Pešić: Serbia lost Kosovo

just another voice in order to keep the albanians KiM calm...
thats all LDP is good for right now.

it´s better to be honest and tell them the truth instead of decieving them, since they are also serbian citizen and therefore should not be treated as little children.

reconciliation will take place, within serbian borders.

it´s better to realize it sooner than later.

Weak up Serbia!!!
You don’t need to overhear. You just need to wake up and understand that Kosova has been lost for Serbia long time ago.

Jovan

you seem to live dream-world, serbian citizens, we never were and never we'll be, where did that come from now, there is nothing that ties as in any way with serbia, as far as i know the borders that your mup cant even set foot in are there, neither can oyour army, nor anyone who disrespects our sovran country.
i mean honestly one way or another,wheather you like it or not, belgrad has lost the big idea of "greater serbia" for once af for all, and Kosova is just like icing on the cake for all that reagion.
Pesic is only telling the truth that most nationalist serbs are choosing to ignor and only to distebilise that region once again.

If Kosovo had been been of such an importance for the Serbs, the Craddle of their civilization, they say, they should have taken a better care of it and of the Albanian minority as well. What Milosevic has done in 1989 0r 90, when he took away the autonomous status from the Albanian majority, was the nail in the coffin, as we say in French.

How the West must wish Pesic is the prime minister! Unfortunately she is not.

Speaking as an outsider, Serbia did lose physical control over Kosovo in 1999. But legally her sovereignty remains intact as long as 1244 is not repealed or superceded.

In the same analogy, the Syrians lost physical control of their Golan Heights to Israel in 1967 but the UN continues to recognize Syria's sovereignty over the area.

Actually to be more precise, Serbia did not lose physical control over all of Kosovo. The Serbs still hold the northern part, and the Albanians never could control that area since 1999. All the recipe for an eventual de facto partition.

artan:

you make me smile!

who is actually living in a dream-world? can you dig it?

you are still a serbian citizen, since the territory you live on is serbian soil.

the fact that you don´t like the truth doesn´t change a thing!

fortunately there will be more mature Albanians emerging on the political scene, than you are.
it´s only a matter of time.

since I think, judging by your written "behaviour", you are still young and will very likely witness it.

it is not your country, it never was and will never be.
you can rely on that.

Jovan: this is exactly the kind of response that shows why the international community has all reasons NOT to side with Serbia on this subject.
As long as Serbs like yourself keep claiming Serbia (including Kosovo) is 'of the Serbs', instead of saying that it is equally as much the country of Albanians (in Kososo, Presevo Valley or of the Hungarians in Vojvodina for that matter...) THEN there might be a future together.
I think if all Serbian governements since the fall of Milosevic had tried to come with real initiatives to reintegrate Kosovo, the current position of Serbia in the negotiations would have been much, much better.
It's easy to keep saying something is yours, while not doing much constructive at the same time.
Show something positive, you'll get something positive in return. Insisting on historical rights is not enough. Not to mention the fact that a full return of Kosovo to Serbian control would mean human, economic and political disaster for Serbia.
Sometimes its better NOT to get what you whish for...

My bet is still on a division. And let's move forward after that. Show the Albanians that maybe in the long run independence wasn't such a good idea after all...

I thank God/Allah that Serbia doesn't have leaders as smart as Pesic otherwise Kosovo would probably never see its Independece.

to the person calling himself selfrightously "corrector":

the problem is, you are desperately bending the truth only to support your demands, even if every sound person would disagree...
in such case, the person dissagreeing is simply called a Serb ( maybe in additional mentioning of racism, myth-believing, Milosevic et cetera )

it is so cheap, and though most of you are believing that this naive kind of propaganda works, you are not realizing that nobody shares your flawed view.

don´t you have better arguments? or, ..arguments at all?

I don´t wanna act arrogant, but, dude, you don´t seem to be in the position to correct anyone here.

I´ll repeat it once more that even you can dig it:
all poeple who live there have a right to live there, since they are serbian citizens.
but those serbian citizens of albanian ethnicity simply do not have the right to take away the territory from the majority of serbian citizens. it´s that simple.
you only refuse to see it.
but in the end, that´s only your own problem, since interantional sympathies are fading...

and as a last point:
nobody has to side with Serbia, since Serbia is defending international law in KiM.
also a fact that you are just ignoring...

maybe you want to correct me a little more? better not, it´s a waste of time.

Insisting on historical rights is not enough. Not to mention the fact that a full return of Kosovo to Serbian control would mean human, economic and political disaster for Serbia.
Sometimes its better NOT to get what you whish for...

My bet is still on a division. And let's move forward after that. Show the Albanians that maybe in the long run independence wasn't such a good idea after all...
(Corrector, 18 February 2007, 16:19)

Lets' turn it the other way, the Albanian Kosovo leadership has been running Kosovo with UNMIK since 1999. They had a chance to create a climate and allow the Kosovo Serbians to return . UNMIK and the Kosovo leadership have not succeeded, in fact, they allowed another ethnic cleansing fiasco in March-2004.

An imposed solution is not going to move anything forward until both Belgrade and Pristina agree on terms.

No guarantee of minority rights, no independance, simple as that. Those actions have to be proven on the ground and not with words which will take time.

NICK...that was funny and true...it's the reason why Serbs OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Slobo in 89 ..etcetc..and now Seslje's party..ahahahahah!! Too bad they don't have many Pesic's to show the rest of Serbia how to effectively win your pluralistic/diverse society over to your views on society and govt..and how it should run smoothly to everyone's equal benefit.

Jovan, like I said: It's your kind of attitude that brought Serbia ab-so-lu-tel-ly nothing.

As a Serb I wish nothing but a prosperous and peaceful future for my family and my country.
Great to have historical rights, great to be 'legally' entitled to a peace of land. But we've all seen what the last 20 years of moral righteousness brought us.
Therefore I 'correct' you. Not all Serbs think the same. Not all Albanians think the same. Let's find the best solution GIVEN THE CURRENT SITUATION and move on. However painfull that will be.
Divide Kosovo. After that Serbia offers the same minority protection to Albanians in Serbia as Kosovo offers to the remaining Serbs in 'independent' Kosovo. Seems the least unfair deal in an unfair situation.

konstantin gregovic wrote: An imposed solution is not going to move anything forward until both Belgrade and Pristina agree on terms.
No guarantee of minority rights, no independance, simple as that. Those actions have to be proven on the ground and not with words which will take time.
==

I totally agree: So far the Albanians have had nothing to do, just sit back and wait for the promised independence.
Like I said above: If the Serbian governements since 2000 had shown some real courage, they would have been able to score very valid and valuable points with the international community. And the current situation would have looked different.
Now it's too late, too little.
Well, we all get the politicians we deserve...

