“Serbia puts too much faith in Russia”

Kommersant is an anti government newspaper,owned by fugutive oligarch Boris Berezovsky who is hiding in London and who is on Putin's black list.That guy will sooner or later end in some jail in Siberia like Hodorkovsky,don't worry!So,nobody in Moscow gives a damn what Kommersant writes.This Piontkovsky guy is totaly irrelevant as well.Listen only what Putin and Lavrov say,thats official Russia.At the end Putin will personaly decide about use of veto and everybody who has something in his brain can guess what will this great statesmant,KGB colonel,will decide...especially after his last week speech in Munich:-)

Everyone should check out The Times in the UK today (saturday 17th Feb). 2 large pages showing the UK public what it is like to live in Kosovo and Metohija if you're a Serb. The article lists the 200,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs and even highlights the 187 desecrated churches and monastries. The UK has finally been alerted to the truth about Kosovo and Metohija.

I agree that the Serbs put too much faith in the Russians. If we remember well, during te conflict with NATO, Milosevic was sure that the slavic big brother would help him out. This was Milosevic's major blunder. If he had known, he had possibly not started this 'civil' war, so sure he was that NATO would not intervene.

Victor? can you stop attacking only milosevic? it was teh Tudjman and Alija to who started the civil war NOT only Milosevic

I agree with Aca/Swe. "Civil war" if you put it, not only regards to one party's responsibility, but to many! If not so, it would be called "So and so's war", don't you agree Victor?

And thank Goodness UK was shown the truth! I always knew Western Europe will open its eyes to the "true" truth.

^^^ To those comments above: I say YES Serbia needs to consider other options rather than to only depend on Russia's veto.

All in all may the lord help us all and people of Kosovo.

Aca/swe; Victor was refering to the Kosovan war!

And what goes for Russian support to Serbia, good luck just don't forget in -99 what happend!

i love how anything that doesnt favour serb position is just dismissed and "irrelevant". and anything favours serb position is seen as the world awakening.

If you think British public cares about what happens in serbia then u need a reality check...serb public has been pounded for last 17 years images of pain inflicted by serbs, u really think a few articles will change their mind. while serbs can have two pages showing serb suffering, croatia, bosnia and kosovo can have 4 times many more pages showing the pain inflicted by serbs.

as for tudjman and alija, difference is that tudjman and alija didnt want to become the next tito nor did they march towards belgrade. their armies were non-existant when yugoslavia broke up and serbs cowardly took tried to take advantage of that with their JNA. the whole thing would have happened peacefully had milosevic not conned serbian population into thinking he could have them all living in greater serbia. had he not done that, serbia, croatia and bosnia would have been in eu and war crimes would not haunt all sides of the conflict.

Do Albanians know to say reffering to Russia anything else except "remember 1999"?Of course that nobody normal expected that weak,poor Russia would start WW3 cause of Serbia and Kosovo.Nobody expects such a thing today either.And i'm sure that serbian gov. didn't put all its eggs in Russian basket only.But now,in 2007,Russia can ,without any problem, use its veto in the Security council if Putin decides so.That would force USA and their british puppets to unilateraly recognize Kosovo and openly break 1244 resolution.And day after Russia will unilateraly recognize Ossetia,Abkhazia etc. and US/UK can't say anything to Russians about that!So,using veto for Kosovo is actualy in Russian intrest!Either way-they can't loose anything!

@Pejo,

If you read victors other comments on B92 you will se his only attacking Serbia/serbs/milosevic, and never saying that Tudjaman started this, and Alija started that everytime same thing agains serb and serbian peoples, and about kosovo war? civil war? it was war agains occupation and KLA(UCK) terrorism

daniel,

for how long are you following the comments written here?

you wrote:
" i love how anything that doesnt favour serb position is just dismissed and "irrelevant". "

you are either new to this, or you live on another planet, since here on earth its quite the oppossite: what you are accusing the Serbs is just the way the Albanians are arguing all the time.
please compare your point of view with reality.

by the way, posting that the Serbs "cowardly" took advantage of the "non-existent" armies in Croatia and Bosnia, shows both, your level of information and the one of analysis...

it is a widely known fact that croatian officials have been smuggling weapons ( light-weight-rifles, automatics and anti-tank-rockets ) into the territory of the former yugoslav federation.

you don´t seem to know that.

I just read The Times article(thanks to Anthony for notation)and I can't but to wonder how in heavens Western powers can still try to sell us cheap talk of multi ethnic and multi cultural Kosovo.Division and hatred seems to be absolute and definite.I honestly can't see a valid resolution,but in case of Kosovo independence I can almost guaratee a crisis(and not just political)for years to come.West openly supported ethnic cleansing of Serbs areas,and for that, price will be paid.If they(west)realy wanted multi ethnic Kosovo they would have encourage all Serbian refugees back to their homes.But,that was'nt on their agenda,was it?!

This perfectly confirms what I wrote yesterday: people in the Balkans - in this case Serbs and Albanians - will only hear what they want to hear. Serbs want to hide behind Moscow's veto threat, and Albanians love to hurl invectives and engage in grandstanding behind the US. Seriously, it's like two scrawny kids in a playground who each have two bigger tougher kids they know will protect them when they feel threatened. Regardless of whoever wrote the article in Kommersant, the argument is true - Serbia DOES rely too much on an impending Russian veto. And what will happen if that miracle veto doesn't come? Has Serbia a contingency plan? What about Albanians constantly brushing off the threat of a Russian veto? Both sides need to look at the whole picture, not just what they want to believe and what they want to hear. Last time I checked, the US and the Soviet Union used smaller states to fight wars by proxy. Since when do smaller states use superpowers to fight their own battles?

