Two dead following Priština clashes

"Protest organizers say the self-rule envisioned for Kosovo's Serb minority could lead to the creation of a separate Serb entity within Kosovo."
But there is already a de facto separate Serb entity in the north!

What difference would a seperate Serb area of Kosovo make anyway? There is already a de facto seperation of the two comunities, does it make a real difference if the rest of the world recognise it or not? I don't think so.

gary, the same argument could be used for the Albanians.

"What difference would a seperate Albanian area of Kosovo make anyway? There is already a de facto seperation of the two communities (Kosovo and Serbia proper), does it make a real difference if the rest of the world recognises it or not? I don't think so"

Jeju, you miss the point the UN did reconfirm the whole of Kosovo & Metohija as Serbian in resolution 1244. Yes the whole world recognise that ther are 2 seperate areas within Kosovo & Metohija but it is all part of Serbia!!

For any partition of Serbia it will require Serbian consent - unless of course the US wish to remove their sui generis argument and illegally recognise the unilateral delaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija.

Russia's veto is a win-win for Russia. If the Russians veto in April what happens then? It puts the US on the back foot - do they;

A. Recognise an illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija - in which case pandora's box is open for Russia in any case it wants to regonise.

Or;
B. Does the US ignore the illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija and lose total credibility and withdraw PDQ (Pretty Damn Quick).

Like Blag says "messy" - I concur!!!

Looks like win-win is working for Russia - lets hope a win-win can be found for all the people of Serbia!

and yet again we have comments to which makes me discoforted to what main serbian side ahve to comment on, the fact and the truth is as pricnic says yes of course there is going to be win win senario but for Kosova and its people and not tiny bit for serbia it self, the fact and the matter is that two people deied last night, which makes me sad but in other hand it shows that there wont be chance going back and beeing ruled by serbs ever again, as is the will of Kosovars and not the serbian governt to dettermin the fouture of 2million, if you princip lowe,princip gary think know it all think it again,
i also would like to add that of course i condem any violence towards any race or human being but, but yesterday's police stance shows that there wont be any tolerence in violence towards any other minority, property, and after all its very disaponting to have civilian casualties but i repeat my self there wont be any tolarance in any part of Republic of Kosova, regardless of nationality.
So you princip could go on about 1244 and of course there would be objections to the Indipendant Kosova but after all it will be and who are we to care if Russia recognises us or not. serbian oppose but they oppose by their ignorance and ultra-nattional ideology us they dont have firm ground to claim Kosova to be under serbian opresion.
and of course you'll try and mention some illusion storys about Kosova being 'serbian land' it never was and never will be, wake up people !!!

artan:

expressing your wishful thinking is fine, and psychologially understandable.

but reality is something different.

as soon es it gets ugly... I will remind those who were cheering about the "triumph" when the Russians left KiM...,

that it was a very clever move.
they won´t be forced to fight albanians extremists. they will act as some kind of mediators in accordance with international law...

I just wait for the Albanians to cross the line... let´s wait a few weeks more...we can wait.

North Mitrovica is already Independent. It has been independent for 7 years. It has nothing to do with Pristina. The people who live there now fled to that area in fear of their lives. The govt in Pristina does not even acknowledge this let alone apologize for it. pristina says they are all war criminals.

The above words were from original posts on this site are by albanians. i changed 2 words around: Serb Albanian.

Very interesting no?

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH RUSSIAN FM LAVROV

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,464531,00.html

SPIEGEL: UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari's proposals on the future of Kosovo have been on the table since last weekend. President Putin has warned that this issue could trigger a serious crisis in relations between Russia and the EU. Do you truly intend to use your veto in the UN Security Council if Kosovo becomes de facto independent?

Lavrov: Putin never said that. Russia adheres strictly to all agreements on the matter of Kosovo -- UN Security Council Resolution 1244 and the subsequent documents drafted by the contact group. Much of that was never even implemented, such as the plan to bring back some of the Serb border troops.

SPIEGEL: That was never realistic.

Lavrov: The plan to return Serb refugees and other displaced Serbs was also never implemented. This is a disgrace for Europe. The Serbs are now the largest group of refugees on the continent. Our Western partners consistently argued that certain standards would have to be put in place before clarifying the status issue. Now we are told that the Albanian leadership in Kosovo can do nothing before it is assured that Kosovo will gain independence. At the last meeting of the contact group it was said that Ahtisaari's proposals should not be construed as an ultimatum, but as an offer to both sides to continue talks. Attempts to present these proposals to the Security Council right away are pointless and counterproductive. I cannot imagine how it can adopt a resolution that would not be acceptable to the Serbs.

SPIEGEL: Moscow has repeatedly made it clear, using a threatening tone, that Kosovo would set a precedent.

Lavrov: The Kosovo decision will certainly be a precedent. It would be the first time in the region's postwar history that independence would not be granted with the approval of both sides.

SPIEGEL: We don't believe that the positions of Kosovo Albanians and Serbs could be reconciled once again.

Lavrov: They should have thought about that before -- such as when they bombed Serbia without a mandate from the Security Council and attacked more than military targets.

SPIEGEL: It was Russia that stood in the way of a UN resolution at the time.

Lavrov: Nevertheless, what the West liked about Resolution 1244 was implemented, while the rest was not. They should have thought earlier about how to bring about reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians.

that it was a very clever move. they won´t be forced to fight albanians extremists
-----------------------------

Since when is it extremism to want to be master of your own fate?

As for the topic at hand. RIP brave Albanians. The sun has not dawned yet on the day Serbia's will to keep Kosovo is crushed. but soon..

I think the Russians would like the albanians to take up arms again so the US become overstretched with Kosovo, Iraq and afghanistan and in the future possibly Iran and Syria. Putin is going to win. How can Chechnya claim independance when russia will just veto it. So no territory within russia that wants to secede will ever get UNSC approval. If the US wont give abkhazia, ossetia and Transdenstir secession than the Russians wont give Kosovo.

jovan
of course the people you are refering to as 'extremist' will be the people that dont want to live under serbian, and ok there might be some legal issues to go through to get and indipendece Kosova, but what's missing in your comment is that the fact is the 2million people are going to be vanished or declare them self what they want. and lets be frank here we all know what that is, certanily not going back and join Belgrade.
onther fact there is no need actualy what of the protests when we realy think about it, the EU -SHBA, have so far supported the plan which technicly gives Kosova self rule, and after all thats wea are after, but of course serbian allie Russia is going to oppose, and of course we know and recognise that, but what effect is realy going to have on Kosova where its borders will be protected and controled by kosovars, will have the flag, antheme, culture, goverment, ect..after all serbia will object and object, but only to its negative future that is making for it self.
and ok we might have a tuff time to please everyone but at least we would ancoplish our goal- SELF RULE.
and you are right of course the 'extremisen' would be on both sides but lets hope the innocent people are kept away from this, and if people want to fight and die for a couse then its only fair to say that albanians have not inventing this and its been in humans since its creation and is happening around the world as we speak, but let me strees out as you seem very comforteable bringing the idea of 'extremisim' up, if you is not going to effact serbia as well you be very wrong to think that, and not just serbia but effect the whole balkan region yet again, and why if we ask again, of course serbs are not happy and always want more then what they can 'chew'!!

that was a foolish statement kreshnik. "Serbia's will to keep kosovo" will never be "crushed." it is ingrained in our mythic cycle. our DNA. serbs will never relinquish it and if its forcibly taken away serbia will make kosovo's life very difficult. it has the maens to so quite easily.

Jovan, we know Serbia can wait-it’s what they do best. A more objective way approaching the Kosova issue, its citizens, Albanian, Serbian…, and its future, might be to think of a solution and not a problem.

It is important to seriously consider the options offered by the UN and the international community. It is certainly the best option considering the circumstances. Delaying the Kosova matter will not be good for neither side. It is a well thought out proposal that will move the people of Kosova and the people of Serbia towards their future with the EU. As far as the “crossing the line” argument, I think we can all agree that the Balkans region has seen enough bloodshed and its time to move forward.

