Cultural heritage on agenda in Vienna

Bit late now! Where were the 'protectors' when the mobs were ripping apart centuries old heritage a couple of years ago?
The heritage in Kosovo is important not just to the province and the state, but also the whole of Europe.

Lets hope that the ethnic-Albanian leadership realise this is the best opportunity for a real compromise that will bring a lasting peace and final solution - it's time they recognise that the US can not promise somthing they can't deliver.

Without the compromise ensuring international law is respected by the obligation of respecting Serbia's sovereignity it is clear that plan A-thisarri in it's current form will not be acceptable in the UNSC. In fact to present it as it stands will be "futile & counterproductive" - Lavrov.

Russia is again saying that it has misgivings over the plan A-thisarri and question his intentions in drawing it up

"Frankly, we are worried at the absence of any desire to meet the legitimate concerns of Belgrade," Lavrov.

Russia has all to gain form a veto - they will force the US into a dillema - ILLEGAL recognition or backing down and explaining the false promise. Unless of course they allow the precedence to be applied in any other circumstance - but then again the Chinese will step in at that point over it's own sovereignity.

Other speculators are already discussing what happens given that plan A- is dead in the water would you believe;

"An alternative, he argues, is the maintenance of the current undefined status under international surveillance. Not only the US and Russia but also member states are of diverging opinions concerning the independence of Kosovo explains Hassner (emeritus research director at the Centre for International Studies and Research (CERI) in Paris)
[
http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-influence-serbia-overestimated/article-162034
]

- Staus Quo never had so many come backs!!!

Kosovo Albanians should ask for protection of their cultural heritage, to rebuild the only mosque in Northern part of Mitrovica that was burn and totally destroyed from Serbs. During the war more than hundred mosques were burn and destroyed from SERBS and who pay the damages? serbia didn't.

I agree with SMART.

Nobody did pay.

SMART - you can't pay damages for the irreplaceable. If the mosques are heritage buildings then I am sure they will be on the list.

I am sure, those mosques will be built up again, with money of the serbian state, right after the moment the K-albanians let their independence-fanatism behind...
everything will change afterwards, the Albanians will rule themselves, the serbian borders will stay untouched and all together will develop towards european-level-standards.

there´s only one thing left, the Albanians still dream of a greater Albania. they will come down from their high horse, I guess.

OH Princip, you are a character. Every time there is an article you are the first one to comment with your copy and paste method. You have not said anything new for very long time.
By the way Princip , you beating a dead horse, because the Independence is looming and there is no way anybody can stop it.
Cultural heritage in KOSOVA'S territory would be preserved as at has for centuries, there is no need to worry.

Jovan you are absolutaly wrong, about Kosovar's wanting to create Greater Albania.I can garanty you if we hold a referendum not even 2% will vote to join Albania.
Please, don't become another Princip to copy and paste( independence -fanatism). wake up and smell the Independence of serbia from KOSOVA.

Jovan K-Albanians will never give up on INDEPNDENCE

Mr,Williams,

you fail to understand that cultural heritage has been untouched throughout the centuries, and only started to be endangered after the Albanians were let loose.

so, please do not "analyze" other posters here, if you are not capable of analyzing the events taking place in KiM, to which you are referring to in the albanized version "kosova" which clearly shows your lack of understanding.

please inform yourself, but if I may suggest, not in the yellow press or pamphlets of some individuals like Mr.Malcolm, but in serious works of commonly accepted scientists.

thanks.

R Williams - thanks for the compliment but it remains to be the case that Independence is forgone, on the contrary it looks all the more certain that following the final Draft of plan A-htisarri being presented to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon there will be a further series of discussions (amongst the 5 permanent UNSC members) in order that a final document is prepared. Yes, the Serbian and ethnic-Albanians might not be party to this but Russia has said it will not be party to independence and it will ensure the obligation to respect the sovereignty of Serbia.

Even the US Ambassador Frank G. Wisner, - Special Representative for Kosovo Status recently accepted that the

"Security Council will consider the wishes of the majority in Kosovo and accept the obligation to respect the sovereignty of Serbia stipulated by UN Resolution 1244"

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39487

- this obligation will be submitted in the final document in order that there is no VETO - plan B-an Ki-Moon. Looks like win-win is being formulated behind the scenes.

