negotiations in vienna are not giving any results.
Serbia keeps claiming Kosovo as its part and it is very funny, Mexico sold lousiana to USA, what if Mexico claims Louisiana now?
Well if there's no compromise then the status quo will have to do. The 'powers that be' can't go changing borders on an adhoc basis to pacify one of the protagonists. Kosovo is Serbian property and it is only Serbia that can negotiate its status/sale, third parties can only offer their assistance. It is worth the Kosovo Albanians noting that Serbia will always have a claim on Kosovo regardless of what the international community says or does.
Since the nature of these postings rely mostly on wishful thinking and not on fact, allow me to add my own wishful thinking. I would like to see a situation that limits (preferably to 0) civilian victims of armed conflict - not only in the Balkans but everywhere. Sounds a bit candy-ass, I know, but that's the way it is. The outcome of the Metohija and Dukajin issue, while, of course, mostly affecting those who reside there, also affects the rest of the world. The reason is the "world view thing", which I consider to be very real and very relevant. Why should the discussion be presented as limiting itself (or, in fact, be limited to) the Serb and Albanian points of view? Just as in the breakup of the SFRY, external forces representing fundamentally different "world view of the powerful nations" are at work here, too. On one side, we have clear support for a unipolar world. On the other side we have clear resistance to that. I'd like the discussion on Dukajin and Metohija to be expanded to foresee how support for unipolar, bipolar, multipolar or some hybrid might lead to fewer innocent victims. Am I dreaming? Which world view arrangement will lead to the least amount of global resources invested in supporting the "fomenting rebellions / filling the vacuum" cycle? Personally, I want my country to spend more of its resources on sorting out internal affairs. Any constructive thoughts out there? Thanks.
Nikshala wrote:
"all other western European countries, support Ahtisaaris plan which grants independece. "
They support Athisaari's plan, only so the problem can go away..Independence, autonomy, sovereignty, Kosovo/a, Dardania.....
Whatever you call it.
Unfortunately, for the ordinary folks, some of these countries aren't looking at long term issues and commitments..
Most countries really don't care about Kosovo's independence. If anything, i'm under the impression that Europe wants Serbia to start her engines up and running...
And in the meanwhile, EU and IC can babysit, rather than burdening Serbia with the impossible task of economic lordship over the K-Albanians...(Monetarily speaking of course)..
"Every country apart from the ones you mentioned above (russia, ghana, congo, slovakia, indonesia) support the plan, even Montenegro will in the end.
(nikshala, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 17:56)"
As a Montenegrin, I strongly oppose Ahtisaari's ill conceived plan for a variety of reasons. Poor Njegos must be turning over in his grave!
I get offended by this kind of formulations. I don`t think you have read anything I have wrote here. Maybe you are the one who is hard-line nationalist. Earlier you wrote here that Albanians in Kosovo should be deported to Albania.
thanks for the compliment but if all that you have to say against my comment is that I copy and paste which I assure you I do very little of then I am happy that you get my message and have little but to agree.
UNSC will be the final arbitrator and it is clear that the plan A-htisarri will be subjected to considerable change most importantly for it not to be "futile & Counterproductive" in other words retains Serbia's territorial sovereignty as obliged by 1244 - even Wisner hinted this the other week and yet many still say they will be celebrating and eating cake!
Nikshala - you entirely miss the point The US & UK need 7 more Yes votes and as it stands it is plan A-htisarri has no chance - .
That leaves us with the fact that autonmy is what is being discussed by Ahtisarri - the method in which the ethnic-Albanians will be able to rule themselves (overseen by the EU) within Serbia's invioble territory.
Hope that cake has been returned or eating at least - it must be getting stale otherwise and clearly now May is still another 2 months away. At least the Serbian elections can't be used as an excuse for delaying the "inevitable independence" - I wonder what it is this time?
?????, if this is a victory for Serbs, then why are you supporting it. I would think a hard-line nationalist like you, wouldnt want to see a "Serbia Victory"?? There is only one reasonable solution, and thats autonomy!!
