia! It would be the best solution for the region and be a progressive move to EU membership for the whole of the Western Balkans - without that win-win everyone will lose - some nore then others but still lose-lose!

It is clear that the EU is split on the issue and for an agreement they need it to pass through the UNSC which is unlikely to happen in its current format, a crisis of EU foreign policy is likely to happen. So the albanians have been made a promise the west cannot keep unless serbia and russia are given a large carrot which is not likely. For Russia to let Kosovo become independant the west needs to accept it as a precedent which they wont because they know Russia stands to gain many disputed territories of the old USSR. Kosovo will remain part of Serbia and the albanians are kidding themselves. It makes no difference who in the UNSC is for it, it can be 14 votes to 1 for independance but if that one vote is a veto its no independance.

Hey Princip,
You should know that this UNSC session was only to test the waters, but beleive me when time comes to vote on Ahtisari's package you will see the YEYS with 2-3 Neys and or absetnies, and this means a vote of BIG YES for Kosova's Independence.

Is what I was saying all this time. This story is going to go on for a long time to come, unless something is given to the Serbian side, so as to please the national feeling and ensure the continuation of the Serbian people and heritage.
As the plan is now, it wont be backed with a desive resolution. I repeat the same story is going on in Cyprus for the last 40 years.

Serbs must understand that is better for them to accept Ahtisari plan. Both ways Kosova will be independent but is better for serbs to take advantage of the rights given to them in Ahtisari plan.

To Princip: I don't know what you do but you spend a lot of time writing here. And I'm very sorry to see you comments in each article that are copy and paste, as well one sided. What bases Serbia has when they claim about 15% loss of land, that makes clear that they don't care about the local Serbs in Kosovo but for the land how they can abuse. I wish that one day Kosovars will live together as they did before '90. Peace!!!

Arguing with Princip and his kind , is equivalent to questioning credibility of myths. Same old same old, lies and lies, and sad story is that they believe on them. He even quotes a article from kommersant Russia daily newspaper (obviously pro Slavic newspaper) – first time I heard about that newspaper anyways.
It was the same with NATO bombing, Rusia ,..Rusia , China will help us. Sure they did help you , and as for China they got to bombed as well.
Princip if you think Russia and China are cradle of democracy, justice and freedom, what you doing in UK? why Serbian youth looks toward west for better life and education?

"You should know that this UNSC session was only to test the waters" an Albanian here wrote...

oh boy, ...what will have to happen before you realize that you are lying to yourself...?

UNSC-sessions..."only" to test waters... is that what the albanians newspapers told you? :)

To princip,
Komersant???????

anything from Washington post or new york times

Afrim wrote:
"REMEMBER DEAR PRINCIP, USA fought for KOSOVA not Russia, USA WON THE WAR and USA WILL DECIDE"

Is this for real??
Do you people actually believe this?? Is this what gets you through the day??

Afrim..Yes, you're correct. Perhaps the US might decide in the end, but I'm really astonished that anybody would take your quotes seriously..

Princip, you are saying that the Ex leaders of USA are not in power anymore, but guess what, Albanians in USA have friends from both great parties, Democrats and Republicans also. Just as a reminder to you that even Joseph Dioguardi himself is a republican so do not get happy that we have no friends in the side of republicans. Also Bob Dole, one of the senior leaders of the Republican party is one of our greatest helpers.
But lets look how you have your friends worldwide. France was with you, but not is in our side. Same thing with England, Italy and even Greece is not in your side anymore. Oh i forgot, you have some african and arab countries in your side and Slovakia. Russia says that both sides Prishtina and Belgrade have to agree in order for Russia to accept it, so therefore if we were to stay under Serbia and we wouldnt like it, then Russia would be in our side since it says that both sides have to agree. But anyway, who would ask an old Russia after all. Even you the serbs are trying to leave Russia and join the EU, so how would you expect Russia to help you when in fact you are trying to leave it and head towards EU.Come on lets get to reality you stayed enough dreaming my dear neighbor.
You asked me what i have to say based on western journalists since you quoted an out of date newspaper of Russia but I suggest to you to see what Nenad Canak had to say about Kostunica and his presenation at the UN SC, but anyway, every single western newspaper talks the reality, which is KOSOVA WILL BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.
Anyway, I do not argue with you because i have to or i want to but just for fun, since you are still living in the world of myths, so i find it funny arguing with a person who lives in the world of myths.
But still i would suggest to you to get back to reality because i feel sorry for you.
MARK, do not make urself happy about the EU splittage. This is an absolute propaganda because EU is not split at all but overwhelmengly is in favor of Independence while some countries who were divided themsleves like Slovakia are against it but at the end of the day who would really care what Slovakia has to say? haha. Your supporters make me laugh when they try to raise their voice that is not even heard in their own little countries.
I hope you a very nice day and wish you less myths in your lives.