"just another voice in order to keep the albanians KiM calm...
thats all LDP is good for right now. "

Do you think Albanians care about what Pesic says?!

Kosovo will get independence regardless of what Pesic says. However, what she is saying should be taken seriously by Serbs and NOT Albanians. Albanians could care less. It is up to the Serbs to decide their policy and to wake up to the realities.

““I don’t think Ahtisaari has declared Kosovo’s independence, he opened up that possibility with this plan. The fact that Kosovo will have the right to apply for membership in international organizations does not automatically mean it will be granted that”, Pešić concluded.”

Let’s take a look at one of Ahtisaari’s recent comments.

“But the envoy said he was not surprised at Serbia's fierce opposition to his plan.

“I don't think anybody expected the Serbian parliament to say, 'We welcome the independence of Kosovo,'” he said.”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=15&nav_category=90&nav_id=39625

Ahtisaari has basically openly admitted that his plan is in fact for Independence, Serbia must be strong on that point. Personally I feel its better to be open and honest about that and vote on that. That’s a far safer and more constructive approach to the situation. Any sort of delay, or blockage of Kosovo joining the UN like China has consistently done to Taiwan would most likely led to violence and social instability. Ahtisaari’s proposal has too much potential to go astray and unravel into violence if a lasting solution is not found in a reasonable amount of time.

I would go so far as to suggest that the Kosovars be allowed to present a plan for true Independence as an alternative to Ahtisaari’s proposal. I also suggest that Serbs are also given the right to present an alternative as well.

Clearly, in the UNSC both the Kosovar and Serbian side have “sponsors” that could veto any proposal that is too unfair to the other side, this will ensure that nothing too extreme would pass.

If the UNSC feels there isn’t sufficient support for either the Serbian or Kosovar side, then they can always choose Ahtisaari’s poorly thought out and messy solution and maintain the Status Quo for a little while longer while the international community buries their head in the sand and denies responsibility for any possible violence or ethnic tensions that are a result of this stupidity.

While Victor’s argument may in fact have some moral weight to it, coming from someone who supported the ethnic cleansing during Operation Storm against the Serbian people, I think this disqualifies him from making such statements and I personally find it slightly offensive to say the least. After the suffering and intense genocide suffered by the Serbian people under the Ustashe, clearly if the Kosovars have the right to Self Determination based on oppression, most certainly that right also belongs to the Serbian people there. Anyone who supports one while denying the other is a hypocrite of the highest order. While these crimes are separated by a few decades, they both still happened within living memory and strongly affect the feelings and desires of both current populations.

To ensure a lasting peace, the issue must be approached objectively taking into account the suffering of the people on both sides.

Once again I suggest a Partition/Land Swap idea as the best possible solution for the future stability of the region.

Areas of Kosovo and Serbia with an Albanian majority should be allowed independence or the right to join with Albania proper. North Kosovo should remain within Serbia (with the foreign owned Trepeca Mines going to the Kosovars). Those Church owned areas that would be getting the broadest autonomy under the SOP and those areas that guarantee freedom of access in Ahtisaari’s proposal should instead be given the same type of status and freedom that the Vatican currently enjoys. Thereby being allowed to “stay” within Kosovo, yet still ensuring its independence and importance to the Serbian people. Vatican style status would certainly show respect for our Church’s importance and our history and I believe that is something the Serbian people could support and even be proud of. This might be the type of lynchpin that actually makes partition a very viable alternative, yet still give MORE Albanians MORE freedom to choose their own destiny and future. To the Kosovars, I implore you to consider the desires and wishes of your brothers in Presevo and to entertain alternative solutions that might bring them the same freedom that you yourselves seek.

Let us use ration and respect in our dealings with one another and come to a solution that is the best for both our people’s.

Pesic said,

“We should work to provide better living conditions for the handful of Serbs that remain in Kosovo, and we should promote reconciliation with the Albanians.”

This coudn't be further from truth. The only way to a lasting peace is to improve the living condition for the remaining Kosmet Serbs and reconciliation would certainly halt animosity on both sides.

that´s one of my favourite gag´s!!!

just topped by "mladic will face western show trial" and of course the longest balkan running gag (18 years):

"croatia will become eu-member"!

always put´s a smile in my face!

I am a Serbian Orthodox and I cry tears of blood at the loss of Kosovo. I am not one of the many so called Serbs, who run around sticking three fingers up in the air every time they want to say something so incredibly stupid that it sounds like a comical farce from the Waffen SS. On the other hand, I am sick and tiered of the over confident rhetoric of the stupid brigade of over zealous supporters of independence for Kosovo. How many of these have actually visited the region, let alone have to live there? Exactly!

The simple fact is that while we were running around (with our three fingers in the air) either openly supporting Milosevic or not openly attacking him, it was the SERBS, us, who screwed up in Kosovo. Whilst I truly believe that we, the Serbs, had legitimate reasons to fight for our rights and for our existence in Kosovo, as did the legitimate Albanian Kosovars, we were led and represented by a wholly nationalistic and unrealistic rhetoric, which brought a bloody and violent solution with it.

Don’t get me wrong! The KLA. Or should I say the Albanian drug mafia, had as much of a role to play in the loss of Serbian Kosovo as we did in our stupid ultra nationalistic war game. Had thinkers rather than killers led us then perhaps we would all have a better future to look forward to.

Where were these Serbian screams against losing Kosovo back in 2000 and 2001 when the new hope of the holy Djindjic Empire took over from the Milosevic camp? Why is it now, ten minutes after midnight that we suddenly feel the right to protest so loudly? I knew this day would come back when Lord Owen was trying to sell us the Canonisation deal in Kosovo. Nobody heard my screams then and most good, three finger saluting, Serbs told me that I was mad – as mad as I was back in 1993 when I said that we will lose Krajina!!!

No, my dear Serbian brothers and sisters, it is not the over zealous jerks in support of an independent Kosovo, who now pick at our carcass, that are to blame. It is you and I and the rest of the shouters who were nowhere to be seen yesterday. So shut the hell up and listen to what people like Pesic have to say, because that is as good as it damn well gets!

David Ivanovic London

to David:

First I thought to read for the first time something logical from a serb, but I am always mistaken, but you are right for once, the three fingers of yours, "did and will put all serbs in one country, Serbia", you asked for it.
The second, even a cat would attack you , if it finds itself in the dangereus situation.
So my dear friend, even if you do not wave you "fameous" three fingers in the air , you look through them, and my advice to you and your fellow citizens is , forget those, it will bring you in middle ages, do not play with the fate of living serbs in Kosova, let them live, they will have much better life where they are , then the serbs in Serbia itself, becoue the time for threat is over and gone forever.

to the self-proclaimed corrector:

you think you have the right to tell others to accept handing over of their own territory to someone else..