???? wrote:
"In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West). "
Considering Kosovo's economy, and the Wests' previous help, it's only up to Serbia to give the Serbs the handouts required for survival.
Well... whatever the viewpoint, it's obvious to see that.....like endagered species, the host country/people will be held to a higher accountability to assure it's sustanance..
Sort of like North American Indians and land claims..Sensitive issues that usually end in favour for the minority. The majority can only clench their teeth and bare it.
You want democracy? Man, you're in for an awakening..
Mr. Princip I have been reading comments on b92 and I always see your name on every article and guess what, every one of themis copy and paste, you sound like former Kosovo President Rugova that he used to say the same thing over and over whenever he met someone and/or in press conferences.You sound just like him. If you think that Kosovo will not get its Independence, you are not living in the same planet.
There is no doubt Kosovo is going to be independent but there will be no winner since Albanians and Serbs will almost be equal despite the fact Serbs only constitute only 5 or 7 % of the population.
The Ahtisaari solution is a compromise and will give Serbs much more rights than they ever have had in Kosovo while Albanians will almost the same rights they had prior to 1989.
In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West).
Many Serbs here are presenting Ahtisaari`s package as a total victory for Albanians something which is not true. If Serbs are more rational and read what the document says and what is possible to achieve they will realize the document is actually also a victory for Kosovo Serbs.
I hope Albanians protest peacefully in Pristina tomorrow and do not become victims of provocations that will benefit nationalists in Serbia represented by Kostunica.
good point but we all know that there is still the discussions that will take place within the UNSC because it is "futile & Counterproductive " to present plan A-htisarri and a new one with the obligation to 1244 as pointed out by Wisner. This will be incorporated into the final draft that the Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon will present and will have nothing to do with Ahtisarri - you could say they will be voting on plan B-an Ki-Moon as opposed to plan A-htisarri.
Many ethnic-Albanians won't like this but as the plan stands there is no way it will get 9 affirmatives (Affirmative votes means a yes not abstain or no) irrespective of veto's. Those who have said they will not support a resolution that ignores the international law of inviobility of a state - China, Russia, Slovakia, Congo, Ghana and now Indonesia
"Our basic position is that we respect territorial integrity of a country once it is acknowledged by international community," Indonesian Foreign Ministry director general for Americas and Europe Eddy Haryadi said here Tuesday.
Only the US & UK are certain affirmatives - 7 away from being accepted even if Russia and China abstain!!!
I suppose the wrangling begins between the big boys - the 5 permannet members all with veto's and the 10 who are just as important in obtaining 9 affirmatives. If the US & UK don't want to undermine even further their credibility they will be very quick to ensure inviobility is respected - April vote if not then they will have changed their minds by May or else the last chance saloon is well and truly closed.
good point but we all know that there is still the discussions that will take place within the UNSC because it is "futile & Counterproductive " to present plan A-htisarri and a new one with the obligation to 1244 as pointed out by Wisner. This will be incorporated into the final draft that the Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon will present and will have nothing to do with Ahtisarri - you could say they will be voting on plan B-an Ki-Moon as opposed to plan A-htisarri.
Many ethnic-Albanians won't like this but as the plan stands there is no way it will get 9 affirmatives (Affirmative votes means a yes not abstain or no) irrespective of veto's. Those who have said they will not support a resolution that ignores the international law of inviobility of a state - China, Russia, Slovakia, Congo, Ghana and now Indonesia
"Our basic position is that we respect territorial integrity of a country once it is acknowledged by international community," Indonesian Foreign Ministry director general for Americas and Europe Eddy Haryadi said here Tuesday.
Only the US & UK are certain affirmatives - 7 away from being accepted even if Russia and China abstain!!!
I suppose the wrangling begins between the big boys - the 5 permannet members all with veto's and the 10 who are just as important in obtaining 9 affirmatives. If the US & UK don't want to undermine even further their credibility they will be very quick to ensure inviobility is respected - April vote if not then they will have changed their minds by May or else the last chance saloon is well and truly closed.
