The Times: Kosovo could erupt

100,000 killed? where does this number come from???

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1398143.ece

good question, billy.

seems like that is just another cheap try to "convince" the Serbs to be " wise " and give up their territory in order to give that present to the Albanians, who of course " have strong moral points" on their side...

how laughable is this actually?

I don´t see any morally implied reasons at all that would serve the greater albanian goal. ( didn´t they side with the Nazi´s in WWII ? )
isn´t KiM a epi-center of drug and human-trafficking, even though there are internationals ruling the province?

there were times, the "Times" published better analyses...

I noticed that also. Amazing how these journalists can get away with posting these inaccurate lies, in turn swating public opinion. There should be a law. Just like I read a recent so-called unbiased view about the situation in Kosovo, and the writer referred to the province as Kosova. Too much.

That number probably comes from "reliable sources" or historical facts. hahahaha

If Russia is so against this plan then why are there police officers from Russia working in the (UNMIK)mission? Isnt it a waste of their time based on their countrys opinion of the statehood of Kosovo?

It doesn't come from anywhere Billy, you made it up. The article says 1,000 not 100,000

BOLD is the key word here.Does the EU care enough about the Balkans to think outside the box and present radical benefits to all parties sooner rather than later?MASSIVE financial incentives coupled with IMMEDIATE social and political programs should be offered to all the parties.The 7 CEFTA countries only comprise 30 million people which is not going to have any negative economic effect if they are given immediate membership in an existing market of 490 million making borders irrelevant.To the cynics who keep talking about second or third class status within the EU try to FOCUS on the fact that NOT all existing countries put restrictions on the free movement of people in regards to new members and for the ones that do put restrictions there is only a 7 year period in which they can do so.A common European homeland is more important than any one ethnic group when you look at the big picture.

My mistake. I finally got a hold of the full article. I see where you referenced that number.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the EU is desperately hoping to get a legal decision on Kosovo's independence at the UN level.After George Bush's total disregard for UN authorization for the Iraq invasion many Europeans cited the fact that Bush had no legal authority to do this so now they cannot allow their image to be one of hypocrisy in recognizing Kosovo's independence without UN authorization.The US has gotten itself in a jam by promising Albanians independence in Kosovo.The legalist Europeans have gotten themselves in a jam by calling for the absolute adherence to the UN process and the Russians are sitting and smiling at their good fortunes.The EU needs to think outside the box because this is going to be a lose/lose situation if they cannot get unanimity on this issue.Russia today is a rich country and Serbia today has a relatively democratic regime in Belgrade so present day realities are completely different than 1999.Having said this Prince's song 1999 just came into my mind.

100,000 killed and this is sort of a Pro-Serb article!!!! A prime example of how distortions of the truth have a habit of repeating themselves and sticking in the national conscious. Where’s Victor? He should cite this article for his future distortions of the truth.

In reality, we should probably all write letters to the Times asking them to correct it. It’s a gross exaggeration. I am very sorry for the suffering of the Albanian people, and even one innocent life lost is too much. However, in the interests of future peace, we must establish the truth of what happened. We Serbs should come completely clean with what we know about what happened there. I am sure we did in fact commit crimes, however I am also sure that the reality of our crimes were far less then what is often portrayed in the media. We have nothing to lose by pursuing the truth and we must acknowledge those crimes for which we are responsible.

"200,000 left the province, never to return”
Where does this number come from????? According to the Serbian govt census of 91, in Kosova there were only 190,000 serbs. 120,000 of them still remain in Kosova, a loss of population of only 70,000. Plus or minus a small delta accounting for the demographic change within that group; but is ridiculous to think that serbs grew from 190,000 to 320,000 within 15 years. Unless each serbian woman of fertility age gave birth to 30 children during that period of time.
Try some arithmetics please!

