Rehn warns of “chaos” in the Balkans

The idea that giving Kosovo independence will turn the Balkans into a utopia are wrong.

It will breed unrest among ALbanians in Macedonia and Presevo valley in Serbia right outside Kosovo. There will be chaos in Macedonia and Serbia among the albanian populations.

Rehn is absolutely right there will be chaos, so what does that mean? Altogether now.... COMPROMISE. Yes, folks, compromise should eliminate this spectre of chaos and war everyone seems to be warning of, yet no one seems to be ready to avoid. You can't force a settlement down the throat of a sovereign state and expect it to roll over and obey and NOT avoid some repercussions. You can't envision the international arena just the way you like it and expect that to be the compromise. Belgrade and Pristina will have to make some serious concessions and sacrifices in order to reach an agreement. Perhaps increasing the number of Serb municipalities, increasing the level of Serb legislative representation, or mandating early entry for Serbia and Kosovo in the EU. I know neither side will totally get what it wants.

I can't say exactly what compomise should or would entail. What I do know is that Serbia should not be expected to accept a proposal against its will, while simultaneously be expected to be an obedient servant to the whims of the EU. I think we tried something like this one time in the past. Didn't it take place in Versailles in 1918 or something???

Mike, Serbia has no sovereignty over Kosovo so there is no sovereignty lost.
The little sovereignty Serbia had in Kosovo was lost when it attacked its own people.

I don't think I can make that any simpler for you to understand.

Mike, I appreciate what you are saying, but why should Serbia give up 15% of its territory at all? They should by all means offer autonomy, but when the 1999 war ended Resolution 1244 was signed and ratified by the UN.
This means that Kosovo remains part of Serbian territory under international law. Despite the image being painted by people like Holbroke and Wisner, it is not 'radicals' in Serbia who wish to keep Kosovo, but virtually every single Serbian living there or in the diaspora. Plus many other non Serbs in the international community who are strongly opposed.
Forcing any type of compromise (ie. independence) will be an absolute disaster on many different levels.
It will kick off a regional war. Don't forget that WWI and WWII started in the Balkans.

All to those people who preach for COMPROMISE: There is no little pregancy in this world. Either a woman is pregnant or is not, can't be just a little pregnant. The same thing with Kosova. Either give indipendence or not. You can't find a COMPROMISE in the middle of independence and autonomy.

To Art. Kosovo is still legally part of Serbia. Maybe in only name and little else, but it's still legally part of Serbia. You can't deny that. Saying "The little sovereignty Serbia had in Kosovo was lost when it attacked its own people" is an interpretation - your interpretation, and unless you carry tremendous weight at the UN, it's still that. An interpretation. Serbia will only lose sovereignty after the UN officially mandates it, not because you or anyone else thinks otherwise.

Alban/Tirana - Of course compromise can occur beyond the independence/no independence dichotomy. Pristina can offer real and sincere cooperation with the Serb minority beyond empty words that are more for the ears of international donors than Serbs. Serbs can agree to start trusting their Albanian counterparts if and when they feel their own security and well being is insured. Independence should not, I repeat not, mean Albanian victory over Serbian defeat.

You want real compromise to start fast? Have the US threaten to withdraw its blank check foreign policy towards Pristina and have them stand up on their own. That should ruffle more than a few feathers.

To Art

Actually, Serbia does have sovereignty over Kosovo & Metohija, otherwise why would everyone be so concerned with what Serbia will do regarding "independence". The fact of the matter is; a portion of Serbian territory is currently under occupation.

To Alban/Tirana

This situation resembles a ZIT thats about to make a nasty mess, not a birth.

Yes Kate you're right. Who started WWI again because I think I forgot? Furthermore virtually every Serb in Serbia knows that Kosovo is a lost cause.

Art,

A small number of Serbia and it's people thought it a lost cause but you forget that millions voted for the consitution in which Kosovo & Metohija was stated as a integral part of Serbia. Beyond that the UN also voted in 1244 reconfirmimg that only 8 years ago - what has changed since then other than attacks against all non-Albanains!

New talks, new realisation, new compromise! What is the alternative - old hate, old violence and old status quo!

