Kosovo interior minister resigns

thank god it wasn't serb police containing the crowd. if 2 albanians died under there watch Del Ponte & Walker would be screaming bloody massacre. its a shame this had to happen, if only they had protested in a more civilized manner like the serb crowd numbering many more thousand did the day before.

Kosovo 1999 under Slobodan Milosevic?.... No

http://www.serbianna.com/photo_2007/0123.html

This is Kosovo 2007 under Nato command.

Let me guess... its STILL Serbs fault?

"There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals".

hmmm, ten years too late for that sort of thinking?? What about Krajna?? violent action (operation storm) was used to attain political goals...was it not???

10,000 Serbs gather - no violence.

3,000 Albanians gather - all hell brakes lose.

I am sorry for the loss of life but this is what happens when groups attempt to use violence and it meet force. Maybe next time cooler heads will prevail instead of leading people to do your bidding and now you have 2 people who lost the lives.

BK-47, It is not true that 10000 serbs protested in Northern Mitro, it was not even 3000. You got the figures wrong.By the way I do not support Albin Kurti and if I had the power I will keep him in prison for long time, becasue it is all his fault.

No, Reporter, it's the fault of lack of freedom... doubt you can understand. How do you feel being shot by foreign police in your land?

"There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals".

Funny how that is written to refer to the demonstrators, rather than the cops that did the shooting people dead.

"hmmm, ten years too late for that sort of thinking?? What about Krajna?? violent action (operation storm) was used to attain political goals...was it not???"

True, but that was kind of inevitable considering the exraordinary level of violence used by Slobo and co four years earlier to cut your ethnically cleansed 'Krajina' republic out of the heart of Croatia, expelling all the non-Serbs. Both bad. Funny how you crowd only think the bad response is bad, not the bad beginings.

Mr Agim... you are not calling B92 liars are you??

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=09&nav_category=93&nav_id=39528

See picture of Serbs protesting in Kosovska Mitrovica

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070209/ids_photos_wl/r3821419434.jpg


A small Serb boy (I guess 7) holds rifle in his hands and tells Albanians what he s going to do with them when he get older.

Serb protesters demolished the Serbian parliament some years ago. http://www.emergency.com/2000/belgrade-fire.jpg

Only few weeks ago Serb hooligans attacked Croatian football fans in Australia
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/sports/070115/s011513A.jpg

“There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals.

Too bad Milosevic, Seselj, Kradzic, Mladic, did not know this. This would have avoided a war in Bosnia with 200 000 dead, and 10 000 dead in Kosovo.

I think we got off the subject was force was used to break up a violent demostration. Genc there would not have been any shooting if the protest was peaceful don't put the blame on lack of freedom!!! Self Deteremination was able to assemble weren't they? But it turned violent and the protestor did not believe force would be used to break up the protest if it was violence. This is not 2004 Genc. Now maybe people of Kosovo will understand that violence does not solve nothing. Let us stay on the subject and here in the present not the past of operation storm and other misfortunes of the past. The past can't be change but the future can be written.

Now maybe people of Kosovo will understand that violence does not solve nothing
-----------------------------

Which means violence does solve something:)

The Albanians have to show their will to keep Kosovo and transform it, vis-a-vis Belgrade's will to keep Kosovo and destroy it.

This here is a principled war. Principles cannot be compromoised hence their moto: NO NEGOTIATIONS! SELF-DETERMINATION!

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regards,

team B92

I cant say im suprised that there was violence, and im not suprised at the comments that the Albanians are posting. Always blaming someone else, BTW it wasnt just "foreign" police, it was also ethnic Albanian police. But werent you jsut praising NATO as your saveurs??

No Albanian protesters were killed by Serbian police during their demonstrations in the 1990s.

Incorrect Susanna. The picture actually shows violence between ethnic Serbs and ethnic Croats at the Australian Tennis Open. Drunken buffoons from both groups were to blame. Not, as you confidently assert, the Serbs.

A child with a plastic toy is symbolic to you? I played with plastic guns when i was a child and never developed a hatred for other ethnic groups. If you fear a child (1 in a group of 10,000 people) with a plastic gun then i suggest you get NATO involved. They'll no doubt fight your battles for you. Maybe depleted uranium shells would elimante this 7 year old threat... and his weapon of mass destruction.

George,

Yes, serbs are reknown all over the world for their peaceful ways.

We resisted peacefuly for 10 years under the most brutal regime in Europe.

I do not support Albin Kurti nor Vetvendosja, but i think he makes a very valid point "When its enough its enough"

I only wish he would have made his point in a more peaceful manner rather than get two young men killed.

The current situation is dire, in fact it’s a loose-loose situation if I had to coin a apt phrase.

The demonstration over the weekend proved this. The Government can control its people if the situation turns for the worse, well they can but they cant take the after effects.

This time two have died at the hands of there own, the knock on effect is that the PM claims excessive force, without investigation, a political no-no, now the PM has distrust among his own ranks. He has turned his back on his first front line, the police! What do you think is going through the heads of the local KPS officers now? The PM has shunned them, blamed them.

Secondly we have a resignation, a minister that can’t face the music, again blaming the situation on events without investigation.

I was observing the event, and truthfully, the KPS acted in accordance to the situation, they acted with diligence and professionalism and followed orders. This is a tough situation, and to make matter worse this was against people they knew and many this was friendship and neighbors.

Now we have one bigger problem; a term used by the Local Government all too often “The will of the people” and how do they react towards this current event?

The Government needs lessons in planning, diplomacy, and negotiation not just words of a pre-election campaigning that we all know never truly transpire, including the often unwarranted hard line attitudes for self gain. Ceku just stated “we don’t need War in Kosovo” Why would one say that if they knew a problem was not imminent? Good question, and this is my thought: This to me sounds like a cry of desperation, or a worry to contain assets, property, or business. This is not a cry from the people; this is a cry from a close group with self interest.

For me it’s irrelevant, I am from Scotland and we have been trying a lot longer for independence, even after we the Scot’s invented the television so the world can see what is happening in the world. However it looks like Braveheart’s land will have to wait far longer than Kosovo, and I do find that unfair!

I do find political and US agenda unfair for the people of Kosovo. We want to sell this as a model for the World to see that we can mediate and successfully implement a “Democratic Muslim State” In fact Kosovo is far from that, and I hope it stays that way. This is not anti-Muslim sentiment, its just a basic analysis that Kosovo is to virgin to handle the negative side of Islamic input that will damage any chance for the future.

Now we have the EU, the EU doesn’t want UN dirt, but this would never be publicly said and they would rather start from a clear sheet with a vision but more importantly a plan. This was tested by suggesting giving the Serbs a ten days extension, the immediate reaction from Kosovo political circles was “NO”.

The EU did not want to see this reaction, since they will be in control and do not want from day one to told what is going to happen. In due course the PISG then agreed. This was of course with the advice from international assistance, and under duress.

Kosovo government is acting like a secret service rather than a Government, the fact is that the people are very confused, and the wrong strategy has been implemented. Rather than saying in ten years we will be independent, they forced a issue that is impossible economically and socially.

However they are willing to build a new power station costing a huge sum of money rather than primary needs. Ok a power station is something needed, but at least remedy the current problem of depts. Owed to KEK. Imagine a government planning to spend the largest sum of money on one of the largest problems, not the power, but the return of investment, that is bad business sense and not the will of the people, in fact that is pure BUSINESS for some!