The “negotiations” in Wienna were never truly negotiations to start with.
In any (voluntary) negotiations both involved and interested parties are aiming to gain something and are willing to let something go in return.
In Wienna:
- The mediator ( Mr. Ahtisari) was muscling the Serbian negotiation team into submission. Kosovo Albanians were mere décor.
- Serbia had to choose between lose or lose. Stated principles (and endorsed by all USA protégés) were: no withdrawal from the negotiation process, no separation of Northern Kosovo, no Kosovo in Serbia and a predetermined due date for defining and presenting the Final Status Proposal to the UN SC regardless of the progress or outcome.
- Kosovo Albanians had to choose between win or win: either they gain a second state on Balkans .. or … they gain a second state on Balkans.
- Serbia could not even refuse to continue giving the legitimacy to this “process” as it was frantically echoed by every US/EU emissary as likely to be viewed as an “…act of non-cooperation…” ?!
-

Therefore, the entire “Wienna charade” never was nor it was meant to be a negotiation.
What is a logical reaction of any State if given the following choice: in return for 15% of your territory your citizens remaining on that territory will be given right to live without being attacked every day, to speak and to go to school? (what is , in essence, on the table once you take out all the bits and frills)

Any takers?

Princip, following comes also from Kommersant, you probably know where to find it (article translated on B92):
According to Kommersant, this propaganda campaign (they are talking about srbian politicians) is deliberately circumventing the reality, which is that in essence Kosovo has long been lost to Serbia:

“The issue now is not how to keep it under Belgrade's authority, but how to find a solution to will avoid destabilization and that will allow both the international community and Serbia to save face.”

As you can read the russians already have given the hope (if they ever had hope) that Kosovo will stay part of Srbia. The only question that remains is - What does Russia really wants in return for support for Kosovo's independence? Before the start of the summer, there will be another recognised country on the world map - Kosova. That's just enough time for you to accept this fact(if you already didn't).

For starters as an American I have been employed in Kosovo for the past two years. I am fully aware of both cultures and their stories as to what led up to the negotiations. I am still curious as to the personal gains sought out by the USA in supporting Kosovo independence and even involving ourselves in the war of 1999. The US does NOT get involved unless there is something in it for them.
It is the opinion of myself and several other Americans that not only the USA but the International community in general has no right in negotiating over a territory that does not belong to them nor the K. Albanians. If I studied my readings correctly Kosovo has been the territory of the Serbs since the early 13th century. There are still several Monasteries throughout Kosovo dating back to the 13th century. Yes according to demographics the majority are Albanians. But it is no secret that since 1999 the albanian population in Kosovo has at the minimum doubled. Situation taken advantage of? So too in Texas and California the majority will very soon be Mexican. If they want to be independent countries will the International community grant them their request?
I agree that KFOR should remain in Kosovo for a period of time. I agree that resolution 1244 should be implemented. I believe that Kosovo is the history and the heart of Serbia according to history books. I believe that just as I am of German descent I was born in the USA so that makes me AMERICAN, so too with all those that were born in Kosovo are in fact Serbian.
It is our moral obligation as an International community to protect those in need but it is without a doubt injust and immoral to erase a countries history, oocupy their land and then make the decision to give that land to another race without the consent of the true occupier. Am I the only one seeing the logic in this situation. Both sides are guilty for the past, that is no seceret. The Serbs have paid the price for their crimes at an international level (72 day bombing campaign). I will use this analogy for the simple minded (politicians etc.)"If you stir up a bees nest, you are bound to get stung." I use this for immigrants to US and any other country. When you CHOOSE to leave your country of birth and migrate to another country, do not impose your religious beliefs nor your culture nor attempt to claim their land as you own... You are "bound to get stung."

