Top Russian diplomat criticizes Ahtisaari plan

Anyway, who cares what a Russian diplomat thinks, one point he made was right though…there will not be any veto.
Avni Gjoni
Ferizaj

I'd say that this pretty much makes Plan A dead on arrival.

Any idea what Plan B will be?

And just where do you read that there will be no veto? Only in your fantasy world does this reality exist. Russia has been making very clear that it will not allow a resolution to pass that is not acceptable to all sides. So your castles in the air are crashing down when faced with reality.
Russia cannot allow Kosovo to become independent because this may endanger the integrity of Russia herself. China is also none too happy about the Kosove issue, as it could be used against it with Taiwan.
The "West" has maliciously been precluding real negotiations between Serbia and Kosovo by basically promising Kosovo independence regardless. So what was the incentive for Kosovo to negotiate in good faith. Negotiations imply compromise, what negotiations are we talking about if Kosovo says it'll only accept independence, egged on by its Western masters? However, the promise of Kosovo independence was not for the West to make. Other players also have a say, and the Russians are now making it very clear they will not allow this. Time to forget pipe dreams and get down to real negotiations with real compromises (Rule of thumb: A negotiation is successful when a compromise is reached with which *neither* side is truly happy with)

You are all putting too much hopes Russia, you are going to need special treatment after you all understand that Russian veto is just an illusion. Russia never supported Serbia, did they support you in the 1999, remember what happened then as soon as it tastes something nice they moved to the next table, and they left you alone for lunch. And it was a bitter lunch or wasn’t it??

Rule of thumb: think twice before you start killing your own citizens just because of their different ethnic background.
This applies to all people including us Albanians, that’s why we want a democratic, multicultural state of Kosovo, and we are the only one who can do that.
We have nothing against any Serb, we are against Serbian Regime.

In my opinion there are two ways:
1) let the Kosovars decide by organising a referendum on independence
2) go on with the de facto independence.
There is no way that Belgrade could rule Kosovo again.

Message to Avni, I would say that you must have your head buried in the sand. Russia is going to use its veto because it has to, not because it wants to. That is what the Russian diplomat was saying. Avni, for you not to understand this makes me question your ability to analyze anything you read.

Russia is like a spoilt puppy who wants attention. World is tiered of them. They should try to reduce poverty in their own country, and stop putting their nose where they are not supposed to. That’s all I have to say.

It is time to get real about the talks and truly obtain a negotiated settlement.

Win-win must be grasped now before everything gets very messey and paths are taken that one cannot return from.

Given that there is already talk of plan B in some circles and given that plan A-thisarri is continually being discredited again and again by Russia do the ethnic-Albanins not realise that they are being strung along by the US. The US cannot deliver on its promise in any certainty - that is the reason for the delay - Athisarri did not have to delay but did! Do you think he did this for Serbia's interest?

Let the reak talks begin and real negotiated settlement be found that does allow a real opportunity to reconcile differences rather then create and exagerate the diference.

Can't everyone see that the alternative to a win-win will be at best Status Quo at worst endless conflict and economic degression.

"Anyway, who cares what a Russian diplomat thinks" - who cares what anyone thinks if he doesn´t agree with you, right Avni?

Looks like Plan B i.e get the hell out of Kosovo god damn quick for Nato and the EU. Thats why many Nato troops have moved up north in preparation. NATO signed an agreement a couple of years ago with serbia should anything happen they can escape through serbia to Bosnia.

1912 was albanians own fault, they shouldnt have sided with the Turks in the balkan wars.

A Serbian diplomat in Belgrade said history showed it was unwise to rely very much on Russia’s fraternal Slavic solidarity.

“What we are doing now is for domestic use and is a political stunt, as no one has any evidence that Russia will use its veto,” he said. “Why didn’t they use it to stop the bombing [in 1999]?”

By Aleksandar Vasovic in Belgrade (Balkan Insight, 15 Feb)

- Have a good day!

the question should rather be:

" who cares what boys like avni think?"

massimo: didn´t you still get it yet? Serbia is offering broad autonomy, what means the Albanians in KiM will rule themselves, but, and that´s the striking detail: they do not need an own state for ruling themselves...

so, all they want is something different, but they are not honest to say it...

broad autonomy is what they will get, and not more.