Scotland may not be independent, but it has its infrastructure and economy, but maybe if Kosovo get granted independence so can we “Scotland the Brave”

BK-47: "Mr Agim... you are not calling B92 liars are you??"

BBC reported only 3000 Serbs protesting in N Mitrovica:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6347221.stm

Democracy in action

Serbian politicians should learn of the Albanians in Kosovo. Kostunica and his nationalist mob have had 5 years to arrest "Radovan the rapist" and "Ratko the killer". It is about time to resign, Kostunica. And Balkans needs you so little, I suggest you to move to Fiji islands and be there until you convince yourself that all peoples of Balkans are worth the same.

Princip, Blag, Tatiana watch this video and if you do not agree please give a condemnation. I posted the link yesterday too but no one commented and I know why: The Serbian strategy is : Do not discuss what Serbs have done against the neighbours, only what neighbours have done against the Serbs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8DkmS_rbY


What is happening now is a win-win situation for Kosovo. They will get independence (every one knows that). What is the alternative (chance 1/100)? Federation with Serbia, and guess what: 35 % of the seats at the Serbian parliament and create as much chaos as they can until Serbs one day say: Get independence. The only difference will be: New Kosovo with expanded territory, 1 million Albanians in Central Serbia (same year Nokia comes with a new model smaller the previous one)


I apologise to Serbs if they feel I am generalizing too much. I know that there are Serbs who wants to live in peace with neighbours but they have been made invisible by Serbs living abroad, most of them nationalists. I know that Albanians and Serbs have many things in common. I had some Serbian friends and we laughed of the same jokes and in a way thought the same way, therefore it is very sad to see your politicians are destroying your future. I am shore that everything will much better once Kosovo gets independence..

This is in response to Jock McLean, the Scott that observed the event.

You say the KPS acted responsibly, and we do have to give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

You also state that, while Kosovo is far from being Islamic in any way, the US is trying to shape it into just that.

This is indeed troublesome, as I fear the US is using Kosovo as 'muslim currency' to bribe the Arab street into believing that the US is not fightin Islam.

This my friend, is the CRUX of the problem here. These powers are indeed colonial if that is the strategic value they are ascribing to Kosovo.

In this respect, Albin Kurti is right. He is saving Kosovo now, rather then mourn it later.

You have plenty of Albanian pundits crying while in EU meetings "Go ahead. Colonize us!" (Fatos Lubonja, and Veton Surroi).

Trust me mate! It is they who will give us the war. Not Albin Kurti!

Since we are going to post videos from YouTube...here is one of ALBANIANS destroying a SERBIAN CHURCH IN KOSOVO...Let me know if i need to post other videos, theres plenty!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpEepZWpNos

Albanians claimed at first the Serb crowd was less than 1000, then 2000 and now 3000. This does NOT look like 3000, this looks like a hell of a lot more than just 3000.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/09022007/46/photo/serbs-northern-kosovo-protest-against-united-nations-plan-southern-province.html

Pay attention, and you might learn what a PEACEFUL protest looks like. Not that CIRCUS show that we all saw pictures of in the 2nd post here.

Dear ????, although you didn't mention my name on the list of people you wanted to see the video, I watched it anyway. First of all, you're going to find nationalists and extremists in any society - yes, even Albanians as you're well aware. Second, this looked like it was at a football game? Not the usual place for brotherly comraderie especially if hooligans loudly make their voices known. Thirdly, if I understood the banner, which obviously wasn't anything pleasant towards Albanians, please explain to me how this is any different from anti-Serb graffiti spray painted on a desecrated Serbian church in Kosovo? How is this any different from "UCK" knife carved into icons of the Virgin Mary, or "Morti i Srbi" painted on the doorway to the Ljeviska Church in Prizren? How is this different than images of old Serb women beaten and assasulted? None of these incidents have ever been addressed by the Albanians on this site either. No one has ever come out and condemned the 2004 riots. So please don't accuse one side of being blind while your side is as equally guilty.

Let's not generalize as you pointed out in your own comments. While I share your hopeful optimism that life will get better in Kosovo in the near future, I also feel that trying to brand the other side as collectively nationalistic and xenophobic never gets anywhere except exacerbating tensions. Are Turks and Armenians anywhere closer to cooperation since 1915? They're more hostile to each other than ever. While I can't answer on behalf of Blag, Princip, or Tatiana, I can say that they could come back with a video showing opposite signs of anti-Serb aggression - and the back and forth conflict goes on. In reality, I think you'd be surprised at the level of Serbs who do talk about what happened in their name, and how they wish none of that would ever have happened. I think you'd be surprised to find the number of Serbs who have absolutely no problem giving Albanians some significant degree of self-rule. I think you'd be surprised to find that the vast majority of Serbs want peace and cooperation as much as you do. Obviously this is a sensitive issue, there will be disagreements, and each side will cling fervently to their own positions while drowing out voices from the other side, but let's ALL make a concerted effort to end the cycle of mutual accusations and trying to see who's the bigger racist.

Jock McLean,

It does surprise me given that I am a British Serb that our GBR Govt. is so pro-independence in someone else's country and yet can't see the contradiction of this foreign policy on it's own internal British policy.

Scotland - a nation of the UK, in Union for 300 years but before that a distinct and separate nation state for centuries prior and has a clear and 300 year old defined border is not given the same right that Blair via the FCO (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) is pushing for the illegal recognition of a 2nd Albanian state on the territory of Serbia. Moreover, "kosovars" is not a distinct nationality and there is no history of such a state! The ethnic-Albanians maybe the majority recently but independence for Kosovo & Metohija is akin to all the individual nations of Great Britain gaining independence and then a further sub-division is imposed because of recent population growth of one ethnic group in lets say the Borders region of Scotland. If this group then created a secessionist army how would the Scots react to these supposed "Borderers"? You should highlight this contradiction in Foreign policy (mainstay of Blair) with national British policy (as mentioned by Brown) and ask if this is likely to be squared prior to the local elections in May.

Clearly the SNP will be able to highlight this contradiction given that both Labour and Lib Dems (see Michael Moores MP - shadow Foreign Minister - he has a website) are ironically pro-independence in someone else's nations affairs but suspiciously quite in the domestic front. If Russia plays it's win-win veto then an illegal unilateral declaration by Southern Kosovo & Metohija recognised by the US & UK will mean that Scotland will be independent even sooner give it's legitamate claim over ethnic-Albanian claims to Kosovo & Metohija - a Serbian province.

On another note you might be interetsted in fellow Scots perspective on Kosovo Neil Craig (Glasgow) has written extensivly on the Balkans a link to a letter is below;


http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/03/milosevic-trial-farce-scotsman-letter.html

John Mclean

"I do find political and US agenda unfair for the people of Kosovo. We want to sell this as a model for the World to see that we can mediate and successfully implement a “Democratic Muslim State” In fact Kosovo is far from that, and I hope it stays that way. This is not anti-Muslim sentiment, its just a basic analysis that Kosovo is to virgin to handle the negative side of Islamic input that will damage any chance for the future. "

John and all others that claim that Kosovo will become a radical Islamic state, I have one question for you: Have you ever been in Kosovo? How many K. Albanians radical muslims have you met?