The current discussions (plan A-htisarri) are all about how the ethnic-Albanians will be able to administer themselves and the limits of their self-rule within Serbia. The EU will be able to administer the province locally over seeing the protections against non-Albanians and their property - of course with Serbian consent that it's sovereignty is maintained - Serbia's compromise.

- you might not agree with my view (as will many others) but I suppose we don't have long to see what happens in April. What is for sure is that 2006 was the last chance for a possible independence initiative spearheaded by the US but it failed.

Mr Williams does sound very British, but you are betrayed by your pronouns I'm afraid (the same as I just can't get those bloody endings in languages where even the noun changes!!). Back to the drawing board.
Plus even the most rabid Serbophobe in the UK/ US would still call the province KosovO.

At the very least, The Serbian Church should be given Vatican level status in Kosovo, if not the right to stay within Serbia. It represents the Cradle of Serbian Civilization and the very foundation of our ethnic Identity.

Regardless of the outcome of the Kosovo status talks Serbia MUST change Kosovar perception of our Historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity.

"We are trying to implement a civic concept within an independent state based on the individual, the citizen, regardless of their ethnic background."

So why would Serbia be any different?
Reflect in the mirror, and realize Serbian requests are the same as Albanian requests were 10 years ago..

At least it's not at the end of a barrell anymore...

Serbs feeling guilty about their war crimes and showing their true democratic spirit:

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=23282


who says serbs are living in the past?!

Agim wrote:
"can garanty you if we hold a referendum not even 2% will vote to join Albania"..

Unfortunately, nobody's asking you personally. There's bound to be other interests involved, and before you know it, the Tirana brigade will be telling you how to run your business...

Like it or not, all the good mannered and civil people are being used by somebody else's interest..They just decorate the cake a bit differently..

But nonetheless, perceptions on both sides need to be addressed..Everybody seems to be accusing each other about falsehoods, and it doesn't do any good in the long run.

Thanx to sites like B92, this becomes more realistic...

What about the 200 plus mosques(Peje, Gjakova, Vushtrri...) that were destroyed by the serbs when they left Kosova? Nobody talks about The Roman Catholic church of St. Anthony in Gjakova where the Albanian priests and the nuns from the
church were evicted.

I like to thank B92 for letting use comment; I enjoy reading comment and seeing what some people think about an article.

Kate you are so wrong "Plus even the most rabid Serbophobe in the UK/ US would still call the province KosovO." I am in the US and I prefer to call it Kosova, because it is easier to pronoun and it sounds a lot better. Kosovo sound so retarded! Even though it is the league name for known.

Kate one thing I do agree with you “Bit late now! Where were the 'protectors' when the mobs were ripping apart centuries old heritage a couple of years ago?” A couple years ago referring to 1998-9 where them Mobs (Serbs) destroyed so many Non Orthodox Churches and Mosques.

And to Princip, Your comments sound so good with your Win Win, but the reality is that the politician in Belgrade do not share you comments. Look at what Belgrade has done in it last eight years. They are more nationalist known then when Milosevic left office. They adopted a constitution (with less than 40% of actual voters) that is racist agents all non-Serbs.

To Jovan, “there´s only one thing left, the Albanians still dream of a greater Albania” to what I have seen and heard that is just I dream for the Albanians who live out-side of the Balkans. The only problem in the Balkans is the dream of the Serbs with there Greater Serbia!!!

To Matthew, “At the very least, The Serbian Church should be given Vatican level status in Kosovo”. To remind you that, if it was not for the Serbian Church, Milosevic would not of got in Office and there would not be over 200,000 people die with the blessing of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The Serbian Orthodox Church started the wars in Croatia against the Catholics, Iin Bosnia against the Muslims and Catholic, and In Kosova (Kosovo to Kate) against the Albanians (Muslims, Orthodox, and Catholics).

God bless,

have never met a serb before and I have never been to Serbia, but judging from what I am reading lately and from the way you guys are talking here, I dont blame EU for trying to restrict your powers. Your animosity against Europe and all your neighbouring countries, clearly puts you in line with asian countries like China, Russia, North Korea and Iran.
(Moreno, 28 February 2007, 19:20)

Mr Moreno,
The Serbs and Greeks value their freedom above everything else, and that is why they looked up to the United States for a long time, because the US has those same values-Liberty , Freedom and Truth.