Pejon, you gotta be joking with that question. It is clearly obvious to anyone who knows anything about Russia that Russia was not in any position to do anything in 1999. Their economy had been in chaos in the 1990s, and this chaos finally stopped in late 1998. There was nothing that the Russians could have done in 1999 that would have stopped the bombing.

Could somebody do me a favour and explain to me what this 'solution' is that is acceptable to both sides?

What Russia is saying makes no sense. There will never be a solution acceptable to both sides. Anything that doesn't lead to independence is not acceptable to albanians, and anything that leads to independence is not acceptable to serbia, thats a fact and it won't change even if the negotiantions go on for another 10 years. The solution will have to be imposed, and one side will lose.

I see that we have another 'win-win' comment from Prinicip! Man you need to get some new lines.

Mark

it was the albanian rebellion that weakend the turks before 1912, and then other balkan nations realised that they might have a chance and rebelled as well. just because albanians fought the serbs doesn't not mean that they were with turks. Albanians were fightin all oppressors and occupiers regardless of their nationality.

and anyway what the f**k difference does it make, what happened in 1912?

just to remind all of those lost in their wishful thinking...

it is a proposal, so don´t dream too much!

here you can take a look on that proposal, certainly the first time for most of you...

http://www.unosek.org/unosek/index.html

and that those who you call hero´s are simple criminals, isn´t doubted by anyone except the Albanians themselves.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,464291,00.html

furthermore the Albanians are just about to make their biggest mistake, much bigger than those silly teenagers did a few days ago by trying to mess with UNMIK...

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=14134

just one last link, unfortunately not in english, but stating how deep the K-albanian "leadership" is rooted in the worst kinds of crime, an article by the swiss newspaper " the weltwoche" giving the german BND as the source of that info.

http://www.weltwoche.ch/artikel/print.asp?AssetID=12373&CategoryID=73


so, dear albanian readers, you can´t trick anybody with allegations of racism, fanatism or believing in myths, since it is quite the opposite: it´s the Albanians who are the problem, and Europe is clearly realizing it. late, but not too late.

“Why didn’t they use it to stop the bombing [in 1999]?”

The US and Britain acted unilaterally, that's why.

It could'nt be clearer, Kosovo is Serbian. It is and always will be an integral part of Serbia. Serbia will always have a claim on Kosovo regardless of what anybody else thinks, says or does. As for compromise, partition may be an option. Alternatively, 3 million Serbs could pitch up tents in Kosovo during a referendum on Kosovos independence - just as democratic as claiming 2 million Albanians want Kosovo to be independent.

For stability and security in Europe there is no single country more important than Russia.To claim otherwise is simply nonsense.

hey wat, keep on dreaming.
britain and usa had a (financial) deal with yeltsin.
when boris sent primakow and the chairman of the biggest arms-factory to belgrade, he showed clinton that the deal was over. the agression stopped a few days later.
britain and us have a mountain of problems. both are clever enough not to make the mountain bigger. at the end of the day, both will know where their place is. but you are right, it will be up to them if they are going to learn it the hard or the easy way.

Wow, it's amazing to see all the comments that really don't say anything, but: Russia will veto or Russia won't veto... I have followed some discussions on this site, and I haven't really seen anyone saying what if: what if Kosova remained part of a federation with Serbia? that would mean about 30% of the population of the new country would be Albanian and given that this new country would be democratic then Albanians would be able to vote and elect their own representatives... Would Serbs be ready to have an Albanian PM? or President?
The other point is: The Kosova population is maybe the youngest in Europe, that's because of the birthrate, which would mean that in a near future the population of this Serbia-KOsova federation would probably become majority Albanian, what would that mean for the Serbs?
Not that that scenario will happen, but just wanted to see what some "experts" here have to say about that. Personally I don't think that it is possible and it isn't in Serbia's interest to hold on to Kosova. Be realistic, how can Serbia force 2million people to remain part of Serbia after all that has happened? It is much better to be friends and Divorced than be married and hate each other. What good comes out of that?