Artan, Glasgow and fellow ethnic-Albanians,

Realise that you are being led into the cul-de-sac of xenophobia by your ethnic leadership and in many ways directed by your US buddies.

Take the chance now to ensure win-win for everyones best interest and realise that negotiated compromise is the best option for all.

If you think plan A-thisarri fell short what do you think of any new plan? If there is no real negotiations and the US still push this through knowing what the Russians say and the fact that they have nothing to lose but all to gain by a veto then what will be the outcome. Again I repeat 2 options will be faced by the US and not Russia;

A. Recognise an ILLEGAL unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija - in which case pandora's box is open for Russia in any case it wants to regonise.

Or;
B. Does the US ignore the illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija and lose total credibility and withdraw PDQ (Pretty Damn Quick).

Equally bear in mind that Resolution 1244 will forever stand and with that in mind to quote Lavrov;

"Nevertheless, what the West liked about Resolution 1244 was implemented, while the rest was not. They should have thought earlier about how to bring about reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians"

In the future Serbia will be able to implement ALL aspects of 1244 that the US and UK got you guys signed upto!!! Serbia will have retained it's territorial integrity - it might not control all areas but will have a legal mechanism at any time in the future to ensure it's control. Who will invest in the South knowing this???

Look at what is possible with win-win;

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/pages/kosovo_tommorow/sub_links/15/15.htm

Take it now when the talks resume on the 21st Feb - the Serbian Leadership will be active partnesr in ensuring the talks do reach a win-win and will not walk from the talks or impose an unnatural deadline. The opportunity is there for the good of all the people of Serbia.

to kreshnik:

since when is it necessary to have independence in order to rule yourselves?
remember the term " broad autonomy"?

if you want everything, but a compromise, than you are an extremist. it´s that simple!

take a look on this site kosovocompromise.com you can learn a lot here!

artan:

you will have your self-rule, within Serbia. you are the one, who wants more than he can chew. yet, you just don´t get it!

bill: you discredit yourself by using the albanized version "kosova"...otherwise, if you are an Albanian, you shouldn´t hide behind "Bill"... and just to inform you, the opposite is quite right: it is simply wrong to hurry up artificially in a matter of that importance, there is definitely no need for quick solutions.
the only ones who have an interest in a quick solution are in fact the US...but, that shouldn´t be a serbian concern, right?

so, either Albanian or not, take a look at "kosovocompromise.com "

http://www.kosovocompromise.com

you can only learn...

these clashes show that the people of kosovo not only don't want to be ruled by serbs, the eu, the un, germany, croatia (if you read a different news article on this station), or even law itself. european powers simply don't see kosovo as ready to join the eu, unlike the rest of serbia. this is the ultimate issue here. the eu doesn't want the people of kosovo to run freely around its constituent countries. thus, the easiest solution for the eu is to let kosovo declare independence. this is a difficult situation, but it would define the boarders of the eu (not serbia, since this is really bigger than the serbia issue) in a more globally desired location.

billy...

www. kosovocompromise. com


afterwards, you won´t write about the " poeple of kosovo " ...you can talk about K-albanians... but if you speak about " the poeple" ...the name you should refer to is Serbia. can you dig it?

just forgot to add:

those clashes clearly show one thing:

how extremely misguided those K-albanians are... I´ve seen an old albanian extremist side-by-side with albin kurti... and he is simply is not capable of learning...instead he´s prolonging this hate towards the Serbs... yeah...it shows that the K-albanians simply don´t have real, responsible leaders!
but I am sure one day, they will have some. they still need time to get it.

I do not want to discuss with ultra nationalists but when I read their comments I just can not let go.

I get headache when I read Princip and Jovan talk about hate and xenophobia. Nationalist Serbs are the ones that have made hate and xenophobia a part of their chromosomes.

Imagine: Princip, Blag and Jovan ruling Serbia. The result: Another ethnic cleansing of Albanians.

Almost everything Serbs post here is filled with hate against Albanians. The most popular expression is “Ubij Siptari”(= Kill Albanians)

B92 today:
“Two were also sprayed on the local kindergarten, one is Cyrillic, reading, “Radovan Serb hero”, while the other written in Latin was a hate-message directed toward the Albanians.”

Watch what Serbia will do with Albanians if they get Kosovo back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8DkmS_rbY

Jovan is right, Albanians don't have real, responsible leaders.

Meanwhile the Serbs have plenty of them: Milosevic, Mladic, Karadzic, Arkan etc etc

"Serbia's will to keep kosovo" will never be "crushed." it is ingrained in our mythic cycle. our DNA.
-----------------------------

Then the Albanians must do the utmost to interrupt that 'mythic cycle' you speak of. So far, even though in reality the Albanians have far less myths about themselves than Serbs, it is the Serbs and the 'multi-culti' establishment who has made the Albanians interrupt their 'mythic cycle' (i would argue that they do no suffer from such an affliction).

Blag, forget about the Valley of the Blackbirds. Forget about the Churches. You've never visited them anyway. It aint your Jerusalem. You are not a JEW!The Albanians are not Palestinans.

Fuggetabouit

Jovan,
yuou seem so much obsessed by that site you keep on pasting evry post.

It's very old stuff, dismissed just after being published. The K-Albanians do not accept it. The Kosovo status is about the people who live in Kosovo, not in Serbia. You should keep that in mind. Or were you born after 1999?

Jovan,
just one more thing: that old "extremist" is the winner of a Sacharov price, he's named Kosovo's Mandela. And the young one has spent a long time in Milosevics'jail. That should tell you sth.
Be careful about your statements. As long as you don't abbandon that typical anti-Albanian forma mentis, which many pro Serb commentaries reflect here, you cannot expect any positive reaction by the Albanians.

Let's see....

Kosovo Serbs demonstrate earlier this week and Albanians play down the event, calling them delusional, misguided, extremists, nationalists, etc.

Albanians demonstrate, and they suddenly become heroes, martyrs, freedom fighters, visionaries, and oppressed peoples.

Ivanovic is a puppet of Belgrade, but Kurti is Che reincarnated. Am I right by this logic?

When in the history of international relations has a set of universal principles ever been divided between Albanians and everyone else?

Jovan,
Whether or not I refer to the region as Kosova or Kosovo appropriately is irrelevant, not what’s argued here, and certainly not your call. The proposal, for your information, was not based on an overnight decision, but took, in fact, months of preparation to find the best possible solution. And they DID. No one is arguing that there is a need to rush “artificially” into a solution, as you refer to it, but to suggest a delay and (“ wait for the Albanians to cross the line... let´s wait a few weeks more...we can wait”) as you argue, in hopes of waiting for something to happened is ill-intended and not right and can ONLY mean ONE thing;- Serbia does not have a clear answer for the UN’s proposal and has clung all hope in either Russia’s veto or possible Kosovar uprising. Let’s face it, Kosova is on a road to Independence and thanks to the International community providing peace and stability in for all citizens of Kosova, its citizens (K-Albanians and K-Serbs) will never fall victim to Belgrade’s hegemony.

Jovan,
It is amazing to observe the points you pick as arguable like “Albin Kurti… leader,” knowing well the answers to your own questions and suggestions. Serbia has had far worse leaders, wouldn't you agree? You know that Albin does not represent the government of Kosova nor is he a participant in the negotiations. Leaders of Kosova accepted the UN’s proposal, Serbia did not! Perhaps focusing on that and not on a small influences that do not represent the will of the majority of people might actually lead Albanians and Serbs somewhere in the future.