ONE person will decide Russia's stance and that is the chessmaster himself Vladimir Putin.It makes for governing so much easier when you only have one person in control of everything-LOL-with Putin's approval rating among the Russian people at 80% he is the most popular leader in any European country.It is embarrassing that George Bush only has a 30% approval rating among his own people.I have always objectively pointed out the fact that Russia wins either direction it decides to go in on the Kosovo issue.

I think you are all missing the point of what this Russian was saying.

““It would be smart for Serbia to instead focus on Kosovo’s division, since there is still time and space for that”, Moscow’s Strategic Studies Institute director Andrei Piontkovski said.”

Clearly he is supporting a partition plan. Obviously Serbia needs to work strongly towards promoting their interests and position and not rely on merely a veto. A veto may or may not come, however we are more likely to get a Russian veto if we work in good faith on finding a solution that is fair to both sides. I do believe a partition/land swap plan for Kosovo and Presevo has the best chance of bringing lasting peace and security to the people who live in those regions.

Anthony, that is a very fascinating point and just the mere fact that is getting airtime in the media in the UK means something.

Victor, yes Milosevic abused the civilian population of Kosovo for some time, and used this as an issue to solidify his power. However, had not the KLA engaged in a guerilla war, I do not think we would have seen the same level of death and destruction. Not all sides are equally guilty, but to completely dismiss the responsibility of the other sides in the conflict is a great disservice to peace and the future relations of the people in the region. I’m sure the leaders of the KLA knew Milosevic would respond with unreasonable force, and that their plan was to use the suffering of the Kosovar people to promote their plans for Independence. Innocent people always suffer in other’s quests to attain power.

Daniel, your beloved Tudjman was equally guilty as Milosevic in the destruction and ethnic hatred that gripped our once proud nation. Secret agreements with Milosevic to carve up Bosnia, turning on his allies during their greatest moment of weakness and imposing the same level of destruction on the Bosniaks as the Serbs did. Have you seen Mostar? I have, I’ve been there and its still in ruins. That is what your fearless leader did to his allies, we all know how he treated his enemies. Croatia is completely cleansed of Serbians now. In addition, Tudjman’s revisions of history and blatant attempt to change the reality of what happened at Jasenovac is a crime on the same level of Holocaust deniers. I’ve read Tudjman’s work, and he is a monster of the first order. There is a special place in Hell reserved for both Milosevic & Tudjman so they can play together for all time.

Actually the reason why the Serbs are portrayed as "the bad guys" is because Serbs didnt spend millions on PR firms to make themselves look like victims! Serbs suffered just as much as the other sides so please stop playing the victim card. And by the way, Kosovo isnt going anywhere, keep dreaming!

Daniel, you’re certainly right to point out that whatever may not sound appealing to some Serbs, it is regarded as simply “irrelevant.”
There are three options currently present for the solution of the Kosova issue;
1. The proposal may pass the Security Council approval, and Kosova can declare Independence.
2. Russia may refrain itself form voting entirely (neither veto nor approval,) and Kosova can declare Independence.
3. Russia may veto the proposal entirely, and Kosova can still declare Independence, which leaves its recognition to be accepted unilaterally.
As it stands, Kosova’s Independence looks very much possible if not a definite. Rather than deny the reality of it all, it is in Serbia’s best interest to accept reality, work closely with Europe towards a better future for itself and the rest of Europe.

Russia is Serbia's friend and they could help us. In 1999 they were too weak because of their economic situation... having negative economic growth between 1990 and 1998...

And it's true. There is too much faith in Russia. The reason why is because the serbian government is pro-west. Why would Russia help those who are pro-west and not pro-russian? It doesn't make sense. When Serbia's government is pro-russian we will have 100% backing from countries like Russia, Belarus, Venezuela, and others, and we will get support on kosovo and other economic things.

I have often read that Milosevic did not want to negociate with Tudjman and Alija; his idea was already made: the creation of Greater Serbia. He thought the time had come and the western nations would not lift a little finger to stop him.

I would like to thank Daniel for his post. He helps us to understand that the only thing that really matters for Serbia has nothing to do with justice for the victims of the wars in the Balkans, but their own interpretation of the conflict based upon desinformation and propaganda.

Well said Daniel !

Its high time the Serbs faced what they did. Its far from correct in trying to blame all side equally when its clear who started each of the 4 wars during the 1990s ... Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia & Kosovo.

Clearly there's a common denominator.

yugoslavia broke up and serbs cowardly took tried to take advantage of that with their JNA. the whole thing would have happened peacefully had milosevic not conned serbian population (daniel, 17 February 2007, 16:33)

Again, what does the JNA have to do with Milosevic. Ante Markovic was the President of Yugoslavia and General Kadijevic was the General of the JNA, Milosevic did not have command and control of the armed forces during the years of 1991-1995.

If he had known, he had possibly not started this 'civil' war, so sure he was that NATO would not intervene.
(Victor, 17 February 2007, 13:40

First of all, contrary to the propoganda that you read, Milosevic did not start a "war" ,the break of Yugoslavia began with the unilateral declaration of independance of Slovenia, and later Bosnia/Herzegovina,and Croatia. At that time, it was the federal republic of Yugoslavia which was run by a rotating presidency , Milosevic was the PM of the republic of Serbia. However, Milosevic did use his political influence by influencing and at times freezing decisions made by the federal republic of Yugoslavia given that he had 4 out of 8 votes within the federation given that Vojvodina and Kosovo were autonomous states under Serbia.

