"We will propose amendments"

Hi Blag, Matthew, Mike, Jovan, Kate, Brian, Phillip D. and others,

you might find these links insightful as to how and why Athisarri has directed the negotiations [sic] the way he has. The link is to The Public International Law & Policy Group (PILPG). The following links are of discussions held to play out scenario's of negotiation in 2002/3.

Kosovo Lessons Learned, March 2002
http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/PILPGKosovoMarch2002Report.pdf

Kosovo Lessons Learned, December 2003
http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/PILPGKosovoMarch2002Report.pdf


You can find them and the associated negotiation packs for the Serbs, Albanians, and Internationals.

http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/#Kosovo

It would seem as ever this is all predetermined from a few years ago - if you look into there financial supporters - hint see The Open Society Institute.

It would seem that some had already deemed that talks would not be allowed even before they were suggested.

The best negotiators start with the small issues and build up to the most important ones after confidence building has been established.

Jeremic: “Naturally, there will be no compromises when it comes to preserving our national interests in Kosovo”

If the Serbian side enters the negotiations by declaring that they will refuse to compromise, the fault will be squarely on the Serbian side. For the whole of last year they refused to compromise and now pretend that those not real negotiations. Be serious please!

The tone of the message Serbia is putting out to the world here is a definite improvement over the rhetoric that emanated out of the Milosevic regime. Serbia must stay on point in an articulate fashion and attempt to participate in a constructive manner. Serbia must come up with a solid list of points to consider in any compromise position. Simply rejecting what is on the table without a real alternative is simply not viable. They must have some sort of reasonable suggestions to replace the provisions of the proposal which they reject. They must consider the well being of the Albanian community as well as that of Serbians. I suggest they put forth amendments offering restitution for damage, economic concessions including favorable tariffs, free movement of goods through Serbia and promises of investment. In addition to amendments, Serbia should offer alternative proposals to the UNSC to vote on, and I think the Kosovars should as well. I think certainly on some issues Kosovars and Serbian can easily find agreement. Structure of economic cooperation and minority rights are things that would be more effective and meaningful if they were agreed to between both parties. If Serbia has a backup plan like partition or a land swap idea, now is the proper time to bring them up in a clean, democratic and civilized way. I do not believe stalling for a veto and then asking for partition when Kosovo unilaterally declares independence is the wisest course.

Clearly Russia will not use its veto in the security counsel if Serbia does not respect the UNSC and its institution. Russia has signaled its support for Serbia if Serbia is constructive and plays by the rules of the international community. Serbia would be wise to consider publicly endorsing full compliance with any UNSC decision.

Serbia should protest the absence of the word independence in Ahtisaari’s proposal. By Ahtisaari’s own statements the proposal is just that, independence. If the UNSC is to vote on Independence for Kosovo that should be out and in the open and honest. Voting on it and pretending that is not what it means seriously degenerates the legitimacy of the UNSC and the international community as a whole.

Letting Serbia slide on Mladic & Co. simply because of Kosovo is BS in my opinion. That’s just punishing the Serbian people yet again for Mladic’s actions. Mladic should turn himself in right now at this moment, simply to take that away as an option. Regardless of innocence or guilt, a soldier sometimes must give his life for his country, now would be that time for Mladic.

Just give us a fair hearing in the UNSC and let us propose a viable alternative is all I ask for.

Matthew wrote:

"Regardless of innocence or guilt, a soldier sometimes must give his life for his country, now would be that time for Mladic."

Couldn't agree stronger with Matthew, except that Mladic is no soldier. He's a butcher, liar and coward. A man without moral. And then he has a number of dedicated followers who mistake liar's arrogance for patriotism.

It seems to an outsider like me that all the compromises have been made by the serbian side so far and that the albanians have not moved even one inch frm their original demand for total independence. If the Albanians optimum result for Kosovo is total independence and the Serbians optimum result is total re-integration then the Serbians have already compromised a long way with their proposition for Kosovo to remain within Serbian borders but with a massive amount of self ruler and autonomy. Surely it is now the Albanians turn to make some compromises and try to meet the Serbian government somewhere in the middle?

that´s quite right, Jack.

one gets the impression some Albanians simply refuse to see what is really taking place. they are not moving one single milimeter from their ( unjustified ) maximum demands, but constantly accuse the Serbs of "wanting the land but not the poeple" what can definitely be called an albanian lie.
it is simply not correct. but they, or to be correct, some of them seem to need such a kind of truth-denial in order to keep up their desperate logic of seperation.
it won´t work.

it would probably turn out to be the way the wish it to be, if they were an important nation, but they definitely are not.

Albanians! come to the ground!
be constructive, the EU and UN won´t watch you endlessly acting destructively against all international standards.

it´s just in your own interest.

don´t rely on Ceku, have you asked yourself about his financial background, his earnings, or Thaci´s bank-account?

you are still believing the false leaders.
bad for the Albanians.

To Jack, and Jovan:
You two are winning the PR war. You are making such a good point leaving no point to argue about.
Serbia made compromises? Serbia did not even appologize for their behavior.
Why do I even try to answer to your childish propaganda.
Have a nice day.

