UNMIK chief: Russia won’t use veto

So this UN 3rd class little bureaucrat knows better what Russia will do then Russians themselves...pathetic

"Joachim Ruecker said he did not expect Russia to veto a UN Kosovo status resolution ....... The UNMIK chief told the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera Saturday that the solution to Kosovo’s status will not be imposed ......"

Well, technically speaking he is correct. If the status is not imposed on Belgrade, there is no reason for Moscow to veto. So why is he stating the obvious.

If Russia does not impose its veto, it means independence for Kosovo. I honestly think that after what the Serbs did in Kosovo, the Albanians fully desserve independence. This is for them the assurance that no more they will have to fear what the Serbs have done against them between 1990 and 2000.

Alright Victor, so by your analogy, After what Turks did to Serbs, we need some of their territory, bulgars same thing, after what Albanians Nazis did in Kosovo in 1942, we need Albania and Kosovo,

after what Bosnian Nazi muslims did to Serbs in 1943, we need the whole Bosnia now, and the last and not the lest, what the Ustache, Hitler's most loyal exterminators did to Serbs, we need the whole puppet state of Croatia.

So Kosovo still stays with Serbia and like this, evrything is even. You agree? This is your analogy Mr.Victor, do you agree with yourslef at least?

It is porven today that Franjo Tudman was directly linked with Ustache that fled to Germany and the remained Nazis spirit. Everything was planned from Germany, how to destroy Yougoslavia and reward the 1944 puppet state of Croatia.

All proofs here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&q=serbia%2C+avoidable+war&hl=en

So Victor the prophet, what do you say now? Lies? Propaganda? Face the truth, it's all on paper and stop with your anti-serb comments here, you re not welcomed, because you re not objective.

To Victor No.2

When you defend an argument you have to criticize constructively, namely by saying that Victor is anti Serb you came out as an anti Albanian, Croatian & German. In summary your comments had nothing to do with Victors comments. As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)

As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)
(Genc, 18 February 2007, 15:28)

Care to elaborate? I make it a point not to personalize commentors and find most to at least get there viewpoint across.

Victor never backs anything up with facts and his anti-Serb Hysteria is so high he mistakens Albanian commentors who are sarcastic and labels them Serb.

When you defend an argument you have to criticize constructively, namely by saying that Victor is anti Serb you came out as an anti Albanian, Croatian & German. In summary your comments had nothing to do with Victors comments. As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)
(Genc, 18 February 2007, 15:28)

Genc, you re hilarious! Did you even read my post? 1st, I just took Victor's analogy in Kosovo so by saying my commets had nothing to do with his, it's actually giving me right because I was using his analogy.
His analogy was, because Serbs did bad things to Alabanians, they have the right for Independance. I followed that statement with all the agressors that attacked Serbs in History. Do you understand now? By that, Turks didn't leave because they wanted to but they had to leave. But they didn't returned the Serb's territory back. In fact, Serbs were settled first in Albania too, all south territory to Greece was Serb before turks came. There is no majority Serbs in Albania now because the turks settled there, why is 80% of popoulation of Albanians muslims then? When you look at Strengberg, he is Albanian hero, but he was in fact a Serb, burried in a Serb monastry in Kosovo... Why don't we ask for Albania now? Maybe because that happened 500 years ago?
And Serbs didn't declare war to old FRY. If you want a better understanding of Yougoslavia war, this is a Western made documentary without a Serb in it : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&q=serbia%2C+avoidable+war&hl=en

So stop your propaganda please.

konstantin:

there are only a few Albanian commentators here, whose comments are worth to be read...

that´s the reason why I came to the conclusion, we are dealing with a middle-school bunch of teenagers here...

it is so boring to read their threats and accusations or from time to time some morally doubtful whining.

if they only would give some arguments...but no such thing is visible.

Jovan, you re saying that the few comments from Albanians are worth reading but when someone objects to them, they are middle-class teenegers?