"never to return”
According to - again - Serbian govt that complained to UNMIK deputy chief Steven Schook, when he visited Belgrade on 14 June 2006, I quote: "Belgrade claims that only some 10,000 Serb refugees have returned to their homes over the past seven years". Taking into account the Serbian govt propensity to play with numbers for obvious propaganda reasons, that number is probably higher. But let's take that number; ok, 10,000 out of 70,000, means that one in seven refugees have returned, leaving the number the refugees to 60,000. And that's an ongoing process. But it can hardly paint a picture of a Kosova govt bent on ethnic cleansing, quite to the contrary, if we consider how many of these refugees really want to return.

There are many reasons why some Serbs will never return; some of them have committed crimes and don't want to face justice, some have never had deep roots in Kosova to begin with, being lured in the province by the Serbian govt programme of colonization, such as the law passed in the summer of 1991, that gave Serb and Montenegrins wishing to settle in Kosova, the right to 5 hectares of land, to be supplied free of charge out of municipal land-holdings. Refer to Malcolm's: "Kosovo, a short history", pg 352. Its obvious that these colons, got their free 5 hectares of land, sold it after 1999, and now don't to waste their lives to build "Greater Serbia" in Kosova.

Very few people understand the intricacies of the Kosovo problem. This article is a fair attempt at explaining it. However, to allow NATO & the U.N., under the U.S.'s instigation, to intervene in a sovereign nation's internal affairs, rip off a part of its territory, and then help it to become independent, sets a very dangerous precedent. I have lived in Kosovo for 5 years. I know the situation on the ground. Serbia has its hands tied. The international community will have its way, either through threatening Serbia regarding EU accession, or offering them the carrot if they will comply.

It doesn't matter. 100,000, 1 million dead. Who cares. When it comes to the media and the balkans, the truth is the last thing they think about. It doesn't matter that the official death toll the UN uses is less than 5 thousand. Which includes both sides. It doesn't matter that less than 100,000 were killed in Bosnia, on all sides. The media will still throw out big numbers and in the same sentence blame the Serbs. And of course dumb Americans believe it and go around repeating it. I always say Joseph Goebbels would be very proud!!! If you repeat a lie over and over again, it becomes the truth. That's why no one can argue exactly what the Serbs are guilty over. Racak? Tons of articles on the net going into how that was a possible hoax. Srebrenica? It is been stated that many of those considered killed in Srebrenica VOTED in recent elections. Also the fact that since the war ended, the number has gone from 6 thousand to 7 thousand to now 8 thousand. And yet, how many bodies were found? Not nearly that many. So why is the number going up? Oh wait, the Bosnians said their family was missing. So let me get this straight. Some Bosnian kid goes off to fight. He dies in some battle in the forest. and suddenly he is now lumped into the same category with everyone else in order to make Srebrenica look worse. It's like a German death in Poland being attributed to Stalingrad. In other words, you take a few dead here and there, lump them together, and you now have a big number to argue there was a massacare.

The point is... the media has never really cared too much about the truth. The fact that this article suggests that 100,000 died in Kosovo is insane. There is no honest originization in the entire world that would even suggest a high number like that. But hey, when you're trying to make the Serbs look bad in the media, the truth doesn't matter.

Pathetic!

yeh its 10,000 i guess the reporter was too pasionate

The number comes from all the trucks in the Danuve full of Albanian civilian bodies, as well as the mass graves all over Belgrade.

I believe they got there information wrong.

100,000 killed? where does this number come from???
(billy, 17 February 2007, 16:07)

The English times seems to have added a "0" to 10,000.

I hope that this would not lead to another World War, because they all started here in Balcans, b/c or someone else interests. And Russia, better look itself, because it's hands are all with blood.

"200,000 left the province, never to return?
Where does this number come from????? According to the Serbian govt census of 91, in Kosova there were only 190,000 serbs. 120,000 of them still remain in Kosova, a loss of population of only 70,000. Plus or minus a small delta accounting for the demographic change within that group; but is ridiculous to think that serbs grew from 190,000 to 320,000 within 15 years. Unless each serbian woman of fertility age gave birth to 30 children during that period of time.
Try some arithmetics please!

