Serbian entity in Kosovo?

Even though these talks are useless as regards to a compromise to be reached, Serbian side, I think, will, at the end, comply with the Ahtisari's plan, as the best solution for the entire region. The religious nostalgia that serbian politicians are trying to use as a main factor to keep Kosova under their rule doens't work any longer. I f they (politicians) were so religious, they woud never do, what they did to the Albanians during the twenties, sixties and finaly the nineties.

It is not religious issue, but question for international law. In fact, main problem and cause of conflict is Albanian terror of all non-albanians on Kosovo during 20th century.

Sorry but its clear again that the west offered the Albanians something that they cannot deliver. Now they need to figure out how to control them and make them believe that AUTONOMY is the best solution!

Oh stop giving me the international law speech.

1. Serbia was not part of the UN during the conflict.
2. Serbia is being hypocritical since they broke the very law that they're trying to use as an excuse.
(hint: they killed their own citizens)

Don't you wonder why the rest of the world doesn't take you so seriously for Christ's sake. Even Russia doesn't take you seriously and has told you to be constructive in your arguments.

Need I say more???

To Alex, and to that entire crew, which still call back an international Helsinki act?
I think when these international laws were adopted, some people added an annex to it; “when humanitarian crisis occur, the sovereignty of a country would be ceased, and in 1999 that humanitarian crises in Kosovo was brought by the Serbian Government.
Don’t you guys get that…? It is over, finite.
You know, it is still a good point you’re all making, but rather late.
Avni Gjoni
Ferizaj

Obilic where are you going to be when Kosova is declared Independent, which is very soon, are you going still to remain in Obilic or you going to motherland serbia. I like you to stay and you will be treated just like any other Kosovar citizen with ful rights, and not the way serbia treayed K-Albanians.

Howdy neighbors? Instead of beating around the bush, relax and accept that Kosova is going to be independent. That aside, please renew your passports and come on down for a nice batch of "Birrë e Pëjes/Pecko Pivo" and some nice meats and cheeses and just have fun. Leave aside all stereotypes and religious non-sense; it's 21 century, life is short, so let us all enjoy it.

Peace.

I can only say one thing to my Slav brothers, forget about the past…
Start a new life, accepting Kosovo as your neighbor country; this will be more viable in a long run for your economy.
Do you know that of Kosovo starts boycotting Serbian products; your economy will do down for more than 14% in a year. And I believe that you can not afford that
Ivan from Pristina

i pity the old man who is trying his best to mediate. i think these consultations are futile and waste of time and money. its really hard to find a line in between. one side wants RED, the other wants WHITE.

Ivan do not play the economic card, out of the few 'main roads' (and I use that term very loosely) that lead out of the province the majority enter Serbia, if you want to start an economic war have something backing your economy besides the many Kosovo car washes, hotels, restaurants, gas stations every kilometer, and Mafioso.

This province is by no means economically independent or viable; the largest employers the whole scheme of things are KFOR, EU/UN, and Municipal admin assistants, drivers, or interpreters. The only capital infused into the Kosovo economy comes from the international community when they eat dinner down town.

The article was rather vague on describing a "Serb entity in Kosovo". Does that mean a Serb entity within an independenct Kosovo? Is this Serbia's way of offering a compromise? If it is, I say take it since it still paves the way for what K-Albanians truly want - independence.

More information on this would be appreciated.

Agron, Avni, and all the other positive posters...

I LOVE the idea, and would gladly come on down to visit, but it's not YOU the Serbs are worried about..

In fact, it seems like such a magical place, perhaps i shall apply for a passport.

It's the other 99.99% of Albanians that aren't quite of the same opinion...

Albanian hatred of Serbs before and after the conflict is by far greater than the other way around...

Just a sad fact.

Claim all you want in your democratically created institutions, and you diplomatically talk a good game, the fact of the matter is......Inside the homes of ALL Albanians from Kosovo, you are taught to distrust Serbs from childbirth..Distrust turns to hate..
No state institutions can patch that issue..

It's a true shame that the Serbs in Kosovo weren't given a stronger voice..
Both Pristina and Belgrade leadership used them as pawns....

Ivan Gregory you are missing the point. Kosovo won't be a neighbouring country for the Serbian inhabitants of Kosovo if it becomes independent, but will be their country also.

If the Albanian's in Kosovo do boycott Serbian goods then where will you buy them from instead at a higher price?

http://iwpr.net/?p=bcr&s=f&o=158114&apc_state=henibcr2004

Exports from Serbia to Kosovo are only a fraction of the total amount and certainly not anywhere near 15% of the total.

Don't you wonder why the rest of the world doesn't take you so seriously for Christ's sake. Need I say more???
(Art, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 15:05)

You have said enough, and you say you are Albanian Orthodox.

Art - please be more specific when you say that Serbia killed their own citizens. The citizens which were killed were KLA terrorists after much provoction, for which they got bombed for 78 days non-stop and many many innocent Serbs were killed (by Bombardier Bill and gang). I am sure that you will also agree that if Kosovo is granted independence then Republika Srpska should get the same right, since 99.99% of their population wants it.

