Poland supports Ahtisaari’s plan

deputy foreign minister Pavel Koval stressed that Poland was against postponements of Kosovo status settlement and against any partition of the province, PAP Agency reports.

Koval accused the official Belgrade of an obstructive approach taken in the negotiations with Kosovo Albanians. “We believe that Belgrade’s attempts to thwart Ahtisaari’s efforts do not Serve Serbia’s interests. Serbia should handle reality and focus on the activities which will bring it closer to the EU”, Koval said.

There is no doubt, such a rational stance will be embraced in the end from other countries (including russia), too.

cheers,

Thank you Poland. Thank you USA. Thank you UK. Thank you to all countries in the world that support the will of people of Kosovo.

Right now Serbia is confused and do not really know what is in their interest. Serbia (the establishment) has "personality problems". They keep denying the crimes committed by some Serbs in Serbia’s name but at the same time they know they are denying something that really happened.

I know that after some 10 years almost all Serbs will agree it was right to give Kosovo independent since a democratic Serbia can not govern Kosovo. I do not think Serbs would give up Serbia’s fragile democracy in order to govern Kosovo. They can off course try but the consequences will be: no democracy and no Kosovo.

I think it is very sad to see Serb negotiators at Hague act like racists (not proper word maybe since there are no differences when it comes to race, but no better word exists). They all the time talk about only Serbs, and for me seems like they have given up Kosovo and now are trying to create mini Republika Srpska`s, something which is against the interests of both Albanians and Serbs in the long term. Or maybe they believe Albanians in Kosovo will disappear in seconds if Serbia again is allowed to rule Kosovo. Have no information about who stands behind Serbia’s strategy but they have completely failed in every aspect, and are in many ways confirming some prejudices the West had and have towards Serbian politicians. Albanians have followed Western game rules and are now being awarded with independence. Serbia’s government inspired by Ahmadinejad has chosen aggressivity and racism and will be punished.

Jovan or Princip? you comment please!

One of you was very keen in pointing out a while ago, that Kosova was not going to get independence because Poland was against it.

Like I said, slowly they will all come round and accept it.

Not that Poland's stance matters anyway.

Albanians need people like Koshtunica and Seselj.

All they do is harm Serbia, and push us more toward independence.

Ahh Poland...or as they call them American Trojan donkey in EU:-) They see Serbia as Russian friend and cause they hate Russia they are saying this now. Anyway,this guy should ask first his own president about his country position! They made such a "fantastic" living and working conditions in Poland that millions of their population escaped to UK etc. Anyway,if i have to choose between Poland and Russia-i don't have any doubts!

So interesting! Wasn't Poland against it right two weeks ago? A step in the right direction! Stability first!

Actually ??????? not all of the people in the US and UK support/ed you at all, either in the bombing of Serbia or granting independence.
We just didn't have a voice while our worthy leaders were trotting around the world talking about 'democracy'.
!!!!!!!!

nikshala,

the Poles are indecisive - before Christmas they were 100% behind Ahtisarri, then after 100% against now of coures ethey are saying we go along with the plan. They probably know that the plan as it stands currently - plan A-htisarri stands no chance of being presented without being reformulated to include the inviobility of Serbia. I guess they will be even happier when the final plan - plan B-an Ki-Moon is passed in the UNSC which again will enshrine Serbia's territorial integrity. Poland won't be voting but Russia, China, US, UK, France, Italy,Slovakia, South Africa, Ghana, DR Congo, Peru, Panama, Qatar, Indonesia all will and any resolution will require 9 AFFIRMATIVE votes.

Do you think any of the smaller nations will be pleased to sign up to the US & UK proposal of viobility of international Borders?

Sui Generis is ok when you are the bully boys (US & UK) or part of their clique in the global palyground but when you are not I think you will have no doubt how to vote. Even Indonesia has said it respects Serbia's territorial integrity in Kosovo & Metohija.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20070228145839&irec=25

Kate,

The majority of ppl in the UK and US overwhelmingly supported both the Bombing as the only option to get rid of evil and the independence as the only alternative to towards stability of the region.

