Kosovo's future on UN agenda tomorrow

Thank goodness that some logic is finally rearing its head. The only solution is to have an internationally supervised (initially) autonomous province; as currently stands but with new guidelines for autonomy introduced and guaranteed.
The 200,000 Serbian refugees from the province can then return home and Kosovo can finally head, along with the rest of Serbia, towards regeneration and integration with the rest of Europe.

Kate; I have no idea how much you know about the event in Kosovo/a, but justice is prevailing and Serbia would be set free of Kosovo/a once and for all. I am glad Serbia is finally gaining its Independence. Look forward to prosperous Serbia in EU, but also I like to see Kosovo/a in EU in short near future.

By the way, I meant initially supervised not autonomous.

M.Miller - I know plenty thanks. Enough to not just issue provocative nationalistic comments. I am in favour of a legal settlement which provides far more autonomy than the vast majority of States would accept for their provinces.
Overall I am in favour of peace and respect of international law.

The US & UK were banking upon a unified EU position to stop a wedge from Russia but clearly the talks on Friday & Saturday only created even more disunity and it is clear that both Slovakia & Italy are now unlikely to affirm the plan A-htisaari. See the following article "Europe divided over Kosovo plan"
http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/europe-divided-kosovo-plan/article-162922

For those who seem to think Independence could be forced through a violent ILLEGAL action of unilateral declaration please recall your biggest supporters words only a few weeks ago Holbrooke said "Albanians will declare independence unilaterally. Some countries, including the United States and many Muslim states, would probably recognize"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031200972.html

Please note the PROBABLY - no certainty - given that 1244 states Serbia's territorial integrity and unless the US wish to illuminate it's disregard to territorial integrity then I guess we can fully appreciate the PROBABILITY of any ILLEGAL action being being recognised as anything other then ILLEGAL and Zero probability!!! The Russians know that the US & Uk are the ones who will be tested and not them - it is the US & UK who created this mess and they have to now face the music and deal with it in the right way - within international law!

Looking forward to tomorrow and it sure looks like there will be no acceptance of plan A-htisaari in the format given. How much time is required before the penny drops - wake up it is APRIL 2007!!!

Kate, after tomorrow we will see a new emphasis on ensuring 1244 is implemented fully before any movement on status. The train service clearly never existed beyond the thoughts of some delusional figments of imaginary scenario's in some technocratic minds - now is the time for reality and real talks and negotiations!!!

Overall I am in favour of peace and respect of international law.
(kate, Monday, 2 April, 2007, 12:01)
Kate where were you in 1997 - 1999 during the war. who was asking for peace in 1999 it's easy for you to say kosovo will have the autonomy but not for us, erase this from your head kate

Kate,
remember that 1974 Yugoslav constituition provided the right to secede for Vojvodina and Kosmet.
We do not have to recall International Law to recognize the Kosovo independence.
By the way, if we rely on the International Law principle (a people is independent on a given land when it has the control of the territory and someone recognize that situation), we should affirm the Kosovo independence when the declaration of independence by the Kosovar Parliament would occur.

Fitim,

we all know where the US's CIA and Germany's BND were;
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AlbanianTerrorism/KLA.html

Or better still read about the BBC documentary which substantiates US-KLA collusion in provoking war with Serbia back in March 2000 -
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/koso-m16.shtml

princip you are right! i also think bremen was the turning point and that indiependence or artisaaris protectorate is off the table.
serbia´s only problem is the deadline for forming a new government, because the list for tsar vladi on his summer visit to belgrade about what is possible and what isn´t in the case of south-serbia would have much more patriotic flavour if vojo would write it alone.

the usa can´t acknowledge kosovo alone, because of it´s love for failed&artificial states(albania, bosnia, georgia) and much simplier: because of the lack of money!bush calculated with usd 280 mio for kosovo in 2008, the rest of eur 2 billion was on eu-shoulders! while our self-proclaimed superpower is losing wars&money in other dimensions. i was kinda loughing when they couln´t repay what they have stolen from n-korea in time. was it peanuts like usd 25 mio.???

even one of the fiercest pro-albanian talibs has his "wait-a-minute&think-about-it-twice-moment": http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17438

abu timmy in whole new intellectual areas!