RE: Russian in 1999 and 2007

Between the Years of 1991-1999, Russia was shook with 'perasroika" and the coup de etat of Gorbachev who was replaced by Yeltsin. (with the help of the CIA)They were highly dependant on US Aid , and in fact, Yeltin compromised the DUMA by sending tanks and his own forces to bomb his own parliament.

Putin is not making the same mistake and Russia is asserting it's own national interests above and beyond US and EU interests.

Aca/swe, Dex-ATL
You just agreed to something that world has been trying to prove all along. Of course it wasn't only Milosevic's fault. I'll quote Dex-ALT- "I agree with Aca/Swe. "Civil war" if you put it, not only regards to one party's responsibility, but to many!". Most of the political parties in Serbia were pro KILLING Kosovar-Albs, there is no doubt about it. But isn't it true that Serbia voted for those politicians? Now, isn't it true that Serbia wanted to KILL K-Albs. Having said that, is it fair to say that Serbia Killed its own citizens? Why would the world trust them? Yes, Milosevic is dead but his puppies are still running the show. Actually they also won in the January elections. "Deja vu" - Serbians are stuck in the past, they can't seem to live with the fact that have lost the LUXARY LIFE. (If, you didn't know, 60% of Kosovar-Albs were fired after 1989, and all those jobs were taken by Kosovar Serbs who became rich very fast). My friends, war started long before March, 1999, and nobody in Serbia came forward to apologize to Kosovar-Albs. No politician visited Kosovo after the war (until the negotiations started). The truth of this metter is that Kosovo has been independent since 1999, world recognizes its presidents, and PMs. Please do find a country in the world with 2 presidents and 2 PMs!?
One more thing. I wish Russia vetos Ahtisar's proposal, it will lead to a faster independence for Kosovo. I know there isn't a Santa Clause, but I heard that Ahtisar is willing to dress like him this Spring and bring a huge gift to Kosovo.

NO HATE

boys, ( daniel, victor and markus )

...you have read your "sources" quite well, but they are worthless if you do not realize, that you are the ones that have been duped...

I won´t start teaching you, since in regard to the level of your indoctrination this is senseless...

there is no moral, legal or political right for the Albanians to secede, since it is serbian territory they live on.
by relying on those cheap trick-suggestions of unilateral recognitions, you simply show who in fact is being a desperate dreamer and refusing to accept reality.
and just in case, you are posters from the german-speaking regions,( since markus with a "k" looks like german ) ...do you really think the media-sources you are reading, are reliable?
just think it over.

only one hint: you are wasting your time.

http://www.securityconference.de/konferenzen/rede.php?menu_2007=&menu_konferenzen=&sprache=de&id=179&

Mr.Putin´s speech in english translation, although I missed some parts in the text that I heard him saying.
maybe they didn´t mention it only being a summary.

Russia is back on the scene, whoever doubts that is closing eyes in front of reality.

just to make it clear:
I do not dream of the Russians being the Serb´s friends, it´s just a sound look on reality.

it is the President of the Russian Federation who has spoken.

Bush jr. has not even lost a single offical word...

so much for american dominance or should I write it rather in the words of some albananian boys here: " the one and only global super-power" ...?

Russia may see Kosovo independence as a precedent for that of North Ossetia and other such places, but it can work the other way, too. Chechnja is a case in point.

Russia is also a federation with a few discontents in some of its constituent parts. Some of these groups could well be mainpulated by the West or anyone else who wants to destabilise and, eventually, balkanise, Russia itself. I refer especially to the oil and gas rich Caucasus where Chechnja, Dagestan and other Russian republics are situated; not to mention the fact that Russia is still virtually a superpower and a threat to certain western interests globally.

As far as the Serbian Government's stance on Kosovo is concerned, I don't see how elese they can act. Even if they know for sure that Kosovo is lost, or even if they would prefer it was lost, how can they simply roll over and accept western plans for that region?

Resisting western pressure is not really about keeping Kosovo - it's about making sure the west knows that it cannot get everything it wants without taking the consequences for its actions, especially during the 1999 aggression. We are seeing this now in Iraq.

Both the Russian and Serbian governments should, if they are not already doing so, concentrate on that principle.

Matthew

Albanians were suffering even before the war. We weren't even allow to go to schools!

The KLA was formed because people had enough of suffering. We had peaceful leaders and tried peaceful demostrations and protest for years, and nobody wanted to hear about it. The only option in the end was armed resistance, so you cannot blame KLA for the crimes serbs commited.

I wish Russia vetos Ahtisar's proposal, it will lead to a faster independence for Kosovo. I know there isn't a Santa Clause, but I heard that Ahtisar is willing to dress like him this Spring and bring a huge gift to Kosovo.

NO HATE
(Uran, 18 February 2007, 09:58)

Although I do not agree with many of your viewpoints, your one of the few Albanian commentors with some grasp of history. However, trying to continously quote "Greater Serbia" Historians does not give the full picture and Milosevic was not one of those and far from a nationalist contrary to what the media reports.

You know as well as I do that the Kosovo Serb/Albanian problem really intensified after TITO seized power in Yugoslavia in 1946.

Yes, there were purges of the Albanian intelligentsia and it was not only Milosevic who did it. You are probably old enough to remember the purge of the Communist Kosovo Albanian leadership in 1974 and 1981. However, a large part of the Serbian population has been forced to exit Kosovo, and it would be foolish to ignore this fact and you only have to look at the Yugoslav census to verify the numbers.