I tell you something: NEVER. understand that?
the Albanians can live free and autonomous WITHOUT being independent.
if you don´t get that, you are pretty alone with those lost souls like Mr.Jovanovic and others who would sell their mother for piece of cake...

and putting myself or others who oppose this land-robbery-attempt into one box with Milosevic, lets me think that YOU are the one who needs to be corrected...

it´s good that there are Serbs like you ( if you are one ) in order to show the world that in Serbia, even poeple like you can have their opinion, no matter how flawed it is...

in KiM right now not even this is possible, since every Albanian saying something different than the extremist-mainstream-nonsense is risking his life.

but it´s also good, that you are belonging to a very small minority of Serbs, thanks to god.

TO Moderator

If you call this a free press, then is really a "SERBIAN FREE PRESS" as always, I got offended, by calling KLA ( freedom fighters, who fought the people who tryed to rob their freedom, and did everything unspeakable in Kosova)drug mafia, so if you want to ignore the facts , thats different story, how ever KLA, is not a drug mafia, and yes indeed, read your history, Rusian history , and you will see that your ancestors, came from somewhere to our soil, so you can let those facts being seen in this webpage , or not, however, everyone knows that.

all the best , it should be the time, that we could live in peace as good friends, our goal, is to get in EU, and only with respect of each others freedom of speech we can get there , not with ignoring the facts

to Alban:

hey Alban, no reason to be upset.
I provided the links, you could have checked it for yourself, but, as it seems you didn´t.
I will tell you what was the content.
non-serbian sources, as for instance the german BND stated the k-albanian leadership is bound to the highest level of organised crime, like drug- and human-trafficking.

why are you complaining, it´s not a serbian source saying it. it´s your "friends" the Germans!

and that is very likely the reason why the moderators didn´t delet it, since it is the truth, even if you don´t like to accept it. it is the truth.

if truth is insulting to you, you should look forward to choose real responsible leaders instead of those who only look for more violence and hatred in order to maintain their businesses.

wake up, man.

Her comments are, of course, ridiculous. Ahtisarri gives Kosovo complete and total independence and gives Serbs nothing but hollow promises. She wants to accept something that will lead to thousands and thousands of refugees iside Belgrade and all cities of Serbia outside Kosovo.

To Jovan: With your continuous responses you only show three things:

1. You obviously run around in a very very small circle. Yes, people in Serbia don't go shouting on the streets that they don't care about Kosovo. Why should they?
But a large group really doesn't care THAT much. They care about their own family, their own jobs, food etc.

2. What else do and did you do to improve the situation in Kosovo? Easy to waste your time writing on a website like B92. When did you help Kosovo refugees? When did you go to Kosovo? Where were you in '98 and '99? For which parties did you vote? How much money did you donate?

3. By attacking the messenger (Pesic, or me in this case) who states the obvious, EXISTING situation, you can happily ignore reality.
Historical rights, international laws... don't make me laugh. If those had any value we wouldn't have been bombed in the first place. So I'm not giving land away, Pesic isn't giving it away. Decades of Serbian mismanagement in combination with Albanian obstruction, terrorism and lots of babies did that. Borders have changed forever and will keep changing.

Yes, inside Kosovo are some of our most sacred places. Our ancestors shed blood for it. But that doesn't mean our blood or our children's blood needs to flow for it as well. The British, French etc. all fought for Jerusalem a long time ago. But last time I checked, those crusades were a thing from the past.
Serbs should fight now (they didn't do anything in the last 8 years, so it's very late already) to get the best possible deal. I think that with a partition and a lot of guarantees for minorities in the rest of Kosovo, we get most possible.
I doubt Serbia will get anything at all.

Which I blame our politicians and people like you for.
But of course you will be able to look proudly in the mirror and say you did all you could... on a webforum.

I would like to clarify that the comments above posted under the name "Nick" was not me.

The fact that people are trying to give my posts a religious conotation is pathetic.

Rade Tarot, what will happen to Kosovo and Serbia?

Serbia, with the help of Russia and China will continue to stall the Kosovo process until the local Albanian population of kosovo resorts to violence. Serbia DOES NOT RETALIATE. Albanians resort to even more extreme measures. Situation escalates. Serbia maintains moral high ground on this issue. Serbia's enemy's hang themselves when the international community accepts Serbia's right to defend itself, and the Serbian tiger (still is..not for long though) is unleashed. If Albanians were really smart, they'd wait things out till they outpopulated Serbia, and democratically took power from Serbs. NO such luck though.

If the Serbian governements since 2000 had shown some real courage, (Corrector, 18 February 2007, 19:05)

Not sure if I am in total agreement with you. When Zoran Djinjic was PM of Serbia, he tried many times to set up meetings with the Kosovo Albanian leadership with no success. Even under Covic who wet up a Kosovo Committee, he could only mediate with UNMIK officials. Through Peterson, Rucker, et al, absolutely no progress was made. The Kosovo Albanian leadership has never shown a willingess to meet with the democratic leaders of Serbia.

The primary reason for this is that the remnants of the KLA still run the Kosovo protectorate and the moderate Kosovo Albanians do not dare to oppose them.

Javan wrote to the Corrector, “it is so cheap, and though most of you are believing that this naive kind of propaganda works, you are not realizing that nobody shares your flawed view.” Corrector, Most people heir do agree with your comments or should at lest respect them. I think that Nationalist like Jovan, Blag, Konstatin and Princip, and also the want to be’s like Lowe, Kate, Ham, Anthony and Mike are the reason why Serbia lost Kosova (Kosovo for the nationalist). The facts that the Albanians where oppressed from 1912 thru 1998 and the Kosova Serbs where also oppressed in 1942-3, and from 1999 thru present. Does not mean a much, what means much is what Serbia did since 1999 to hold on to Kosova. It adopted a Constitution that would gave the Albanian less they had before Milosevic, did not allow Serbian Albanians to participate in the Serbian Elections, Made the Serbian league the only official league. Over 60% of the Serbian people voting for nationalist parties (Radical Party, Socialist Party, and DSS). I like Princip dream of a Win Win case, the Facts are that it is a Loss Loss case, If Serbia keeps Kosova the Albanians Loss big time and If Kosova gets Independents the Serbs loss big time. With that said, there no choice but to gave Independents to Kosova, since Serbia doe not wants the Albanians. And to Matthew plane of Partition that’s a great plan and it would work great, but Serbia would never gave up Presevo Valley and the only reason that they are fighting so hard to keep Kosova is the Trepeca Mines. The Serbian Government doe not care about the Kosova Serbs nor the Kosova Albanians.