"never to return?
According to - again - Serbian govt that complained to UNMIK deputy chief Steven Schook, when he visited Belgrade on 14 June 2006, I quote: "Belgrade claims that only some 10,000 Serb refugees have returned to their homes over the past seven years". Taking into account the Serbian govt propensity to play with numbers for obvious propaganda reasons, that number is probably higher. But let's take that number; ok, 10,000 out of 70,000, means that one in seven refugees have returned, leaving the number the refugees to 60,000. And that's an ongoing process. But it can hardly paint a picture of a Kosova govt bent on ethnic cleansing, quite to the contrary, if we consider how many of these refugees really want to return.

There are many reasons why some Serbs will never return; some of them have committed crimes and don't want to face justice, some have never had deep roots in Kosova to begin with, being lured in the province by the Serbian govt programme of colonization, such as the law passed in the summer of 1991, that gave Serb and Montenegrins wishing to settle in Kosova, the right to 5 hectares of land, to be supplied free of charge out of municipal land-holdings. Refer to Malcolm's: "Kosovo, a short history", pg 352. Its obvious that these colons, got their free 5 hectares of land, sold it after 1999, and now don't to waste their lives to build "Greater Serbia" in Kosova.

Whoever wrote this article that is full of lies and one-sided propoganda after seven years of knowning the the truth should be given the true facts just one more time and asked to rewite the article honestly and impartialially. If the "journalist" involved could not rewite the truth, then I would find his or her superior that was responsible for this and hold them totally RESPONSIBLE.

They say that an impartial and honest media is the cornerstone of a free democratic society, and I would agree with them.

200,000 left Kosovo? According to ESI, only 60,000 Serbs left Kosovo! Maybe, if you count 120,000 VJ and MUP that left Kosovo in 1999!

luciano wrote:
"t is becoming increasingly obvious that the EU is desperately hoping to get a legal decision on Kosovo's independence at the UN level.After George Bush's total disregard for UN authorization for the Iraq invasion many Europeans cited the fact that Bush had no legal authority to do this so now they cannot allow their image to be one of hypocrisy in recognizing Kosovo's independence without UN authorization.The US has gotten itself in a jam by promising Albanians independence in Kosovo.The legalist Europeans have gotten themselves in a jam by calling for the absolute adherence to the UN process and the Russians are sitting and smiling at their good fortunes."

I totally agree.
and the EU won´t disqualify itself as being only a union on the paper by unilateral recognitions...

It doesn't matter what is printed and said. For future generations it matters that Serbs be offered equal citizenship and autonomy in their own country.It matters that Serbia will remain intact and sovereign whoever lives in Kosovo. It matters that the EU will not have Serbia and take away Kosovo at the same time!

I recognize my ignorance on this issue, as my government and news media never cared enough about the Balkans to spend more than a passing moment reporting on the horrors of warfare that passed there. I would simply like to say that even though the numbers may be subject to manipulation, arguing over them doesn't do anyone any service. People who argue over the number of Jews executed in the Holocaust are seen as deniers and are unable to really make any kind of case for their claims. No one will believe a passionate proclaimation from one side nor the other. Both must come together with the data and look into it, not into conjecture.

Regardless of your beliefs about numbers, the fact of the matter is that there is still strong risidual hate lingering in the words of politicians and civilians alike. The fear behind those voices is testament to the divisions that have not been challenged since before the wars. Now the world community, including the Balkans, will have to reap the whirlwind left in the wake of destruction and unhealed wounds.

Taking a country's soverign territory is a huge move for the UN, and I doubt it will be well tolerated, but with ethnic partitioning so entreanched and fear so pungent, what do Serbs expect? Both sides are guilty. No one is innocent. So let's stop pointing the finger out, look inwards, and find the real things we want from and with oneanother.