It is now the turn of the Albanian leadership in Kosovo to show if they can truly lead and provide protection to what is left of the minorities in Kosovo. This has not been done since they have been giving some political freedom since 1999. This was proven in March-2004 when another cleansing of the Serb population took place.

A Russian veto will happen if the Ahtisaar Plan is not agreed upon by both Pristina and Belgrade. Unilateral independance by Kosovo is recipe for disaster for all Kosovars.

2 main mistakes:

moscow doesn´t need western recognition to know which part of georgia, azerbaijan, etc. is theirs and

kosovo is divided, if there is recognition, it won´t count on the non-occupied parts. this is also a great argument why there won´t be international recognition, cause somebody would have to fight for it and therefore endanger the whole project.at the moment nato and albanians don´t have the troops or the money to fight it out.

kreshnik,

don´t write something that simply is not true.

I have read in a scientific work on the site of the german "peace research institute", that the k-albanians were of course allowed to go to school, but chose to boycott it, since they didn´t want to respect the curicula of the SFRJ ( federal socialist republic of yugoslavia ) and so they built up their "own" curriculum, of course containing all those myths about the illyrian ancestry and other propaganda.
that´s in fact the reason why todays Albanians in KiM are so convinced to be the descendants of the illyrians, even if already proven false.

so, there was no such prohibition of school education for Albanians.
simply not true.

“The KLA was formed because people had enough of suffering. We had peaceful leaders and tried peaceful demostrations and protest for years, and nobody wanted to hear about it. The only option in the end was armed resistance, so you cannot blame KLA for the crimes serbs commited.
(kreshnik sh, 18 February 2007, 14:50)”

Kreshnik,

I agree with you that the Albanians in Kosovo were treated rather badly to say the least. I sympathize with your desires not to go through something like that again, no one should. My family were victims of ethnic cleansing in Krajina during Operation Storm and WWII and those types of actions are barbaric no matter which side committed them, I am no hypocrite. Its always the innocent civilians who suffer the most because of the mistakes of political leaders, on that point I am sure we can both agree.

In addition, I am not convinced you had any other good options besides armed resistance. I am sure you are aware from my previous comments that I am a pacifist and I would like nothing more then to find a solution that is acceptable and fair to both our peoples, however unlikely it seems at this point in time. As I’ve said before, I have been publicly condemned as a traitor to the Serbian people on Serbian television for my work with Bosniak humanitarian groups, I am not a nationalist by any stretch of the imagination. My love for Serbia and respect for the cradle of our civilization in no way means that I dislike or disrespect Albanians in any way shape or form. In fact I greatly respect your culture and find it more then fascinating.

However, I do think that the leaders of the KLA choose such a time to make their stand to ensure a very brutal response against the civilian population. This was probably the most assured way on garnering support for the Kosovo independence movement. I am also sure that many Albanians may have been willing to make such a sacrifice in order to ensure freedom from what they considered the Serbian “Yoke”. I fully condemn Milosevic’s response to the KLA actions, but they were also rather predictable and I’m sure the KLA was aware of what they would be, and possibly some members of the KLA welcomed them because it greatly strengthened their position in the International community. It was in fact a very politically astute thing to do at the time. Timing is everything, and such a situation might not have occurred again anytime soon if Milosevic were not in power.

Personally, I have a rather negative attitude towards politicians and military leaders in general, hence my rather dark assessment of KLA’s motivations in what they did. I feel much the same towards many of Bush’s motivations in the Middle East, although I love this country of my Birth, the US. I have absolutely no idea if you had a better option then that to resolve your suffering. I do believe that the KLA probably did some things for which they should be investigated. I am yet to be convinced that the KLA played a constructive role in the conflicts which occurred. I am open to ideas and facts supporting the contrary and if individuals can offer supporting evidence for such conclusions, I promise you I will give them due consideration and may in fact re-evaluate my opinions accordingly. I believe most here would agree that I am in fact a reasonable person. I do try my very best to understand the Albanian position and to consider what is in their interests as well as those of the Serbians. However, I’m sure you know that about me.

“I have often read that Milosevic did not want to negociate with Tudjman and Alija; his idea was already made: the creation of Greater Serbia. He thought the time had come and the western nations would not lift a little finger to stop him. (Victor, 17 February 2007, 22:42)”

Victor, here is a quote from Sylvia Poggioli a very highly respected and well known journalist from a lector she gave at Stanford University. I think the quote basically reiterates what I said about the relationship between Milosevic and Tudjman. The only difference between the two is they were opposite sides of the same nationalist coin.
“I'm referring to at least one not very secret meeting between Croatian President Franjo Tudjman and Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic where they agreed to carve up Bosnia between them.
And even after the war had broken out in 1991, while Tudjman was urging recognition of Croatia, he said publicly several times that the solution to the Yugoslav conflict was the partitioning of Bosnia between Serbia and Croatia.
And in 1992, after war had broken out in Bosnia, Tudjman told reporters that the western community would never allow the creation of what he called a large Muslim state in the heart of Europe.
The Croatian president insisted that only a landlocked Muslim statelet in Central Bosnia was permissible preferably under Croatian protection.
That description is not very dissimilar to what is developing now under the U.S.-brokered Muslim-Croat federation in Bosnia.”
http://knight.stanford.edu/lectures/knight/1995/index.html

The only thing I would add is Croatian flags currently fly on government buildings in the Croatian occupied areas of Bosnia. Serbian flags of course fly in Serbian occupied areas as well, but they’ve always been vocal about wanting to join with Serbia. Many Croatians obviously feel the same.