In 1941, Yugoslavia overthrew the Prince Paul in a coup de etat and faced the rath of Hitler Lutwaffe in Operation Punishment where Belgrade was bombed in the arly morning hours while people were sleeping.

On the other hand the Fascist Italians under Mussoloni launched an invasion of Greece along with Albania. The Italians also took the lands of Dalmatia and Istria from Hitler Invasion and break up of Yugoslavia.

Serbia will not foresake it's freedom for the EU,UN or anybody else for that matter.

What about the 200 plus mosques(Peje, Gjakova, Vushtrri...) that were destroyed by the serbs when they left Kosova? Nobody talks about The Roman Catholic church of St. Anthony in Gjakova where the Albanian priests and the nuns from the
church were evicted.
(ilir, Wednesday, 28 February, 2007, 19:03)

I dont believe you, please print the list of those mosques and names to be verified. I can easily reproduce for you the over 150 Serbian Orthodox Churches razed to the ground in Kosovo, the damages, and time they were destroyed.

Enough of the propoganda.

Please print the list of those destroyed 200 mosques in Albania.

Thanks

Rebuild EVERYTHING - Serb, Albanian, Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, whatever. If it was destroyed, rebuild it. If it was damaged, repair it. If it was displaced, resettle it. If it was separated, reunite it. Such endeavors would be the first symbolic signs of reconciliation and cooperation.

Agim, I am afraid I must tell you that you are the one who is wrong here.

I have seen the grave-sites of some kla-fighters, with big memorial-stones with engraved outlines of "greater albania", so it is really not worth the effort to sell me something different!

I think it would be a mistake to base the concept of a Serb entity on the church issue alone. The church is one reason for the current politics, but not the only one.

The churches should function within a municipal authority and not be given the vatican solution. Next, mosques will have to be given the same thing and the athiests will want to give the same status to their meeting houses!

Secular solutions are not (necessarily) anti-religious - they are needed to represent the will of the people on matters that are not religious - and to look after the infrastructure within which the church functions. The church should be within a community but should not be allowed to be the sole managers of it.

Therefore, I would ague that if the churches are to be given a special status, then there has to be a municipal status that goes hand-in-hand with it.

Within either autonomy or independence there is scope for different managements to overlap in their different domains - Albanians do their thing, and Serbs do theirs - some times the separation will geographic, sometimes it will be functional, but there is no reason why the geography and the function have to coincide exactly. If each community is willing to act democratically within their own domains and yet allow the other to do the same, that is a model of behaviour much to be desired.

to George:

there´s nothing more to say to you except: you are so terribly wrong, it hurts!

to Moreno:
if you want to inform yourself about the current matter KiM or the Balkans in general, you should not read those kindergarden-struggles here, but some serious scientific works.
if this is already enough for you to build an opinion about "the Serbs", I am really afraid you are not the kind of person I would like to talk to.

for a start:

www.kosovocompromise.com

“if it was not for the Serbian Church, Milosevic would not of got in Office (George - USA, Wednesday, 28 February, 2007, 19:54)”

George, Milosevic was a communist and rose to power through the Communist Party (Not exactly a religion friendly political theory). Stambolic was originally his mentor until Milosevic forced him out in 8th Session of the League of Communists of Serbia.

That is how Milosevic got into power.

Please elaborate on what role the Church played in the 8th Session, I’d be really curious to hear it.

“The churches should function within a municipal authority and not be given the Vatican solution. Next, mosques will have to be given the same thing and the athiests will want to give the same status to their meeting houses!”

The SOP is fairly unique the world over and has a special relationship to the Serbian people and their National Identity. No other ethnicity can magically change their ethnic identity by changing their religious affiliation. The SOP represents the very cradle of Serbian civilization and ethnic identity. Its not about religion, but rather who we are as a people. I am very secular myself.

Rather then promote the idea that the SOP should be included in any future partition plan, it seems a reasonable compromise to me to give them Vatican level status, including a UN seat and full autonomy. I think this level of respect for what represents the very core of our identity might just be something that the average Serb could live with. I’m trying to avoid another 600 years of attempting to obtain Kosovo back.

However, if you think Kosovo ought to merely have autonomy and not independence, I would be happy to accept that as a solution as well. Partition would be welcome as well.

The best solution in my mind would be to give the entire region EU membership and treat the various regions like how the US congress does. Even 10 years take a census and reevaluate the voting blocks and regions.

