19

Friday, 09.02.2007.

09:25

Ahtisaari postpones Vienna talks for February 21

UN Special Kosovo Envoy Martti Ahtisaari has put off negotiations until February 21, B92 has learned.

Izvor: B92

Ahtisaari postpones Vienna talks for February 21 IMAGE SOURCE
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19 Komentari

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Jarina

pre 17 godina

To Serbs who denies atrocities committed by Serbian machinery helped by Serb population in Kosova today your arrogance is a reason why Albanians even if they want to forgive you they cant!

I come here and try to build bridges for the better future with Serbian youth, I’m desperate to find the hate, threatens, madness, Serb who support criminals, people who change and deform history and non single comprehension of any kind.

Those Serb who committed crimes in Kosova one day will face Justice is normal NO?

List of 6200 Serbs who committed atrocities in Kosova is already made by Kosova Human Rights Council and list is growing every single day, our biggest surprise it was when we find that the most Serb in this list they are refugees in western countries.

Switzerland already identified 300 suspects, CH authorities signed with Çeku a return deal in Kosova after status for all Suspected Serbs, Uk authorities are working in this issue.

To Albanians just ignore some Serbian Comments they are blinded with hate, don’t bother for what they say you can give your opinion try to find those from LDP to change your views.

Some Serbian comments clearly support Serbian crimes In Kosova including: killings, beatings, torture, sexual assault, separation and disappearances, shootings, looting and destruction of property, and violations of medical neutrality only because those who committed are Serbs, you cant find any kind of sympathy for Albanian victims in they comments.

We Albanians can’t change something if Serbs doesn’t want to be changed still they heroes are Mladic, Karadzic, Milosevic, Arkan etc last election proved that.

Today we Albanians are in position to give the rights to our minorities and we should be open minded, generous and make them feel free and protected by any kind of discrimination.

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Sidi, you don't even live in Kosovo. I bet you own a bunch of resturants and send money to your family LOL. Now since kosovo is going to be independent as some you can leave the US and go home to Kosovo now? Or do you think those who are doing well for themselves will leave what they have built abroad and come back to Kosovo? Whoever answers yes is lying to himself. There nothing wrong with washing a car, at least he does not have to bribe someone to get a business.

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

Kreshnik

"If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety. "

- I would suggest that if 350,000 non-Albanians (Serbs, Roma, Jews & other ethnic groups) don't feel safe to come back is entirely based on the fact that you have KLA generals as your leadership - the ones whom you know have blood on their hands. It would be like suggesting to the Jews that they would be safe to return to a post war Germany governed by Nazi generals.

Regarding Milosovic (& his regime at the time) there was no evidence of a genocide in Kosovo & Metohija - even the ICTY had dropped that charge! If as you suggest all non-Albanians were involved in a highly militarised police state then I think you might have found many more civilians killed. The facts are that at most 2100 were killed in the 96-99 period and that more were killed as a result of NATO then any Serbian atrocities. Read the following link on a letter sent in to the Scotsman paper.

http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/03/milosevic-trial-farce-scotsman-letter.html

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

What serbs fail to grasp is that,one way or another Kosova will become independent. Even if Russia uses its veto, albanians will decalre independence anywayy and USA, UK , other western European cuntries, Albania, Macedonia etc. will recognise it.

Kosovo will still create its on symbols, anthem, flag etc.

At least then there will be not as many conditions and other things such as 'double majority'. The biggest losers will be the kosovan serbs.


And Serbia won't be able to do anything about it.

Serbia has no sovregnity over kosovo anyway now.

The only way serbia can get kosovo again is by war and by killing the 2 million albanians living there.

Now that we have tasted freedom, and we realised the conditions we were living pre-1999, our resolve for independece is even greater than it was before 1999.

Like it or not, kosovo is practically independent, and this year it will become official.

and one more point as far as serbian refugees are concered i'll copy one of my previous posts "I think its very important to state this.

No doubt that thousands of innocent serbs moved away from kosovo.

However, all those people that are commenting here who were living in kosovo before 1999 know that the majority of Serbs male adults worked for the police and the army during the 90s. There were no other jobs.

Thousands of them were directly working for the serbian regime during the 99 war, and they were inlvolved in the massacres and crimes against albanians. A lot of serbs who did not work for the police, they joined as reservist and paramilitary forces. Thats a fact. And a lot of the massacres were commited by local serbs and police.

I lived in prishtina, a good neighbourhood in a central location. There were 5 serb fimilies and about 20 albanian in my street. The adult males in 3 of those families were working for the police before and during the war. i remeber were clearly when they used to come back from the fighting in the evenings after commiting crimes. When NATO starting bombing it was my serbian nighbours with some of their paramilitary friends, who first shot one of my albanian because he had an albanian flad in his house, and then they robbed us and tolds us that we only have 5 minutes to leave for Albania of Macedonia and never come back because as they said ' This is serbia and we don't belong here'.

