“Two ways towards independence”

i think he is wrong! first: there won´t pass any resolution that is changeing the spirit of 1244. bilateral recognition would have to break un-resolutions AND would cost a political price (half of georgia or ex-bosnia
or azerbaijan, or ukraine a atomic power).
second: future status is a negotiation thing between moscow and washington, eu doesn´t have a say. due to the fact eu is divided, there is practically no way of bilateral acknowledgement from that corner.

so diplomatic focus yes, but on washington and moscow, and not on eu-states.

there will be clear and predicatbale consequnces to an action like this: they include north mitrovica decalring independence from independence; prolonged legal obstacles from BG that are intened to scare off potential investor's; diplomatic and economic isolation from BG; end-game in bosnia for republika srpska.

if you think that BG will not resort to the above... you are kidding yourself. i have not seen or heard of any such plans... but it seems fairly obvious what will take place. these things wouyld be catastrophic for K.

One way or another Kosovo /a will gain independence. This is a reiteration of my previous statements. It’s good to see that even the Serbian diplomats have come to accept this fact.

Blag I am sure that you are sceptical of your own claims. The intentions of K-Serbs to declare northern Kosovo as independent will have The domino effect. ( i.e Preshevo valley, West Macedonia, Montenegro, Sandjak, Republika Srpska, etc etc) the US and EU simply won’t allow that to happen. Russia’s position is clear on this, no support no veto (Abstention)

I am certain that BG is in no position to threat anyone in the region and let alone the foreign investors. BG stance would only worry foreigners to make further and/or new investments in Serbia and Serbian enclaves in Kosovo. This of course will ruin Serbia’s already weak economy.

Saying goes, people always look towards where they want to be…

Raso, you comment about ex-Bosnia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine. Breaking resolutions and so on… is a bit like my saying above.

1244 is made for Kosovo Situation only… and if any of the countries in the world is in the similar position like Kosovo, meaning, with the UN presence, with NATO presence, with Bitter past like the Albanians, with the stubborn opponent like Serbia’s negotiation team, and with the will of the most of Europeans to recognize the independence…
Then I believe that country will have the right for self determination and bilateral recognition of the state from the other UNSC countries.
There is no domino effect as you are stating it there.
And I tell you one thing; Russia will be one of the countries to recognize the independence of Kosovo, and Serbia too.

By the way blag,
What you’re saying is just a story that people use to tell kids before they go to sleep.

You get the point???

Noel:

I will go as far as to say that "something will change."

I don't know what diplomats you speak of when you say S diplomats see that K will be indep? Who are those diplomats?

As for the Mitrovica Serbs it seems to me like "they are already independent" and "have been so for 7 yrs." They have "no connection to Pristina" whatsoever. Call that what you want, but it sounds like independent to me. I'd like to see Pristina "integrate" them without causing mass unrest/ exodus. To think otherwise is naive. The quotes wer eplaced by me to bring attention to the same words that Pristina states to BG (we have been indep for 7 yrs; we have nothing to do with you, etc).

A domino effect is already happening in Bosnia at this very moment. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/17466

A Domino effect in Serbia is unlikely b/c those communities are too fractious/ weak to make it happen. Ditto for Montenegro who could easily squash a movement if t sprouted.

The domino effect in Macedonia has been happening for 15 years and is nothing new. We all know it's a ticking time bomb.

I doubt highly that the Russian PM, the Russian FM, and the Russian Defense Secretary themsleves all made 3 homogenous statements in 3 different places of the world this weekend if they weren't serious about picking a fight at the UNSC. And then to have the Russian PM call Tadic on Statehood Day?! I mean, what further confirmation do you need? They are practically telegraphing to the world what they are going to do. The tone in the NY Times the past 3 days confirms this.

Do you not find it notable that not a single word out of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleeze Rice. Do you not find that odd or even ominous? By the way, has the American representative to the UN even been confirmed by the Congress yet?

As for BG threatening the region/ foreign investors. Investors fear one thing more than lost profits and that is legal entanglements. And there will be no such reciprocal effect on new investments in Serbia. Money is being made. Right Here. Right Now. Every Day.