Princip,

I am disgusted when you call me "Serbian of Albanian descent"

You know? If Albanians had a funny bone they'd play the Quebec way: create a federation and blackmail the federal government with secesson referendums in exchange for billions of euros in 'equalization' payments.

C'mon Serbs! Not only are you not Canada, but also you cannot afford Kosovo. Let it go.

Ahmet Isufi,

"but beleive me when time comes to vote on Ahtisari's package you will see the YEYS "

- if that was the case why the reason for delay??? Surely if the resolution could be passed then it would have been done yesterday!!!

The US and the UK have pushed through a proposal that is "futile & counterproductive" they can try again but what will change in the meantime? Do you really think that South Africa, Ghana, Congo, Peru, Indonesia as smaller nations in the scale of influence would be happy to forge through a resolution that legalises the amputation of a nation because one of it's ethnic groups become a majority in one province? This would be state suicide for any of these small nations! Slovakia and Italy have not expressed any support and are in all instances inclined to abstain in future - Slovakia has legislated in it's own parliment that there should be no Independence. Beyond which both China & Russia have made their stance clear.

You might be right in testing the water but guess what it was too hot to pass - now is the time for the proposal to be diluted with some cold reality so that it can pass - that cold reality is a compromise solution based on Serbia's terrirorial Integrity !!!

Also can you tell me where in the world does negotiation and mediation mean we will not even consider any other alternatives beyond the one we have already determined must be the case? - I think more then anything else will have been a big Question mark over Ahtisaari's credibility amongst any wavering voters - big big mistake by the so called "mediator". Russia does not need to shoot the plan to bits but if the US & Uk continue with the folly I think they will start pulling it apart completly.

Princip, a very interesting article that contains far more information than any American source will report on this matter. In fact, I found it almost impossible to find any major news outlet in the States yesterday that actually devoted an article to this, rather than putting it in the news ticker.

The article clearly demonstrates two increasingly important points.

1. Without the UN's blessing from a resolution, the status of Kosovo will not be embraced by the international community - especially Europe. Each state may individually support independence, but without a UN resolution, these governments will not risk going against international arbitration. You've got to hand it to Europe for praying at the altar of bureaucratic procedure. Therefore it seems abundantly obvious that if a resolution is to be passed, and by passed I mean not vetoed by Russia or China, both the language and the substance of the resolution will have to be changed to accomodate more interests for Belgrade. Passing a resolution recognizing the sovereignty of a new country should not be taken lightly and cannot simply be crammed through by one or two nations. In the end, Pristins will have to make far more concessions in order to gain its independence (which we should still not rule out, nor delay for years as some have suggested).

2. The crisis in Kosovo is no longer in the hands of Serbs and Albanians - if it ever really was. This is shaping up to be a battle between the US and UK on one side and Russia and China on the other. All these states have their interests in supporting or denying independence to Kosovo and it will be interesting to see the ongoing negotiating among these states for a more unified position in the next few weeks and months.

Conrad,
Thank you. Anyone who really does their homework and researches Kosovo and what it's all about, like you have done, will come to the same conclusions. Unfortunately, journalists are lazy and never wanted the facts to get in the way of a great story, and politicians are all about which group donates the most to their campaigns and couldn't care less about truth or justice. Things are slowly changing however, and Kosovo will never be independent because of smart people like you.