Anyone have a better idea?

it seems a reasonable compromise to me to give them Vatican level status, including a UN seat and full autonomy. (Matthew, Thursday, 1 March, 2007, 21:54)

A good idea, but unrealistic. The Serbian Orthodox Church is under the jurisdiction of Constantiniple or Istanbul in Turkey. The Serbian Orthodox Church is not autocephelus, but part of true Apostelic Chruch of Orthodox Christianity with it's head in Constantinople.

If a city is to be granted similiar status to Rome, than it would be Constantinople, the capital city of the Holy Roman Empire until the schism in 12th century splitting Rome and Constantinople between the western and eastern Holy Roman Empires.

If Kosovo is to become independant, the Serbian Orthdodox monasteries and churches will be at the mercy of the Kosovo Albanian dominated Government.

Matthew, You are right about, Stambolic being originally Milosevic mentor. But the facts are in April 1986 Milosevic was elected chairman of the Belgrade city committee and was at that time one off the biggest opposednent of Nationalism!!! And in April 1987 with the backing of the church he emerged as the leading force in Serbian Politics and the biggest Nationalist. With Stambolic backing, Milosevic was elected New Party Leader, with the narrowest margin in 8th Session of the League of Communists of Serbia. In July 1990 with the adoption of Milosevic New Serbian Constitution He gave the Serbian Orthodox Church great influence in political decisions and in return the Serbian Orthodox Church campaigned for him and in the December 1990 elections Milosevic won with over 80.5% of the vote.

My main point is that the state of Serbia in not separated from the Church and even today with Kostunica in office the Church, has even greater influence in political decisions.

“The Serbian Orthodox Church is under the jurisdiction of Constantiniple or Istanbul in Turkey.”

Konstantin, I think you’re falling into the trap of thinking of it in purely religious tones. The SOP also represents the very foundation of our civilization and the formation of our ethnic identity. So even for a secular Serbian such as myself it holds special meaning. I was not saying the SOP should have Vatican level status for the same reasoning that the Vatican has it, but that the political structure and international rights should be the similar. It’s a practical solution for the issue, however unlikely politically it would be. If Serbia is to propose alternative solutions they need to do it fast.

Bit late now! Where were the 'protectors' when the mobs were ripping apart centuries old heritage a couple of years ago?
The heritage in Kosovo is important not just to the province and the state, but also the whole of Europe.

Lets hope that the ethnic-Albanian leadership realise this is the best opportunity for a real compromise that will bring a lasting peace and final solution - it's time they recognise that the US can not promise somthing they can't deliver.

Without the compromise ensuring international law is respected by the obligation of respecting Serbia's sovereignity it is clear that plan A-thisarri in it's current form will not be acceptable in the UNSC. In fact to present it as it stands will be "futile & counterproductive" - Lavrov.

Russia is again saying that it has misgivings over the plan A-thisarri and question his intentions in drawing it up

"Frankly, we are worried at the absence of any desire to meet the legitimate concerns of Belgrade," Lavrov.

Russia has all to gain form a veto - they will force the US into a dillema - ILLEGAL recognition or backing down and explaining the false promise. Unless of course they allow the precedence to be applied in any other circumstance - but then again the Chinese will step in at that point over it's own sovereignity.

Other speculators are already discussing what happens given that plan A- is dead in the water would you believe;

"An alternative, he argues, is the maintenance of the current undefined status under international surveillance. Not only the US and Russia but also member states are of diverging opinions concerning the independence of Kosovo explains Hassner (emeritus research director at the Centre for International Studies and Research (CERI) in Paris)
[
http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-influence-serbia-overestimated/article-162034
]

- Staus Quo never had so many come backs!!!

Kosovo Albanians should ask for protection of their cultural heritage, to rebuild the only mosque in Northern part of Mitrovica that was burn and totally destroyed from Serbs. During the war more than hundred mosques were burn and destroyed from SERBS and who pay the damages? serbia didn't.

I agree with SMART.

Nobody did pay.

SMART - you can't pay damages for the irreplaceable. If the mosques are heritage buildings then I am sure they will be on the list.

I am sure, those mosques will be built up again, with money of the serbian state, right after the moment the K-albanians let their independence-fanatism behind...
everything will change afterwards, the Albanians will rule themselves, the serbian borders will stay untouched and all together will develop towards european-level-standards.

there´s only one thing left, the Albanians still dream of a greater Albania. they will come down from their high horse, I guess.