For You Mr. Jovan,

The yesterday's protests and Albin's goals are very correct. Athisaari's plan shall not contain discrimination for the K-Albanians. Why shall serbian community have more legal political, economic and social rights. By grounding this legal rights the Serbian government through their effective tool (K-serbs)will block future economic, political and social developments. Nevertheless, I hope the protests will go on and make necessary changes. You got to forget about Serbian Government ruling Kosovo again. They have lost every credibility in the K-albanian's eye. The actual problem is how to minimize serbian government's indirect influenc to the Kosovo future development.
There is no room to talk about Kosovo still remaning under Serbian Governemnt. Don't you damn see it that all developments so far are on the direction of an Independent State of Kosovo? If serbia cooperates with the Ahtisaari's plan they have a good chance to get closer to EU entrance and give further benefits to the K-Serbs, otherwise, man your Country will be so back that you would never imagine. The bad thing is that people of Serbia will experience sever consequences from isolation and secondly the potential regional economic development will fall due to the isolation fact and distabilized Serbia.

With respect

jovan
thats exactly the propaganda ive been listenning all my life and it just shows that you as a serb and me as an albaninan wont want to live next to each other to start of and forget beeing ruled and pushed around by you or belgrade, serbs as people are to emotional and think they know it all, and of course the ideology for us to coexist its a load of nonesense when it comes beeing looked down all your life, what you always forget to mention is that we nerver were or neither wanted to be part of YU it was imposed in 1912 by your frinds at the time UK-US now since that very day is been on going, we never had a chance to be heard, but thanks to your allies of 1912 its the time is comming for pay back, its the same as we were ignored for the last 90-100years now time has come for you to be ingnored and impose a solutions.
as to Win win thing tha Princip keeps bring it up, that does not exist, we know that and the world knows also that two parties are imposible to agree on something that is exeptiable from both sides.
as for you talking about leaders let me just quickly recap your recent leadership- for the last 30 years you people live in illusion world, dont have to go any further, YU befor the war and look at it tiny serbia now.even your own leaders didnt want any less but destroy the serbia and bring it the appaling state is now. think of your own leaders before you start judging others..

as much as it is fustrating to read your racist coments jovan it is also a reminder that why of course you'll never be and wanted as my neibourgh in a free Kosova, if all you have is hate and ultra-national ideology, you as serbs always looked at us as second class citizens, but not for the last 8y and never again.

now read this over and over again and if you get 1 % of it then you are doing well.

the link by the way was as expected propaganda as usual, what serbs do the best...

The Albanian response to the governing authorities in Kosovo reminds me of a song by 'THE WHO'( British rock group) and it goes something like this-"here comes the new boss-same as the old boss"

Hey ARtan
"kosovars, will have the flag, antheme"

As your guy Kurti said the other day. What's the big deal about flags and symbols? All football teams have them.

Albin Kurti's extreme views are well known. His violent approaches are analogues to some extent to some of the radical thinking in Serbia. His protests hasn't achieved a think, nor have they placed any fear in the fair and peaceful minded Serbs like myself. Therefore, it shouldn't get any attention whatsoever. Who should get an attention are the 2 victims who were lured by their ignorance into violent protests and have lost their lives as a result. The victim's parents and peaceful minded Albanians should call for banning this movement as it is clearly seen that it doesn't contribute anything to resolving the dispute in peaceful means.

Now to Blag,

Your assumption of my non-existence in one of your posts doesn't bother me at all. That's your personal opinion. What bothers me is your poor judgement and a belief that only individuals living in the States can write English well. The reason I why I haven't posted lately, is because I am busily running my own Language Institute here in Veternik. As you can see I work for a living using my North American acquired educational background and my proficiency in English and French.

On the political front, regardless whether I agree with you or not, it has come to my attention that you frequently bring up good points and of course disastrous ones. As a Serb, I will only remember your good points and I thank you for your efforts in trying to legitimize some important issues that we Kosmet's Serbs and Albanians are faced with.


Your and your friends constant calls for the Serbian Negotiating team to reject Ahtisari's proposal doesn't serve much to the aims of Serbs here. In fact, some of us Kosmet's Serbs, excluding Serbs from the north, find it as an attempt by the Belgrade to simply force a unilateral declaration and wash their hands from their moral responsibility and a false caring that Belgrade has shown for the Kosmet Serbs since the Milosevic days.

If Ahtisari's plan is indeed rejected by Belgrade, Kosmet within it's supervised democratic right, will be able to declare independence unilaterally. If that happens, Albanians will win more than what they are bargaining to this point for, Belgrade will nostalgically pretend it lost 15% of territory, but the life will go on ... The question is who will lose the most dear Blag? You personally won't lose much in New York. I am sure it will ultimately be us, or some of us Kosmet's Serbs who have chosen to stay here no matter what happens.

Your partition plan is utterly premature. It will not solve much but inspire others to do the same. Macedonia will fall into pieces, Montenegro will lose territory, Serbia itself will lose parts of the south and some portions of Vojvodina. In the end you'll do exactly what some Kosmet's Albanian extremists like Albin Kurti wants ... which is undoubtedly the Greater Albania.

Kosmet's independence is not bad at all if you think clearly and some of us Serbs who love Kosmet more than just rewarding her with emotional paragraphs in B92, will peacefully fight to fulfil all the rights of Kosmet's Serbs which are proposed in Ahtisari's proposal.

You constantly talk about crimes against us Serbs after 1999. I agree with you 100%. There have been crimes of rage all over Kosmet. No, crime is justifiable in my eyes whether it comes from Serbs or Albanians, but don't you ever think where it streamed from? I was here during the war sir. Our former Serbian soldiers burned half of Kosmet, they almost burned my home accidently. So, in revenge KLA came back and burned our homes. Former Serbian soldiers burned a countless number of mosques, KLA came back again and burned countless numbers of churches. Now you may be right, our churches are ancient, and according to your postings have a lot more historical value, but go and tell that to Albanian victims and you'll see what response you get.

And regardless what ours, or Albanian historians say, you have to look at the situation on the ground. The changing of demographics is a part of evolution, and you can assimilate only the people who want to be assimilated. Albanians do not want to be assimilated by Serbs. Therefore, is not only a just thing to do, but a moral obligation to recognize their strife for independence and at the same time bargain well and protect the remaining Serbs like myself by signing international agreements in a civilized manner.

To conclude, some of us will stay here no matter what is decided, but it breaks my heart to see some posters at B92 contribute even further to resentment with old fashion speeches. I wish you could all understand the complexity of the problem as Chedomir Jovanovic does.

Jovan:says:
"those clashes clearly show one thing:
how extremely misguided those K-albanians are... I´ve seen an old albanian extremist side-by-side with albin kurti... and he is simply is not capable of learning...instead he´s prolonging this hate towards the Serbs... yeah...it shows that the K-albanians simply don´t have real, responsible leaders!"

Jovo are you within your mental frame of mind when you write or you just write for the sake of writing something, and can't wait your post to be published by B-92 and have a selfasatisfaction with yourself, somehow that seems to make you proud of yourself.
And you go on and say
"but I am sure one day, they will have some. they still need time to get it."
Jovo, are you suggesting something what I am thinking you are? Because if you are, you are pathetic and sadly mistaken, it's over Jovo, for as long as there is even one albanian soul left.
Those dreams are over Jovo, come back to reality, Kosova will be independent, sober up.
I am sure a lot of Serbian posters here are ashamed by your post.
Peace and prosperity for all of us.

The report is about two people being dead.

Yet all the commentary is about the politics.

There were two others badly injured too.

The politics should be through negotiation and peaceful protest.

We should all give respect to those who died and sympathy to their families - whatever our politics.

No more casualties please !!!

And albanians have to understand that it is not possible to take independence from Serbija.
So Lavrov is right
http://www.nemtyrev.narod.ru

i fully agree with jovan. now the CG has awakened to the reality i think. in a flash the albanians can turn into wild...the serbs in the north staged a peaceful disciplined protest. the vetevendosje are in-organized and war freak individuals as seen in TV worldwide. and this is not the only time they did it. now the west is getting fed up. i pity the ones whose lives were wasted in a nonsense irresponsible undertaking.