It's time that a lasting solution that is agreeable to all is found.

To Mr Albana/Tirana:

Well since there can be no compromise between autonomy and independence, and since the Greeks of Northern Epirus, Agioi Saranta, Argyrokastro, Dropolis, (and various other cities, (with their apparent greek toponyms)) have neither of the above, we will arrange/demand the immediate independence of Northern Epirus where more than 200,000 Greeks have been living under oppression since 1945.

Thank you in advance, Albana/Tirana for that.

What goes round, goes all around.

well well well, you guys are funny, its like there is a elephant in the room and you pretending that is not, just because you don't want to see it!
So the same with Kosovo, its going towards independence, and some of the Serb Commentators talking about compromise, continued talks etc..Kosovo de facto is independent and soon it will be de jure whether it will be through new UNSC resolution, or through Kosovo's Parliament (I also read that Kosovo's Parliament has to declare its Independence because UN dont declare countries as independent states, they do recognize them after they declare independent themselves), but, that doesn't matter anymore. We never trusted Europe, they where against us for many many years because of strong Serbian propaganda and lies about us being "terrorist", "separatist", "fundamentalist", and what not....But, with help of USA and Europe started to realize that the mistakes they done in 1913 letting Kosovo outside Albania should not happen again!
To Princip I'll say the only compromise (that you want so much to happen) that is happening is Kosovo can't join either Albania or Serbia. Kosovo and Kosovars (albanians, serbs, romas,turks, bosnians,gorans,etc) should be left alone to build their state, economy and their relationships towards EU together with Serbia and Albania as Kosovo's first neighbors!

Dear Kosovans:

Get ready for a surprise package from the E.U. and the Russians and your "friends" the U.S.

All those who follow Ms. Rice's comments on Kosovo and Mr. Bush's silence on the Kosovo issue should be aware that the official U.S. position is not yet fully established, while the Russians, ie Mr. Putin, have made their position very, very clear.

(Those talking on behalf of veiled U.S. interests are undertakers, former ambassadors or even ex-generals. That's apt media fodder but does entail only partial truths.)

Do you believe the U.S. will go head on against Russian interests when they need to broker deals regarding more important issues such as Iran etc.

Meanwhile, the E.U. is trying to push the block into a united front to support Kosovo's quasi-independence.

But this will definitely fail, otherwise there would be no need to raise the spectre of "war" by Rehn.

Spain, Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus, Hungary, Romania and even the U.K., France, and Belgium have no interest to trigger border dispute debates. And rest assured, they will come should their governments back Kosovo independence. [The U.S. of course would very much like that. But they can go without it, I belive.]

All Kosovans can hope for is a special status solution that would give them quasi-independence in a much more diluted form than what Ahtissari is proposing.

What it acutally means is a continuation of the status quo. Maybe even Belgrade would accept that under the condition that talks will have to continue.

Should Kosovans oppose that idea beligerently - which Holbrooke is sure they will do and Rehn is suggesting - that would mean the end for the dream of independence.

I guess that Kosovan leaders are fully aware of that.

But there is still an ugly power fight going on within Kosovo. And whoever cries loudest for fully-fledged independence will prevail and rule. A sad prospect for ALL people living in Kosovo.

Ceku will be wise enough to sell any compromise at the UN as independence, even if it is only a Kosovo football team wearing an international banner and not the black double-headed eagle.

Kosovans have failed to concentrate on economic improvements in the past 7 years. Instead, the power elite has banked on talk about independence and any rulers' fate hinges on that question.

An economcally viable Kosovo with stronger economic ties to Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Greece etc. would have helped the Kosovan case much more.

Instead, Kosovo is maybe worse off then during the 1980s in the old Yugoslavia, when government money helped keep roads intact, power supplies steady and people partly employed. But people dream of independence as if that would change their lives.

While Kosovo is lost to Serbia for the time being, and I personally believe they should not try to fold it back into Serbia as long as Albanians and Serbs see themselves as diametrically opposed beings, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will become a state in its own right.

Independence per se is not a goal worth striving for.

Peace, economic prosperity and the freedom to move and think are more important.