OH Princip, you are a character. Every time there is an article you are the first one to comment with your copy and paste method. You have not said anything new for very long time.
By the way Princip , you beating a dead horse, because the Independence is looming and there is no way anybody can stop it.
Cultural heritage in KOSOVA'S territory would be preserved as at has for centuries, there is no need to worry.

Jovan you are absolutaly wrong, about Kosovar's wanting to create Greater Albania.I can garanty you if we hold a referendum not even 2% will vote to join Albania.
Please, don't become another Princip to copy and paste( independence -fanatism). wake up and smell the Independence of serbia from KOSOVA.

Jovan K-Albanians will never give up on INDEPNDENCE

Mr,Williams,

you fail to understand that cultural heritage has been untouched throughout the centuries, and only started to be endangered after the Albanians were let loose.

so, please do not "analyze" other posters here, if you are not capable of analyzing the events taking place in KiM, to which you are referring to in the albanized version "kosova" which clearly shows your lack of understanding.

please inform yourself, but if I may suggest, not in the yellow press or pamphlets of some individuals like Mr.Malcolm, but in serious works of commonly accepted scientists.

thanks.

R Williams - thanks for the compliment but it remains to be the case that Independence is forgone, on the contrary it looks all the more certain that following the final Draft of plan A-htisarri being presented to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon there will be a further series of discussions (amongst the 5 permanent UNSC members) in order that a final document is prepared. Yes, the Serbian and ethnic-Albanians might not be party to this but Russia has said it will not be party to independence and it will ensure the obligation to respect the sovereignty of Serbia.

Even the US Ambassador Frank G. Wisner, - Special Representative for Kosovo Status recently accepted that the

"Security Council will consider the wishes of the majority in Kosovo and accept the obligation to respect the sovereignty of Serbia stipulated by UN Resolution 1244"

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39487

- this obligation will be submitted in the final document in order that there is no VETO - plan B-an Ki-Moon. Looks like win-win is being formulated behind the scenes.

The current discussions (plan A-htisarri) are all about how the ethnic-Albanians will be able to administer themselves and the limits of their self-rule within Serbia. The EU will be able to administer the province locally over seeing the protections against non-Albanians and their property - of course with Serbian consent that it's sovereignty is maintained - Serbia's compromise.

- you might not agree with my view (as will many others) but I suppose we don't have long to see what happens in April. What is for sure is that 2006 was the last chance for a possible independence initiative spearheaded by the US but it failed.

Mr Williams does sound very British, but you are betrayed by your pronouns I'm afraid (the same as I just can't get those bloody endings in languages where even the noun changes!!). Back to the drawing board.
Plus even the most rabid Serbophobe in the UK/ US would still call the province KosovO.

At the very least, The Serbian Church should be given Vatican level status in Kosovo, if not the right to stay within Serbia. It represents the Cradle of Serbian Civilization and the very foundation of our ethnic Identity.

Regardless of the outcome of the Kosovo status talks Serbia MUST change Kosovar perception of our Historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity.

"We are trying to implement a civic concept within an independent state based on the individual, the citizen, regardless of their ethnic background."

So why would Serbia be any different?
Reflect in the mirror, and realize Serbian requests are the same as Albanian requests were 10 years ago..

At least it's not at the end of a barrell anymore...

Serbs feeling guilty about their war crimes and showing their true democratic spirit:

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=23282


who says serbs are living in the past?!

Agim wrote:
"can garanty you if we hold a referendum not even 2% will vote to join Albania"..

Unfortunately, nobody's asking you personally. There's bound to be other interests involved, and before you know it, the Tirana brigade will be telling you how to run your business...

Like it or not, all the good mannered and civil people are being used by somebody else's interest..They just decorate the cake a bit differently..

But nonetheless, perceptions on both sides need to be addressed..Everybody seems to be accusing each other about falsehoods, and it doesn't do any good in the long run.

Thanx to sites like B92, this becomes more realistic...

What about the 200 plus mosques(Peje, Gjakova, Vushtrri...) that were destroyed by the serbs when they left Kosova? Nobody talks about The Roman Catholic church of St. Anthony in Gjakova where the Albanian priests and the nuns from the
church were evicted.