Hi Blag, Matthew, Mike, Jovan, Kate, Brian, Phillip D. and others,

you might find these links insightful as to how and why Athisarri has directed the negotiations [sic] the way he has. The link is to The Public International Law & Policy Group (PILPG). The following links are of discussions held to play out scenario's of negotiation in 2002/3.

Kosovo Lessons Learned, March 2002
http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/PILPGKosovoMarch2002Report.pdf

Kosovo Lessons Learned, December 2003
http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/PILPGKosovoMarch2002Report.pdf


You can find them and the associated negotiation packs for the Serbs, Albanians, and Internationals.

http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/areas/peacebuilding/simulations/#Kosovo

It would seem as ever this is all predetermined from a few years ago - if you look into there financial supporters - hint see The Open Society Institute.

It would seem that some had already deemed that talks would not be allowed even before they were suggested.

The best negotiators start with the small issues and build up to the most important ones after confidence building has been established.

Jeremic: “Naturally, there will be no compromises when it comes to preserving our national interests in Kosovo”

If the Serbian side enters the negotiations by declaring that they will refuse to compromise, the fault will be squarely on the Serbian side. For the whole of last year they refused to compromise and now pretend that those not real negotiations. Be serious please!

The tone of the message Serbia is putting out to the world here is a definite improvement over the rhetoric that emanated out of the Milosevic regime. Serbia must stay on point in an articulate fashion and attempt to participate in a constructive manner. Serbia must come up with a solid list of points to consider in any compromise position. Simply rejecting what is on the table without a real alternative is simply not viable. They must have some sort of reasonable suggestions to replace the provisions of the proposal which they reject. They must consider the well being of the Albanian community as well as that of Serbians. I suggest they put forth amendments offering restitution for damage, economic concessions including favorable tariffs, free movement of goods through Serbia and promises of investment. In addition to amendments, Serbia should offer alternative proposals to the UNSC to vote on, and I think the Kosovars should as well. I think certainly on some issues Kosovars and Serbian can easily find agreement. Structure of economic cooperation and minority rights are things that would be more effective and meaningful if they were agreed to between both parties. If Serbia has a backup plan like partition or a land swap idea, now is the proper time to bring them up in a clean, democratic and civilized way. I do not believe stalling for a veto and then asking for partition when Kosovo unilaterally declares independence is the wisest course.

Clearly Russia will not use its veto in the security counsel if Serbia does not respect the UNSC and its institution. Russia has signaled its support for Serbia if Serbia is constructive and plays by the rules of the international community. Serbia would be wise to consider publicly endorsing full compliance with any UNSC decision.

Serbia should protest the absence of the word independence in Ahtisaari’s proposal. By Ahtisaari’s own statements the proposal is just that, independence. If the UNSC is to vote on Independence for Kosovo that should be out and in the open and honest. Voting on it and pretending that is not what it means seriously degenerates the legitimacy of the UNSC and the international community as a whole.

Letting Serbia slide on Mladic & Co. simply because of Kosovo is BS in my opinion. That’s just punishing the Serbian people yet again for Mladic’s actions. Mladic should turn himself in right now at this moment, simply to take that away as an option. Regardless of innocence or guilt, a soldier sometimes must give his life for his country, now would be that time for Mladic.

Just give us a fair hearing in the UNSC and let us propose a viable alternative is all I ask for.

Matthew wrote:

"Regardless of innocence or guilt, a soldier sometimes must give his life for his country, now would be that time for Mladic."

Couldn't agree stronger with Matthew, except that Mladic is no soldier. He's a butcher, liar and coward. A man without moral. And then he has a number of dedicated followers who mistake liar's arrogance for patriotism.

It seems to an outsider like me that all the compromises have been made by the serbian side so far and that the albanians have not moved even one inch frm their original demand for total independence. If the Albanians optimum result for Kosovo is total independence and the Serbians optimum result is total re-integration then the Serbians have already compromised a long way with their proposition for Kosovo to remain within Serbian borders but with a massive amount of self ruler and autonomy. Surely it is now the Albanians turn to make some compromises and try to meet the Serbian government somewhere in the middle?

that´s quite right, Jack.

one gets the impression some Albanians simply refuse to see what is really taking place. they are not moving one single milimeter from their ( unjustified ) maximum demands, but constantly accuse the Serbs of "wanting the land but not the poeple" what can definitely be called an albanian lie.
it is simply not correct. but they, or to be correct, some of them seem to need such a kind of truth-denial in order to keep up their desperate logic of seperation.
it won´t work.

it would probably turn out to be the way the wish it to be, if they were an important nation, but they definitely are not.

Albanians! come to the ground!
be constructive, the EU and UN won´t watch you endlessly acting destructively against all international standards.

it´s just in your own interest.

don´t rely on Ceku, have you asked yourself about his financial background, his earnings, or Thaci´s bank-account?

you are still believing the false leaders.
bad for the Albanians.

To Jack, and Jovan:
You two are winning the PR war. You are making such a good point leaving no point to argue about.
Serbia made compromises? Serbia did not even appologize for their behavior.
Why do I even try to answer to your childish propaganda.
Have a nice day.