Can we love the one who has hurt us? The answer to this question is the key to peace.

Jovan it is amazing how much hope you all have that the big and great Russia will come once again to your salvation - oh, wait...whenever did that happen??!!Never.Kosova will get it't ticket for it's independence no matter what the likes like Jovan say coz we know the way serbian converstaion goes - nowhere...

100,000 peolpe killed!
How many inhabitants Kosovo had before 1999?

to the guy who seems not to read my comments properly:

hey Aferdita, I never said I hope something. can you once and for all time understand that?
you are misinterpreting everything here. how boring is this?

Russia is not a friend to Serbia, nor is the US to the Albanians. YOU are the one who is hoping something that is simply not the fact.

to make it clear: Russia is in a far better position now, so, by flexing their muscles, they could improve their own stand, and if veto-ing they would help Serbia only as a side-effect.

you are overestimating Serbias importance for Russia, and you are even more overestimating the importance of the Albanians for the US.

...the only thing you can hope for is a unilateral recognition, and , that my boy, is not a good precondition to start from the mess you are living in...

but, take care, you will learn what I meant.

Everyone is always stressing Milosevic's recent "crackdown" on Kosovo's Albanians. This is referred to as being barbaric, while the killing of innocent Serbs is called "reprisal killing." What people ignore is that Albanians have been killing and oppressing Serbs in Kosovo ever since the Ottoman Turks came to the Balkans in the 14th century. Albanians quickly adopted Islam, while the Serbs remained Christians. Who do you think persecuted whom under Turkish rule? After Serbs reclaimed Kosovo, Albanians used every foreign invasion to continue their persecution of Serbs. In WWII they sided with the Nazis who then allowed them to do what they pleased to the Serbs. Why can't Milosevic's crackdown also be termed as "reprisal killings" then? In the final analysis, I'm sure there has been plenty of back and forth killing throughout the years. But the fact remains that Kosovo is legally a part of Serbia. What right does the West have to cede another sovereign nation's territory without it's consent? Why don't they grant minoritities within their own borders independence?

“would simply like to say that even though the numbers may be subject to manipulation, arguing over them doesn't do anyone any service. People who argue over the number of Jews executed in the Holocaust are seen as deniers and are unable to really make any kind of case for their claims. (Andrew, 18 February 2007, 20:11)”

Andrew,

We actually aren’t arguing over the numbers. There are experts hired by the International community to look into exactly these issues. The number they have come to is roughly 10,000 on all sides in the conflict in Kosovo, military-civilian & Albanian-Serbian. If we can not rely on the opinion of World Experts, then there is no one we can rely on.

Clearly whoever wrote this article used outdated propaganda from early in the conflict, when crazy completely made up numbers were being used as “facts”. This is simply an example of sloppy journalism without checking the current estimates. I would even go so far as to suggest the possibility is that the Times never ran an article in regards to the current numbers, and hence when the reporter did their research, they only checked earlier accounts by the Times of the conflict.

I personally find it very distasteful to question what is portrayed in the media, as I am ashamed at what was done in the name of the Serbian nation, but I also think that in order for reconciliation to occur (which must at some point in the future if we are all to join Europe) that we need to politely point out the incorrect rhetoric and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Just as many Americans are still convinced there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 or that he had WMD’s, many people in the world are not aware of the current estimates on the death tolls and actrocities that occurred in the Balkans. Yes, they were brutal by modern European standards, however we Serbs would like the full truth of the crimes exposed and in the open more then anyone. The reality is the crimes were not as bad as proclaimed by the media, yet those same misconceptions are still repeated as facts.

I am sure that the Times has issued a correction by now, and if they haven’t we should all email them with proper sourcing and citations. Its not an issue of arguing over numbers, its an issue of confidence in the Experts and relying on the information they provide.

Basically, its more like if someone said 60 Million Jews were killed and not 6 million. I am sure even you would not support a reputable newspaper printing something like that.