From my point of view, the Albanians here and especially Victor (don't know his nationality) , are the ones that accuses only one side without even thinking of the problem. That for me are teenagers reactions. You re contradicting yourself.

Instead of sitting down and talk, the majority of Albanians want non less than Independance like it was their only goal, and now they re closer than ever so why talk? In fact, that quest startet in 1942.

The situation is, Albanians killed lot of Serbs, Serbs killed lot of Albanians, now it's time to sit down and talk because it's the only way to reach a permanent solution, there is no other.

If either side is not satisfied, forget peace.

Hold your horses people. We will have to wait only one month to find out what Russia will do.

Victor No. 2

- excellent documentary. I agree with Jovan & Konstatin & yourself regarding the absolutely poor level of comments by Victor and Genc has foot his credibilty by trying to add in his pennies worth.

Thanks for the link and I look forward to seeing more info.

Regarding Ruecker it is clear that he is either ignorant and is well out of the loop or clearly a total and absolutely pathetic Liar - I posted a few days a link that showed an analysis by the Economist Itelligence Unit (see below) - ususally very accurate and it would seem that these had been circulated within the UN (OHCR & Unicef) and amongst Albanian circles. Ruecker clearly needs to be passed more info if he really believes what he has said.

http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/2006-November/000834.html

Jovan, what is an argument ? Please, give us your definition? According to me, the goal of an argument is to offer good reasons in support of a conclusion, reasons that all parties to your dispute can accept. Now, read me post again. I say that the Albanians from Kosovo desserve to be independent from Serbia for specific reasons: racial purification, ethnic cleansing, genocide.

I understand that according to the Serbs on this forum, a good 'argument' is one that favours the Serbs. This is sometimes possible but not in this case.

Even if Russia vetos a UN resolution, it still doesn't mean that Kosovo will not become independent. Russia is only one country, and Kosovo can survive without Russia recognizing it.

In fact what that might mean is that Kosovo will get independent without all the provisions on minorities in the Ahtisaari package.

Kosovo will become independent anyway, so it is better for Kosovo Serbs to get as much as they can. Belgrade should not play with them.

NOBODY can read the mind of the chessmaster.Only Vladimir Putin knows what Russia will do BUT it is IMPERATIVE for the Serbs to show the world that they are willing to bend in order to find a solution even if they stick to their legal stance.A great negotiator always knows how to put the ball squarely in the other person's court without breaking a sweat.

Kosova will become independent for the only reason that Serbia is unable to manage and integrate it to the rest of the country.
The internationals can't stay here and ward it in eternity.

When has Russia ever used the veto in favor of Serbia? The UNSC veto is a very powerful tool and I am sure Russia uses it sparingly. Serbia is not really high in its list of priorities

To all you who want some arguments:
Serbia since its creation has only caused wars. I do not need to remind you of your own history. Kosovo is a territory it has conquered from another country in 1912, but it has never properly included it as an integrative part as by the international law (for a timeline of acts and agreements on the issue, look at Noel Malcolm's Short History of Kosovo... Of course, some of you hate this book, but it is the only one that seems impartial to me) Furthermore, Kosovo was acknowledged the right to decide its fate in the conference of Prizren of the Kosovo Committee of the War for National Liberation. Although this was not done directly, it was this conference that canceled the decision of the Bunjajt conference decision to joining with Albania. And it was needed by the new Yugoslav State, and they called to it many times.

On the other hand, the Albanians have never recognized Serbia as their country, but have continuously fought against it. Kosovo has created its own identity over the years, even though as part of Serbia too, it had the de facto power of a State within SRY. Its autonomy being taken in a non-legal way and its people having suffered genocide under this country, gives them more than the right to asking for independence. If you call so much on the legal arguments, tell me one law Serbia has not violated when it comes to Kosovo and its people. Even given all these arguments, the people of Kosovo have made their will known peacefully for 10 years, and are still doing it in the most diplomatic way possible. Therefore cut the crap, and acknowledge reality and the real arguments to the issue.