Kommersant is an anti government newspaper,owned by fugutive oligarch Boris Berezovsky who is hiding in London and who is on Putin's black list.That guy will sooner or later end in some jail in Siberia like Hodorkovsky,don't worry!So,nobody in Moscow gives a damn what Kommersant writes.This Piontkovsky guy is totaly irrelevant as well.Listen only what Putin and Lavrov say,thats official Russia.At the end Putin will personaly decide about use of veto and everybody who has something in his brain can guess what will this great statesmant,KGB colonel,will decide...especially after his last week speech in Munich:-)

Everyone should check out The Times in the UK today (saturday 17th Feb). 2 large pages showing the UK public what it is like to live in Kosovo and Metohija if you're a Serb. The article lists the 200,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs and even highlights the 187 desecrated churches and monastries. The UK has finally been alerted to the truth about Kosovo and Metohija.

I agree that the Serbs put too much faith in the Russians. If we remember well, during te conflict with NATO, Milosevic was sure that the slavic big brother would help him out. This was Milosevic's major blunder. If he had known, he had possibly not started this 'civil' war, so sure he was that NATO would not intervene.

Victor? can you stop attacking only milosevic? it was teh Tudjman and Alija to who started the civil war NOT only Milosevic

I agree with Aca/Swe. "Civil war" if you put it, not only regards to one party's responsibility, but to many! If not so, it would be called "So and so's war", don't you agree Victor?

And thank Goodness UK was shown the truth! I always knew Western Europe will open its eyes to the "true" truth.

^^^ To those comments above: I say YES Serbia needs to consider other options rather than to only depend on Russia's veto.

All in all may the lord help us all and people of Kosovo.

Aca/swe; Victor was refering to the Kosovan war!

And what goes for Russian support to Serbia, good luck just don't forget in -99 what happend!

i love how anything that doesnt favour serb position is just dismissed and "irrelevant". and anything favours serb position is seen as the world awakening.

If you think British public cares about what happens in serbia then u need a reality check...serb public has been pounded for last 17 years images of pain inflicted by serbs, u really think a few articles will change their mind. while serbs can have two pages showing serb suffering, croatia, bosnia and kosovo can have 4 times many more pages showing the pain inflicted by serbs.

as for tudjman and alija, difference is that tudjman and alija didnt want to become the next tito nor did they march towards belgrade. their armies were non-existant when yugoslavia broke up and serbs cowardly took tried to take advantage of that with their JNA. the whole thing would have happened peacefully had milosevic not conned serbian population into thinking he could have them all living in greater serbia. had he not done that, serbia, croatia and bosnia would have been in eu and war crimes would not haunt all sides of the conflict.

Do Albanians know to say reffering to Russia anything else except "remember 1999"?Of course that nobody normal expected that weak,poor Russia would start WW3 cause of Serbia and Kosovo.Nobody expects such a thing today either.And i'm sure that serbian gov. didn't put all its eggs in Russian basket only.But now,in 2007,Russia can ,without any problem, use its veto in the Security council if Putin decides so.That would force USA and their british puppets to unilateraly recognize Kosovo and openly break 1244 resolution.And day after Russia will unilateraly recognize Ossetia,Abkhazia etc. and US/UK can't say anything to Russians about that!So,using veto for Kosovo is actualy in Russian intrest!Either way-they can't loose anything!

@Pejo,

If you read victors other comments on B92 you will se his only attacking Serbia/serbs/milosevic, and never saying that Tudjaman started this, and Alija started that everytime same thing agains serb and serbian peoples, and about kosovo war? civil war? it was war agains occupation and KLA(UCK) terrorism

daniel,

for how long are you following the comments written here?

you wrote:
" i love how anything that doesnt favour serb position is just dismissed and "irrelevant". "

you are either new to this, or you live on another planet, since here on earth its quite the oppossite: what you are accusing the Serbs is just the way the Albanians are arguing all the time.
please compare your point of view with reality.

by the way, posting that the Serbs "cowardly" took advantage of the "non-existent" armies in Croatia and Bosnia, shows both, your level of information and the one of analysis...

it is a widely known fact that croatian officials have been smuggling weapons ( light-weight-rifles, automatics and anti-tank-rockets ) into the territory of the former yugoslav federation.

you don´t seem to know that.

I just read The Times article(thanks to Anthony for notation)and I can't but to wonder how in heavens Western powers can still try to sell us cheap talk of multi ethnic and multi cultural Kosovo.Division and hatred seems to be absolute and definite.I honestly can't see a valid resolution,but in case of Kosovo independence I can almost guaratee a crisis(and not just political)for years to come.West openly supported ethnic cleansing of Serbs areas,and for that, price will be paid.If they(west)realy wanted multi ethnic Kosovo they would have encourage all Serbian refugees back to their homes.But,that was'nt on their agenda,was it?!

This perfectly confirms what I wrote yesterday: people in the Balkans - in this case Serbs and Albanians - will only hear what they want to hear. Serbs want to hide behind Moscow's veto threat, and Albanians love to hurl invectives and engage in grandstanding behind the US. Seriously, it's like two scrawny kids in a playground who each have two bigger tougher kids they know will protect them when they feel threatened. Regardless of whoever wrote the article in Kommersant, the argument is true - Serbia DOES rely too much on an impending Russian veto. And what will happen if that miracle veto doesn't come? Has Serbia a contingency plan? What about Albanians constantly brushing off the threat of a Russian veto? Both sides need to look at the whole picture, not just what they want to believe and what they want to hear. Last time I checked, the US and the Soviet Union used smaller states to fight wars by proxy. Since when do smaller states use superpowers to fight their own battles?