Albanians are probably the most secular people in Balkans. The trouble between serbs and albanians has nothing to do with religion. There are albanians who are catholics and orthodox and they don't get on with serbs either.

The whole radical muslim thing is just serb propaganda, and others who believe that are either naive or they become part of the propaganda. K. Albanians are more pro-european and pro-west than any other country in Balkans.

Serbs and croats fought each other and they are both christians!

The fact that west supported and supports K. Albanians has nothing to do with religion, so leave religion out of this.

The suggestion that West is supports independece because they want to prove that they are not anti-muslim is a ridiculous!

NATO intervened in 1999 before the whole 'muslim' issue became as prominent as now.

John I live in Scotland as well, and a lot of Scottish people do not support independence, they want to remain in UK. How come the most popular party in Scotland is Labour, and not SNP? (I am aware that SNP is becoming more popular)

If Scotland wanted to become independent, it could. If majority of SCottish peopele were to vote for independece in a referendum, I am sure England won't try to stop it. But I doubt independece idea will become popular in Scotland in the near future.

????,

I have to pull you up of a few facts and dubious speculations.

1) Albanians don't make up anywhere near 35% of Serbia's (including Kosovo) population. In 1991 it was 17% so I very much doubt it is anywhere near 35% now. In the 2002 census there was only 61,647 Albanias in Serbia minus Kosovo so this notion that central Serbia will be overrun with 1 million Albanians if Kosovo stays within Serbia is somewhat hard to imagine. Where would they live and how would they survive economically?

2) Nokia phones might be getting smaller by the year, but Serbia is the same size today as it was in 1991, 1974 & 1945.

3) If NATO and all its might couldn't arrest Karadzic in B-H while stationed there for many years why should you expect Serbia to arrest him?

Every nation has good and bad people.Mr.Albin Kurti is a bad person.He doesn't care about Kosovan Albanians at all.I felt for the loss and I felt for the parents which still don't know about their love ones since 1999, who were parading together with an evil like Mr.Kurti.For some time I thought Mr.Kurti is a clever person,but I was wrong.I thought he is our radical,but I was wrong.Who is he to tell to suffering Kosovan Albanians what to do.He never fought,he was in prison in Serbia and that's it.And now he wants to do something that nobody wants.If he thinks that by demonstrating like this will help,he is wrong.He is not the person to trust and if I would have any power in newest state in Europe,I would ban him for life,he is only an adult with the childs mind and these days it is easy to manipulate with children and I bet some of the head of Vetevedosje are manipulated from abroad,from someone that desperatly wants to cause any damage possible to the newest state in Europe which all of you don't want to except it.Hopefully this circus regarding status will end soon and we are going to have different tasks to deal with.It is amazing that on B-92 in Serbian language ,people from Serbia are more relaxed about loosing Kosova,while in here everyone is so positive about the outcome sometimes I wonder that they are talking about another Kosova somewhere else!!!I have a question for you:Have you ever been to Kosova and would you live in Kosova if things goes your way?!Cheerio.

Civilized people know how to demonstrate peacefully.Be very careful about the image you want to project in 2007.The past is history but today is reality.A people's true colors emerges during a time of challenges not when everything is going great.Seems to me many Albaninas do not respect ANY authority.A Palestinian friend of mine once said"Me and my brother against my cousin but me and my cousin against a stranger".

To J.Ham and Luciano:
I never heard that if someone demonstrate and at the same time use violence(regarding to J.Ham they didn’t use but they were tryin) police forces have right to use the deadly force!!! Before that force being used by police forces, three legal conditions must be in place:
1) legal (due to international standards such kind of ammunition-plastic is prohibited )
2) necessary (deadly force:use of firearms or hit with batons in vital organs have to be used only in situation when police officer has no other solution to protect his own life, it’s colleague or if citizen’s life. Who’s life was that day under the deadly threat? Demonstrator’s life who simply were massacred by police forces)
3) proportionality (demonstrators were not armed and they were committing a minor offence-due to Kosovo law maximum of punishment : 60 imprisonment, not death punishment. They were empty handed, it is terrible shooting them on the head and chest)

Your attitude is similar with Serbian police force in Kosovo during 80’s and 90’s, and thank you very much for showing us that you after 8 years haven’t change nothing and god bless all my colleagues KLA fighters, and all the good people in all over the world no matter of nationality, religion and race.

to valdet> wise analysis indeed! however it was clear that demonstrators were armed with sticks stones and bottles and became violent. they clearly outnumber the police thats why they were able to breach the metal cordon. after that there was a clear and present danger. the police duty is to "prevent" injury to ordinary civilians and damage to property. rubber bullets are allowed are sanctioned in many countries. what do you want the law enforcement authorities to do? watch and enjoy the show? like during 28 november and march 2004??? they had enough my dear and the spoiled brat needs to be stopped.

Police officers were justified in using plastic baton rounds in riots last year, a new report says.
The findings, published on Tuesday, said more than 110 officers were hurt in disturbances in north Belfast and in County Armagh.

please read this BBC article for clarification>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2011552.stm

To Tatjana and Abu:
you can’t ignore the international standards for law enforcement BPFF(Basic Principles for the use of Force and Firearms-see for this on the internet) we are talking here about the deadly force used by police officers which is the last resort and to be used only when other methods to protect the loss of life have failed. The purpose of deadly force is NOT TO KILL, BUT TO STOP THE ILLEGALL ACTION, shooting on the head is aimed to kill, not to stop. Same is with baton: hit on the head is to be considered deadly force.
Remember troubles in northern part of Mitrovica (April 2002?) when Serbs through a bomb on Poles-special units, what was the response of the Poles? Firearms? Rubber? None! Double standards, double standards.