Thanks again for you posting Corrector and don’t let them Nationalist stop you from commenting,

It is understandable that Serbia lost its control and the right to rule with Kosova.and I would say that ended with the KUMANOVA MILITARY TECHNICAL AGREEMENT,so now the serbian authorities knowing this fact they try to gain as much territory or even seperate some parts of Kossova but even that I think it will not be the best solution,with that i think Presheva Valley automaticly will have a chance to join Kosova and more other territories will see that as good chance to do the same thing,with all this happening international community especially Europe is not ready to deal with,so at the end they wanna make sure that Kosova will move on its way without saying that Kosova will be independent wich is the final destination of this enire process.So serbians just be ready for another albanian state,it is something that England and USA have decided and with this they wanna fix mistakes that they made in early 1878 in BERLIN

To Jovan:
As an Albanian to interfere it may seem not appropriate but is not with bad intention.
I completely share the view with the Corrector guy here.
I want to add up that have we had a majority of Politician in our both sides: Serbia and Kosova such as Jovanovic believe me we the Balkans would be better off today. It would not have come to a war at all.
To be honest with you he and his supports are the brave ones of the Balkans today.
I personally due to writings of Mathew, Boris, Mike, Corrector and few others guys am thinking differently about Serbs in Kosova, their needs.
It is these guys that made me to appreciate the importance that religion is to the Serbs.
What I mean is that these sort of approach wins the hearts and minds of the other sides not yours Jovan.

femi,

you are welcome to interfere, since this is a serbian forum and at least here you have the possibility to say something, since in the southern part of Serbia, where the KLA-bosses are endangering the improvement of living conditions of ALL poeple living there you cannot speak freely...
here you can speak or interefere freely, so don´t keep it back.

I want to tell you all just a single thing:

whoever calls me a nationalist, simply doesn´t know what that word really means, so "George" repeating this cheap nonsense about the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple", doesn´t help the matter at all.

guys like the one who calls himself the corrector are willing to give in to terror and mafia-structures, thinking they do something for the multicultural co-extistence and talking about "real situations", not knowing that everything changes, the only thing that has to be made clear is: no change of borders.
every other question will be solved as time goes on.

so before you call him a brave guy, just think it over, use your brains.

Jovan

That is a cheap shot mate, this is not Serbian site only. Your views can easily lead to stereotyping and be prejudicial. You should be proud that many people take part on the debates like this. Do not personalise comments which state facts. OPEN YOUR HORIZON....

Jovan, get off your high horse: a recognition of 2 million 'not-very-Serbia-positive'-Albanians in Kosovo is not the same as 'giving in to terrorism'.
But you're right, there's nothing brave about that: it's the reality. And really, what do you think will happen when 2, then 5, then 20 countries recognise Kosovo after Russia uses its veto? The same scenario as when Croatia declared independance...??
Serbia should start a war? I don't expect anything like that. Have you been near an army unit recently?
Serbs should unite, be smart, try to get the maximum result now. Meaning a liveble future for Serbs in Kosovo. Meaning protection of our heritage. Meaning a normal relationship with our neighbours.

And yes: it would be about time that Kosovo gets rid of their current 'leaders'. But what are we saying, how many years did it take us to get rid of Milosevic? How many people still think Seselj is the solution to all our problems... It seems that we (Serbs & Albanians) are at least 'similar' in our preference for crappy politicians...

Finally: I am glad to see that some Albanians are actually trying to understand the Serbian side of this all. That is one big step.
It's not about religion, not about language. It is about allowing other people the same right to live a normal life. I don't need to like you, you don't need to like me.
But let's at least start accepting that we're in this mess together.
So how do we get out of this?

corrector, you ask how we get out of this? are you kidding?

broad autonomy. fullstop.

well, let´s see those 20 countries to recognize KiM. by now there isn´t even a consensus within the EU...but maybe you know more than we do...
let´s see what future brings.

but finally you will be asked, "and you have been the one who wanted to give in to those extremists?"

you don´t know what you are talking, dude.
the whole world-order shall be changed because of 1.8 million Albanians?
no, defintely not.

Holy moly, common sense and intellect Batman!!! Corrector, if I knew you, I would shake your hand and buy you a round cold quality beer, followed by some real alcohol! Although I may not agree with all your points, just the fact that you came out and spoke of realist ideas and the current situation on the ground, that alone commands enormous respect.

That said, let me try and add my 2 cents. First, I don't really see partition being feasible for the following reason;

First, what would the legitimate grounds? If only pure self determination principle is used, then what is to stop Sandak and Vojvodina from doing the same? How about Republika Srpska? I’d like to hear your opinion on this.

Best,
-Jeton

“First, what would the legitimate grounds? If only pure self determination principle is used, then what is to stop Sandak and Vojvodina from doing the same? How about Republika Srpska? I’d like to hear your opinion on this.
(Jeton, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 06:31)”

The Balkans clearly show the dangers and inherent flaws with the Self Determination Principle. Its exactly like a fractal turning in on itself. Where do we stop? Would we go so far as to divide the actual homes of mixed families? When do we stop?

In an ideal world Jeton, if and when we all join the EU, why not do it like how the US handles electoral districts for our Congress. Every 10 years have a census and then use ration and diplomacy to decide the voting districts? We’ll all be in one country, so why not?

To answer your immediate question though, I realize what you propose would open a can of worms, however, I feel it does have validity and all ideas need rational discussions on the merits, good and bad. Why not trade Sandzak for RS? (Although I’m not exactly sure where the Belgrade-Bar railroad goes, but whatever, free trade zone for all involved fixes a lot of problems there). The danger in involving Hungry and Vojvodina is it might pull in Translyvannia, however, putting in the right conditions on joining in such a move might be more balanced.

Jeton, I do realize that supporting partition based merely on Self Determination alone but not supporting making serious concessions and compromise in return would indeed be hypocritical indeed. However, Serbia would surely benefit in the long run from such an even handed and non bias division of land based on Self Determination. Albanians would make huge gains as well. I can not personally fathom why it has not occurred to both our peoples to support one another in such a project. We have the world’s attention, and clearly they are completely stumped as to viable cohesive action. If ever there is a time for a regional solution, now is the time to make it known.