All issues, Kosovans have igored in the recent past since neither media nor politics have embraced European values fully. Rather, lashing out against minorities, hate talk etc. fill the headlines.

Time is running out for Kosovo's independence. But Kosovo has the chance to win it if they embrace European values quickly, if they educate their people to stop look back and look forward.

But, to be honest, I very much doubt that to happen anytime soon. Unless per capita income is above $5000, economic interests and European values are good for a stale breakfast talk. But what to do in the afternoon?)

Who started WWI again because I think I forgot? (Art, Thursday, 22 March, 2007, 07:18)

Let me remind you, Austro-Hungary and Germany started WWI.

Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip shot that killed Archduke Ferdinand of Austro Hungaria ignited WWI in 1915.

Austro-Hungary than created a 10 point ultimatum to the Serbian Government which infringed on the sovereignty of Serbia.(Very smiliar to the Rambouillet Ultimatum in 1999 ) It was promptly rejected by Nikola Pasic, foreigh minister of the Serbian Government.

Every diplomatic black and red book from every major country offer no proof that the Serbian Government was connected to APIS or the Black Hand Society. Tankosic recruited ten Bosnian Serbs to carry out the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand who recently annexed Bosnia/Herzegovina.

Irretubutable proof is offered when Alexander Karedjeordjevic the I ordered the execution of Colonel Dragutin Demitriejevic AKA Apis who was promptly shot by Serbian Military Tribunal.

One thing the Serbs do not forget is retreating through the Albanian mountains and being attacked by Albanians who harrased the Serbian lines as they made their way into the Salonika Front in 1915 to live and fight another day. The Greeks don't forget the seizure of Northern Epirus either.

To Achilleas:

If Northen Epirus had greek majority population, I would be the first to give my vote to join to Greece. But unfortunaletely for the greeks that region is inhabited by albanians with only few thousands of greek community and with a large of southern epiriotes population who identufy themselfs as albanian chams and were expelled from southern Epirus from greeks. Regarding Kosova, what is good for serbians to keep this territory of 90% alanians within their borders?!!!!!

The idea that giving Kosovo independence will turn the Balkans into a utopia are wrong.

It will breed unrest among ALbanians in Macedonia and Presevo valley in Serbia right outside Kosovo. There will be chaos in Macedonia and Serbia among the albanian populations.

Rehn is absolutely right there will be chaos, so what does that mean? Altogether now.... COMPROMISE. Yes, folks, compromise should eliminate this spectre of chaos and war everyone seems to be warning of, yet no one seems to be ready to avoid. You can't force a settlement down the throat of a sovereign state and expect it to roll over and obey and NOT avoid some repercussions. You can't envision the international arena just the way you like it and expect that to be the compromise. Belgrade and Pristina will have to make some serious concessions and sacrifices in order to reach an agreement. Perhaps increasing the number of Serb municipalities, increasing the level of Serb legislative representation, or mandating early entry for Serbia and Kosovo in the EU. I know neither side will totally get what it wants.

I can't say exactly what compomise should or would entail. What I do know is that Serbia should not be expected to accept a proposal against its will, while simultaneously be expected to be an obedient servant to the whims of the EU. I think we tried something like this one time in the past. Didn't it take place in Versailles in 1918 or something???

Mike, Serbia has no sovereignty over Kosovo so there is no sovereignty lost.
The little sovereignty Serbia had in Kosovo was lost when it attacked its own people.

I don't think I can make that any simpler for you to understand.

Mike, I appreciate what you are saying, but why should Serbia give up 15% of its territory at all? They should by all means offer autonomy, but when the 1999 war ended Resolution 1244 was signed and ratified by the UN.
This means that Kosovo remains part of Serbian territory under international law. Despite the image being painted by people like Holbroke and Wisner, it is not 'radicals' in Serbia who wish to keep Kosovo, but virtually every single Serbian living there or in the diaspora. Plus many other non Serbs in the international community who are strongly opposed.
Forcing any type of compromise (ie. independence) will be an absolute disaster on many different levels.
It will kick off a regional war. Don't forget that WWI and WWII started in the Balkans.