Kujtim,

the population argument is a non-starter. Look into economic development and realise that a very natural trend is that as areas develop then there is a tendency for the population growth drops. This is due in large part to the empowerment and equality of women who become just as economically active and there thn becomes an incentive to have fewer children. There is also the important issue of ensuring the integrity of rights to Serbian citizenship too - Don't jump on this - but the region has seen a great deal of fluidity and this must be addressed in some extent to ensure no conflict occurs in years to come.

That said as far feteched as it might seem but in a real democratic society it realy should not matter on one's ethnicity if that person really is concerned with providing the best leadership for his/her nation. 2 examples for you;

US - Governor Arnold (California) cannot become president because he was not born in the US but his kids could.

France - President possible Sarkozy (full surname - Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa) is a French born citizen of Hungarian descent. No-one questions his "Frenchness" and on the contrary he is probably more patriotic then the average French perspective.

If a Serbian citizen of any ethnic background was worthy of being the Serbian President why not that is after all the reality of democracy!!!

I hope this answers your question. I know that there will be Serbs who would think this an anathema but equally I can respect their view and I would be more then happy for the debate and opportunity to calm their fears. Being the grandson of a patriotic seljak who fought in the 2nd world war in the Dinarska Divizija if I can accept that future then what do you think of the Serbs who were only too happy to Idolise Tito.

Princip

Your economical argument against the population birth rate is a non-starter.

Serbs in kosova economically are no better of than albanians and they still have only one child or two. whereas albanians poor or rich have minimum three and probably more. It a cultural thing not just economical.

And Kujtim made a very good point. What if kosova was to remain as part of serbia? How would this function?

All serbs keep saying that kosovo should remain part of serbia, and how they would offer autonomy, but I still have to see a detailed proposal from the serbs that would work.

Lets say if kosovo was to remain part of serbia, and albanians asked in return to have double majority (like K. serbs) in parliament because they would be a minority in serbia for the next 10 years... the serbs would never be able to pass a law without albanian appoval.Now, if Koshtunica is confident that he will be able to agree with our albanian politicians , then ok, offer autonomy. If serbia is serious about being democratic and the autonomy then they would have to change the flag, anthem and national symbols, to reflect the multi-ethniciy of serbia. Do you really want an albanian symbol on your flag?

like i said i still haven't seen a serious and thoughtout autonomy proposal from the serbs. one reason is because the serb politicians know that kosovo will become independent, and they know that autonomy would never function.

I just think i long term autonomy for kosovo in democratic serbia would be much worse for serbia.

Serbs want kosovo without the albanian population.

The only flag that would be used is the one thats always been used, the SERBIAN flag. Since Kosovo is a part of Serbia, there is no need to change it. DEAL WITH IT! If you were born in Serbia (that includes Kocobo) then you are SERBIAN! ACCEPT IT!!!

kreshnik has a point.

i think the albanians should call BG's bluff (non-binding of course) and say... OK, what do we get to stay? How many parliament seats? can we immigrate to serbia to find jobs? etc?

what do you think BG would say?

@kujtim and kreshnik:

don´t worry, that´ll be solved. you should rather think of how to improve the climate within the K-albanian society.

for instance those kanun-rules, that are a real handicape for the Albanians themselves...

that´s something you should think of...

to kreshnik sh:

would you please finally stop spreading your hate-speech???

"Serbs want Kosovo without the albanian population"

Serbia is offering them broad autonomy, are you deaf and blind???

Jovan

Yes the word 'autonomy'. Like i said I have not seen a detailed proposal that would work. Not that albanians would accept it anyway. but if they are serious than they should propose something rather than just a word.

Obilic -

hahahah, you really scared me you know, those BLOCK letters are so powerful! YOu just confirmed the point i was making.