"It is amazing that on B-92 in Serbian language ,people from Serbia are more relaxed about loosing Kosova,while in here everyone is so positive about the outcome sometimes I wonder that they are talking about another Kosova somewhere else!!!I have a question for you:Have you ever been to Kosova and would you live in Kosova if things goes your way?!Cheerio.
(louie, 12 February 2007, 22:05)"
Actually Louie, I have never been to Kosovo, but I would love to go. To be honest, I do feel a little unsafe about going there, but then again I visited Serbia as an American citizen right after the bombing while Milosevic was still running around. I would feel a lot more comfortable if I had an Albanian guide to show me around. If anyone is looking to sell their property there, please contact me. I will pay fair market value.
As far as living there, I plan to buy a summer home there regardless of the outcome and I encourage all of us in the Diaspora to do so immediately while prices are going to be at their lowest. We must continue to remain a presence in Kosovo. I feel a strong attachment to what I consider the foundation of Serbian civilization and culture. We in the Diaspora that pay attention to Serbia have strong feelings about it, otherwise we would have completely assimilated into the country in which we live. To be honest, no one else in my family understands my attachment to Serbia and they (probably rightfully so) think I'm a bit insane for moving to Serbia/Bosnia for a year and marrying a local Bosnian girl (Smartest thing I ever did, she's awesome). So what you are seeing as representative here on these forums are those Serbs who feel such a strong connection to what we view as our homeland that we maintain it in our lives everyday. Hence, the idea of Kosovo was something I held sacred even before I knew Albanians lived there! I also didn't know growing up that Yugoslavs were different people, I didn't know about Croats, Serbs, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, etc. The good thing is no one here on the Serb Diaspora side approves of violence or force to achieve our aims. I think Serbs from Serbia are tired and worn out from all the conflict and who can blame them? Those that post on B92 are the most liberal of Serbian society, from Belgrade, and traditionally opposed the policies of Milosevic. Those who live in the villages have a more conservative viewpoint, of course they can not afford computers and hence their voices are not heard here.
So yeah, I'll continue to press for real compromise and negotiation. If Kosovo gets independence, I'd be happy to take out some Albanians and buy them a drink in congratulation. However, I will still promote a Serbian presence in Kosovo, and do whatever I can to convince Serbs that its in our best interest to invest there, retain property there, be involved there and move there. I will continue to fight the revision of history that claims Serbia's attachment to Kosovo is a "myth". I personally would be a lot more comfortable with Kosovo Independence if the nationalistic elements of the Kosovar population stopped trying to take away our right to view Kosovo as the cradle of our civilization. Its sacred to many of us, and its sorta scary to me that some elements of your society would like to take that away from us. That to me is more sinful than just taking the land away.
Hopefully together we can promote religious tourism and such, and you can finally view those churches and our history in Kosovo as an economic necessity rather then a personal liability. That my friend, is what win-win is all about.
So in the future, independence or not, I hope that we can live peacefully as brothers and as neighbors and try to remember to judge each and every one of us on an individual basis rather the demonize one another's populations as a whole.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and seriously if any Albanians are interested in going out for a drink, I'm down for that (I'll buy if you get Independence). Those of us from the Balkans here in the US have far more in common then divides us.
I do want for the Kosovars to live in peace and have prosperity and I know you guys have had it hard, do not confuse that with my love for Kosovo. They are two separate things. I'm sorry but I simply can not support Independence at this time although I do believe it to be tragically inevitable. However, I do wish we could negotiate or at least try to work together, I worry greatly that if Kosovo is unilaterally recognized that it will only bring more instability to the region. We must learn to work together for the future of the region. I do think some of the alternatives floated here are actually better for both the Albanians and the Serbs. I still believe a partition/land swap idea has the ability to give more Albanians more freedom, yet still retain those areas that are most sacred to us Serbs.
I predict Kosovo will get independence, but will be effectively partitioned, but partitioned in a random chaotic manner based on the situation on the ground, and not in a way that brings long term stability. I also predict that the desire for independence for those left out of this deal (Presevo Valley, Macedonia, Malesi, Republik Srpska and others) will only grow as a response to independence granted through such means. To mean, its sorta like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion...

Valdet i don't know if you were in Kosovo for 04 riots or the last demostration. If property is being destroyed as were several UN vehcile and the demostrator tried to force there way through a police cordon and the police reacted with force to restore order. I hope Self Determination now understands that this is not 2004 and failed to mentioned that KPS Special forces were part of the response to the demostration. You mentioned tactics similar to Serb Police in the 80's and 90's well the KPS is using the same tactics and the violent protest will not be tolerated. You should blame the leader of the Self Determination Mr Kurti for the deaths of those two men. Violence meets violence everyone both Serb and Albanian now should understand that if you want assemble and protest peaceful by all means please do but it if your agenda is violence then there will be another needless case of lost lives. So for all those who will chime in saying you have rights to do as you want that is incorrect, the last security response was wake call to those who resort to violence. Mr Kurti called upon the Kosovo security force to join him well he got his answer.

RE:Matthew,
Dear Matthew,I had to reply to your comments as you always are one of the reasonable ones.My question about living in Kosova was addressed to all of us living abroad.As much as we love our countries we have to be honest with the fact that life outside Serbia and Kosova it is much better.Once the children come to the world it is very difficult to decide whether to go back to Kosova or to your country Serbia.You are saying that you live in San Fransisco,so for you to leave all that beauty for Balkans it is very difficult.So, for you to buy a summer house in Kosova I don't think it is a good idea.Now because of this circus about the solution for Kosova maybe you feel homesick or you feel the need to defend your country.If Kosova becomes independent,which is most likely,you and all other Serbian Citizens are welcome to visit your important and historic places.Life goes on.Greeks still talk about Istanbul,Izmir and other now Turkish cities,they can still go to Istanbul and other places to visit their historical important places.What I dislike in here is that some of commentators are very very rude towards Kosovan Albanians.They have diffiulties to except the fact that Kosovan Albanians are more mature,intelligent,more europian then before.I come from town called Peja where 30% of population were Serbs and Montenegrin.80% of houses were burnt,thousands of citizens were killed during the war.Now the town is 99% Kosovan albanians,serbs sold the flats long time ago,for citizens of Peja it is very difficult to accept the fact that one day they will live together with serbs after that scenario in 1999 when alot of nonalbanians from Peja were involved in you know what.Commentators in this site are forgetting what caused this situation now and sometimes are over confident that the outcome will be very positive for them.Dear Matthew if you come to London I will buy you a drink as we both know the possible outcome.See you soon my friend, a cold beer in of the pubs in London has your name on it.Cheerio.

Louie,

I absolutely sympathize with Albanians and what you suffered. My family is all in Krajina and Dalmatia in Croatia. My wife personally experienced ethnic cleansing, and afterwards had to live day to day in plain view of the snipers on the Croatia side of the river. You could see them from the kitchen window. I know full well how the Ustashe treated Serbs in WWII, so I can only imagine that Albanians feel very much the same towards Serbians as we Serbians often feel towards Croatians. I absolutely respect the Albanian viewpoint, and I know they feel the same about Independence that I feel about retaining our cultural heritage. Both feelings are valid and I do not believe its appropriate for either side to insult the other's belief system. I truly hope that we can find a compromise that respects these feelings on both sides and sets the foundation for peace and stability in the future, although I am pessimistic that such a solution based on compromise is possible at this time, when wounds are still so fresh in everyone's memory. Regardless, I will always promote Kosovo as the cradle of Serbian civilization and as I've said, I simply can not support complete indepedence for Kosovo at this time. I honestly wish I could. However, no one should confuse that with support of ethnic cleansing or the abuse of the Albanian population, in my mind those are separate issues.

I have some Croatian friends here in the States (despite my strong negative feelings toward the Ustashe), and they think I'm absolutely crazy for wanting to invest in real estate out there, or that I would want to live out there. My family has a rich history on the Coast (we were Knez's in Risan since the 10th century) and its beautiful there. My retirement savings (Social Security) will not go far in supporting me in my old age here in Silicon Valley where I live, so retiring to the coast is the logical thing to do. I feel very comfortable in the Balkans, I always wondered why I love coffee and bacon and cheese and grilled meat so much. Serbs are very emotional and out-going party fun loving kind of people, and I felt like I fit in for the first time in my life. So yeah, I put in for a transfer to our Brussels office so I could be closer to the Balkans and my investments there.

I travel to Europe a couple of times a year, although I generally go through Germany as I fly into Zagreb generally to visit my wife's family. I am sure that I will be in London at some point in the future though, and yeah, I'd love to have a drink with you. Same goes for any Albanian. The best we as individuals can do at this point in time is to create friendships on an individual basis and hope that our children have a brighter future then our parents. I can be contacted at lazslow@hotmail.com

Anyone on either side is free to send hate mail as well if you wish, however, please use facts and reason if you wish to debate me.

thank god it wasn't serb police containing the crowd. if 2 albanians died under there watch Del Ponte & Walker would be screaming bloody massacre. its a shame this had to happen, if only they had protested in a more civilized manner like the serb crowd numbering many more thousand did the day before.