For those who want to know more on the reality of events look back at the BBC archives at "Behind the Kosovo crisis" website of March 2000. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/674056.stm

There is even a forum of questions put to Allan little at the time (back in 2000) and I find the 1st question and answer all the more pertinant given tomorrows UN SC discussions that will not affirm plan A-htisarri but will lead to new & real negotiations.

" Andrei Popovici, USA: What do you think the exit strategy will be for Nato letting Kosovo join Albania or giving it back to the Serbs with some kind of autonomy?

Allan Little: Nato's already committed to this and its committed by dint of the peace agreement, which went through the UN security council. Nato is committed and all the member governments agree to the idea that Kosovo is an integral part of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and I don't think there's much wiggle room on that.

However ultimately final status talks according to the USA will have to wait until a post-Milosevic Serbia. So I think that is on indefinite hold. You can see from other examples around the world, for example Cyprus, that those things can last years, even decades before they are finally resolved. I think this is one of those examples that's not going to be fixed in a hurry.

I think it's going to be very difficult for any country to start arguing that Kosovo should have independence, because I can't imagine any circumstances in which that will go through the UN Security Council. The Russians will certainly veto it, the Chinese would certainly veto it, and so far no Western country has even thought about the possibility of promoting Kosovan independence. Even those countries that fought most vigorously against Milosevic in the Nato alliance are committed to the idea that Kosovo is part of Serbia, part of Yugoslavia. "

- can't really say anything other then Allan Little's words are prophetic if you happen to be a dilusional technocrat but for those who really know the score all these events since 99 to & including tomorrow are easily predicted.

serbia has every right to defend its best interest, so does kosova and its people. its in the EU best interest to sort this out and unified, the less powerfull states might not like it coz of there own personal interest but as a whole they r unified. its not about today or the past its about tomorrow and the future. as i said previously USA has has asked for russia's wish list to move forward, what does russia want and need for an acceptance, its that simple. all actions are moving in the independace direction, and the formation of a new country rightly deserved, it might be hard to accept, but thats reality. dont look for the devil coz you might find him, doesnt mean its there.
roft kosova

Fitim, massimo and others. First let me ecpress that I am not for or against either Serbs or Albanians. And yes, M Miller, I know a LOT about Kososvo. I have been there many times in my profession as a high ranking official.
Anyway, those who hope for a quick solution on the Kosovo issue will be extremely disappointed. First of all, it not that simple as many seems to believe. Its frankly impossible, read it again, impossible that Kosovo/a will gain independence without the approval of Serbia witch is the legal "owner" of Kosovo according to all international law. Secondly, IF Kosovo would gain independence( breaking all laws that the world has set up by themself), it will be extremly hard for Kosovo to survive if their neighbour is Serbia. Maybe some say no to this and have other thoughts, but reality bites ! Imagine to have your neighbour that hates you, block you, interfer with you. Forever ! No way ! I dont believe for a second that this will be solved in the next 10-20 years. Honestly !

to northern europe, the decision is not for you to make weather you understand how it will work or not. serbia was also the leagaly resposable for its citizens.
money dear friend money has no race colour creed. they have been doing business as we speek since before the war and all the way thru and now, weather it be mafia connections of both serbia and kosovo or some form of government initiative. if it couldnt work or wouldnt work people wouldnt invest the time and energy and dollaries, its easier to just give it autonomy, THE POINT IS ITS NOT,

sunny,

Russia has already said it's wish list is to apply the precedent to more deserving regions such as Abkahsia, Pridnestrovie(trans dniester), South Ossetia - and the possibility of other near home issues! The US said No - nowing that they would get into a total trap as Russia would get the green light but China would immediatly veto! Good luck but it certainly looks like the US have little to offer and Russia has all to gain by a veto since what happens then - do the US recognise a ILLEGAL declaration? If so Serbia will always retain sovreignity since 1244 stands and time can wait but also Russia can act in just the same manner and recognise all that it wishes!