Even if some democratic serbs in these posts genuinely belive that autonomy for kosovo would work and serbs and albanians could live together, you are forgeting that 28% of serbs voted for Radicals whose leader is in Hague for crimes and massacres commited in Kosovo, and another 17% voted for nationalist like Koshtunica. The policies of these parties towards albanians are well know. Can anyone with just a little bit of common sense, think that albanians will accept autonomy, or that it would work even if it was forced on them.


to Jovan

"to kreshnik sh:

would you please finally stop spreading your hate-speech???

"Serbs want Kosovo without the albanian population"

Serbia is offering them broad autonomy, are you deaf and blind???"

is autonomy something like Obilic's comment "The only flag that would be used is the one thats always been used, the SERBIAN flag. Since Kosovo is a part of Serbia, there is no need to change it. DEAL WITH IT! If you were born in Serbia (that includes Kocobo) then you are SERBIAN! ACCEPT IT!!!
(Obilic, 16 February 2007, 17:40)"

You Serbs keep hoping that Rusia will use its veto power....So what? The moment Rusia uses it veto power, USA will recognise Kosovo's indipendece followed by UK then Albania and EU...who cares whether Rusia, Greece, or Slovakia recognise our independece or not.
If your polticians were smart enough, they would have not revoked Kosovo's anatomy at first...
Same thing now...if they are smart they would accept the plan proposed by Ahtisaari before it's too late

Cheers Komshia lol

to kreshnik:

the question of a flag is a completely different one, from the "independence"-question.
speaking about symbols is a question that in my personal view is not really important, since this would only be a kind of "make-up" to satisfy rather childish machismo-emotions ( remember most k-albanians are young twens, or even teenies ) so, that is really not a question of importance, and therefore can certainly be discussed after solving the main issue.

I think you should not concentrate on flags, symbols etc. because you cannot eat flags...

to Nick:

that´s quite the point, you are refusing to realize, that the EU won´t start it´s commitment in KiM on the basis of a legal dispute and on discordance of it´s own union-members.
you simply must accept the fact, that KiM or in other words the Albanians and their dream of independence is not that important for them to endanger the long nourished picture of a united european community.
I really ask you to think about that.
and what the US are doing is not a binding decision for other nations, believing this you would simply be wrong.

you are relying on the american unilateral help. do you really believe they do not have more important problems than to start a messy problem only to satisfy 1.8 million k-albanians.

the question I´d like you to think of is:
what is more likely, that Russia is not gonna veto, like Mr. Rucker said ( he seems to know more than all others ) when it is just starting to flex it´s newly earned muscles,
or,
the Americans provoking a situation that bears a lot of problems within, starting with the own admission of not being capable to solve international problems within international institutions,
and provoking a situation of division within the EU,
and last but not least to bring up old grudges with Russia, that is badly needed at other, really important hot-spots like Iraq/Iran or north Korea?

I let it to you to think that over.

once again I repeat it:
Serbia does not want only the land without the poeple. whoever says that, is just ignoring the facts and simply living in illusion.

Jovan

Maybe you don't want the land without the people, but i'm sure all those who voted for Radicals do.

to kreshnik:

those who gave their vote to the radicals are just sick of being accused for all and everythin all the time. they are simple protesters, but merely political.

and the radicals themselves know very well, that they cannot prolong the mistakes of the past in regard to the Albanians. even the radicals support the broad autonomy, since they have understood that this is the only solution possible.

the only thing that lacks, is the Albanians letting go that exremist demand that cannot be fulfilled.

but I am convinced, the moderate and sound Albanians will prevail.

those who are telling you that you have to fear Serbs or Serbia, are just those who profit of the current situation.

those cowards even don´t hesitate to kill their fellow-Albanians.
do you believe that this key-witness died accidentally in a "car crash" yesterday...?

I don´t.

Jovan

"but I am convinced, the moderate and sound Albanians will prevail. " If you genuinely believe that, that you are living in dreamland.

I am quite a moderate albanian,( if I can be the judge of that), but i will never accept any serbian sovreginty over Kosovo. Never.

kreshnik,

you will have the possibility to choose to live within Serbia or ( if you really mean to "never" accept serbian sovereignty over KiM ) to look for your personal future anywhere else.

but I call you to stay and help building up a better future for all serbian citizens, no matter of what ethnicity.

THAT is a moderate approach.