The fact is that this happened all across Kosovo, and outside Prishtina it was much worse.

The reason why my serbian male neighbours left and took their families with them, is because they knew what they had done to us and they knew they would have to pay for their crimes.

I would welcome back the other two innocent serbain families, but not the males from the other three.


If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety.

The conclusion is that from 200 000 or whatever serbs that have left kosovo, thousands of them have blood in their hands and are criminals, and they do not want to come back, because people like me would be more that happy to testify in court so they can pay for their crimes.
(kreshnik sh., 1 February 2007, 17:03)

Dragan

pre 17 godina

As for being landlocked, I suggest you look at a map, since Kosovo is landlocked. Furthermore, independence is something that you simply will not get, period. What will happen is that the status quo will remain for some time. In a few generations there will probably be another war and this time you won't have the US to help you.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Ah good to see you back too Sidi. I was wondering what happened to you. I'm happy to see your Big Bravado is also alive and well too. Not much really else to comment on since you're going to stick you your beliefs that Albanians are the richest, smartest, sexiest, and most productive people in the world, while Serbs are God's practical joke on humanity. At the very least, I gotta admire your steadfast faith in the USA. It's a rare thing these days to find anyone so enamoured with my country's foreign policies, so I should pat you on the back for that. But even though I disagree with about 99.99% of everything you say, I'm at least happy to know you're still around to spice up the conversation.

wat

pre 17 godina

Kosovo simply cannot function without Serbia’s
acceptance of the final solution. The only railroad and the only two road
links between Kosovo and the heart of Europe go across Serbia. All other
alternative transit routes, through Montenegro, Albania, or Macedonia, are
taking Kosovo away from Europe, not into it

Shukri Gashi

pre 17 godina

Blag, don't worry about us and our economy. We are trained to survive, don't forget we survived Miloshevic and its paramilitary machinery, so it will not be so difficult for us to build our life in our state. And by the way, why you are so concerned about how Kosova will live? Why you don't see for example Mascedonia and make any view on their economy, because we (Kosova) are not the only neighbor of Serbia?
Please Blag unload yourself from this disturbance?
We have to take care of our economy not you.
Stop interfere in others job!

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Glad to see that Blag has decided to join us again. Dissapointed to see that his delusions continue though. Kosovo will leave Serbia in the dust once independence is officially granted. It has the youngest population in Europe, and the most prosperous diaspora in the world, who pump billions into its economy, and will continue to do so even more. The average Kosovar in NYC owns 2 restaurants and a pizza parlor, while the average Serb washes his car. And Kosovo does not need landlocked tiny Serbia one bit, for it has Macedonia, Albania, and Montenegro, not to mention Turkey and Bulgaria further down the road, all ready to trade to the fullest. Keep on thinking up new theories, because the old ones you have had so far are getting really really old. And last but not least, on the Serbian recognition issue....if someone sues me and wins my car in the lawsuit, it doesn't matter if I recognize the ruling or not, my car is still gonne.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Blag has a great point. Kosovo must live with an accomodating Serbia as that will be its biggest trading partner. Many posters here have brushed away whatever Serbia thinks, claiming it can trade with Albania, Montenegro, and Macedonia. While that is definitely true, none of those countries have any ecnomic vitality to speak of, and Kosovo's borders are the longest and most connected with Serbia's. Moreover, Montenegro is heavily awash in corruption and organized cartels. Therefore, a Kosovo seceding without the diplomatic aggreements from Belgrade will isolate its borders and block much-needed economic trade in the short-run.

svm

pre 17 godina

i agree with the last thing that has been said, sooner or later kosovo will have to make arrangements with serbia.

and let's assume america will be the first and most committed country to grant recognition, considering how economically "unimportant" kosovo is, it would be quite risky to rely on something as short-lived as support from the USA (be it economy or security-related...)

vbo

pre 17 godina

UN is USA service anyway and when it from time to time fails to give instant support to USA actions it is simply ignored.

We all know what real independence means. Kosovo is not independent by any means. Independence with (NATO) foreign forces to protect it and EU and USA to pay for your debts and salaries and pensions, health and practically everything... where the heck you see STATE there? It is occupied Serbian territory and will continue to be just that for decades...Serbian government should simply declare it occupied...

I can't help but think that this is all payback for war in Bosnia. Let's face it, that's what this is ALL about.
But it’s not going to work in a long run.
It’s either going to be redefinition of Balkan borders generally or new wars at first chance…
I am thinking two generations' time, and am not sure either NATO or EU would be willing to pay the bill for pressure-keeping occupation troops for so long.
Don’t you worry about foreign “investments” in Serbia. It would be enough if we Serbs living abroad just send a few more dollars to our relatives to compensate the miserable “foreign investment” carrot. Looks like Kosovo is “flourishing” lately with all “investments” in to the drugs and human trafficking.