Someone commented on Putin being a ood chess master and it certainly looks very promising - I think the Serbian leadership particularly Kostunica have been only too aware that Russia acts in it's own interest and have been only too certain that Serbia's interest is best served too!

3rd of April will come and go with no new resolution so what do you do then?

Northern Europe,
I simply disagree on the view that you expressed about the fact that Serbia owns Kosovo (it means that Serbia owns the people of Kosovo) by international law.
I think that if Serbia will boycott Kosovo, then the result would be that Serbia would be boycotted by the Europen Union.
By isolating Kosovo, Serbia would become a bantustan state as the ones created by the old South African regime, a country self "apartheided" from the rest of the world since it will be rounded by the European Union.
I hope for Serbia that Serbian government will never choose the way you imagine.

Kosovo is going to become supervised Independent and Russia will back of like always! The USA is the one with the boll in the hand, the UN says what the States demends, tought you ppl knew that. Hope we find this in a peaceful manner balkan ppl!

Northern Europe:

Who do you think you are fooling? Your claim that you are a "high ranking official" is ludicrous and a bit pathetic.

First, it is clear that you "copy and past" others ideas.If you had any real substance you would not resort to childish attempts to mislead.This clearly indicates you have no original thoughts whatsoever!

Secondly, your writing style is at the junior high school level and your spelling is atrocious. The least you could is make use of the SPELL CHECK function.

Please don't waste our time with your immature antics.

btw, it is Serbia that is surrounded by neighboring countries that hate it.

I am glad that for once USA, German, and English political and economic muscle will fail for once. The West has always used it to interfered with soverign nations especially with the Middle-East. All Muslims should support Serbia because the same situation has happened throughout the Middle East and we should not support something we ourselves resent.

Hey 'Northern Europe",

Israel

Enough said.

Everyone's coming to this meeting with blinders on. Everyone thinks their own views will be the ones adopted, and everyone thinks the opposing side is delusional. This meeting will either be the culmination of an 8 year long Dialogue of the Deaf, or will be the first attempts at hashing out some compromise between the two diametrically opposed sides in order to get a resolution passed. The UN is notorious for taking the fangs of out of issues so as to get all members to agree. If anyone has any doubts, remember the watered down resolutions on Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.

For both Serbian's and Kosovar's is difficult not to be lenient on this matter. However in order to progress from the current situation (which i am sure we will) we need to be more objective and realistic form both sides.

One thing is clear that the current 'status quo' is unattainable, should this continue then it is likely that there will be more unrest (undesirable neither for Kosovar's, Serbian's or the international community). I am sure on saying this as none of us wants another war? No more innocent people to die.

How do we satisfy both sides? Independence much awaited from the Kosovar's and preferred option predominantly form the international community or some form of autonomy as Serbian's and few of the international community suggest. What will bring the stability in the region is the main focus here?
Lets assume that some form of autonomy will be granted to Kosova within Serbia! Will the 2 million Kosovar/Albanians be satisfied and integrate into the Serbian so called 'democratic' institutions with Kostunica driving political force in Serbia? The realistic answer is NO. Would Serbia want Kosova when it will be an absolute impossible to integrate 2 million Kosovar/Albanian int its institutions.

Second option supervised independence for Kosova, will the Serbians both in Kosova and Serbia agree or be satisfied with this option. Again realistic answer is NO.

How do we move forward from this wishes circle?!

Realistic and tenable option is:
Supervised independence with the view to integrating into Europe together as two countries. Share the world marked economy, develop positive working relationship and provide stability and better life options for the inhabitants of both countries.

Some of you may think i am 'naive', but am afraid this is the only way to move forward.
Unless of course you come up with the realistic plan that will satisfy both sides on which i sure we all wold like to hear that!

Geez, I seriously have no idea whether some of the participants in this forum are living on the face of this Earth.

