NATO chief: Kosovo is unique

Now here is a question; lets assume that NATO stay on indefinitly and at some point in the very near future Serbia becomes a partner of NATO - that then could mean that Serbian troops as part of NATO opertaions in Kosovo & Metohija could theoretically protect all areas required as part of the ongonig operations could it not? Now that might be a interesting dilema?

Another strong indication coming from NATO Secretary General, that Kosova and serbia are gettin divorced once and for all.

Sure and Albanian troops will protect Belgrade inhabitants.

Princip,

By that time, Kosova has its own armed forces and NATO has left the place long time ago, good luck!

the following comment from the FT really spells out what Russia wants from the process:

If the US continues to act unilaterally, without giving answers, this could push us towards a crisis. Such a crisis could occur if we stop communicating and start to act unilaterally. So, for example, Russia could acknowledgethe independence of some "frozen" territories such as South Ossetia or Abkhazia if the US acknowledges the independence of Kosovo without a Security Council decision.

We're just a bargaining chip at the global poker game between the US and Russia

Nothing tangible was said in this artcie. The West keeps on saying that Kosovo will be a unique case and not set precedent. I really wonder if they pay attention to world events because both Abkhazia and South Ossetia have had independence referendums that overwhelmingly favored secession. So just because NATO says Kosovo will be unique does not make it unique. Many little parastates are looking at the Kosovo situation very carefully and will follow through with their own movements depending on the outcome here.

Supposing the UN resolution in killed by Russia and China. Enough politicians in Pristina as well as comments here would simply say "F you, we're declaring independence anyway". If that happens, the international community must not recognize Kosovo for the sake of international stability. If the US and the European countries recognize it one by one, this whole "it won't set a precedent" goes right out the window and we'll have a number of little parastates declaring independence and recognized by only one or two countries:

1. Northern Cyprus
2. Republika Srpska
3. Northern Epiros (yep get used to that one)
4. Nagorno-Karabakh
5. Ossestia
6. Abkhazia
7. Transniestr

The only way for Kosovo to NOT set a precedent and be a unique case is for the international community to broker an independence deal that will be so watered down and make it so dependent on the EU that other potential breakaway regions will think twice about their own dreams of secession.

Princip,
Where is this Metohija I've heard about Kosovo, but Metohija is on thing which only you serbs are mentioning, can you explain us why Metohija.

The argument on whether Kosovo is a unique case been reframed so as to distract. Of course Kosovo is a unique case, and unequivocably has been since 1999 when a NATO intervention overrode the United Nations position. If it was unique then it is unique now - but that doesn't mean that two wrongs make a right just because the Kosovo issue is unique.

Princip asks an interesting question. Eventually, defense forces from both the Republic of Serbia and the whatever of Kosovo/a will be part of NATO exercises in that territory. There is no other way. This was always the plan and nothing that has transpired to date indicating that the plan will change.

Pejon07: I'm afraid you have been listening too much to reactionaries. You don't have a prayer of having your prediction fulfilled.

WHY DIDN'T B-92 REPORT THIS? IT IS IN SERBIA ISN'T IT??
(Art, 23 March 2007, 14:40)

Don't get a heart attack, it was previously reported on B-92. A follow up is probably coming, this was just reported today on the newswires.

For your information, the three so called Albanian patriots were US citizens that decided to become mercenaries and fight in another countries internal civil conflice. Very similar to the current Kosovo PM Agim Ceku who is nothing more than a KLA Mercenary Terrorist.

Nobody deserved to die in that way, but they should have stayed in the US where they belonged.

The US treatment of IRAQI Terrorists in Guantonomo Bay and murders are not being questioned in any internationanl court.

MIKE:
You forgot to list Vojvodina and Sandjak as "parastates" that definitely will seek independence from Serbia.
On the other hand Chamaria (or northern Epiros as you call it) is overwhelmingly Albanian and is not going anywhere outside of Albania.

However, as most diplomats agree, Kosova is in a unique situation and will NOT set a precedent.

Nice try but, you need to do better than that.

From my time in Kosovo (i Metohija) and can say that the reasons Serbs refer to the 'classical' name was because it also was the legal name even under Yugoslavia until the 1960s.

The Metohija has dozens of Monasteries and Churches as well as property owned by the Orthodox Church.

If Kosovo were to properly return the Church land nationalized under the SFRJ, entire towns in the western half of the province would again go back to its rightful owners.

The property disputes alone are reason enough to delay status and focus on standards. Both land nationalized under the SFRJ and land bought under ‘duress’ post – 99 are quite complicated and lay unresolved in the current judicial system.