100,000 killed? where does this number come from???

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1398143.ece

good question, billy.

seems like that is just another cheap try to "convince" the Serbs to be " wise " and give up their territory in order to give that present to the Albanians, who of course " have strong moral points" on their side...

how laughable is this actually?

I don´t see any morally implied reasons at all that would serve the greater albanian goal. ( didn´t they side with the Nazi´s in WWII ? )
isn´t KiM a epi-center of drug and human-trafficking, even though there are internationals ruling the province?

there were times, the "Times" published better analyses...

I noticed that also. Amazing how these journalists can get away with posting these inaccurate lies, in turn swating public opinion. There should be a law. Just like I read a recent so-called unbiased view about the situation in Kosovo, and the writer referred to the province as Kosova. Too much.

That number probably comes from "reliable sources" or historical facts. hahahaha

If Russia is so against this plan then why are there police officers from Russia working in the (UNMIK)mission? Isnt it a waste of their time based on their countrys opinion of the statehood of Kosovo?

It doesn't come from anywhere Billy, you made it up. The article says 1,000 not 100,000

BOLD is the key word here.Does the EU care enough about the Balkans to think outside the box and present radical benefits to all parties sooner rather than later?MASSIVE financial incentives coupled with IMMEDIATE social and political programs should be offered to all the parties.The 7 CEFTA countries only comprise 30 million people which is not going to have any negative economic effect if they are given immediate membership in an existing market of 490 million making borders irrelevant.To the cynics who keep talking about second or third class status within the EU try to FOCUS on the fact that NOT all existing countries put restrictions on the free movement of people in regards to new members and for the ones that do put restrictions there is only a 7 year period in which they can do so.A common European homeland is more important than any one ethnic group when you look at the big picture.

My mistake. I finally got a hold of the full article. I see where you referenced that number.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the EU is desperately hoping to get a legal decision on Kosovo's independence at the UN level.After George Bush's total disregard for UN authorization for the Iraq invasion many Europeans cited the fact that Bush had no legal authority to do this so now they cannot allow their image to be one of hypocrisy in recognizing Kosovo's independence without UN authorization.The US has gotten itself in a jam by promising Albanians independence in Kosovo.The legalist Europeans have gotten themselves in a jam by calling for the absolute adherence to the UN process and the Russians are sitting and smiling at their good fortunes.The EU needs to think outside the box because this is going to be a lose/lose situation if they cannot get unanimity on this issue.Russia today is a rich country and Serbia today has a relatively democratic regime in Belgrade so present day realities are completely different than 1999.Having said this Prince's song 1999 just came into my mind.

100,000 killed and this is sort of a Pro-Serb article!!!! A prime example of how distortions of the truth have a habit of repeating themselves and sticking in the national conscious. Where’s Victor? He should cite this article for his future distortions of the truth.

In reality, we should probably all write letters to the Times asking them to correct it. It’s a gross exaggeration. I am very sorry for the suffering of the Albanian people, and even one innocent life lost is too much. However, in the interests of future peace, we must establish the truth of what happened. We Serbs should come completely clean with what we know about what happened there. I am sure we did in fact commit crimes, however I am also sure that the reality of our crimes were far less then what is often portrayed in the media. We have nothing to lose by pursuing the truth and we must acknowledge those crimes for which we are responsible.

"200,000 left the province, never to return”
Where does this number come from????? According to the Serbian govt census of 91, in Kosova there were only 190,000 serbs. 120,000 of them still remain in Kosova, a loss of population of only 70,000. Plus or minus a small delta accounting for the demographic change within that group; but is ridiculous to think that serbs grew from 190,000 to 320,000 within 15 years. Unless each serbian woman of fertility age gave birth to 30 children during that period of time.
Try some arithmetics please!