Serbia's economy is not weak. You are terribly misinformed. Serbia's economy is "on-fire" and it is "red-hot." It grew 6.9% last yr (after growing 9.3% the prior yr). It is slotted to grow 8% this yr. Last yr it brought in $4.5B in FDI and 2007 is the yr of the really big privatizations. Serbia is the preferred distribution center for the entire CEFTA region of 60M consumers. It spopulation is highly educated and 42% speak English while all others speak other langauges. It is the last untapped market of significant size in Europe while also offering an excellent infrastructure to distribute to the region. It is quite simply becoming corporate headquarters for the CEFTA region.

three days ago i posted a challenge here http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39605

i challenged all serbs on this site to acknowledge the terible and inhumane crimes committed in our name to the albanina population of kosovo (without asking for a reciprocal statement from the other side).

i am sad to say that only matthew has done so (and always has).

TO SERBS ON THIS SITE:
do you really think a veto in the UNSC will bring peace? it won't. it will only put off the problem and make it worse. serbs may get a reprieve at the UNSC but what will BG do next? it has no plan for solving this crisis. the first step is to acknowledge he crimes commited in your name and there were many).

Blag,

yes I do agree and truly believe that when a Serb has commited the crimes that many of us are only aware have been done falsely in the name of Serbdom then that person must be held account - in fact If it was I who had been responsible in some manner that I would have surrendered without hesitation - I can recall posting something very similar before regarding Mladic. I do not have any hesitation in agreeing with you or Matthew on this score - we all want a balanced view of the realities of tragic events and realise that only then can real reconciliation begin. Win-win is possible only with the truth of events being aired and that starts by being brave enough to face your wron doings.

My apology Blag for not spotting the earlier request but I will point out what has often been told to you by the likes of Kreshnick - you write too much (so do I) and sometimes I have to say I do skim your posts. I do hope this gets posted but I have noticed a certain deal of extra moderation recently.

good point princip. i will make my posts half as long henceforth. thanks!

Blag, you have some interesting observation on possible future developments. However, you and I can only agree to differ. As per Serbian confession in relation to the crimes they’ve committed I say Better Late Than Never.

Looks like you’ve learned how to make a LINK I still can’t ;-(, However, the link below will give you some insight ( although I’ve no doubt you’re well informed)of the current economical progress in Serbia, which in my view is still weak.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36149

I’ve been very reluctant recently whether to continue posting my comments in here or not. Mainly was put off by the immaturity of some commentators. I too, wish that there was a separate forum where we could discus issues on the subject of International relations & Economics. Personally I’m hopping to get a place at The LSE IR subject this year, of course as a mature student ;-(. I also speak Srbski and Albanian. I have been numerous times in Serbia ,Montenegro , Macedonia, Kosovo/a and Albania, my recent visit to the Balkans was last august. I scrutinise the situation in Serbia, Kosovo and Albania day in,day out.

I passionately believe that Kosovo / a must become internationally recognised as an independent state ASAP. As the only way towards lasting peace, prosperity and stability in the Balkans.

A CEFTA market of 30m is peanuts compared to a EU market of 490m.No connection should be made by anybody between economics which improves the livelihood of all with political issues.5(Moldova,Bosnia,Macedonia,Serbia,Montenegro) of the 7 CEFTA countries have separatist issues but Cyprus has proven that economics can move ahead of political considerations.

Noel,

"passionately believe that Kosovo / a must become internationally recognised as an independent state ASAP. As the only way towards lasting peace, prosperity and stability in the Balkans"

But surely the best way forward is not to create new walls but to pull them down? This is the contradiction of independence that Serbs have an issue with. By creating this wall, economic, social and political energy will be re-directed from creating a better future from all - net result all lose. Blag has set out the knock-on effects and I have to agree with him that this is exactly how things will pan out.

Serbs from the diaspora are a patriotic bunch but are also a bridge of understanding between West and East - our hearts have the passion but our brains have the rationale - so we understand the fears that drive certain events but have the thought to try and discuss the alternatives.

Win-win is something that should always have been the objective of the discussions over the last year. Much of that should have been about creating the right environment for building truth, trust and reconciliation. Only together - all the peoples of the Sovereign state of Serbia - can real economic progress and lasting resolution to the issue of Kosovo & Metohija be created.

I do hope that the negotiation team that Serbia sends can go on Wednesday to Vienna and suggest to the Albanian negotiating team to ignore Athisarri and go into a room by themselves and really thrash out (peacefully of course) the best way forward together and not carry on with this charade that has been imposed upon them both.