You‘re thinking is similar to Seselj (residing in Hague) regarding issues over Kosovo/a . Hate is a disease . It can be cured.

oh wow! :)

one of those who were against the breach of international law is shifting it´s stance?

certainly a great victory for the k-albanians...

come on guys, I know you´re desperately craving for "news" like this one, but, let´s be honest, how much is this worth?

not only that it is a deputy foreign minister, instead the president, ...what should be subject of some thinking on your side, there is even beside that doubtful "shift" the need for a real shift of ALL of them within the EU, remember?
and then, still there won´t be an independent KiM if there is no consensus within the UNSC...
so, it stays the old story, it´s way too early to say something definite, since the key-players are still holding the cards.

but I can see how carefully you have noticed my words a few weeks ago, thats good. that shows that you are only acting to be proud and confident about the matter.

very good.

you will very likely be very loyal serbian citizens one day, when the international community ends your childish dreams of a greater Albania.

and finally you will realize that broad autonomy is more than other minorities elsewhere in the world are enjoying.
but it seems as you need a lot of time to realize that...
what let´s me come to the conclusion that the only problem for the K-albanians today are the K-albanians themselves.

Noel - You compare me to Seselj because I opposed my taxes being used to bomb fellow Europeans in Serbia?? What a joke!!
Why would the people in the UK or the US 'aspire to crush evil'? Are we living in a Marvel comics sketch?
Do you really believe that was what the whole thing was/ is about? The pages of the song sheet have turned 'Noel Malcolm', and nobody believes that dross about good and evil.
I am not Serbian or Albanian, I do not wish anyone harm, but bombing Serbia and trying to illegally extract Kosovo is just wrong in my eyes.

Jovan,

it seems to me that you believe on what you write (i.e. that the K-Albanians will be some day very loyal citizens of Serbia). You're a very interesting fellow. You'll have a bitter wake-up shortly. Cheers

Kate,
You should be proud that your tax money were used to save inocent civilian lives.

Koval is the deputy Foreign minister, Kaczynriski is the President. I don’t even know who the deputy foreign minister of the US is. Are they even in the same political party? Its sort of like one of Draskovic’s deputies disagreeing with Kostunica isn’t it? Does it mean anything besides Poland has a functioning democracy?

The majority of ppl in the UK and US overwhelmingly supported both the Bombing as the only option to get rid of evil and the independence as the only alternative to towards stability of the region.

(Noel UK,, 2 March 2007, 14:25)

The majority of the US public were ill informed of what happened in Kosovo. The same cannot be said of England where public opinion was turning against the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia.

Bombing was the only option to try to secure independance and steal Kosovo from Serbia , this can be clearly seen from the Rambouillet agreement, the bankrolling of the KLA/UCK by the US proxies including Holbrook and the planting of the KLA Mercenary and war criminal Agim Ceku .

If you want a true history of all of Yugoslavia , the emminent historian is Alex Dragnich.

If you need to read a true depiction of the dismantlement and destruction of Yugoslavia, read Lord David Owen's Book, the Balkan Odyssey.

If you want a true depiciton of what happened in the ground in Bosnia/Herzegovina & particularly around Sarejevo. Read factual accounts my former UN Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie, UK former UN General Colin Rose, or French General Morillion.

If you want to continue to read fiction, keep reading Noel Malcolm.

Best regards,
Konstantin

Hermon - my tax money was used to take innocent lives. Besides which, would you be happy if your govt told you that they were spending your taxes on yet more war? Not to defend your own nation, but to actually destroy some else's? Instead of using money to build badly needed hospitals, schools or housing? I don't think so.

Here is the problem with Albanians. All they want is independence. Why? Albanians in Kosovo think that if they get independence they are going to become rich , live in prosperity and be happily ever after. The key solution is that everyone needs to focus on economy and economic recovery, investments, and bussines planning because that will solve the poor standards of living. Most of the people will be employed and will not have time to talk about politics 24 hours a day. Serbs and Albanians will be much happier if they had jobs and enough to provide for their family instead of wasting time on independence. By the way, if every minority in the world would want independence just because they living standards are not as high, or they have been discriminated against, by the end of the year there would be 1,000 more new countries. What hurts Albanians is that they hate Serbia and just because of that they want to separate. There are thousands of ethnic minorities in the United States of America with similar problems in their lives but they are not asking for independence, they are actually involved in USA government and fighting for their ecobomic and social rights so they can be equal as everyone else.

Princip

one more thing. I'll break it down for you.