Kosovo solves only one immediate issue for the Albanians. Do not lose sight of the big picture or the needs of others of your people.

just another voice in order to keep the albanians KiM calm...
thats all LDP is good for right now.

it´s better to be honest and tell them the truth instead of decieving them, since they are also serbian citizen and therefore should not be treated as little children.

reconciliation will take place, within serbian borders.

it´s better to realize it sooner than later.

Weak up Serbia!!!
You don’t need to overhear. You just need to wake up and understand that Kosova has been lost for Serbia long time ago.

Jovan

you seem to live dream-world, serbian citizens, we never were and never we'll be, where did that come from now, there is nothing that ties as in any way with serbia, as far as i know the borders that your mup cant even set foot in are there, neither can oyour army, nor anyone who disrespects our sovran country.
i mean honestly one way or another,wheather you like it or not, belgrad has lost the big idea of "greater serbia" for once af for all, and Kosova is just like icing on the cake for all that reagion.
Pesic is only telling the truth that most nationalist serbs are choosing to ignor and only to distebilise that region once again.

If Kosovo had been been of such an importance for the Serbs, the Craddle of their civilization, they say, they should have taken a better care of it and of the Albanian minority as well. What Milosevic has done in 1989 0r 90, when he took away the autonomous status from the Albanian majority, was the nail in the coffin, as we say in French.

How the West must wish Pesic is the prime minister! Unfortunately she is not.

Speaking as an outsider, Serbia did lose physical control over Kosovo in 1999. But legally her sovereignty remains intact as long as 1244 is not repealed or superceded.

In the same analogy, the Syrians lost physical control of their Golan Heights to Israel in 1967 but the UN continues to recognize Syria's sovereignty over the area.

Actually to be more precise, Serbia did not lose physical control over all of Kosovo. The Serbs still hold the northern part, and the Albanians never could control that area since 1999. All the recipe for an eventual de facto partition.

artan:

you make me smile!

who is actually living in a dream-world? can you dig it?

you are still a serbian citizen, since the territory you live on is serbian soil.

the fact that you don´t like the truth doesn´t change a thing!

fortunately there will be more mature Albanians emerging on the political scene, than you are.
it´s only a matter of time.

since I think, judging by your written "behaviour", you are still young and will very likely witness it.

it is not your country, it never was and will never be.
you can rely on that.

Jovan: this is exactly the kind of response that shows why the international community has all reasons NOT to side with Serbia on this subject.
As long as Serbs like yourself keep claiming Serbia (including Kosovo) is 'of the Serbs', instead of saying that it is equally as much the country of Albanians (in Kososo, Presevo Valley or of the Hungarians in Vojvodina for that matter...) THEN there might be a future together.
I think if all Serbian governements since the fall of Milosevic had tried to come with real initiatives to reintegrate Kosovo, the current position of Serbia in the negotiations would have been much, much better.
It's easy to keep saying something is yours, while not doing much constructive at the same time.
Show something positive, you'll get something positive in return. Insisting on historical rights is not enough. Not to mention the fact that a full return of Kosovo to Serbian control would mean human, economic and political disaster for Serbia.
Sometimes its better NOT to get what you whish for...

My bet is still on a division. And let's move forward after that. Show the Albanians that maybe in the long run independence wasn't such a good idea after all...

I thank God/Allah that Serbia doesn't have leaders as smart as Pesic otherwise Kosovo would probably never see its Independece.

to the person calling himself selfrightously "corrector":

the problem is, you are desperately bending the truth only to support your demands, even if every sound person would disagree...
in such case, the person dissagreeing is simply called a Serb ( maybe in additional mentioning of racism, myth-believing, Milosevic et cetera )

it is so cheap, and though most of you are believing that this naive kind of propaganda works, you are not realizing that nobody shares your flawed view.

don´t you have better arguments? or, ..arguments at all?

I don´t wanna act arrogant, but, dude, you don´t seem to be in the position to correct anyone here.

I´ll repeat it once more that even you can dig it:
all poeple who live there have a right to live there, since they are serbian citizens.
but those serbian citizens of albanian ethnicity simply do not have the right to take away the territory from the majority of serbian citizens. it´s that simple.
you only refuse to see it.
but in the end, that´s only your own problem, since interantional sympathies are fading...

and as a last point:
nobody has to side with Serbia, since Serbia is defending international law in KiM.
also a fact that you are just ignoring...

maybe you want to correct me a little more? better not, it´s a waste of time.

Insisting on historical rights is not enough. Not to mention the fact that a full return of Kosovo to Serbian control would mean human, economic and political disaster for Serbia.
Sometimes its better NOT to get what you whish for...

My bet is still on a division. And let's move forward after that. Show the Albanians that maybe in the long run independence wasn't such a good idea after all...
(Corrector, 18 February 2007, 16:19)

Lets' turn it the other way, the Albanian Kosovo leadership has been running Kosovo with UNMIK since 1999. They had a chance to create a climate and allow the Kosovo Serbians to return . UNMIK and the Kosovo leadership have not succeeded, in fact, they allowed another ethnic cleansing fiasco in March-2004.

An imposed solution is not going to move anything forward until both Belgrade and Pristina agree on terms.

No guarantee of minority rights, no independance, simple as that. Those actions have to be proven on the ground and not with words which will take time.

NICK...that was funny and true...it's the reason why Serbs OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Slobo in 89 ..etcetc..and now Seslje's party..ahahahahah!! Too bad they don't have many Pesic's to show the rest of Serbia how to effectively win your pluralistic/diverse society over to your views on society and govt..and how it should run smoothly to everyone's equal benefit.

Jovan, like I said: It's your kind of attitude that brought Serbia ab-so-lu-tel-ly nothing.

As a Serb I wish nothing but a prosperous and peaceful future for my family and my country.
Great to have historical rights, great to be 'legally' entitled to a peace of land. But we've all seen what the last 20 years of moral righteousness brought us.
Therefore I 'correct' you. Not all Serbs think the same. Not all Albanians think the same. Let's find the best solution GIVEN THE CURRENT SITUATION and move on. However painfull that will be.
Divide Kosovo. After that Serbia offers the same minority protection to Albanians in Serbia as Kosovo offers to the remaining Serbs in 'independent' Kosovo. Seems the least unfair deal in an unfair situation.

konstantin gregovic wrote: An imposed solution is not going to move anything forward until both Belgrade and Pristina agree on terms.
No guarantee of minority rights, no independance, simple as that. Those actions have to be proven on the ground and not with words which will take time.
==

I totally agree: So far the Albanians have had nothing to do, just sit back and wait for the promised independence.
Like I said above: If the Serbian governements since 2000 had shown some real courage, they would have been able to score very valid and valuable points with the international community. And the current situation would have looked different.
Now it's too late, too little.
Well, we all get the politicians we deserve...