I think the talks have started from the wrong basis and I have to questions the true integrity of the term of "negotiations" that were labelled to them. Athisarri has always had the opinion that no soultion could ever be found - clearly that is a reflection on him and should not be a reflection of what is the best way forward.

Good luck with your application to LSE and carry on posting - it's good to talk even if at times we might be all too passionate.

Noel
Good luck with your Application and the new challenges at the LSE.

Princip,

Comparing blags and your statements, i must say that i am slowly starting to appreciate blags honesty and understanding of the problem. He advocates a destructive approach on the part of Belgrade (what he calls "belligerance") to achieve a political goal, which although totally unnaceptable and flawed in many ways still makes more sense then your dreamworld of compromises and win-wins.

To an autside observes your ideas about a win-win solution might sound quite appropriate. Good concieved terms tend to have quite an impact on the way people percieve a problem, but your must understand that we (albanians and serbs) have lived with each other for many centuries and know each other rather well. You may very well sell your win-win to people and countries who neither know nor care about Kosovo, but please keep your propaganda out of the Ballkans.

Regarding the negotiations, i wont even get into that, because i believe the k albanian posters have explained more than once the reasons why the negotiations are a complete waste of time.

Nick,

my "dreamworld of compromises and win-wins"
is the world of how all peoples can & do develop in peace and respect of each other - something as a Brit of Serbian heritage is only too aware can and needs to be striven for - they are not dreams in the EU. This is something that the West developed by - it is the basis of the EU!

"You may very well sell your win-win to people and countries who neither know nor care about Kosovo, but please keep your propaganda out of the Ballkans"

- this is not my propaganda it is the very basis upon which the EU continues and if I am not right are the technocrats who will become the custodians of a final solution for Kosovo & Metohija that Sediju and Ceku are very happy with.

Maybe you need to ask if the ways of before that you suggest are the reasons that Kosovo & Metohija is still stuck in the 19th Century economically, politically and socially.

Blag does not suggest that the way forward is beligerance - I would believe that he is only stating what the path of independence will lead to. Please put me right Blag as I am sure you will.

I understand his message as the likely scenario of independence and wish to suggest hope that all the peoples of Serbia can come together to a better a path then that which is about to be taken. Win-win is not an easy path for Serbs or Albanians but new walls won't help. Building a new truth, trust and reconciliation is the only way a lasting solution will come about.

Do you not wish to have the best future possible for all or do you prefer the Status Quo?

"I understand his message as the likely scenario of independence and wish to suggest hope that all the peoples of Serbia can come together to a better a path then that which is about to be taken."

Except that we do not consider our selves as members of the "people of Serbia" your path and our path are not even closely similar enough to result in a win-win (whatever that means).

I understand your point about making the difference betwen how things should be done now (your point) and how things should be done after (blags point)

However, the path is not negociable, at least not for us.

So, what i am telling you is that perhaps you should start preparing to be "belligerant" instead of trying to promote a concept or path that is not negociable.

The mandate of our negotiating team is to facilitate the transfer from a UN protectorate to an independent country. Anything that goes against this most basic principle is against the will of the people of Kosovo and will result in political suicide for the negotiating team.

Your interpretation of the "best future" and my interpreation of the "best future" are very different.

My "best future" will only be ensured once Serbia is gone from Kosovo, de facto and de jure.

Noel, Luciano, Nick, Princip:

Noel: Congrats, you have made a link! Everything she says in that article is right on. However, she is saying it is "partially sunny"... instead of "completely sunny." After 15 yrs of drizzle, rain, and hurricane, I am very pleased with "partially sunny" b/c the upcoming forecast is clear: we callfor partially sunny skys today... And looking ahead, we predict an extended forecast of clear, sunny days.

Luciano: EU is 8 yrs away. Today we have CEFTA and that is where we live. We are well on track to out-perform the others in this little arena. Remember, we need not need nor want to live like Belgians... Living like Greeks or Cypriots is just fine thanks!

