Ahtisaari: Talks can’t extend indefinitely

All these useless talks only serve one purpose: the assumption of responsibility of a people to become a nation, and the realization of policies for the benefit of its citizens and their society.

In French, I would have said: la prise en charge de sa destinée!

These talks are to inform Nato of what plan B might be if plan A fails or what is the situation in diplomacy. If the albanians were to get their independance than why would ahthassari go b/c the albanians would not riot. It must be plan B and Nato must prepare itself to letting the albanians down.

These talks are because the attempt by politicians in the US and UK to prise Kosovo away from its legal sovereign state has run into inevitable problems. They naively believed that this could be signed sealed and delivered and now reality is starting to bite.
The repurcussions would be massive and NATO is clearly worried.

Yes plan B is on the cards and has been discussed since 30 Nov. 2006.

I suggest you all read this from the Econmic Intelligence Unit
and circulated within what seems the UN.

http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/2006-November/000834.html

It is clear from this link that Blag has been right on the nail about legal mechanism to quote from it

"Moreover, the outcome is
guaranteed to be messy, contested and to generate perhaps considerable
regional turbulence.
"
Later on it discusses exactly what is about to happen

"In case of a UN deadlock, the Kosovo government, perhaps with a green
light from London and Washington, might declare independence and seek
bilateral recognitions. A unilateral declaration of independence would
cause a diplomatic crisis and international splits, and must surely be
viewed as a nightmare scenario in Brussels"

Also please read the reasoning on delay

"The most plausible explanation for the delay is that Mr Ahtisaari has not
yet been able to garner sufficient support in the six-nation Contact Group
for his proposals and has thus not been able to fulfil a pledge that
Kosovo's status will be resolved before the end of 2006."

It is all there for all to see what is taking place - I suggest that the ethnic-Albanians realise that you are pawns just as much as Serbs - at least the Serbs accept that and are not willing.

Let the win-win soultion be found that is acceptable between the people it really matters to - all the peoples of Serbia.

Well that's cleared things up a bit ...'There can never be a partition scenario' ! Is schaffer implying that he is not partitioning Serbia or not partitioning Kosovo or do I misunderstand the meaning of partitioning.

fantatic link. wherever did you find it?

You all seem to forget that the KAlbanian resistance was the first domino that fell in the break-up of Yugoslavia.

Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil. Which can be more far-reaching than the hyped-up propagande offered by Serbs in their rebuttal of Ahtisaari's plan.

Just because the process is "messier" than initially thought doesn't mean that it won't be taken to it's end.

Thanks for the link Princip! The article basically confirms what you, Blag, Matthew, myself, and others have been saying for months now. Not that any of these predictions are rosy, but they're sobering nonetheless.

Independence must be granted to Kosovo in as far as it is in their power to do so or the KLA guns are going to be aimed at the NATO soldiers.As an American I do not want even ONE American boy or girl to die in Kosovo at the hands of the KLA.Enough Americans are being brought back in body bags from Afghanistan and Iraq.

Adem Jashari -You all seem to forget that the KAlbanian resistance was the first domino that fell in the break-up of Yugoslavia.

"Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil""


This is typical of the Albanian mentality, chuck a hissy fissy when you guys dont get your way.. Dont forget that NATO are in Kosovo to protect teh Albanians from the Serbs not teh other way around.. Lets put it this way, of NATO were to leave tomorrow, Kosovo would be overun militarily. Muderging Serb soldiers isnt as easy as murdering nuns.

The Albanians arenet capable of defending themselves, hence NATO in Kosovo..

The link doesnt take into account the power play between the big powers and it does mention deep differences. Its definately questionable that Russia putting a veto is out of friendship for serbia. Russia is demanding that it sets a precedent, whereas the west won’t allow it. Russia is after Georgia big time, and is determined Kosovo sets a precedent, but the big prize for Russia will be something else, like tito a croat gave serb land, krushchev a ukrainian gave the Russian land of the Crimea to Ukraine for a union of 150 years, predominanatly ethnic Russians live there and if Russia engineered a problem and the precedent was taken into account, Russia will than get the Grand prize of Sevastopol the port which is home to the black sea fleet. Albanians, I wouldnt celebrate just yet, theres a lot to play for. Nothing is guaranteed and a Russian veto is possible, hence a possible plan B.