Boris,

I would only agree with some of your reasoning in part with the following statement out everything you write;

"Your partition plan is utterly premature. It will not solve much but inspire others to do the same. Macedonia will fall into pieces, Montenegro will lose territory, Serbia itself will lose parts of the south and some portions of Vojvodina. In the end you'll do exactly what some Kosmet's Albanian extremists like Albin Kurti wants ... which is undoubtedly the Greater Albania.
"

- But who would want to agree to an illegal declaration of independence of Southern Kosovo & Metohija creating the scenario's you state might be prompted by - the US - do you think they wish to be associated in removing there last ounce of international credibility??? It is upto Russia and China to condider the final decision at the UN and is Serbia says it does not agree then I think we know what will occur at the security council - I guess Blag is not premature in condidering all options of consequences.

Beyond that 1244 will be intact and the UN/EU will have to implement the standards in the southern portion first before any future attempt of final solution. If you are indeed in the south then you will be very aware that KFOR has changed it's terms of engagement - if you are doubtful of the protection offered I can understand where you are coming from if you don't doubt your protection if Kosovo & metohija was indpendent. I have my doubts on your identity given the contradictions that you write. But rest assured as a Serb you interest are well protected in the Russian win-win veto position.

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Regards,

B92 Team

Boris,
I agree with your comment. Extremism, hopefully, will be a thing of the past, and as you say, “no crime is justifiable…whether it comes from Serbs or Albanians.” For those who did commit crimes against humans, be it Serbs, Albanians, or others, in time justice will ultimately prevail. As for what the future holds for the region and its people, one could hope for it to be better than the past.

oh yes...that´s quite what I expected, even just a little bit better...


it takes too much time to respond on each and every one of you, so, I´ll cut it short:

all you are bringing up, simply all of it, is false!

I have neither made any racist -statements ( if so I would be ashamed! ) it´s quite the opposite, the Albanians here, not all, but most of them are writing in a very immature way, guided by their also very immature dream of being the descendants of the Illyrians...what they simply are not, believing in their myths being told by their spin-doctors..., refering to times already years ago, not capable of noticing the most simple realities...

guys, please, who is self-righteous here? who likes to read the own comments...

you don´t even need Serbs to insult you, because are degrading youselves with your comments, since all you are presenting is: allegations, morally doubtful (pseudo)political correctness and simple ignorance.

every time I read it and I ask my self, where is their pride, why are they downgrading themselves on and on...?

calling me a racist, is simply dumb and dull...sorry, I have to say it!

by causing so much disturbance I am getting the impression, it must have been right, what I had written...

just one more thing:
C. Jovanovic says his opinion, and he can say it, since he lives in a democratic society, ...K-albanians do not even dare to say somthing that is not fitting the "mainstream"-independence-garbage, ...because they would be killed as traitors...

and you have the guts to call me a dreamer?

I am honestly sorry for you!

in the end, whoever doesn´t like what he can read here is free to post on other sites, even albanian sites if you want, ...nobody is forcing you to read and post here...

once again something I posted earlier, since you guys are not responding to everything.

you are only responding to what fits ( in your flawed view ) to your propaganda...

so, read this properly before you mention Milosevic again and again, and bore us others here to death...

here it comes: I posted it a few days ago, but no Albanian responded...

"it´s a stone-old tactic ... discrediting others by putting them into the same corner with Milosevic ... do you really believe this cheap trick works? you must be quite naive!

I have nothing to do with Milosevic, and after you checked that link I provided, saying something like that only shows that you don´t know what you are talking about!"

Boris,

i have no doubt that you are Serb. i Live in Hajvali. Not very far from where you are. Actually to be precise, or if you are the Boris that ownes a language academy in Veternik, then, you may remember mi as Luk, i was one of your ex students in the French department back in the nineties. if I remember you well, you were very harsh, a true nightmare with your exams especially to few remaining Albanian students. You failed mi twice unfairly.

So, why should we believe that now you are this "fair and peaceful minded Serb".

i have followed your comments and i haven't even once seen you mention Kosova by it's real name. As long as Kosmet is only word for Kosova in your vocabulary, i sincerely doubt your fairnes.

i apologise if my comment is directed to a different Boris.

the authorities should learn that "NO PERMIT NO RALLY" is the best procedure to implement. the protest leader will be held responsible for any untoward incident caused by improper behavior by his protesters. the conditions should state the place and time of protest as well as the proper conduct. these will be signed by protest leader and police. this will serve as the rules of engagement. lack of responsibility from protesters side causes such chaos and wasted lives.

Lockman,

If Boris was a nightmare in your exams, I can understand why! You missed every capital letter in your sentences, brother.

Besides, what does fairness have to do with your exams and the current situation in Kosova.

I'd say Boris is the fairest of all posters at B92 and is totally irrelevant whether he calls it Kosova or Kosmet.

"if I remember you well, you were very harsh, a true nightmare with your exams especially to few remaining Albanian students. You failed me twice unfairly.

So, why should we believe that now you are this "fair and peaceful minded Serb".

i have followed your comments and i haven't even once seen you mention Kosova by it's real name. As long as Kosmet is only word for Kosova in your vocabulary, i sincerely doubt your fairnes. "
Lockman, Boris is the one Serb here who very strongly supports the Albanian cause the most on this site and he is constantly praised by the Albanian community!
I can believe he was a tough teacher, but you are saying that he failed you simply because you were Albanian?!?!
That led to me to think that maybe, just maybe, some Albanians misunderstand their Serb counter parts? Boris clearly falls on the Kosovo Independence side and just wants to live in peace with his Albanian neighbors, yet, here you are basically accussing him of systematically discriminating against the Albanian population! Is it possible that maybe we have a lot of these types of misunderstandings going on?

I wish you could all understand the complexity of the problem as Chedomir Jovanovic does.
(Boris, 12 February 2007, 00:21)

It is very complex and the way you portray it as black and white and the Kosovor Albanians extremist groups like the KLA and UCK only committed terrorist acts in "revenge" , nothing can be further from the truth.

The KLA and UCK was created and started the killing of Serbian and Albanian policeman in Kosovo , shooting of Serbian businessman and civilians, the Serbs were forced to move in the army to regain control of the province.

What I find avery amusing is that very early in the KLA insurgency, US Ambassador Holbrook is sitting with the KLA terrorists in a house having a tea party which was broadcast on CNN.

You continue with the false Albanian propoganda that it is all Slobodan Milosevic fault, need I remind you that Milosevic was first a communist, never a nationalist and finally not a war criminal and not even convicted in absentia.

Slobodan Milosevic was a product of Tito, pupil of Stambolic and the Yugoslav Communist Party. The real international criminal is Marshal Tito who sits buried in some Belgrade gravesite. The problems with the Kosovo began in 1946 after he seized power.

It is no coincidence that the Serbian population in Kosovo has declined substantially according to Yugoslav census since 1946. The Kosovo Albanians have engaged in a systematic program to cleanse the Serbs from Kosovo with intimidation and forced selling of property since 1946.

I m not suprised what happened in prishtina last week, you know what? because Ukraine Police were there and is not a first time they are doing like that, I dont know why, I dont think they dont have an exprience but I think they learn in school and they have same training like Serbian Milicia. And Jovan, maybe we are naive but we are clean and honest, we are not dirty with blood we never killed children and women, but you did and i dont wanna go further, i just wanna say than naive or not, smart or stupit, whatever you can say, Kosova is 95%Albanian and doesnt matter if good or bad we are majority and we are gonna make rules, because we paid the price for that, and nobody cares about your mythology and history because reality is different and belive me i know is very difficult for you to understand and accept but is better now than later and is nothing bad if you apologize what your leaders did, because you will feel better and will be easyer for you to accept the reality and will be easyer for us too, because you are still acting so bad and we never can accept you like this so be human Jovan and apologize first and after that we maybe can talk and you can call us naiv and whatever you wanna, and yes Kosova could be in your history but not in reality we are way far from each other.