Nick/ Princip: I am glad you do not interpret my strategies as anti-albanian (it is clearly political strategy & not xenophobic policy). Basically I point out that S has strategies to scuttle the proposal; cause difficulty in administering it; and breaking things in other places. However, I advocate not in order to dominate, but in self-defense by pointing out other complexities: contradictory legal principles; that disintegration of borders can continue even farther; and that we are creating weak states that seem economically not viable. I also advocate this b/c I don't like being pushed around by washington (and its time to take this out-of-control superpower down a few notches)! But ultimately... I am for Princip's "win-win."

QUESTION: Let us hypothetically say K is denied indep but given an unprecedented level of social, political, and economic autonomy stopping just short of "crossing the line" but that includes complete & unhindered access to financial development capital while allowing it to exploit & piggyback on the S infrastructure. Would you not call this "win-win? And would you walk away from this in order to get a flag and an anthem (and not even one you can choose yourself)?

That said... part of me sides with Kreshnik & Nick. BG better get really serious, really fast. What they have right now is a big joke. It's utopian. Its "la la land." Serbs are hardheaded and chauvanistic and we put ourselves in this situation not anyone else. There were far more intelligent ways to deal with separatism than milosevic's tactics. He also had his chance to avoid all this by capitalizing Serbia/ rump Yugoslavia in the 90's... But he turned that down too. And as we know in life, there are consequences for one's actions. So if BG wants this... they better get serious and the first step is registering for sensitivity classes at the local community center. Otherwise, having 1.5M eternally pissed off "citizens" is not a future.

Maybe it should be independent on Monday, Wednesday and Friday... and autonomous on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. With an interntional day on Sunday?

Princip , your fellow patriots should have proposed your win-win solution (as Nick said “whatever that is”) just after Tito Died in 1980 and prior to the 1981 demonstrations.

There is no chance whatsoever that the K-Albanians would agree to live with Serbia under the same roof. Further, your address to Kosovo /a as Kosovo & Metohia is very cynical.

The Serbian side should be more constructive and accept the Ahtisaari’s plan which gives the Serbian minority a strong protection within an independent Kosovo.

As Nick rightly said your perception of Kosovo’s future is against the wishes of the K-Albanians.

K-Albanians will never accept Serbian authority over Kosovo. Period.

Kosovo /a and Serbia can work together only when they recognise each other as independent states. The sooner this happen the better.

blag wrote:
"Maybe it should be independent on Monday, Wednesday and Friday... and autonomous on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. With an interntional day on Sunday?"

you made me laugh! thanks for that one.

btw:

it is way too long over with chauvinist strategies, and broad autonomy is far from that.
what is lacking is a sound approach to the "problem" from the albanian community.
when they start realizing that compromise is the only intelligent way for a solution, then it will improve very quick, I guess.

and sooner or later, the whole region will end up in the EU anyway.

jovan... i don't know about that. don't get me wrong, i am all for compromise and you know that my thing is about statecraft and S standing up for its legal rights. But ultimately what do you do if someone doesn’t want to live with you? you can't make someone live with you if they really don't want to. there will always be problems/ stress/ resentment/ fights, etc (just like in life). So if serbs get a veto in UNSC I really don't think that everything will suddenly be OK. and there's good chance it might get worse. do you really think BG can manage 1.5 million angry people who don’t want any part of it (I don't think any country can handle that!). Sorry, but BG just doesn't have a plan. It is very much a big part of this wholeproblem. And I wouldn’t trust S politicians with fixing my car let alone trying to solve this. It's one thing to not allow yourself to be illegally pushed round and demand your rights (this is normal)... but it still doesn't mean BG doesn't have to face some tough realities. kreshnik has always been very right about this point.

Too many worthless words. I can't even count them. Kosova will get its independence. I'd like to see how many words Blag, Princip and the rest of you will type anymore.

We will see!

to blag:

I think that first of all it is not 1.8 million Albanians who are for the extremist position.

most of them, I repeat most of them are intelligent and sound poeple, who in the end want to live in peace and prosperity.
they won´t
risk their personal future for greater-albanian-dreams,now that Milosevic is gone and the whole region is about to make first steps towards the EU...
..and after the international community says so ( no independence ), you will see how they will react.

broad autonomy is a lot, and they will realize that sooner or later.

and then, when the criminal-extremists loose the grip on the albanian KiM-population you will see how there will emerge real democratic leaders.

that will be the day, I will send my congratulations to my albanian friends, and even if most here won´t believe, I have some.