The Serbs in Kosovo have two options: to consider Kosovo as their new country or to go. In they stay, I am sure that the Albanians will consider them as their citizens and put the past behind because those who have terrorized the Albanians are gone. I don't think that they remained in Kosovo.

"Do you know that of Kosovo starts boycotting Serbian products; your economy will do down for more than 14% in a year. And I believe that you can not afford that
Ivan from Pristina"

You really made me laugh man!Serbian export in 2006 was over 5 billion $,and export to Kosovo was 130-150 million $ or something like that.My math is not perfect but i think thats much less then 14%:-)Anyway,you don't buy serbian products cause you love them ,you buy them cause they are cheap and thats what you can afford.Even if you stop buying them tomorrow-Serbia can export that stuff to some other 3rd class state/entity.

I read that albanian negotiator Ylber Hasa threatened with a new Balkan war if albanians don't get immediate independence.

““when humanitarian crisis occur, the sovereignty of a country would be ceased, and in 1999 that humanitarian crises in Kosovo was brought by the Serbian Government.(Avni Gjoni, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 15:20)”

With all due respect Avni, could not the 2004 riots be construed in the same fashion and therefore your argument actually supports a partition plan for Kosovo? (The subject of the article) While the retaliatory attacks committed against Serbians after the NATO bombing were probably fairly uncontrollable and maybe even sadly inevitable, the 2004 riots seem to be a genuine case of serious human rights violations.

As to the religious issue, as you all know, religion affiliation for Yugoslavs is the major indicator of ethnicity (Hence the Croatian plan to exterminate our people by converting 1/3 to Catholism). The fact that our Churches represent the cradle of Serbian civilization to us does not mean one has to be highly religious for it to have importance in our lives. It represents our Identity and who we are. To dismiss our feelings on that subject as “Myth” which is so very often done, is basically racist, derogatory and insulting to our belief system. I know many of you making such statements don’t realize its racist to say such things, but I believe in preaching understanding and tolerance towards each other’s beliefs and cultural values. We must educate the masses, even on an individual level.

Regardless of the outcome of the Kosovo status talks Serbia MUST change Kosovar perception of our Historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity.

Ivan, that is a ridiculous statement. First of all, Kosovo does NOT account for 14 percent of the Serbian economy. It makes up that much percent of Serbian population, but is the poorest region in Europe. Also Ivan, where would you buy products from? More expensive places? Make them yourselves? Think about your economy then.

As I am reading comments here at this Serbian site, I realize that you guys from Balkans will never be able to live together. Serbians complain about Albanians, Albanians about Serbians. In my point of view as an outsider, both of you have legitimate claim to Kosovo, but that claim becomes stronger or weaker based on demographics, and that seem to favour Albanians at this time. Maybe it's a good thing for peace or maybe not. I wonder though how would Serbians pacify this area if Kosovo remained an autonomous province. They say they are democratic now, but if the population of Albans is 92 percent as they say, how democratic is Serbia to force these people to live with someone they don't want to.

Then, again we from the west know well that Serbia try to force Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, and even Macedonia to live within the Serb controlled Yugoslavia. After almost a million people dead as result of war, sanctions, and chaos, Serbs really haven't learned to live in peace.
What a tragedy.

It never ceases to amaze me how deep in the sand certain people of Serbian ethnicity are willing to burry their heads in order to avoid seeing the obvious. When the new Kosovar flag flies at Merdare, the Serbs will probably still be mumbling their incomprehensible rhetoric about international law.

How naive of you Matthew, how can you compare 1998/99 with March 2004 riots. It's a shame. For example , yesterday riots ocurred in Greece and studnets were on rampage, now imeagen if we had same riots in Kosova all pro serbs including belgrade will talk about howserbs are being killed and thnically cleansed. The bottom line , riots are riots and war and genocide are tottaly differnt things.

I read in a British parliament research paper that the Mitrovica area was only included in Kosovo in 1959, 15 years before the autonomous province was created. Has anyone got any links to details on this? I haven't found it on Google.

Lets have the Kosovo government deport all the Albanians that crossed into Kosovo illegally and THEN we'll see just how much of the total population Albanians actually make up. Its a shame that the Serbian people are being stripped of their ancient homeland and birthright! The international community needs to step back correct the wrong that its done! Serbs have suffered enough!

Brian, try looking at the economic significance of the Trepca mines. Perhaps these are the reason that Mitrovica was attached to Kosovo and Metohija?... although as far as i'm aware Mitrovica was Ottoman territory in 1912 and thus could be seen as part of the province of Kosovo and Metohija prior to 1959??? I would be interested in your findings.

