Koštunica: UN will block Kosovo’s independence

No where in this article could I read the word Albanian. Kostunica in his day dreaming must have forgotten who constitutes majority of the people of Kosovo.

Kostunica like his mentor Milosevic thinks that he can come to Kosovo and fulfil what Milosevic didn’t. I can tell him and others sharing his opinions that this will never happen.

It is sad to see Serbia represented by such deconstructive, populist, xenophobic and nationalistic politicians.

majority in KosovO was determined by foreign interests. present your serbian passports as identification that the now majority are true citizens of serbia. thank the post war tito for alowing free access to the serbian state.

There is a contradiction in this sentence:

“We will be utmost constructive and warn in time through these talks that it is necessary to adjust the entire Ahtisaari's proposal to the existing international norms”. You cannot be constructive and reject the whole document.
Does he think the creators of this document are not aware of international norms?
In any case, Kostunica will hit a brick wall if goes to Vienna with this attitude. He wants the entire package changed to Serbian wishes and Albanians get …….the middle finger? Gee, who knew that? I guess daydreaming does this to you.

????

I am a British citzen of Serbian decent - surely the same can be said of Serbian citzens of Albanian decent on it's internationally recognised territory. Why should he not refer to Serbian citizens as anything else? If he refered to Albanian citizens then you would be shouting that he disregards you and wants the land not the citizens. He is saying the opposite by only refering to Serbian citizens. Serbia wants it's land and it's citizens it truly believes that there is a way that all the poeples of Serbia can move on together. That does not insult your ethnic heritage but is a matter of fact. No one is saying that you should forget that and it should be manitained but if each side looked and learned about each other they might find that they all face the same difficulties and that together they can overcome the economic degradation that has mired the region.

I believe it is evident that plan A-thisarri will not get to the UN security council wihout the obligation to 1244 as Wisner suggested only last week. Also, it is becoming clearer day by day that only through a genuine and real dialogue will a lasting solution occur. The alternative will at best be a continuation of the Status Quo at worst the consequences are not even worth considering.

The hatred and warped history accounting needs to be put aside and a new understanding created. Why can't all the poeples of Serbia not work on formulating a solution that is win-win? Self-governership for the regions of Southern Serbia (including presevo) which is included fully within the Serbian parliment. There is no reason why Serbia 2007 cannot be a place that shows the rest of the world that ethnic hatred can be overcome and ordinary people can learn to trust each other and understand that there is more that unites us then divides us. All the Serbian citizens (no matter of ethnic heritage) deserve a better future and only by working together to find alternatives to further confrontation and conflicts can a better future come about that is lasting and prosperous for ALL.

Princip,
What you are saying is wonderful.... but too late.
Unfortunatly your co-patriots had different opinion, and for that reason the whole Yugoslavia went to hell.
Too late Princip, too late....
Train's gone. Kosova is finally free.

it's not surprising that you take such a view, after all what do you think we all were born yesterday and pretend that nothing happened. You and your PM have to accept one way or another that it’s lose -lose, no matter what you may believe.

Princip - that was quite a write-up you put there. Unfortunately, world peace would also be ideal so people can carry on with their real issues, namely economics, education and science. But realistically, things have to be addressed and worked out as they are. Serbia's government hasn’t mentioned ANYTHING about Albanians of what you so solemnly speak of. Let's say that Kosova does indeed agree to say with Serbia - what is Serbia prepared to offer exactly? How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians? I am sure that the current so called current democratic government would surely let the parliament represent the people living in Serbia justly, thus giving Albanians AT LEAST 20% of the seats, right? How about a REAL guarantees that a déjà vu of '89 will not be repeated? How about a University autonomous of Belgrade University and independent of Serbia's arm dictating what can or cannot be offered in their curriculum, with freedom of Albanians to study whatever they please? How about regional and decentralized judiciary system and police force, composed of ethnic groups relative to the population in the province? There are tons of the things that almost all multiethnic democracies offer their citizens, but the above should give you a good jumpstart in the food for thought department...

Yeah, I am pretty sure the above won't be feasible to the current "democratic" government either. Let’s not kid ourselves – as much as I would like to believe that things are different from the Milosevic era, actions speak louder than words – the Tadic/Kostunica government isn’t that much different. Then let’s not forget who got the most votes in the elections… do we really need to repeat all of the discrepancies over and over again?
Good day to you all.

Self-governership for the regions of Southern Serbia (including presevo) which is included fully within the Serbian parliment. (Princip, UK, 19 February 2007, 17:15)

The European community has held steadfast to maintaining the pre-civil war borders of Tito.

Partition would have been the best solution of all of the former Yugoslavia given the revived ethnic hatred.

Bosnia Herzegovina is doomed to failure as one state as this is only a mini-Yugoslavia run by the EU.

Jeton, I'd support every one of the points you raised, and I think the majority of Serbs would too. Little to no public support exists in Serbia for physically and officially discriminating against Albanians. Look at the multiethnicity in Vojvodina and you'll see what could happen in the very same state!

I think diplomatically Serbia and her government are stuck with this very bad situation , which was given to them by their great leader Milo-vic. Diplomacy is a tricky business. By being so stuck in one position on Kosova/o, Serbs as a whole are suffering. When Rohan says, “Nothing will change” is telling you people of Serbia “Get over you have lost Kosova/o since 1999 and you have to talk to Millosh about that. (By the way, this is how the Kosova/o name is going to be after few months when it gets independence so I suggest you people to have something about that when going to Vienna).
I just want to know how you people think about the new flag and anthem and symbols of Kosova/o should be like. Any suggestion are Welcomed here.

Jeton wrote:
"How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians? I am sure that the current so called current democratic government would surely let the parliament represent the people living in Serbia et...."

You know.......You're right.
It's too bad that the love of Kosovo from ordinaryy Serbs doesn't reflect on the Government..
But yes, there would be a definate "Grass roots" movement required if Serbia truly wished to keep Kosovo.

Even then, it would be a tumultuous journey..

guys, ( or should I say boys? )

you are just forgetting that Kosovo is Serbia, and K-albanians are a minority within Serbia.and therefore the only justifiable outcome is a broad autonomy, not more. let´s stick to facts.

and, for all of you who are boasting, "train is gone" "too late" ...don´t make the mistake to mix up your wishful thinking with the political possibilities...
otherwise you will be dissappointed in the future...

no consensus in UNSC = no independence

no consensus within EU = certainly no unilateral recognition, you may believe it but I tell you better don´t! so, no consensus in the EU = no independence

just in case of a unilateral recognition = very, very bad situation for K-albanians, Blag explained it a few times, so I won´t repeat it.

and finally, just today mr.Steinmeier critisized the american standpoint in regard to the rocket-shield in eastern europe.
do you think that Germany is so much of a servant to follow all american moves?
I wouldn´t rely on that.

ALL Serbs agree to Jeton's first paragraph as a GREAT first step forward.As an American I am fully prepared to guarantee these things and more or the US will not recognize Serbia's government as legitimate.

