“UN to decide if Vienna talks fail”

"If Ahtisaari suggested Kosovo’s reintegration into the Serbian state that would mean war"

- so in other words the EU as represented by Germany as the current presidency is willing to be blackmailed and is happy to set a precedence of appeasing Terrorism but does not want this to be used anywhere else!!! He says the SRS are evil but then if they did come to power in some coalition with DSS-NS I wonder which threat of war would be the one that is appeased. Is this guy aware of the words that come out of his mouth?

Even the Swedes are going do-lally Bildt is again suggesting a link of 15% of Serbia for EU membership - Swedish FM proposes EU reward if Serbia approves Kosovo plan
[
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/International/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?ProgramID=2054&Nyheter=&artikel=1210759
]

Wow that will get a resounding yes - I don't think so.

All it suggests is that there is panic in the EU about the dilema that the US would possibly recognise (loosing it's final ounce of international credibility) an ILLEGAL unilateral declaration for Southern Kosovo & Metohija but that the EU will be unable to act collectively amongst it's 27 members as each one can veto any foreign policy decision given the current voting arrangements (the failed consitution would have had majority voting).

The Russians have said it would be "futile & counterproductive" to present plan Athisarri as it stood on the 2nd of Feb. It will however, be acceptable only if the obligation of Serbia's sovereignity is respected.

Oh by the way it is now very well documented that the US were the drivers of the Kosovo war - arming and training the KLA - Clinton, Aldbright and Holbrooke are all on record for their intentions so maybe the Serbian govet. should be re-iterating the same words back to Steinmeier "The room for possible solutions, in view of the war" Clinton initiated by covert operations with the CIA and KLA "and the realities that stem from that, is very small"

Lets hope a real dialogue can be found that ensures things don't get so messy and a real and lasting solution can be found.

WIn-win is still possible lets hope the US realise that they do little favours to the ethnic-Albanians is stringing them along and not allowing a real compromise.

Diplomatically precise!
Realistic.

Milosevic is gone and there is no need to punish democratic Serbia for the actions of that man. Maybe Germany should go back to having East and West Germany because of Hitler?

Germany has had a questionable role in the separation of Yugoslavia. I would suggest that Germany is not the country to listen to on this matter.

The bombing was justified on the basis of humanitarian intervention - if it turns out to be a plot to conquer territory and take it away from its legal owners that will rightly destroy trust in NATO and the UN and deprive of them of mandate for humanitarian intervention in the future.

Princip

Can you do us all a favour and stop using that 'win-win' phrase. There is no win-win situation, anything less than independence is a loss for albanians. Everybody in this website keeps telling you that there is no win win and to stop using it.

and since you seem so keen on this 'win-win' thing, ellaborate a bit more as to what this solution might be.

mr.Steinmeier knows very well, that there is no consensus, within the Eu as well as within the UNSC.
so, his words should be seen in regard to that.

if there should be a war in KiM, it would be a severe mistake for the Albanians living there, remember there are no Russians there to shoot at. they would only mess it up.

they should know that.

there is no such thing like a "supervised independence", just like there is no such thing as a half-pregnant woman. it´s either the one or the other.

in the Kosovo-matter it is clear that it would be less complicated to handle the Albanian rioters than to risk severe consequences within the EU, not to mention the UN.

by the way: I think the Albanians are only bragging around, they are not silly and know very well themselves that they would loose far more than they could win.

so, nothing new at all.

thanks for entertaining us mr. Steinmeier.

i think we´ve heard the real solution for south-serbia, namely none and prolonging of the status quo. actually, steinmeier is beging for a russian veto to hide the kosovo-file for a few more years.

his anouncement of no bilateral action from eu is showing a clear policy-shift of germany (after italy and france, also contact-group-members).

serbia could live with it and would search fast nato-integration for a military intervention (the taiwan-model, no one knows when, but everybody knows how and where taiwan will end) and the west still thinks it will leave it´s middle-east adventures without political, military and economical damage.

there is no other way to integrate serbia into eu and nato but to drop the albanians.

this can´t work over night and will be a long process!

a good sign for south-serbia that the realo´s in diverse westerns regime´s are gaining importance.