To Oblic: Kosova was always populated with Albanian majority. I don't know where you got the idea that Albaninans from Albania crossed ilegally and supersided sebian population. Actully serb population until 1990 was not even 100000, but once Miloshevic started the wars in Balkan he brought serbs from all over ex-republics as well as serbs from serbia proper and promised them they will eat with golden spoon in Kosova. I think you should go back to your serbian homeland , if you are still hanging out in obilic.

this link should help regarding the Trepca mines

kristeencarrigan@yahoo.com

I really can't understand how someone wants independence but thinks that giving the same to the own minority isn't acceptable. That makes no sense to me...

So if Kosova gets independent, the northern (Serbian) part has to join serbia. And in that case that ethnical groups have advantage over teritorial integrity the Serbian Republic in Bosnia and Krajina in Croatia should also join Serbia. Furthermore should get independence: Corsica, Basque region, and everyone else who wants it.
Same right for all!

Agim, please know your facts before you try to post comments!!!

The Albanians achieved population dominance in KOCOBO only AFTER WWII because of Tito. Its true that Albanians have been expelling Serbs for hundreds of years, but the didnt gain majority status until Tito came along.

So why in the world would you deserve independence? You have no claim on KOCOBO, and your citizenship is still SERBIAN!!!!

Agim,

If Kosovo was ALWAYS Albanian, how come Kosova is just a bastardization of the Serbian word Kosovo? Couldn't you think of your own name? As well as every town in Kosovo being named by Serbs. How about all the Orthodox Churches and monasteries? You are going to tell me we put those up in the middle of your territory for the heck of it? Come on buddy, get a clue.

“how can you compare 1998/99 with March 2004 riots”

With all due respect Agim, and not to diminish in any way the suffering of your people, it is my understanding from looking at the numbers, that it appears the Serbian population of Kosovo suffered a similar, if not actually higher, per capita (Percentage of the population) of the dead, missing and cleansed. If I am completely wrong on this, please cite some sources and I promise you I will change my opinion on this.

While I support your right to self determination based on human rights abuses, I feel the same for the Serbian population. We have the same fears as your people do. I am truly sorry about the 2004 riots, but they sent a very clear message to the Serbian people. As you can see from my previous statement, I feel that the retaliatory attacks on the Serbian population after the NATO bombing were sadly inevitable, however the 2004 riots were completely inexcusable.

I take the fears and concerns of the Albanian population seriously, why can’t you do the same for the Serbian population?

Of course Serbia must apologize and offer serious restitution, but that’s a separate issue from the protection of minority populations, and the two can not be linked to one another. It of course would greatly help if Serbia were to take the first step.

“The bottom line , riots are riots and war and genocide are tottaly differnt things”

Well, sort of Agim.

I mean, they way I look at it is with a systematic institutionalized system of slaughter, like what the Germans had, its much easier to handle. Just removed the most insane maniacs, like Hitler & Co. and you can work with the people and change their opinions on the ground. Most Germans, while anti-Semitic, were not bloodthirsty killers.

In a grassroots riot type condition, as we saw in Rwanda, we have a much more dangerous and brutal situation. In that case you have much of the actual civilian population involved in the abuses. That is much more difficult to change.

Serbia, arguably suffers from both and we have much work to do, on that I am sure we agree.

However, just because the crimes committed against Serbs were more on the grassroots level then in an institutional manner does not mean it’s a safer or milder form of repression against the people on the ground. I would in fact make the argument that it’s a more dangerous situation for the survivors in such circumstances.

As far as the argument in regards to the Serbian refugees who were forced to settle in Kosovo and were then cleansed a second time in the aftermath of the NATO bombing. While I agree they probably should not be included in the count as non-returnees, they should most assuredly be counted among the ethnically cleansed and displaced. To imply, as some people seem to do, that somehow their suffering wasn’t as important or significant as those who only suffered ethnic cleansing once is simply absurd and insulting.

some Albanian calling himself Agim wrote:"Kosova was always populated with Albanian majority"

he either never saw a school from inside, or he is deliberately lying.

both is embarassing.

to all those Albanians who think to be the descendants of the illyrians: you are not.

you could check that easily if you dared to, but, you don´t.

but you are constantly accusing the Serbs of cowardice. once again your actions are ridculous.

and just for Agim:
here you can learn something about the true facts in regard to your non-serious remark of " always the majority "
in KiM,

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/pages/kosovo_yesterday/sub_links/16/16.htm
.. it becomes clear that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

once again dedicated to Agim and his rather ignorant knowledge of the past...

"Out of the 2,166 farming homesteads and 2,666 houses in cattle-grazing land, 44 were registrated as Albanian (1,8%). More recent research indicates that apart from the Slav, i.e. Serbian population in Kosovo and Metohia, the remaining population of non-Slav origin did not account for more than 2% of the total population in the 14th century"

from "Kosova dikur e sot" pp. 109-128. "Kosovo, Once and Today" in its english translation.

also:
Les Albanais a la lumiere des sources historiques des Slaves du Sud, pp. 341-359.


what is so apparently so sad, todays Albanians seem to get their history-knowledge from rather doubtful sources like wikipedia or some albanian propaganda sites...

it´s their own choice what they believe, but there is only one truth...