"Protest organizers say the self-rule envisioned for Kosovo's Serb minority could lead to the creation of a separate Serb entity within Kosovo."
But there is already a de facto separate Serb entity in the north!

What difference would a seperate Serb area of Kosovo make anyway? There is already a de facto seperation of the two comunities, does it make a real difference if the rest of the world recognise it or not? I don't think so.

gary, the same argument could be used for the Albanians.

"What difference would a seperate Albanian area of Kosovo make anyway? There is already a de facto seperation of the two communities (Kosovo and Serbia proper), does it make a real difference if the rest of the world recognises it or not? I don't think so"

Jeju, you miss the point the UN did reconfirm the whole of Kosovo & Metohija as Serbian in resolution 1244. Yes the whole world recognise that ther are 2 seperate areas within Kosovo & Metohija but it is all part of Serbia!!

For any partition of Serbia it will require Serbian consent - unless of course the US wish to remove their sui generis argument and illegally recognise the unilateral delaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija.

Russia's veto is a win-win for Russia. If the Russians veto in April what happens then? It puts the US on the back foot - do they;

A. Recognise an illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija - in which case pandora's box is open for Russia in any case it wants to regonise.

Or;
B. Does the US ignore the illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija and lose total credibility and withdraw PDQ (Pretty Damn Quick).

Like Blag says "messy" - I concur!!!

Looks like win-win is working for Russia - lets hope a win-win can be found for all the people of Serbia!

and yet again we have comments to which makes me discoforted to what main serbian side ahve to comment on, the fact and the truth is as pricnic says yes of course there is going to be win win senario but for Kosova and its people and not tiny bit for serbia it self, the fact and the matter is that two people deied last night, which makes me sad but in other hand it shows that there wont be chance going back and beeing ruled by serbs ever again, as is the will of Kosovars and not the serbian governt to dettermin the fouture of 2million, if you princip lowe,princip gary think know it all think it again,
i also would like to add that of course i condem any violence towards any race or human being but, but yesterday's police stance shows that there wont be any tolerence in violence towards any other minority, property, and after all its very disaponting to have civilian casualties but i repeat my self there wont be any tolarance in any part of Republic of Kosova, regardless of nationality.
So you princip could go on about 1244 and of course there would be objections to the Indipendant Kosova but after all it will be and who are we to care if Russia recognises us or not. serbian oppose but they oppose by their ignorance and ultra-nattional ideology us they dont have firm ground to claim Kosova to be under serbian opresion.
and of course you'll try and mention some illusion storys about Kosova being 'serbian land' it never was and never will be, wake up people !!!

artan:

expressing your wishful thinking is fine, and psychologially understandable.

but reality is something different.

as soon es it gets ugly... I will remind those who were cheering about the "triumph" when the Russians left KiM...,

that it was a very clever move.
they won´t be forced to fight albanians extremists. they will act as some kind of mediators in accordance with international law...

I just wait for the Albanians to cross the line... let´s wait a few weeks more...we can wait.

North Mitrovica is already Independent. It has been independent for 7 years. It has nothing to do with Pristina. The people who live there now fled to that area in fear of their lives. The govt in Pristina does not even acknowledge this let alone apologize for it. pristina says they are all war criminals.

The above words were from original posts on this site are by albanians. i changed 2 words around: Serb Albanian.

Very interesting no?

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH RUSSIAN FM LAVROV

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,464531,00.html

SPIEGEL: UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari's proposals on the future of Kosovo have been on the table since last weekend. President Putin has warned that this issue could trigger a serious crisis in relations between Russia and the EU. Do you truly intend to use your veto in the UN Security Council if Kosovo becomes de facto independent?

Lavrov: Putin never said that. Russia adheres strictly to all agreements on the matter of Kosovo -- UN Security Council Resolution 1244 and the subsequent documents drafted by the contact group. Much of that was never even implemented, such as the plan to bring back some of the Serb border troops.

SPIEGEL: That was never realistic.

Lavrov: The plan to return Serb refugees and other displaced Serbs was also never implemented. This is a disgrace for Europe. The Serbs are now the largest group of refugees on the continent. Our Western partners consistently argued that certain standards would have to be put in place before clarifying the status issue. Now we are told that the Albanian leadership in Kosovo can do nothing before it is assured that Kosovo will gain independence. At the last meeting of the contact group it was said that Ahtisaari's proposals should not be construed as an ultimatum, but as an offer to both sides to continue talks. Attempts to present these proposals to the Security Council right away are pointless and counterproductive. I cannot imagine how it can adopt a resolution that would not be acceptable to the Serbs.

SPIEGEL: Moscow has repeatedly made it clear, using a threatening tone, that Kosovo would set a precedent.

Lavrov: The Kosovo decision will certainly be a precedent. It would be the first time in the region's postwar history that independence would not be granted with the approval of both sides.

SPIEGEL: We don't believe that the positions of Kosovo Albanians and Serbs could be reconciled once again.

Lavrov: They should have thought about that before -- such as when they bombed Serbia without a mandate from the Security Council and attacked more than military targets.

SPIEGEL: It was Russia that stood in the way of a UN resolution at the time.

Lavrov: Nevertheless, what the West liked about Resolution 1244 was implemented, while the rest was not. They should have thought earlier about how to bring about reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians.

that it was a very clever move. they won´t be forced to fight albanians extremists
-----------------------------

Since when is it extremism to want to be master of your own fate?

As for the topic at hand. RIP brave Albanians. The sun has not dawned yet on the day Serbia's will to keep Kosovo is crushed. but soon..

I think the Russians would like the albanians to take up arms again so the US become overstretched with Kosovo, Iraq and afghanistan and in the future possibly Iran and Syria. Putin is going to win. How can Chechnya claim independance when russia will just veto it. So no territory within russia that wants to secede will ever get UNSC approval. If the US wont give abkhazia, ossetia and Transdenstir secession than the Russians wont give Kosovo.

jovan
of course the people you are refering to as 'extremist' will be the people that dont want to live under serbian, and ok there might be some legal issues to go through to get and indipendece Kosova, but what's missing in your comment is that the fact is the 2million people are going to be vanished or declare them self what they want. and lets be frank here we all know what that is, certanily not going back and join Belgrade.
onther fact there is no need actualy what of the protests when we realy think about it, the EU -SHBA, have so far supported the plan which technicly gives Kosova self rule, and after all thats wea are after, but of course serbian allie Russia is going to oppose, and of course we know and recognise that, but what effect is realy going to have on Kosova where its borders will be protected and controled by kosovars, will have the flag, antheme, culture, goverment, ect..after all serbia will object and object, but only to its negative future that is making for it self.
and ok we might have a tuff time to please everyone but at least we would ancoplish our goal- SELF RULE.
and you are right of course the 'extremisen' would be on both sides but lets hope the innocent people are kept away from this, and if people want to fight and die for a couse then its only fair to say that albanians have not inventing this and its been in humans since its creation and is happening around the world as we speak, but let me strees out as you seem very comforteable bringing the idea of 'extremisim' up, if you is not going to effact serbia as well you be very wrong to think that, and not just serbia but effect the whole balkan region yet again, and why if we ask again, of course serbs are not happy and always want more then what they can 'chew'!!

that was a foolish statement kreshnik. "Serbia's will to keep kosovo" will never be "crushed." it is ingrained in our mythic cycle. our DNA. serbs will never relinquish it and if its forcibly taken away serbia will make kosovo's life very difficult. it has the maens to so quite easily.

Jovan, we know Serbia can wait-it’s what they do best. A more objective way approaching the Kosova issue, its citizens, Albanian, Serbian…, and its future, might be to think of a solution and not a problem.

It is important to seriously consider the options offered by the UN and the international community. It is certainly the best option considering the circumstances. Delaying the Kosova matter will not be good for neither side. It is a well thought out proposal that will move the people of Kosova and the people of Serbia towards their future with the EU. As far as the “crossing the line” argument, I think we can all agree that the Balkans region has seen enough bloodshed and its time to move forward.