Cheers

Reading all your comments makes me think your all acting like children or just plain one sided, I have worked and know both Kosavairs and Serbs and I like them all and have become very good friends with all of them but truth be known Kosovo is not ready to be independant, independance means just that, total independance and not relying on other countrys to keep sending in money, it is obeying laws, and creating jobs instead of sitting in coffee bars it is not just a new flag and thinking now we are independant we can do what we want, there is alot of teaching still to be done before the Kosovairs can function on their own, they don't want Serbia, they don't want UNMIK, they don't really want the EU, they still don't know what they want and last Sat demostraion is proff that they are still not ready to be "on their own" I hope one day they will grow as a country and independance will come but now is not the right time.

Jovan, those teenagers realized the most difficult thing they bring international community in Kosova (NATO), and they are going now to build their state. You can call them whatever you want, but this is reality.

Even an animal if you hurt, it will turn against you. What serbs expected in Kosovo, Albanians to send them flowers??!!! It is normal that they can not accept the sovereignity of Serbia. A lot of things happened. And, even that they are not ready for independent state, they are ready to separtate from Serbia. And, this process is just normal thing. Kosovo was never Serbia. You people believe in myths. Serbs fought only once against Otoman Imperatory, while Albanians fought with years. And, what's mor important, every one know's that Scanderbeg is Albanian. He once even fought serbian army (ally of Otoman Imperatory), while he was going to Hungary, to help king Huniady against turks. You may not accept this, but this is true. You have a lot of data, in history books, that prove this thing. And also, gues what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....

shukri, ardi:

you should read some books, especiall non-albanian sources. you would understand much more than.

sue: it´s rather arrogant to say that all Serbs and Albanians are acting like children.
maybe you think we ( both Serbs and Albanians ) need civilized Americans to show us how the world works,right?

since China and Russia are gaining ground in world-affairs, getting their oil on a rather peaceful way..like China in the african continent..
I think it is someone else, who should tink over his approach.

I said, some of the albanian posters here, who are boasting with treats, bringing up only weak allegations and flawed history-knowledge, are acting childish as some teens. not all Albanians.

there is quite a difference I guess.

and to the one, who wrote that that the internationals won´t stay for eternal times, yes , you´re right, they will stay only as long as needed and in their interest.

Camp Bondsteel for instance is leased for 99 years, as far as I know.
can you dig it?

you still don´t seem to see the larger picture...

On the other hand, the Albanians have never recognized Serbia as their country...... Kosovo has created its own identity over the years, even though as part of Serbia too, it had the de facto power of a State within SRY. ......people having suffered genocide under this country, gives them more than the right to asking for independence. If you call so much on the legal arguments, tell me one law Serbia has not violated when it comes to Kosovo and its people. Even given all these arguments, the people of Kosovo have made their will known peacefully for 10 years, and are still doing it in the most diplomatic way possible. Therefore cut the crap, and acknowledge reality and the real arguments to the issue.

Cheers
(Honoris, 18 February 2007, 23:25)

Relying on one pro-Albanian book thus does not make history. The Kosovo Albanians and Serbs never had a problem living together between the years' of 1912-1941. The provocations came from Albanian proper and some border skirmishes occured during that period. Again, the Kosovo-Albanians were respected and the gatekeepers of the Serbian Orthodox Church and Monasteries in Kosovo and that included the period under the Ottoman empire.

The so called Prizren accords were not broken up by the Serbs , but by the Ottoman Turks.

The period between 1946-1999 was when Kosovo gained substantial autonomy under Marshal Tito. This period also marked a sharp decrease in the Serbian population in Kosovo -you only need to look at the Yugoslav census to verify that fact.

His goal was to expand Yugoslavia to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Albania and Macedonia, Greece. Marshal Tito created the republic of Macedonia in order to eventually gain access to Salonika and eventually Macedonia, Greece as well as part of Bulgaria declared Macedonia under the IMRO Bulgarian organization.

THe Soviet Union intervened in the case of Bulgaria and poisoned the leader Demitrov. Enver Hoxha insituted tight Marxist Leninist controls in Albania where even Tito's Communism could not relate to.