UK, US, Belgium, France, Italy will definetly vote for the plan. So that 5

Panama, Peru, Condo, Ghana, Qatar, South Africa are US & UK b**ches and they will do what their pimp tells them to do. So thats another 6 votes,

Now we are to 11 votes for the plan.

Slovakia- well, lets see if they dare oppose US or UK.

Indonesia - they might vote against.

China - will support the plan or abstain.

So thats 12 or 13 votes.

Russia - is the only one that potentially could stop the plan from getting approved, but they will very likely abstain.

Poland means nothing, they have no VETO in the UNSC so what is the point in listening to what they think. It was only yesterday that indonesia supported Serbia. As for telling Serbia to face reality and enter EU integration it poses the question, Who wants Serbia in the EU more? is it the EU or Serbia? my guess is Europe are desparate for Serbia to join.

konstantin - That was really well put. I agree entirely.

It's great that Poland shifted its stance. Now Serbia is left with Ghana, Indonesia.

Now I am not surprised of Ghana, but Indonesia, yes. And surely its 500 milion muslim population is a great support for Serbia and a disappointment for Kosovo.

That's why I call all Kosovars to completely reject Islam. Many Islamic countries have been backstabing Kosovo for the simple reason that we love USA and Israel. So, why keep their fundamentalist religion.

Kosova should massivly renounce this fanatic philosophy and return to its pre-Ottoman faith.

Mike,

If you live in the States as I do, then, you'd surely know that US never killed US citizens just for not being Anglo-Saxon. So, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt your honesty on this subject.

Rubbish Noel. No opinion poll put UK support for bombing Serbia over 20%. The Manchester Evening News (Britain's 2nd largest regional paper and my own city's newspaper) actually but the figure at 8%. Just as with Iraq the British public didn't have a chance to say 'no' regarding the aggression against Serbia.

The name Albanian has become a byword in the UK for criminal activity. Very fitting indeed.

I totally agree with Kate. I feel no pride in my taxes funding acts of destruction and indefensible killing. Should i be happy that my taxes bought cluster bombs that were dropped on the market place in Nis? Should i cheer at my hard earnt cash funding a brutal attack upon a convoy of Albanian tractors?

albanians don't seem to realize that KiM is Serbian land, and they are trying to steal something that is not theirs.
Doing something by force will never work.
Trying to create another albania on Serbian soil is a very big mistake!

Mike wrote;

“Here is the problem with Albanians. All they want is independence. Why?”

For very good reasons, two of which are very important;
I-security
II-stability,
The rest of benefits follow including economy, which are to my opinion less important in short terms.

"If you live in the States as I do, then, you'd surely know that US never killed US citizens just for not being Anglo-Saxon. So, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt your honesty on this subject.
(Frank Gaxhi,, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 19:17)"
As recently as the 1950's Government institutions were implicated in the deaths and murders of African-Americans who were opposed to Segregation. Internment camps for the Japanese, and in the 1970's Federal Marshals committed some very atrocious actions against the Native American population, not to mention the absolute Genocide committed against them not very long ago.

What is wrong with you people? Stop denying what happened in Kosovo. Albanians were being ethnically cleansed; nothing more and nothing less.

So Anthony, just because there is such a bad prejudice against Albanains in the UK doesn't make what happened any less factual.

I don't think that 800,000 Albanians just decided to flee for no reason, and 10,000 just decided to kill themselves, or over 3,000 just decided to run away and now be called "missing" (although they too are burries somewhere in Belgrade).

It's despicable how you people deny all of this. You might as well deny the Holocaust.

Now that Poland is for it, count the RUSSIANS to definitely be against it!! That is FOR SURE!!

everyone should know by now that serbia has its own history books... they prefer a certain kind

a kind that suits them
all others don't matter

sadly they haven't realized reading those books gets them into bad habits and deep trouble

kosovo independence!

another thing..
to: kate

you should run for office in the UK so you can support serbia

serbia will do a good job to assist with any propaganda you will need help with

"If you want a true depiciton of what happened in the ground in Bosnia/Herzegovina & particularly around Sarejevo. Read factual accounts my former UN Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie, UK former UN General Colin Rose, or French General Morillion."

konstantin is right,
"Trusted Mole" by Milos Stankovic is a fascinating book (He worked for Rose), I suggest all those interested in what went on behind the scenes read it. Very informative.

nikshala

I disagree with you about China. They are likely to veto unless Serbia say yes. Why? Because of Taiwan and Tibet.