The world's major powers: US, UK, Germany, France, and Italy are CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY backing independence...and here you have the likes of some ppl like 'Kate' who are STILL engaged in a debate of how much 'autonomy' Serbia should give to Kosovo.

I say to her and others: the Ahtisaari discussions were never about the status of Kosovo; such status was resolved in 1999 (read: factual independence). The Ahtisaari discussions have been about how to design an independent Kosovo, while giving the minority Serbs the guarantees and the political space to reintrgrate themselves in an independent Kosovo.

Fine, don't even agree with me. But, remember, a year from now -- at the most -- you'll need passports to pass into Kosovo. As I've said elsewhere, we won't accept Serbia's constitution as proof of travel. Passport, please!

princip, thing really big not the small.... ie. imf, missile defence shield joing the big boys on the world stage. respect and face how much is that worth, recognition as a financial and super power again??????

I'd like to see Albanian border guards north of the Ibar!

So travel from Kosovo to Serbia and Serbia to Kosovo north of the Ibar will be free and unfettered.

Kosovo Serbs are citizens of Serbia and no body in those Serb areas will ask for passports.

To Amir,

All the Islamic states can support Serbia. Kosovo doesn't need any of them. As Albania has almost gotten rid of islamism with exception of few believers left close to the Kosovo border, Kosovo will surely in the next ten years abandone that fanatic faith and will overwhelmingly embrace the western ideals.

princip, thing really big not the small.... ie. imf, missile defence shield joing the big boys on the world stage. respect and face how much is that worth, recognition as a financial and super power again??????
(sunny, Monday, 2 April, 2007, 17:49)

- sunny thinking big is exactlty what Russia is doing and all those things you stae are small fry - the big fry is the International recognition of all near home matters that Russia sees strategic - and dampen NATO - I guess you won't see the veto coming? the US have no bargaining chip since using them all on Iraq and Afghanistan - oh by the way another mess the US created by meddling in then the Soviet sphere!!! Russia & China's best interest is served in vetoing this and showing the world they are just as much in control as the US!!!

in my opinion, kosovo will only become independent if it is included as part of a deal between the great powers: us, russia, china, eu, and the arab world.

for instance, a grand treaty could be created granting kosovo independence, giving abkhazia and s. ossetia to russia, creating a viable palestinian state, invalidating taiwan's status, etc.

bottom line: everyone gets something and whoever lost anything could be compensated in the backend by an ally (serbia could get comp. from russia and china, while georgia will get comp. from the u.s.).

the world has become multipolar due to the u.s.'s incompetance post-cold war. in a multipolar world, unilateral geopolotical maneuverings are impossible.

Kosovo needs to be partitioned.
Serbs have a right to choose to live in thier rightful homeland.. What Serb would pledge allegiance to an Albanian flag and sing an Albanian anthem...But a partition would signal an unraveling in Bosnia as well.
Lesson learned, don't allow "international troops" ie, the "West" to enter your country to impose law and order..

my prediction as always: de facto partition

"giving the minority Serbs the guarantees and the political space to
reintrgrate themselves in an independent Kosovo."

So since there has been no guarantee of safety and no reintegration or return of the minority Serbs into Kosovo, by your definition,
Atisaari's discussions have failed and should not proceed.

princip, its irrelevant wether a veto occurs or not, serbia is just a mechanisim for russia to flex its muscle and make a stand for itslef for right or wrong is beside the point, what concessions they (us,uk, france) offer is also another and there will b, it just depends on what do the russians want. thats all superficial that you mention. what r the repocutions if kosova proclaimed independance???? im not a lawyer nor understand it, but just as u and i know the including 1244 is ambiguis at best and can b interpreted either way (that how they got it thru UNSC) or the west would not have invested there time and money. that you must admit. independance is on the horizon. how the deal gets done is the question, if thats important to u?? kalb have already compromised. if it doesnt pass the security council and kosova proclaims independance then the deal m atasari put forth is null and void. except for nato as security, the benifits the serb had got would evaporate, churchs will b protected but the municipalities wont be granted like it had and all the rights serbs will have to work hard to negotiate n settle, which the kalb will coz thats the way they r

Thank goodness that some logic is finally rearing its head. The only solution is to have an internationally supervised (initially) autonomous province; as currently stands but with new guidelines for autonomy introduced and guaranteed.
The 200,000 Serbian refugees from the province can then return home and Kosovo can finally head, along with the rest of Serbia, towards regeneration and integration with the rest of Europe.