To clear the record, 10,000 people died in Kosovo during the war and that included both Serbians and Kosovo Albanians.

If you need a definition of Genocide, read another book other than Noel Malcolm.

To make it crystal clear,

Over 6 Million jews were systematically killed during the Nazi Regime, that is Genocide.

Between 1mil-3mil Armenians and Greeks were exterminated in Turkey. Turkey along with their American proxies continue to deny that it happened even though the Turkish government at the time even prosected the Young Turk Organization and Military.

Over 750,000 Serbs, Croats, Roma's, Gypsies and Jews were systematically killed by the Ante Pavelic Ustasha government between the period of 1941-1945. The Vad Yashem Holacaust museum contains all the facts if you are so inclined to verify.

Other genocides have occured in Cambodia in southeast Asia under the Pol Pot regime as well as recently in Rwanda.

And also, guess what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....
(Ardi, 19 February 2007, 10:11)

What are you trying to prove with that statement!!

Constantinople was the centre of the Holy Roman empire and capital. The Holy Roman Emperor Constantine and Helena were the first Roman Kings to adopt Christianity into the Roman empire the Constantinople was declared the capital.

In the Great Schism, (12th century) the Holy Roman Empire was split between East(Byzantine Empire) and West (Rome)

In the 14th century, the Ottoman Turks invaded and took Constantinople and the Great Orthodox Church Hagia Sofia was converted to a Mosque. However, the Turks respected history and kept all the Orthodox relics and icons and now the church is a musuem in present day Istanbul.

Today, Constantinople is the Centre of the Orthdox Church which is primarily supported bythe Serbian, Greek, Albanian, Bulgaria, Romanian, Russian, Ukranian Orthodox Churches. The so called Macedonian Orthodox Church in FYROM is Autocephelus meaning indpendant from Constantinople.

konstantin:

there are only a few Albanian commentators here, whose comments are worth to be read...
(jovan, 18 February 2007, 16:57)

Jovan,

You can't really blame them because they came from a generation under Tito's regime who completely erased Serbia's complete true history.

The Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia & Kosovo Albanian Communist leadership contributed to the decay of Kosovo and the exodus of many Serbs from the Kosovo region between 1946-1999. Milosevic used this to his advantage in order to gain political power in 1999.

“And also, guess what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....
(Ardi, 19 February 2007, 10:11)”

I would like to point out that many people the world over still refer to it as Constantinople and not Istanbul.

I would also like to point out there is a big difference between the two. Constantinople is the Ottoman Capital and its greatest Orthodox Churches now as Mosques, are highly revered. In a way, the Ottomans showed great respect for the value of Byzantine culture. It seems to me that some elements of Kosovar society would be happy to be rid of the Serbian Churches. While I am fairly sure this is not the majority position of the Kosovar population, it only takes one person to destroy a Church.

Kosovo, while sacred to the Serbs and containing many of our important cultural sites, it does not contain anything that could be referred to as the cradle of Albanian civilization. While I acknowledge a long time Albanian presence in the region, it simply does not have the same importance historically to the Albanians as it does to the Serbs. We really don’t have the same sort of major conflict of interest about the holy sites that Jerusalem has. In reality it should be easier to find a solution to our Holy sites.

Jovan, it seems you like to spout off but do not read what others write, how dare you say I am arrogant or that I made a arrogant remark about all Albanian's and Serbs being children, what I said was you and and a few others seem to act like children on this forum because you only look at things one sided, I am friends with Both sides and have worked with both sides, and I am not American, I care very deeply about what will happen to Kosovo and to its people, I would like to see one day independance but what I said was that from being there 6 years as a volunteer (I may stress), Kosovo needs more nurturing before they will be ready for independance, and I wirry about the Serbs that will be left to live there, it is time to try and forget the past and move on nohting can be solved by hatered and living in the past.