"never to return”
According to - again - Serbian govt that complained to UNMIK deputy chief Steven Schook, when he visited Belgrade on 14 June 2006, I quote: "Belgrade claims that only some 10,000 Serb refugees have returned to their homes over the past seven years". Taking into account the Serbian govt propensity to play with numbers for obvious propaganda reasons, that number is probably higher. But let's take that number; ok, 10,000 out of 70,000, means that one in seven refugees have returned, leaving the number the refugees to 60,000. And that's an ongoing process. But it can hardly paint a picture of a Kosova govt bent on ethnic cleansing, quite to the contrary, if we consider how many of these refugees really want to return.

There are many reasons why some Serbs will never return; some of them have committed crimes and don't want to face justice, some have never had deep roots in Kosova to begin with, being lured in the province by the Serbian govt programme of colonization, such as the law passed in the summer of 1991, that gave Serb and Montenegrins wishing to settle in Kosova, the right to 5 hectares of land, to be supplied free of charge out of municipal land-holdings. Refer to Malcolm's: "Kosovo, a short history", pg 352. Its obvious that these colons, got their free 5 hectares of land, sold it after 1999, and now don't to waste their lives to build "Greater Serbia" in Kosova.

Very few people understand the intricacies of the Kosovo problem. This article is a fair attempt at explaining it. However, to allow NATO & the U.N., under the U.S.'s instigation, to intervene in a sovereign nation's internal affairs, rip off a part of its territory, and then help it to become independent, sets a very dangerous precedent. I have lived in Kosovo for 5 years. I know the situation on the ground. Serbia has its hands tied. The international community will have its way, either through threatening Serbia regarding EU accession, or offering them the carrot if they will comply.

It doesn't matter. 100,000, 1 million dead. Who cares. When it comes to the media and the balkans, the truth is the last thing they think about. It doesn't matter that the official death toll the UN uses is less than 5 thousand. Which includes both sides. It doesn't matter that less than 100,000 were killed in Bosnia, on all sides. The media will still throw out big numbers and in the same sentence blame the Serbs. And of course dumb Americans believe it and go around repeating it. I always say Joseph Goebbels would be very proud!!! If you repeat a lie over and over again, it becomes the truth. That's why no one can argue exactly what the Serbs are guilty over. Racak? Tons of articles on the net going into how that was a possible hoax. Srebrenica? It is been stated that many of those considered killed in Srebrenica VOTED in recent elections. Also the fact that since the war ended, the number has gone from 6 thousand to 7 thousand to now 8 thousand. And yet, how many bodies were found? Not nearly that many. So why is the number going up? Oh wait, the Bosnians said their family was missing. So let me get this straight. Some Bosnian kid goes off to fight. He dies in some battle in the forest. and suddenly he is now lumped into the same category with everyone else in order to make Srebrenica look worse. It's like a German death in Poland being attributed to Stalingrad. In other words, you take a few dead here and there, lump them together, and you now have a big number to argue there was a massacare.

The point is... the media has never really cared too much about the truth. The fact that this article suggests that 100,000 died in Kosovo is insane. There is no honest originization in the entire world that would even suggest a high number like that. But hey, when you're trying to make the Serbs look bad in the media, the truth doesn't matter.

Pathetic!

yeh its 10,000 i guess the reporter was too pasionate

The number comes from all the trucks in the Danuve full of Albanian civilian bodies, as well as the mass graves all over Belgrade.

I believe they got there information wrong.

100,000 killed? where does this number come from???
(billy, 17 February 2007, 16:07)

The English times seems to have added a "0" to 10,000.

I hope that this would not lead to another World War, because they all started here in Balcans, b/c or someone else interests. And Russia, better look itself, because it's hands are all with blood.

"200,000 left the province, never to return?
Where does this number come from????? According to the Serbian govt census of 91, in Kosova there were only 190,000 serbs. 120,000 of them still remain in Kosova, a loss of population of only 70,000. Plus or minus a small delta accounting for the demographic change within that group; but is ridiculous to think that serbs grew from 190,000 to 320,000 within 15 years. Unless each serbian woman of fertility age gave birth to 30 children during that period of time.
Try some arithmetics please!