Jeton:

you memtioned a point that I think is worth to be emphasized.

you wrote:
" How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians?"

and I can only say, I would welcome such a move towards the Albanians, not only to show them that todays Serbia is a different one, but also to make clear that nobody denies the bad treatment by the Milosevic-Regime.

BUT, and in my eyes thats the crucial point, that won´t happen as long there is an extremist-demand to grab away serbian soil.

once the Albanians have let that demand go, and realized that broad autonomy is the best solution possible for both sides, such a move by a serbian government will certainly come, ..since it also happened towards Croatia, and I don´t see any difference between Albanians and Croatians.

So, Jeton, that will happen, I am sure of it.

but again, if someone wants to take away what is and always was yours, you won´t sit down and drink a coffee with him, right?

as to the minority rights you have mentioned:
Serbia is offering a BROAD autonomy, that means the highest possible level of self-rule, I constantly have the impression the Albanians aren´t told by their leadership what that means.

it means all except any signs of foreign sovereignty over serbian territory.

so, finally, where´s the problem, do you REALLY believe, that the k-albanian population has to fear any serbian attacks? you are kidding!? american forces will stay for the next 90 years, as far as I know that´s the time-line, they leased the area of "Camp-Bondsteel" for that time-period.
and since Serbia is becoming more and more economically important as a CEFTA-centered country and even future-EU-member, you really believe Serbia will make the same mistakes again?
if so, you are not serious.

what makes me wonder is why only the extremist-demand-supporters are posting their threats...instead of moderate Albanians showing some real democratic and international-law-respecting attitude.

luciano,

due to all respect, but I doubt that any american government would care at all, what guarantees you are giving...

what Jeton has asked for will happen, it´s only a question of time.

Its funny how all of the sudden Koshtunica does have a mandate to negotiate. I thought Serbia could not negotiate until it formed its goverment!!

I will enjoy the day when Koshtunica tries to expains to serbs how and why kosovo became independent.

Jovan,how old are you?!Your problem is that you keep underestimating Kosovan Albanians.By insulting them constantly you are showing your true colours.Learn to respect,learn to except,stop this hatred as is going nowhere.Try to build bridges and stop this what are you doing.You are new to this site and wait until you gain respect from all of us.Your comments are so negative,so out of touch with the reality, it looks to me you are still in year 1998.Respect man,thats all we want!!!

Gentlemen, since there seems to be an exclusive club of one gender here.
It is nice to see that people are having a debate about this matter, which in my view have shattered many lives and destroyed many others. It is easy for people who have not been effected directly by the late Serbian Dictatorship war ( meaning losing close family or relatives), form all sides to make comments on the fate of the future of the people who actually live there. Most of you seem to be in the west , therefore its easy to sit on the comfort of your table and make radical comments without seeing the reality.
I am sure that many Serbians want better life chances and economic stability as well as Albanians in Kosova.
That matters most to the people on the ground and the recognition without any condition that the lost lives on both parts have been direct results of people who thins that they are above everything. But ‘destiny has a funny ways’ what you wish for someone don’t think it will not haunt you !
In short, I am pleased with the debate as I am sure this doesn’t reflect the views of the majority of the both population , Serbian and Albanian. And please do remember that everything has a ketch (in politics)… Good night to you all

@Jeton
You said that here are tons of the things that almost all multiethnic democracies offer their citizens... and that the above won't be feasible to the current "democratic" government...

You should know that in France -one of the oldest multiethnic democracy in the world- an Albanian, or any foreigner living here for 10 or 15 years is not allow to vote!!

Therefore I agree with you, Serbia, and Tadic/Kostunica government isn’t that much different.

Have a nice day!

Reconciliation starts with small steps on a daily basis in order to build confidence towards the larger issues.

louie,

I am insulting nobody, to make this clear. got it?

it´s the childish behaviour of some here that I find very annoying, since it is driven by misinformation, hatred and for a vast part ignorance, and by the way I have never read sillier accusations than here ( racist, nationalist and other nonsense ).

whether I am new or not is completely irrelevant, so don´t go off-topic.

and last but not least, I am not here to get your or anyone´s respect, so keep your love and peace words for yourself, please. I tell you facts, you don´t like them? okay, I´m fine with that, I provide hyperlinks, you don´t check them? fine with that.
but, please don´t make this really naive mistake to call me a racist or nationalist or hate-induced writer, that would be simply dull.

I am one of the few that are saying that a life together with Albanians in an autonomous KiM is the only solution possible. mixing that up with hate is more than wrong.
by the way, hate is something for weak and undereducated poeple, I don´t consider myself to be neither one of that.

you can respect your parents, your friends or your teacher, but here you should bring up arguments.

so let´s stick to the facts, okay?

Jovan, what is the matter with, are you loosing your cool. What makes you are right and everybody else is driven by misinformation, hatred etc…
You should read and analyze your own comments and you will see that you are the own full of hatred.
By the way, mr.kushtonica is dead wrong if he thinks that UNSC will veto AHTISARI’S proposal. Wait till your lovely smart team of negotiators returns to belgrade after Viena talks concludes. Kosova’s team will return back to Prishtina triumphal.
Princip, Kosova is in a win-win situation.
Also, Princip now has a friend that loves to copy and paste comments over and over regardless of the topic.

jovan,
you will never have my respect!Maybe in your life you are a teacher,or policeman,I can tell from your posts that you won't except nothing that doesn't suits you.You alway threaten like now you were reffering to me "got it".You don't talk like to anyone but in here you have a chance to say what you want.Nobody is scared from you or your comments.Bringing arguments in this site it is difficult sometimes as moderator is not always happy with our links,while you always represent your links that suits you the most.I can tell you one argument that maybe you will like:Relations between serbs and albanians in Kosova/o will never be the same and maybe you can tell me why?!

Serbian posters (with exceptions) constantly attempt to portray the Albanian posters as over emotional and under-educated brutes, not only in this forum but in many others as well. Those that have not lived under Serbs will never understand this, they will never understand the simple fact that many Serbs (with exceptions) consider themselves to be the lords of the earth, the protectors of Christianity and the best thing that ever happened to Europe.

This is particularly the case with rural Serbs.

The lack of imagination on the part of some Serbian posters continues to amaze me. You claim to base your arguments on facts and yet you constantly deny the atrocities that were committed in YOUR name.

Is not Srebrenica a fact? Is not the video showing Bosnian men waiting in row to be executed a fact? Have you ever tried to imagine what it would feel like to wait in a row and walk blindly towards your death. Close your eyes for a minute and imagine what it would feel like to know that you are about to die in 1 minute and your body will be thrown in a insect infested swamp. All your dreams and wished extincted at the hands of some people killing you in the name of the SERBIAN PEOPLE.

Before you call yourself civilized and label other people as over emotional and under-educated, try to imagine the above.

I just can't wait till Djelic comes.

Louie, Nick & Ahmet,

when Jovan and I suggest win-win we imply that there is an opportunity for all the peoples to co-exist and a scenario that can put all the differences behind and where all the people can live with dignity - something that both sides do deserve.

It is clear that you do not wish to come to any true understanding of the term negotiation and are so wound-up in your own rhetoric that you failed to comment on the KLA attack against those who feed you but continue to atttack others opinion on yesterdays news instead.