Mr. Princip I have been reading comments on b92 and I always see your name on every article and guess what, every one of themis copy and paste, you sound like former Kosovo President Rugova that he used to say the same thing over and over whenever he met someone and/or in press conferences.You sound just like him. If you think that Kosovo will not get its Independence, you are not living in the same planet.
There is no doubt Kosovo is going to be independent but there will be no winner since Albanians and Serbs will almost be equal despite the fact Serbs only constitute only 5 or 7 % of the population.
The Ahtisaari solution is a compromise and will give Serbs much more rights than they ever have had in Kosovo while Albanians will almost the same rights they had prior to 1989.
In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West).
Many Serbs here are presenting Ahtisaari`s package as a total victory for Albanians something which is not true. If Serbs are more rational and read what the document says and what is possible to achieve they will realize the document is actually also a victory for Kosovo Serbs.
I hope Albanians protest peacefully in Pristina tomorrow and do not become victims of provocations that will benefit nationalists in Serbia represented by Kostunica.
?????, if this is a victory for Serbs, then why are you supporting it. I would think a hard-line nationalist like you, wouldnt want to see a "Serbia Victory"?? There is only one reasonable solution, and thats autonomy!!
???? wrote:
"In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West). "
Considering Kosovo's economy, and the Wests' previous help, it's only up to Serbia to give the Serbs the handouts required for survival.
Well... whatever the viewpoint, it's obvious to see that.....like endagered species, the host country/people will be held to a higher accountability to assure it's sustanance..
Sort of like North American Indians and land claims..Sensitive issues that usually end in favour for the minority. The majority can only clench their teeth and bare it.
You want democracy? Man, you're in for an awakening..
thanks for the compliment but if all that you have to say against my comment is that I copy and paste which I assure you I do very little of then I am happy that you get my message and have little but to agree.
UNSC will be the final arbitrator and it is clear that the plan A-htisarri will be subjected to considerable change most importantly for it not to be "futile & Counterproductive" in other words retains Serbia's territorial sovereignty as obliged by 1244 - even Wisner hinted this the other week and yet many still say they will be celebrating and eating cake!
Nikshala - you entirely miss the point The US & UK need 7 more Yes votes and as it stands it is plan A-htisarri has no chance - .
That leaves us with the fact that autonmy is what is being discussed by Ahtisarri - the method in which the ethnic-Albanians will be able to rule themselves (overseen by the EU) within Serbia's invioble territory.
Hope that cake has been returned or eating at least - it must be getting stale otherwise and clearly now May is still another 2 months away. At least the Serbian elections can't be used as an excuse for delaying the "inevitable independence" - I wonder what it is this time?
I get offended by this kind of formulations. I don`t think you have read anything I have wrote here. Maybe you are the one who is hard-line nationalist. Earlier you wrote here that Albanians in Kosovo should be deported to Albania.
"Every country apart from the ones you mentioned above (russia, ghana, congo, slovakia, indonesia) support the plan, even Montenegro will in the end.
(nikshala, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 17:56)"
As a Montenegrin, I strongly oppose Ahtisaari's ill conceived plan for a variety of reasons. Poor Njegos must be turning over in his grave!
Nikshala wrote:
"all other western European countries, support Ahtisaaris plan which grants independece. "
They support Athisaari's plan, only so the problem can go away..Independence, autonomy, sovereignty, Kosovo/a, Dardania.....
Whatever you call it.
Unfortunately, for the ordinary folks, some of these countries aren't looking at long term issues and commitments..
Most countries really don't care about Kosovo's independence. If anything, i'm under the impression that Europe wants Serbia to start her engines up and running...
And in the meanwhile, EU and IC can babysit, rather than burdening Serbia with the impossible task of economic lordship over the K-Albanians...(Monetarily speaking of course)..