"never to return?
According to - again - Serbian govt that complained to UNMIK deputy chief Steven Schook, when he visited Belgrade on 14 June 2006, I quote: "Belgrade claims that only some 10,000 Serb refugees have returned to their homes over the past seven years". Taking into account the Serbian govt propensity to play with numbers for obvious propaganda reasons, that number is probably higher. But let's take that number; ok, 10,000 out of 70,000, means that one in seven refugees have returned, leaving the number the refugees to 60,000. And that's an ongoing process. But it can hardly paint a picture of a Kosova govt bent on ethnic cleansing, quite to the contrary, if we consider how many of these refugees really want to return.

There are many reasons why some Serbs will never return; some of them have committed crimes and don't want to face justice, some have never had deep roots in Kosova to begin with, being lured in the province by the Serbian govt programme of colonization, such as the law passed in the summer of 1991, that gave Serb and Montenegrins wishing to settle in Kosova, the right to 5 hectares of land, to be supplied free of charge out of municipal land-holdings. Refer to Malcolm's: "Kosovo, a short history", pg 352. Its obvious that these colons, got their free 5 hectares of land, sold it after 1999, and now don't to waste their lives to build "Greater Serbia" in Kosova.

Whoever wrote this article that is full of lies and one-sided propoganda after seven years of knowning the the truth should be given the true facts just one more time and asked to rewite the article honestly and impartialially. If the "journalist" involved could not rewite the truth, then I would find his or her superior that was responsible for this and hold them totally RESPONSIBLE.

They say that an impartial and honest media is the cornerstone of a free democratic society, and I would agree with them.

200,000 left Kosovo? According to ESI, only 60,000 Serbs left Kosovo! Maybe, if you count 120,000 VJ and MUP that left Kosovo in 1999!

luciano wrote:
"t is becoming increasingly obvious that the EU is desperately hoping to get a legal decision on Kosovo's independence at the UN level.After George Bush's total disregard for UN authorization for the Iraq invasion many Europeans cited the fact that Bush had no legal authority to do this so now they cannot allow their image to be one of hypocrisy in recognizing Kosovo's independence without UN authorization.The US has gotten itself in a jam by promising Albanians independence in Kosovo.The legalist Europeans have gotten themselves in a jam by calling for the absolute adherence to the UN process and the Russians are sitting and smiling at their good fortunes."

I totally agree.
and the EU won´t disqualify itself as being only a union on the paper by unilateral recognitions...

It doesn't matter what is printed and said. For future generations it matters that Serbs be offered equal citizenship and autonomy in their own country.It matters that Serbia will remain intact and sovereign whoever lives in Kosovo. It matters that the EU will not have Serbia and take away Kosovo at the same time!

I recognize my ignorance on this issue, as my government and news media never cared enough about the Balkans to spend more than a passing moment reporting on the horrors of warfare that passed there. I would simply like to say that even though the numbers may be subject to manipulation, arguing over them doesn't do anyone any service. People who argue over the number of Jews executed in the Holocaust are seen as deniers and are unable to really make any kind of case for their claims. No one will believe a passionate proclaimation from one side nor the other. Both must come together with the data and look into it, not into conjecture.

Regardless of your beliefs about numbers, the fact of the matter is that there is still strong risidual hate lingering in the words of politicians and civilians alike. The fear behind those voices is testament to the divisions that have not been challenged since before the wars. Now the world community, including the Balkans, will have to reap the whirlwind left in the wake of destruction and unhealed wounds.

Taking a country's soverign territory is a huge move for the UN, and I doubt it will be well tolerated, but with ethnic partitioning so entreanched and fear so pungent, what do Serbs expect? Both sides are guilty. No one is innocent. So let's stop pointing the finger out, look inwards, and find the real things we want from and with oneanother.