Hermon

pre 17 godina

Blag,
What I like about you (serbs) is that no matter how deep is the "mut" you are in, you still think big about your self. I agree that helps with your self motivation but it wont help Serbia keeping Kosovo.

blag

pre 17 godina

whether kosovo is lost or not remains to be seen into the future. i would adjust my calendar a bit wider before answering.

there are still a number of factors at play.

first is the matter of recognition. serbia will never recognize and this carries significant consequence.

second, is partition. and it remains very possible.

the third is economic failure. i am convinced that this province will not economically succeed, particularly considering the legal challenges; the debt levels; the likely economic blockade.

at the end of the day kosovo needs an accomodating serbia and not an accomodating washington dc. it has to live with serbia at its borders and its PM has to visit BG to negotiate that existence (hard for him to do bc he'd be arrested).

one can only live on status for so long. sooner or later reality dawns.

Aleksandër Gjoni

pre 17 godina

I wouldn't like to be in President Tadic's shoes. He is in vein trying to buy time and convince hard core nationalists (SRS and DSS), who actually won the elections, that the only way out is - Kosovo out of Serbia. President Ahtisaari's plan may be only subject to minor cosmetic corrections and polishing. Nothing substantial shall not change. I'm deeply convinced that DS and the people who voted for them recognize the reality and the fact that Serbian politics during 90's just paved the way to an independent state of Kosovo. UNSC Resolution 1244 temporarily suspended the exercise of sovereignty of Serbia over Kosovo, and the new Resolution superseding it, shall revoke the sovereignty forever. Bering in mind the international presence post UNMIK, one can hardly say that all sovereign powers of a state will be vested in Kosovo institutions with an immediate affect, however, Kosovo is lost for Serbia, as simply as that. It is true that the international law principles cater for recognition of current state borders and the sovereignty of states in general, however, if a state terrorizes its own citizens, such citizens can not be left unprotected by the civilized international community. The lawyers in this forum understand the concept of "humanitarian intervention". The only way to achieving it is the right of self-determination for Kosovars. It’s coming, like it or not :)

????

pre 17 godina

Nothing will happen in these negotiations since Serbia will continue to be deconstructive and signalize that they only want Kosovo and not the people living in Kosovo. The world does not want another ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo and therefore will they give Kosovo independence.

Those delays and the fact that ultranationalists won the elections are affecting the Serbian economy very negatively. Some months ago I could almost very day about a foreign company investing in Serbia, now after the elections and the rise of nationalism they are scared and are not choosing Serbia. Good luck and try to eat "Kosovo is Serbia". The aggressivity of Kostunica is destroying Serbia itself and not the neighbours.

dingdong

pre 17 godina

Aleksandër, i also read that Guardian commentary about the UN charter on the "responsibility to protect".

If that was to be implemented properly, then the United Nations and the provisional (ethnic Albanian) government in Pristina has also lost sovereignty over Kosovo. Just look at their appalling track record since the start of the NATO intervention. According to the UN itself, 220,000 Serb refugees have since been ethnically cleasned, and remain so, unlike ethnic Albanians.

adi

pre 17 godina

I am not to decide about whether to shift the Vienna meeting for one week or not, but as a kosovar, I agree with the decision. I think Ahtissari should understand that our neighbors have difficulties to understand the reality. They have been educated for decades that Kosova is their land, the heart where the Serb history has begun. In the same way they pretended for Krajina, in Croatia. I am sure that the time has arrived for our neighbors to see the reality and learn the history properly. It would be great if one week will help them.

“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”

Cheers,

????

pre 17 godina

Nothing will happen in these negotiations since Serbia will continue to be deconstructive and signalize that they only want Kosovo and not the people living in Kosovo. The world does not want another ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo and therefore will they give Kosovo independence.

Those delays and the fact that ultranationalists won the elections are affecting the Serbian economy very negatively. Some months ago I could almost very day about a foreign company investing in Serbia, now after the elections and the rise of nationalism they are scared and are not choosing Serbia. Good luck and try to eat "Kosovo is Serbia". The aggressivity of Kostunica is destroying Serbia itself and not the neighbours.

Aleksandër Gjoni

pre 17 godina

I wouldn't like to be in President Tadic's shoes. He is in vein trying to buy time and convince hard core nationalists (SRS and DSS), who actually won the elections, that the only way out is - Kosovo out of Serbia. President Ahtisaari's plan may be only subject to minor cosmetic corrections and polishing. Nothing substantial shall not change. I'm deeply convinced that DS and the people who voted for them recognize the reality and the fact that Serbian politics during 90's just paved the way to an independent state of Kosovo. UNSC Resolution 1244 temporarily suspended the exercise of sovereignty of Serbia over Kosovo, and the new Resolution superseding it, shall revoke the sovereignty forever. Bering in mind the international presence post UNMIK, one can hardly say that all sovereign powers of a state will be vested in Kosovo institutions with an immediate affect, however, Kosovo is lost for Serbia, as simply as that. It is true that the international law principles cater for recognition of current state borders and the sovereignty of states in general, however, if a state terrorizes its own citizens, such citizens can not be left unprotected by the civilized international community. The lawyers in this forum understand the concept of "humanitarian intervention". The only way to achieving it is the right of self-determination for Kosovars. It’s coming, like it or not :)

adi

pre 17 godina

I am not to decide about whether to shift the Vienna meeting for one week or not, but as a kosovar, I agree with the decision. I think Ahtissari should understand that our neighbors have difficulties to understand the reality. They have been educated for decades that Kosova is their land, the heart where the Serb history has begun. In the same way they pretended for Krajina, in Croatia. I am sure that the time has arrived for our neighbors to see the reality and learn the history properly. It would be great if one week will help them.