I encourage you Mathew
Just a questions for the so caled historians here: where the albanians came from
Probablly for you they are aliens

To All Serbs and Serb lovers here:
Guys, you want it or not Kosovo(a) will soon be independent ans you sould learn to live with each other. But sadly I can see that the majority of serbs do not accept this and they still want Kosovo, but without Albanians in.
To Jovan: I checked your link, but that site is clearly one sided (serbian). and I don't think Albanians will agree with that.
As regarding the name of the province, old maps show the territory of Kosovo as DARDANIA that's in Albanian. The point I want to make is that both sides can present argument for the past. At the present the Albanians are the malority and they do mot want to live with Serbs. This is crystal clear. Remembering the 1999 war and all Yugoslavia's war i have no doubt why they don't like Serbs. I think an independent Kosovo with be the best solution, and this is what it is happening I think.

Oh Andy...,

you should do your research a bit more properly, I guess.

first: that link is not one-sided, just read it again, and this time thoroughly,please.

as to your historical discoveries... :)

please take into account that, the name Dardania was used by the Romans, who called that region after the name the illyrians called it, but the key-point where you make your mistake is, that the Illyrians are not the ancestors of todays Albanians.

todays Albanians took over a lot of the illyrian language roots, since at that time they were rather underdeveloped and unorganized.
so, you have just fallen for something that the Albanians are often reiterating although it´s simply wrong.

just one example:
the name of the Carpathians, the mountains mostly located in the area of todays Romania... ( who of course will certainly all be Albanians, I guess... )

The name 'Karpetes' may ultimately be from the Proto Indo-European root *sker-/*ker-, from which comes the Albanian word karpë (rock), ...

or to explain it easier: all the Balkans were once inhabited by the Illyrians, but they were assimilated by all other poeples that came to the balkan-peninsula, so they ceased to exist.

the only ones who were not consolidated and culturally strong enough to develop an own cultural identity where the ancestors of todays Albanians.

they adopted a lot from the illyrians and stayed until the middleages some poeple living in the albanian mountains... later on they settled also in todays Serbia, but that was much later than the Albanians like to hear.

in result: there are no, simply no reasonable scientists who would agree to that theory you have mentioned. thanks to god, it was declared obsolete by AMERICAN scientists ( historians and archeologists team-working in KiM in the 70´ and 80´of the last century )

so that no Albanian can claim that to be serbian propaganda, ...it´s just the truth. a truth that they eagerly try to falsify, as it seems.

ps: there are a lot of those proto-european-roots also in the serbian language and other european languages ( for instance water,voda,wasser, who have the same origin, or moon, mesec, mond or snow, sneg, schnee, to mention only a few ), so what the Albanians are trying to sell here about their ancestry is a rather simple joke.

Well, the point is that what you see as the truth for you (Serbs) is a propaganda for the other side and vice-versa. Both sides can come up with plenty arguments about who was first and etc, and the other side will always reject these arguments and will put forward theirs.
The problem is that NOW and TODAY this is the situation: Kosovo will be independent because they don’t want to live with Serbs, they don’t like Serbs and they do not want to hear about Belgrade ruling Kosovo. You like it or not they will get the independence and that I think will be the best way for the region to find some peace. With the last war in Kosovo, I think Serbia lost any moral right to claim any sovereignty in Kosovo as from what I see Serbs they really want to keep Kosovo, BUT without Albanians there. You guys have to live with this situation and with each other as neighbours

Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo and even Montenegro doesen't want to have anything with the Serbian State.....explains alot about the State of Serbia and its people.
Serbs came to Balkans couple centuries ago, right, and who was living in Kosovo that time? Was it preserved from God to be given to Serbs?
10 years ago Albanian could be eailsy satisfied with a piece of autonomy, but thanks to their unfinite stupidity and cruelty and eagerness to make their dream named 'Srbija do Tokija preko Milwokija' ( Serbia to Tokyo through Milwaukee) come true.
Vojvodina will soon want to join Hungary and the South of Serbia inhabited from Bosniacs will join bosnia and the rest will be thrown to Romania. You have deserved it!

Andy,

you don´t understand a fundamental thing: if there should be an imposed "solution" against Serbia and last but not least international law, there won´t be a lasting peace.

can´t you understand, that it is very important to brake out of that circle of injustice and violence?

the Albanians are way too extreme at the moment, they will be capable to act seriously after a certain period of time, so that´s the reason why I think there should be a compromise that satisfies all.

not because I like or dislike the Albanians, but just because it is the only solution that would bring peace.

reiterating that the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple" is not helpful to the matter and I think it is just cheap anti-serbian propaganda, since offering broad autonomy clearly means that they would rule themselves, but you seem not wanting to see that.

as to this "pro" posting right afterwards: your hate-related nonsense speaks for itself...