Stop posting comments against anothers opinion and start real dialogue instead -I be very interested in knowing your take on the attack of on the UN by those it feeds.

One thing i know ,that is a fact that K-albanian and the rest of ppl living ther ,soon to soon will selebrate the INDEPENDENCE....FREDY(UK)

louie,

don´t you see how you are approving what I have written?

you don´t seem to read what is written, but rather to misinterprete in an autistic way of perception!

I will repeat it once more:
I do not insult nor spread allegations nor am I spreading hate-speech.

it´s seems like you are constantly ignoring that, even if it is obvious.

don´t worry about my personal education, I was lucky to enjoy a quite good one, but that´s not the topic here.

Nick:

why are you starting up with this cheap allegations about "Serbs feeling like the lords of the world" and other nonsense, ...as far as I know, it was the Albanians who sided right with those who felt themselves to be the lords of the world, in WW II, correct me if I am wrong on that, please.

when will the Albanians stop their hate-speech and allegations?

can´t you understand that this leads only to new hate and misunderstandings? you call yourself moderate, but you act like you dream of a greater Albania.

is it that you want? or do you want better living conditions for the poeple who live in KiM ( and don´t mix it up with people = only the Albanians )?

because if so, you should really start acting like a responsible person, not like some others here who are disqualifying themselves with the lowest-level hatred.

and last but not least, I don´t remember it anymore, but I think it was Louie who said he wouldn´t respect me...

honestly,I don´t really care about who you respect or who you don´t respect.

I just have a question?
If Serbs claim that Kosova/o is theirs because it was always theirs, where the Albanians came from?
(By the way, I write the Name Kosova/o because it represents the today’s reality there)

“once the Albanians have let that demand go, and realized that broad autonomy is the best solution possible for both sides, such a move by a serbian government will certainly come, ..since it also happened towards Croatia, and I don´t see any difference between Albanians and Croatians. (jovan, 19 February 2007, 23:48)”

Considering Croatia did in fact get independence, didn’t let that demand go, and then ethnically cleansed much of Croatia of Serbs, I would think it would be much easier to apologize to the Albanians. The crimes committed against Serbs by Albanians are relatively mild compared to the injustices we suffered under the Ustashe, past and present. There was no Jasenovac in Kosovo. I’m really upset and even angry about our 10th Century Churches in Kosovo, and our people who lost their lives, but we did piss off the Albanians pretty good in the first place to say the least. I suggest it’s not a good idea to try that sort of approach again.

Jovan, your entire argument is based on the Rule of International Law, which of course I agree with. However, if we are to respect the International Community we should in fact issue an apology first. Blag and I are in perfect agreement on this, and in fact in recent days Blag has twice called on all Serbs here to take such a position vocally. Think of it like a schoolyard fight, and now the principal wants us to apologize. Right or wrong, the principal thinks we’re the bully. We are not a strong enough country at this time to force our will on the international community.

Serbia can not demand respect and a fair hearing on our grievances and then complain that we’re being held to Western Standards of diplomacy. Either we try to work with the UNSC and try to explain why 1244 must be adhered to, or we just tell everyone to go to Hell. An official apology from the Serbian government is just smart politics. If we were to wait until our demands are met, it’d be fairly worthless and would not have the desired healthy effect on International perception of Serbia. It’d only be yet another example of too little too late. We must pay strong attention to Public Relations with the international community. Even Russia has indicated that we must fight for our Serbia using acceptable means of diplomacy. The Albanians merely need to refrain from violence to maintain their standing. We must work and work hard. Waiting for a “messy” resolution to the situation does nothing to protect our history, cultural and people in Kosovo. I want my grandchildren and their grandchildren to be able to go to those churches and see those people and know that this was the cradle and foundation of our civilization. Do not lose sight of the big picture Jovan. If our people leave and our Churches all burn, then we’ve lost everything and there’s no coming back from that, not ever. Serbia simply must adapt, or die, its previous mistakes have already cost our generation dearly. We must change Albanian perception of our historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity. There is no other way.

Jeton, no sane Serb would disagree with you. You of course are absolutely right in what you ask for. I do honestly believe you would get all that and the security you’d need to feel safe, however I completely empathize with your trepidation. My brother in law just moved back to Croatian Krajina, and I’m sure we feel much the same fears that your people do. Had past Serbian governments taken such a stand, we would not be in the dire situation we are in today. I agree that Serbia should be more clear in what they would or would not accept, however presenting the Serbian position as some sort of possible way to return to Milosevic policies probably just confuses the issue. I’m nearly positive that if the International community is involved and gives guarantees of safety to your people, there won’t be a repeat again. If 1244 is to be mostly adhered to, I think the only change to Ahtisaari’s proposal that absolutely needs alteration would be allowing Kosovo to apply to all international organizations. Basically no UN seat. Unfortunately the body of 1244 has already been picked at and violated and ignored, diminishing its validity and legitimacy since it was signed. I’ve always been a pessimist yet I’ve never underestimated the US’s love for violating international law and agreements, and in particular UN resolutions. The absolute most Russia or China can really do for Serbia is block voting rights for Kosovo in the UN, they’d still be able to get at least an observer seat. However, partition really might be the cleanest solution if done under international guidance and support and not through unilateral and messy means. Once again, I’d propose letting Albanian areas in Presevo and Kosovo join Albania proper (if they choose) and letting the Serbian parts stay within Serbia. Give our Church and access to our important Church buildings Vatican-level status that can not be revoked. If Serbia has a Plan B now is the time to make it known. The messy solution of unilateral recognition is not good for either Serbs or Albanians.

Kreshnik, shhhhssshh… That’s ancient history and has no bearing on the current situation, besides its just the sign of a true Western Style Diplomat, ha ha ha…

“If Serbs claim that Kosova/o is theirs because it was always theirs, where the Albanians came from?
(Alan, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 01:32)”

Alan that is a clear misrepresentation of the Serbian position, although very often repeated. We claim that it represents the foundation of our civilization, just as the Jews claim the same for the State of Israel. The Jews certainly were not the first people to live there, chances are the Palestinians were there first long ago before Abraham even left Ur in Iraq. Also on point is the fact that it wasn’t a majority Jewish population for the last 2,000 years, yet they still have a valid right to call it there homeland as they have repeated this over and over again throughout the centuries.

I personally do not subscribe to the theory that it can only belong to one people. It is obviously important and sacred to Albanians as well. That does not preclude Serbians from claiming it as the cradle of the civilization. It is where we formed our collective identity. That’s all, and I do believe Albanians have just as much right to live in peace and prosperity as the Serbians there. Recent actions in that area of the world are truly shameful I believe.

Matthew,

I argue with the rule of law because it´s the strongest of all arguments that civilized societies know.

morally, but I don´t think it´s necessary to mention that, morally all arguments are on the serbian side.