“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”

Cheers,

dingdong

pre 17 godina

Aleksandër, i also read that Guardian commentary about the UN charter on the "responsibility to protect".

If that was to be implemented properly, then the United Nations and the provisional (ethnic Albanian) government in Pristina has also lost sovereignty over Kosovo. Just look at their appalling track record since the start of the NATO intervention. According to the UN itself, 220,000 Serb refugees have since been ethnically cleasned, and remain so, unlike ethnic Albanians.

blag

pre 17 godina

whether kosovo is lost or not remains to be seen into the future. i would adjust my calendar a bit wider before answering.

there are still a number of factors at play.

first is the matter of recognition. serbia will never recognize and this carries significant consequence.

second, is partition. and it remains very possible.

the third is economic failure. i am convinced that this province will not economically succeed, particularly considering the legal challenges; the debt levels; the likely economic blockade.

at the end of the day kosovo needs an accomodating serbia and not an accomodating washington dc. it has to live with serbia at its borders and its PM has to visit BG to negotiate that existence (hard for him to do bc he'd be arrested).

one can only live on status for so long. sooner or later reality dawns.

svm

pre 17 godina

i agree with the last thing that has been said, sooner or later kosovo will have to make arrangements with serbia.

and let's assume america will be the first and most committed country to grant recognition, considering how economically "unimportant" kosovo is, it would be quite risky to rely on something as short-lived as support from the USA (be it economy or security-related...)

vbo

pre 17 godina

UN is USA service anyway and when it from time to time fails to give instant support to USA actions it is simply ignored.

We all know what real independence means. Kosovo is not independent by any means. Independence with (NATO) foreign forces to protect it and EU and USA to pay for your debts and salaries and pensions, health and practically everything... where the heck you see STATE there? It is occupied Serbian territory and will continue to be just that for decades...Serbian government should simply declare it occupied...

I can't help but think that this is all payback for war in Bosnia. Let's face it, that's what this is ALL about.
But it’s not going to work in a long run.
It’s either going to be redefinition of Balkan borders generally or new wars at first chance…
I am thinking two generations' time, and am not sure either NATO or EU would be willing to pay the bill for pressure-keeping occupation troops for so long.
Don’t you worry about foreign “investments” in Serbia. It would be enough if we Serbs living abroad just send a few more dollars to our relatives to compensate the miserable “foreign investment” carrot. Looks like Kosovo is “flourishing” lately with all “investments” in to the drugs and human trafficking.

Hermon

pre 17 godina

Blag,
What I like about you (serbs) is that no matter how deep is the "mut" you are in, you still think big about your self. I agree that helps with your self motivation but it wont help Serbia keeping Kosovo.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Glad to see that Blag has decided to join us again. Dissapointed to see that his delusions continue though. Kosovo will leave Serbia in the dust once independence is officially granted. It has the youngest population in Europe, and the most prosperous diaspora in the world, who pump billions into its economy, and will continue to do so even more. The average Kosovar in NYC owns 2 restaurants and a pizza parlor, while the average Serb washes his car. And Kosovo does not need landlocked tiny Serbia one bit, for it has Macedonia, Albania, and Montenegro, not to mention Turkey and Bulgaria further down the road, all ready to trade to the fullest. Keep on thinking up new theories, because the old ones you have had so far are getting really really old. And last but not least, on the Serbian recognition issue....if someone sues me and wins my car in the lawsuit, it doesn't matter if I recognize the ruling or not, my car is still gonne.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Blag has a great point. Kosovo must live with an accomodating Serbia as that will be its biggest trading partner. Many posters here have brushed away whatever Serbia thinks, claiming it can trade with Albania, Montenegro, and Macedonia. While that is definitely true, none of those countries have any ecnomic vitality to speak of, and Kosovo's borders are the longest and most connected with Serbia's. Moreover, Montenegro is heavily awash in corruption and organized cartels. Therefore, a Kosovo seceding without the diplomatic aggreements from Belgrade will isolate its borders and block much-needed economic trade in the short-run.