"just another voice in order to keep the albanians KiM calm...
thats all LDP is good for right now. "

Do you think Albanians care about what Pesic says?!

Kosovo will get independence regardless of what Pesic says. However, what she is saying should be taken seriously by Serbs and NOT Albanians. Albanians could care less. It is up to the Serbs to decide their policy and to wake up to the realities.

““I don’t think Ahtisaari has declared Kosovo’s independence, he opened up that possibility with this plan. The fact that Kosovo will have the right to apply for membership in international organizations does not automatically mean it will be granted that”, Pešić concluded.”

Let’s take a look at one of Ahtisaari’s recent comments.

“But the envoy said he was not surprised at Serbia's fierce opposition to his plan.

“I don't think anybody expected the Serbian parliament to say, 'We welcome the independence of Kosovo,'” he said.”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=15&nav_category=90&nav_id=39625

Ahtisaari has basically openly admitted that his plan is in fact for Independence, Serbia must be strong on that point. Personally I feel its better to be open and honest about that and vote on that. That’s a far safer and more constructive approach to the situation. Any sort of delay, or blockage of Kosovo joining the UN like China has consistently done to Taiwan would most likely led to violence and social instability. Ahtisaari’s proposal has too much potential to go astray and unravel into violence if a lasting solution is not found in a reasonable amount of time.

I would go so far as to suggest that the Kosovars be allowed to present a plan for true Independence as an alternative to Ahtisaari’s proposal. I also suggest that Serbs are also given the right to present an alternative as well.

Clearly, in the UNSC both the Kosovar and Serbian side have “sponsors” that could veto any proposal that is too unfair to the other side, this will ensure that nothing too extreme would pass.

If the UNSC feels there isn’t sufficient support for either the Serbian or Kosovar side, then they can always choose Ahtisaari’s poorly thought out and messy solution and maintain the Status Quo for a little while longer while the international community buries their head in the sand and denies responsibility for any possible violence or ethnic tensions that are a result of this stupidity.

While Victor’s argument may in fact have some moral weight to it, coming from someone who supported the ethnic cleansing during Operation Storm against the Serbian people, I think this disqualifies him from making such statements and I personally find it slightly offensive to say the least. After the suffering and intense genocide suffered by the Serbian people under the Ustashe, clearly if the Kosovars have the right to Self Determination based on oppression, most certainly that right also belongs to the Serbian people there. Anyone who supports one while denying the other is a hypocrite of the highest order. While these crimes are separated by a few decades, they both still happened within living memory and strongly affect the feelings and desires of both current populations.

To ensure a lasting peace, the issue must be approached objectively taking into account the suffering of the people on both sides.

Once again I suggest a Partition/Land Swap idea as the best possible solution for the future stability of the region.

Areas of Kosovo and Serbia with an Albanian majority should be allowed independence or the right to join with Albania proper. North Kosovo should remain within Serbia (with the foreign owned Trepeca Mines going to the Kosovars). Those Church owned areas that would be getting the broadest autonomy under the SOP and those areas that guarantee freedom of access in Ahtisaari’s proposal should instead be given the same type of status and freedom that the Vatican currently enjoys. Thereby being allowed to “stay” within Kosovo, yet still ensuring its independence and importance to the Serbian people. Vatican style status would certainly show respect for our Church’s importance and our history and I believe that is something the Serbian people could support and even be proud of. This might be the type of lynchpin that actually makes partition a very viable alternative, yet still give MORE Albanians MORE freedom to choose their own destiny and future. To the Kosovars, I implore you to consider the desires and wishes of your brothers in Presevo and to entertain alternative solutions that might bring them the same freedom that you yourselves seek.

Let us use ration and respect in our dealings with one another and come to a solution that is the best for both our people’s.

Pesic said,

“We should work to provide better living conditions for the handful of Serbs that remain in Kosovo, and we should promote reconciliation with the Albanians.”

This coudn't be further from truth. The only way to a lasting peace is to improve the living condition for the remaining Kosmet Serbs and reconciliation would certainly halt animosity on both sides.

that´s one of my favourite gag´s!!!

just topped by "mladic will face western show trial" and of course the longest balkan running gag (18 years):

"croatia will become eu-member"!

always put´s a smile in my face!

I am a Serbian Orthodox and I cry tears of blood at the loss of Kosovo. I am not one of the many so called Serbs, who run around sticking three fingers up in the air every time they want to say something so incredibly stupid that it sounds like a comical farce from the Waffen SS. On the other hand, I am sick and tiered of the over confident rhetoric of the stupid brigade of over zealous supporters of independence for Kosovo. How many of these have actually visited the region, let alone have to live there? Exactly!

The simple fact is that while we were running around (with our three fingers in the air) either openly supporting Milosevic or not openly attacking him, it was the SERBS, us, who screwed up in Kosovo. Whilst I truly believe that we, the Serbs, had legitimate reasons to fight for our rights and for our existence in Kosovo, as did the legitimate Albanian Kosovars, we were led and represented by a wholly nationalistic and unrealistic rhetoric, which brought a bloody and violent solution with it.

Don’t get me wrong! The KLA. Or should I say the Albanian drug mafia, had as much of a role to play in the loss of Serbian Kosovo as we did in our stupid ultra nationalistic war game. Had thinkers rather than killers led us then perhaps we would all have a better future to look forward to.

Where were these Serbian screams against losing Kosovo back in 2000 and 2001 when the new hope of the holy Djindjic Empire took over from the Milosevic camp? Why is it now, ten minutes after midnight that we suddenly feel the right to protest so loudly? I knew this day would come back when Lord Owen was trying to sell us the Canonisation deal in Kosovo. Nobody heard my screams then and most good, three finger saluting, Serbs told me that I was mad – as mad as I was back in 1993 when I said that we will lose Krajina!!!

No, my dear Serbian brothers and sisters, it is not the over zealous jerks in support of an independent Kosovo, who now pick at our carcass, that are to blame. It is you and I and the rest of the shouters who were nowhere to be seen yesterday. So shut the hell up and listen to what people like Pesic have to say, because that is as good as it damn well gets!

David Ivanovic London

to David:

First I thought to read for the first time something logical from a serb, but I am always mistaken, but you are right for once, the three fingers of yours, "did and will put all serbs in one country, Serbia", you asked for it.
The second, even a cat would attack you , if it finds itself in the dangereus situation.
So my dear friend, even if you do not wave you "fameous" three fingers in the air , you look through them, and my advice to you and your fellow citizens is , forget those, it will bring you in middle ages, do not play with the fate of living serbs in Kosova, let them live, they will have much better life where they are , then the serbs in Serbia itself, becoue the time for threat is over and gone forever.

to the self-proclaimed corrector:

you think you have the right to tell others to accept handing over of their own territory to someone else..