Albanians sided with the Nazi´s in WW II killing all non-albanians, but crying out very loudly, when it comes to present their own suffering, ..but being VERY quiet on those little ugly thruths they are seemingly about to simply ignore on and on...

morally, no reason to give them any independence.
they can live with broad autonomy and rule themselves, the whole world is focused on KiM, there will never again be fighting between Serbs and Albanians, unless the Albanians start it.
so, their only "argument" "we cannot trust the Serbs to attack us again" is so extremely cheesy, that I can only call it as cowardice ...instead of saying clear " I want a greater Albania"... but again, who is accusing who of cowardice? unneccessary to say it, right?
it is so unbelievably naive, what is presented here, that I constantly shake my head when reading it.

they falsify history, by claiming to be the descendants of the illyrians, but if told that it is american scientists, who declared that theory as obsolete, they simply stay quiet... ( who is accusing who of cowardice? )

they spread hate-speech, but accuse others to be racists... it´s so unbelievable, one asks himself whether they really believe that themselves,...I just can´t take it serious, really!

but saying that, I am of course "arrogant" and " that´s the true nature of Serbs, they feel themselves as the lords of the world". need I say more about the level of seriousness of those "arguments"?

so, to say it again, Matthew:

there is simply no need for independence if the Albanians want to rule themselves, but they simply are not brave enought to admit it.

since I do not want to whine around here, like some others with their pathetic nonsense. I write one short sentence:

LAW is the word.

Dear Jovan,
I respect what are you doing.I would do the same if I was in your place.You mentioned the word LAW and I think that Serbia broke the LAW in Kosova.We can argue whole day but everyone knows whats happened.I am not saying kosovan albanians are angels,but in this case they were the victims.I know you are an intelligent person even though you don't care what I think.One thing I didn't like was the way you express yourself, maybe is common thing or maybe you are like that.I will except that in the future,no hard feelings.I liked what Matthew said to you and I believe deep down there are decent serbs even though you don't care about what I think.I condemn anything that kosovan albanians done to the kosovan serbs.We are all humans.We have to start to forget the war and try to find the best solution possible.In this direction I am a bit pesimmistic,I don't think the relations will get better,so if north of Kosova wants to stay with Serbia I don't mind.This is only one opinion and is a pitty that mayority of Kosova can't decide about their future.I would call a referendum in Kosova and ask ordinary people what they think and please spare me usual Kosova is...,etc.I think there won't be much changes in Serbia as they lost Kosova since 1999,my focus would be to make a better life for nonalbanians and I would be very happy if they could live together again.J.Ham and Abdul Aziz,please show more respect to Kosova,because in the name of Kosova you are getting your big salaries.Peace to everyone,it is time to forgive and try to make a better life for our children.Cheerio.

Oh, I find much of that annoying as hell Jovan, but aren’t you just a little tiny bit guilty of exaggerating Albanian crimes as well?

“Albanians sided with the Nazi´s in WW II killing all non-albanians (jovan, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 23:17)”

My understanding is they had one SS division. My understanding is they did in fact engage in atrocities. However, to the best of my knowledge, neither their Italian or German Overlords had to physically restrain them from attacking the population, like they had to do against the Ustashe Units, which by the way were NOT under SS or Nazi command. German Units were under orders not to attack the local Serb population in the Balkans any more than any other rebels. They were worried it would only give support to the resistance. Hence why German and Italian military units actually took on Ustashe Units in firefights to protect the Serbian population. Although the Italians seem to have done it for purely humanitarian reasons and were genuinely horrified at the slaughter. The Croatia Leadership, Army and Church were all united in the complete destruction of the Serbian population under their control. We are all very familiar with the “Kill 1/3, Convert 1/3, and Cleanse 1/3” plan, completed a little later then expected. To the best of my knowledge there was no institutionalized program of slaughter involving most sectors of society in Albania. If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me. I personally think comparing Albanian crimes on an equal basis to the crimes we endured under the Ustashe as offensive as I do when Serbian crimes are compared to the Nazi’s. It’s simply on an entirely different level. Both sides need to take a rational view of the situation and not exaggerate.

I pretty much would like to agree with your facts. I grew up in the US and believe in multiculturalism and I know that here, the Albanians and Serbs have far more in common then separates us. I know for a fact that we are capable of living together peacefully and as friends. However, if we are to live with them in one big Serbia we really must learn to treat them with respect, that’s the only way to build true multiculturalism, which would be absolutely 100% required if a united Serbia is not to descend into chaos and bloodshed. The only way for that to start is for every Serb to treat every Albanian with respect. It has to be at a grassroots level. Since the extremists on both sides are fond of the term “us” and “them”, we all end up whether we like it or not as representatives of our people as a whole. We must start to act like that. I think that if we do not do that, and hold onto Kosovo, it will be under conditions similar to Israel and Palestine. Do you really want our people to live that way? I certainly do not.

I am tired of everyone and their mother telling Serbia what to do and how to feel.Foreign meddling has gone on long enough.Serbia needs to take a stand against international bulling by Brussels/Berlin/Washington.Everyone knows that asking a country to give up its land at gunpoint is criminal.Serbia has the most ethnic diversity compared to ALL the ex-Yugoslav states and is moving forward.Just becuase albanians were killing Serbs and Serbs killing albanians for whatever reason does not justify this land grab plain and simple.The past is the past and Serbia without Kosovo and Metohija will destabalize the whole region and set a presedent that through terror you will eventually get what you want and this will be an unforgivable mistake for the west mark my words

"I am tired of everyone and their mother telling Serbia what to do and how to feel.Foreign meddling has gone on long enough."

I agree 100%.

German Units were under orders not to attack the local Serb population in the Balkans any more than any other rebels. (Matthew, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 03:21)

Matthew,

Before you can act like a facilitator and mediator, you need to grasp the correct history of Serbia in WWII particularly.

The Serbian civilian population were under attack becuase both TITO and Draza Mihailovic launched the first Guirella warfare against the Nazi. You will see Draza Mihailovic in the cover of TIME magazine 1942 if you need to brush up on your Serbian History. the difference was Draza Mihailovic ordered a reduction in resistance in order to save Yugoslav civlians lives as the rule was that for every German killed up to 100 Serbian Civilians were executed. Until you have seen innocent men hung by the noose by the Nazi's, a school of over 700 Serbian Children in Krusevac being murdered with the teacher bravely standing in front. Until you have seen Serbian civilians hung from lampost to lampost seeming to never end on the commerial rail tracks from Belgrade to NIS, please be careful with your statements.

General Nedic has been wrongly portrayed by many that he was a German Quisling. In fact, he was approached by the Germans to accept the position in his own terms only to save the Yugoslav population from disaster from posssibly being led by Croatian Ustashe and or under Bulgarian rule.

German units were restrained by General Nedic not to fire on Serbian civilians but this was the far the exception than the rule give the intense activity of TITO's partisans.

Thank you

“the rule was that for every German killed up to 100 Serbian Civilians were executed.”

Exactly, and how is this any different from Oradour-sur-Glane in France? The Germans had that type of policy in all their territories with any sort of resistance. No one is disputing they were very brutal occupiers and committed countless crimes against civilian populations.

BTW, I have "Od Topole Pa Do Ravne Gore" on my computer, I know who Draza is. I love blasting Cetnik music at the Mexicans next door, they always play their folk music hella loud too.

