Reactions to unveiling of Kosovo plan

Last unresolved issue?

Just like after Dayton 95', there were no more issues to resolve?

What about RS? and than and than...... as well as Serbs anger over KiM (if it does indeed gain independence)?

This man is simply spreading false fabricated lies to the rest of the world and Russia knows it.

Fabricated lies? That's redundant.

Equal rights...? explain that to the thousands of families who have lost loved ones before , during and afther the kosovo conflict started....The world can not be serious to believe the lies and wool that is being pulled over their eyes by these extremists....
The same rights can be granted, and a supervised integration back into serbia can also work, can it not. but it is the sole and only goal to strip serbia bit by bit of the rest of the land it owns...
PS..Albania didnt even exist when serbs lived there thousands of years ago..ITS A FACT

To BK
You are funny and naiv.
According to you only Russia knows the truth all the other countries are the idiots. You and your friends are reelly running out of intelligent arguments. BK you made my day.

Who cares what Russia knows? Russia will not use its veto, get a grip already! They already said that they cannot be more Serb than the Serbs themselves...and if the Serbs are in no position to do anything, then what does that translate to? It is so amusing to see how you Serbians are so enshrouded in your fairytales that you can't even tell night from day anymore.

I was so pleased last night when US and GB immediately supported the plan for the Independence of Kosova. It was last night at those moments that once again it was demonstrated who runs the show and in the end it is being run correctly. I am so excited about the day when we will celebrate the long-awaited independence and I strongly believe that Serbians living in Kosova can have a dignified life if they chose it. Otherwise they can go back to their motherland Serbia and seek one, but I do not believe they would be treated better there. This I know for a fact for the displaced individuals from Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova too.

Here's what I think Ceku needs to do if he wants to be taken seriously by the Serb community.

1. Go to these Serb enclaves and actually talk to the people. Invite them to partake in the new Kosovo, rather than telling them to take it and like it from afar. Such actions don't win him any points, especially if he's as distrusted by Serbs as Kostunica is by Albanians.

2. Invite K-Serbs like Ivanovic and even Father Sava of Decani to engage in serious talks of reconciliation, cooperation, and civic engagement of both communities. It is a known fact that during the 1999 war, the Decani monastery housed and protected Albanian refugees. By rebuilding ties between the two communities, K-Serbs will feel less inclined to leave, or at the very least turn inward in their municipalities.

3. Pass legislative resolutions in the Pristina legislature recognizing the Serbs' right to life, liberty, and property. Provide tangible proof that Serbs will be welcome in the new Kosovo.

4. Appoint key Serb officials such as Ivanovic (one of the few Serbs fluent in Albanian) to key positions in the Kosovo government - none of these symbolic posts with no real job . Up the Serb representation in parliament to 20%. Essentially give them something with which they can work with. By doing so, Ceku and the K-Albanian government will send a strong signal to Serbia, to the Balkans, and to the world they are really serious about moving forward in an independent Kosovo and making a clear break from the past. Such moves will definitely win international support and respect.

Serbs will cooperate once they see that their security is real and guaranteed. It's time for both sides to end the rhetorical BS and start looking at Kosovo from a pragmatic point of view. I am sick and tired of people still fighting over this piece of land as if it were a toy on a school playground. By working together, both sides would be literally astounded how quickly the area develops. Work against each other, and Kosovo will be just another poor European villayet.

One thing that REALLY disturbed me was that someone mentioned earlier that "albania didn't exist when serbs lived there thousands of years ago..", have never heard anything more absurt! The albanians "formally known as the Illyrians" are the native people of not only Kosovo and Albania but of Serbia and the former states of Yugoslavia. The Illyrians lived in that region thousands of years before any Slavs "russian origin" had ever thought about moving south. Get your FACTS straight!

Dear Mike

All what you mentioned and suggested above are alreday done by Kosovo PrimeMinister(s) and Institutions. Kosovo had long years ahead for fulfilling the standards, those standards are regularly evaluated by international community and based on those reports we have now final recommendation/proposal on UN table.
It is another issue when K-Serbs are manipulated and instrumentalized by Serbia for its own calculations and often actions for fulfilling such standards tried to be minimalized or refused by K-Serbs.
In Kosovo are present many cases of positive discrimination of the Serbs and I really wonder how tolerant are K-Albanians and the other minority groups just after few years of the war... The only explanation can be motivation for main objective Kosovars have put to themselves.
Talking about reconciliation - I don't know if somebody can forgive without being asked for it. Albanians were never been asked from Serbs for forgivness. Even more, Serbia didn't apologyze publicly and officially for terrible things done to Kosovo people in a past... First steps for obvious peace, tolerance and reconciliation are well known in international community and I must say there are steps forward even without those steps done by Serbia and Serbs...
Whoever has doubts about what is said above is kindly invited to visit independent Kosovo and get convinced. Or may be somebody doesn't like it at all. It doesn't matter, Kosovo has its own way with or without them.