Anyway, who cares what a Russian diplomat thinks, one point he made was right though…there will not be any veto.
Avni Gjoni
Ferizaj

I'd say that this pretty much makes Plan A dead on arrival.

Any idea what Plan B will be?

And just where do you read that there will be no veto? Only in your fantasy world does this reality exist. Russia has been making very clear that it will not allow a resolution to pass that is not acceptable to all sides. So your castles in the air are crashing down when faced with reality.
Russia cannot allow Kosovo to become independent because this may endanger the integrity of Russia herself. China is also none too happy about the Kosove issue, as it could be used against it with Taiwan.
The "West" has maliciously been precluding real negotiations between Serbia and Kosovo by basically promising Kosovo independence regardless. So what was the incentive for Kosovo to negotiate in good faith. Negotiations imply compromise, what negotiations are we talking about if Kosovo says it'll only accept independence, egged on by its Western masters? However, the promise of Kosovo independence was not for the West to make. Other players also have a say, and the Russians are now making it very clear they will not allow this. Time to forget pipe dreams and get down to real negotiations with real compromises (Rule of thumb: A negotiation is successful when a compromise is reached with which *neither* side is truly happy with)

You are all putting too much hopes Russia, you are going to need special treatment after you all understand that Russian veto is just an illusion. Russia never supported Serbia, did they support you in the 1999, remember what happened then as soon as it tastes something nice they moved to the next table, and they left you alone for lunch. And it was a bitter lunch or wasn’t it??

Rule of thumb: think twice before you start killing your own citizens just because of their different ethnic background.
This applies to all people including us Albanians, that’s why we want a democratic, multicultural state of Kosovo, and we are the only one who can do that.
We have nothing against any Serb, we are against Serbian Regime.

In my opinion there are two ways:
1) let the Kosovars decide by organising a referendum on independence
2) go on with the de facto independence.
There is no way that Belgrade could rule Kosovo again.

Message to Avni, I would say that you must have your head buried in the sand. Russia is going to use its veto because it has to, not because it wants to. That is what the Russian diplomat was saying. Avni, for you not to understand this makes me question your ability to analyze anything you read.

Russia is like a spoilt puppy who wants attention. World is tiered of them. They should try to reduce poverty in their own country, and stop putting their nose where they are not supposed to. That’s all I have to say.

It is time to get real about the talks and truly obtain a negotiated settlement.

Win-win must be grasped now before everything gets very messey and paths are taken that one cannot return from.

Given that there is already talk of plan B in some circles and given that plan A-thisarri is continually being discredited again and again by Russia do the ethnic-Albanins not realise that they are being strung along by the US. The US cannot deliver on its promise in any certainty - that is the reason for the delay - Athisarri did not have to delay but did! Do you think he did this for Serbia's interest?

Let the reak talks begin and real negotiated settlement be found that does allow a real opportunity to reconcile differences rather then create and exagerate the diference.

Can't everyone see that the alternative to a win-win will be at best Status Quo at worst endless conflict and economic degression.

"Anyway, who cares what a Russian diplomat thinks" - who cares what anyone thinks if he doesn´t agree with you, right Avni?

Looks like Plan B i.e get the hell out of Kosovo god damn quick for Nato and the EU. Thats why many Nato troops have moved up north in preparation. NATO signed an agreement a couple of years ago with serbia should anything happen they can escape through serbia to Bosnia.

1912 was albanians own fault, they shouldnt have sided with the Turks in the balkan wars.

A Serbian diplomat in Belgrade said history showed it was unwise to rely very much on Russia’s fraternal Slavic solidarity.

“What we are doing now is for domestic use and is a political stunt, as no one has any evidence that Russia will use its veto,” he said. “Why didn’t they use it to stop the bombing [in 1999]?”

By Aleksandar Vasovic in Belgrade (Balkan Insight, 15 Feb)

- Have a good day!

the question should rather be:

" who cares what boys like avni think?"

massimo: didn´t you still get it yet? Serbia is offering broad autonomy, what means the Albanians in KiM will rule themselves, but, and that´s the striking detail: they do not need an own state for ruling themselves...

so, all they want is something different, but they are not honest to say it...

broad autonomy is what they will get, and not more.