No where in this article could I read the word Albanian. Kostunica in his day dreaming must have forgotten who constitutes majority of the people of Kosovo.

Kostunica like his mentor Milosevic thinks that he can come to Kosovo and fulfil what Milosevic didn’t. I can tell him and others sharing his opinions that this will never happen.

It is sad to see Serbia represented by such deconstructive, populist, xenophobic and nationalistic politicians.

majority in KosovO was determined by foreign interests. present your serbian passports as identification that the now majority are true citizens of serbia. thank the post war tito for alowing free access to the serbian state.

There is a contradiction in this sentence:

“We will be utmost constructive and warn in time through these talks that it is necessary to adjust the entire Ahtisaari's proposal to the existing international norms”. You cannot be constructive and reject the whole document.
Does he think the creators of this document are not aware of international norms?
In any case, Kostunica will hit a brick wall if goes to Vienna with this attitude. He wants the entire package changed to Serbian wishes and Albanians get …….the middle finger? Gee, who knew that? I guess daydreaming does this to you.

????

I am a British citzen of Serbian decent - surely the same can be said of Serbian citzens of Albanian decent on it's internationally recognised territory. Why should he not refer to Serbian citizens as anything else? If he refered to Albanian citizens then you would be shouting that he disregards you and wants the land not the citizens. He is saying the opposite by only refering to Serbian citizens. Serbia wants it's land and it's citizens it truly believes that there is a way that all the poeples of Serbia can move on together. That does not insult your ethnic heritage but is a matter of fact. No one is saying that you should forget that and it should be manitained but if each side looked and learned about each other they might find that they all face the same difficulties and that together they can overcome the economic degradation that has mired the region.

I believe it is evident that plan A-thisarri will not get to the UN security council wihout the obligation to 1244 as Wisner suggested only last week. Also, it is becoming clearer day by day that only through a genuine and real dialogue will a lasting solution occur. The alternative will at best be a continuation of the Status Quo at worst the consequences are not even worth considering.

The hatred and warped history accounting needs to be put aside and a new understanding created. Why can't all the poeples of Serbia not work on formulating a solution that is win-win? Self-governership for the regions of Southern Serbia (including presevo) which is included fully within the Serbian parliment. There is no reason why Serbia 2007 cannot be a place that shows the rest of the world that ethnic hatred can be overcome and ordinary people can learn to trust each other and understand that there is more that unites us then divides us. All the Serbian citizens (no matter of ethnic heritage) deserve a better future and only by working together to find alternatives to further confrontation and conflicts can a better future come about that is lasting and prosperous for ALL.

Princip,
What you are saying is wonderful.... but too late.
Unfortunatly your co-patriots had different opinion, and for that reason the whole Yugoslavia went to hell.
Too late Princip, too late....
Train's gone. Kosova is finally free.

it's not surprising that you take such a view, after all what do you think we all were born yesterday and pretend that nothing happened. You and your PM have to accept one way or another that it’s lose -lose, no matter what you may believe.

Princip - that was quite a write-up you put there. Unfortunately, world peace would also be ideal so people can carry on with their real issues, namely economics, education and science. But realistically, things have to be addressed and worked out as they are. Serbia's government hasn’t mentioned ANYTHING about Albanians of what you so solemnly speak of. Let's say that Kosova does indeed agree to say with Serbia - what is Serbia prepared to offer exactly? How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians? I am sure that the current so called current democratic government would surely let the parliament represent the people living in Serbia justly, thus giving Albanians AT LEAST 20% of the seats, right? How about a REAL guarantees that a déjà vu of '89 will not be repeated? How about a University autonomous of Belgrade University and independent of Serbia's arm dictating what can or cannot be offered in their curriculum, with freedom of Albanians to study whatever they please? How about regional and decentralized judiciary system and police force, composed of ethnic groups relative to the population in the province? There are tons of the things that almost all multiethnic democracies offer their citizens, but the above should give you a good jumpstart in the food for thought department...

Yeah, I am pretty sure the above won't be feasible to the current "democratic" government either. Let’s not kid ourselves – as much as I would like to believe that things are different from the Milosevic era, actions speak louder than words – the Tadic/Kostunica government isn’t that much different. Then let’s not forget who got the most votes in the elections… do we really need to repeat all of the discrepancies over and over again?
Good day to you all.

Self-governership for the regions of Southern Serbia (including presevo) which is included fully within the Serbian parliment. (Princip, UK, 19 February 2007, 17:15)

The European community has held steadfast to maintaining the pre-civil war borders of Tito.

Partition would have been the best solution of all of the former Yugoslavia given the revived ethnic hatred.

Bosnia Herzegovina is doomed to failure as one state as this is only a mini-Yugoslavia run by the EU.

Jeton, I'd support every one of the points you raised, and I think the majority of Serbs would too. Little to no public support exists in Serbia for physically and officially discriminating against Albanians. Look at the multiethnicity in Vojvodina and you'll see what could happen in the very same state!

I think diplomatically Serbia and her government are stuck with this very bad situation , which was given to them by their great leader Milo-vic. Diplomacy is a tricky business. By being so stuck in one position on Kosova/o, Serbs as a whole are suffering. When Rohan says, “Nothing will change” is telling you people of Serbia “Get over you have lost Kosova/o since 1999 and you have to talk to Millosh about that. (By the way, this is how the Kosova/o name is going to be after few months when it gets independence so I suggest you people to have something about that when going to Vienna).
I just want to know how you people think about the new flag and anthem and symbols of Kosova/o should be like. Any suggestion are Welcomed here.

Jeton wrote:
"How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians? I am sure that the current so called current democratic government would surely let the parliament represent the people living in Serbia et...."

You know.......You're right.
It's too bad that the love of Kosovo from ordinaryy Serbs doesn't reflect on the Government..
But yes, there would be a definate "Grass roots" movement required if Serbia truly wished to keep Kosovo.

Even then, it would be a tumultuous journey..

guys, ( or should I say boys? )

you are just forgetting that Kosovo is Serbia, and K-albanians are a minority within Serbia.and therefore the only justifiable outcome is a broad autonomy, not more. let´s stick to facts.

and, for all of you who are boasting, "train is gone" "too late" ...don´t make the mistake to mix up your wishful thinking with the political possibilities...
otherwise you will be dissappointed in the future...

no consensus in UNSC = no independence

no consensus within EU = certainly no unilateral recognition, you may believe it but I tell you better don´t! so, no consensus in the EU = no independence

just in case of a unilateral recognition = very, very bad situation for K-albanians, Blag explained it a few times, so I won´t repeat it.

and finally, just today mr.Steinmeier critisized the american standpoint in regard to the rocket-shield in eastern europe.
do you think that Germany is so much of a servant to follow all american moves?
I wouldn´t rely on that.

ALL Serbs agree to Jeton's first paragraph as a GREAT first step forward.As an American I am fully prepared to guarantee these things and more or the US will not recognize Serbia's government as legitimate.

Jeton:

you memtioned a point that I think is worth to be emphasized.

you wrote:
" How about an official apology of what the democratically elected Milosevic regime did to Albanians?"

and I can only say, I would welcome such a move towards the Albanians, not only to show them that todays Serbia is a different one, but also to make clear that nobody denies the bad treatment by the Milosevic-Regime.