Even though these talks are useless as regards to a compromise to be reached, Serbian side, I think, will, at the end, comply with the Ahtisari's plan, as the best solution for the entire region. The religious nostalgia that serbian politicians are trying to use as a main factor to keep Kosova under their rule doens't work any longer. I f they (politicians) were so religious, they woud never do, what they did to the Albanians during the twenties, sixties and finaly the nineties.

It is not religious issue, but question for international law. In fact, main problem and cause of conflict is Albanian terror of all non-albanians on Kosovo during 20th century.

Sorry but its clear again that the west offered the Albanians something that they cannot deliver. Now they need to figure out how to control them and make them believe that AUTONOMY is the best solution!

Oh stop giving me the international law speech.

1. Serbia was not part of the UN during the conflict.
2. Serbia is being hypocritical since they broke the very law that they're trying to use as an excuse.
(hint: they killed their own citizens)

Don't you wonder why the rest of the world doesn't take you so seriously for Christ's sake. Even Russia doesn't take you seriously and has told you to be constructive in your arguments.

Need I say more???

To Alex, and to that entire crew, which still call back an international Helsinki act?
I think when these international laws were adopted, some people added an annex to it; “when humanitarian crisis occur, the sovereignty of a country would be ceased, and in 1999 that humanitarian crises in Kosovo was brought by the Serbian Government.
Don’t you guys get that…? It is over, finite.
You know, it is still a good point you’re all making, but rather late.
Avni Gjoni
Ferizaj

Obilic where are you going to be when Kosova is declared Independent, which is very soon, are you going still to remain in Obilic or you going to motherland serbia. I like you to stay and you will be treated just like any other Kosovar citizen with ful rights, and not the way serbia treayed K-Albanians.

Howdy neighbors? Instead of beating around the bush, relax and accept that Kosova is going to be independent. That aside, please renew your passports and come on down for a nice batch of "Birrë e Pëjes/Pecko Pivo" and some nice meats and cheeses and just have fun. Leave aside all stereotypes and religious non-sense; it's 21 century, life is short, so let us all enjoy it.

Peace.

I can only say one thing to my Slav brothers, forget about the past…
Start a new life, accepting Kosovo as your neighbor country; this will be more viable in a long run for your economy.
Do you know that of Kosovo starts boycotting Serbian products; your economy will do down for more than 14% in a year. And I believe that you can not afford that
Ivan from Pristina

i pity the old man who is trying his best to mediate. i think these consultations are futile and waste of time and money. its really hard to find a line in between. one side wants RED, the other wants WHITE.

Ivan do not play the economic card, out of the few 'main roads' (and I use that term very loosely) that lead out of the province the majority enter Serbia, if you want to start an economic war have something backing your economy besides the many Kosovo car washes, hotels, restaurants, gas stations every kilometer, and Mafioso.

This province is by no means economically independent or viable; the largest employers the whole scheme of things are KFOR, EU/UN, and Municipal admin assistants, drivers, or interpreters. The only capital infused into the Kosovo economy comes from the international community when they eat dinner down town.

The article was rather vague on describing a "Serb entity in Kosovo". Does that mean a Serb entity within an independenct Kosovo? Is this Serbia's way of offering a compromise? If it is, I say take it since it still paves the way for what K-Albanians truly want - independence.

More information on this would be appreciated.

Agron, Avni, and all the other positive posters...

I LOVE the idea, and would gladly come on down to visit, but it's not YOU the Serbs are worried about..

In fact, it seems like such a magical place, perhaps i shall apply for a passport.

It's the other 99.99% of Albanians that aren't quite of the same opinion...

Albanian hatred of Serbs before and after the conflict is by far greater than the other way around...

Just a sad fact.

Claim all you want in your democratically created institutions, and you diplomatically talk a good game, the fact of the matter is......Inside the homes of ALL Albanians from Kosovo, you are taught to distrust Serbs from childbirth..Distrust turns to hate..
No state institutions can patch that issue..

It's a true shame that the Serbs in Kosovo weren't given a stronger voice..
Both Pristina and Belgrade leadership used them as pawns....

Ivan Gregory you are missing the point. Kosovo won't be a neighbouring country for the Serbian inhabitants of Kosovo if it becomes independent, but will be their country also.

If the Albanian's in Kosovo do boycott Serbian goods then where will you buy them from instead at a higher price?

http://iwpr.net/?p=bcr&s=f&o=158114&apc_state=henibcr2004

Exports from Serbia to Kosovo are only a fraction of the total amount and certainly not anywhere near 15% of the total.

Don't you wonder why the rest of the world doesn't take you so seriously for Christ's sake. Need I say more???
(Art, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 15:05)

You have said enough, and you say you are Albanian Orthodox.

Art - please be more specific when you say that Serbia killed their own citizens. The citizens which were killed were KLA terrorists after much provoction, for which they got bombed for 78 days non-stop and many many innocent Serbs were killed (by Bombardier Bill and gang). I am sure that you will also agree that if Kosovo is granted independence then Republika Srpska should get the same right, since 99.99% of their population wants it.