Shukri Gashi

pre 17 godina

Blag, don't worry about us and our economy. We are trained to survive, don't forget we survived Miloshevic and its paramilitary machinery, so it will not be so difficult for us to build our life in our state. And by the way, why you are so concerned about how Kosova will live? Why you don't see for example Mascedonia and make any view on their economy, because we (Kosova) are not the only neighbor of Serbia?
Please Blag unload yourself from this disturbance?
We have to take care of our economy not you.
Stop interfere in others job!

wat

pre 17 godina

Kosovo simply cannot function without Serbia’s
acceptance of the final solution. The only railroad and the only two road
links between Kosovo and the heart of Europe go across Serbia. All other
alternative transit routes, through Montenegro, Albania, or Macedonia, are
taking Kosovo away from Europe, not into it

Mike

pre 17 godina

Ah good to see you back too Sidi. I was wondering what happened to you. I'm happy to see your Big Bravado is also alive and well too. Not much really else to comment on since you're going to stick you your beliefs that Albanians are the richest, smartest, sexiest, and most productive people in the world, while Serbs are God's practical joke on humanity. At the very least, I gotta admire your steadfast faith in the USA. It's a rare thing these days to find anyone so enamoured with my country's foreign policies, so I should pat you on the back for that. But even though I disagree with about 99.99% of everything you say, I'm at least happy to know you're still around to spice up the conversation.

Dragan

pre 17 godina

As for being landlocked, I suggest you look at a map, since Kosovo is landlocked. Furthermore, independence is something that you simply will not get, period. What will happen is that the status quo will remain for some time. In a few generations there will probably be another war and this time you won't have the US to help you.

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

What serbs fail to grasp is that,one way or another Kosova will become independent. Even if Russia uses its veto, albanians will decalre independence anywayy and USA, UK , other western European cuntries, Albania, Macedonia etc. will recognise it.

Kosovo will still create its on symbols, anthem, flag etc.

At least then there will be not as many conditions and other things such as 'double majority'. The biggest losers will be the kosovan serbs.


And Serbia won't be able to do anything about it.

Serbia has no sovregnity over kosovo anyway now.

The only way serbia can get kosovo again is by war and by killing the 2 million albanians living there.

Now that we have tasted freedom, and we realised the conditions we were living pre-1999, our resolve for independece is even greater than it was before 1999.

Like it or not, kosovo is practically independent, and this year it will become official.

and one more point as far as serbian refugees are concered i'll copy one of my previous posts "I think its very important to state this.

No doubt that thousands of innocent serbs moved away from kosovo.

However, all those people that are commenting here who were living in kosovo before 1999 know that the majority of Serbs male adults worked for the police and the army during the 90s. There were no other jobs.

Thousands of them were directly working for the serbian regime during the 99 war, and they were inlvolved in the massacres and crimes against albanians. A lot of serbs who did not work for the police, they joined as reservist and paramilitary forces. Thats a fact. And a lot of the massacres were commited by local serbs and police.

I lived in prishtina, a good neighbourhood in a central location. There were 5 serb fimilies and about 20 albanian in my street. The adult males in 3 of those families were working for the police before and during the war. i remeber were clearly when they used to come back from the fighting in the evenings after commiting crimes. When NATO starting bombing it was my serbian nighbours with some of their paramilitary friends, who first shot one of my albanian because he had an albanian flad in his house, and then they robbed us and tolds us that we only have 5 minutes to leave for Albania of Macedonia and never come back because as they said ' This is serbia and we don't belong here'.

The fact is that this happened all across Kosovo, and outside Prishtina it was much worse.

The reason why my serbian male neighbours left and took their families with them, is because they knew what they had done to us and they knew they would have to pay for their crimes.

I would welcome back the other two innocent serbain families, but not the males from the other three.


If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety.

The conclusion is that from 200 000 or whatever serbs that have left kosovo, thousands of them have blood in their hands and are criminals, and they do not want to come back, because people like me would be more that happy to testify in court so they can pay for their crimes.
(kreshnik sh., 1 February 2007, 17:03)

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

Kreshnik

"If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety. "

- I would suggest that if 350,000 non-Albanians (Serbs, Roma, Jews & other ethnic groups) don't feel safe to come back is entirely based on the fact that you have KLA generals as your leadership - the ones whom you know have blood on their hands. It would be like suggesting to the Jews that they would be safe to return to a post war Germany governed by Nazi generals.

Regarding Milosovic (& his regime at the time) there was no evidence of a genocide in Kosovo & Metohija - even the ICTY had dropped that charge! If as you suggest all non-Albanians were involved in a highly militarised police state then I think you might have found many more civilians killed. The facts are that at most 2100 were killed in the 96-99 period and that more were killed as a result of NATO then any Serbian atrocities. Read the following link on a letter sent in to the Scotsman paper.

http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/03/milosevic-trial-farce-scotsman-letter.html

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Sidi, you don't even live in Kosovo. I bet you own a bunch of resturants and send money to your family LOL. Now since kosovo is going to be independent as some you can leave the US and go home to Kosovo now? Or do you think those who are doing well for themselves will leave what they have built abroad and come back to Kosovo? Whoever answers yes is lying to himself. There nothing wrong with washing a car, at least he does not have to bribe someone to get a business.