ONE person will decide Russia's stance and that is the chessmaster himself Vladimir Putin.It makes for governing so much easier when you only have one person in control of everything-LOL-with Putin's approval rating among the Russian people at 80% he is the most popular leader in any European country.It is embarrassing that George Bush only has a 30% approval rating among his own people.I have always objectively pointed out the fact that Russia wins either direction it decides to go in on the Kosovo issue.

I think you are all missing the point of what this Russian was saying.

““It would be smart for Serbia to instead focus on Kosovo’s division, since there is still time and space for that”, Moscow’s Strategic Studies Institute director Andrei Piontkovski said.”

Clearly he is supporting a partition plan. Obviously Serbia needs to work strongly towards promoting their interests and position and not rely on merely a veto. A veto may or may not come, however we are more likely to get a Russian veto if we work in good faith on finding a solution that is fair to both sides. I do believe a partition/land swap plan for Kosovo and Presevo has the best chance of bringing lasting peace and security to the people who live in those regions.

Anthony, that is a very fascinating point and just the mere fact that is getting airtime in the media in the UK means something.

Victor, yes Milosevic abused the civilian population of Kosovo for some time, and used this as an issue to solidify his power. However, had not the KLA engaged in a guerilla war, I do not think we would have seen the same level of death and destruction. Not all sides are equally guilty, but to completely dismiss the responsibility of the other sides in the conflict is a great disservice to peace and the future relations of the people in the region. I’m sure the leaders of the KLA knew Milosevic would respond with unreasonable force, and that their plan was to use the suffering of the Kosovar people to promote their plans for Independence. Innocent people always suffer in other’s quests to attain power.

Daniel, your beloved Tudjman was equally guilty as Milosevic in the destruction and ethnic hatred that gripped our once proud nation. Secret agreements with Milosevic to carve up Bosnia, turning on his allies during their greatest moment of weakness and imposing the same level of destruction on the Bosniaks as the Serbs did. Have you seen Mostar? I have, I’ve been there and its still in ruins. That is what your fearless leader did to his allies, we all know how he treated his enemies. Croatia is completely cleansed of Serbians now. In addition, Tudjman’s revisions of history and blatant attempt to change the reality of what happened at Jasenovac is a crime on the same level of Holocaust deniers. I’ve read Tudjman’s work, and he is a monster of the first order. There is a special place in Hell reserved for both Milosevic & Tudjman so they can play together for all time.

Actually the reason why the Serbs are portrayed as "the bad guys" is because Serbs didnt spend millions on PR firms to make themselves look like victims! Serbs suffered just as much as the other sides so please stop playing the victim card. And by the way, Kosovo isnt going anywhere, keep dreaming!

Daniel, you’re certainly right to point out that whatever may not sound appealing to some Serbs, it is regarded as simply “irrelevant.”
There are three options currently present for the solution of the Kosova issue;
1. The proposal may pass the Security Council approval, and Kosova can declare Independence.
2. Russia may refrain itself form voting entirely (neither veto nor approval,) and Kosova can declare Independence.
3. Russia may veto the proposal entirely, and Kosova can still declare Independence, which leaves its recognition to be accepted unilaterally.
As it stands, Kosova’s Independence looks very much possible if not a definite. Rather than deny the reality of it all, it is in Serbia’s best interest to accept reality, work closely with Europe towards a better future for itself and the rest of Europe.

Russia is Serbia's friend and they could help us. In 1999 they were too weak because of their economic situation... having negative economic growth between 1990 and 1998...

And it's true. There is too much faith in Russia. The reason why is because the serbian government is pro-west. Why would Russia help those who are pro-west and not pro-russian? It doesn't make sense. When Serbia's government is pro-russian we will have 100% backing from countries like Russia, Belarus, Venezuela, and others, and we will get support on kosovo and other economic things.

I have often read that Milosevic did not want to negociate with Tudjman and Alija; his idea was already made: the creation of Greater Serbia. He thought the time had come and the western nations would not lift a little finger to stop him.

I would like to thank Daniel for his post. He helps us to understand that the only thing that really matters for Serbia has nothing to do with justice for the victims of the wars in the Balkans, but their own interpretation of the conflict based upon desinformation and propaganda.

Well said Daniel !

Its high time the Serbs faced what they did. Its far from correct in trying to blame all side equally when its clear who started each of the 4 wars during the 1990s ... Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia & Kosovo.

Clearly there's a common denominator.

yugoslavia broke up and serbs cowardly took tried to take advantage of that with their JNA. the whole thing would have happened peacefully had milosevic not conned serbian population (daniel, 17 February 2007, 16:33)

Again, what does the JNA have to do with Milosevic. Ante Markovic was the President of Yugoslavia and General Kadijevic was the General of the JNA, Milosevic did not have command and control of the armed forces during the years of 1991-1995.

If he had known, he had possibly not started this 'civil' war, so sure he was that NATO would not intervene.
(Victor, 17 February 2007, 13:40

First of all, contrary to the propoganda that you read, Milosevic did not start a "war" ,the break of Yugoslavia began with the unilateral declaration of independance of Slovenia, and later Bosnia/Herzegovina,and Croatia. At that time, it was the federal republic of Yugoslavia which was run by a rotating presidency , Milosevic was the PM of the republic of Serbia. However, Milosevic did use his political influence by influencing and at times freezing decisions made by the federal republic of Yugoslavia given that he had 4 out of 8 votes within the federation given that Vojvodina and Kosovo were autonomous states under Serbia.