Serbian land, both private and Church owned, post ’99 has been disgraceful. The people here are not democratic or believe in the rule of law. The west can not just do ‘shake a bake democracy’. Even the Germans, a homogenous, Christian, and democratic people were ruled by military occupational forces until 1949 and in some issues full issues of sovereignty were not returned until the 1980’s or even the reunification of Germany.

We should not be so quick to reward people who make excuses for there actions. The rule of law and justice is not wronging members of a minority community under justification that “they wronged my people”.

I'm not surprised an Albanian would suddenly become all anti-independence when someone mentions an issue in their own backyard. Typical response, but it's still a potential factor. I'm not saying it is as potent as some of the other areas, but why in the world would you be all in favor of severing territory from one area but against the same issue when it concerns you?
It's also typical you cite Vojvodina (which is overwhelmingly Serbian, so that case obviously won't work either Arben) and Sandzak. Why? Because it's against Serbs and it's in your interest to make sure Serbs are at the losing end of the argument.

Let me phrase it this way:

Would you, or would any Albanian, be in favor of getting rid of Northern Epiros if the Greeks were pressing for independence or if there was a large enough majority of Greeks to force the issue? How about this one: would you be in favor of Serbs seeking to break away from Kosovo once the province gains independence?If you suddenly become more top-down authoritative than Milosevic your true nationalist feelings will come out.

I'm not holding my breath on this one. More likely my question will either be ignored, or shot down in a frenzy of self-righteousness. However if anyone has anything tangible and intelligent to add to the debate, I'm more than happy to listen.

Kosovo & Metohia will only be unique if the US & UK managed to go at least 7 others to vote against international law and the foundations of the UN on a new resolution superceding 1244. Without this new resolution sui generis means absolutely nothing and any ILLEGAL declaration by the ethnic-Albanians will only lead to conflict and the US might not recognise such a illegal declaration - have you heard any current US politician of power suggest so? NO only has beens or politicians who have no power!

Of course Kosovo is an unique case it is a 'one of a kind' there is no other Kosovo on the planet, it is unique by definition. In fact every region in the world can argue that it has a unique set of circumstance to support its claims for independence. Unique, what complete nonsense!

The rule of law that should not be broken is the one that respects a nation’s territorial integrity. Let's not set a precedent where territory is grabbed, by whatever means, and claimed as independent, there would be no end to it.

the situation in Kosova - Metohija and Serbia is grossly misundersood simply because people approach it from it from a narrow nationalist standpoint. Support for the narrow bourgeois nationalist position of Tadic et al and his Albanian counteparts: gangster gun - runners and drug dealers is being fought out while the people of the region, be them Serb, Roma or Albanian sink further into the morass of abject poverty. Big business in the West court Independence because the greedily eye - up the Economic privatisation of the economy. Tadic et al are playing the same game in Serbia. Ingratiating themselves to the West while selling off your Industrial Jewels to Western carpet - bagger capitalist gangsters in expensive suits. Release youself from your Nationalist haze and support a Democratic Socialist Federation of Serbia and Kosovo - Metohija. The interst of the people before the machination of big business. There is no other way! It will take time but a Democratic Socialist Federation of Serbia and Kosovo - Metohija is the only foudation upon which the future of the people of the region can be based.

Nice try Arben Qosja...

Too bad for you those two regions of Serbia are SERB majority so don't get your poor dreams up...

and your Greater Albania is nothing more than a dream as well so get used to the idea that Serbia is the leader in the Balkans.

Mike, Epirus is a large area covering northern (modern) Greece and parts of Southern Albania, and not all Epirus was or is inhabited by Greeks. 300 000 Albanians were expelled from parts of Northern Greece/Northern Epirus currently part of Greece between 1912 and the WWII. And yes to independence for Kosova! And perhaps autonomy or something similar or more to the Albanians/Chams expelled from their lands Greece. As for the south of Albania, if you think independence can be granted to a minority of a few people, you will make all laugh.

Bubulina,

So let me get this straight. By your rationale, you seem to be in favor of granting autonomy or even independence in northern Greece for a community that by your words were expelled from said territory in 1912. Now you claim that granting the same type of autonomy/independence to a minority of Greeks in southern Albania (Northern Epiros) is riduculous. How are the two cases mutally exclusive? Especially when Greeks are still living in southern Albania, but Albanians/Chams no longer live in Greece? Again, why should self determination be imposed for one community and not for another? That's my ultimate question, and your comment, while interesting and insightful, doesn't seem to convince me of your rationale.