I am dismayed with the stand of many people on this issue, Kosova since the war in late 1990’s between the dictators and Albanians has in fact been an independent state where al state institutions have been formed and are recognised by the international community.
Lets focus on the future rather than cling to the past. The only way forward is the integration in to the EU.
Finally, remember that the majority of Kosovo’s population are Albanian who unanimously support the independence. Perhaps few of you need to research more on what the ‘democracy’ actually mean.

Democracy does not mean every small province getting its own way - it means the majority governing within its legal territory.

right so, Bob. but you forget, the Albanians haven´t got it yet.
it takes further time to realize it.

to raso:
I had something similar in mind, but I keep myself back with predictions, that´s more an albanian phenomenon here in this forum...

but your point is not so false...

Bob, it does mean exactly that when a government unleashes the wrath of extermination against an ethnic group of its people.

To Bob and Jovan:
"Democracy does not mean every small province getting its own way - it means the majority governing within its legal territory"

So now you know the defenition of democracy??When we wanted to govern our own territory you rejected that? I think it might be a bit to late for that... You really think that Albanians can live under Serbian rule again after their family were killed by their neighbours (serbians)...
You want to know who killed my grandparents and burned down my house? My first door neighbours (that being serbians)....
Probably most of you serbians commenting here are from diaspora or from serbia and you don't know what went on....I sugest you ask a Serbian from Kosovo what they did? how many they killed? and whether we had any rights as Albanians?

Then you complain about serbs leaving Kosovo? Of course they will? You think they will be able to face us after what they did? The ones left are the ones that didn't do anything or had no where to go? believe me they will find a place to go once Kosovo get its indipendence.

It is highly unlikely that the UN will accept granting independence that would mean, in other words, allowing the minimal demands of a country of 10 million to be sacrificed for the maximalist demands of less than 1.5 million Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija.

The serbian leadership will be preparing the ground work in the talks that will begin tomorrow to ensure that a real solution can be found before it all gets messy beyond recognition.

Russia is now in the position where the best interest is served by denying this failed plan A-thisarri as any recognition by the US of an ILLEGAL southern Kosovo & Metohija will not be reciprocated by the EU.

For what kind of democratic Serbia you are talking Bob?! Serbian people is still so strongly following Milosevic and its ideology or may be we are unfairly blaming him when he was simply presenting in a best way ideology of Serbian people...

"If Ahtisaari suggested Kosovo’s reintegration into the Serbian state that would mean war"

- so in other words the EU as represented by Germany as the current presidency is willing to be blackmailed and is happy to set a precedence of appeasing Terrorism but does not want this to be used anywhere else!!! He says the SRS are evil but then if they did come to power in some coalition with DSS-NS I wonder which threat of war would be the one that is appeased. Is this guy aware of the words that come out of his mouth?

Even the Swedes are going do-lally Bildt is again suggesting a link of 15% of Serbia for EU membership - Swedish FM proposes EU reward if Serbia approves Kosovo plan
[
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/International/nyhetssidor/artikel.asp?ProgramID=2054&Nyheter=&artikel=1210759
]

Wow that will get a resounding yes - I don't think so.

All it suggests is that there is panic in the EU about the dilema that the US would possibly recognise (loosing it's final ounce of international credibility) an ILLEGAL unilateral declaration for Southern Kosovo & Metohija but that the EU will be unable to act collectively amongst it's 27 members as each one can veto any foreign policy decision given the current voting arrangements (the failed consitution would have had majority voting).

The Russians have said it would be "futile & counterproductive" to present plan Athisarri as it stood on the 2nd of Feb. It will however, be acceptable only if the obligation of Serbia's sovereignity is respected.

Oh by the way it is now very well documented that the US were the drivers of the Kosovo war - arming and training the KLA - Clinton, Aldbright and Holbrooke are all on record for their intentions so maybe the Serbian govet. should be re-iterating the same words back to Steinmeier "The room for possible solutions, in view of the war" Clinton initiated by covert operations with the CIA and KLA "and the realities that stem from that, is very small"

Lets hope a real dialogue can be found that ensures things don't get so messy and a real and lasting solution can be found.

WIn-win is still possible lets hope the US realise that they do little favours to the ethnic-Albanians is stringing them along and not allowing a real compromise.

Diplomatically precise!
Realistic.

Milosevic is gone and there is no need to punish democratic Serbia for the actions of that man. Maybe Germany should go back to having East and West Germany because of Hitler?

Germany has had a questionable role in the separation of Yugoslavia. I would suggest that Germany is not the country to listen to on this matter.