Pejon, you gotta be joking with that question. It is clearly obvious to anyone who knows anything about Russia that Russia was not in any position to do anything in 1999. Their economy had been in chaos in the 1990s, and this chaos finally stopped in late 1998. There was nothing that the Russians could have done in 1999 that would have stopped the bombing.

Could somebody do me a favour and explain to me what this 'solution' is that is acceptable to both sides?

What Russia is saying makes no sense. There will never be a solution acceptable to both sides. Anything that doesn't lead to independence is not acceptable to albanians, and anything that leads to independence is not acceptable to serbia, thats a fact and it won't change even if the negotiantions go on for another 10 years. The solution will have to be imposed, and one side will lose.

I see that we have another 'win-win' comment from Prinicip! Man you need to get some new lines.

Mark

it was the albanian rebellion that weakend the turks before 1912, and then other balkan nations realised that they might have a chance and rebelled as well. just because albanians fought the serbs doesn't not mean that they were with turks. Albanians were fightin all oppressors and occupiers regardless of their nationality.

and anyway what the f**k difference does it make, what happened in 1912?

just to remind all of those lost in their wishful thinking...

it is a proposal, so don´t dream too much!

here you can take a look on that proposal, certainly the first time for most of you...

http://www.unosek.org/unosek/index.html

and that those who you call hero´s are simple criminals, isn´t doubted by anyone except the Albanians themselves.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,464291,00.html

furthermore the Albanians are just about to make their biggest mistake, much bigger than those silly teenagers did a few days ago by trying to mess with UNMIK...

http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=article&articleid=14134

just one last link, unfortunately not in english, but stating how deep the K-albanian "leadership" is rooted in the worst kinds of crime, an article by the swiss newspaper " the weltwoche" giving the german BND as the source of that info.

http://www.weltwoche.ch/artikel/print.asp?AssetID=12373&CategoryID=73


so, dear albanian readers, you can´t trick anybody with allegations of racism, fanatism or believing in myths, since it is quite the opposite: it´s the Albanians who are the problem, and Europe is clearly realizing it. late, but not too late.

“Why didn’t they use it to stop the bombing [in 1999]?”

The US and Britain acted unilaterally, that's why.

It could'nt be clearer, Kosovo is Serbian. It is and always will be an integral part of Serbia. Serbia will always have a claim on Kosovo regardless of what anybody else thinks, says or does. As for compromise, partition may be an option. Alternatively, 3 million Serbs could pitch up tents in Kosovo during a referendum on Kosovos independence - just as democratic as claiming 2 million Albanians want Kosovo to be independent.

For stability and security in Europe there is no single country more important than Russia.To claim otherwise is simply nonsense.

hey wat, keep on dreaming.
britain and usa had a (financial) deal with yeltsin.
when boris sent primakow and the chairman of the biggest arms-factory to belgrade, he showed clinton that the deal was over. the agression stopped a few days later.
britain and us have a mountain of problems. both are clever enough not to make the mountain bigger. at the end of the day, both will know where their place is. but you are right, it will be up to them if they are going to learn it the hard or the easy way.

Wow, it's amazing to see all the comments that really don't say anything, but: Russia will veto or Russia won't veto... I have followed some discussions on this site, and I haven't really seen anyone saying what if: what if Kosova remained part of a federation with Serbia? that would mean about 30% of the population of the new country would be Albanian and given that this new country would be democratic then Albanians would be able to vote and elect their own representatives... Would Serbs be ready to have an Albanian PM? or President?
The other point is: The Kosova population is maybe the youngest in Europe, that's because of the birthrate, which would mean that in a near future the population of this Serbia-KOsova federation would probably become majority Albanian, what would that mean for the Serbs?
Not that that scenario will happen, but just wanted to see what some "experts" here have to say about that. Personally I don't think that it is possible and it isn't in Serbia's interest to hold on to Kosova. Be realistic, how can Serbia force 2million people to remain part of Serbia after all that has happened? It is much better to be friends and Divorced than be married and hate each other. What good comes out of that?