Can we love the one who has hurt us? The answer to this question is the key to peace.

Jovan it is amazing how much hope you all have that the big and great Russia will come once again to your salvation - oh, wait...whenever did that happen??!!Never.Kosova will get it't ticket for it's independence no matter what the likes like Jovan say coz we know the way serbian converstaion goes - nowhere...

100,000 peolpe killed!
How many inhabitants Kosovo had before 1999?

to the guy who seems not to read my comments properly:

hey Aferdita, I never said I hope something. can you once and for all time understand that?
you are misinterpreting everything here. how boring is this?

Russia is not a friend to Serbia, nor is the US to the Albanians. YOU are the one who is hoping something that is simply not the fact.

to make it clear: Russia is in a far better position now, so, by flexing their muscles, they could improve their own stand, and if veto-ing they would help Serbia only as a side-effect.

you are overestimating Serbias importance for Russia, and you are even more overestimating the importance of the Albanians for the US.

...the only thing you can hope for is a unilateral recognition, and , that my boy, is not a good precondition to start from the mess you are living in...

but, take care, you will learn what I meant.

Everyone is always stressing Milosevic's recent "crackdown" on Kosovo's Albanians. This is referred to as being barbaric, while the killing of innocent Serbs is called "reprisal killing." What people ignore is that Albanians have been killing and oppressing Serbs in Kosovo ever since the Ottoman Turks came to the Balkans in the 14th century. Albanians quickly adopted Islam, while the Serbs remained Christians. Who do you think persecuted whom under Turkish rule? After Serbs reclaimed Kosovo, Albanians used every foreign invasion to continue their persecution of Serbs. In WWII they sided with the Nazis who then allowed them to do what they pleased to the Serbs. Why can't Milosevic's crackdown also be termed as "reprisal killings" then? In the final analysis, I'm sure there has been plenty of back and forth killing throughout the years. But the fact remains that Kosovo is legally a part of Serbia. What right does the West have to cede another sovereign nation's territory without it's consent? Why don't they grant minoritities within their own borders independence?

“would simply like to say that even though the numbers may be subject to manipulation, arguing over them doesn't do anyone any service. People who argue over the number of Jews executed in the Holocaust are seen as deniers and are unable to really make any kind of case for their claims. (Andrew, 18 February 2007, 20:11)”

Andrew,

We actually aren’t arguing over the numbers. There are experts hired by the International community to look into exactly these issues. The number they have come to is roughly 10,000 on all sides in the conflict in Kosovo, military-civilian & Albanian-Serbian. If we can not rely on the opinion of World Experts, then there is no one we can rely on.

Clearly whoever wrote this article used outdated propaganda from early in the conflict, when crazy completely made up numbers were being used as “facts”. This is simply an example of sloppy journalism without checking the current estimates. I would even go so far as to suggest the possibility is that the Times never ran an article in regards to the current numbers, and hence when the reporter did their research, they only checked earlier accounts by the Times of the conflict.

I personally find it very distasteful to question what is portrayed in the media, as I am ashamed at what was done in the name of the Serbian nation, but I also think that in order for reconciliation to occur (which must at some point in the future if we are all to join Europe) that we need to politely point out the incorrect rhetoric and blatant manipulation of the facts.

Just as many Americans are still convinced there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 or that he had WMD’s, many people in the world are not aware of the current estimates on the death tolls and actrocities that occurred in the Balkans. Yes, they were brutal by modern European standards, however we Serbs would like the full truth of the crimes exposed and in the open more then anyone. The reality is the crimes were not as bad as proclaimed by the media, yet those same misconceptions are still repeated as facts.

I am sure that the Times has issued a correction by now, and if they haven’t we should all email them with proper sourcing and citations. Its not an issue of arguing over numbers, its an issue of confidence in the Experts and relying on the information they provide.

Basically, its more like if someone said 60 Million Jews were killed and not 6 million. I am sure even you would not support a reputable newspaper printing something like that.