i think he is wrong! first: there won´t pass any resolution that is changeing the spirit of 1244. bilateral recognition would have to break un-resolutions AND would cost a political price (half of georgia or ex-bosnia
or azerbaijan, or ukraine a atomic power).
second: future status is a negotiation thing between moscow and washington, eu doesn´t have a say. due to the fact eu is divided, there is practically no way of bilateral acknowledgement from that corner.

so diplomatic focus yes, but on washington and moscow, and not on eu-states.

there will be clear and predicatbale consequnces to an action like this: they include north mitrovica decalring independence from independence; prolonged legal obstacles from BG that are intened to scare off potential investor's; diplomatic and economic isolation from BG; end-game in bosnia for republika srpska.

if you think that BG will not resort to the above... you are kidding yourself. i have not seen or heard of any such plans... but it seems fairly obvious what will take place. these things wouyld be catastrophic for K.

One way or another Kosovo /a will gain independence. This is a reiteration of my previous statements. It’s good to see that even the Serbian diplomats have come to accept this fact.

Blag I am sure that you are sceptical of your own claims. The intentions of K-Serbs to declare northern Kosovo as independent will have The domino effect. ( i.e Preshevo valley, West Macedonia, Montenegro, Sandjak, Republika Srpska, etc etc) the US and EU simply won’t allow that to happen. Russia’s position is clear on this, no support no veto (Abstention)

I am certain that BG is in no position to threat anyone in the region and let alone the foreign investors. BG stance would only worry foreigners to make further and/or new investments in Serbia and Serbian enclaves in Kosovo. This of course will ruin Serbia’s already weak economy.

Saying goes, people always look towards where they want to be…

Raso, you comment about ex-Bosnia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine. Breaking resolutions and so on… is a bit like my saying above.

1244 is made for Kosovo Situation only… and if any of the countries in the world is in the similar position like Kosovo, meaning, with the UN presence, with NATO presence, with Bitter past like the Albanians, with the stubborn opponent like Serbia’s negotiation team, and with the will of the most of Europeans to recognize the independence…
Then I believe that country will have the right for self determination and bilateral recognition of the state from the other UNSC countries.
There is no domino effect as you are stating it there.
And I tell you one thing; Russia will be one of the countries to recognize the independence of Kosovo, and Serbia too.

By the way blag,
What you’re saying is just a story that people use to tell kids before they go to sleep.

You get the point???

Noel:

I will go as far as to say that "something will change."

I don't know what diplomats you speak of when you say S diplomats see that K will be indep? Who are those diplomats?

As for the Mitrovica Serbs it seems to me like "they are already independent" and "have been so for 7 yrs." They have "no connection to Pristina" whatsoever. Call that what you want, but it sounds like independent to me. I'd like to see Pristina "integrate" them without causing mass unrest/ exodus. To think otherwise is naive. The quotes wer eplaced by me to bring attention to the same words that Pristina states to BG (we have been indep for 7 yrs; we have nothing to do with you, etc).

A domino effect is already happening in Bosnia at this very moment. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decani2/message/17466

A Domino effect in Serbia is unlikely b/c those communities are too fractious/ weak to make it happen. Ditto for Montenegro who could easily squash a movement if t sprouted.

The domino effect in Macedonia has been happening for 15 years and is nothing new. We all know it's a ticking time bomb.

I doubt highly that the Russian PM, the Russian FM, and the Russian Defense Secretary themsleves all made 3 homogenous statements in 3 different places of the world this weekend if they weren't serious about picking a fight at the UNSC. And then to have the Russian PM call Tadic on Statehood Day?! I mean, what further confirmation do you need? They are practically telegraphing to the world what they are going to do. The tone in the NY Times the past 3 days confirms this.

Do you not find it notable that not a single word out of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleeze Rice. Do you not find that odd or even ominous? By the way, has the American representative to the UN even been confirmed by the Congress yet?

As for BG threatening the region/ foreign investors. Investors fear one thing more than lost profits and that is legal entanglements. And there will be no such reciprocal effect on new investments in Serbia. Money is being made. Right Here. Right Now. Every Day.