Now Russia which is not under the Wests sphere of influence. That is why Russia is the only country that can stand up against the West.

Why aren't you people that claim to be Illyrians still Illyrians? Why are you called Albanians? Greeks are still Greeks, Turks are still Turks. Were the Illyrians wiped out, or what?

Mike, thanks for your comment, sensible and constructive as always!

To Dane: It may be convenient to dismiss Kosovo Serbs as puppets brainwashed and controlled by Belgrade, but it hardly aids gaining trust and reconciliation. The hard reality is that Kosovo Serbs (brainwashed or not) do not want an independent Kosovo, and if Independence is achieved, you will have to deal with the very difficult task of changing their minds, and gain their trust and support. That is what is needed to be done in order for independent Kosovo to prove a success story. Not an easy one though, I’m sure you'll agree.

To PK and Wes Clark: Enough, already! Who was first where is completely irrelevant to the Kosovo status problem. These kinds of arguments (“We were here first!”) are totally absurd and belong to the ancient times you refer to rather than the 21st century.

Peace,

Mike,


1 and 2: How about Kosova/o Serbs start taking responsibility for themselves and their own (in)actions? Instead of waiting for Ceku to beg for them to come out of their enclaves, maybe they should’ve stopped boycotting the institutions and done something productive, when they were being asked to participate. Being an extremist nationalist and not happy that “my way or the highway” isn’t going too well for them anymore, do we just blame Ceku and Albanians? Kosovar Serbs should realize that there will be no more privileges for them just for being Serbian (as a good portion of them have been spoiled by Milosevic regime at the expense of non-Serbs), and will have to cooperate with the rest of the people they live with in an equal dignified manner. If they choose to boycott the very same institutions that they claim aren’t representing them, then too bad – no ones fault but theirs.


3. Given what is written in the UN resolution submitted by Ahtisaari, which Kosovar government would have to implement if/when the resolution is passed in UNSC, Kosovar Serbs would have the best minority rights in Europe. Please come up with some concrete issues to discuss – I can speak for everyone in that we are all sick and tired of hearing the same loop of senseless propaganda, so please stop repeating that BS. It isn’t doing anyone any good, so come up with arguments/issues based on facts, please!


4. Why would anyone give 20% of governing power to a minority of less than 10% of the population? That doesn’t make sense at all – neither mathematically or just plain old common sense! Let every community be represented based on the population percentage living in Kosova/o. Why should the Serbs be represented more than anyone else?


One thing that I do agree with you is that people should stop being a bunch of cry babies and start taking responsibility for their future.
Give Belgrade the boot, have Kosovar Serbs integrate into the Kosovar institutions, and work for a better tomorrow. Almost as simple as that, but thanks to mother Russia and a very “caring” Serbia, nationalist extremism in Serbian enclaves has no bounds, thanks to the fueling with an overly unhealthy dose from Belgrade, hence their livelihood in there resembles that of a poverty and hunger ridden of African country in bad conflict.

As the saying goes; “can’t we all just get along?”…


Peace!

Ludmija wrote:

Why aren't you people that claim to be Illyrians still Illyrians? Why are you called Albanians? Greeks are still Greeks, Turks are still Turks. Were the Illyrians wiped out, or what?
(ludimuja, Tuesday, 27 March, 2007, 21:10)

The question can be asked what were the Serbs called before they left the Mogilov swamps of the Ukraine. The Serbs were named after their Iranian leader's tribe called the Serboi.

The Albanians were one of a group of tribes that made up the Illirians.

Eni, why would the K Serbs ignore their sovereign government in belgrade and cooperate with the quasi-legal institutions of an insurgent group. The K Serb enclaves (and the whole of Kosovo) are still within the borders of Serbia?

Mike, having worked in Kosovo, and knowing all about the processes of the last couple of years, I can easily say that your comment is destructive (intentionally or just simple ignorance?). Some of the efforts you mention are made by the Government in Prishtina. As for your proposal number 3, if that is accepted by Kosovar Government it should be exepted by all neighbouring/Balkan countries, proportional to the number of minorities. Those that have expelled some of the native population should return their property/land, for example, Serbia should return land to expelled Albanians to Turkey, and Greece should return their land to Albanians expelled from there, and recognise cultural rights to Albanians who still live there. Of course all this, proportional to the number of minorities, you can grant so much to an numerically insignificant minority.
I must also add, although it is obvious that you are politically charged, time this time in history is on the side of Kosovars.