BUT, and in my eyes thats the crucial point, that won´t happen as long there is an extremist-demand to grab away serbian soil.

once the Albanians have let that demand go, and realized that broad autonomy is the best solution possible for both sides, such a move by a serbian government will certainly come, ..since it also happened towards Croatia, and I don´t see any difference between Albanians and Croatians.

So, Jeton, that will happen, I am sure of it.

but again, if someone wants to take away what is and always was yours, you won´t sit down and drink a coffee with him, right?

as to the minority rights you have mentioned:
Serbia is offering a BROAD autonomy, that means the highest possible level of self-rule, I constantly have the impression the Albanians aren´t told by their leadership what that means.

it means all except any signs of foreign sovereignty over serbian territory.

so, finally, where´s the problem, do you REALLY believe, that the k-albanian population has to fear any serbian attacks? you are kidding!? american forces will stay for the next 90 years, as far as I know that´s the time-line, they leased the area of "Camp-Bondsteel" for that time-period.
and since Serbia is becoming more and more economically important as a CEFTA-centered country and even future-EU-member, you really believe Serbia will make the same mistakes again?
if so, you are not serious.

what makes me wonder is why only the extremist-demand-supporters are posting their threats...instead of moderate Albanians showing some real democratic and international-law-respecting attitude.

luciano,

due to all respect, but I doubt that any american government would care at all, what guarantees you are giving...

what Jeton has asked for will happen, it´s only a question of time.

Its funny how all of the sudden Koshtunica does have a mandate to negotiate. I thought Serbia could not negotiate until it formed its goverment!!

I will enjoy the day when Koshtunica tries to expains to serbs how and why kosovo became independent.

Jovan,how old are you?!Your problem is that you keep underestimating Kosovan Albanians.By insulting them constantly you are showing your true colours.Learn to respect,learn to except,stop this hatred as is going nowhere.Try to build bridges and stop this what are you doing.You are new to this site and wait until you gain respect from all of us.Your comments are so negative,so out of touch with the reality, it looks to me you are still in year 1998.Respect man,thats all we want!!!

Gentlemen, since there seems to be an exclusive club of one gender here.
It is nice to see that people are having a debate about this matter, which in my view have shattered many lives and destroyed many others. It is easy for people who have not been effected directly by the late Serbian Dictatorship war ( meaning losing close family or relatives), form all sides to make comments on the fate of the future of the people who actually live there. Most of you seem to be in the west , therefore its easy to sit on the comfort of your table and make radical comments without seeing the reality.
I am sure that many Serbians want better life chances and economic stability as well as Albanians in Kosova.
That matters most to the people on the ground and the recognition without any condition that the lost lives on both parts have been direct results of people who thins that they are above everything. But ‘destiny has a funny ways’ what you wish for someone don’t think it will not haunt you !
In short, I am pleased with the debate as I am sure this doesn’t reflect the views of the majority of the both population , Serbian and Albanian. And please do remember that everything has a ketch (in politics)… Good night to you all

@Jeton
You said that here are tons of the things that almost all multiethnic democracies offer their citizens... and that the above won't be feasible to the current "democratic" government...

You should know that in France -one of the oldest multiethnic democracy in the world- an Albanian, or any foreigner living here for 10 or 15 years is not allow to vote!!

Therefore I agree with you, Serbia, and Tadic/Kostunica government isn’t that much different.

Have a nice day!

Reconciliation starts with small steps on a daily basis in order to build confidence towards the larger issues.

louie,

I am insulting nobody, to make this clear. got it?

it´s the childish behaviour of some here that I find very annoying, since it is driven by misinformation, hatred and for a vast part ignorance, and by the way I have never read sillier accusations than here ( racist, nationalist and other nonsense ).

whether I am new or not is completely irrelevant, so don´t go off-topic.

and last but not least, I am not here to get your or anyone´s respect, so keep your love and peace words for yourself, please. I tell you facts, you don´t like them? okay, I´m fine with that, I provide hyperlinks, you don´t check them? fine with that.
but, please don´t make this really naive mistake to call me a racist or nationalist or hate-induced writer, that would be simply dull.

I am one of the few that are saying that a life together with Albanians in an autonomous KiM is the only solution possible. mixing that up with hate is more than wrong.
by the way, hate is something for weak and undereducated poeple, I don´t consider myself to be neither one of that.

you can respect your parents, your friends or your teacher, but here you should bring up arguments.

so let´s stick to the facts, okay?

Jovan, what is the matter with, are you loosing your cool. What makes you are right and everybody else is driven by misinformation, hatred etc…
You should read and analyze your own comments and you will see that you are the own full of hatred.
By the way, mr.kushtonica is dead wrong if he thinks that UNSC will veto AHTISARI’S proposal. Wait till your lovely smart team of negotiators returns to belgrade after Viena talks concludes. Kosova’s team will return back to Prishtina triumphal.
Princip, Kosova is in a win-win situation.
Also, Princip now has a friend that loves to copy and paste comments over and over regardless of the topic.

jovan,
you will never have my respect!Maybe in your life you are a teacher,or policeman,I can tell from your posts that you won't except nothing that doesn't suits you.You alway threaten like now you were reffering to me "got it".You don't talk like to anyone but in here you have a chance to say what you want.Nobody is scared from you or your comments.Bringing arguments in this site it is difficult sometimes as moderator is not always happy with our links,while you always represent your links that suits you the most.I can tell you one argument that maybe you will like:Relations between serbs and albanians in Kosova/o will never be the same and maybe you can tell me why?!

Serbian posters (with exceptions) constantly attempt to portray the Albanian posters as over emotional and under-educated brutes, not only in this forum but in many others as well. Those that have not lived under Serbs will never understand this, they will never understand the simple fact that many Serbs (with exceptions) consider themselves to be the lords of the earth, the protectors of Christianity and the best thing that ever happened to Europe.

This is particularly the case with rural Serbs.

The lack of imagination on the part of some Serbian posters continues to amaze me. You claim to base your arguments on facts and yet you constantly deny the atrocities that were committed in YOUR name.

Is not Srebrenica a fact? Is not the video showing Bosnian men waiting in row to be executed a fact? Have you ever tried to imagine what it would feel like to wait in a row and walk blindly towards your death. Close your eyes for a minute and imagine what it would feel like to know that you are about to die in 1 minute and your body will be thrown in a insect infested swamp. All your dreams and wished extincted at the hands of some people killing you in the name of the SERBIAN PEOPLE.

Before you call yourself civilized and label other people as over emotional and under-educated, try to imagine the above.

I just can't wait till Djelic comes.

Louie, Nick & Ahmet,

when Jovan and I suggest win-win we imply that there is an opportunity for all the peoples to co-exist and a scenario that can put all the differences behind and where all the people can live with dignity - something that both sides do deserve.

It is clear that you do not wish to come to any true understanding of the term negotiation and are so wound-up in your own rhetoric that you failed to comment on the KLA attack against those who feed you but continue to atttack others opinion on yesterdays news instead.