Kate; I have no idea how much you know about the event in Kosovo/a, but justice is prevailing and Serbia would be set free of Kosovo/a once and for all. I am glad Serbia is finally gaining its Independence. Look forward to prosperous Serbia in EU, but also I like to see Kosovo/a in EU in short near future.

By the way, I meant initially supervised not autonomous.

M.Miller - I know plenty thanks. Enough to not just issue provocative nationalistic comments. I am in favour of a legal settlement which provides far more autonomy than the vast majority of States would accept for their provinces.
Overall I am in favour of peace and respect of international law.

The US & UK were banking upon a unified EU position to stop a wedge from Russia but clearly the talks on Friday & Saturday only created even more disunity and it is clear that both Slovakia & Italy are now unlikely to affirm the plan A-htisaari. See the following article "Europe divided over Kosovo plan"
http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/europe-divided-kosovo-plan/article-162922

For those who seem to think Independence could be forced through a violent ILLEGAL action of unilateral declaration please recall your biggest supporters words only a few weeks ago Holbrooke said "Albanians will declare independence unilaterally. Some countries, including the United States and many Muslim states, would probably recognize"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031200972.html

Please note the PROBABLY - no certainty - given that 1244 states Serbia's territorial integrity and unless the US wish to illuminate it's disregard to territorial integrity then I guess we can fully appreciate the PROBABILITY of any ILLEGAL action being being recognised as anything other then ILLEGAL and Zero probability!!! The Russians know that the US & Uk are the ones who will be tested and not them - it is the US & UK who created this mess and they have to now face the music and deal with it in the right way - within international law!

Looking forward to tomorrow and it sure looks like there will be no acceptance of plan A-htisaari in the format given. How much time is required before the penny drops - wake up it is APRIL 2007!!!

Kate, after tomorrow we will see a new emphasis on ensuring 1244 is implemented fully before any movement on status. The train service clearly never existed beyond the thoughts of some delusional figments of imaginary scenario's in some technocratic minds - now is the time for reality and real talks and negotiations!!!

Overall I am in favour of peace and respect of international law.
(kate, Monday, 2 April, 2007, 12:01)
Kate where were you in 1997 - 1999 during the war. who was asking for peace in 1999 it's easy for you to say kosovo will have the autonomy but not for us, erase this from your head kate

Kate,
remember that 1974 Yugoslav constituition provided the right to secede for Vojvodina and Kosmet.
We do not have to recall International Law to recognize the Kosovo independence.
By the way, if we rely on the International Law principle (a people is independent on a given land when it has the control of the territory and someone recognize that situation), we should affirm the Kosovo independence when the declaration of independence by the Kosovar Parliament would occur.

Fitim,

we all know where the US's CIA and Germany's BND were;
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AlbanianTerrorism/KLA.html

Or better still read about the BBC documentary which substantiates US-KLA collusion in provoking war with Serbia back in March 2000 -
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/koso-m16.shtml

princip you are right! i also think bremen was the turning point and that indiependence or artisaaris protectorate is off the table.
serbia´s only problem is the deadline for forming a new government, because the list for tsar vladi on his summer visit to belgrade about what is possible and what isn´t in the case of south-serbia would have much more patriotic flavour if vojo would write it alone.

the usa can´t acknowledge kosovo alone, because of it´s love for failed&artificial states(albania, bosnia, georgia) and much simplier: because of the lack of money!bush calculated with usd 280 mio for kosovo in 2008, the rest of eur 2 billion was on eu-shoulders! while our self-proclaimed superpower is losing wars&money in other dimensions. i was kinda loughing when they couln´t repay what they have stolen from n-korea in time. was it peanuts like usd 25 mio.???

even one of the fiercest pro-albanian talibs has his "wait-a-minute&think-about-it-twice-moment": http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17438

abu timmy in whole new intellectual areas!