Jarina

pre 17 godina

To Serbs who denies atrocities committed by Serbian machinery helped by Serb population in Kosova today your arrogance is a reason why Albanians even if they want to forgive you they cant!

I come here and try to build bridges for the better future with Serbian youth, I’m desperate to find the hate, threatens, madness, Serb who support criminals, people who change and deform history and non single comprehension of any kind.

Those Serb who committed crimes in Kosova one day will face Justice is normal NO?

List of 6200 Serbs who committed atrocities in Kosova is already made by Kosova Human Rights Council and list is growing every single day, our biggest surprise it was when we find that the most Serb in this list they are refugees in western countries.

Switzerland already identified 300 suspects, CH authorities signed with Çeku a return deal in Kosova after status for all Suspected Serbs, Uk authorities are working in this issue.

To Albanians just ignore some Serbian Comments they are blinded with hate, don’t bother for what they say you can give your opinion try to find those from LDP to change your views.

Some Serbian comments clearly support Serbian crimes In Kosova including: killings, beatings, torture, sexual assault, separation and disappearances, shootings, looting and destruction of property, and violations of medical neutrality only because those who committed are Serbs, you cant find any kind of sympathy for Albanian victims in they comments.

We Albanians can’t change something if Serbs doesn’t want to be changed still they heroes are Mladic, Karadzic, Milosevic, Arkan etc last election proved that.

Today we Albanians are in position to give the rights to our minorities and we should be open minded, generous and make them feel free and protected by any kind of discrimination.

????

pre 17 godina

Nothing will happen in these negotiations since Serbia will continue to be deconstructive and signalize that they only want Kosovo and not the people living in Kosovo. The world does not want another ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo and therefore will they give Kosovo independence.

Those delays and the fact that ultranationalists won the elections are affecting the Serbian economy very negatively. Some months ago I could almost very day about a foreign company investing in Serbia, now after the elections and the rise of nationalism they are scared and are not choosing Serbia. Good luck and try to eat "Kosovo is Serbia". The aggressivity of Kostunica is destroying Serbia itself and not the neighbours.

Aleksandër Gjoni

pre 17 godina

I wouldn't like to be in President Tadic's shoes. He is in vein trying to buy time and convince hard core nationalists (SRS and DSS), who actually won the elections, that the only way out is - Kosovo out of Serbia. President Ahtisaari's plan may be only subject to minor cosmetic corrections and polishing. Nothing substantial shall not change. I'm deeply convinced that DS and the people who voted for them recognize the reality and the fact that Serbian politics during 90's just paved the way to an independent state of Kosovo. UNSC Resolution 1244 temporarily suspended the exercise of sovereignty of Serbia over Kosovo, and the new Resolution superseding it, shall revoke the sovereignty forever. Bering in mind the international presence post UNMIK, one can hardly say that all sovereign powers of a state will be vested in Kosovo institutions with an immediate affect, however, Kosovo is lost for Serbia, as simply as that. It is true that the international law principles cater for recognition of current state borders and the sovereignty of states in general, however, if a state terrorizes its own citizens, such citizens can not be left unprotected by the civilized international community. The lawyers in this forum understand the concept of "humanitarian intervention". The only way to achieving it is the right of self-determination for Kosovars. It’s coming, like it or not :)

adi

pre 17 godina

I am not to decide about whether to shift the Vienna meeting for one week or not, but as a kosovar, I agree with the decision. I think Ahtissari should understand that our neighbors have difficulties to understand the reality. They have been educated for decades that Kosova is their land, the heart where the Serb history has begun. In the same way they pretended for Krajina, in Croatia. I am sure that the time has arrived for our neighbors to see the reality and learn the history properly. It would be great if one week will help them.

“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”

Cheers,

dingdong

pre 17 godina

Aleksandër, i also read that Guardian commentary about the UN charter on the "responsibility to protect".

If that was to be implemented properly, then the United Nations and the provisional (ethnic Albanian) government in Pristina has also lost sovereignty over Kosovo. Just look at their appalling track record since the start of the NATO intervention. According to the UN itself, 220,000 Serb refugees have since been ethnically cleasned, and remain so, unlike ethnic Albanians.

blag

pre 17 godina

whether kosovo is lost or not remains to be seen into the future. i would adjust my calendar a bit wider before answering.

there are still a number of factors at play.

first is the matter of recognition. serbia will never recognize and this carries significant consequence.

second, is partition. and it remains very possible.

the third is economic failure. i am convinced that this province will not economically succeed, particularly considering the legal challenges; the debt levels; the likely economic blockade.

at the end of the day kosovo needs an accomodating serbia and not an accomodating washington dc. it has to live with serbia at its borders and its PM has to visit BG to negotiate that existence (hard for him to do bc he'd be arrested).

one can only live on status for so long. sooner or later reality dawns.

svm

pre 17 godina

i agree with the last thing that has been said, sooner or later kosovo will have to make arrangements with serbia.

and let's assume america will be the first and most committed country to grant recognition, considering how economically "unimportant" kosovo is, it would be quite risky to rely on something as short-lived as support from the USA (be it economy or security-related...)

vbo

pre 17 godina

UN is USA service anyway and when it from time to time fails to give instant support to USA actions it is simply ignored.