RE: Russian in 1999 and 2007

Between the Years of 1991-1999, Russia was shook with 'perasroika" and the coup de etat of Gorbachev who was replaced by Yeltsin. (with the help of the CIA)They were highly dependant on US Aid , and in fact, Yeltin compromised the DUMA by sending tanks and his own forces to bomb his own parliament.

Putin is not making the same mistake and Russia is asserting it's own national interests above and beyond US and EU interests.

Aca/swe, Dex-ATL
You just agreed to something that world has been trying to prove all along. Of course it wasn't only Milosevic's fault. I'll quote Dex-ALT- "I agree with Aca/Swe. "Civil war" if you put it, not only regards to one party's responsibility, but to many!". Most of the political parties in Serbia were pro KILLING Kosovar-Albs, there is no doubt about it. But isn't it true that Serbia voted for those politicians? Now, isn't it true that Serbia wanted to KILL K-Albs. Having said that, is it fair to say that Serbia Killed its own citizens? Why would the world trust them? Yes, Milosevic is dead but his puppies are still running the show. Actually they also won in the January elections. "Deja vu" - Serbians are stuck in the past, they can't seem to live with the fact that have lost the LUXARY LIFE. (If, you didn't know, 60% of Kosovar-Albs were fired after 1989, and all those jobs were taken by Kosovar Serbs who became rich very fast). My friends, war started long before March, 1999, and nobody in Serbia came forward to apologize to Kosovar-Albs. No politician visited Kosovo after the war (until the negotiations started). The truth of this metter is that Kosovo has been independent since 1999, world recognizes its presidents, and PMs. Please do find a country in the world with 2 presidents and 2 PMs!?
One more thing. I wish Russia vetos Ahtisar's proposal, it will lead to a faster independence for Kosovo. I know there isn't a Santa Clause, but I heard that Ahtisar is willing to dress like him this Spring and bring a huge gift to Kosovo.

NO HATE

boys, ( daniel, victor and markus )

...you have read your "sources" quite well, but they are worthless if you do not realize, that you are the ones that have been duped...

I won´t start teaching you, since in regard to the level of your indoctrination this is senseless...

there is no moral, legal or political right for the Albanians to secede, since it is serbian territory they live on.
by relying on those cheap trick-suggestions of unilateral recognitions, you simply show who in fact is being a desperate dreamer and refusing to accept reality.
and just in case, you are posters from the german-speaking regions,( since markus with a "k" looks like german ) ...do you really think the media-sources you are reading, are reliable?
just think it over.

only one hint: you are wasting your time.

http://www.securityconference.de/konferenzen/rede.php?menu_2007=&menu_konferenzen=&sprache=de&id=179&

Mr.Putin´s speech in english translation, although I missed some parts in the text that I heard him saying.
maybe they didn´t mention it only being a summary.

Russia is back on the scene, whoever doubts that is closing eyes in front of reality.

just to make it clear:
I do not dream of the Russians being the Serb´s friends, it´s just a sound look on reality.

it is the President of the Russian Federation who has spoken.

Bush jr. has not even lost a single offical word...

so much for american dominance or should I write it rather in the words of some albananian boys here: " the one and only global super-power" ...?

Russia may see Kosovo independence as a precedent for that of North Ossetia and other such places, but it can work the other way, too. Chechnja is a case in point.

Russia is also a federation with a few discontents in some of its constituent parts. Some of these groups could well be mainpulated by the West or anyone else who wants to destabilise and, eventually, balkanise, Russia itself. I refer especially to the oil and gas rich Caucasus where Chechnja, Dagestan and other Russian republics are situated; not to mention the fact that Russia is still virtually a superpower and a threat to certain western interests globally.

As far as the Serbian Government's stance on Kosovo is concerned, I don't see how elese they can act. Even if they know for sure that Kosovo is lost, or even if they would prefer it was lost, how can they simply roll over and accept western plans for that region?

Resisting western pressure is not really about keeping Kosovo - it's about making sure the west knows that it cannot get everything it wants without taking the consequences for its actions, especially during the 1999 aggression. We are seeing this now in Iraq.

Both the Russian and Serbian governments should, if they are not already doing so, concentrate on that principle.

Matthew

Albanians were suffering even before the war. We weren't even allow to go to schools!

The KLA was formed because people had enough of suffering. We had peaceful leaders and tried peaceful demostrations and protest for years, and nobody wanted to hear about it. The only option in the end was armed resistance, so you cannot blame KLA for the crimes serbs commited.

I wish Russia vetos Ahtisar's proposal, it will lead to a faster independence for Kosovo. I know there isn't a Santa Clause, but I heard that Ahtisar is willing to dress like him this Spring and bring a huge gift to Kosovo.

NO HATE
(Uran, 18 February 2007, 09:58)

Although I do not agree with many of your viewpoints, your one of the few Albanian commentors with some grasp of history. However, trying to continously quote "Greater Serbia" Historians does not give the full picture and Milosevic was not one of those and far from a nationalist contrary to what the media reports.

You know as well as I do that the Kosovo Serb/Albanian problem really intensified after TITO seized power in Yugoslavia in 1946.

Yes, there were purges of the Albanian intelligentsia and it was not only Milosevic who did it. You are probably old enough to remember the purge of the Communist Kosovo Albanian leadership in 1974 and 1981. However, a large part of the Serbian population has been forced to exit Kosovo, and it would be foolish to ignore this fact and you only have to look at the Yugoslav census to verify the numbers.