I tell you something: NEVER. understand that?
the Albanians can live free and autonomous WITHOUT being independent.
if you don´t get that, you are pretty alone with those lost souls like Mr.Jovanovic and others who would sell their mother for piece of cake...

and putting myself or others who oppose this land-robbery-attempt into one box with Milosevic, lets me think that YOU are the one who needs to be corrected...

it´s good that there are Serbs like you ( if you are one ) in order to show the world that in Serbia, even poeple like you can have their opinion, no matter how flawed it is...

in KiM right now not even this is possible, since every Albanian saying something different than the extremist-mainstream-nonsense is risking his life.

but it´s also good, that you are belonging to a very small minority of Serbs, thanks to god.

TO Moderator

If you call this a free press, then is really a "SERBIAN FREE PRESS" as always, I got offended, by calling KLA ( freedom fighters, who fought the people who tryed to rob their freedom, and did everything unspeakable in Kosova)drug mafia, so if you want to ignore the facts , thats different story, how ever KLA, is not a drug mafia, and yes indeed, read your history, Rusian history , and you will see that your ancestors, came from somewhere to our soil, so you can let those facts being seen in this webpage , or not, however, everyone knows that.

all the best , it should be the time, that we could live in peace as good friends, our goal, is to get in EU, and only with respect of each others freedom of speech we can get there , not with ignoring the facts

to Alban:

hey Alban, no reason to be upset.
I provided the links, you could have checked it for yourself, but, as it seems you didn´t.
I will tell you what was the content.
non-serbian sources, as for instance the german BND stated the k-albanian leadership is bound to the highest level of organised crime, like drug- and human-trafficking.

why are you complaining, it´s not a serbian source saying it. it´s your "friends" the Germans!

and that is very likely the reason why the moderators didn´t delet it, since it is the truth, even if you don´t like to accept it. it is the truth.

if truth is insulting to you, you should look forward to choose real responsible leaders instead of those who only look for more violence and hatred in order to maintain their businesses.

wake up, man.

Her comments are, of course, ridiculous. Ahtisarri gives Kosovo complete and total independence and gives Serbs nothing but hollow promises. She wants to accept something that will lead to thousands and thousands of refugees iside Belgrade and all cities of Serbia outside Kosovo.

To Jovan: With your continuous responses you only show three things:

1. You obviously run around in a very very small circle. Yes, people in Serbia don't go shouting on the streets that they don't care about Kosovo. Why should they?
But a large group really doesn't care THAT much. They care about their own family, their own jobs, food etc.

2. What else do and did you do to improve the situation in Kosovo? Easy to waste your time writing on a website like B92. When did you help Kosovo refugees? When did you go to Kosovo? Where were you in '98 and '99? For which parties did you vote? How much money did you donate?

3. By attacking the messenger (Pesic, or me in this case) who states the obvious, EXISTING situation, you can happily ignore reality.
Historical rights, international laws... don't make me laugh. If those had any value we wouldn't have been bombed in the first place. So I'm not giving land away, Pesic isn't giving it away. Decades of Serbian mismanagement in combination with Albanian obstruction, terrorism and lots of babies did that. Borders have changed forever and will keep changing.

Yes, inside Kosovo are some of our most sacred places. Our ancestors shed blood for it. But that doesn't mean our blood or our children's blood needs to flow for it as well. The British, French etc. all fought for Jerusalem a long time ago. But last time I checked, those crusades were a thing from the past.
Serbs should fight now (they didn't do anything in the last 8 years, so it's very late already) to get the best possible deal. I think that with a partition and a lot of guarantees for minorities in the rest of Kosovo, we get most possible.
I doubt Serbia will get anything at all.

Which I blame our politicians and people like you for.
But of course you will be able to look proudly in the mirror and say you did all you could... on a webforum.

I would like to clarify that the comments above posted under the name "Nick" was not me.

The fact that people are trying to give my posts a religious conotation is pathetic.

Rade Tarot, what will happen to Kosovo and Serbia?

Serbia, with the help of Russia and China will continue to stall the Kosovo process until the local Albanian population of kosovo resorts to violence. Serbia DOES NOT RETALIATE. Albanians resort to even more extreme measures. Situation escalates. Serbia maintains moral high ground on this issue. Serbia's enemy's hang themselves when the international community accepts Serbia's right to defend itself, and the Serbian tiger (still is..not for long though) is unleashed. If Albanians were really smart, they'd wait things out till they outpopulated Serbia, and democratically took power from Serbs. NO such luck though.

If the Serbian governements since 2000 had shown some real courage, (Corrector, 18 February 2007, 19:05)

Not sure if I am in total agreement with you. When Zoran Djinjic was PM of Serbia, he tried many times to set up meetings with the Kosovo Albanian leadership with no success. Even under Covic who wet up a Kosovo Committee, he could only mediate with UNMIK officials. Through Peterson, Rucker, et al, absolutely no progress was made. The Kosovo Albanian leadership has never shown a willingess to meet with the democratic leaders of Serbia.

The primary reason for this is that the remnants of the KLA still run the Kosovo protectorate and the moderate Kosovo Albanians do not dare to oppose them.

Javan wrote to the Corrector, “it is so cheap, and though most of you are believing that this naive kind of propaganda works, you are not realizing that nobody shares your flawed view.” Corrector, Most people heir do agree with your comments or should at lest respect them. I think that Nationalist like Jovan, Blag, Konstatin and Princip, and also the want to be’s like Lowe, Kate, Ham, Anthony and Mike are the reason why Serbia lost Kosova (Kosovo for the nationalist). The facts that the Albanians where oppressed from 1912 thru 1998 and the Kosova Serbs where also oppressed in 1942-3, and from 1999 thru present. Does not mean a much, what means much is what Serbia did since 1999 to hold on to Kosova. It adopted a Constitution that would gave the Albanian less they had before Milosevic, did not allow Serbian Albanians to participate in the Serbian Elections, Made the Serbian league the only official league. Over 60% of the Serbian people voting for nationalist parties (Radical Party, Socialist Party, and DSS). I like Princip dream of a Win Win case, the Facts are that it is a Loss Loss case, If Serbia keeps Kosova the Albanians Loss big time and If Kosova gets Independents the Serbs loss big time. With that said, there no choice but to gave Independents to Kosova, since Serbia doe not wants the Albanians. And to Matthew plane of Partition that’s a great plan and it would work great, but Serbia would never gave up Presevo Valley and the only reason that they are fighting so hard to keep Kosova is the Trepeca Mines. The Serbian Government doe not care about the Kosova Serbs nor the Kosova Albanians.