So this UN 3rd class little bureaucrat knows better what Russia will do then Russians themselves...pathetic

"Joachim Ruecker said he did not expect Russia to veto a UN Kosovo status resolution ....... The UNMIK chief told the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera Saturday that the solution to Kosovo’s status will not be imposed ......"

Well, technically speaking he is correct. If the status is not imposed on Belgrade, there is no reason for Moscow to veto. So why is he stating the obvious.

If Russia does not impose its veto, it means independence for Kosovo. I honestly think that after what the Serbs did in Kosovo, the Albanians fully desserve independence. This is for them the assurance that no more they will have to fear what the Serbs have done against them between 1990 and 2000.

Alright Victor, so by your analogy, After what Turks did to Serbs, we need some of their territory, bulgars same thing, after what Albanians Nazis did in Kosovo in 1942, we need Albania and Kosovo,

after what Bosnian Nazi muslims did to Serbs in 1943, we need the whole Bosnia now, and the last and not the lest, what the Ustache, Hitler's most loyal exterminators did to Serbs, we need the whole puppet state of Croatia.

So Kosovo still stays with Serbia and like this, evrything is even. You agree? This is your analogy Mr.Victor, do you agree with yourslef at least?

It is porven today that Franjo Tudman was directly linked with Ustache that fled to Germany and the remained Nazis spirit. Everything was planned from Germany, how to destroy Yougoslavia and reward the 1944 puppet state of Croatia.

All proofs here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&q=serbia%2C+avoidable+war&hl=en

So Victor the prophet, what do you say now? Lies? Propaganda? Face the truth, it's all on paper and stop with your anti-serb comments here, you re not welcomed, because you re not objective.

To Victor No.2

When you defend an argument you have to criticize constructively, namely by saying that Victor is anti Serb you came out as an anti Albanian, Croatian & German. In summary your comments had nothing to do with Victors comments. As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)

As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)
(Genc, 18 February 2007, 15:28)

Care to elaborate? I make it a point not to personalize commentors and find most to at least get there viewpoint across.

Victor never backs anything up with facts and his anti-Serb Hysteria is so high he mistakens Albanian commentors who are sarcastic and labels them Serb.

When you defend an argument you have to criticize constructively, namely by saying that Victor is anti Serb you came out as an anti Albanian, Croatian & German. In summary your comments had nothing to do with Victors comments. As far as taking Turkish territory :) thats even more hilarious because Turks concurred the Balkans and they left, Serbs declared ward to almost all provinces/republics of FRY and its their tie to leave. Do the math :)
(Genc, 18 February 2007, 15:28)

Genc, you re hilarious! Did you even read my post? 1st, I just took Victor's analogy in Kosovo so by saying my commets had nothing to do with his, it's actually giving me right because I was using his analogy.
His analogy was, because Serbs did bad things to Alabanians, they have the right for Independance. I followed that statement with all the agressors that attacked Serbs in History. Do you understand now? By that, Turks didn't leave because they wanted to but they had to leave. But they didn't returned the Serb's territory back. In fact, Serbs were settled first in Albania too, all south territory to Greece was Serb before turks came. There is no majority Serbs in Albania now because the turks settled there, why is 80% of popoulation of Albanians muslims then? When you look at Strengberg, he is Albanian hero, but he was in fact a Serb, burried in a Serb monastry in Kosovo... Why don't we ask for Albania now? Maybe because that happened 500 years ago?
And Serbs didn't declare war to old FRY. If you want a better understanding of Yougoslavia war, this is a Western made documentary without a Serb in it : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&q=serbia%2C+avoidable+war&hl=en

So stop your propaganda please.

konstantin:

there are only a few Albanian commentators here, whose comments are worth to be read...

that´s the reason why I came to the conclusion, we are dealing with a middle-school bunch of teenagers here...

it is so boring to read their threats and accusations or from time to time some morally doubtful whining.

if they only would give some arguments...but no such thing is visible.

Jovan, you re saying that the few comments from Albanians are worth reading but when someone objects to them, they are middle-class teenegers?