One more thing, I'm not sure if the deputy foreign minister of Poland's words can override the president's.

Some people insist on repeating that it is the will of the majority of people in Kosovo to become independent.

But Mr.Pavel Koval & Co should understand that Kosovo is part of Serbia and it is the will of the majority of people of Serbia, including Kosovo, that it shall remain so.

To force Kosovo to become independent against the will of the people is a crime against democracy, not to mention the Helsinki Act from 1975 and UN resolution 1244.

But I guess Mr.Koval doesn't care about such worldly things...like international law!

Nikshala,

in reply to your post at 18:10 - I would like to remind you of a comment that you posted only a few hours earlier;

If Serbia is relying on Congo, Ghana, Indonesia and Slovakia, well, god help you my friend.
(nikshala, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 14:19)

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39905

- suddenly you realise the implications of the futillity and counterproductive nature of plan A-htisarri and come up with a totally bogus and ill thought out posting of how the votes will be accounted.

Like I said the US & UK as the bully boys and their clique in the global playground are happy to enforce where ever they like Sui Generis of a resolution that sets a toltally ILLEGAL precedent of the VIOBILITY of INTERNATIONAL BORDERS but do you really think that any of the other UNSC 15 will be voting for such an ILLEGAL concept? Really?

Russia, China, Slovakia, Ghana, DR Congo and now Indonesia have said NO.

That leaves S.Africa, Peru, Panama, Qatar, Belguim, France, Italy. None of which have come out either way yet publically on the VIOBILITY of INTERNATIONAL BORDERS but I am certain they will want to uphold the UN's foundations and the Helsinki final act - else fear their borders might be next!

Yes France, Italy and Belguim are behind Ahtisarri's negotiations and see this as the best way forward but only the US & UK have suggested they are happy with imposing it. Don't count on Belgium they have elections on the 10th June and there is a large seperatist movement currently spearheaded by the Vlaams Belang party. I suggest you do your own research but expect an abstention unless of course Belgiums political leadership are happy for it's own seperation. The same goes for Italy.

In which case that means plan A-htisarri & these current further discussions are all about the level of self rule by ethnic-Albanians in the autonomous Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija and overseen by the EU-MIK to keep you guys in check.

Another hint if you need it; Plan A-htisarri will be FINALISED & published Oct. - ratified Nov. independece before end of 2006 - did not happen - excuse Serbian elections!
DRAFT Plan will be presented but will not be readjusted 23rd Jan - delayed till 2nd Feb and another round of talks will take place 10th Feb but will not change plan. However, talks delayed and now we are told Ahtisarri will make some adjustments!!!

But when will these plans be presented to the UNSC? Not till April or possibly May - what is the excuse now? - I guess they are known to be unacceptable since they are ILLEGAL.

- The plan as it is considering that it is ILLEGAL is FUTILE and will NOT be PASSED in UNSC - unless of course it respects Serbia's invoiable internationally recognised borders.

Good luck & God Bless and I apologise for the length of post.

don't think that 800,000 Albanians just decided to flee for no reason,(Art, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 22:16)

If you really think that 800,000 people fled Kosovo , than please print your source and figures. FYROM was the only country where the majority of Albanians fled during the bombing and it was a far cry from 800,000.

Yes, 6MIL jews died from the horrible Nazi Holocaust and true genocide that occured. Its astounding you would use this as a comparison a civil war in Kosovo. It's an affront to the memory of those that died at the hands of the Nazi's and Fascists during WWII.

Gregovic, I don't need to print a receit for you right now because it was well documented. And BY THE WAY the majority of Albanians fled to Albania. Remember after a certain amount (I think it was 250,000) Macedonia closed its borders.
Up to 500,000 Kosovars found refuge in Albania, as far south as Vlora and Saranda. I was THERE.

Gregovic, I don't need to print a receit for you right now because it was well documented. (Art, Sunday, 4 March, 2007, 09:29)

Then stop printing usubstantiated heresay. Can your eye really count 800,000 Albanians who fled the country within only 78 bombs of bombing. Think about it, is it even logistally possible for that many people to move in such a short time.