It is now the turn of the Albanian leadership in Kosovo to show if they can truly lead and provide protection to what is left of the minorities in Kosovo. This has not been done since they have been giving some political freedom since 1999. This was proven in March-2004 when another cleansing of the Serb population took place.

A Russian veto will happen if the Ahtisaar Plan is not agreed upon by both Pristina and Belgrade. Unilateral independance by Kosovo is recipe for disaster for all Kosovars.

2 main mistakes:

moscow doesn´t need western recognition to know which part of georgia, azerbaijan, etc. is theirs and

kosovo is divided, if there is recognition, it won´t count on the non-occupied parts. this is also a great argument why there won´t be international recognition, cause somebody would have to fight for it and therefore endanger the whole project.at the moment nato and albanians don´t have the troops or the money to fight it out.

kreshnik,

don´t write something that simply is not true.

I have read in a scientific work on the site of the german "peace research institute", that the k-albanians were of course allowed to go to school, but chose to boycott it, since they didn´t want to respect the curicula of the SFRJ ( federal socialist republic of yugoslavia ) and so they built up their "own" curriculum, of course containing all those myths about the illyrian ancestry and other propaganda.
that´s in fact the reason why todays Albanians in KiM are so convinced to be the descendants of the illyrians, even if already proven false.

so, there was no such prohibition of school education for Albanians.
simply not true.

“The KLA was formed because people had enough of suffering. We had peaceful leaders and tried peaceful demostrations and protest for years, and nobody wanted to hear about it. The only option in the end was armed resistance, so you cannot blame KLA for the crimes serbs commited.
(kreshnik sh, 18 February 2007, 14:50)”

Kreshnik,

I agree with you that the Albanians in Kosovo were treated rather badly to say the least. I sympathize with your desires not to go through something like that again, no one should. My family were victims of ethnic cleansing in Krajina during Operation Storm and WWII and those types of actions are barbaric no matter which side committed them, I am no hypocrite. Its always the innocent civilians who suffer the most because of the mistakes of political leaders, on that point I am sure we can both agree.

In addition, I am not convinced you had any other good options besides armed resistance. I am sure you are aware from my previous comments that I am a pacifist and I would like nothing more then to find a solution that is acceptable and fair to both our peoples, however unlikely it seems at this point in time. As I’ve said before, I have been publicly condemned as a traitor to the Serbian people on Serbian television for my work with Bosniak humanitarian groups, I am not a nationalist by any stretch of the imagination. My love for Serbia and respect for the cradle of our civilization in no way means that I dislike or disrespect Albanians in any way shape or form. In fact I greatly respect your culture and find it more then fascinating.

However, I do think that the leaders of the KLA choose such a time to make their stand to ensure a very brutal response against the civilian population. This was probably the most assured way on garnering support for the Kosovo independence movement. I am also sure that many Albanians may have been willing to make such a sacrifice in order to ensure freedom from what they considered the Serbian “Yoke”. I fully condemn Milosevic’s response to the KLA actions, but they were also rather predictable and I’m sure the KLA was aware of what they would be, and possibly some members of the KLA welcomed them because it greatly strengthened their position in the International community. It was in fact a very politically astute thing to do at the time. Timing is everything, and such a situation might not have occurred again anytime soon if Milosevic were not in power.

Personally, I have a rather negative attitude towards politicians and military leaders in general, hence my rather dark assessment of KLA’s motivations in what they did. I feel much the same towards many of Bush’s motivations in the Middle East, although I love this country of my Birth, the US. I have absolutely no idea if you had a better option then that to resolve your suffering. I do believe that the KLA probably did some things for which they should be investigated. I am yet to be convinced that the KLA played a constructive role in the conflicts which occurred. I am open to ideas and facts supporting the contrary and if individuals can offer supporting evidence for such conclusions, I promise you I will give them due consideration and may in fact re-evaluate my opinions accordingly. I believe most here would agree that I am in fact a reasonable person. I do try my very best to understand the Albanian position and to consider what is in their interests as well as those of the Serbians. However, I’m sure you know that about me.

“I have often read that Milosevic did not want to negociate with Tudjman and Alija; his idea was already made: the creation of Greater Serbia. He thought the time had come and the western nations would not lift a little finger to stop him. (Victor, 17 February 2007, 22:42)”

Victor, here is a quote from Sylvia Poggioli a very highly respected and well known journalist from a lector she gave at Stanford University. I think the quote basically reiterates what I said about the relationship between Milosevic and Tudjman. The only difference between the two is they were opposite sides of the same nationalist coin.
“I'm referring to at least one not very secret meeting between Croatian President Franjo Tudjman and Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic where they agreed to carve up Bosnia between them.
And even after the war had broken out in 1991, while Tudjman was urging recognition of Croatia, he said publicly several times that the solution to the Yugoslav conflict was the partitioning of Bosnia between Serbia and Croatia.
And in 1992, after war had broken out in Bosnia, Tudjman told reporters that the western community would never allow the creation of what he called a large Muslim state in the heart of Europe.
The Croatian president insisted that only a landlocked Muslim statelet in Central Bosnia was permissible preferably under Croatian protection.
That description is not very dissimilar to what is developing now under the U.S.-brokered Muslim-Croat federation in Bosnia.”
http://knight.stanford.edu/lectures/knight/1995/index.html

The only thing I would add is Croatian flags currently fly on government buildings in the Croatian occupied areas of Bosnia. Serbian flags of course fly in Serbian occupied areas as well, but they’ve always been vocal about wanting to join with Serbia. Many Croatians obviously feel the same.