All to those people who preach for COMPROMISE: There is no little pregancy in this world. Either a woman is pregnant or is not, can't be just a little pregnant. The same thing with Kosova. Either give indipendence or not. You can't find a COMPROMISE in the middle of independence and autonomy.

To Art. Kosovo is still legally part of Serbia. Maybe in only name and little else, but it's still legally part of Serbia. You can't deny that. Saying "The little sovereignty Serbia had in Kosovo was lost when it attacked its own people" is an interpretation - your interpretation, and unless you carry tremendous weight at the UN, it's still that. An interpretation. Serbia will only lose sovereignty after the UN officially mandates it, not because you or anyone else thinks otherwise.

Alban/Tirana - Of course compromise can occur beyond the independence/no independence dichotomy. Pristina can offer real and sincere cooperation with the Serb minority beyond empty words that are more for the ears of international donors than Serbs. Serbs can agree to start trusting their Albanian counterparts if and when they feel their own security and well being is insured. Independence should not, I repeat not, mean Albanian victory over Serbian defeat.

You want real compromise to start fast? Have the US threaten to withdraw its blank check foreign policy towards Pristina and have them stand up on their own. That should ruffle more than a few feathers.

To Art

Actually, Serbia does have sovereignty over Kosovo & Metohija, otherwise why would everyone be so concerned with what Serbia will do regarding "independence". The fact of the matter is; a portion of Serbian territory is currently under occupation.

To Alban/Tirana

This situation resembles a ZIT thats about to make a nasty mess, not a birth.

Yes Kate you're right. Who started WWI again because I think I forgot? Furthermore virtually every Serb in Serbia knows that Kosovo is a lost cause.

Art,

A small number of Serbia and it's people thought it a lost cause but you forget that millions voted for the consitution in which Kosovo & Metohija was stated as a integral part of Serbia. Beyond that the UN also voted in 1244 reconfirmimg that only 8 years ago - what has changed since then other than attacks against all non-Albanains!

New talks, new realisation, new compromise! What is the alternative - old hate, old violence and old status quo!

It's time that a lasting solution that is agreeable to all is found.

To Mr Albana/Tirana:

Well since there can be no compromise between autonomy and independence, and since the Greeks of Northern Epirus, Agioi Saranta, Argyrokastro, Dropolis, (and various other cities, (with their apparent greek toponyms)) have neither of the above, we will arrange/demand the immediate independence of Northern Epirus where more than 200,000 Greeks have been living under oppression since 1945.

Thank you in advance, Albana/Tirana for that.

What goes round, goes all around.

well well well, you guys are funny, its like there is a elephant in the room and you pretending that is not, just because you don't want to see it!
So the same with Kosovo, its going towards independence, and some of the Serb Commentators talking about compromise, continued talks etc..Kosovo de facto is independent and soon it will be de jure whether it will be through new UNSC resolution, or through Kosovo's Parliament (I also read that Kosovo's Parliament has to declare its Independence because UN dont declare countries as independent states, they do recognize them after they declare independent themselves), but, that doesn't matter anymore. We never trusted Europe, they where against us for many many years because of strong Serbian propaganda and lies about us being "terrorist", "separatist", "fundamentalist", and what not....But, with help of USA and Europe started to realize that the mistakes they done in 1913 letting Kosovo outside Albania should not happen again!
To Princip I'll say the only compromise (that you want so much to happen) that is happening is Kosovo can't join either Albania or Serbia. Kosovo and Kosovars (albanians, serbs, romas,turks, bosnians,gorans,etc) should be left alone to build their state, economy and their relationships towards EU together with Serbia and Albania as Kosovo's first neighbors!

Dear Kosovans:

Get ready for a surprise package from the E.U. and the Russians and your "friends" the U.S.

All those who follow Ms. Rice's comments on Kosovo and Mr. Bush's silence on the Kosovo issue should be aware that the official U.S. position is not yet fully established, while the Russians, ie Mr. Putin, have made their position very, very clear.

(Those talking on behalf of veiled U.S. interests are undertakers, former ambassadors or even ex-generals. That's apt media fodder but does entail only partial truths.)