I like to thank B92 for letting use comment; I enjoy reading comment and seeing what some people think about an article.

Kate you are so wrong "Plus even the most rabid Serbophobe in the UK/ US would still call the province KosovO." I am in the US and I prefer to call it Kosova, because it is easier to pronoun and it sounds a lot better. Kosovo sound so retarded! Even though it is the league name for known.

Kate one thing I do agree with you “Bit late now! Where were the 'protectors' when the mobs were ripping apart centuries old heritage a couple of years ago?” A couple years ago referring to 1998-9 where them Mobs (Serbs) destroyed so many Non Orthodox Churches and Mosques.

And to Princip, Your comments sound so good with your Win Win, but the reality is that the politician in Belgrade do not share you comments. Look at what Belgrade has done in it last eight years. They are more nationalist known then when Milosevic left office. They adopted a constitution (with less than 40% of actual voters) that is racist agents all non-Serbs.

To Jovan, “there´s only one thing left, the Albanians still dream of a greater Albania” to what I have seen and heard that is just I dream for the Albanians who live out-side of the Balkans. The only problem in the Balkans is the dream of the Serbs with there Greater Serbia!!!

To Matthew, “At the very least, The Serbian Church should be given Vatican level status in Kosovo”. To remind you that, if it was not for the Serbian Church, Milosevic would not of got in Office and there would not be over 200,000 people die with the blessing of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The Serbian Orthodox Church started the wars in Croatia against the Catholics, Iin Bosnia against the Muslims and Catholic, and In Kosova (Kosovo to Kate) against the Albanians (Muslims, Orthodox, and Catholics).

God bless,

have never met a serb before and I have never been to Serbia, but judging from what I am reading lately and from the way you guys are talking here, I dont blame EU for trying to restrict your powers. Your animosity against Europe and all your neighbouring countries, clearly puts you in line with asian countries like China, Russia, North Korea and Iran.
(Moreno, 28 February 2007, 19:20)

Mr Moreno,
The Serbs and Greeks value their freedom above everything else, and that is why they looked up to the United States for a long time, because the US has those same values-Liberty , Freedom and Truth.

In 1941, Yugoslavia overthrew the Prince Paul in a coup de etat and faced the rath of Hitler Lutwaffe in Operation Punishment where Belgrade was bombed in the arly morning hours while people were sleeping.

On the other hand the Fascist Italians under Mussoloni launched an invasion of Greece along with Albania. The Italians also took the lands of Dalmatia and Istria from Hitler Invasion and break up of Yugoslavia.

Serbia will not foresake it's freedom for the EU,UN or anybody else for that matter.

What about the 200 plus mosques(Peje, Gjakova, Vushtrri...) that were destroyed by the serbs when they left Kosova? Nobody talks about The Roman Catholic church of St. Anthony in Gjakova where the Albanian priests and the nuns from the
church were evicted.
(ilir, Wednesday, 28 February, 2007, 19:03)

I dont believe you, please print the list of those mosques and names to be verified. I can easily reproduce for you the over 150 Serbian Orthodox Churches razed to the ground in Kosovo, the damages, and time they were destroyed.

Enough of the propoganda.

Please print the list of those destroyed 200 mosques in Albania.

Thanks

Rebuild EVERYTHING - Serb, Albanian, Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, whatever. If it was destroyed, rebuild it. If it was damaged, repair it. If it was displaced, resettle it. If it was separated, reunite it. Such endeavors would be the first symbolic signs of reconciliation and cooperation.

Agim, I am afraid I must tell you that you are the one who is wrong here.

I have seen the grave-sites of some kla-fighters, with big memorial-stones with engraved outlines of "greater albania", so it is really not worth the effort to sell me something different!

I think it would be a mistake to base the concept of a Serb entity on the church issue alone. The church is one reason for the current politics, but not the only one.

The churches should function within a municipal authority and not be given the vatican solution. Next, mosques will have to be given the same thing and the athiests will want to give the same status to their meeting houses!

Secular solutions are not (necessarily) anti-religious - they are needed to represent the will of the people on matters that are not religious - and to look after the infrastructure within which the church functions. The church should be within a community but should not be allowed to be the sole managers of it.

Therefore, I would ague that if the churches are to be given a special status, then there has to be a municipal status that goes hand-in-hand with it.