Now here is a question; lets assume that NATO stay on indefinitly and at some point in the very near future Serbia becomes a partner of NATO - that then could mean that Serbian troops as part of NATO opertaions in Kosovo & Metohija could theoretically protect all areas required as part of the ongonig operations could it not? Now that might be a interesting dilema?

Another strong indication coming from NATO Secretary General, that Kosova and serbia are gettin divorced once and for all.

Sure and Albanian troops will protect Belgrade inhabitants.

Princip,

By that time, Kosova has its own armed forces and NATO has left the place long time ago, good luck!

the following comment from the FT really spells out what Russia wants from the process:

If the US continues to act unilaterally, without giving answers, this could push us towards a crisis. Such a crisis could occur if we stop communicating and start to act unilaterally. So, for example, Russia could acknowledgethe independence of some "frozen" territories such as South Ossetia or Abkhazia if the US acknowledges the independence of Kosovo without a Security Council decision.

We're just a bargaining chip at the global poker game between the US and Russia

Nothing tangible was said in this artcie. The West keeps on saying that Kosovo will be a unique case and not set precedent. I really wonder if they pay attention to world events because both Abkhazia and South Ossetia have had independence referendums that overwhelmingly favored secession. So just because NATO says Kosovo will be unique does not make it unique. Many little parastates are looking at the Kosovo situation very carefully and will follow through with their own movements depending on the outcome here.

Supposing the UN resolution in killed by Russia and China. Enough politicians in Pristina as well as comments here would simply say "F you, we're declaring independence anyway". If that happens, the international community must not recognize Kosovo for the sake of international stability. If the US and the European countries recognize it one by one, this whole "it won't set a precedent" goes right out the window and we'll have a number of little parastates declaring independence and recognized by only one or two countries:

1. Northern Cyprus
2. Republika Srpska
3. Northern Epiros (yep get used to that one)
4. Nagorno-Karabakh
5. Ossestia
6. Abkhazia
7. Transniestr

The only way for Kosovo to NOT set a precedent and be a unique case is for the international community to broker an independence deal that will be so watered down and make it so dependent on the EU that other potential breakaway regions will think twice about their own dreams of secession.

Princip,
Where is this Metohija I've heard about Kosovo, but Metohija is on thing which only you serbs are mentioning, can you explain us why Metohija.

The argument on whether Kosovo is a unique case been reframed so as to distract. Of course Kosovo is a unique case, and unequivocably has been since 1999 when a NATO intervention overrode the United Nations position. If it was unique then it is unique now - but that doesn't mean that two wrongs make a right just because the Kosovo issue is unique.

Princip asks an interesting question. Eventually, defense forces from both the Republic of Serbia and the whatever of Kosovo/a will be part of NATO exercises in that territory. There is no other way. This was always the plan and nothing that has transpired to date indicating that the plan will change.

Pejon07: I'm afraid you have been listening too much to reactionaries. You don't have a prayer of having your prediction fulfilled.

WHY DIDN'T B-92 REPORT THIS? IT IS IN SERBIA ISN'T IT??
(Art, 23 March 2007, 14:40)

Don't get a heart attack, it was previously reported on B-92. A follow up is probably coming, this was just reported today on the newswires.

For your information, the three so called Albanian patriots were US citizens that decided to become mercenaries and fight in another countries internal civil conflice. Very similar to the current Kosovo PM Agim Ceku who is nothing more than a KLA Mercenary Terrorist.

Nobody deserved to die in that way, but they should have stayed in the US where they belonged.

The US treatment of IRAQI Terrorists in Guantonomo Bay and murders are not being questioned in any internationanl court.

MIKE:
You forgot to list Vojvodina and Sandjak as "parastates" that definitely will seek independence from Serbia.
On the other hand Chamaria (or northern Epiros as you call it) is overwhelmingly Albanian and is not going anywhere outside of Albania.

However, as most diplomats agree, Kosova is in a unique situation and will NOT set a precedent.

Nice try but, you need to do better than that.

From my time in Kosovo (i Metohija) and can say that the reasons Serbs refer to the 'classical' name was because it also was the legal name even under Yugoslavia until the 1960s.

The Metohija has dozens of Monasteries and Churches as well as property owned by the Orthodox Church.

If Kosovo were to properly return the Church land nationalized under the SFRJ, entire towns in the western half of the province would again go back to its rightful owners.

The property disputes alone are reason enough to delay status and focus on standards. Both land nationalized under the SFRJ and land bought under ‘duress’ post – 99 are quite complicated and lay unresolved in the current judicial system.