From my point of view, the Albanians here and especially Victor (don't know his nationality) , are the ones that accuses only one side without even thinking of the problem. That for me are teenagers reactions. You re contradicting yourself.

Instead of sitting down and talk, the majority of Albanians want non less than Independance like it was their only goal, and now they re closer than ever so why talk? In fact, that quest startet in 1942.

The situation is, Albanians killed lot of Serbs, Serbs killed lot of Albanians, now it's time to sit down and talk because it's the only way to reach a permanent solution, there is no other.

If either side is not satisfied, forget peace.

Hold your horses people. We will have to wait only one month to find out what Russia will do.

Victor No. 2

- excellent documentary. I agree with Jovan & Konstatin & yourself regarding the absolutely poor level of comments by Victor and Genc has foot his credibilty by trying to add in his pennies worth.

Thanks for the link and I look forward to seeing more info.

Regarding Ruecker it is clear that he is either ignorant and is well out of the loop or clearly a total and absolutely pathetic Liar - I posted a few days a link that showed an analysis by the Economist Itelligence Unit (see below) - ususally very accurate and it would seem that these had been circulated within the UN (OHCR & Unicef) and amongst Albanian circles. Ruecker clearly needs to be passed more info if he really believes what he has said.

http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/2006-November/000834.html

Jovan, what is an argument ? Please, give us your definition? According to me, the goal of an argument is to offer good reasons in support of a conclusion, reasons that all parties to your dispute can accept. Now, read me post again. I say that the Albanians from Kosovo desserve to be independent from Serbia for specific reasons: racial purification, ethnic cleansing, genocide.

I understand that according to the Serbs on this forum, a good 'argument' is one that favours the Serbs. This is sometimes possible but not in this case.

Even if Russia vetos a UN resolution, it still doesn't mean that Kosovo will not become independent. Russia is only one country, and Kosovo can survive without Russia recognizing it.

In fact what that might mean is that Kosovo will get independent without all the provisions on minorities in the Ahtisaari package.

Kosovo will become independent anyway, so it is better for Kosovo Serbs to get as much as they can. Belgrade should not play with them.

NOBODY can read the mind of the chessmaster.Only Vladimir Putin knows what Russia will do BUT it is IMPERATIVE for the Serbs to show the world that they are willing to bend in order to find a solution even if they stick to their legal stance.A great negotiator always knows how to put the ball squarely in the other person's court without breaking a sweat.

Kosova will become independent for the only reason that Serbia is unable to manage and integrate it to the rest of the country.
The internationals can't stay here and ward it in eternity.

When has Russia ever used the veto in favor of Serbia? The UNSC veto is a very powerful tool and I am sure Russia uses it sparingly. Serbia is not really high in its list of priorities

To all you who want some arguments:
Serbia since its creation has only caused wars. I do not need to remind you of your own history. Kosovo is a territory it has conquered from another country in 1912, but it has never properly included it as an integrative part as by the international law (for a timeline of acts and agreements on the issue, look at Noel Malcolm's Short History of Kosovo... Of course, some of you hate this book, but it is the only one that seems impartial to me) Furthermore, Kosovo was acknowledged the right to decide its fate in the conference of Prizren of the Kosovo Committee of the War for National Liberation. Although this was not done directly, it was this conference that canceled the decision of the Bunjajt conference decision to joining with Albania. And it was needed by the new Yugoslav State, and they called to it many times.

On the other hand, the Albanians have never recognized Serbia as their country, but have continuously fought against it. Kosovo has created its own identity over the years, even though as part of Serbia too, it had the de facto power of a State within SRY. Its autonomy being taken in a non-legal way and its people having suffered genocide under this country, gives them more than the right to asking for independence. If you call so much on the legal arguments, tell me one law Serbia has not violated when it comes to Kosovo and its people. Even given all these arguments, the people of Kosovo have made their will known peacefully for 10 years, and are still doing it in the most diplomatic way possible. Therefore cut the crap, and acknowledge reality and the real arguments to the issue.