For those who want to know more on the reality of events look back at the BBC archives at "Behind the Kosovo crisis" website of March 2000. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/674056.stm

There is even a forum of questions put to Allan little at the time (back in 2000) and I find the 1st question and answer all the more pertinant given tomorrows UN SC discussions that will not affirm plan A-htisarri but will lead to new & real negotiations.

" Andrei Popovici, USA: What do you think the exit strategy will be for Nato letting Kosovo join Albania or giving it back to the Serbs with some kind of autonomy?

Allan Little: Nato's already committed to this and its committed by dint of the peace agreement, which went through the UN security council. Nato is committed and all the member governments agree to the idea that Kosovo is an integral part of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and I don't think there's much wiggle room on that.

However ultimately final status talks according to the USA will have to wait until a post-Milosevic Serbia. So I think that is on indefinite hold. You can see from other examples around the world, for example Cyprus, that those things can last years, even decades before they are finally resolved. I think this is one of those examples that's not going to be fixed in a hurry.

I think it's going to be very difficult for any country to start arguing that Kosovo should have independence, because I can't imagine any circumstances in which that will go through the UN Security Council. The Russians will certainly veto it, the Chinese would certainly veto it, and so far no Western country has even thought about the possibility of promoting Kosovan independence. Even those countries that fought most vigorously against Milosevic in the Nato alliance are committed to the idea that Kosovo is part of Serbia, part of Yugoslavia. "

- can't really say anything other then Allan Little's words are prophetic if you happen to be a dilusional technocrat but for those who really know the score all these events since 99 to & including tomorrow are easily predicted.

serbia has every right to defend its best interest, so does kosova and its people. its in the EU best interest to sort this out and unified, the less powerfull states might not like it coz of there own personal interest but as a whole they r unified. its not about today or the past its about tomorrow and the future. as i said previously USA has has asked for russia's wish list to move forward, what does russia want and need for an acceptance, its that simple. all actions are moving in the independace direction, and the formation of a new country rightly deserved, it might be hard to accept, but thats reality. dont look for the devil coz you might find him, doesnt mean its there.
roft kosova

Fitim, massimo and others. First let me ecpress that I am not for or against either Serbs or Albanians. And yes, M Miller, I know a LOT about Kososvo. I have been there many times in my profession as a high ranking official.
Anyway, those who hope for a quick solution on the Kosovo issue will be extremely disappointed. First of all, it not that simple as many seems to believe. Its frankly impossible, read it again, impossible that Kosovo/a will gain independence without the approval of Serbia witch is the legal "owner" of Kosovo according to all international law. Secondly, IF Kosovo would gain independence( breaking all laws that the world has set up by themself), it will be extremly hard for Kosovo to survive if their neighbour is Serbia. Maybe some say no to this and have other thoughts, but reality bites ! Imagine to have your neighbour that hates you, block you, interfer with you. Forever ! No way ! I dont believe for a second that this will be solved in the next 10-20 years. Honestly !

to northern europe, the decision is not for you to make weather you understand how it will work or not. serbia was also the leagaly resposable for its citizens.
money dear friend money has no race colour creed. they have been doing business as we speek since before the war and all the way thru and now, weather it be mafia connections of both serbia and kosovo or some form of government initiative. if it couldnt work or wouldnt work people wouldnt invest the time and energy and dollaries, its easier to just give it autonomy, THE POINT IS ITS NOT,

sunny,

Russia has already said it's wish list is to apply the precedent to more deserving regions such as Abkahsia, Pridnestrovie(trans dniester), South Ossetia - and the possibility of other near home issues! The US said No - nowing that they would get into a total trap as Russia would get the green light but China would immediatly veto! Good luck but it certainly looks like the US have little to offer and Russia has all to gain by a veto since what happens then - do the US recognise a ILLEGAL declaration? If so Serbia will always retain sovreignity since 1244 stands and time can wait but also Russia can act in just the same manner and recognise all that it wishes!