Serbia's economy is not weak. You are terribly misinformed. Serbia's economy is "on-fire" and it is "red-hot." It grew 6.9% last yr (after growing 9.3% the prior yr). It is slotted to grow 8% this yr. Last yr it brought in $4.5B in FDI and 2007 is the yr of the really big privatizations. Serbia is the preferred distribution center for the entire CEFTA region of 60M consumers. It spopulation is highly educated and 42% speak English while all others speak other langauges. It is the last untapped market of significant size in Europe while also offering an excellent infrastructure to distribute to the region. It is quite simply becoming corporate headquarters for the CEFTA region.

three days ago i posted a challenge here http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=39605

i challenged all serbs on this site to acknowledge the terible and inhumane crimes committed in our name to the albanina population of kosovo (without asking for a reciprocal statement from the other side).

i am sad to say that only matthew has done so (and always has).

TO SERBS ON THIS SITE:
do you really think a veto in the UNSC will bring peace? it won't. it will only put off the problem and make it worse. serbs may get a reprieve at the UNSC but what will BG do next? it has no plan for solving this crisis. the first step is to acknowledge he crimes commited in your name and there were many).

Blag,

yes I do agree and truly believe that when a Serb has commited the crimes that many of us are only aware have been done falsely in the name of Serbdom then that person must be held account - in fact If it was I who had been responsible in some manner that I would have surrendered without hesitation - I can recall posting something very similar before regarding Mladic. I do not have any hesitation in agreeing with you or Matthew on this score - we all want a balanced view of the realities of tragic events and realise that only then can real reconciliation begin. Win-win is possible only with the truth of events being aired and that starts by being brave enough to face your wron doings.

My apology Blag for not spotting the earlier request but I will point out what has often been told to you by the likes of Kreshnick - you write too much (so do I) and sometimes I have to say I do skim your posts. I do hope this gets posted but I have noticed a certain deal of extra moderation recently.

good point princip. i will make my posts half as long henceforth. thanks!

Blag, you have some interesting observation on possible future developments. However, you and I can only agree to differ. As per Serbian confession in relation to the crimes they’ve committed I say Better Late Than Never.

Looks like you’ve learned how to make a LINK I still can’t ;-(, However, the link below will give you some insight ( although I’ve no doubt you’re well informed)of the current economical progress in Serbia, which in my view is still weak.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36149

I’ve been very reluctant recently whether to continue posting my comments in here or not. Mainly was put off by the immaturity of some commentators. I too, wish that there was a separate forum where we could discus issues on the subject of International relations & Economics. Personally I’m hopping to get a place at The LSE IR subject this year, of course as a mature student ;-(. I also speak Srbski and Albanian. I have been numerous times in Serbia ,Montenegro , Macedonia, Kosovo/a and Albania, my recent visit to the Balkans was last august. I scrutinise the situation in Serbia, Kosovo and Albania day in,day out.

I passionately believe that Kosovo / a must become internationally recognised as an independent state ASAP. As the only way towards lasting peace, prosperity and stability in the Balkans.

A CEFTA market of 30m is peanuts compared to a EU market of 490m.No connection should be made by anybody between economics which improves the livelihood of all with political issues.5(Moldova,Bosnia,Macedonia,Serbia,Montenegro) of the 7 CEFTA countries have separatist issues but Cyprus has proven that economics can move ahead of political considerations.

Noel,

"passionately believe that Kosovo / a must become internationally recognised as an independent state ASAP. As the only way towards lasting peace, prosperity and stability in the Balkans"

But surely the best way forward is not to create new walls but to pull them down? This is the contradiction of independence that Serbs have an issue with. By creating this wall, economic, social and political energy will be re-directed from creating a better future from all - net result all lose. Blag has set out the knock-on effects and I have to agree with him that this is exactly how things will pan out.

Serbs from the diaspora are a patriotic bunch but are also a bridge of understanding between West and East - our hearts have the passion but our brains have the rationale - so we understand the fears that drive certain events but have the thought to try and discuss the alternatives.

Win-win is something that should always have been the objective of the discussions over the last year. Much of that should have been about creating the right environment for building truth, trust and reconciliation. Only together - all the peoples of the Sovereign state of Serbia - can real economic progress and lasting resolution to the issue of Kosovo & Metohija be created.

I do hope that the negotiation team that Serbia sends can go on Wednesday to Vienna and suggest to the Albanian negotiating team to ignore Athisarri and go into a room by themselves and really thrash out (peacefully of course) the best way forward together and not carry on with this charade that has been imposed upon them both.