You know the answer to that one.

deputy foreign minister Pavel Koval stressed that Poland was against postponements of Kosovo status settlement and against any partition of the province, PAP Agency reports.

Koval accused the official Belgrade of an obstructive approach taken in the negotiations with Kosovo Albanians. “We believe that Belgrade’s attempts to thwart Ahtisaari’s efforts do not Serve Serbia’s interests. Serbia should handle reality and focus on the activities which will bring it closer to the EU”, Koval said.

There is no doubt, such a rational stance will be embraced in the end from other countries (including russia), too.

cheers,

Thank you Poland. Thank you USA. Thank you UK. Thank you to all countries in the world that support the will of people of Kosovo.

Right now Serbia is confused and do not really know what is in their interest. Serbia (the establishment) has "personality problems". They keep denying the crimes committed by some Serbs in Serbia’s name but at the same time they know they are denying something that really happened.

I know that after some 10 years almost all Serbs will agree it was right to give Kosovo independent since a democratic Serbia can not govern Kosovo. I do not think Serbs would give up Serbia’s fragile democracy in order to govern Kosovo. They can off course try but the consequences will be: no democracy and no Kosovo.

I think it is very sad to see Serb negotiators at Hague act like racists (not proper word maybe since there are no differences when it comes to race, but no better word exists). They all the time talk about only Serbs, and for me seems like they have given up Kosovo and now are trying to create mini Republika Srpska`s, something which is against the interests of both Albanians and Serbs in the long term. Or maybe they believe Albanians in Kosovo will disappear in seconds if Serbia again is allowed to rule Kosovo. Have no information about who stands behind Serbia’s strategy but they have completely failed in every aspect, and are in many ways confirming some prejudices the West had and have towards Serbian politicians. Albanians have followed Western game rules and are now being awarded with independence. Serbia’s government inspired by Ahmadinejad has chosen aggressivity and racism and will be punished.

Jovan or Princip? you comment please!

One of you was very keen in pointing out a while ago, that Kosova was not going to get independence because Poland was against it.

Like I said, slowly they will all come round and accept it.

Not that Poland's stance matters anyway.

Albanians need people like Koshtunica and Seselj.

All they do is harm Serbia, and push us more toward independence.

Ahh Poland...or as they call them American Trojan donkey in EU:-) They see Serbia as Russian friend and cause they hate Russia they are saying this now. Anyway,this guy should ask first his own president about his country position! They made such a "fantastic" living and working conditions in Poland that millions of their population escaped to UK etc. Anyway,if i have to choose between Poland and Russia-i don't have any doubts!

So interesting! Wasn't Poland against it right two weeks ago? A step in the right direction! Stability first!

Actually ??????? not all of the people in the US and UK support/ed you at all, either in the bombing of Serbia or granting independence.
We just didn't have a voice while our worthy leaders were trotting around the world talking about 'democracy'.
!!!!!!!!

nikshala,

the Poles are indecisive - before Christmas they were 100% behind Ahtisarri, then after 100% against now of coures ethey are saying we go along with the plan. They probably know that the plan as it stands currently - plan A-htisarri stands no chance of being presented without being reformulated to include the inviobility of Serbia. I guess they will be even happier when the final plan - plan B-an Ki-Moon is passed in the UNSC which again will enshrine Serbia's territorial integrity. Poland won't be voting but Russia, China, US, UK, France, Italy,Slovakia, South Africa, Ghana, DR Congo, Peru, Panama, Qatar, Indonesia all will and any resolution will require 9 AFFIRMATIVE votes.

Do you think any of the smaller nations will be pleased to sign up to the US & UK proposal of viobility of international Borders?

Sui Generis is ok when you are the bully boys (US & UK) or part of their clique in the global palyground but when you are not I think you will have no doubt how to vote. Even Indonesia has said it respects Serbia's territorial integrity in Kosovo & Metohija.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp?fileid=20070228145839&irec=25

Kate,

The majority of ppl in the UK and US overwhelmingly supported both the Bombing as the only option to get rid of evil and the independence as the only alternative to towards stability of the region.