Someone commented on Putin being a ood chess master and it certainly looks very promising - I think the Serbian leadership particularly Kostunica have been only too aware that Russia acts in it's own interest and have been only too certain that Serbia's interest is best served too!

3rd of April will come and go with no new resolution so what do you do then?

Northern Europe,
I simply disagree on the view that you expressed about the fact that Serbia owns Kosovo (it means that Serbia owns the people of Kosovo) by international law.
I think that if Serbia will boycott Kosovo, then the result would be that Serbia would be boycotted by the Europen Union.
By isolating Kosovo, Serbia would become a bantustan state as the ones created by the old South African regime, a country self "apartheided" from the rest of the world since it will be rounded by the European Union.
I hope for Serbia that Serbian government will never choose the way you imagine.

Kosovo is going to become supervised Independent and Russia will back of like always! The USA is the one with the boll in the hand, the UN says what the States demends, tought you ppl knew that. Hope we find this in a peaceful manner balkan ppl!

Northern Europe:

Who do you think you are fooling? Your claim that you are a "high ranking official" is ludicrous and a bit pathetic.

First, it is clear that you "copy and past" others ideas.If you had any real substance you would not resort to childish attempts to mislead.This clearly indicates you have no original thoughts whatsoever!

Secondly, your writing style is at the junior high school level and your spelling is atrocious. The least you could is make use of the SPELL CHECK function.

Please don't waste our time with your immature antics.

btw, it is Serbia that is surrounded by neighboring countries that hate it.

I am glad that for once USA, German, and English political and economic muscle will fail for once. The West has always used it to interfered with soverign nations especially with the Middle-East. All Muslims should support Serbia because the same situation has happened throughout the Middle East and we should not support something we ourselves resent.

Hey 'Northern Europe",

Israel

Enough said.

Everyone's coming to this meeting with blinders on. Everyone thinks their own views will be the ones adopted, and everyone thinks the opposing side is delusional. This meeting will either be the culmination of an 8 year long Dialogue of the Deaf, or will be the first attempts at hashing out some compromise between the two diametrically opposed sides in order to get a resolution passed. The UN is notorious for taking the fangs of out of issues so as to get all members to agree. If anyone has any doubts, remember the watered down resolutions on Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.

For both Serbian's and Kosovar's is difficult not to be lenient on this matter. However in order to progress from the current situation (which i am sure we will) we need to be more objective and realistic form both sides.

One thing is clear that the current 'status quo' is unattainable, should this continue then it is likely that there will be more unrest (undesirable neither for Kosovar's, Serbian's or the international community). I am sure on saying this as none of us wants another war? No more innocent people to die.

How do we satisfy both sides? Independence much awaited from the Kosovar's and preferred option predominantly form the international community or some form of autonomy as Serbian's and few of the international community suggest. What will bring the stability in the region is the main focus here?
Lets assume that some form of autonomy will be granted to Kosova within Serbia! Will the 2 million Kosovar/Albanians be satisfied and integrate into the Serbian so called 'democratic' institutions with Kostunica driving political force in Serbia? The realistic answer is NO. Would Serbia want Kosova when it will be an absolute impossible to integrate 2 million Kosovar/Albanian int its institutions.

Second option supervised independence for Kosova, will the Serbians both in Kosova and Serbia agree or be satisfied with this option. Again realistic answer is NO.

How do we move forward from this wishes circle?!

Realistic and tenable option is:
Supervised independence with the view to integrating into Europe together as two countries. Share the world marked economy, develop positive working relationship and provide stability and better life options for the inhabitants of both countries.

Some of you may think i am 'naive', but am afraid this is the only way to move forward.
Unless of course you come up with the realistic plan that will satisfy both sides on which i sure we all wold like to hear that!

Geez, I seriously have no idea whether some of the participants in this forum are living on the face of this Earth.

The world's major powers: US, UK, Germany, France, and Italy are CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY backing independence...and here you have the likes of some ppl like 'Kate' who are STILL engaged in a debate of how much 'autonomy' Serbia should give to Kosovo.