Kosovo 1999 under Slobodan Milosevic?.... No

http://www.serbianna.com/photo_2007/0123.html

This is Kosovo 2007 under Nato command.

Let me guess... its STILL Serbs fault?

"There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals".

hmmm, ten years too late for that sort of thinking?? What about Krajna?? violent action (operation storm) was used to attain political goals...was it not???

10,000 Serbs gather - no violence.

3,000 Albanians gather - all hell brakes lose.

I am sorry for the loss of life but this is what happens when groups attempt to use violence and it meet force. Maybe next time cooler heads will prevail instead of leading people to do your bidding and now you have 2 people who lost the lives.

BK-47, It is not true that 10000 serbs protested in Northern Mitro, it was not even 3000. You got the figures wrong.By the way I do not support Albin Kurti and if I had the power I will keep him in prison for long time, becasue it is all his fault.

No, Reporter, it's the fault of lack of freedom... doubt you can understand. How do you feel being shot by foreign police in your land?

"There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals".

Funny how that is written to refer to the demonstrators, rather than the cops that did the shooting people dead.

"hmmm, ten years too late for that sort of thinking?? What about Krajna?? violent action (operation storm) was used to attain political goals...was it not???"

True, but that was kind of inevitable considering the exraordinary level of violence used by Slobo and co four years earlier to cut your ethnically cleansed 'Krajina' republic out of the heart of Croatia, expelling all the non-Serbs. Both bad. Funny how you crowd only think the bad response is bad, not the bad beginings.

Mr Agim... you are not calling B92 liars are you??

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=09&nav_category=93&nav_id=39528

See picture of Serbs protesting in Kosovska Mitrovica

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070209/ids_photos_wl/r3821419434.jpg


A small Serb boy (I guess 7) holds rifle in his hands and tells Albanians what he s going to do with them when he get older.

Serb protesters demolished the Serbian parliament some years ago. http://www.emergency.com/2000/belgrade-fire.jpg

Only few weeks ago Serb hooligans attacked Croatian football fans in Australia
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/sports/070115/s011513A.jpg

“There’s no room for violent action aimed at attaining political goals.

Too bad Milosevic, Seselj, Kradzic, Mladic, did not know this. This would have avoided a war in Bosnia with 200 000 dead, and 10 000 dead in Kosovo.

I think we got off the subject was force was used to break up a violent demostration. Genc there would not have been any shooting if the protest was peaceful don't put the blame on lack of freedom!!! Self Deteremination was able to assemble weren't they? But it turned violent and the protestor did not believe force would be used to break up the protest if it was violence. This is not 2004 Genc. Now maybe people of Kosovo will understand that violence does not solve nothing. Let us stay on the subject and here in the present not the past of operation storm and other misfortunes of the past. The past can't be change but the future can be written.

Now maybe people of Kosovo will understand that violence does not solve nothing
-----------------------------

Which means violence does solve something:)

The Albanians have to show their will to keep Kosovo and transform it, vis-a-vis Belgrade's will to keep Kosovo and destroy it.

This here is a principled war. Principles cannot be compromoised hence their moto: NO NEGOTIATIONS! SELF-DETERMINATION!

note to our visitors interested in posting "clickable" links in their comments: you can do so simply by typing or pasting full URL (http:// included) of the location you wish to link fellow posters to. you do not need to add tags to your posts.

we encourage our visitors to post links rather than copied text, especially of copyrighted material.

regards,

team B92

I cant say im suprised that there was violence, and im not suprised at the comments that the Albanians are posting. Always blaming someone else, BTW it wasnt just "foreign" police, it was also ethnic Albanian police. But werent you jsut praising NATO as your saveurs??

No Albanian protesters were killed by Serbian police during their demonstrations in the 1990s.

Incorrect Susanna. The picture actually shows violence between ethnic Serbs and ethnic Croats at the Australian Tennis Open. Drunken buffoons from both groups were to blame. Not, as you confidently assert, the Serbs.

A child with a plastic toy is symbolic to you? I played with plastic guns when i was a child and never developed a hatred for other ethnic groups. If you fear a child (1 in a group of 10,000 people) with a plastic gun then i suggest you get NATO involved. They'll no doubt fight your battles for you. Maybe depleted uranium shells would elimante this 7 year old threat... and his weapon of mass destruction.

George,

Yes, serbs are reknown all over the world for their peaceful ways.

We resisted peacefuly for 10 years under the most brutal regime in Europe.

I do not support Albin Kurti nor Vetvendosja, but i think he makes a very valid point "When its enough its enough"

I only wish he would have made his point in a more peaceful manner rather than get two young men killed.

The current situation is dire, in fact it’s a loose-loose situation if I had to coin a apt phrase.

The demonstration over the weekend proved this. The Government can control its people if the situation turns for the worse, well they can but they cant take the after effects.

This time two have died at the hands of there own, the knock on effect is that the PM claims excessive force, without investigation, a political no-no, now the PM has distrust among his own ranks. He has turned his back on his first front line, the police! What do you think is going through the heads of the local KPS officers now? The PM has shunned them, blamed them.

Secondly we have a resignation, a minister that can’t face the music, again blaming the situation on events without investigation.

I was observing the event, and truthfully, the KPS acted in accordance to the situation, they acted with diligence and professionalism and followed orders. This is a tough situation, and to make matter worse this was against people they knew and many this was friendship and neighbors.

Now we have one bigger problem; a term used by the Local Government all too often “The will of the people” and how do they react towards this current event?

The Government needs lessons in planning, diplomacy, and negotiation not just words of a pre-election campaigning that we all know never truly transpire, including the often unwarranted hard line attitudes for self gain. Ceku just stated “we don’t need War in Kosovo” Why would one say that if they knew a problem was not imminent? Good question, and this is my thought: This to me sounds like a cry of desperation, or a worry to contain assets, property, or business. This is not a cry from the people; this is a cry from a close group with self interest.

For me it’s irrelevant, I am from Scotland and we have been trying a lot longer for independence, even after we the Scot’s invented the television so the world can see what is happening in the world. However it looks like Braveheart’s land will have to wait far longer than Kosovo, and I do find that unfair!

I do find political and US agenda unfair for the people of Kosovo. We want to sell this as a model for the World to see that we can mediate and successfully implement a “Democratic Muslim State” In fact Kosovo is far from that, and I hope it stays that way. This is not anti-Muslim sentiment, its just a basic analysis that Kosovo is to virgin to handle the negative side of Islamic input that will damage any chance for the future.

Now we have the EU, the EU doesn’t want UN dirt, but this would never be publicly said and they would rather start from a clear sheet with a vision but more importantly a plan. This was tested by suggesting giving the Serbs a ten days extension, the immediate reaction from Kosovo political circles was “NO”.

The EU did not want to see this reaction, since they will be in control and do not want from day one to told what is going to happen. In due course the PISG then agreed. This was of course with the advice from international assistance, and under duress.

Kosovo government is acting like a secret service rather than a Government, the fact is that the people are very confused, and the wrong strategy has been implemented. Rather than saying in ten years we will be independent, they forced a issue that is impossible economically and socially.