We all know what real independence means. Kosovo is not independent by any means. Independence with (NATO) foreign forces to protect it and EU and USA to pay for your debts and salaries and pensions, health and practically everything... where the heck you see STATE there? It is occupied Serbian territory and will continue to be just that for decades...Serbian government should simply declare it occupied...

I can't help but think that this is all payback for war in Bosnia. Let's face it, that's what this is ALL about.
But it’s not going to work in a long run.
It’s either going to be redefinition of Balkan borders generally or new wars at first chance…
I am thinking two generations' time, and am not sure either NATO or EU would be willing to pay the bill for pressure-keeping occupation troops for so long.
Don’t you worry about foreign “investments” in Serbia. It would be enough if we Serbs living abroad just send a few more dollars to our relatives to compensate the miserable “foreign investment” carrot. Looks like Kosovo is “flourishing” lately with all “investments” in to the drugs and human trafficking.

Hermon

pre 17 godina

Blag,
What I like about you (serbs) is that no matter how deep is the "mut" you are in, you still think big about your self. I agree that helps with your self motivation but it wont help Serbia keeping Kosovo.

Sidi

pre 17 godina

Glad to see that Blag has decided to join us again. Dissapointed to see that his delusions continue though. Kosovo will leave Serbia in the dust once independence is officially granted. It has the youngest population in Europe, and the most prosperous diaspora in the world, who pump billions into its economy, and will continue to do so even more. The average Kosovar in NYC owns 2 restaurants and a pizza parlor, while the average Serb washes his car. And Kosovo does not need landlocked tiny Serbia one bit, for it has Macedonia, Albania, and Montenegro, not to mention Turkey and Bulgaria further down the road, all ready to trade to the fullest. Keep on thinking up new theories, because the old ones you have had so far are getting really really old. And last but not least, on the Serbian recognition issue....if someone sues me and wins my car in the lawsuit, it doesn't matter if I recognize the ruling or not, my car is still gonne.

Mike

pre 17 godina

Blag has a great point. Kosovo must live with an accomodating Serbia as that will be its biggest trading partner. Many posters here have brushed away whatever Serbia thinks, claiming it can trade with Albania, Montenegro, and Macedonia. While that is definitely true, none of those countries have any ecnomic vitality to speak of, and Kosovo's borders are the longest and most connected with Serbia's. Moreover, Montenegro is heavily awash in corruption and organized cartels. Therefore, a Kosovo seceding without the diplomatic aggreements from Belgrade will isolate its borders and block much-needed economic trade in the short-run.

Shukri Gashi

pre 17 godina

Blag, don't worry about us and our economy. We are trained to survive, don't forget we survived Miloshevic and its paramilitary machinery, so it will not be so difficult for us to build our life in our state. And by the way, why you are so concerned about how Kosova will live? Why you don't see for example Mascedonia and make any view on their economy, because we (Kosova) are not the only neighbor of Serbia?
Please Blag unload yourself from this disturbance?
We have to take care of our economy not you.
Stop interfere in others job!

wat

pre 17 godina

Kosovo simply cannot function without Serbia’s
acceptance of the final solution. The only railroad and the only two road
links between Kosovo and the heart of Europe go across Serbia. All other
alternative transit routes, through Montenegro, Albania, or Macedonia, are
taking Kosovo away from Europe, not into it

Mike

pre 17 godina

Ah good to see you back too Sidi. I was wondering what happened to you. I'm happy to see your Big Bravado is also alive and well too. Not much really else to comment on since you're going to stick you your beliefs that Albanians are the richest, smartest, sexiest, and most productive people in the world, while Serbs are God's practical joke on humanity. At the very least, I gotta admire your steadfast faith in the USA. It's a rare thing these days to find anyone so enamoured with my country's foreign policies, so I should pat you on the back for that. But even though I disagree with about 99.99% of everything you say, I'm at least happy to know you're still around to spice up the conversation.

Dragan

pre 17 godina

As for being landlocked, I suggest you look at a map, since Kosovo is landlocked. Furthermore, independence is something that you simply will not get, period. What will happen is that the status quo will remain for some time. In a few generations there will probably be another war and this time you won't have the US to help you.

kreshnik sh.

pre 17 godina

What serbs fail to grasp is that,one way or another Kosova will become independent. Even if Russia uses its veto, albanians will decalre independence anywayy and USA, UK , other western European cuntries, Albania, Macedonia etc. will recognise it.

Kosovo will still create its on symbols, anthem, flag etc.

At least then there will be not as many conditions and other things such as 'double majority'. The biggest losers will be the kosovan serbs.


And Serbia won't be able to do anything about it.