Serbian land, both private and Church owned, post ’99 has been disgraceful. The people here are not democratic or believe in the rule of law. The west can not just do ‘shake a bake democracy’. Even the Germans, a homogenous, Christian, and democratic people were ruled by military occupational forces until 1949 and in some issues full issues of sovereignty were not returned until the 1980’s or even the reunification of Germany.

We should not be so quick to reward people who make excuses for there actions. The rule of law and justice is not wronging members of a minority community under justification that “they wronged my people”.

I'm not surprised an Albanian would suddenly become all anti-independence when someone mentions an issue in their own backyard. Typical response, but it's still a potential factor. I'm not saying it is as potent as some of the other areas, but why in the world would you be all in favor of severing territory from one area but against the same issue when it concerns you?
It's also typical you cite Vojvodina (which is overwhelmingly Serbian, so that case obviously won't work either Arben) and Sandzak. Why? Because it's against Serbs and it's in your interest to make sure Serbs are at the losing end of the argument.

Let me phrase it this way:

Would you, or would any Albanian, be in favor of getting rid of Northern Epiros if the Greeks were pressing for independence or if there was a large enough majority of Greeks to force the issue? How about this one: would you be in favor of Serbs seeking to break away from Kosovo once the province gains independence?If you suddenly become more top-down authoritative than Milosevic your true nationalist feelings will come out.

I'm not holding my breath on this one. More likely my question will either be ignored, or shot down in a frenzy of self-righteousness. However if anyone has anything tangible and intelligent to add to the debate, I'm more than happy to listen.

Kosovo & Metohia will only be unique if the US & UK managed to go at least 7 others to vote against international law and the foundations of the UN on a new resolution superceding 1244. Without this new resolution sui generis means absolutely nothing and any ILLEGAL declaration by the ethnic-Albanians will only lead to conflict and the US might not recognise such a illegal declaration - have you heard any current US politician of power suggest so? NO only has beens or politicians who have no power!

Of course Kosovo is an unique case it is a 'one of a kind' there is no other Kosovo on the planet, it is unique by definition. In fact every region in the world can argue that it has a unique set of circumstance to support its claims for independence. Unique, what complete nonsense!

The rule of law that should not be broken is the one that respects a nation’s territorial integrity. Let's not set a precedent where territory is grabbed, by whatever means, and claimed as independent, there would be no end to it.

the situation in Kosova - Metohija and Serbia is grossly misundersood simply because people approach it from it from a narrow nationalist standpoint. Support for the narrow bourgeois nationalist position of Tadic et al and his Albanian counteparts: gangster gun - runners and drug dealers is being fought out while the people of the region, be them Serb, Roma or Albanian sink further into the morass of abject poverty. Big business in the West court Independence because the greedily eye - up the Economic privatisation of the economy. Tadic et al are playing the same game in Serbia. Ingratiating themselves to the West while selling off your Industrial Jewels to Western carpet - bagger capitalist gangsters in expensive suits. Release youself from your Nationalist haze and support a Democratic Socialist Federation of Serbia and Kosovo - Metohija. The interst of the people before the machination of big business. There is no other way! It will take time but a Democratic Socialist Federation of Serbia and Kosovo - Metohija is the only foudation upon which the future of the people of the region can be based.

Nice try Arben Qosja...

Too bad for you those two regions of Serbia are SERB majority so don't get your poor dreams up...

and your Greater Albania is nothing more than a dream as well so get used to the idea that Serbia is the leader in the Balkans.

Mike, Epirus is a large area covering northern (modern) Greece and parts of Southern Albania, and not all Epirus was or is inhabited by Greeks. 300 000 Albanians were expelled from parts of Northern Greece/Northern Epirus currently part of Greece between 1912 and the WWII. And yes to independence for Kosova! And perhaps autonomy or something similar or more to the Albanians/Chams expelled from their lands Greece. As for the south of Albania, if you think independence can be granted to a minority of a few people, you will make all laugh.

Bubulina,

So let me get this straight. By your rationale, you seem to be in favor of granting autonomy or even independence in northern Greece for a community that by your words were expelled from said territory in 1912. Now you claim that granting the same type of autonomy/independence to a minority of Greeks in southern Albania (Northern Epiros) is riduculous. How are the two cases mutally exclusive? Especially when Greeks are still living in southern Albania, but Albanians/Chams no longer live in Greece? Again, why should self determination be imposed for one community and not for another? That's my ultimate question, and your comment, while interesting and insightful, doesn't seem to convince me of your rationale.