Cheers

Reading all your comments makes me think your all acting like children or just plain one sided, I have worked and know both Kosavairs and Serbs and I like them all and have become very good friends with all of them but truth be known Kosovo is not ready to be independant, independance means just that, total independance and not relying on other countrys to keep sending in money, it is obeying laws, and creating jobs instead of sitting in coffee bars it is not just a new flag and thinking now we are independant we can do what we want, there is alot of teaching still to be done before the Kosovairs can function on their own, they don't want Serbia, they don't want UNMIK, they don't really want the EU, they still don't know what they want and last Sat demostraion is proff that they are still not ready to be "on their own" I hope one day they will grow as a country and independance will come but now is not the right time.

Jovan, those teenagers realized the most difficult thing they bring international community in Kosova (NATO), and they are going now to build their state. You can call them whatever you want, but this is reality.

Even an animal if you hurt, it will turn against you. What serbs expected in Kosovo, Albanians to send them flowers??!!! It is normal that they can not accept the sovereignity of Serbia. A lot of things happened. And, even that they are not ready for independent state, they are ready to separtate from Serbia. And, this process is just normal thing. Kosovo was never Serbia. You people believe in myths. Serbs fought only once against Otoman Imperatory, while Albanians fought with years. And, what's mor important, every one know's that Scanderbeg is Albanian. He once even fought serbian army (ally of Otoman Imperatory), while he was going to Hungary, to help king Huniady against turks. You may not accept this, but this is true. You have a lot of data, in history books, that prove this thing. And also, gues what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....

shukri, ardi:

you should read some books, especiall non-albanian sources. you would understand much more than.

sue: it´s rather arrogant to say that all Serbs and Albanians are acting like children.
maybe you think we ( both Serbs and Albanians ) need civilized Americans to show us how the world works,right?

since China and Russia are gaining ground in world-affairs, getting their oil on a rather peaceful way..like China in the african continent..
I think it is someone else, who should tink over his approach.

I said, some of the albanian posters here, who are boasting with treats, bringing up only weak allegations and flawed history-knowledge, are acting childish as some teens. not all Albanians.

there is quite a difference I guess.

and to the one, who wrote that that the internationals won´t stay for eternal times, yes , you´re right, they will stay only as long as needed and in their interest.

Camp Bondsteel for instance is leased for 99 years, as far as I know.
can you dig it?

you still don´t seem to see the larger picture...

On the other hand, the Albanians have never recognized Serbia as their country...... Kosovo has created its own identity over the years, even though as part of Serbia too, it had the de facto power of a State within SRY. ......people having suffered genocide under this country, gives them more than the right to asking for independence. If you call so much on the legal arguments, tell me one law Serbia has not violated when it comes to Kosovo and its people. Even given all these arguments, the people of Kosovo have made their will known peacefully for 10 years, and are still doing it in the most diplomatic way possible. Therefore cut the crap, and acknowledge reality and the real arguments to the issue.

Cheers
(Honoris, 18 February 2007, 23:25)

Relying on one pro-Albanian book thus does not make history. The Kosovo Albanians and Serbs never had a problem living together between the years' of 1912-1941. The provocations came from Albanian proper and some border skirmishes occured during that period. Again, the Kosovo-Albanians were respected and the gatekeepers of the Serbian Orthodox Church and Monasteries in Kosovo and that included the period under the Ottoman empire.

The so called Prizren accords were not broken up by the Serbs , but by the Ottoman Turks.

The period between 1946-1999 was when Kosovo gained substantial autonomy under Marshal Tito. This period also marked a sharp decrease in the Serbian population in Kosovo -you only need to look at the Yugoslav census to verify that fact.

His goal was to expand Yugoslavia to eventually integrate Bulgaria and Albania and Macedonia, Greece. Marshal Tito created the republic of Macedonia in order to eventually gain access to Salonika and eventually Macedonia, Greece as well as part of Bulgaria declared Macedonia under the IMRO Bulgarian organization.