I think the talks have started from the wrong basis and I have to questions the true integrity of the term of "negotiations" that were labelled to them. Athisarri has always had the opinion that no soultion could ever be found - clearly that is a reflection on him and should not be a reflection of what is the best way forward.

Good luck with your application to LSE and carry on posting - it's good to talk even if at times we might be all too passionate.

Noel
Good luck with your Application and the new challenges at the LSE.

Princip,

Comparing blags and your statements, i must say that i am slowly starting to appreciate blags honesty and understanding of the problem. He advocates a destructive approach on the part of Belgrade (what he calls "belligerance") to achieve a political goal, which although totally unnaceptable and flawed in many ways still makes more sense then your dreamworld of compromises and win-wins.

To an autside observes your ideas about a win-win solution might sound quite appropriate. Good concieved terms tend to have quite an impact on the way people percieve a problem, but your must understand that we (albanians and serbs) have lived with each other for many centuries and know each other rather well. You may very well sell your win-win to people and countries who neither know nor care about Kosovo, but please keep your propaganda out of the Ballkans.

Regarding the negotiations, i wont even get into that, because i believe the k albanian posters have explained more than once the reasons why the negotiations are a complete waste of time.

Nick,

my "dreamworld of compromises and win-wins"
is the world of how all peoples can & do develop in peace and respect of each other - something as a Brit of Serbian heritage is only too aware can and needs to be striven for - they are not dreams in the EU. This is something that the West developed by - it is the basis of the EU!

"You may very well sell your win-win to people and countries who neither know nor care about Kosovo, but please keep your propaganda out of the Ballkans"

- this is not my propaganda it is the very basis upon which the EU continues and if I am not right are the technocrats who will become the custodians of a final solution for Kosovo & Metohija that Sediju and Ceku are very happy with.

Maybe you need to ask if the ways of before that you suggest are the reasons that Kosovo & Metohija is still stuck in the 19th Century economically, politically and socially.

Blag does not suggest that the way forward is beligerance - I would believe that he is only stating what the path of independence will lead to. Please put me right Blag as I am sure you will.

I understand his message as the likely scenario of independence and wish to suggest hope that all the peoples of Serbia can come together to a better a path then that which is about to be taken. Win-win is not an easy path for Serbs or Albanians but new walls won't help. Building a new truth, trust and reconciliation is the only way a lasting solution will come about.

Do you not wish to have the best future possible for all or do you prefer the Status Quo?

"I understand his message as the likely scenario of independence and wish to suggest hope that all the peoples of Serbia can come together to a better a path then that which is about to be taken."

Except that we do not consider our selves as members of the "people of Serbia" your path and our path are not even closely similar enough to result in a win-win (whatever that means).

I understand your point about making the difference betwen how things should be done now (your point) and how things should be done after (blags point)

However, the path is not negociable, at least not for us.

So, what i am telling you is that perhaps you should start preparing to be "belligerant" instead of trying to promote a concept or path that is not negociable.

The mandate of our negotiating team is to facilitate the transfer from a UN protectorate to an independent country. Anything that goes against this most basic principle is against the will of the people of Kosovo and will result in political suicide for the negotiating team.

Your interpretation of the "best future" and my interpreation of the "best future" are very different.

My "best future" will only be ensured once Serbia is gone from Kosovo, de facto and de jure.

Noel, Luciano, Nick, Princip:

Noel: Congrats, you have made a link! Everything she says in that article is right on. However, she is saying it is "partially sunny"... instead of "completely sunny." After 15 yrs of drizzle, rain, and hurricane, I am very pleased with "partially sunny" b/c the upcoming forecast is clear: we callfor partially sunny skys today... And looking ahead, we predict an extended forecast of clear, sunny days.

Luciano: EU is 8 yrs away. Today we have CEFTA and that is where we live. We are well on track to out-perform the others in this little arena. Remember, we need not need nor want to live like Belgians... Living like Greeks or Cypriots is just fine thanks!