The bombing was justified on the basis of humanitarian intervention - if it turns out to be a plot to conquer territory and take it away from its legal owners that will rightly destroy trust in NATO and the UN and deprive of them of mandate for humanitarian intervention in the future.

Princip

Can you do us all a favour and stop using that 'win-win' phrase. There is no win-win situation, anything less than independence is a loss for albanians. Everybody in this website keeps telling you that there is no win win and to stop using it.

and since you seem so keen on this 'win-win' thing, ellaborate a bit more as to what this solution might be.

mr.Steinmeier knows very well, that there is no consensus, within the Eu as well as within the UNSC.
so, his words should be seen in regard to that.

if there should be a war in KiM, it would be a severe mistake for the Albanians living there, remember there are no Russians there to shoot at. they would only mess it up.

they should know that.

there is no such thing like a "supervised independence", just like there is no such thing as a half-pregnant woman. it´s either the one or the other.

in the Kosovo-matter it is clear that it would be less complicated to handle the Albanian rioters than to risk severe consequences within the EU, not to mention the UN.

by the way: I think the Albanians are only bragging around, they are not silly and know very well themselves that they would loose far more than they could win.

so, nothing new at all.

thanks for entertaining us mr. Steinmeier.

i think we´ve heard the real solution for south-serbia, namely none and prolonging of the status quo. actually, steinmeier is beging for a russian veto to hide the kosovo-file for a few more years.

his anouncement of no bilateral action from eu is showing a clear policy-shift of germany (after italy and france, also contact-group-members).

serbia could live with it and would search fast nato-integration for a military intervention (the taiwan-model, no one knows when, but everybody knows how and where taiwan will end) and the west still thinks it will leave it´s middle-east adventures without political, military and economical damage.

there is no other way to integrate serbia into eu and nato but to drop the albanians.

this can´t work over night and will be a long process!

a good sign for south-serbia that the realo´s in diverse westerns regime´s are gaining importance.

I am dismayed with the stand of many people on this issue, Kosova since the war in late 1990’s between the dictators and Albanians has in fact been an independent state where al state institutions have been formed and are recognised by the international community.
Lets focus on the future rather than cling to the past. The only way forward is the integration in to the EU.
Finally, remember that the majority of Kosovo’s population are Albanian who unanimously support the independence. Perhaps few of you need to research more on what the ‘democracy’ actually mean.

Democracy does not mean every small province getting its own way - it means the majority governing within its legal territory.

right so, Bob. but you forget, the Albanians haven´t got it yet.
it takes further time to realize it.

to raso:
I had something similar in mind, but I keep myself back with predictions, that´s more an albanian phenomenon here in this forum...

but your point is not so false...

Bob, it does mean exactly that when a government unleashes the wrath of extermination against an ethnic group of its people.

To Bob and Jovan:
"Democracy does not mean every small province getting its own way - it means the majority governing within its legal territory"

So now you know the defenition of democracy??When we wanted to govern our own territory you rejected that? I think it might be a bit to late for that... You really think that Albanians can live under Serbian rule again after their family were killed by their neighbours (serbians)...
You want to know who killed my grandparents and burned down my house? My first door neighbours (that being serbians)....
Probably most of you serbians commenting here are from diaspora or from serbia and you don't know what went on....I sugest you ask a Serbian from Kosovo what they did? how many they killed? and whether we had any rights as Albanians?

Then you complain about serbs leaving Kosovo? Of course they will? You think they will be able to face us after what they did? The ones left are the ones that didn't do anything or had no where to go? believe me they will find a place to go once Kosovo get its indipendence.

It is highly unlikely that the UN will accept granting independence that would mean, in other words, allowing the minimal demands of a country of 10 million to be sacrificed for the maximalist demands of less than 1.5 million Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija.

The serbian leadership will be preparing the ground work in the talks that will begin tomorrow to ensure that a real solution can be found before it all gets messy beyond recognition.

Russia is now in the position where the best interest is served by denying this failed plan A-thisarri as any recognition by the US of an ILLEGAL southern Kosovo & Metohija will not be reciprocated by the EU.

For what kind of democratic Serbia you are talking Bob?! Serbian people is still so strongly following Milosevic and its ideology or may be we are unfairly blaming him when he was simply presenting in a best way ideology of Serbian people...