You‘re thinking is similar to Seselj (residing in Hague) regarding issues over Kosovo/a . Hate is a disease . It can be cured.

oh wow! :)

one of those who were against the breach of international law is shifting it´s stance?

certainly a great victory for the k-albanians...

come on guys, I know you´re desperately craving for "news" like this one, but, let´s be honest, how much is this worth?

not only that it is a deputy foreign minister, instead the president, ...what should be subject of some thinking on your side, there is even beside that doubtful "shift" the need for a real shift of ALL of them within the EU, remember?
and then, still there won´t be an independent KiM if there is no consensus within the UNSC...
so, it stays the old story, it´s way too early to say something definite, since the key-players are still holding the cards.

but I can see how carefully you have noticed my words a few weeks ago, thats good. that shows that you are only acting to be proud and confident about the matter.

very good.

you will very likely be very loyal serbian citizens one day, when the international community ends your childish dreams of a greater Albania.

and finally you will realize that broad autonomy is more than other minorities elsewhere in the world are enjoying.
but it seems as you need a lot of time to realize that...
what let´s me come to the conclusion that the only problem for the K-albanians today are the K-albanians themselves.

Noel - You compare me to Seselj because I opposed my taxes being used to bomb fellow Europeans in Serbia?? What a joke!!
Why would the people in the UK or the US 'aspire to crush evil'? Are we living in a Marvel comics sketch?
Do you really believe that was what the whole thing was/ is about? The pages of the song sheet have turned 'Noel Malcolm', and nobody believes that dross about good and evil.
I am not Serbian or Albanian, I do not wish anyone harm, but bombing Serbia and trying to illegally extract Kosovo is just wrong in my eyes.

Jovan,

it seems to me that you believe on what you write (i.e. that the K-Albanians will be some day very loyal citizens of Serbia). You're a very interesting fellow. You'll have a bitter wake-up shortly. Cheers

Kate,
You should be proud that your tax money were used to save inocent civilian lives.

Koval is the deputy Foreign minister, Kaczynriski is the President. I don’t even know who the deputy foreign minister of the US is. Are they even in the same political party? Its sort of like one of Draskovic’s deputies disagreeing with Kostunica isn’t it? Does it mean anything besides Poland has a functioning democracy?

The majority of ppl in the UK and US overwhelmingly supported both the Bombing as the only option to get rid of evil and the independence as the only alternative to towards stability of the region.

(Noel UK,, 2 March 2007, 14:25)

The majority of the US public were ill informed of what happened in Kosovo. The same cannot be said of England where public opinion was turning against the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia.

Bombing was the only option to try to secure independance and steal Kosovo from Serbia , this can be clearly seen from the Rambouillet agreement, the bankrolling of the KLA/UCK by the US proxies including Holbrook and the planting of the KLA Mercenary and war criminal Agim Ceku .

If you want a true history of all of Yugoslavia , the emminent historian is Alex Dragnich.

If you need to read a true depiction of the dismantlement and destruction of Yugoslavia, read Lord David Owen's Book, the Balkan Odyssey.

If you want a true depiciton of what happened in the ground in Bosnia/Herzegovina & particularly around Sarejevo. Read factual accounts my former UN Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie, UK former UN General Colin Rose, or French General Morillion.

If you want to continue to read fiction, keep reading Noel Malcolm.

Best regards,
Konstantin

Hermon - my tax money was used to take innocent lives. Besides which, would you be happy if your govt told you that they were spending your taxes on yet more war? Not to defend your own nation, but to actually destroy some else's? Instead of using money to build badly needed hospitals, schools or housing? I don't think so.

Here is the problem with Albanians. All they want is independence. Why? Albanians in Kosovo think that if they get independence they are going to become rich , live in prosperity and be happily ever after. The key solution is that everyone needs to focus on economy and economic recovery, investments, and bussines planning because that will solve the poor standards of living. Most of the people will be employed and will not have time to talk about politics 24 hours a day. Serbs and Albanians will be much happier if they had jobs and enough to provide for their family instead of wasting time on independence. By the way, if every minority in the world would want independence just because they living standards are not as high, or they have been discriminated against, by the end of the year there would be 1,000 more new countries. What hurts Albanians is that they hate Serbia and just because of that they want to separate. There are thousands of ethnic minorities in the United States of America with similar problems in their lives but they are not asking for independence, they are actually involved in USA government and fighting for their ecobomic and social rights so they can be equal as everyone else.

Princip

one more thing. I'll break it down for you.