However they are willing to build a new power station costing a huge sum of money rather than primary needs. Ok a power station is something needed, but at least remedy the current problem of depts. Owed to KEK. Imagine a government planning to spend the largest sum of money on one of the largest problems, not the power, but the return of investment, that is bad business sense and not the will of the people, in fact that is pure BUSINESS for some!

Scotland may not be independent, but it has its infrastructure and economy, but maybe if Kosovo get granted independence so can we “Scotland the Brave”

BK-47: "Mr Agim... you are not calling B92 liars are you??"

BBC reported only 3000 Serbs protesting in N Mitrovica:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6347221.stm

Democracy in action

Serbian politicians should learn of the Albanians in Kosovo. Kostunica and his nationalist mob have had 5 years to arrest "Radovan the rapist" and "Ratko the killer". It is about time to resign, Kostunica. And Balkans needs you so little, I suggest you to move to Fiji islands and be there until you convince yourself that all peoples of Balkans are worth the same.

Princip, Blag, Tatiana watch this video and if you do not agree please give a condemnation. I posted the link yesterday too but no one commented and I know why: The Serbian strategy is : Do not discuss what Serbs have done against the neighbours, only what neighbours have done against the Serbs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8DkmS_rbY


What is happening now is a win-win situation for Kosovo. They will get independence (every one knows that). What is the alternative (chance 1/100)? Federation with Serbia, and guess what: 35 % of the seats at the Serbian parliament and create as much chaos as they can until Serbs one day say: Get independence. The only difference will be: New Kosovo with expanded territory, 1 million Albanians in Central Serbia (same year Nokia comes with a new model smaller the previous one)


I apologise to Serbs if they feel I am generalizing too much. I know that there are Serbs who wants to live in peace with neighbours but they have been made invisible by Serbs living abroad, most of them nationalists. I know that Albanians and Serbs have many things in common. I had some Serbian friends and we laughed of the same jokes and in a way thought the same way, therefore it is very sad to see your politicians are destroying your future. I am shore that everything will much better once Kosovo gets independence..

This is in response to Jock McLean, the Scott that observed the event.

You say the KPS acted responsibly, and we do have to give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

You also state that, while Kosovo is far from being Islamic in any way, the US is trying to shape it into just that.

This is indeed troublesome, as I fear the US is using Kosovo as 'muslim currency' to bribe the Arab street into believing that the US is not fightin Islam.

This my friend, is the CRUX of the problem here. These powers are indeed colonial if that is the strategic value they are ascribing to Kosovo.

In this respect, Albin Kurti is right. He is saving Kosovo now, rather then mourn it later.

You have plenty of Albanian pundits crying while in EU meetings "Go ahead. Colonize us!" (Fatos Lubonja, and Veton Surroi).

Trust me mate! It is they who will give us the war. Not Albin Kurti!

Since we are going to post videos from YouTube...here is one of ALBANIANS destroying a SERBIAN CHURCH IN KOSOVO...Let me know if i need to post other videos, theres plenty!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpEepZWpNos

Albanians claimed at first the Serb crowd was less than 1000, then 2000 and now 3000. This does NOT look like 3000, this looks like a hell of a lot more than just 3000.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/09022007/46/photo/serbs-northern-kosovo-protest-against-united-nations-plan-southern-province.html

Pay attention, and you might learn what a PEACEFUL protest looks like. Not that CIRCUS show that we all saw pictures of in the 2nd post here.

Dear ????, although you didn't mention my name on the list of people you wanted to see the video, I watched it anyway. First of all, you're going to find nationalists and extremists in any society - yes, even Albanians as you're well aware. Second, this looked like it was at a football game? Not the usual place for brotherly comraderie especially if hooligans loudly make their voices known. Thirdly, if I understood the banner, which obviously wasn't anything pleasant towards Albanians, please explain to me how this is any different from anti-Serb graffiti spray painted on a desecrated Serbian church in Kosovo? How is this any different from "UCK" knife carved into icons of the Virgin Mary, or "Morti i Srbi" painted on the doorway to the Ljeviska Church in Prizren? How is this different than images of old Serb women beaten and assasulted? None of these incidents have ever been addressed by the Albanians on this site either. No one has ever come out and condemned the 2004 riots. So please don't accuse one side of being blind while your side is as equally guilty.

Let's not generalize as you pointed out in your own comments. While I share your hopeful optimism that life will get better in Kosovo in the near future, I also feel that trying to brand the other side as collectively nationalistic and xenophobic never gets anywhere except exacerbating tensions. Are Turks and Armenians anywhere closer to cooperation since 1915? They're more hostile to each other than ever. While I can't answer on behalf of Blag, Princip, or Tatiana, I can say that they could come back with a video showing opposite signs of anti-Serb aggression - and the back and forth conflict goes on. In reality, I think you'd be surprised at the level of Serbs who do talk about what happened in their name, and how they wish none of that would ever have happened. I think you'd be surprised to find the number of Serbs who have absolutely no problem giving Albanians some significant degree of self-rule. I think you'd be surprised to find that the vast majority of Serbs want peace and cooperation as much as you do. Obviously this is a sensitive issue, there will be disagreements, and each side will cling fervently to their own positions while drowing out voices from the other side, but let's ALL make a concerted effort to end the cycle of mutual accusations and trying to see who's the bigger racist.

Jock McLean,

It does surprise me given that I am a British Serb that our GBR Govt. is so pro-independence in someone else's country and yet can't see the contradiction of this foreign policy on it's own internal British policy.

Scotland - a nation of the UK, in Union for 300 years but before that a distinct and separate nation state for centuries prior and has a clear and 300 year old defined border is not given the same right that Blair via the FCO (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) is pushing for the illegal recognition of a 2nd Albanian state on the territory of Serbia. Moreover, "kosovars" is not a distinct nationality and there is no history of such a state! The ethnic-Albanians maybe the majority recently but independence for Kosovo & Metohija is akin to all the individual nations of Great Britain gaining independence and then a further sub-division is imposed because of recent population growth of one ethnic group in lets say the Borders region of Scotland. If this group then created a secessionist army how would the Scots react to these supposed "Borderers"? You should highlight this contradiction in Foreign policy (mainstay of Blair) with national British policy (as mentioned by Brown) and ask if this is likely to be squared prior to the local elections in May.

Clearly the SNP will be able to highlight this contradiction given that both Labour and Lib Dems (see Michael Moores MP - shadow Foreign Minister - he has a website) are ironically pro-independence in someone else's nations affairs but suspiciously quite in the domestic front. If Russia plays it's win-win veto then an illegal unilateral declaration by Southern Kosovo & Metohija recognised by the US & UK will mean that Scotland will be independent even sooner give it's legitamate claim over ethnic-Albanian claims to Kosovo & Metohija - a Serbian province.

On another note you might be interetsted in fellow Scots perspective on Kosovo Neil Craig (Glasgow) has written extensivly on the Balkans a link to a letter is below;


http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/03/milosevic-trial-farce-scotsman-letter.html

John Mclean

"I do find political and US agenda unfair for the people of Kosovo. We want to sell this as a model for the World to see that we can mediate and successfully implement a “Democratic Muslim State” In fact Kosovo is far from that, and I hope it stays that way. This is not anti-Muslim sentiment, its just a basic analysis that Kosovo is to virgin to handle the negative side of Islamic input that will damage any chance for the future. "

John and all others that claim that Kosovo will become a radical Islamic state, I have one question for you: Have you ever been in Kosovo? How many K. Albanians radical muslims have you met?