“Having demonstrated that Ahtisaari’s plan is an illegal and illegitimate proposal aimed at seizing 15% of Serbia’s territory, which directly breaches the UN Charter”

Well why is there 90% Albanians in that territory. Did the Albanian suddenly on a Sunday morning pop out of nowhere from the rich soils of Kosovo like mushrooms? Or the fact of the matter is Albanians were there before the Serb occupation. This guy speeches cause so much stir yet he’s proving very popular back in Serbia.

Kustunica is doing no good to neither side, his argument hold no realistic grounds and are very anti Albanian, which fuels the situation in Kosovo. No matter what the future holds for Kosovo politically, the relation between Albanians and Serbs has to improve in order for Kosovo situation to become stable.

Re: Link suggested by Princip, UK, Thursday, 5 April, 2007, 10:00

It is my understanding that Komerssant is a Russian newspaper. In case someone wants to really hear from the source go to the United Nation's newroom. Click on the webcasts and you will have a chance to listen to statements and Q&A sessions with Ahtissari, Churkin, Wolf, Parry, and Sejdiu. It's quite clear that Kosovo is centerpiece and centerfold, and nobody has shelved it as a Russian journalist writes. Remember, SC's meeting was behind closed doors. The only comments were made after the meeting. Go to the website, listen, and judge for yourselves.
Stan

Conrad is saying the number of Albanian more than doubled in Kosovo since 1999. He does not know what he is talking about. Now I will present the facts:

Official Yugoslav statistical results: 82 % (est) Albanians in 1991.

UNMIK 2001: 88 % (est)

The number after the war increased with 6 % due to several reasons e.g. Albanian from Belgrade and Preshevo valley decided to move to Kosovo and some Serbs left Kosovo when NATO entered Kosovo.

My opinion is that Serbian people has a lot to work on changing their perception of themselves and the perception of how the World think of them.
Turning to independence or autonomy topic, I had asked this question before
What do you think about this scenario?
If in case, that UNSC does not support the independence of Kosovo and gives the Serb the right to keep Kosovo then what?
I just want to ask Serbian and Albanian commentators to give me a detailed answer of what they think is the solution who is going to do what and how (to Serbians) and what will be the reaction (to Albanians)? Do they think (their politicians) are going to go themselves deal directly with Albanians or they are going to govern them from Beograd? and how?
Seriously I just want to know and just a simple answer that they have the autonomy
Please reply to my request including Princip (not copy and paste Princip).

*Gunar Knob...
What kind of negotiaton are you talking about...In civil world there is no room for negotiation for human rights, serbs had to think that the truth will prevail,,,u (serbs)should be very thankful to Mr. Ahtisaris solution, I know the serbs who lives out of Kosova, they don´t give a damn thing about serbs who live in Kosova, but the politicians like Kustunica, Seselj and ma*Gunar Knob...
What kind of negotiaton are you talking about...In civil world there is no room for negotiation for human rights, serbs had to think before they start the ethnic clansing on albanians. Of course, truth will always prevail! U(serbs) should be very thankful to Mr. Ahtisaris solution, I know the serbs who lives out of Kosova, they don´t give a damn thing about serbs who live in Kosova, but the politicians like Kustunica, Seselj and many many more, they use them like Marionets for their own purposes, and edvantualy those become Marionets for real...
ny many more, they us them like Marionets for their own purposes

Hi Princip,

I just want to shed some light reagrding some of the comments I've read. First of all, if Serbia hasn't lost Kosovo to the Turks, I don't believe it's about to do so to the most impoverished country in Europe (Albania). If the Albanians feel that Kosovo is rightfully theirs, then why not fight for it. Why are they hanging on to the coattails of the West? I've heard so much hipe that if the Muslims are not given Kosovo, then all hell is going to break loose. What do these people believe the Serbs are going to do?, keil over and go to sleep? I believe that the Serbs learnt their lesson from the prior war and are re-equiped and ready to go into action, only after, they've exhausted every political alternative there is.

The Report sent to the UNSC by Mr Ahtisaari 26 March 2007 lacks one important answer: whether his suggestions correspond to the UN Charter or not. By avoiding a logical answer ("no, it does not correspond")he intentionally missed this statement in the Report.