Kujtim,

the population argument is a non-starter. Look into economic development and realise that a very natural trend is that as areas develop then there is a tendency for the population growth drops. This is due in large part to the empowerment and equality of women who become just as economically active and there thn becomes an incentive to have fewer children. There is also the important issue of ensuring the integrity of rights to Serbian citizenship too - Don't jump on this - but the region has seen a great deal of fluidity and this must be addressed in some extent to ensure no conflict occurs in years to come.

That said as far feteched as it might seem but in a real democratic society it realy should not matter on one's ethnicity if that person really is concerned with providing the best leadership for his/her nation. 2 examples for you;

US - Governor Arnold (California) cannot become president because he was not born in the US but his kids could.

France - President possible Sarkozy (full surname - Sarközy de Nagy-Bocsa) is a French born citizen of Hungarian descent. No-one questions his "Frenchness" and on the contrary he is probably more patriotic then the average French perspective.

If a Serbian citizen of any ethnic background was worthy of being the Serbian President why not that is after all the reality of democracy!!!

I hope this answers your question. I know that there will be Serbs who would think this an anathema but equally I can respect their view and I would be more then happy for the debate and opportunity to calm their fears. Being the grandson of a patriotic seljak who fought in the 2nd world war in the Dinarska Divizija if I can accept that future then what do you think of the Serbs who were only too happy to Idolise Tito.

Princip

Your economical argument against the population birth rate is a non-starter.

Serbs in kosova economically are no better of than albanians and they still have only one child or two. whereas albanians poor or rich have minimum three and probably more. It a cultural thing not just economical.

And Kujtim made a very good point. What if kosova was to remain as part of serbia? How would this function?

All serbs keep saying that kosovo should remain part of serbia, and how they would offer autonomy, but I still have to see a detailed proposal from the serbs that would work.

Lets say if kosovo was to remain part of serbia, and albanians asked in return to have double majority (like K. serbs) in parliament because they would be a minority in serbia for the next 10 years... the serbs would never be able to pass a law without albanian appoval.Now, if Koshtunica is confident that he will be able to agree with our albanian politicians , then ok, offer autonomy. If serbia is serious about being democratic and the autonomy then they would have to change the flag, anthem and national symbols, to reflect the multi-ethniciy of serbia. Do you really want an albanian symbol on your flag?

like i said i still haven't seen a serious and thoughtout autonomy proposal from the serbs. one reason is because the serb politicians know that kosovo will become independent, and they know that autonomy would never function.

I just think i long term autonomy for kosovo in democratic serbia would be much worse for serbia.

Serbs want kosovo without the albanian population.

The only flag that would be used is the one thats always been used, the SERBIAN flag. Since Kosovo is a part of Serbia, there is no need to change it. DEAL WITH IT! If you were born in Serbia (that includes Kocobo) then you are SERBIAN! ACCEPT IT!!!

kreshnik has a point.

i think the albanians should call BG's bluff (non-binding of course) and say... OK, what do we get to stay? How many parliament seats? can we immigrate to serbia to find jobs? etc?

what do you think BG would say?

@kujtim and kreshnik:

don´t worry, that´ll be solved. you should rather think of how to improve the climate within the K-albanian society.

for instance those kanun-rules, that are a real handicape for the Albanians themselves...

that´s something you should think of...

to kreshnik sh:

would you please finally stop spreading your hate-speech???

"Serbs want Kosovo without the albanian population"

Serbia is offering them broad autonomy, are you deaf and blind???

Jovan

Yes the word 'autonomy'. Like i said I have not seen a detailed proposal that would work. Not that albanians would accept it anyway. but if they are serious than they should propose something rather than just a word.

Obilic -

hahahah, you really scared me you know, those BLOCK letters are so powerful! YOu just confirmed the point i was making.