Albanians are probably the most secular people in Balkans. The trouble between serbs and albanians has nothing to do with religion. There are albanians who are catholics and orthodox and they don't get on with serbs either.

The whole radical muslim thing is just serb propaganda, and others who believe that are either naive or they become part of the propaganda. K. Albanians are more pro-european and pro-west than any other country in Balkans.

Serbs and croats fought each other and they are both christians!

The fact that west supported and supports K. Albanians has nothing to do with religion, so leave religion out of this.

The suggestion that West is supports independece because they want to prove that they are not anti-muslim is a ridiculous!

NATO intervened in 1999 before the whole 'muslim' issue became as prominent as now.

John I live in Scotland as well, and a lot of Scottish people do not support independence, they want to remain in UK. How come the most popular party in Scotland is Labour, and not SNP? (I am aware that SNP is becoming more popular)

If Scotland wanted to become independent, it could. If majority of SCottish peopele were to vote for independece in a referendum, I am sure England won't try to stop it. But I doubt independece idea will become popular in Scotland in the near future.

????,

I have to pull you up of a few facts and dubious speculations.

1) Albanians don't make up anywhere near 35% of Serbia's (including Kosovo) population. In 1991 it was 17% so I very much doubt it is anywhere near 35% now. In the 2002 census there was only 61,647 Albanias in Serbia minus Kosovo so this notion that central Serbia will be overrun with 1 million Albanians if Kosovo stays within Serbia is somewhat hard to imagine. Where would they live and how would they survive economically?

2) Nokia phones might be getting smaller by the year, but Serbia is the same size today as it was in 1991, 1974 & 1945.

3) If NATO and all its might couldn't arrest Karadzic in B-H while stationed there for many years why should you expect Serbia to arrest him?

Every nation has good and bad people.Mr.Albin Kurti is a bad person.He doesn't care about Kosovan Albanians at all.I felt for the loss and I felt for the parents which still don't know about their love ones since 1999, who were parading together with an evil like Mr.Kurti.For some time I thought Mr.Kurti is a clever person,but I was wrong.I thought he is our radical,but I was wrong.Who is he to tell to suffering Kosovan Albanians what to do.He never fought,he was in prison in Serbia and that's it.And now he wants to do something that nobody wants.If he thinks that by demonstrating like this will help,he is wrong.He is not the person to trust and if I would have any power in newest state in Europe,I would ban him for life,he is only an adult with the childs mind and these days it is easy to manipulate with children and I bet some of the head of Vetevedosje are manipulated from abroad,from someone that desperatly wants to cause any damage possible to the newest state in Europe which all of you don't want to except it.Hopefully this circus regarding status will end soon and we are going to have different tasks to deal with.It is amazing that on B-92 in Serbian language ,people from Serbia are more relaxed about loosing Kosova,while in here everyone is so positive about the outcome sometimes I wonder that they are talking about another Kosova somewhere else!!!I have a question for you:Have you ever been to Kosova and would you live in Kosova if things goes your way?!Cheerio.

Civilized people know how to demonstrate peacefully.Be very careful about the image you want to project in 2007.The past is history but today is reality.A people's true colors emerges during a time of challenges not when everything is going great.Seems to me many Albaninas do not respect ANY authority.A Palestinian friend of mine once said"Me and my brother against my cousin but me and my cousin against a stranger".

To J.Ham and Luciano:
I never heard that if someone demonstrate and at the same time use violence(regarding to J.Ham they didn’t use but they were tryin) police forces have right to use the deadly force!!! Before that force being used by police forces, three legal conditions must be in place:
1) legal (due to international standards such kind of ammunition-plastic is prohibited )
2) necessary (deadly force:use of firearms or hit with batons in vital organs have to be used only in situation when police officer has no other solution to protect his own life, it’s colleague or if citizen’s life. Who’s life was that day under the deadly threat? Demonstrator’s life who simply were massacred by police forces)
3) proportionality (demonstrators were not armed and they were committing a minor offence-due to Kosovo law maximum of punishment : 60 imprisonment, not death punishment. They were empty handed, it is terrible shooting them on the head and chest)

Your attitude is similar with Serbian police force in Kosovo during 80’s and 90’s, and thank you very much for showing us that you after 8 years haven’t change nothing and god bless all my colleagues KLA fighters, and all the good people in all over the world no matter of nationality, religion and race.

to valdet> wise analysis indeed! however it was clear that demonstrators were armed with sticks stones and bottles and became violent. they clearly outnumber the police thats why they were able to breach the metal cordon. after that there was a clear and present danger. the police duty is to "prevent" injury to ordinary civilians and damage to property. rubber bullets are allowed are sanctioned in many countries. what do you want the law enforcement authorities to do? watch and enjoy the show? like during 28 november and march 2004??? they had enough my dear and the spoiled brat needs to be stopped.

Police officers were justified in using plastic baton rounds in riots last year, a new report says.
The findings, published on Tuesday, said more than 110 officers were hurt in disturbances in north Belfast and in County Armagh.

please read this BBC article for clarification>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2011552.stm

To Tatjana and Abu:
you can’t ignore the international standards for law enforcement BPFF(Basic Principles for the use of Force and Firearms-see for this on the internet) we are talking here about the deadly force used by police officers which is the last resort and to be used only when other methods to protect the loss of life have failed. The purpose of deadly force is NOT TO KILL, BUT TO STOP THE ILLEGALL ACTION, shooting on the head is aimed to kill, not to stop. Same is with baton: hit on the head is to be considered deadly force.
Remember troubles in northern part of Mitrovica (April 2002?) when Serbs through a bomb on Poles-special units, what was the response of the Poles? Firearms? Rubber? None! Double standards, double standards.