Stop posting comments against anothers opinion and start real dialogue instead -I be very interested in knowing your take on the attack of on the UN by those it feeds.

One thing i know ,that is a fact that K-albanian and the rest of ppl living ther ,soon to soon will selebrate the INDEPENDENCE....FREDY(UK)

louie,

don´t you see how you are approving what I have written?

you don´t seem to read what is written, but rather to misinterprete in an autistic way of perception!

I will repeat it once more:
I do not insult nor spread allegations nor am I spreading hate-speech.

it´s seems like you are constantly ignoring that, even if it is obvious.

don´t worry about my personal education, I was lucky to enjoy a quite good one, but that´s not the topic here.

Nick:

why are you starting up with this cheap allegations about "Serbs feeling like the lords of the world" and other nonsense, ...as far as I know, it was the Albanians who sided right with those who felt themselves to be the lords of the world, in WW II, correct me if I am wrong on that, please.

when will the Albanians stop their hate-speech and allegations?

can´t you understand that this leads only to new hate and misunderstandings? you call yourself moderate, but you act like you dream of a greater Albania.

is it that you want? or do you want better living conditions for the poeple who live in KiM ( and don´t mix it up with people = only the Albanians )?

because if so, you should really start acting like a responsible person, not like some others here who are disqualifying themselves with the lowest-level hatred.

and last but not least, I don´t remember it anymore, but I think it was Louie who said he wouldn´t respect me...

honestly,I don´t really care about who you respect or who you don´t respect.

I just have a question?
If Serbs claim that Kosova/o is theirs because it was always theirs, where the Albanians came from?
(By the way, I write the Name Kosova/o because it represents the today’s reality there)

“once the Albanians have let that demand go, and realized that broad autonomy is the best solution possible for both sides, such a move by a serbian government will certainly come, ..since it also happened towards Croatia, and I don´t see any difference between Albanians and Croatians. (jovan, 19 February 2007, 23:48)”

Considering Croatia did in fact get independence, didn’t let that demand go, and then ethnically cleansed much of Croatia of Serbs, I would think it would be much easier to apologize to the Albanians. The crimes committed against Serbs by Albanians are relatively mild compared to the injustices we suffered under the Ustashe, past and present. There was no Jasenovac in Kosovo. I’m really upset and even angry about our 10th Century Churches in Kosovo, and our people who lost their lives, but we did piss off the Albanians pretty good in the first place to say the least. I suggest it’s not a good idea to try that sort of approach again.

Jovan, your entire argument is based on the Rule of International Law, which of course I agree with. However, if we are to respect the International Community we should in fact issue an apology first. Blag and I are in perfect agreement on this, and in fact in recent days Blag has twice called on all Serbs here to take such a position vocally. Think of it like a schoolyard fight, and now the principal wants us to apologize. Right or wrong, the principal thinks we’re the bully. We are not a strong enough country at this time to force our will on the international community.

Serbia can not demand respect and a fair hearing on our grievances and then complain that we’re being held to Western Standards of diplomacy. Either we try to work with the UNSC and try to explain why 1244 must be adhered to, or we just tell everyone to go to Hell. An official apology from the Serbian government is just smart politics. If we were to wait until our demands are met, it’d be fairly worthless and would not have the desired healthy effect on International perception of Serbia. It’d only be yet another example of too little too late. We must pay strong attention to Public Relations with the international community. Even Russia has indicated that we must fight for our Serbia using acceptable means of diplomacy. The Albanians merely need to refrain from violence to maintain their standing. We must work and work hard. Waiting for a “messy” resolution to the situation does nothing to protect our history, cultural and people in Kosovo. I want my grandchildren and their grandchildren to be able to go to those churches and see those people and know that this was the cradle and foundation of our civilization. Do not lose sight of the big picture Jovan. If our people leave and our Churches all burn, then we’ve lost everything and there’s no coming back from that, not ever. Serbia simply must adapt, or die, its previous mistakes have already cost our generation dearly. We must change Albanian perception of our historical sites from one of personal liability to one of economic necessity. There is no other way.

Jeton, no sane Serb would disagree with you. You of course are absolutely right in what you ask for. I do honestly believe you would get all that and the security you’d need to feel safe, however I completely empathize with your trepidation. My brother in law just moved back to Croatian Krajina, and I’m sure we feel much the same fears that your people do. Had past Serbian governments taken such a stand, we would not be in the dire situation we are in today. I agree that Serbia should be more clear in what they would or would not accept, however presenting the Serbian position as some sort of possible way to return to Milosevic policies probably just confuses the issue. I’m nearly positive that if the International community is involved and gives guarantees of safety to your people, there won’t be a repeat again. If 1244 is to be mostly adhered to, I think the only change to Ahtisaari’s proposal that absolutely needs alteration would be allowing Kosovo to apply to all international organizations. Basically no UN seat. Unfortunately the body of 1244 has already been picked at and violated and ignored, diminishing its validity and legitimacy since it was signed. I’ve always been a pessimist yet I’ve never underestimated the US’s love for violating international law and agreements, and in particular UN resolutions. The absolute most Russia or China can really do for Serbia is block voting rights for Kosovo in the UN, they’d still be able to get at least an observer seat. However, partition really might be the cleanest solution if done under international guidance and support and not through unilateral and messy means. Once again, I’d propose letting Albanian areas in Presevo and Kosovo join Albania proper (if they choose) and letting the Serbian parts stay within Serbia. Give our Church and access to our important Church buildings Vatican-level status that can not be revoked. If Serbia has a Plan B now is the time to make it known. The messy solution of unilateral recognition is not good for either Serbs or Albanians.

Kreshnik, shhhhssshh… That’s ancient history and has no bearing on the current situation, besides its just the sign of a true Western Style Diplomat, ha ha ha…

“If Serbs claim that Kosova/o is theirs because it was always theirs, where the Albanians came from?
(Alan, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 01:32)”

Alan that is a clear misrepresentation of the Serbian position, although very often repeated. We claim that it represents the foundation of our civilization, just as the Jews claim the same for the State of Israel. The Jews certainly were not the first people to live there, chances are the Palestinians were there first long ago before Abraham even left Ur in Iraq. Also on point is the fact that it wasn’t a majority Jewish population for the last 2,000 years, yet they still have a valid right to call it there homeland as they have repeated this over and over again throughout the centuries.

I personally do not subscribe to the theory that it can only belong to one people. It is obviously important and sacred to Albanians as well. That does not preclude Serbians from claiming it as the cradle of the civilization. It is where we formed our collective identity. That’s all, and I do believe Albanians have just as much right to live in peace and prosperity as the Serbians there. Recent actions in that area of the world are truly shameful I believe.

Matthew,

I argue with the rule of law because it´s the strongest of all arguments that civilized societies know.

morally, but I don´t think it´s necessary to mention that, morally all arguments are on the serbian side.