Artan, Glasgow and fellow ethnic-Albanians,

Realise that you are being led into the cul-de-sac of xenophobia by your ethnic leadership and in many ways directed by your US buddies.

Take the chance now to ensure win-win for everyones best interest and realise that negotiated compromise is the best option for all.

If you think plan A-thisarri fell short what do you think of any new plan? If there is no real negotiations and the US still push this through knowing what the Russians say and the fact that they have nothing to lose but all to gain by a veto then what will be the outcome. Again I repeat 2 options will be faced by the US and not Russia;

A. Recognise an ILLEGAL unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija - in which case pandora's box is open for Russia in any case it wants to regonise.

Or;
B. Does the US ignore the illegal unilateral declaration of a partitioned Southern Kosovo & Metohija and lose total credibility and withdraw PDQ (Pretty Damn Quick).

Equally bear in mind that Resolution 1244 will forever stand and with that in mind to quote Lavrov;

"Nevertheless, what the West liked about Resolution 1244 was implemented, while the rest was not. They should have thought earlier about how to bring about reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians"

In the future Serbia will be able to implement ALL aspects of 1244 that the US and UK got you guys signed upto!!! Serbia will have retained it's territorial integrity - it might not control all areas but will have a legal mechanism at any time in the future to ensure it's control. Who will invest in the South knowing this???

Look at what is possible with win-win;

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/pages/kosovo_tommorow/sub_links/15/15.htm

Take it now when the talks resume on the 21st Feb - the Serbian Leadership will be active partnesr in ensuring the talks do reach a win-win and will not walk from the talks or impose an unnatural deadline. The opportunity is there for the good of all the people of Serbia.

to kreshnik:

since when is it necessary to have independence in order to rule yourselves?
remember the term " broad autonomy"?

if you want everything, but a compromise, than you are an extremist. it´s that simple!

take a look on this site kosovocompromise.com you can learn a lot here!

artan:

you will have your self-rule, within Serbia. you are the one, who wants more than he can chew. yet, you just don´t get it!

bill: you discredit yourself by using the albanized version "kosova"...otherwise, if you are an Albanian, you shouldn´t hide behind "Bill"... and just to inform you, the opposite is quite right: it is simply wrong to hurry up artificially in a matter of that importance, there is definitely no need for quick solutions.
the only ones who have an interest in a quick solution are in fact the US...but, that shouldn´t be a serbian concern, right?

so, either Albanian or not, take a look at "kosovocompromise.com "

http://www.kosovocompromise.com

you can only learn...

these clashes show that the people of kosovo not only don't want to be ruled by serbs, the eu, the un, germany, croatia (if you read a different news article on this station), or even law itself. european powers simply don't see kosovo as ready to join the eu, unlike the rest of serbia. this is the ultimate issue here. the eu doesn't want the people of kosovo to run freely around its constituent countries. thus, the easiest solution for the eu is to let kosovo declare independence. this is a difficult situation, but it would define the boarders of the eu (not serbia, since this is really bigger than the serbia issue) in a more globally desired location.

billy...

www. kosovocompromise. com


afterwards, you won´t write about the " poeple of kosovo " ...you can talk about K-albanians... but if you speak about " the poeple" ...the name you should refer to is Serbia. can you dig it?

just forgot to add:

those clashes clearly show one thing:

how extremely misguided those K-albanians are... I´ve seen an old albanian extremist side-by-side with albin kurti... and he is simply is not capable of learning...instead he´s prolonging this hate towards the Serbs... yeah...it shows that the K-albanians simply don´t have real, responsible leaders!
but I am sure one day, they will have some. they still need time to get it.

I do not want to discuss with ultra nationalists but when I read their comments I just can not let go.

I get headache when I read Princip and Jovan talk about hate and xenophobia. Nationalist Serbs are the ones that have made hate and xenophobia a part of their chromosomes.

Imagine: Princip, Blag and Jovan ruling Serbia. The result: Another ethnic cleansing of Albanians.

Almost everything Serbs post here is filled with hate against Albanians. The most popular expression is “Ubij Siptari”(= Kill Albanians)

B92 today:
“Two were also sprayed on the local kindergarten, one is Cyrillic, reading, “Radovan Serb hero”, while the other written in Latin was a hate-message directed toward the Albanians.”

Watch what Serbia will do with Albanians if they get Kosovo back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8DkmS_rbY

Jovan is right, Albanians don't have real, responsible leaders.

Meanwhile the Serbs have plenty of them: Milosevic, Mladic, Karadzic, Arkan etc etc

"Serbia's will to keep kosovo" will never be "crushed." it is ingrained in our mythic cycle. our DNA.
-----------------------------

Then the Albanians must do the utmost to interrupt that 'mythic cycle' you speak of. So far, even though in reality the Albanians have far less myths about themselves than Serbs, it is the Serbs and the 'multi-culti' establishment who has made the Albanians interrupt their 'mythic cycle' (i would argue that they do no suffer from such an affliction).

Blag, forget about the Valley of the Blackbirds. Forget about the Churches. You've never visited them anyway. It aint your Jerusalem. You are not a JEW!The Albanians are not Palestinans.

Fuggetabouit

Jovan,
yuou seem so much obsessed by that site you keep on pasting evry post.

It's very old stuff, dismissed just after being published. The K-Albanians do not accept it. The Kosovo status is about the people who live in Kosovo, not in Serbia. You should keep that in mind. Or were you born after 1999?

Jovan,
just one more thing: that old "extremist" is the winner of a Sacharov price, he's named Kosovo's Mandela. And the young one has spent a long time in Milosevics'jail. That should tell you sth.
Be careful about your statements. As long as you don't abbandon that typical anti-Albanian forma mentis, which many pro Serb commentaries reflect here, you cannot expect any positive reaction by the Albanians.

Let's see....

Kosovo Serbs demonstrate earlier this week and Albanians play down the event, calling them delusional, misguided, extremists, nationalists, etc.

Albanians demonstrate, and they suddenly become heroes, martyrs, freedom fighters, visionaries, and oppressed peoples.

Ivanovic is a puppet of Belgrade, but Kurti is Che reincarnated. Am I right by this logic?

When in the history of international relations has a set of universal principles ever been divided between Albanians and everyone else?

Jovan,
Whether or not I refer to the region as Kosova or Kosovo appropriately is irrelevant, not what’s argued here, and certainly not your call. The proposal, for your information, was not based on an overnight decision, but took, in fact, months of preparation to find the best possible solution. And they DID. No one is arguing that there is a need to rush “artificially” into a solution, as you refer to it, but to suggest a delay and (“ wait for the Albanians to cross the line... let´s wait a few weeks more...we can wait”) as you argue, in hopes of waiting for something to happened is ill-intended and not right and can ONLY mean ONE thing;- Serbia does not have a clear answer for the UN’s proposal and has clung all hope in either Russia’s veto or possible Kosovar uprising. Let’s face it, Kosova is on a road to Independence and thanks to the International community providing peace and stability in for all citizens of Kosova, its citizens (K-Albanians and K-Serbs) will never fall victim to Belgrade’s hegemony.

Jovan,
It is amazing to observe the points you pick as arguable like “Albin Kurti… leader,” knowing well the answers to your own questions and suggestions. Serbia has had far worse leaders, wouldn't you agree? You know that Albin does not represent the government of Kosova nor is he a participant in the negotiations. Leaders of Kosova accepted the UN’s proposal, Serbia did not! Perhaps focusing on that and not on a small influences that do not represent the will of the majority of people might actually lead Albanians and Serbs somewhere in the future.