UK, US, Belgium, France, Italy will definetly vote for the plan. So that 5

Panama, Peru, Condo, Ghana, Qatar, South Africa are US & UK b**ches and they will do what their pimp tells them to do. So thats another 6 votes,

Now we are to 11 votes for the plan.

Slovakia- well, lets see if they dare oppose US or UK.

Indonesia - they might vote against.

China - will support the plan or abstain.

So thats 12 or 13 votes.

Russia - is the only one that potentially could stop the plan from getting approved, but they will very likely abstain.

Poland means nothing, they have no VETO in the UNSC so what is the point in listening to what they think. It was only yesterday that indonesia supported Serbia. As for telling Serbia to face reality and enter EU integration it poses the question, Who wants Serbia in the EU more? is it the EU or Serbia? my guess is Europe are desparate for Serbia to join.

konstantin - That was really well put. I agree entirely.

It's great that Poland shifted its stance. Now Serbia is left with Ghana, Indonesia.

Now I am not surprised of Ghana, but Indonesia, yes. And surely its 500 milion muslim population is a great support for Serbia and a disappointment for Kosovo.

That's why I call all Kosovars to completely reject Islam. Many Islamic countries have been backstabing Kosovo for the simple reason that we love USA and Israel. So, why keep their fundamentalist religion.

Kosova should massivly renounce this fanatic philosophy and return to its pre-Ottoman faith.

Mike,

If you live in the States as I do, then, you'd surely know that US never killed US citizens just for not being Anglo-Saxon. So, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt your honesty on this subject.

Rubbish Noel. No opinion poll put UK support for bombing Serbia over 20%. The Manchester Evening News (Britain's 2nd largest regional paper and my own city's newspaper) actually but the figure at 8%. Just as with Iraq the British public didn't have a chance to say 'no' regarding the aggression against Serbia.

The name Albanian has become a byword in the UK for criminal activity. Very fitting indeed.

I totally agree with Kate. I feel no pride in my taxes funding acts of destruction and indefensible killing. Should i be happy that my taxes bought cluster bombs that were dropped on the market place in Nis? Should i cheer at my hard earnt cash funding a brutal attack upon a convoy of Albanian tractors?

albanians don't seem to realize that KiM is Serbian land, and they are trying to steal something that is not theirs.
Doing something by force will never work.
Trying to create another albania on Serbian soil is a very big mistake!

Mike wrote;

“Here is the problem with Albanians. All they want is independence. Why?”

For very good reasons, two of which are very important;
I-security
II-stability,
The rest of benefits follow including economy, which are to my opinion less important in short terms.

"If you live in the States as I do, then, you'd surely know that US never killed US citizens just for not being Anglo-Saxon. So, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt your honesty on this subject.
(Frank Gaxhi,, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 19:17)"
As recently as the 1950's Government institutions were implicated in the deaths and murders of African-Americans who were opposed to Segregation. Internment camps for the Japanese, and in the 1970's Federal Marshals committed some very atrocious actions against the Native American population, not to mention the absolute Genocide committed against them not very long ago.

What is wrong with you people? Stop denying what happened in Kosovo. Albanians were being ethnically cleansed; nothing more and nothing less.

So Anthony, just because there is such a bad prejudice against Albanains in the UK doesn't make what happened any less factual.

I don't think that 800,000 Albanians just decided to flee for no reason, and 10,000 just decided to kill themselves, or over 3,000 just decided to run away and now be called "missing" (although they too are burries somewhere in Belgrade).

It's despicable how you people deny all of this. You might as well deny the Holocaust.

Now that Poland is for it, count the RUSSIANS to definitely be against it!! That is FOR SURE!!

everyone should know by now that serbia has its own history books... they prefer a certain kind

a kind that suits them
all others don't matter

sadly they haven't realized reading those books gets them into bad habits and deep trouble

kosovo independence!

another thing..
to: kate

you should run for office in the UK so you can support serbia

serbia will do a good job to assist with any propaganda you will need help with

"If you want a true depiciton of what happened in the ground in Bosnia/Herzegovina & particularly around Sarejevo. Read factual accounts my former UN Canadian General Lewis Mackenzie, UK former UN General Colin Rose, or French General Morillion."

konstantin is right,
"Trusted Mole" by Milos Stankovic is a fascinating book (He worked for Rose), I suggest all those interested in what went on behind the scenes read it. Very informative.

nikshala

I disagree with you about China. They are likely to veto unless Serbia say yes. Why? Because of Taiwan and Tibet.