"NATO chief Scheffer said the 26-nation alliance was strongly behind Ahtisaari's proposals and also backed his timetable for future action."
I wonder what Nato members like Greece, Poland, Spain, Slovakia etc would think of this sweeping statement by Scheffer

“Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil. (Adem Jashari, 16 February 2007, 18:56)”

If it came down to partition, I do not believe the Kosovars would resort to all out war. The Albanian areas would be safe forever, and I don’t think the common Albanian, who just wants to get on with their life is going to want to die for some patch of land that has no Albanians in it. I’m sure many will feel Serbs were not punished enough, but only the most extreme will resort to violence, and any violence on behalf any population at this time is going to seriously hurt any possibilities of other members of their ethnicity gaining independence in whatever region they live in. Do not forget your brethren in Presevo, surely some compromise with Serbia would be worth it to free them as well. Or Adem are you willing to give your life for Northern Kosovo AND bring horror and ruin down upon members of your own society who might not be willing to make that same sacrifice after already losing so much? Keep in mind, if the international community agreed to partition, you’d be fighting everyone and all you would do is make everyone miserable and set back economic progress by a generation. I personally feel the threat of violence and all out war is not a reason to grant independence. It really goes against Western standards of decency to attempt to return the region to that type of mindset. We need to move forward and change the attitudes on both sides of the divide if ever we are to move closer to Europe.

Russia - win-win
US - lose-lose.

Sui generis applicable.
Win - Russia will veto given that US will not allow reciprocal solution to anywhere it pleases. The US Keep up with Sui-generis -Russian VETO. US humiliation as it is faced with either recognising the ILLEGAL declaration of Southern Kosovo & Metohija - VERY MESSY - in which case Russia can do the same wherever it pleases or US face the people that they have falsley promised what was not theirs to promise - VERY MESSY.

Sui-gereris not applicable
WIN - Russia - will Accept if it is able to be applied in other areas. But China in this scenario will be forced to veto as this will be a direct attack on it via Taiwan. US humiliated at hands of China and Russia saves face! But still the US have to answer to those they made false promises to as again they face the same losing dilema.

The US have got themselves in a total bind and are blaming the EU for not doing enough to get the Serbs on board.

I think it's time for the leaders of Republika Srpska to stup and declare that if Kosovo is granted independence, they will unilaterally declare independence as well. Serb diplomats have to be smart here and fight fire with fire. This should be their next move in this political game of chess. In my opinion, this move would checkmate Ahtisari and his ship of fools.

All these useless talks only serve one purpose: the assumption of responsibility of a people to become a nation, and the realization of policies for the benefit of its citizens and their society.

In French, I would have said: la prise en charge de sa destinée!

These talks are to inform Nato of what plan B might be if plan A fails or what is the situation in diplomacy. If the albanians were to get their independance than why would ahthassari go b/c the albanians would not riot. It must be plan B and Nato must prepare itself to letting the albanians down.

These talks are because the attempt by politicians in the US and UK to prise Kosovo away from its legal sovereign state has run into inevitable problems. They naively believed that this could be signed sealed and delivered and now reality is starting to bite.
The repurcussions would be massive and NATO is clearly worried.

Yes plan B is on the cards and has been discussed since 30 Nov. 2006.

I suggest you all read this from the Econmic Intelligence Unit
and circulated within what seems the UN.

http://www.alb-net.com/pipermail/nyc-l/2006-November/000834.html

It is clear from this link that Blag has been right on the nail about legal mechanism to quote from it

"Moreover, the outcome is
guaranteed to be messy, contested and to generate perhaps considerable
regional turbulence.
"
Later on it discusses exactly what is about to happen

"In case of a UN deadlock, the Kosovo government, perhaps with a green
light from London and Washington, might declare independence and seek
bilateral recognitions. A unilateral declaration of independence would
cause a diplomatic crisis and international splits, and must surely be
viewed as a nightmare scenario in Brussels"

Also please read the reasoning on delay

"The most plausible explanation for the delay is that Mr Ahtisaari has not
yet been able to garner sufficient support in the six-nation Contact Group
for his proposals and has thus not been able to fulfil a pledge that
Kosovo's status will be resolved before the end of 2006."

It is all there for all to see what is taking place - I suggest that the ethnic-Albanians realise that you are pawns just as much as Serbs - at least the Serbs accept that and are not willing.

Let the win-win soultion be found that is acceptable between the people it really matters to - all the peoples of Serbia.

Well that's cleared things up a bit ...'There can never be a partition scenario' ! Is schaffer implying that he is not partitioning Serbia or not partitioning Kosovo or do I misunderstand the meaning of partitioning.

fantatic link. wherever did you find it?

You all seem to forget that the KAlbanian resistance was the first domino that fell in the break-up of Yugoslavia.

Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil. Which can be more far-reaching than the hyped-up propagande offered by Serbs in their rebuttal of Ahtisaari's plan.