Nick/ Princip: I am glad you do not interpret my strategies as anti-albanian (it is clearly political strategy & not xenophobic policy). Basically I point out that S has strategies to scuttle the proposal; cause difficulty in administering it; and breaking things in other places. However, I advocate not in order to dominate, but in self-defense by pointing out other complexities: contradictory legal principles; that disintegration of borders can continue even farther; and that we are creating weak states that seem economically not viable. I also advocate this b/c I don't like being pushed around by washington (and its time to take this out-of-control superpower down a few notches)! But ultimately... I am for Princip's "win-win."

QUESTION: Let us hypothetically say K is denied indep but given an unprecedented level of social, political, and economic autonomy stopping just short of "crossing the line" but that includes complete & unhindered access to financial development capital while allowing it to exploit & piggyback on the S infrastructure. Would you not call this "win-win? And would you walk away from this in order to get a flag and an anthem (and not even one you can choose yourself)?

That said... part of me sides with Kreshnik & Nick. BG better get really serious, really fast. What they have right now is a big joke. It's utopian. Its "la la land." Serbs are hardheaded and chauvanistic and we put ourselves in this situation not anyone else. There were far more intelligent ways to deal with separatism than milosevic's tactics. He also had his chance to avoid all this by capitalizing Serbia/ rump Yugoslavia in the 90's... But he turned that down too. And as we know in life, there are consequences for one's actions. So if BG wants this... they better get serious and the first step is registering for sensitivity classes at the local community center. Otherwise, having 1.5M eternally pissed off "citizens" is not a future.

Maybe it should be independent on Monday, Wednesday and Friday... and autonomous on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. With an interntional day on Sunday?

Princip , your fellow patriots should have proposed your win-win solution (as Nick said “whatever that is”) just after Tito Died in 1980 and prior to the 1981 demonstrations.

There is no chance whatsoever that the K-Albanians would agree to live with Serbia under the same roof. Further, your address to Kosovo /a as Kosovo & Metohia is very cynical.

The Serbian side should be more constructive and accept the Ahtisaari’s plan which gives the Serbian minority a strong protection within an independent Kosovo.

As Nick rightly said your perception of Kosovo’s future is against the wishes of the K-Albanians.

K-Albanians will never accept Serbian authority over Kosovo. Period.

Kosovo /a and Serbia can work together only when they recognise each other as independent states. The sooner this happen the better.

blag wrote:
"Maybe it should be independent on Monday, Wednesday and Friday... and autonomous on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. With an interntional day on Sunday?"

you made me laugh! thanks for that one.

btw:

it is way too long over with chauvinist strategies, and broad autonomy is far from that.
what is lacking is a sound approach to the "problem" from the albanian community.
when they start realizing that compromise is the only intelligent way for a solution, then it will improve very quick, I guess.

and sooner or later, the whole region will end up in the EU anyway.

jovan... i don't know about that. don't get me wrong, i am all for compromise and you know that my thing is about statecraft and S standing up for its legal rights. But ultimately what do you do if someone doesn’t want to live with you? you can't make someone live with you if they really don't want to. there will always be problems/ stress/ resentment/ fights, etc (just like in life). So if serbs get a veto in UNSC I really don't think that everything will suddenly be OK. and there's good chance it might get worse. do you really think BG can manage 1.5 million angry people who don’t want any part of it (I don't think any country can handle that!). Sorry, but BG just doesn't have a plan. It is very much a big part of this wholeproblem. And I wouldn’t trust S politicians with fixing my car let alone trying to solve this. It's one thing to not allow yourself to be illegally pushed round and demand your rights (this is normal)... but it still doesn't mean BG doesn't have to face some tough realities. kreshnik has always been very right about this point.

Too many worthless words. I can't even count them. Kosova will get its independence. I'd like to see how many words Blag, Princip and the rest of you will type anymore.

We will see!

to blag:

I think that first of all it is not 1.8 million Albanians who are for the extremist position.

most of them, I repeat most of them are intelligent and sound poeple, who in the end want to live in peace and prosperity.
they won´t
risk their personal future for greater-albanian-dreams,now that Milosevic is gone and the whole region is about to make first steps towards the EU...
..and after the international community says so ( no independence ), you will see how they will react.

broad autonomy is a lot, and they will realize that sooner or later.

and then, when the criminal-extremists loose the grip on the albanian KiM-population you will see how there will emerge real democratic leaders.

that will be the day, I will send my congratulations to my albanian friends, and even if most here won´t believe, I have some.