THe Soviet Union intervened in the case of Bulgaria and poisoned the leader Demitrov. Enver Hoxha insituted tight Marxist Leninist controls in Albania where even Tito's Communism could not relate to.


To clear the record, 10,000 people died in Kosovo during the war and that included both Serbians and Kosovo Albanians.

If you need a definition of Genocide, read another book other than Noel Malcolm.

To make it crystal clear,

Over 6 Million jews were systematically killed during the Nazi Regime, that is Genocide.

Between 1mil-3mil Armenians and Greeks were exterminated in Turkey. Turkey along with their American proxies continue to deny that it happened even though the Turkish government at the time even prosected the Young Turk Organization and Military.

Over 750,000 Serbs, Croats, Roma's, Gypsies and Jews were systematically killed by the Ante Pavelic Ustasha government between the period of 1941-1945. The Vad Yashem Holacaust museum contains all the facts if you are so inclined to verify.

Other genocides have occured in Cambodia in southeast Asia under the Pol Pot regime as well as recently in Rwanda.

And also, guess what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....
(Ardi, 19 February 2007, 10:11)

What are you trying to prove with that statement!!

Constantinople was the centre of the Holy Roman empire and capital. The Holy Roman Emperor Constantine and Helena were the first Roman Kings to adopt Christianity into the Roman empire the Constantinople was declared the capital.

In the Great Schism, (12th century) the Holy Roman Empire was split between East(Byzantine Empire) and West (Rome)

In the 14th century, the Ottoman Turks invaded and took Constantinople and the Great Orthodox Church Hagia Sofia was converted to a Mosque. However, the Turks respected history and kept all the Orthodox relics and icons and now the church is a musuem in present day Istanbul.

Today, Constantinople is the Centre of the Orthdox Church which is primarily supported bythe Serbian, Greek, Albanian, Bulgaria, Romanian, Russian, Ukranian Orthodox Churches. The so called Macedonian Orthodox Church in FYROM is Autocephelus meaning indpendant from Constantinople.

konstantin:

there are only a few Albanian commentators here, whose comments are worth to be read...
(jovan, 18 February 2007, 16:57)

Jovan,

You can't really blame them because they came from a generation under Tito's regime who completely erased Serbia's complete true history.

The Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia & Kosovo Albanian Communist leadership contributed to the decay of Kosovo and the exodus of many Serbs from the Kosovo region between 1946-1999. Milosevic used this to his advantage in order to gain political power in 1999.

“And also, guess what, the center of Orthodox church is in Istanbul. Who was with turks then....
(Ardi, 19 February 2007, 10:11)”

I would like to point out that many people the world over still refer to it as Constantinople and not Istanbul.

I would also like to point out there is a big difference between the two. Constantinople is the Ottoman Capital and its greatest Orthodox Churches now as Mosques, are highly revered. In a way, the Ottomans showed great respect for the value of Byzantine culture. It seems to me that some elements of Kosovar society would be happy to be rid of the Serbian Churches. While I am fairly sure this is not the majority position of the Kosovar population, it only takes one person to destroy a Church.

Kosovo, while sacred to the Serbs and containing many of our important cultural sites, it does not contain anything that could be referred to as the cradle of Albanian civilization. While I acknowledge a long time Albanian presence in the region, it simply does not have the same importance historically to the Albanians as it does to the Serbs. We really don’t have the same sort of major conflict of interest about the holy sites that Jerusalem has. In reality it should be easier to find a solution to our Holy sites.

Jovan, it seems you like to spout off but do not read what others write, how dare you say I am arrogant or that I made a arrogant remark about all Albanian's and Serbs being children, what I said was you and and a few others seem to act like children on this forum because you only look at things one sided, I am friends with Both sides and have worked with both sides, and I am not American, I care very deeply about what will happen to Kosovo and to its people, I would like to see one day independance but what I said was that from being there 6 years as a volunteer (I may stress), Kosovo needs more nurturing before they will be ready for independance, and I wirry about the Serbs that will be left to live there, it is time to try and forget the past and move on nohting can be solved by hatered and living in the past.