Just because the process is "messier" than initially thought doesn't mean that it won't be taken to it's end.

Thanks for the link Princip! The article basically confirms what you, Blag, Matthew, myself, and others have been saying for months now. Not that any of these predictions are rosy, but they're sobering nonetheless.

Independence must be granted to Kosovo in as far as it is in their power to do so or the KLA guns are going to be aimed at the NATO soldiers.As an American I do not want even ONE American boy or girl to die in Kosovo at the hands of the KLA.Enough Americans are being brought back in body bags from Afghanistan and Iraq.

Adem Jashari -You all seem to forget that the KAlbanian resistance was the first domino that fell in the break-up of Yugoslavia.

"Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil""


This is typical of the Albanian mentality, chuck a hissy fissy when you guys dont get your way.. Dont forget that NATO are in Kosovo to protect teh Albanians from the Serbs not teh other way around.. Lets put it this way, of NATO were to leave tomorrow, Kosovo would be overun militarily. Muderging Serb soldiers isnt as easy as murdering nuns.

The Albanians arenet capable of defending themselves, hence NATO in Kosovo..

The link doesnt take into account the power play between the big powers and it does mention deep differences. Its definately questionable that Russia putting a veto is out of friendship for serbia. Russia is demanding that it sets a precedent, whereas the west won’t allow it. Russia is after Georgia big time, and is determined Kosovo sets a precedent, but the big prize for Russia will be something else, like tito a croat gave serb land, krushchev a ukrainian gave the Russian land of the Crimea to Ukraine for a union of 150 years, predominanatly ethnic Russians live there and if Russia engineered a problem and the precedent was taken into account, Russia will than get the Grand prize of Sevastopol the port which is home to the black sea fleet. Albanians, I wouldnt celebrate just yet, theres a lot to play for. Nothing is guaranteed and a Russian veto is possible, hence a possible plan B.

"NATO chief Scheffer said the 26-nation alliance was strongly behind Ahtisaari's proposals and also backed his timetable for future action."
I wonder what Nato members like Greece, Poland, Spain, Slovakia etc would think of this sweeping statement by Scheffer

“Suggesting that K-Albanians would merely riot in case of failing to realize our ultimate goal is a serious understatement. This is the last straw for the Albanian people, and everyone knows this. There is no other plausible solution, besides all out war and turmoil. (Adem Jashari, 16 February 2007, 18:56)”

If it came down to partition, I do not believe the Kosovars would resort to all out war. The Albanian areas would be safe forever, and I don’t think the common Albanian, who just wants to get on with their life is going to want to die for some patch of land that has no Albanians in it. I’m sure many will feel Serbs were not punished enough, but only the most extreme will resort to violence, and any violence on behalf any population at this time is going to seriously hurt any possibilities of other members of their ethnicity gaining independence in whatever region they live in. Do not forget your brethren in Presevo, surely some compromise with Serbia would be worth it to free them as well. Or Adem are you willing to give your life for Northern Kosovo AND bring horror and ruin down upon members of your own society who might not be willing to make that same sacrifice after already losing so much? Keep in mind, if the international community agreed to partition, you’d be fighting everyone and all you would do is make everyone miserable and set back economic progress by a generation. I personally feel the threat of violence and all out war is not a reason to grant independence. It really goes against Western standards of decency to attempt to return the region to that type of mindset. We need to move forward and change the attitudes on both sides of the divide if ever we are to move closer to Europe.

Russia - win-win
US - lose-lose.

Sui generis applicable.
Win - Russia will veto given that US will not allow reciprocal solution to anywhere it pleases. The US Keep up with Sui-generis -Russian VETO. US humiliation as it is faced with either recognising the ILLEGAL declaration of Southern Kosovo & Metohija - VERY MESSY - in which case Russia can do the same wherever it pleases or US face the people that they have falsley promised what was not theirs to promise - VERY MESSY.

Sui-gereris not applicable
WIN - Russia - will Accept if it is able to be applied in other areas. But China in this scenario will be forced to veto as this will be a direct attack on it via Taiwan. US humiliated at hands of China and Russia saves face! But still the US have to answer to those they made false promises to as again they face the same losing dilema.

The US have got themselves in a total bind and are blaming the EU for not doing enough to get the Serbs on board.

I think it's time for the leaders of Republika Srpska to stup and declare that if Kosovo is granted independence, they will unilaterally declare independence as well. Serb diplomats have to be smart here and fight fire with fire. This should be their next move in this political game of chess. In my opinion, this move would checkmate Ahtisari and his ship of fools.