I say to her and others: the Ahtisaari discussions were never about the status of Kosovo; such status was resolved in 1999 (read: factual independence). The Ahtisaari discussions have been about how to design an independent Kosovo, while giving the minority Serbs the guarantees and the political space to reintrgrate themselves in an independent Kosovo.

Fine, don't even agree with me. But, remember, a year from now -- at the most -- you'll need passports to pass into Kosovo. As I've said elsewhere, we won't accept Serbia's constitution as proof of travel. Passport, please!

princip, thing really big not the small.... ie. imf, missile defence shield joing the big boys on the world stage. respect and face how much is that worth, recognition as a financial and super power again??????

I'd like to see Albanian border guards north of the Ibar!

So travel from Kosovo to Serbia and Serbia to Kosovo north of the Ibar will be free and unfettered.

Kosovo Serbs are citizens of Serbia and no body in those Serb areas will ask for passports.

To Amir,

All the Islamic states can support Serbia. Kosovo doesn't need any of them. As Albania has almost gotten rid of islamism with exception of few believers left close to the Kosovo border, Kosovo will surely in the next ten years abandone that fanatic faith and will overwhelmingly embrace the western ideals.

princip, thing really big not the small.... ie. imf, missile defence shield joing the big boys on the world stage. respect and face how much is that worth, recognition as a financial and super power again??????
(sunny, Monday, 2 April, 2007, 17:49)

- sunny thinking big is exactlty what Russia is doing and all those things you stae are small fry - the big fry is the International recognition of all near home matters that Russia sees strategic - and dampen NATO - I guess you won't see the veto coming? the US have no bargaining chip since using them all on Iraq and Afghanistan - oh by the way another mess the US created by meddling in then the Soviet sphere!!! Russia & China's best interest is served in vetoing this and showing the world they are just as much in control as the US!!!

in my opinion, kosovo will only become independent if it is included as part of a deal between the great powers: us, russia, china, eu, and the arab world.

for instance, a grand treaty could be created granting kosovo independence, giving abkhazia and s. ossetia to russia, creating a viable palestinian state, invalidating taiwan's status, etc.

bottom line: everyone gets something and whoever lost anything could be compensated in the backend by an ally (serbia could get comp. from russia and china, while georgia will get comp. from the u.s.).

the world has become multipolar due to the u.s.'s incompetance post-cold war. in a multipolar world, unilateral geopolotical maneuverings are impossible.

Kosovo needs to be partitioned.
Serbs have a right to choose to live in thier rightful homeland.. What Serb would pledge allegiance to an Albanian flag and sing an Albanian anthem...But a partition would signal an unraveling in Bosnia as well.
Lesson learned, don't allow "international troops" ie, the "West" to enter your country to impose law and order..

my prediction as always: de facto partition

"giving the minority Serbs the guarantees and the political space to
reintrgrate themselves in an independent Kosovo."

So since there has been no guarantee of safety and no reintegration or return of the minority Serbs into Kosovo, by your definition,
Atisaari's discussions have failed and should not proceed.

princip, its irrelevant wether a veto occurs or not, serbia is just a mechanisim for russia to flex its muscle and make a stand for itslef for right or wrong is beside the point, what concessions they (us,uk, france) offer is also another and there will b, it just depends on what do the russians want. thats all superficial that you mention. what r the repocutions if kosova proclaimed independance???? im not a lawyer nor understand it, but just as u and i know the including 1244 is ambiguis at best and can b interpreted either way (that how they got it thru UNSC) or the west would not have invested there time and money. that you must admit. independance is on the horizon. how the deal gets done is the question, if thats important to u?? kalb have already compromised. if it doesnt pass the security council and kosova proclaims independance then the deal m atasari put forth is null and void. except for nato as security, the benifits the serb had got would evaporate, churchs will b protected but the municipalities wont be granted like it had and all the rights serbs will have to work hard to negotiate n settle, which the kalb will coz thats the way they r