For You Mr. Jovan,

The yesterday's protests and Albin's goals are very correct. Athisaari's plan shall not contain discrimination for the K-Albanians. Why shall serbian community have more legal political, economic and social rights. By grounding this legal rights the Serbian government through their effective tool (K-serbs)will block future economic, political and social developments. Nevertheless, I hope the protests will go on and make necessary changes. You got to forget about Serbian Government ruling Kosovo again. They have lost every credibility in the K-albanian's eye. The actual problem is how to minimize serbian government's indirect influenc to the Kosovo future development.
There is no room to talk about Kosovo still remaning under Serbian Governemnt. Don't you damn see it that all developments so far are on the direction of an Independent State of Kosovo? If serbia cooperates with the Ahtisaari's plan they have a good chance to get closer to EU entrance and give further benefits to the K-Serbs, otherwise, man your Country will be so back that you would never imagine. The bad thing is that people of Serbia will experience sever consequences from isolation and secondly the potential regional economic development will fall due to the isolation fact and distabilized Serbia.

With respect

jovan
thats exactly the propaganda ive been listenning all my life and it just shows that you as a serb and me as an albaninan wont want to live next to each other to start of and forget beeing ruled and pushed around by you or belgrade, serbs as people are to emotional and think they know it all, and of course the ideology for us to coexist its a load of nonesense when it comes beeing looked down all your life, what you always forget to mention is that we nerver were or neither wanted to be part of YU it was imposed in 1912 by your frinds at the time UK-US now since that very day is been on going, we never had a chance to be heard, but thanks to your allies of 1912 its the time is comming for pay back, its the same as we were ignored for the last 90-100years now time has come for you to be ingnored and impose a solutions.
as to Win win thing tha Princip keeps bring it up, that does not exist, we know that and the world knows also that two parties are imposible to agree on something that is exeptiable from both sides.
as for you talking about leaders let me just quickly recap your recent leadership- for the last 30 years you people live in illusion world, dont have to go any further, YU befor the war and look at it tiny serbia now.even your own leaders didnt want any less but destroy the serbia and bring it the appaling state is now. think of your own leaders before you start judging others..

as much as it is fustrating to read your racist coments jovan it is also a reminder that why of course you'll never be and wanted as my neibourgh in a free Kosova, if all you have is hate and ultra-national ideology, you as serbs always looked at us as second class citizens, but not for the last 8y and never again.

now read this over and over again and if you get 1 % of it then you are doing well.

the link by the way was as expected propaganda as usual, what serbs do the best...

The Albanian response to the governing authorities in Kosovo reminds me of a song by 'THE WHO'( British rock group) and it goes something like this-"here comes the new boss-same as the old boss"

Hey ARtan
"kosovars, will have the flag, antheme"

As your guy Kurti said the other day. What's the big deal about flags and symbols? All football teams have them.

Albin Kurti's extreme views are well known. His violent approaches are analogues to some extent to some of the radical thinking in Serbia. His protests hasn't achieved a think, nor have they placed any fear in the fair and peaceful minded Serbs like myself. Therefore, it shouldn't get any attention whatsoever. Who should get an attention are the 2 victims who were lured by their ignorance into violent protests and have lost their lives as a result. The victim's parents and peaceful minded Albanians should call for banning this movement as it is clearly seen that it doesn't contribute anything to resolving the dispute in peaceful means.

Now to Blag,

Your assumption of my non-existence in one of your posts doesn't bother me at all. That's your personal opinion. What bothers me is your poor judgement and a belief that only individuals living in the States can write English well. The reason I why I haven't posted lately, is because I am busily running my own Language Institute here in Veternik. As you can see I work for a living using my North American acquired educational background and my proficiency in English and French.

On the political front, regardless whether I agree with you or not, it has come to my attention that you frequently bring up good points and of course disastrous ones. As a Serb, I will only remember your good points and I thank you for your efforts in trying to legitimize some important issues that we Kosmet's Serbs and Albanians are faced with.


Your and your friends constant calls for the Serbian Negotiating team to reject Ahtisari's proposal doesn't serve much to the aims of Serbs here. In fact, some of us Kosmet's Serbs, excluding Serbs from the north, find it as an attempt by the Belgrade to simply force a unilateral declaration and wash their hands from their moral responsibility and a false caring that Belgrade has shown for the Kosmet Serbs since the Milosevic days.

If Ahtisari's plan is indeed rejected by Belgrade, Kosmet within it's supervised democratic right, will be able to declare independence unilaterally. If that happens, Albanians will win more than what they are bargaining to this point for, Belgrade will nostalgically pretend it lost 15% of territory, but the life will go on ... The question is who will lose the most dear Blag? You personally won't lose much in New York. I am sure it will ultimately be us, or some of us Kosmet's Serbs who have chosen to stay here no matter what happens.

Your partition plan is utterly premature. It will not solve much but inspire others to do the same. Macedonia will fall into pieces, Montenegro will lose territory, Serbia itself will lose parts of the south and some portions of Vojvodina. In the end you'll do exactly what some Kosmet's Albanian extremists like Albin Kurti wants ... which is undoubtedly the Greater Albania.

Kosmet's independence is not bad at all if you think clearly and some of us Serbs who love Kosmet more than just rewarding her with emotional paragraphs in B92, will peacefully fight to fulfil all the rights of Kosmet's Serbs which are proposed in Ahtisari's proposal.

You constantly talk about crimes against us Serbs after 1999. I agree with you 100%. There have been crimes of rage all over Kosmet. No, crime is justifiable in my eyes whether it comes from Serbs or Albanians, but don't you ever think where it streamed from? I was here during the war sir. Our former Serbian soldiers burned half of Kosmet, they almost burned my home accidently. So, in revenge KLA came back and burned our homes. Former Serbian soldiers burned a countless number of mosques, KLA came back again and burned countless numbers of churches. Now you may be right, our churches are ancient, and according to your postings have a lot more historical value, but go and tell that to Albanian victims and you'll see what response you get.

And regardless what ours, or Albanian historians say, you have to look at the situation on the ground. The changing of demographics is a part of evolution, and you can assimilate only the people who want to be assimilated. Albanians do not want to be assimilated by Serbs. Therefore, is not only a just thing to do, but a moral obligation to recognize their strife for independence and at the same time bargain well and protect the remaining Serbs like myself by signing international agreements in a civilized manner.

To conclude, some of us will stay here no matter what is decided, but it breaks my heart to see some posters at B92 contribute even further to resentment with old fashion speeches. I wish you could all understand the complexity of the problem as Chedomir Jovanovic does.

Jovan:says:
"those clashes clearly show one thing:
how extremely misguided those K-albanians are... I´ve seen an old albanian extremist side-by-side with albin kurti... and he is simply is not capable of learning...instead he´s prolonging this hate towards the Serbs... yeah...it shows that the K-albanians simply don´t have real, responsible leaders!"

Jovo are you within your mental frame of mind when you write or you just write for the sake of writing something, and can't wait your post to be published by B-92 and have a selfasatisfaction with yourself, somehow that seems to make you proud of yourself.
And you go on and say
"but I am sure one day, they will have some. they still need time to get it."
Jovo, are you suggesting something what I am thinking you are? Because if you are, you are pathetic and sadly mistaken, it's over Jovo, for as long as there is even one albanian soul left.
Those dreams are over Jovo, come back to reality, Kosova will be independent, sober up.
I am sure a lot of Serbian posters here are ashamed by your post.
Peace and prosperity for all of us.

The report is about two people being dead.

Yet all the commentary is about the politics.

There were two others badly injured too.

The politics should be through negotiation and peaceful protest.

We should all give respect to those who died and sympathy to their families - whatever our politics.

No more casualties please !!!

And albanians have to understand that it is not possible to take independence from Serbija.
So Lavrov is right
http://www.nemtyrev.narod.ru

i fully agree with jovan. now the CG has awakened to the reality i think. in a flash the albanians can turn into wild...the serbs in the north staged a peaceful disciplined protest. the vetevendosje are in-organized and war freak individuals as seen in TV worldwide. and this is not the only time they did it. now the west is getting fed up. i pity the ones whose lives were wasted in a nonsense irresponsible undertaking.