One more thing, I'm not sure if the deputy foreign minister of Poland's words can override the president's.

Some people insist on repeating that it is the will of the majority of people in Kosovo to become independent.

But Mr.Pavel Koval & Co should understand that Kosovo is part of Serbia and it is the will of the majority of people of Serbia, including Kosovo, that it shall remain so.

To force Kosovo to become independent against the will of the people is a crime against democracy, not to mention the Helsinki Act from 1975 and UN resolution 1244.

But I guess Mr.Koval doesn't care about such worldly things...like international law!

Nikshala,

in reply to your post at 18:10 - I would like to remind you of a comment that you posted only a few hours earlier;

If Serbia is relying on Congo, Ghana, Indonesia and Slovakia, well, god help you my friend.
(nikshala, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 14:19)

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39905

- suddenly you realise the implications of the futillity and counterproductive nature of plan A-htisarri and come up with a totally bogus and ill thought out posting of how the votes will be accounted.

Like I said the US & UK as the bully boys and their clique in the global playground are happy to enforce where ever they like Sui Generis of a resolution that sets a toltally ILLEGAL precedent of the VIOBILITY of INTERNATIONAL BORDERS but do you really think that any of the other UNSC 15 will be voting for such an ILLEGAL concept? Really?

Russia, China, Slovakia, Ghana, DR Congo and now Indonesia have said NO.

That leaves S.Africa, Peru, Panama, Qatar, Belguim, France, Italy. None of which have come out either way yet publically on the VIOBILITY of INTERNATIONAL BORDERS but I am certain they will want to uphold the UN's foundations and the Helsinki final act - else fear their borders might be next!

Yes France, Italy and Belguim are behind Ahtisarri's negotiations and see this as the best way forward but only the US & UK have suggested they are happy with imposing it. Don't count on Belgium they have elections on the 10th June and there is a large seperatist movement currently spearheaded by the Vlaams Belang party. I suggest you do your own research but expect an abstention unless of course Belgiums political leadership are happy for it's own seperation. The same goes for Italy.

In which case that means plan A-htisarri & these current further discussions are all about the level of self rule by ethnic-Albanians in the autonomous Serbian province of Kosovo & Metohija and overseen by the EU-MIK to keep you guys in check.

Another hint if you need it; Plan A-htisarri will be FINALISED & published Oct. - ratified Nov. independece before end of 2006 - did not happen - excuse Serbian elections!
DRAFT Plan will be presented but will not be readjusted 23rd Jan - delayed till 2nd Feb and another round of talks will take place 10th Feb but will not change plan. However, talks delayed and now we are told Ahtisarri will make some adjustments!!!

But when will these plans be presented to the UNSC? Not till April or possibly May - what is the excuse now? - I guess they are known to be unacceptable since they are ILLEGAL.

- The plan as it is considering that it is ILLEGAL is FUTILE and will NOT be PASSED in UNSC - unless of course it respects Serbia's invoiable internationally recognised borders.

Good luck & God Bless and I apologise for the length of post.

don't think that 800,000 Albanians just decided to flee for no reason,(Art, Friday, 2 March, 2007, 22:16)

If you really think that 800,000 people fled Kosovo , than please print your source and figures. FYROM was the only country where the majority of Albanians fled during the bombing and it was a far cry from 800,000.

Yes, 6MIL jews died from the horrible Nazi Holocaust and true genocide that occured. Its astounding you would use this as a comparison a civil war in Kosovo. It's an affront to the memory of those that died at the hands of the Nazi's and Fascists during WWII.

Gregovic, I don't need to print a receit for you right now because it was well documented. And BY THE WAY the majority of Albanians fled to Albania. Remember after a certain amount (I think it was 250,000) Macedonia closed its borders.
Up to 500,000 Kosovars found refuge in Albania, as far south as Vlora and Saranda. I was THERE.

Gregovic, I don't need to print a receit for you right now because it was well documented. (Art, Sunday, 4 March, 2007, 09:29)

Then stop printing usubstantiated heresay. Can your eye really count 800,000 Albanians who fled the country within only 78 bombs of bombing. Think about it, is it even logistally possible for that many people to move in such a short time.

You know the answer to that one.