Even if some democratic serbs in these posts genuinely belive that autonomy for kosovo would work and serbs and albanians could live together, you are forgeting that 28% of serbs voted for Radicals whose leader is in Hague for crimes and massacres commited in Kosovo, and another 17% voted for nationalist like Koshtunica. The policies of these parties towards albanians are well know. Can anyone with just a little bit of common sense, think that albanians will accept autonomy, or that it would work even if it was forced on them.


to Jovan

"to kreshnik sh:

would you please finally stop spreading your hate-speech???

"Serbs want Kosovo without the albanian population"

Serbia is offering them broad autonomy, are you deaf and blind???"

is autonomy something like Obilic's comment "The only flag that would be used is the one thats always been used, the SERBIAN flag. Since Kosovo is a part of Serbia, there is no need to change it. DEAL WITH IT! If you were born in Serbia (that includes Kocobo) then you are SERBIAN! ACCEPT IT!!!
(Obilic, 16 February 2007, 17:40)"

You Serbs keep hoping that Rusia will use its veto power....So what? The moment Rusia uses it veto power, USA will recognise Kosovo's indipendece followed by UK then Albania and EU...who cares whether Rusia, Greece, or Slovakia recognise our independece or not.
If your polticians were smart enough, they would have not revoked Kosovo's anatomy at first...
Same thing now...if they are smart they would accept the plan proposed by Ahtisaari before it's too late

Cheers Komshia lol

to kreshnik:

the question of a flag is a completely different one, from the "independence"-question.
speaking about symbols is a question that in my personal view is not really important, since this would only be a kind of "make-up" to satisfy rather childish machismo-emotions ( remember most k-albanians are young twens, or even teenies ) so, that is really not a question of importance, and therefore can certainly be discussed after solving the main issue.

I think you should not concentrate on flags, symbols etc. because you cannot eat flags...

to Nick:

that´s quite the point, you are refusing to realize, that the EU won´t start it´s commitment in KiM on the basis of a legal dispute and on discordance of it´s own union-members.
you simply must accept the fact, that KiM or in other words the Albanians and their dream of independence is not that important for them to endanger the long nourished picture of a united european community.
I really ask you to think about that.
and what the US are doing is not a binding decision for other nations, believing this you would simply be wrong.

you are relying on the american unilateral help. do you really believe they do not have more important problems than to start a messy problem only to satisfy 1.8 million k-albanians.

the question I´d like you to think of is:
what is more likely, that Russia is not gonna veto, like Mr. Rucker said ( he seems to know more than all others ) when it is just starting to flex it´s newly earned muscles,
or,
the Americans provoking a situation that bears a lot of problems within, starting with the own admission of not being capable to solve international problems within international institutions,
and provoking a situation of division within the EU,
and last but not least to bring up old grudges with Russia, that is badly needed at other, really important hot-spots like Iraq/Iran or north Korea?

I let it to you to think that over.

once again I repeat it:
Serbia does not want only the land without the poeple. whoever says that, is just ignoring the facts and simply living in illusion.

Jovan

Maybe you don't want the land without the people, but i'm sure all those who voted for Radicals do.

to kreshnik:

those who gave their vote to the radicals are just sick of being accused for all and everythin all the time. they are simple protesters, but merely political.

and the radicals themselves know very well, that they cannot prolong the mistakes of the past in regard to the Albanians. even the radicals support the broad autonomy, since they have understood that this is the only solution possible.

the only thing that lacks, is the Albanians letting go that exremist demand that cannot be fulfilled.

but I am convinced, the moderate and sound Albanians will prevail.

those who are telling you that you have to fear Serbs or Serbia, are just those who profit of the current situation.

those cowards even don´t hesitate to kill their fellow-Albanians.
do you believe that this key-witness died accidentally in a "car crash" yesterday...?

I don´t.

Jovan

"but I am convinced, the moderate and sound Albanians will prevail. " If you genuinely believe that, that you are living in dreamland.

I am quite a moderate albanian,( if I can be the judge of that), but i will never accept any serbian sovreginty over Kosovo. Never.

kreshnik,

you will have the possibility to choose to live within Serbia or ( if you really mean to "never" accept serbian sovereignty over KiM ) to look for your personal future anywhere else.

but I call you to stay and help building up a better future for all serbian citizens, no matter of what ethnicity.

THAT is a moderate approach.