The Serbs in Kosovo have two options: to consider Kosovo as their new country or to go. In they stay, I am sure that the Albanians will consider them as their citizens and put the past behind because those who have terrorized the Albanians are gone. I don't think that they remained in Kosovo.

"Do you know that of Kosovo starts boycotting Serbian products; your economy will do down for more than 14% in a year. And I believe that you can not afford that
Ivan from Pristina"

You really made me laugh man!Serbian export in 2006 was over 5 billion $,and export to Kosovo was 130-150 million $ or something like that.My math is not perfect but i think thats much less then 14%:-)Anyway,you don't buy serbian products cause you love them ,you buy them cause they are cheap and thats what you can afford.Even if you stop buying them tomorrow-Serbia can export that stuff to some other 3rd class state/entity.

I read that albanian negotiator Ylber Hasa threatened with a new Balkan war if albanians don't get immediate independence.

““when humanitarian crisis occur, the sovereignty of a country would be ceased, and in 1999 that humanitarian crises in Kosovo was brought by the Serbian Government.(Avni Gjoni, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 15:20)”

With all due respect Avni, could not the 2004 riots be construed in the same fashion and therefore your argument actually supports a partition plan for Kosovo? (The subject of the article) While the retaliatory attacks committed against Serbians after the NATO bombing were probably fairly uncontrollable and maybe even sadly inevitable, the 2004 riots seem to be a genuine case of serious human rights violations.

As to the religious issue, as you all know, religion affiliation for Yugoslavs is the major indicator of ethnicity (Hence the Croatian plan to exterminate our people by converting 1/3 to Catholism). The fact that our Churches represent the cradle of Serbian civilization to us does not mean one has to be highly religious for it to have importance in our lives. It represents our Identity and who we are. To dismiss our feelings on that subject as “Myth” which is so very often done, is basically racist, derogatory and insulting to our belief system. I know many of you making such statements don’t realize its racist to say such things, but I believe in preaching understanding and tolerance towards each other’s beliefs and cultural values. We must educate the masses, even on an individual level.

Regardless of the outcome of the Kosovo status talks Serbia MUST change Kosovar perception of our Historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity.

Ivan, that is a ridiculous statement. First of all, Kosovo does NOT account for 14 percent of the Serbian economy. It makes up that much percent of Serbian population, but is the poorest region in Europe. Also Ivan, where would you buy products from? More expensive places? Make them yourselves? Think about your economy then.

As I am reading comments here at this Serbian site, I realize that you guys from Balkans will never be able to live together. Serbians complain about Albanians, Albanians about Serbians. In my point of view as an outsider, both of you have legitimate claim to Kosovo, but that claim becomes stronger or weaker based on demographics, and that seem to favour Albanians at this time. Maybe it's a good thing for peace or maybe not. I wonder though how would Serbians pacify this area if Kosovo remained an autonomous province. They say they are democratic now, but if the population of Albans is 92 percent as they say, how democratic is Serbia to force these people to live with someone they don't want to.

Then, again we from the west know well that Serbia try to force Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, and even Macedonia to live within the Serb controlled Yugoslavia. After almost a million people dead as result of war, sanctions, and chaos, Serbs really haven't learned to live in peace.
What a tragedy.

It never ceases to amaze me how deep in the sand certain people of Serbian ethnicity are willing to burry their heads in order to avoid seeing the obvious. When the new Kosovar flag flies at Merdare, the Serbs will probably still be mumbling their incomprehensible rhetoric about international law.

How naive of you Matthew, how can you compare 1998/99 with March 2004 riots. It's a shame. For example , yesterday riots ocurred in Greece and studnets were on rampage, now imeagen if we had same riots in Kosova all pro serbs including belgrade will talk about howserbs are being killed and thnically cleansed. The bottom line , riots are riots and war and genocide are tottaly differnt things.

I read in a British parliament research paper that the Mitrovica area was only included in Kosovo in 1959, 15 years before the autonomous province was created. Has anyone got any links to details on this? I haven't found it on Google.

Lets have the Kosovo government deport all the Albanians that crossed into Kosovo illegally and THEN we'll see just how much of the total population Albanians actually make up. Its a shame that the Serbian people are being stripped of their ancient homeland and birthright! The international community needs to step back correct the wrong that its done! Serbs have suffered enough!

Brian, try looking at the economic significance of the Trepca mines. Perhaps these are the reason that Mitrovica was attached to Kosovo and Metohija?... although as far as i'm aware Mitrovica was Ottoman territory in 1912 and thus could be seen as part of the province of Kosovo and Metohija prior to 1959??? I would be interested in your findings.