Within either autonomy or independence there is scope for different managements to overlap in their different domains - Albanians do their thing, and Serbs do theirs - some times the separation will geographic, sometimes it will be functional, but there is no reason why the geography and the function have to coincide exactly. If each community is willing to act democratically within their own domains and yet allow the other to do the same, that is a model of behaviour much to be desired.

to George:

there´s nothing more to say to you except: you are so terribly wrong, it hurts!

to Moreno:
if you want to inform yourself about the current matter KiM or the Balkans in general, you should not read those kindergarden-struggles here, but some serious scientific works.
if this is already enough for you to build an opinion about "the Serbs", I am really afraid you are not the kind of person I would like to talk to.

for a start:

www.kosovocompromise.com

“if it was not for the Serbian Church, Milosevic would not of got in Office (George - USA, Wednesday, 28 February, 2007, 19:54)”

George, Milosevic was a communist and rose to power through the Communist Party (Not exactly a religion friendly political theory). Stambolic was originally his mentor until Milosevic forced him out in 8th Session of the League of Communists of Serbia.

That is how Milosevic got into power.

Please elaborate on what role the Church played in the 8th Session, I’d be really curious to hear it.

“The churches should function within a municipal authority and not be given the Vatican solution. Next, mosques will have to be given the same thing and the athiests will want to give the same status to their meeting houses!”

The SOP is fairly unique the world over and has a special relationship to the Serbian people and their National Identity. No other ethnicity can magically change their ethnic identity by changing their religious affiliation. The SOP represents the very cradle of Serbian civilization and ethnic identity. Its not about religion, but rather who we are as a people. I am very secular myself.

Rather then promote the idea that the SOP should be included in any future partition plan, it seems a reasonable compromise to me to give them Vatican level status, including a UN seat and full autonomy. I think this level of respect for what represents the very core of our identity might just be something that the average Serb could live with. I’m trying to avoid another 600 years of attempting to obtain Kosovo back.

However, if you think Kosovo ought to merely have autonomy and not independence, I would be happy to accept that as a solution as well. Partition would be welcome as well.

The best solution in my mind would be to give the entire region EU membership and treat the various regions like how the US congress does. Even 10 years take a census and reevaluate the voting blocks and regions.

Anyone have a better idea?

it seems a reasonable compromise to me to give them Vatican level status, including a UN seat and full autonomy. (Matthew, Thursday, 1 March, 2007, 21:54)

A good idea, but unrealistic. The Serbian Orthodox Church is under the jurisdiction of Constantiniple or Istanbul in Turkey. The Serbian Orthodox Church is not autocephelus, but part of true Apostelic Chruch of Orthodox Christianity with it's head in Constantinople.

If a city is to be granted similiar status to Rome, than it would be Constantinople, the capital city of the Holy Roman Empire until the schism in 12th century splitting Rome and Constantinople between the western and eastern Holy Roman Empires.

If Kosovo is to become independant, the Serbian Orthdodox monasteries and churches will be at the mercy of the Kosovo Albanian dominated Government.

Matthew, You are right about, Stambolic being originally Milosevic mentor. But the facts are in April 1986 Milosevic was elected chairman of the Belgrade city committee and was at that time one off the biggest opposednent of Nationalism!!! And in April 1987 with the backing of the church he emerged as the leading force in Serbian Politics and the biggest Nationalist. With Stambolic backing, Milosevic was elected New Party Leader, with the narrowest margin in 8th Session of the League of Communists of Serbia. In July 1990 with the adoption of Milosevic New Serbian Constitution He gave the Serbian Orthodox Church great influence in political decisions and in return the Serbian Orthodox Church campaigned for him and in the December 1990 elections Milosevic won with over 80.5% of the vote.

My main point is that the state of Serbia in not separated from the Church and even today with Kostunica in office the Church, has even greater influence in political decisions.

“The Serbian Orthodox Church is under the jurisdiction of Constantiniple or Istanbul in Turkey.”

Konstantin, I think you’re falling into the trap of thinking of it in purely religious tones. The SOP also represents the very foundation of our civilization and the formation of our ethnic identity. So even for a secular Serbian such as myself it holds special meaning. I was not saying the SOP should have Vatican level status for the same reasoning that the Vatican has it, but that the political structure and international rights should be the similar. It’s a practical solution for the issue, however unlikely politically it would be. If Serbia is to propose alternative solutions they need to do it fast.