Thanks again for you posting Corrector and don’t let them Nationalist stop you from commenting,

It is understandable that Serbia lost its control and the right to rule with Kosova.and I would say that ended with the KUMANOVA MILITARY TECHNICAL AGREEMENT,so now the serbian authorities knowing this fact they try to gain as much territory or even seperate some parts of Kossova but even that I think it will not be the best solution,with that i think Presheva Valley automaticly will have a chance to join Kosova and more other territories will see that as good chance to do the same thing,with all this happening international community especially Europe is not ready to deal with,so at the end they wanna make sure that Kosova will move on its way without saying that Kosova will be independent wich is the final destination of this enire process.So serbians just be ready for another albanian state,it is something that England and USA have decided and with this they wanna fix mistakes that they made in early 1878 in BERLIN

To Jovan:
As an Albanian to interfere it may seem not appropriate but is not with bad intention.
I completely share the view with the Corrector guy here.
I want to add up that have we had a majority of Politician in our both sides: Serbia and Kosova such as Jovanovic believe me we the Balkans would be better off today. It would not have come to a war at all.
To be honest with you he and his supports are the brave ones of the Balkans today.
I personally due to writings of Mathew, Boris, Mike, Corrector and few others guys am thinking differently about Serbs in Kosova, their needs.
It is these guys that made me to appreciate the importance that religion is to the Serbs.
What I mean is that these sort of approach wins the hearts and minds of the other sides not yours Jovan.

femi,

you are welcome to interfere, since this is a serbian forum and at least here you have the possibility to say something, since in the southern part of Serbia, where the KLA-bosses are endangering the improvement of living conditions of ALL poeple living there you cannot speak freely...
here you can speak or interefere freely, so don´t keep it back.

I want to tell you all just a single thing:

whoever calls me a nationalist, simply doesn´t know what that word really means, so "George" repeating this cheap nonsense about the "Serbs want the land but not the poeple", doesn´t help the matter at all.

guys like the one who calls himself the corrector are willing to give in to terror and mafia-structures, thinking they do something for the multicultural co-extistence and talking about "real situations", not knowing that everything changes, the only thing that has to be made clear is: no change of borders.
every other question will be solved as time goes on.

so before you call him a brave guy, just think it over, use your brains.

Jovan

That is a cheap shot mate, this is not Serbian site only. Your views can easily lead to stereotyping and be prejudicial. You should be proud that many people take part on the debates like this. Do not personalise comments which state facts. OPEN YOUR HORIZON....

Jovan, get off your high horse: a recognition of 2 million 'not-very-Serbia-positive'-Albanians in Kosovo is not the same as 'giving in to terrorism'.
But you're right, there's nothing brave about that: it's the reality. And really, what do you think will happen when 2, then 5, then 20 countries recognise Kosovo after Russia uses its veto? The same scenario as when Croatia declared independance...??
Serbia should start a war? I don't expect anything like that. Have you been near an army unit recently?
Serbs should unite, be smart, try to get the maximum result now. Meaning a liveble future for Serbs in Kosovo. Meaning protection of our heritage. Meaning a normal relationship with our neighbours.

And yes: it would be about time that Kosovo gets rid of their current 'leaders'. But what are we saying, how many years did it take us to get rid of Milosevic? How many people still think Seselj is the solution to all our problems... It seems that we (Serbs & Albanians) are at least 'similar' in our preference for crappy politicians...

Finally: I am glad to see that some Albanians are actually trying to understand the Serbian side of this all. That is one big step.
It's not about religion, not about language. It is about allowing other people the same right to live a normal life. I don't need to like you, you don't need to like me.
But let's at least start accepting that we're in this mess together.
So how do we get out of this?

corrector, you ask how we get out of this? are you kidding?

broad autonomy. fullstop.

well, let´s see those 20 countries to recognize KiM. by now there isn´t even a consensus within the EU...but maybe you know more than we do...
let´s see what future brings.

but finally you will be asked, "and you have been the one who wanted to give in to those extremists?"

you don´t know what you are talking, dude.
the whole world-order shall be changed because of 1.8 million Albanians?
no, defintely not.

Holy moly, common sense and intellect Batman!!! Corrector, if I knew you, I would shake your hand and buy you a round cold quality beer, followed by some real alcohol! Although I may not agree with all your points, just the fact that you came out and spoke of realist ideas and the current situation on the ground, that alone commands enormous respect.

That said, let me try and add my 2 cents. First, I don't really see partition being feasible for the following reason;

First, what would the legitimate grounds? If only pure self determination principle is used, then what is to stop Sandak and Vojvodina from doing the same? How about Republika Srpska? I’d like to hear your opinion on this.

Best,
-Jeton

“First, what would the legitimate grounds? If only pure self determination principle is used, then what is to stop Sandak and Vojvodina from doing the same? How about Republika Srpska? I’d like to hear your opinion on this.
(Jeton, Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, 06:31)”

The Balkans clearly show the dangers and inherent flaws with the Self Determination Principle. Its exactly like a fractal turning in on itself. Where do we stop? Would we go so far as to divide the actual homes of mixed families? When do we stop?

In an ideal world Jeton, if and when we all join the EU, why not do it like how the US handles electoral districts for our Congress. Every 10 years have a census and then use ration and diplomacy to decide the voting districts? We’ll all be in one country, so why not?

To answer your immediate question though, I realize what you propose would open a can of worms, however, I feel it does have validity and all ideas need rational discussions on the merits, good and bad. Why not trade Sandzak for RS? (Although I’m not exactly sure where the Belgrade-Bar railroad goes, but whatever, free trade zone for all involved fixes a lot of problems there). The danger in involving Hungry and Vojvodina is it might pull in Translyvannia, however, putting in the right conditions on joining in such a move might be more balanced.

Jeton, I do realize that supporting partition based merely on Self Determination alone but not supporting making serious concessions and compromise in return would indeed be hypocritical indeed. However, Serbia would surely benefit in the long run from such an even handed and non bias division of land based on Self Determination. Albanians would make huge gains as well. I can not personally fathom why it has not occurred to both our peoples to support one another in such a project. We have the world’s attention, and clearly they are completely stumped as to viable cohesive action. If ever there is a time for a regional solution, now is the time to make it known.

Kosovo solves only one immediate issue for the Albanians. Do not lose sight of the big picture or the needs of others of your people.