Since the nature of these postings rely mostly on wishful thinking and not on fact, allow me to add my own wishful thinking. I would like to see a situation that limits (preferably to 0) civilian victims of armed conflict - not only in the Balkans but everywhere. Sounds a bit candy-ass, I know, but that's the way it is. The outcome of the Metohija and Dukajin issue, while, of course, mostly affecting those who reside there, also affects the rest of the world. The reason is the "world view thing", which I consider to be very real and very relevant. Why should the discussion be presented as limiting itself (or, in fact, be limited to) the Serb and Albanian points of view? Just as in the breakup of the SFRY, external forces representing fundamentally different "world view of the powerful nations" are at work here, too. On one side, we have clear support for a unipolar world. On the other side we have clear resistance to that. I'd like the discussion on Dukajin and Metohija to be expanded to foresee how support for unipolar, bipolar, multipolar or some hybrid might lead to fewer innocent victims. Am I dreaming? Which world view arrangement will lead to the least amount of global resources invested in supporting the "fomenting rebellions / filling the vacuum" cycle? Personally, I want my country to spend more of its resources on sorting out internal affairs. Any constructive thoughts out there? Thanks.
Well if there's no compromise then the status quo will have to do. The 'powers that be' can't go changing borders on an adhoc basis to pacify one of the protagonists. Kosovo is Serbian property and it is only Serbia that can negotiate its status/sale, third parties can only offer their assistance. It is worth the Kosovo Albanians noting that Serbia will always have a claim on Kosovo regardless of what the international community says or does.
negotiations in vienna are not giving any results.
Serbia keeps claiming Kosovo as its part and it is very funny, Mexico sold lousiana to USA, what if Mexico claims Louisiana now?
good point but we all know that there is still the discussions that will take place within the UNSC because it is "futile & Counterproductive " to present plan A-htisarri and a new one with the obligation to 1244 as pointed out by Wisner. This will be incorporated into the final draft that the Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon will present and will have nothing to do with Ahtisarri - you could say they will be voting on plan B-an Ki-Moon as opposed to plan A-htisarri.
Many ethnic-Albanians won't like this but as the plan stands there is no way it will get 9 affirmatives (Affirmative votes means a yes not abstain or no) irrespective of veto's. Those who have said they will not support a resolution that ignores the international law of inviobility of a state - China, Russia, Slovakia, Congo, Ghana and now Indonesia
"Our basic position is that we respect territorial integrity of a country once it is acknowledged by international community," Indonesian Foreign Ministry director general for Americas and Europe Eddy Haryadi said here Tuesday.
Only the US & UK are certain affirmatives - 7 away from being accepted even if Russia and China abstain!!!
I suppose the wrangling begins between the big boys - the 5 permannet members all with veto's and the 10 who are just as important in obtaining 9 affirmatives. If the US & UK don't want to undermine even further their credibility they will be very quick to ensure inviobility is respected - April vote if not then they will have changed their minds by May or else the last chance saloon is well and truly closed.
Mr. Princip I have been reading comments on b92 and I always see your name on every article and guess what, every one of themis copy and paste, you sound like former Kosovo President Rugova that he used to say the same thing over and over whenever he met someone and/or in press conferences.You sound just like him. If you think that Kosovo will not get its Independence, you are not living in the same planet.
There is no doubt Kosovo is going to be independent but there will be no winner since Albanians and Serbs will almost be equal despite the fact Serbs only constitute only 5 or 7 % of the population.
The Ahtisaari solution is a compromise and will give Serbs much more rights than they ever have had in Kosovo while Albanians will almost the same rights they had prior to 1989.
In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West).
Many Serbs here are presenting Ahtisaari`s package as a total victory for Albanians something which is not true. If Serbs are more rational and read what the document says and what is possible to achieve they will realize the document is actually also a victory for Kosovo Serbs.
I hope Albanians protest peacefully in Pristina tomorrow and do not become victims of provocations that will benefit nationalists in Serbia represented by Kostunica.
?????, if this is a victory for Serbs, then why are you supporting it. I would think a hard-line nationalist like you, wouldnt want to see a "Serbia Victory"?? There is only one reasonable solution, and thats autonomy!!
???? wrote:
"In a way Serbs will be the winners. They will be privileged in Kosovo and receive a lot of money from different corners (pension from Kosovo, pension from Serbia, aid from the West). "
Considering Kosovo's economy, and the Wests' previous help, it's only up to Serbia to give the Serbs the handouts required for survival.