Serbia has no sovregnity over kosovo anyway now.

The only way serbia can get kosovo again is by war and by killing the 2 million albanians living there.

Now that we have tasted freedom, and we realised the conditions we were living pre-1999, our resolve for independece is even greater than it was before 1999.

Like it or not, kosovo is practically independent, and this year it will become official.

and one more point as far as serbian refugees are concered i'll copy one of my previous posts "I think its very important to state this.

No doubt that thousands of innocent serbs moved away from kosovo.

However, all those people that are commenting here who were living in kosovo before 1999 know that the majority of Serbs male adults worked for the police and the army during the 90s. There were no other jobs.

Thousands of them were directly working for the serbian regime during the 99 war, and they were inlvolved in the massacres and crimes against albanians. A lot of serbs who did not work for the police, they joined as reservist and paramilitary forces. Thats a fact. And a lot of the massacres were commited by local serbs and police.

I lived in prishtina, a good neighbourhood in a central location. There were 5 serb fimilies and about 20 albanian in my street. The adult males in 3 of those families were working for the police before and during the war. i remeber were clearly when they used to come back from the fighting in the evenings after commiting crimes. When NATO starting bombing it was my serbian nighbours with some of their paramilitary friends, who first shot one of my albanian because he had an albanian flad in his house, and then they robbed us and tolds us that we only have 5 minutes to leave for Albania of Macedonia and never come back because as they said ' This is serbia and we don't belong here'.

The fact is that this happened all across Kosovo, and outside Prishtina it was much worse.

The reason why my serbian male neighbours left and took their families with them, is because they knew what they had done to us and they knew they would have to pay for their crimes.

I would welcome back the other two innocent serbain families, but not the males from the other three.


If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety.

The conclusion is that from 200 000 or whatever serbs that have left kosovo, thousands of them have blood in their hands and are criminals, and they do not want to come back, because people like me would be more that happy to testify in court so they can pay for their crimes.
(kreshnik sh., 1 February 2007, 17:03)

Princip, UK

pre 17 godina

Kreshnik

"If they want to come back, then they would have to face justice first, go to jail in kosovo for a long time, and then once they are released then they can live in my neighbourhood again. In any country in the world if you commit a crime you face justice, serve your time and then you are released back in socitety. "

- I would suggest that if 350,000 non-Albanians (Serbs, Roma, Jews & other ethnic groups) don't feel safe to come back is entirely based on the fact that you have KLA generals as your leadership - the ones whom you know have blood on their hands. It would be like suggesting to the Jews that they would be safe to return to a post war Germany governed by Nazi generals.

Regarding Milosovic (& his regime at the time) there was no evidence of a genocide in Kosovo & Metohija - even the ICTY had dropped that charge! If as you suggest all non-Albanians were involved in a highly militarised police state then I think you might have found many more civilians killed. The facts are that at most 2100 were killed in the 96-99 period and that more were killed as a result of NATO then any Serbian atrocities. Read the following link on a letter sent in to the Scotsman paper.

http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/03/milosevic-trial-farce-scotsman-letter.html

J.Ham

pre 17 godina

Sidi, you don't even live in Kosovo. I bet you own a bunch of resturants and send money to your family LOL. Now since kosovo is going to be independent as some you can leave the US and go home to Kosovo now? Or do you think those who are doing well for themselves will leave what they have built abroad and come back to Kosovo? Whoever answers yes is lying to himself. There nothing wrong with washing a car, at least he does not have to bribe someone to get a business.

Jarina

pre 17 godina

To Serbs who denies atrocities committed by Serbian machinery helped by Serb population in Kosova today your arrogance is a reason why Albanians even if they want to forgive you they cant!

I come here and try to build bridges for the better future with Serbian youth, I’m desperate to find the hate, threatens, madness, Serb who support criminals, people who change and deform history and non single comprehension of any kind.

Those Serb who committed crimes in Kosova one day will face Justice is normal NO?

List of 6200 Serbs who committed atrocities in Kosova is already made by Kosova Human Rights Council and list is growing every single day, our biggest surprise it was when we find that the most Serb in this list they are refugees in western countries.

Switzerland already identified 300 suspects, CH authorities signed with Çeku a return deal in Kosova after status for all Suspected Serbs, Uk authorities are working in this issue.

To Albanians just ignore some Serbian Comments they are blinded with hate, don’t bother for what they say you can give your opinion try to find those from LDP to change your views.

Some Serbian comments clearly support Serbian crimes In Kosova including: killings, beatings, torture, sexual assault, separation and disappearances, shootings, looting and destruction of property, and violations of medical neutrality only because those who committed are Serbs, you cant find any kind of sympathy for Albanian victims in they comments.

We Albanians can’t change something if Serbs doesn’t want to be changed still they heroes are Mladic, Karadzic, Milosevic, Arkan etc last election proved that.

Today we Albanians are in position to give the rights to our minorities and we should be open minded, generous and make them feel free and protected by any kind of discrimination.