Last unresolved issue?

Just like after Dayton 95', there were no more issues to resolve?

What about RS? and than and than...... as well as Serbs anger over KiM (if it does indeed gain independence)?

This man is simply spreading false fabricated lies to the rest of the world and Russia knows it.

Fabricated lies? That's redundant.

Equal rights...? explain that to the thousands of families who have lost loved ones before , during and afther the kosovo conflict started....The world can not be serious to believe the lies and wool that is being pulled over their eyes by these extremists....
The same rights can be granted, and a supervised integration back into serbia can also work, can it not. but it is the sole and only goal to strip serbia bit by bit of the rest of the land it owns...
PS..Albania didnt even exist when serbs lived there thousands of years ago..ITS A FACT

To BK
You are funny and naiv.
According to you only Russia knows the truth all the other countries are the idiots. You and your friends are reelly running out of intelligent arguments. BK you made my day.

Who cares what Russia knows? Russia will not use its veto, get a grip already! They already said that they cannot be more Serb than the Serbs themselves...and if the Serbs are in no position to do anything, then what does that translate to? It is so amusing to see how you Serbians are so enshrouded in your fairytales that you can't even tell night from day anymore.

I was so pleased last night when US and GB immediately supported the plan for the Independence of Kosova. It was last night at those moments that once again it was demonstrated who runs the show and in the end it is being run correctly. I am so excited about the day when we will celebrate the long-awaited independence and I strongly believe that Serbians living in Kosova can have a dignified life if they chose it. Otherwise they can go back to their motherland Serbia and seek one, but I do not believe they would be treated better there. This I know for a fact for the displaced individuals from Croatia, Bosnia and Kosova too.

Here's what I think Ceku needs to do if he wants to be taken seriously by the Serb community.

1. Go to these Serb enclaves and actually talk to the people. Invite them to partake in the new Kosovo, rather than telling them to take it and like it from afar. Such actions don't win him any points, especially if he's as distrusted by Serbs as Kostunica is by Albanians.

2. Invite K-Serbs like Ivanovic and even Father Sava of Decani to engage in serious talks of reconciliation, cooperation, and civic engagement of both communities. It is a known fact that during the 1999 war, the Decani monastery housed and protected Albanian refugees. By rebuilding ties between the two communities, K-Serbs will feel less inclined to leave, or at the very least turn inward in their municipalities.

3. Pass legislative resolutions in the Pristina legislature recognizing the Serbs' right to life, liberty, and property. Provide tangible proof that Serbs will be welcome in the new Kosovo.

4. Appoint key Serb officials such as Ivanovic (one of the few Serbs fluent in Albanian) to key positions in the Kosovo government - none of these symbolic posts with no real job . Up the Serb representation in parliament to 20%. Essentially give them something with which they can work with. By doing so, Ceku and the K-Albanian government will send a strong signal to Serbia, to the Balkans, and to the world they are really serious about moving forward in an independent Kosovo and making a clear break from the past. Such moves will definitely win international support and respect.

Serbs will cooperate once they see that their security is real and guaranteed. It's time for both sides to end the rhetorical BS and start looking at Kosovo from a pragmatic point of view. I am sick and tired of people still fighting over this piece of land as if it were a toy on a school playground. By working together, both sides would be literally astounded how quickly the area develops. Work against each other, and Kosovo will be just another poor European villayet.

One thing that REALLY disturbed me was that someone mentioned earlier that "albania didn't exist when serbs lived there thousands of years ago..", have never heard anything more absurt! The albanians "formally known as the Illyrians" are the native people of not only Kosovo and Albania but of Serbia and the former states of Yugoslavia. The Illyrians lived in that region thousands of years before any Slavs "russian origin" had ever thought about moving south. Get your FACTS straight!

Dear Mike

All what you mentioned and suggested above are alreday done by Kosovo PrimeMinister(s) and Institutions. Kosovo had long years ahead for fulfilling the standards, those standards are regularly evaluated by international community and based on those reports we have now final recommendation/proposal on UN table.
It is another issue when K-Serbs are manipulated and instrumentalized by Serbia for its own calculations and often actions for fulfilling such standards tried to be minimalized or refused by K-Serbs.
In Kosovo are present many cases of positive discrimination of the Serbs and I really wonder how tolerant are K-Albanians and the other minority groups just after few years of the war... The only explanation can be motivation for main objective Kosovars have put to themselves.
Talking about reconciliation - I don't know if somebody can forgive without being asked for it. Albanians were never been asked from Serbs for forgivness. Even more, Serbia didn't apologyze publicly and officially for terrible things done to Kosovo people in a past... First steps for obvious peace, tolerance and reconciliation are well known in international community and I must say there are steps forward even without those steps done by Serbia and Serbs...
Whoever has doubts about what is said above is kindly invited to visit independent Kosovo and get convinced. Or may be somebody doesn't like it at all. It doesn't matter, Kosovo has its own way with or without them.