Boris,

I would only agree with some of your reasoning in part with the following statement out everything you write;

"Your partition plan is utterly premature. It will not solve much but inspire others to do the same. Macedonia will fall into pieces, Montenegro will lose territory, Serbia itself will lose parts of the south and some portions of Vojvodina. In the end you'll do exactly what some Kosmet's Albanian extremists like Albin Kurti wants ... which is undoubtedly the Greater Albania.
"

- But who would want to agree to an illegal declaration of independence of Southern Kosovo & Metohija creating the scenario's you state might be prompted by - the US - do you think they wish to be associated in removing there last ounce of international credibility??? It is upto Russia and China to condider the final decision at the UN and is Serbia says it does not agree then I think we know what will occur at the security council - I guess Blag is not premature in condidering all options of consequences.

Beyond that 1244 will be intact and the UN/EU will have to implement the standards in the southern portion first before any future attempt of final solution. If you are indeed in the south then you will be very aware that KFOR has changed it's terms of engagement - if you are doubtful of the protection offered I can understand where you are coming from if you don't doubt your protection if Kosovo & metohija was indpendent. I have my doubts on your identity given the contradictions that you write. But rest assured as a Serb you interest are well protected in the Russian win-win veto position.

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B92 Team

Boris,
I agree with your comment. Extremism, hopefully, will be a thing of the past, and as you say, “no crime is justifiable…whether it comes from Serbs or Albanians.” For those who did commit crimes against humans, be it Serbs, Albanians, or others, in time justice will ultimately prevail. As for what the future holds for the region and its people, one could hope for it to be better than the past.

oh yes...that´s quite what I expected, even just a little bit better...


it takes too much time to respond on each and every one of you, so, I´ll cut it short:

all you are bringing up, simply all of it, is false!

I have neither made any racist -statements ( if so I would be ashamed! ) it´s quite the opposite, the Albanians here, not all, but most of them are writing in a very immature way, guided by their also very immature dream of being the descendants of the Illyrians...what they simply are not, believing in their myths being told by their spin-doctors..., refering to times already years ago, not capable of noticing the most simple realities...

guys, please, who is self-righteous here? who likes to read the own comments...

you don´t even need Serbs to insult you, because are degrading youselves with your comments, since all you are presenting is: allegations, morally doubtful (pseudo)political correctness and simple ignorance.

every time I read it and I ask my self, where is their pride, why are they downgrading themselves on and on...?

calling me a racist, is simply dumb and dull...sorry, I have to say it!

by causing so much disturbance I am getting the impression, it must have been right, what I had written...

just one more thing:
C. Jovanovic says his opinion, and he can say it, since he lives in a democratic society, ...K-albanians do not even dare to say somthing that is not fitting the "mainstream"-independence-garbage, ...because they would be killed as traitors...

and you have the guts to call me a dreamer?

I am honestly sorry for you!

in the end, whoever doesn´t like what he can read here is free to post on other sites, even albanian sites if you want, ...nobody is forcing you to read and post here...

once again something I posted earlier, since you guys are not responding to everything.

you are only responding to what fits ( in your flawed view ) to your propaganda...

so, read this properly before you mention Milosevic again and again, and bore us others here to death...

here it comes: I posted it a few days ago, but no Albanian responded...

"it´s a stone-old tactic ... discrediting others by putting them into the same corner with Milosevic ... do you really believe this cheap trick works? you must be quite naive!

I have nothing to do with Milosevic, and after you checked that link I provided, saying something like that only shows that you don´t know what you are talking about!"

Boris,

i have no doubt that you are Serb. i Live in Hajvali. Not very far from where you are. Actually to be precise, or if you are the Boris that ownes a language academy in Veternik, then, you may remember mi as Luk, i was one of your ex students in the French department back in the nineties. if I remember you well, you were very harsh, a true nightmare with your exams especially to few remaining Albanian students. You failed mi twice unfairly.

So, why should we believe that now you are this "fair and peaceful minded Serb".

i have followed your comments and i haven't even once seen you mention Kosova by it's real name. As long as Kosmet is only word for Kosova in your vocabulary, i sincerely doubt your fairnes.

i apologise if my comment is directed to a different Boris.

the authorities should learn that "NO PERMIT NO RALLY" is the best procedure to implement. the protest leader will be held responsible for any untoward incident caused by improper behavior by his protesters. the conditions should state the place and time of protest as well as the proper conduct. these will be signed by protest leader and police. this will serve as the rules of engagement. lack of responsibility from protesters side causes such chaos and wasted lives.

Lockman,

If Boris was a nightmare in your exams, I can understand why! You missed every capital letter in your sentences, brother.

Besides, what does fairness have to do with your exams and the current situation in Kosova.

I'd say Boris is the fairest of all posters at B92 and is totally irrelevant whether he calls it Kosova or Kosmet.

"if I remember you well, you were very harsh, a true nightmare with your exams especially to few remaining Albanian students. You failed me twice unfairly.

So, why should we believe that now you are this "fair and peaceful minded Serb".

i have followed your comments and i haven't even once seen you mention Kosova by it's real name. As long as Kosmet is only word for Kosova in your vocabulary, i sincerely doubt your fairnes. "
Lockman, Boris is the one Serb here who very strongly supports the Albanian cause the most on this site and he is constantly praised by the Albanian community!
I can believe he was a tough teacher, but you are saying that he failed you simply because you were Albanian?!?!
That led to me to think that maybe, just maybe, some Albanians misunderstand their Serb counter parts? Boris clearly falls on the Kosovo Independence side and just wants to live in peace with his Albanian neighbors, yet, here you are basically accussing him of systematically discriminating against the Albanian population! Is it possible that maybe we have a lot of these types of misunderstandings going on?

I wish you could all understand the complexity of the problem as Chedomir Jovanovic does.
(Boris, 12 February 2007, 00:21)

It is very complex and the way you portray it as black and white and the Kosovor Albanians extremist groups like the KLA and UCK only committed terrorist acts in "revenge" , nothing can be further from the truth.

The KLA and UCK was created and started the killing of Serbian and Albanian policeman in Kosovo , shooting of Serbian businessman and civilians, the Serbs were forced to move in the army to regain control of the province.

What I find avery amusing is that very early in the KLA insurgency, US Ambassador Holbrook is sitting with the KLA terrorists in a house having a tea party which was broadcast on CNN.

You continue with the false Albanian propoganda that it is all Slobodan Milosevic fault, need I remind you that Milosevic was first a communist, never a nationalist and finally not a war criminal and not even convicted in absentia.

Slobodan Milosevic was a product of Tito, pupil of Stambolic and the Yugoslav Communist Party. The real international criminal is Marshal Tito who sits buried in some Belgrade gravesite. The problems with the Kosovo began in 1946 after he seized power.

It is no coincidence that the Serbian population in Kosovo has declined substantially according to Yugoslav census since 1946. The Kosovo Albanians have engaged in a systematic program to cleanse the Serbs from Kosovo with intimidation and forced selling of property since 1946.

I m not suprised what happened in prishtina last week, you know what? because Ukraine Police were there and is not a first time they are doing like that, I dont know why, I dont think they dont have an exprience but I think they learn in school and they have same training like Serbian Milicia. And Jovan, maybe we are naive but we are clean and honest, we are not dirty with blood we never killed children and women, but you did and i dont wanna go further, i just wanna say than naive or not, smart or stupit, whatever you can say, Kosova is 95%Albanian and doesnt matter if good or bad we are majority and we are gonna make rules, because we paid the price for that, and nobody cares about your mythology and history because reality is different and belive me i know is very difficult for you to understand and accept but is better now than later and is nothing bad if you apologize what your leaders did, because you will feel better and will be easyer for you to accept the reality and will be easyer for us too, because you are still acting so bad and we never can accept you like this so be human Jovan and apologize first and after that we maybe can talk and you can call us naiv and whatever you wanna, and yes Kosova could be in your history but not in reality we are way far from each other.