Albanians sided with the Nazi´s in WW II killing all non-albanians, but crying out very loudly, when it comes to present their own suffering, ..but being VERY quiet on those little ugly thruths they are seemingly about to simply ignore on and on...

morally, no reason to give them any independence.
they can live with broad autonomy and rule themselves, the whole world is focused on KiM, there will never again be fighting between Serbs and Albanians, unless the Albanians start it.
so, their only "argument" "we cannot trust the Serbs to attack us again" is so extremely cheesy, that I can only call it as cowardice ...instead of saying clear " I want a greater Albania"... but again, who is accusing who of cowardice? unneccessary to say it, right?
it is so unbelievably naive, what is presented here, that I constantly shake my head when reading it.

they falsify history, by claiming to be the descendants of the illyrians, but if told that it is american scientists, who declared that theory as obsolete, they simply stay quiet... ( who is accusing who of cowardice? )

they spread hate-speech, but accuse others to be racists... it´s so unbelievable, one asks himself whether they really believe that themselves,...I just can´t take it serious, really!

but saying that, I am of course "arrogant" and " that´s the true nature of Serbs, they feel themselves as the lords of the world". need I say more about the level of seriousness of those "arguments"?

so, to say it again, Matthew:

there is simply no need for independence if the Albanians want to rule themselves, but they simply are not brave enought to admit it.

since I do not want to whine around here, like some others with their pathetic nonsense. I write one short sentence:

LAW is the word.

Dear Jovan,
I respect what are you doing.I would do the same if I was in your place.You mentioned the word LAW and I think that Serbia broke the LAW in Kosova.We can argue whole day but everyone knows whats happened.I am not saying kosovan albanians are angels,but in this case they were the victims.I know you are an intelligent person even though you don't care what I think.One thing I didn't like was the way you express yourself, maybe is common thing or maybe you are like that.I will except that in the future,no hard feelings.I liked what Matthew said to you and I believe deep down there are decent serbs even though you don't care about what I think.I condemn anything that kosovan albanians done to the kosovan serbs.We are all humans.We have to start to forget the war and try to find the best solution possible.In this direction I am a bit pesimmistic,I don't think the relations will get better,so if north of Kosova wants to stay with Serbia I don't mind.This is only one opinion and is a pitty that mayority of Kosova can't decide about their future.I would call a referendum in Kosova and ask ordinary people what they think and please spare me usual Kosova is...,etc.I think there won't be much changes in Serbia as they lost Kosova since 1999,my focus would be to make a better life for nonalbanians and I would be very happy if they could live together again.J.Ham and Abdul Aziz,please show more respect to Kosova,because in the name of Kosova you are getting your big salaries.Peace to everyone,it is time to forgive and try to make a better life for our children.Cheerio.

Oh, I find much of that annoying as hell Jovan, but aren’t you just a little tiny bit guilty of exaggerating Albanian crimes as well?

“Albanians sided with the Nazi´s in WW II killing all non-albanians (jovan, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 23:17)”

My understanding is they had one SS division. My understanding is they did in fact engage in atrocities. However, to the best of my knowledge, neither their Italian or German Overlords had to physically restrain them from attacking the population, like they had to do against the Ustashe Units, which by the way were NOT under SS or Nazi command. German Units were under orders not to attack the local Serb population in the Balkans any more than any other rebels. They were worried it would only give support to the resistance. Hence why German and Italian military units actually took on Ustashe Units in firefights to protect the Serbian population. Although the Italians seem to have done it for purely humanitarian reasons and were genuinely horrified at the slaughter. The Croatia Leadership, Army and Church were all united in the complete destruction of the Serbian population under their control. We are all very familiar with the “Kill 1/3, Convert 1/3, and Cleanse 1/3” plan, completed a little later then expected. To the best of my knowledge there was no institutionalized program of slaughter involving most sectors of society in Albania. If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me. I personally think comparing Albanian crimes on an equal basis to the crimes we endured under the Ustashe as offensive as I do when Serbian crimes are compared to the Nazi’s. It’s simply on an entirely different level. Both sides need to take a rational view of the situation and not exaggerate.

I pretty much would like to agree with your facts. I grew up in the US and believe in multiculturalism and I know that here, the Albanians and Serbs have far more in common then separates us. I know for a fact that we are capable of living together peacefully and as friends. However, if we are to live with them in one big Serbia we really must learn to treat them with respect, that’s the only way to build true multiculturalism, which would be absolutely 100% required if a united Serbia is not to descend into chaos and bloodshed. The only way for that to start is for every Serb to treat every Albanian with respect. It has to be at a grassroots level. Since the extremists on both sides are fond of the term “us” and “them”, we all end up whether we like it or not as representatives of our people as a whole. We must start to act like that. I think that if we do not do that, and hold onto Kosovo, it will be under conditions similar to Israel and Palestine. Do you really want our people to live that way? I certainly do not.

I am tired of everyone and their mother telling Serbia what to do and how to feel.Foreign meddling has gone on long enough.Serbia needs to take a stand against international bulling by Brussels/Berlin/Washington.Everyone knows that asking a country to give up its land at gunpoint is criminal.Serbia has the most ethnic diversity compared to ALL the ex-Yugoslav states and is moving forward.Just becuase albanians were killing Serbs and Serbs killing albanians for whatever reason does not justify this land grab plain and simple.The past is the past and Serbia without Kosovo and Metohija will destabalize the whole region and set a presedent that through terror you will eventually get what you want and this will be an unforgivable mistake for the west mark my words

"I am tired of everyone and their mother telling Serbia what to do and how to feel.Foreign meddling has gone on long enough."

I agree 100%.

German Units were under orders not to attack the local Serb population in the Balkans any more than any other rebels. (Matthew, Thursday, 22 February, 2007, 03:21)

Matthew,

Before you can act like a facilitator and mediator, you need to grasp the correct history of Serbia in WWII particularly.

The Serbian civilian population were under attack becuase both TITO and Draza Mihailovic launched the first Guirella warfare against the Nazi. You will see Draza Mihailovic in the cover of TIME magazine 1942 if you need to brush up on your Serbian History. the difference was Draza Mihailovic ordered a reduction in resistance in order to save Yugoslav civlians lives as the rule was that for every German killed up to 100 Serbian Civilians were executed. Until you have seen innocent men hung by the noose by the Nazi's, a school of over 700 Serbian Children in Krusevac being murdered with the teacher bravely standing in front. Until you have seen Serbian civilians hung from lampost to lampost seeming to never end on the commerial rail tracks from Belgrade to NIS, please be careful with your statements.

General Nedic has been wrongly portrayed by many that he was a German Quisling. In fact, he was approached by the Germans to accept the position in his own terms only to save the Yugoslav population from disaster from posssibly being led by Croatian Ustashe and or under Bulgarian rule.

German units were restrained by General Nedic not to fire on Serbian civilians but this was the far the exception than the rule give the intense activity of TITO's partisans.

Thank you

“the rule was that for every German killed up to 100 Serbian Civilians were executed.”

Exactly, and how is this any different from Oradour-sur-Glane in France? The Germans had that type of policy in all their territories with any sort of resistance. No one is disputing they were very brutal occupiers and committed countless crimes against civilian populations.

BTW, I have "Od Topole Pa Do Ravne Gore" on my computer, I know who Draza is. I love blasting Cetnik music at the Mexicans next door, they always play their folk music hella loud too.