Now Russia which is not under the Wests sphere of influence. That is why Russia is the only country that can stand up against the West.

Why aren't you people that claim to be Illyrians still Illyrians? Why are you called Albanians? Greeks are still Greeks, Turks are still Turks. Were the Illyrians wiped out, or what?

Mike, thanks for your comment, sensible and constructive as always!

To Dane: It may be convenient to dismiss Kosovo Serbs as puppets brainwashed and controlled by Belgrade, but it hardly aids gaining trust and reconciliation. The hard reality is that Kosovo Serbs (brainwashed or not) do not want an independent Kosovo, and if Independence is achieved, you will have to deal with the very difficult task of changing their minds, and gain their trust and support. That is what is needed to be done in order for independent Kosovo to prove a success story. Not an easy one though, I’m sure you'll agree.

To PK and Wes Clark: Enough, already! Who was first where is completely irrelevant to the Kosovo status problem. These kinds of arguments (“We were here first!”) are totally absurd and belong to the ancient times you refer to rather than the 21st century.

Peace,

Mike,


1 and 2: How about Kosova/o Serbs start taking responsibility for themselves and their own (in)actions? Instead of waiting for Ceku to beg for them to come out of their enclaves, maybe they should’ve stopped boycotting the institutions and done something productive, when they were being asked to participate. Being an extremist nationalist and not happy that “my way or the highway” isn’t going too well for them anymore, do we just blame Ceku and Albanians? Kosovar Serbs should realize that there will be no more privileges for them just for being Serbian (as a good portion of them have been spoiled by Milosevic regime at the expense of non-Serbs), and will have to cooperate with the rest of the people they live with in an equal dignified manner. If they choose to boycott the very same institutions that they claim aren’t representing them, then too bad – no ones fault but theirs.


3. Given what is written in the UN resolution submitted by Ahtisaari, which Kosovar government would have to implement if/when the resolution is passed in UNSC, Kosovar Serbs would have the best minority rights in Europe. Please come up with some concrete issues to discuss – I can speak for everyone in that we are all sick and tired of hearing the same loop of senseless propaganda, so please stop repeating that BS. It isn’t doing anyone any good, so come up with arguments/issues based on facts, please!


4. Why would anyone give 20% of governing power to a minority of less than 10% of the population? That doesn’t make sense at all – neither mathematically or just plain old common sense! Let every community be represented based on the population percentage living in Kosova/o. Why should the Serbs be represented more than anyone else?


One thing that I do agree with you is that people should stop being a bunch of cry babies and start taking responsibility for their future.
Give Belgrade the boot, have Kosovar Serbs integrate into the Kosovar institutions, and work for a better tomorrow. Almost as simple as that, but thanks to mother Russia and a very “caring” Serbia, nationalist extremism in Serbian enclaves has no bounds, thanks to the fueling with an overly unhealthy dose from Belgrade, hence their livelihood in there resembles that of a poverty and hunger ridden of African country in bad conflict.

As the saying goes; “can’t we all just get along?”…


Peace!

Ludmija wrote:

Why aren't you people that claim to be Illyrians still Illyrians? Why are you called Albanians? Greeks are still Greeks, Turks are still Turks. Were the Illyrians wiped out, or what?
(ludimuja, Tuesday, 27 March, 2007, 21:10)

The question can be asked what were the Serbs called before they left the Mogilov swamps of the Ukraine. The Serbs were named after their Iranian leader's tribe called the Serboi.

The Albanians were one of a group of tribes that made up the Illirians.

Eni, why would the K Serbs ignore their sovereign government in belgrade and cooperate with the quasi-legal institutions of an insurgent group. The K Serb enclaves (and the whole of Kosovo) are still within the borders of Serbia?

Mike, having worked in Kosovo, and knowing all about the processes of the last couple of years, I can easily say that your comment is destructive (intentionally or just simple ignorance?). Some of the efforts you mention are made by the Government in Prishtina. As for your proposal number 3, if that is accepted by Kosovar Government it should be exepted by all neighbouring/Balkan countries, proportional to the number of minorities. Those that have expelled some of the native population should return their property/land, for example, Serbia should return land to expelled Albanians to Turkey, and Greece should return their land to Albanians expelled from there, and recognise cultural rights to Albanians who still live there. Of course all this, proportional to the number of minorities, you can grant so much to an numerically insignificant minority.
I must also add, although it is obvious that you are politically charged, time this time in history is on the side of Kosovars.