Well... whatever the viewpoint, it's obvious to see that.....like endagered species, the host country/people will be held to a higher accountability to assure it's sustanance..
Sort of like North American Indians and land claims..Sensitive issues that usually end in favour for the minority. The majority can only clench their teeth and bare it.
You want democracy? Man, you're in for an awakening..
thanks for the compliment but if all that you have to say against my comment is that I copy and paste which I assure you I do very little of then I am happy that you get my message and have little but to agree.
UNSC will be the final arbitrator and it is clear that the plan A-htisarri will be subjected to considerable change most importantly for it not to be "futile & Counterproductive" in other words retains Serbia's territorial sovereignty as obliged by 1244 - even Wisner hinted this the other week and yet many still say they will be celebrating and eating cake!
Nikshala - you entirely miss the point The US & UK need 7 more Yes votes and as it stands it is plan A-htisarri has no chance - .
That leaves us with the fact that autonmy is what is being discussed by Ahtisarri - the method in which the ethnic-Albanians will be able to rule themselves (overseen by the EU) within Serbia's invioble territory.
Hope that cake has been returned or eating at least - it must be getting stale otherwise and clearly now May is still another 2 months away. At least the Serbian elections can't be used as an excuse for delaying the "inevitable independence" - I wonder what it is this time?
I get offended by this kind of formulations. I don`t think you have read anything I have wrote here. Maybe you are the one who is hard-line nationalist. Earlier you wrote here that Albanians in Kosovo should be deported to Albania.
"Every country apart from the ones you mentioned above (russia, ghana, congo, slovakia, indonesia) support the plan, even Montenegro will in the end.
(nikshala, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 17:56)"
As a Montenegrin, I strongly oppose Ahtisaari's ill conceived plan for a variety of reasons. Poor Njegos must be turning over in his grave!
Nikshala wrote:
"all other western European countries, support Ahtisaaris plan which grants independece. "
They support Athisaari's plan, only so the problem can go away..Independence, autonomy, sovereignty, Kosovo/a, Dardania.....
Whatever you call it.
Unfortunately, for the ordinary folks, some of these countries aren't looking at long term issues and commitments..
Most countries really don't care about Kosovo's independence. If anything, i'm under the impression that Europe wants Serbia to start her engines up and running...
And in the meanwhile, EU and IC can babysit, rather than burdening Serbia with the impossible task of economic lordship over the K-Albanians...(Monetarily speaking of course)..
Since the nature of these postings rely mostly on wishful thinking and not on fact, allow me to add my own wishful thinking. I would like to see a situation that limits (preferably to 0) civilian victims of armed conflict - not only in the Balkans but everywhere. Sounds a bit candy-ass, I know, but that's the way it is. The outcome of the Metohija and Dukajin issue, while, of course, mostly affecting those who reside there, also affects the rest of the world. The reason is the "world view thing", which I consider to be very real and very relevant. Why should the discussion be presented as limiting itself (or, in fact, be limited to) the Serb and Albanian points of view? Just as in the breakup of the SFRY, external forces representing fundamentally different "world view of the powerful nations" are at work here, too. On one side, we have clear support for a unipolar world. On the other side we have clear resistance to that. I'd like the discussion on Dukajin and Metohija to be expanded to foresee how support for unipolar, bipolar, multipolar or some hybrid might lead to fewer innocent victims. Am I dreaming? Which world view arrangement will lead to the least amount of global resources invested in supporting the "fomenting rebellions / filling the vacuum" cycle? Personally, I want my country to spend more of its resources on sorting out internal affairs. Any constructive thoughts out there? Thanks.
Well if there's no compromise then the status quo will have to do. The 'powers that be' can't go changing borders on an adhoc basis to pacify one of the protagonists. Kosovo is Serbian property and it is only Serbia that can negotiate its status/sale, third parties can only offer their assistance. It is worth the Kosovo Albanians noting that Serbia will always have a claim on Kosovo regardless of what the international community says or does.
negotiations in vienna are not giving any results.
Serbia keeps claiming Kosovo as its part and it is very funny, Mexico sold lousiana to USA, what if Mexico claims Louisiana now?
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