"It is amazing that on B-92 in Serbian language ,people from Serbia are more relaxed about loosing Kosova,while in here everyone is so positive about the outcome sometimes I wonder that they are talking about another Kosova somewhere else!!!I have a question for you:Have you ever been to Kosova and would you live in Kosova if things goes your way?!Cheerio.
(louie, 12 February 2007, 22:05)"
Actually Louie, I have never been to Kosovo, but I would love to go. To be honest, I do feel a little unsafe about going there, but then again I visited Serbia as an American citizen right after the bombing while Milosevic was still running around. I would feel a lot more comfortable if I had an Albanian guide to show me around. If anyone is looking to sell their property there, please contact me. I will pay fair market value.
As far as living there, I plan to buy a summer home there regardless of the outcome and I encourage all of us in the Diaspora to do so immediately while prices are going to be at their lowest. We must continue to remain a presence in Kosovo. I feel a strong attachment to what I consider the foundation of Serbian civilization and culture. We in the Diaspora that pay attention to Serbia have strong feelings about it, otherwise we would have completely assimilated into the country in which we live. To be honest, no one else in my family understands my attachment to Serbia and they (probably rightfully so) think I'm a bit insane for moving to Serbia/Bosnia for a year and marrying a local Bosnian girl (Smartest thing I ever did, she's awesome). So what you are seeing as representative here on these forums are those Serbs who feel such a strong connection to what we view as our homeland that we maintain it in our lives everyday. Hence, the idea of Kosovo was something I held sacred even before I knew Albanians lived there! I also didn't know growing up that Yugoslavs were different people, I didn't know about Croats, Serbs, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, etc. The good thing is no one here on the Serb Diaspora side approves of violence or force to achieve our aims. I think Serbs from Serbia are tired and worn out from all the conflict and who can blame them? Those that post on B92 are the most liberal of Serbian society, from Belgrade, and traditionally opposed the policies of Milosevic. Those who live in the villages have a more conservative viewpoint, of course they can not afford computers and hence their voices are not heard here.
So yeah, I'll continue to press for real compromise and negotiation. If Kosovo gets independence, I'd be happy to take out some Albanians and buy them a drink in congratulation. However, I will still promote a Serbian presence in Kosovo, and do whatever I can to convince Serbs that its in our best interest to invest there, retain property there, be involved there and move there. I will continue to fight the revision of history that claims Serbia's attachment to Kosovo is a "myth". I personally would be a lot more comfortable with Kosovo Independence if the nationalistic elements of the Kosovar population stopped trying to take away our right to view Kosovo as the cradle of our civilization. Its sacred to many of us, and its sorta scary to me that some elements of your society would like to take that away from us. That to me is more sinful than just taking the land away.
Hopefully together we can promote religious tourism and such, and you can finally view those churches and our history in Kosovo as an economic necessity rather then a personal liability. That my friend, is what win-win is all about.
So in the future, independence or not, I hope that we can live peacefully as brothers and as neighbors and try to remember to judge each and every one of us on an individual basis rather the demonize one another's populations as a whole.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and seriously if any Albanians are interested in going out for a drink, I'm down for that (I'll buy if you get Independence). Those of us from the Balkans here in the US have far more in common then divides us.
I do want for the Kosovars to live in peace and have prosperity and I know you guys have had it hard, do not confuse that with my love for Kosovo. They are two separate things. I'm sorry but I simply can not support Independence at this time although I do believe it to be tragically inevitable. However, I do wish we could negotiate or at least try to work together, I worry greatly that if Kosovo is unilaterally recognized that it will only bring more instability to the region. We must learn to work together for the future of the region. I do think some of the alternatives floated here are actually better for both the Albanians and the Serbs. I still believe a partition/land swap idea has the ability to give more Albanians more freedom, yet still retain those areas that are most sacred to us Serbs.
I predict Kosovo will get independence, but will be effectively partitioned, but partitioned in a random chaotic manner based on the situation on the ground, and not in a way that brings long term stability. I also predict that the desire for independence for those left out of this deal (Presevo Valley, Macedonia, Malesi, Republik Srpska and others) will only grow as a response to independence granted through such means. To mean, its sorta like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion...

Valdet i don't know if you were in Kosovo for 04 riots or the last demostration. If property is being destroyed as were several UN vehcile and the demostrator tried to force there way through a police cordon and the police reacted with force to restore order. I hope Self Determination now understands that this is not 2004 and failed to mentioned that KPS Special forces were part of the response to the demostration. You mentioned tactics similar to Serb Police in the 80's and 90's well the KPS is using the same tactics and the violent protest will not be tolerated. You should blame the leader of the Self Determination Mr Kurti for the deaths of those two men. Violence meets violence everyone both Serb and Albanian now should understand that if you want assemble and protest peaceful by all means please do but it if your agenda is violence then there will be another needless case of lost lives. So for all those who will chime in saying you have rights to do as you want that is incorrect, the last security response was wake call to those who resort to violence. Mr Kurti called upon the Kosovo security force to join him well he got his answer.

RE:Matthew,
Dear Matthew,I had to reply to your comments as you always are one of the reasonable ones.My question about living in Kosova was addressed to all of us living abroad.As much as we love our countries we have to be honest with the fact that life outside Serbia and Kosova it is much better.Once the children come to the world it is very difficult to decide whether to go back to Kosova or to your country Serbia.You are saying that you live in San Fransisco,so for you to leave all that beauty for Balkans it is very difficult.So, for you to buy a summer house in Kosova I don't think it is a good idea.Now because of this circus about the solution for Kosova maybe you feel homesick or you feel the need to defend your country.If Kosova becomes independent,which is most likely,you and all other Serbian Citizens are welcome to visit your important and historic places.Life goes on.Greeks still talk about Istanbul,Izmir and other now Turkish cities,they can still go to Istanbul and other places to visit their historical important places.What I dislike in here is that some of commentators are very very rude towards Kosovan Albanians.They have diffiulties to except the fact that Kosovan Albanians are more mature,intelligent,more europian then before.I come from town called Peja where 30% of population were Serbs and Montenegrin.80% of houses were burnt,thousands of citizens were killed during the war.Now the town is 99% Kosovan albanians,serbs sold the flats long time ago,for citizens of Peja it is very difficult to accept the fact that one day they will live together with serbs after that scenario in 1999 when alot of nonalbanians from Peja were involved in you know what.Commentators in this site are forgetting what caused this situation now and sometimes are over confident that the outcome will be very positive for them.Dear Matthew if you come to London I will buy you a drink as we both know the possible outcome.See you soon my friend, a cold beer in of the pubs in London has your name on it.Cheerio.

Louie,

I absolutely sympathize with Albanians and what you suffered. My family is all in Krajina and Dalmatia in Croatia. My wife personally experienced ethnic cleansing, and afterwards had to live day to day in plain view of the snipers on the Croatia side of the river. You could see them from the kitchen window. I know full well how the Ustashe treated Serbs in WWII, so I can only imagine that Albanians feel very much the same towards Serbians as we Serbians often feel towards Croatians. I absolutely respect the Albanian viewpoint, and I know they feel the same about Independence that I feel about retaining our cultural heritage. Both feelings are valid and I do not believe its appropriate for either side to insult the other's belief system. I truly hope that we can find a compromise that respects these feelings on both sides and sets the foundation for peace and stability in the future, although I am pessimistic that such a solution based on compromise is possible at this time, when wounds are still so fresh in everyone's memory. Regardless, I will always promote Kosovo as the cradle of Serbian civilization and as I've said, I simply can not support complete indepedence for Kosovo at this time. I honestly wish I could. However, no one should confuse that with support of ethnic cleansing or the abuse of the Albanian population, in my mind those are separate issues.

I have some Croatian friends here in the States (despite my strong negative feelings toward the Ustashe), and they think I'm absolutely crazy for wanting to invest in real estate out there, or that I would want to live out there. My family has a rich history on the Coast (we were Knez's in Risan since the 10th century) and its beautiful there. My retirement savings (Social Security) will not go far in supporting me in my old age here in Silicon Valley where I live, so retiring to the coast is the logical thing to do. I feel very comfortable in the Balkans, I always wondered why I love coffee and bacon and cheese and grilled meat so much. Serbs are very emotional and out-going party fun loving kind of people, and I felt like I fit in for the first time in my life. So yeah, I put in for a transfer to our Brussels office so I could be closer to the Balkans and my investments there.

I travel to Europe a couple of times a year, although I generally go through Germany as I fly into Zagreb generally to visit my wife's family. I am sure that I will be in London at some point in the future though, and yeah, I'd love to have a drink with you. Same goes for any Albanian. The best we as individuals can do at this point in time is to create friendships on an individual basis and hope that our children have a brighter future then our parents. I can be contacted at lazslow@hotmail.com

Anyone on either side is free to send hate mail as well if you wish, however, please use facts and reason if you wish to debate me.