Do you believe the U.S. will go head on against Russian interests when they need to broker deals regarding more important issues such as Iran etc.

Meanwhile, the E.U. is trying to push the block into a united front to support Kosovo's quasi-independence.

But this will definitely fail, otherwise there would be no need to raise the spectre of "war" by Rehn.

Spain, Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus, Hungary, Romania and even the U.K., France, and Belgium have no interest to trigger border dispute debates. And rest assured, they will come should their governments back Kosovo independence. [The U.S. of course would very much like that. But they can go without it, I belive.]

All Kosovans can hope for is a special status solution that would give them quasi-independence in a much more diluted form than what Ahtissari is proposing.

What it acutally means is a continuation of the status quo. Maybe even Belgrade would accept that under the condition that talks will have to continue.

Should Kosovans oppose that idea beligerently - which Holbrooke is sure they will do and Rehn is suggesting - that would mean the end for the dream of independence.

I guess that Kosovan leaders are fully aware of that.

But there is still an ugly power fight going on within Kosovo. And whoever cries loudest for fully-fledged independence will prevail and rule. A sad prospect for ALL people living in Kosovo.

Ceku will be wise enough to sell any compromise at the UN as independence, even if it is only a Kosovo football team wearing an international banner and not the black double-headed eagle.

Kosovans have failed to concentrate on economic improvements in the past 7 years. Instead, the power elite has banked on talk about independence and any rulers' fate hinges on that question.

An economcally viable Kosovo with stronger economic ties to Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Greece etc. would have helped the Kosovan case much more.

Instead, Kosovo is maybe worse off then during the 1980s in the old Yugoslavia, when government money helped keep roads intact, power supplies steady and people partly employed. But people dream of independence as if that would change their lives.

While Kosovo is lost to Serbia for the time being, and I personally believe they should not try to fold it back into Serbia as long as Albanians and Serbs see themselves as diametrically opposed beings, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will become a state in its own right.

Independence per se is not a goal worth striving for.

Peace, economic prosperity and the freedom to move and think are more important.

All issues, Kosovans have igored in the recent past since neither media nor politics have embraced European values fully. Rather, lashing out against minorities, hate talk etc. fill the headlines.

Time is running out for Kosovo's independence. But Kosovo has the chance to win it if they embrace European values quickly, if they educate their people to stop look back and look forward.

But, to be honest, I very much doubt that to happen anytime soon. Unless per capita income is above $5000, economic interests and European values are good for a stale breakfast talk. But what to do in the afternoon?)

Who started WWI again because I think I forgot? (Art, Thursday, 22 March, 2007, 07:18)

Let me remind you, Austro-Hungary and Germany started WWI.

Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip shot that killed Archduke Ferdinand of Austro Hungaria ignited WWI in 1915.

Austro-Hungary than created a 10 point ultimatum to the Serbian Government which infringed on the sovereignty of Serbia.(Very smiliar to the Rambouillet Ultimatum in 1999 ) It was promptly rejected by Nikola Pasic, foreigh minister of the Serbian Government.

Every diplomatic black and red book from every major country offer no proof that the Serbian Government was connected to APIS or the Black Hand Society. Tankosic recruited ten Bosnian Serbs to carry out the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand who recently annexed Bosnia/Herzegovina.

Irretubutable proof is offered when Alexander Karedjeordjevic the I ordered the execution of Colonel Dragutin Demitriejevic AKA Apis who was promptly shot by Serbian Military Tribunal.

One thing the Serbs do not forget is retreating through the Albanian mountains and being attacked by Albanians who harrased the Serbian lines as they made their way into the Salonika Front in 1915 to live and fight another day. The Greeks don't forget the seizure of Northern Epirus either.

To Achilleas:

If Northen Epirus had greek majority population, I would be the first to give my vote to join to Greece. But unfortunaletely for the greeks that region is inhabited by albanians with only few thousands of greek community and with a large of southern epiriotes population who identufy themselfs as albanian chams and were expelled from southern Epirus from greeks. Regarding Kosova, what is good for serbians to keep this territory of 90% alanians within their borders?!!!!!