To Oblic: Kosova was always populated with Albanian majority. I don't know where you got the idea that Albaninans from Albania crossed ilegally and supersided sebian population. Actully serb population until 1990 was not even 100000, but once Miloshevic started the wars in Balkan he brought serbs from all over ex-republics as well as serbs from serbia proper and promised them they will eat with golden spoon in Kosova. I think you should go back to your serbian homeland , if you are still hanging out in obilic.

this link should help regarding the Trepca mines

kristeencarrigan@yahoo.com

I really can't understand how someone wants independence but thinks that giving the same to the own minority isn't acceptable. That makes no sense to me...

So if Kosova gets independent, the northern (Serbian) part has to join serbia. And in that case that ethnical groups have advantage over teritorial integrity the Serbian Republic in Bosnia and Krajina in Croatia should also join Serbia. Furthermore should get independence: Corsica, Basque region, and everyone else who wants it.
Same right for all!

Agim, please know your facts before you try to post comments!!!

The Albanians achieved population dominance in KOCOBO only AFTER WWII because of Tito. Its true that Albanians have been expelling Serbs for hundreds of years, but the didnt gain majority status until Tito came along.

So why in the world would you deserve independence? You have no claim on KOCOBO, and your citizenship is still SERBIAN!!!!

Agim,

If Kosovo was ALWAYS Albanian, how come Kosova is just a bastardization of the Serbian word Kosovo? Couldn't you think of your own name? As well as every town in Kosovo being named by Serbs. How about all the Orthodox Churches and monasteries? You are going to tell me we put those up in the middle of your territory for the heck of it? Come on buddy, get a clue.

“how can you compare 1998/99 with March 2004 riots”

With all due respect Agim, and not to diminish in any way the suffering of your people, it is my understanding from looking at the numbers, that it appears the Serbian population of Kosovo suffered a similar, if not actually higher, per capita (Percentage of the population) of the dead, missing and cleansed. If I am completely wrong on this, please cite some sources and I promise you I will change my opinion on this.

While I support your right to self determination based on human rights abuses, I feel the same for the Serbian population. We have the same fears as your people do. I am truly sorry about the 2004 riots, but they sent a very clear message to the Serbian people. As you can see from my previous statement, I feel that the retaliatory attacks on the Serbian population after the NATO bombing were sadly inevitable, however the 2004 riots were completely inexcusable.

I take the fears and concerns of the Albanian population seriously, why can’t you do the same for the Serbian population?

Of course Serbia must apologize and offer serious restitution, but that’s a separate issue from the protection of minority populations, and the two can not be linked to one another. It of course would greatly help if Serbia were to take the first step.

“The bottom line , riots are riots and war and genocide are tottaly differnt things”

Well, sort of Agim.

I mean, they way I look at it is with a systematic institutionalized system of slaughter, like what the Germans had, its much easier to handle. Just removed the most insane maniacs, like Hitler & Co. and you can work with the people and change their opinions on the ground. Most Germans, while anti-Semitic, were not bloodthirsty killers.

In a grassroots riot type condition, as we saw in Rwanda, we have a much more dangerous and brutal situation. In that case you have much of the actual civilian population involved in the abuses. That is much more difficult to change.

Serbia, arguably suffers from both and we have much work to do, on that I am sure we agree.

However, just because the crimes committed against Serbs were more on the grassroots level then in an institutional manner does not mean it’s a safer or milder form of repression against the people on the ground. I would in fact make the argument that it’s a more dangerous situation for the survivors in such circumstances.

As far as the argument in regards to the Serbian refugees who were forced to settle in Kosovo and were then cleansed a second time in the aftermath of the NATO bombing. While I agree they probably should not be included in the count as non-returnees, they should most assuredly be counted among the ethnically cleansed and displaced. To imply, as some people seem to do, that somehow their suffering wasn’t as important or significant as those who only suffered ethnic cleansing once is simply absurd and insulting.

some Albanian calling himself Agim wrote:"Kosova was always populated with Albanian majority"

he either never saw a school from inside, or he is deliberately lying.

both is embarassing.

to all those Albanians who think to be the descendants of the illyrians: you are not.

you could check that easily if you dared to, but, you don´t.

but you are constantly accusing the Serbs of cowardice. once again your actions are ridculous.

and just for Agim:
here you can learn something about the true facts in regard to your non-serious remark of " always the majority "
in KiM,

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/pages/kosovo_yesterday/sub_links/16/16.htm
.. it becomes clear that you simply do not know what you are talking about.

once again dedicated to Agim and his rather ignorant knowledge of the past...

"Out of the 2,166 farming homesteads and 2,666 houses in cattle-grazing land, 44 were registrated as Albanian (1,8%). More recent research indicates that apart from the Slav, i.e. Serbian population in Kosovo and Metohia, the remaining population of non-Slav origin did not account for more than 2% of the total population in the 14th century"

from "Kosova dikur e sot" pp. 109-128. "Kosovo, Once and Today" in its english translation.

also:
Les Albanais a la lumiere des sources historiques des Slaves du Sud, pp. 341-359.


what is so apparently so sad, todays Albanians seem to get their history-knowledge from rather doubtful sources like wikipedia or some albanian propaganda sites...

it´s their own choice what they believe, but there is only one truth...

I encourage you Mathew
Just a questions for the so caled historians here: where the albanians came from
Probablly for you they are aliens

To All Serbs and Serb lovers here:
Guys, you want it or not Kosovo(a) will soon be independent ans you sould learn to live with each other. But sadly I can see that the majority of serbs do not accept this and they still want Kosovo, but without Albanians in.
To Jovan: I checked your link, but that site is clearly one sided (serbian). and I don't think Albanians will agree with that.
As regarding the name of the province, old maps show the territory of Kosovo as DARDANIA that's in Albanian. The point I want to make is that both sides can present argument for the past. At the present the Albanians are the malority and they do mot want to live with Serbs. This is crystal clear. Remembering the 1999 war and all Yugoslavia's war i have no doubt why they don't like Serbs. I think an independent Kosovo with be the best solution, and this is what it is happening I think.

Oh Andy...,

you should do your research a bit more properly, I guess.

first: that link is not one-sided, just read it again, and this time thoroughly,please.

as to your historical discoveries... :)

please take into account that, the name Dardania was used by the Romans, who called that region after the name the illyrians called it, but the key-point where you make your mistake is, that the Illyrians are not the ancestors of todays Albanians.

todays Albanians took over a lot of the illyrian language roots, since at that time they were rather underdeveloped and unorganized.
so, you have just fallen for something that the Albanians are often reiterating although it´s simply wrong.

just one example:
the name of the Carpathians, the mountains mostly located in the area of todays Romania... ( who of course will certainly all be Albanians, I guess... )

The name 'Karpetes' may ultimately be from the Proto Indo-European root *sker-/*ker-, from which comes the Albanian word karpë (rock), ...

or to explain it easier: all the Balkans were once inhabited by the Illyrians, but they were assimilated by all other poeples that came to the balkan-peninsula, so they ceased to exist.

the only ones who were not consolidated and culturally strong enough to develop an own cultural identity where the ancestors of todays Albanians.

they adopted a lot from the illyrians and stayed until the middleages some poeple living in the albanian mountains... later on they settled also in todays Serbia, but that was much later than the Albanians like to hear.

in result: there are no, simply no reasonable scientists who would agree to that theory you have mentioned. thanks to god, it was declared obsolete by AMERICAN scientists ( historians and archeologists team-working in KiM in the 70´ and 80´of the last century )

so that no Albanian can claim that to be serbian propaganda, ...it´s just the truth. a truth that they eagerly try to falsify, as it seems.

ps: there are a lot of those proto-european-roots also in the serbian language and other european languages ( for instance water,voda,wasser, who have the same origin, or moon, mesec, mond or snow, sneg, schnee, to mention only a few ), so what the Albanians are trying to sell here about their ancestry is a rather simple joke.

Well, the point is that what you see as the truth for you (Serbs) is a propaganda for the other side and vice-versa. Both sides can come up with plenty arguments about who was first and etc, and the other side will always reject these arguments and will put forward theirs.
The problem is that NOW and TODAY this is the situation: Kosovo will be independent because they don’t want to live with Serbs, they don’t like Serbs and they do not want to hear about Belgrade ruling Kosovo. You like it or not they will get the independence and that I think will be the best way for the region to find some peace. With the last war in Kosovo, I think Serbia lost any moral right to claim any sovereignty in Kosovo as from what I see Serbs they really want to keep Kosovo, BUT without Albanians there. You guys have to live with this situation and with each other as neighbours

Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo and even Montenegro doesen't want to have anything with the Serbian State.....explains alot about the State of Serbia and its people.
Serbs came to Balkans couple centuries ago, right, and who was living in Kosovo that time? Was it preserved from God to be given to Serbs?
10 years ago Albanian could be eailsy satisfied with a piece of autonomy, but thanks to their unfinite stupidity and cruelty and eagerness to make their dream named 'Srbija do Tokija preko Milwokija' ( Serbia to Tokyo through Milwaukee) come true.
Vojvodina will soon want to join Hungary and the South of Serbia inhabited from Bosniacs will join bosnia and the rest will be thrown to Romania. You have deserved it!

Andy,

you don´t understand a fundamental thing: if there should be an imposed "solution" against Serbia and last but not least international law, there won´t be a lasting peace.

can´t you understand, that it is very important to brake out of that circle of injustice and violence?

the Albanians are way too extreme at the moment, they will be capable to act seriously after a certain period of time, so that´s the reason why I think there should be a compromise that satisfies all.

not because I like or dislike the Albanians, but just because it is the only solution that would bring peace.

reiterating that the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple" is not helpful to the matter and I think it is just cheap anti-serbian propaganda, since offering broad autonomy clearly means that they would rule themselves, but you seem not wanting to see that.

as to this "pro" posting right afterwards: your hate-related nonsense speaks for itself...